Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Bark louder, little dog.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

This blog will pay for itself.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

I really should read my own blog.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

We still have time to mess this up!

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

The words do not have to be perfect.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Early Morning Open Thread – Thrown Under the Bus!

Early Morning Open Thread – Thrown Under the Bus!

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Because I can’t access the BJ Lexicon tonight, I’ll just share this tidbit here: According to the late local TV news, the late William Safire claimed to have introduced the terms “strawman” and “thrown under the bus“ into modern political discourse (along with his catchphrase, “nattering nabobs of negatavism”).

Of course it probably isn’t true, since Safire didn’t claim authorship when he discussed the term in his beloved column on English usage. So I’m left to wonder: why these phrases, now? Why did somebody think it would be a creative honor worth claiming?

Reader Interactions

77Comments

  1. 1.

    jamie

    I thought “nattering nabobs of negatavism” was Spiro Agnew. And the term “straw man” has been around since medieval times, it was an anglo-saxon legal concept.

  5. 5.

    freelancer

    Hi all,

    I’m back from ISU family week, and boy don’t I miss the days of shotgunning 5 Natty ice’s and then puking into the dorm sink, but goddamn is it revolting 7 years after the fact.

  6. 6.

    Anne Laurie

    I thought “nattering nabobs of negatavism” was Spiro Agnew.

    Agnew said it, but Safire wrote it. His proudest moment as a speechwriter for the Nixon White House.

  8. 8.

    wasabi gasp

    Maybe you’ve been blocked from the lexicon for immortalizing in it a particular gasping gasbag of gabgadgetry. You’re a wise woman, Annie, and should have known better.

  10. 10.

    SiubhanDuinne

    It’s almost tempting to watch Morning Joke today just to hear what Buchanan has to say about his Nixon White House colleague.

    On second thought . . . .

  11. 11.

    Xenos

    ‘Strawman’ is an old rhetorical or logical description of a type of argumentation. Someone with access to an OED will have to locate that for you.

  12. 12.

    wasabi gasp

    And, why are new reports omitting Safire’s parting lament that he will not be able to trace the origins of keep fucking that chicken?

  14. 14.

    asiangrrlMN

    @SiubhanDuinne: Hahahaha, best funny of the day thus far. There is nothing that could induce me to listen to anything that asshole has to say about anybody.

    @wasabi gasp: You, Sir, are comedic gold.

    My parting lament is that I do haz edit funkyshun, so nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah. No, wait. That’s more like my parting taunt.

  15. 15.

    Xenos

    FWIW, M-W dates it to 1886, and the American Heritage Dictionary does not give a date or any citation. So maybe this is pretty much of a modern term, although there must be an older latinate term for the concept.

  22. 22.

    Caravelle

    Say, remember that story about Oklahoma high-schoolers being completely stupid because they did badly on a citizenship test ? (badly as in, most didn’t know Washington was the first president of the US, 5% thought Obama was)
    I can’t find the post so I’ll comment here…

    FiveThirtyEight has an alternate explanation for the data.

  23. 23.

    A Mom Anon

    @calipygian:
    WTF is wrong with Dan Reihl? Seriously,the very first thing that comes into his pointed head is that the census worker was a child predator? Really?

    I think this says alot more about Dan than he realizes. What a twisted,sick fuck.

  24. 24.

    adolphus

    Since he wrote as such a language scholar and scold what has always struck me as hugely ironic is that when Safire wrote the text for the plaque on the moon for the moon landing he wrote:

    “HERE MEN FROM THE PLANET EARTH FIRST SET FOOT UPON THE MOON JULY 1969 A.D.WE CAME IN PEACE FOR ALL MANKIND”

    What’s ironic about that is that he is the only human to have written something that has a legitimate shot at being truly immortal and he committed a grammatical error. The A.D. is supposed to go BEFORE the year.

    I may not care, you may not, the aliens who see it a kajillion years from now may not know or care, but he did and I bet it ate at him until the end.

  25. 25.

    Susan

    I seriously doubt he introduced strawman. That’s an English Literature term I learned in school years ago. And I mean years ago. I don’t think it would have gotten into English books and the lexicon so fast if Mr. Safire had given us that term back in the 70’s, which was when I was in school.

  26. 26.

