There was what President Obama likes to call a teachable moment last week, when the International Olympic Committee rejected Chicago’s bid to be host of the 2016 Summer Games.
“Cheers erupted” at the headquarters of the conservative Weekly Standard, according to a blog post by a member of the magazine’s staff, with the headline “Obama loses! Obama loses!” Rush Limbaugh declared himself “gleeful.” “World Rejects Obama,” gloated the Drudge Report. And so on.
So what did we learn from this moment? For one thing, we learned that the modern conservative movement, which dominates the modern Republican Party, has the emotional maturity of a bratty 13-year-old.
But more important, the episode illustrated an essential truth about the state of American politics: at this point, the guiding principle of one of our nation’s two great political parties is spite pure and simple. If Republicans think something might be good for the president, they’re against it — whether or not it’s good for America.
You know what this means, don’t you? By the end of the day there will be 15 Reason blog posts explaining that the cheer at the loss of the Olympics bid was actually motivated by a concern for fiscal restraint and limited government, and by the end of the week one of their editors will be on blogging heads claiming it demonstrated a deep fear of government takeovers and central planning.
And in the Olympics they have a great defense; it’s a tremendous money-loser and hugely disruptive for the locals.
If you’re pro-stimulus concept, though, it does have the virtue of creating a lot of construction projects, however pointless.
Are we doing this live? Fuck it! We’ll do it live!
Good to see you back up and running, Cole. Keep attacking those fuckers at Reason. They deserve it.
G-O-P! G-O-P! Wolverines!
Obama’s biggest sin is serving while democratic.
don you kinda missed the point. the right is going “obama sux prestige lololol” rather than even attempting to make a criticism on practical grounds. cue efforts to materialize such a criticism out of thin air and retroactively assign it to their disturbing glee.
It is a global economy, right? What is good for Rio is good for Muricans. Go Rio! Go KBR Inc!
Brick Oven Bill
Krugman fails to get the point of the teachable moment. This teachable moment presents one of two scenarios.
Scenario Number One
President Obama is not very smart and played fast and loose with the prestige of the Presidency by going to an event that is not in the bag. A land developer will not submit an application unless the project is already in the bag. The idea that the President would have, on his own, and with his fragile ego to protect, pulled this stunt is difficult to believe.
Probability of Scenario Number One: 15%
Scenario Number Two
President Obama is an investment put in place to increase the rate of return of major stakeholders. Evidence supporting this scenario is the fact that Goldman’s stock price has tripled since he took office and appointed a Goldman lobbyist to the Treasury. Evidence supporting this scenario further includes the friends with speculative Chicago real estate investments. Final evidence presented here is that the President does not seem to care in the least about the military or our war efforts.
Probability of Scenario Number Two: 85%
You forgot the part about all of the other “MAINSTREAM MEDIA’ LIEbrals tut-tutting about how Krugman and the rest of the “far looney left” are worse.
Probability that BOB is either an idiot or a troll: 100%
BOB’s not making sense again. All is well.
OT: Anyone saw that horrible SNL skit with Armisen impersonating Obama? It was crappy.
That show hasn’t been funny for years.
Ah, the server is back… but so is BOB… win some, lose some
As someone who’s not a fan of the Olympics, and especially not a fan of the wasteful projects involved in having the Olympics venue move every four years, I think we got the best of both worlds: Obama was seen to stand up for Chicago (sure, he was also seen to fail at securing the Olympics – but can you imagine the froo-fraw if Chicago’s bid had failed “because” Obama hadn’t shown up?), and Chicago won’t have to spend the next six years desperately trying to locate funding for absurd and otherwise unnecessary stadium projects that would inevitably, and justly, attract criticism for their locations, their designs, and their blown construction budgets and deadlines.
But, yeah, we’re already seeing people on the right claiming that they just hate hosting the Olympics, they really weren’t cheering Obama’s failure. Which might have been believable if they hadn’t also said beforehand that Obama was “risking his credibility”, and if they had cheered Chicago’s freedom from Olympic servitude, rather than cheering Obama’s loss.
It’s also a bit frustrating that we’re hearing this story as if it were all about Obama, when in fact there were other compelling issues at hand. Brazil, representing a continent that had never hosted the Games, offered more than twice as much money to build venues as did Chicago, and Brazil’s money was guaranteed taxpayer money while Chicago’s was a promise to raise private funds. Not to mention the difficulty many foreigners have in getting visas to visit the US these days.