    RedKitten

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Would someone please throw me under a bus? Then maybe I can get some REAL fucking sleep.

    I hear you, sister…Sam’s lucky he’s cute, ’cause I normally wouldn’t put up with anybody waking me up every 2 hours at night.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @adolphus 7:10 am: what I find even more curious is that he didn’t use the CE designation instead of AD. While it may not have been quite as widespread then as it is now, in 1969 it had been in use for a good century among academics, and a universal event such as the moon landing (“Planet Earth” “All Mankind”) surely deserved the not-explicitly-Christian system of designating dates.

    Safire, as an expert on usage and word origins, would have known this. I’m surprised to see A.D. at all in the plaque language given how parochial it seems, especially in the context.

  29. 29.

    R-Jud

    @RedKitten:

    Nature makes them cute to stop you from killing them. My mother told me this time and again growing up, and now I realize it is true.

    Signed,

    Mother of a teething infant

  30. 30.

    adolphus

    @SiubhanDuinne 7:49

    My understanding is that was a deliberate decision to put God and religion into the plaque to distinguish the US from the godless commies and the godless DFH’s.

  31. 31.

    canuckistani

    the late William Safire claimed to have introduced the terms “strawman” and “thrown under the bus“

    Personally, I believe that really is the greatest thing he did with his life. And therein lies the tragedy.

  32. 32.

    mrak

    According to the preliminary NYT report on his death, Safire analyzed the history of “strawman” and “under the bus” in his column. He didn’t take credit for coining them.

    Your local news got it wrong. If they’re anything like our local news, it’s OK. That’s their job.

  33. 33.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @adolphus 7:59 am

    I expect you’re right. Sigh. I was very much around in those days but it’s easy to forget just how insidiously and thoroughly the Cold War affected the entire culture. I lived in NYC at the time and remember demonstrations because the Bolshoi Ballet (or maybe the Kirov?) was coming to the USA on a cultural exchange program. (“Take your Rooskie hands off of my Tchaikovsky ballets!”)

  37. 37.

    Roger Moore

    Thrown under the bus– abandoned for reasons of expediency, usually to being roasted by the media. Being thrown under the bus is reserved for people who were on the bus- i.e. closely allied to the thrower- to start with. Similar to the older saying “thrown to the wolves”. See also “slap in the face”.

  38. 38.

    Brick Oven Bill

    After a long day of snowshoeing and wolf-watching, who would not look forward to steeping their teabag with April of the North Woods?

    Interesting note: in areas of large scale forced integration of populations granted birthright legal benefits by the federal government, the same legal benefits which are denied to the indigenous population because of their race, the numbers of Glenn Beck 912ers is high. There are over 1000 in a single group in Cincinnati.

    In contrast, there are zero 912ers in Fargo, North Dakota and twenty seven in Minneapolis. In North Florida, there are around five hundred. Here is Amanda.

    “And so iron will be mingled with silver, and brass with gold, and hence there will arise dissimilarity and inequality and irregularity, which always and in all places are causes of hatred and war.”
    –Socrates

    This is why Ted Kennedy housed his family in a compound on six acres of Cape Cod waterfront. He desired similarity, equality, and regularity for his children. Concord for the Kennedys, Discord for the Clintons.

    It didn’t work out too well though for Ted’s legacy. Pat smashed his Ford Mustang while drunk into the Capitol, telling the police that he was showing up for a vote. He was, of course, ushered away by senior members of the Capitol Police, not given a breathalyzer, and not charged, to avoid Discord for the Kennedys.

    In contrast, Bill Clinton has the $100 million Uranium deal in Russia, and with one call, could have the ‘action flick chick’ to the left on his private plane. Bill would not be caught dead in a Ford Mustang.

    This is yet another example of the difference between Artificial Law, and Natural Law. This can also be categorized under the effects of excessive nurture. A little Discord now and then is a healthy thing for individuals, and for Nations.

  40. 40.

    Ash Can

    @calipygian: Seriously, doesn’t this open him up to a libel charge? I know we’ve discussed in this forum how difficult it is to bring defamation charges and make them stick, but William Starkman wasn’t a politician. I can’t imagine his next of kin will be in any way accepting of this.