As August J. Pollak said:
@Brick Oven Bill:
After the Wingularity, political memes will not be mere abstractions but will manifest as rogue AIs that roam the net and post on blogs.
*Update* Wow! I has buttons! Thank you, John, webmistress, and FSM!
Meet “This is excellent news for John McCain!”, aka B.O.B.
Um.. I think it was pretty funny when they were making fun of Sarah Palin. I guess now that they are making fun of Obama it’s not? That said, I haven’t seen it but I have heard it was brutal. Obama is an adult he can handle it.
I’ve been off/lurking for a while, but I just have to say I love how you snarkily keep closing with shots about how Reason will defend whatever idiotic thing the GOP is blathering on about. It makes me feel all warm inside. (Which in MN in October is a good thing).
The Republic of Stupidity
Brick Oven Bill: Final evidence presented here is that the President does not seem to care in the least about the military or our war efforts.
Huh? How the H did he get from the Olympics to this in one comment?
The two ideas you present to “make a point”, in some way, must show SOME SEMBLANCE of relativity, in order to convincingly Make That Point…
It’s pretty much de rigeur that the US make a bid for every Olympics, summer and winter, whether it’s in the bag or not. Not getting it isn’t especially heartbreaking, since (a) winning it would have provided Mayor Daley’s friends enough graft to buy their own countries and (b) if the showstopper was our fuxx0r3ed immigration/visa policies, maybe said policies will change.
President Obama should go on TV and make a speech about how it’s bad to put a loaded gun in one’s own mouth and pull the trigger, or listen to talk radio in the car, in the garage, with the engine running. Congress should pass a resolution on the above, in the name of the late Senator Kennedy.
By the way, congrats to Brazil. Unfortunately, American citizens have to pay 2 to 3 times as much for visas as do citizens from other countries. It’s the result of that pissing match a year or so ago regarding airline pilots, I think.
@Warren Terra: I agree with you. I am also rather relieved Chicago did not get the Olympics, for many reasons, but the vitriol on the right has really torqued me off. On the other hand, it really does expose the right’s sole purpose: to root against Obama. They want him to fail. Big-time fail. Fail in everything. Fail no matter what. Unless it affects them personally, of course. Then, they are indignant that he can’t solve their problems (see, metro, DC, teabaggers for reference).
As much as I hate all the venom and idiocy from the right, the more that this kind of root-against-America ideologue is exposed, the more the 77% (non-batshitcrazies) move away from the right.
gex, my thoughts exactly. Except for the warm part. I would rather be cold.
by the end of the week one of their editors will be on blogging heads claiming it demonstrated a deep fear of government takeovers and central planning.
Partly – for some of them, by the end of the week it will have been liberals who were cheering, while they themselves had a hand over their heart and a tear in their eye as America’s prestige was raped.
We in the US aren’t mature enough to hold the Olympics.
We politicized them during the Cold War, frequently using them as a dick waggling contest.
In 1996, our domestic right wing crazies bombed an Olympic venue causing death and mayhem (a couple of deaths, over 100 injuries) – the bomber trying to make a terrist statement about the games, having been mostly a gaybar and abortion clinic bomber. Those same crazies hid and succored the actual bomber for years – and then the Bush DOJ took a sloppy fucking plea without finding out who his North Carolina accessories after the fact were. Hell, they didn’t even waterboard his ass.
In 2002, the games went off without right wing violence only because the right wing was in power. Still, their was all this twisting about corruption and people holding their hands out.
I’d have liked to have an Olympics close enough to see at some point in my life. Now, it probably won’t happen in my lifetime.
Damn! Move 2nd paragraph to bottom. Clock ran out on me. You get the idea.
Yo, Paul Krugman so shrill Peggy Noonan is fainting right now.
@Brick Oven Bill:
Neither of which, of course, offers any rational justification for rightwing cheering, which was the point of the post. But nice try at changing the subject. And at trying for the appearance of rigorous thinking, by having the numbers add up to 100.
I don’t get the level of anger directed against Reason on this blog. I don’t recall anything similar only a couple years ago, when Reason was generally (although not uniformly) anti-Bush.
The fact is that Reason is pretty intellectually honest. It was against big government when pushed by the Republicans, and now is against it when pushed by the Democrats. I agree that some of their posts (often by Nick Gillespie) appear too willing to adopt Republican talking points, but so what? The Reason web site remains a great source for what appears to me to be honest and well-written opinion pieces.
@Cain: Actually, It wasn’t funny. There hasn’t been that many funny skits on that show. It was a bad Obama impression and there was incorrect information. Maybe you should look at the skit first before making an opinion. I saw the skit.
As for the Sarah Palin skits, that’s what helped that show out of the crappy cesspool of unfunny that it has been for years.
I have seen way funnier crap about Obama than on that show.
Wanna try lobbing something else at me?
No, the current meme I’ve seen is that Obama is so full of himself and believes himself to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, that he thought all he would need to do was flash a smile and the world would fall in line, and that this rejection was proof that the world wanted to take him down a peg and humble him because of all of his apologizing for America’s behavior… or some nonsense like that. Detangling the memes can be a full time job.
Personally, as I’ve told them, if anyone is being narcissistic, it’s those who would view this decision as personal (whether a rejection of Obama or a rejection of America), when, in all likelihood, it had nothing to do with us, and everything to do with the bid Rio put in.
Thanks to all the wasteful socialist environmental regulation, you can spend a long time in the garage with the engine running without much harm (other than the continued brain damage from the radio).
A few words on how to save money by using charcoal to heat the house might accomplish your goal.
so gays can serve in the military, and we’re out of Iraq and Afghanistan, the torturers have been prosecuted ?
Chad N Freude
The Montreal Olympics in 1972 were a financial disaster for the city. The Los Angeles Olympics in 1984 were well-managed and pretty much broke even (ancillary costs are generally not counted in when people brag about its profitability). The Barcelona Olympics in 1992 transformed a decaying Detroit-like manufacturing city into the most spectacular tourist destination on the planet. So let’s generalize.
I doubt that the games would have benefited Chicago financially, and I don’t doubt that a lot of money would have been siphoned off into undeserving bank accounts, but if he had not shown up, is there any doubt that the hypocritical critics would have been screaming that his failure to go to Copenhagen was the cause of Chicago’s failure to win and diminished US prestige?
From the Reason piece:
Is it ignorance or dishonesty that makes them describe payment for a stadium roof installed five years after the Oympics, as “paying off the last of the bills” for the Olympics?
Brick Oven Bill
I will dumb this down for the one who calls himself stupidity.
Two scenarios, two scenarios only. Ineptness or investment tool.
This game however is not Highlander. There can be more than one. He could be an inept investment tool.
And if RSA wants ineptness, or those who hold on to power through wealth and birth, or a combination of both, to succeed, I disagree. I am happy that this effort failed. It was a teachable moment for America.
@Jonny Scrum-half: Reason? Honest? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
This is why all republicans excoriated Romney when he presided over the SLC Olymics.
@cleek: It was incorrect in saying that he hasn’t accomplished anything.
Obama never said that he would bring the troops home from Iraq in less than 9 months.
Congress put the cabosh on shutting down GITMO.
Health care reform isn’t finished yet.
Obama never said he would improve Afghanistan in less than 9 months
Congress is the one that has the power to overturn DADT and DOMA
@Da Bomb: I saw it. The impersonation is meh, but the skit was pretty funny. Not accurate, I guess, as he did get the stimulus through. And hell, 9 months ago, it looked like a depression was looming. Now it’s only lurking, so there’s that.
Yes, the good thing about Chicago not getting the Olympics is that there is less chance a right wing nut will blow up a bomb to show liberals how much they love America.
@cleek: That’s hilarious, because the last three Olympic games held in the U.S. (1984 Los Angeles, 1996 Atlanta, 2002 Salt Lake City) have made a profit. The google-fu is not strong with Reason.
Chad N Freude
@Ambergris: She should tell Krugman we need to look the other way and move on.
I agree with bethanyAnne,
The impression was *terrible*–so lazy and indifferent that it was almost painful. Obama has very recognizable mannerisms and a style that is simply completely different from the hyperkinetic, canadian sounding impressionist doing the impression. It would have been really, really, funny if the guy had had the slightest ability to actually mimic Obama’s trademark cool, or if he’d done a parody of the way the far right see’s Obama and had him either do it in rap or do it from a teleprompter. But, nevertheless, it was excruciatingly true and funny on that level.