  44. 44.

    dr. luba

    @calipygian: There’s an awful lot of information on the Internet suggesting that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl back in the 1990s. I’m not suggesting that Dan Riehl was involved in this horrible crime but I can’t understand why he hasn’t denied it. It certainly raises suspicions.

    (Best comment on Riehl’s site. The man is despicable.)

  45. 45.

    Jay Schiavone

    …he committed a grammatical error.
    Not to natter, but it appears, rather, that he committed a stylistic error.
    Also, I believe Safire took credit for the phrase Smoke and Mirrors, which he introduced as Blue Smoke and Mirrors.

  46. 46.

    bob h

    The sad fact is that Safire, like William Kristol, misspent his intelligence and ability on causes that damaged our nation.

  48. 48.

    null pointer exception

    @calipygian: I am going to go ahead and speculate that Riehl is in fact a pedophile. And I am going to do that right on the sidewiki of his blog.

  50. 50.

    eastriver

    Your local news station misread the original release regarding Safire’s death. It said that Safire explained the derivation and etymology of such phrases as “strawman”. Someone wasn’t, ironically, reading for comprehension.

  52. 52.

    Shell

    ‘Thrown under the bus.” He must be pleased he coined a phrase that’s 30% of the dialogue on ‘Top Chef.”

  53. 53.

    Punchy

    No idea who William Safire is, and dont really care. My Bears, Hawkeyes, and Jayhawks won. With 106 yards recieving tonite, Steve Smith wins me another fantasy week. Life is good.

  54. 54.

    Steeplejack

    Copyeditor pro tip: It should be “straw man,” not “strawman,” and I hope it goes into the Juice lexicon that way.

  56. 56.

    Xenos

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Here is Amanda.

    In the old days the Birchers would look for Reds under the beds. Now they look up into the trees for liberals, who they understand to resemble sloths.

  57. 57.

    Steeplejack

    Personally, I doubt whether Safire claimed to have invented those phrases, or even to have popularized them. His politics aside, he was a scrupulous and interesting etymologist. I always enjoyed reading his “On Language” column.

    As for “straw man,” the Wikipedia entry has an apocryphal story that “originated with men who stood outside of courthouses with a straw in their shoe in order to indicate their willingness to be a false witness.” That sounds a little farfetched to me. It seems more likely that it comes from straw figures created and then “killed” in various folk festivals.

    Which I had access to the OED on line. That almost always includes a citation of the earliest known use of the word or phrase.

  60. 60.

    Steeplejack

    @eastriver:

    I can’t tell if you’re going for humor or crabby in your comment.

    Anyway, if I could afford it, I would cheerfully pay for the on-line subscription. Used to own the print edition of the OED, but it was lost in the terrible fire of ’02.

  62. 62.

    qingl78

    the local tv station probably read the obit from the new york times where they said that in his column On Language, he explored where the phrases “strawman” and “thrown under the bus” came from but transcribed it as he invented the phrases.

  63. 63.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @R-Jud:

    Nature makes them cute to stop you from killing them. My mother told me this time and again growing up, and now I realize it is true.

    When my kids were that age, I used to say that the reason why small children take naps is that in the prior evolutionary history of our species the children that didn’t take naps were left out alone on a hillside for the wolves to eat.

  64. 64.

    Brachiator

    Lucy in the Sky, rest in peace

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216660/Lucy-In-The-Sky-With-Diamonds-Lucy-ODonnell-inspiration-dies-battling-disease.html

    The woman who inspired the classic Beatles song Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, has died aged 46, a charity said today.

    The song featured on the ground-breaking 1967 album Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.
    …
    John Lennon’s elder son Julian said it was inspired by a picture he drew of his classmate Lucy O’Donnell when they were at a nursery school in Weybridge, Surrey, in 1966.
    …
    Julian said he took the picture home and showed it to his father, explaining: ‘It’s Lucy in the sky with diamonds.’
    …
    The former classmates resumed their friendship in recent months when Lennon heard that Lucy, who was married to Ross Vodden and lived in Surbiton, Surrey, had become ill with lupus.

  65. 65.

    SGEW

    Interestingly, my OED does not have an entry for “strawman” “straw-man,” or “straw man.” “Strawless,” then straight to “strawnge” (obs.). So no help there.

  67. 67.

    R-Jud

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    When my kids were that age, I used to say that the reason why small children take naps is that in the prior evolutionary history of our species the children that didn’t take naps were left out alone on a hillside for the wolves to eat.

    Hang on, I’ve almost got that copied down: “for the… wolves… to… eat.” Super. Cheers. That’ll come in handy when she can understand what I’m saying to her beyond “Milk?” “Ow!” and “Cat!”

  68. 68.

    burnspbesq

    @ed:

    The Washington Post Co. also owns Kaplan, the test prep and educational services business. Kaplan is the only part of the company that is consistently profitable, thereby making WaPo and Newsweek possible. If I were a shareholder, I’d be pissed about management throwing good money down the sewer.

  69. 69.

    Brachiator

    @Steeplejack:

    Personally, I doubt whether Safire claimed to have invented those phrases, or even to have popularized them.

    Makes sense. One thing that is clear from the Wiki and other references is that the concept of a straw man has been around for a long time, and has been referred to in legal texts.

    answers.com notes:

    http://www.answers.com/topic/straw-man

    The term is also sometimes referred to in commercial and property contexts when a transfer is made to a third party, the straw man [person], simply for the purpose of retransfering to the transferor in order to accomplish some purpose not otherwise permitted. Thus, if a covenant running with the land must be included in the deed in the jurisdiction, such a covenant can be established subsequently by conveying the property to a straw man [person] and obtaining from this person a new grant with the desired convenant now in the deed.

    The origins of the term are unclear; one common (folk) etymology given is that it originated with men who stood outside of courthouses with a straw in their shoe in order to indicate their willingness to be a false witness. Another is that a man made of straw, such as those used in military training, is easy to attack. Attacking a straw man can give the illusion of a strong attack or good argument. In the UK, it is sometimes called Aunt Sally, with reference to a traditional fairground game.

    And for “Aunt Sally,”

    http://www.answers.com/topic/aunt-sally

    Aunt Sally is a traditional throwing game. The term is often used metaphorically to mean something that is a target for criticism. In particular, referring to the fairground origins, an Aunt Sally would be “set up” deliberately to be subsequently “knocked down”, usually by the same person who set the person up.

    And, as for “throw under the bus,” Wiki has this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_under_the_bus

    In Septuagenarian Stew (The Life of a Bum), published in 1990, the Charles Bukowski character Harry pushed his friend Monk in front of a bus, and then stole Monk’s wallet while Monk lay unconscious and probably dying in the street. After taking the wallet, Harry went directly to a bar and, using Monk’s money, bought himself two double whiskeys. Later, Harry went to the Groton Steak House and, again using Monk’s money, bought two beers and two Porterhouse steaks with fries (“go easy on the grease”).
    …
    Another early use is attributed by the Double-Tongued Dictionaryto a 1991 article in the Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph.

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    @SGEW:

    Interestingly, my OED does not have an entry for “strawman” “straw-man,” or “straw man.” “Strawless,” then straight to “strawnge” (obs.). So no help there.

    There is a reference to “man of straw” going back to 1898.

    http://www.bartleby.com/81/10919.html

    E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.

    Man of Straw (A). A person without capital. It used to be customary for a number of worthless fellows to loiter about our law-courts to become false witness or surety for anyone who would buy their services; their badge was a straw in their shoes

    I had another comment on this, but it is oddly in moderation. This comment may be in moderation, too. The ways of WordPress are mysterious.

  71. 71.

    SGEW

    @Brachiator: I think I’ve heard that before: I vaguely remember it being mentioned in Stephenson’s The Baroque Cycle or some other historical fiction novel I’ve read . . . or possibly some other random input from who knows where. So many useless etymology facts! And only limited brain space for them all.

  73. 73.

    asiangrrlMN

    @spudgun: It is. Under Kaplan Daily:

    Kaplan Daily – The Washington Post, so named because Kaplan is the money-making arm of the Graham family business empire.

    OK. They could expand a bit on it, but it’s there.

  76. 76.

    J. A. Baker

    We should probably have a definition for the various “Derangement Syndromes” that Charles Krauthammer (directly or indirectly) loosed upon the world:

    – Bush Derangement Syndrome
    – Obama Derangement Syndrome
    – Palin Derangement Syndrome
    – [Insert controversial political figure here] Derangement Syndrome

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