@Pangloss: You make a very good point
One of my (apolitical) sisters believes Obama went because his wife asked him to. She says she “can tell” that’s what happened, because Michelle is the true Chicago native and Chicago booster, and, well, that’s how these typa things generally go.
She thinks this was a good and necessary thing for Obama to do, if that’s indeed the case, and she wants everyone to stop bugging him about it. Immediately.
If the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars run over budget….you spend what you have to spend, whether you have the money or not.
Another reason the U.S. won’t get the games any time soon is the way Bush politicized the SLC Olympics. I’m sure the IOC is terrified what a President Palin might do in 2016.
Reason is intellectually consistent only in that its cast of giggling schoolgirls likes to snark at everything without ever taking a real position on anything. John’s Reason-bashing is entirely on the mark, IMO.
@BethanyAnne: That was my point. The impression was bad. Like I stated I seen funnier crap about Obama. That just wasn’t funny.
And to also say he hasn’t done anything is disingenious. When you can complete every sentence with an obvious qualifier to discredit the point, it becomes unfunny. For example, “Close Gitmo… in one year.” “Get out of Iraq… in 18 months.” It just went on and on.
And as impressions go, Fred Armisen wasn’t even trying this time. Maybe his heart wasn’t in it because he knew it was bullshit and a crap ass skit.
BOB is either George Will or Cokie Roberts, or both, having a sexual fling and posting on blogs from bed.
I think that one of them made the same point that the US president should not attend an Olympics meeting unless they already know what the outcome will be.
Ooh. Where to start? The problem for me is that libertarianism is inherently intellectually dishonest. Reason double-downed by not acknowledging the degree to which conservatives kicked libertarians to the curb to blindly support the Bush Administration.
Yeah, as someone who doesn’t care much about them either, and actually sort of actively dislikes the organization behind them and its completely undeserved hauteur,and as a Chicagoan not thrilled about the giant clusterfuck it would likely be, I’m not disappointed.
I also wasn’t surprised. I thought Rio’s geographical argument would win in the end. On the other hand, I also experience a mild kneejerk emotional reaction that went something like this: since I already/always believed the IOC was/is composed of jagbags, I sort of didn’t appreciate the implied slight of Chicago.
How’s that for cognitive dissonance?
I actually heard this same thing on “liberal” NPR the other day on one of our locally produced shows discussing the pros and cons of the Olympics coming here. The impression I had though, from that show, was that it was loans originally taken out for the Olympics…if they used those funds for other purposes, it wouldn’t necessarily make the argument strictly false.
@Brick Oven Bill:
Hey idiot, we had an election. That’s how Obama was “put” in office. You got a problem with that, commie?
@Brick Oven Bill:
Is there some “Shit for brains” translator you run your posts through? “A teachable moment”?
What the voters were “taught”, again, is that the Republican party is the party of unhinged old white assholes.
Dig that hole deeper losers.
@DeadlyShoe I don’t miss the point at all. I’m not disagreeing that the douche brigade is going to be rationalizing this celebration of an American loss when they’re really just happy to see Obama lose at anything, no matter the repercussions to the US.
I’m just saying that, unfortunately, they have a very good rationalization to fall back on: the Olympics are a stinker, economics-wise, and can’t by any objective measurement be shown to be good for an area purely by monetary outlay. If you think the cost is worth it for ego or other ancillary purposes, fine, but they’re a net loss.
I don’t think any objective person can look at the “YEAH IN YOUR FACE [email protected]#” nonsense and not see it as the anti-Obama reaction it is, though, so I don’t see the point in sweating it.
Yes, as bjacques stated, we pretty much make a bid for every Olympics. We do not expect to win them every time either. Evidently, those not in the know of how it’s usually already in the bag for some country right after the closing ceremonies and years before the next one have not been a fan of the Olympics as long as I have been one.
Lastly, it’s maybe finally getting to bother some of those on the right about the blather of how we lost and it’s Obama’s fault. It’s only a few voices now. It would much wiser to make it a chorus if they expect any victories in the future. I will not be surprised if it does not happen.
Then you obviously aren’t familiar with the history of one, Mr. John Cole, and moreover, the history of this blog.
I would also disagree that Reason was “generally” anti-Bush.
And this is where everything else you have to say falls apart.
@flavortext: Now that I think about it, this guy at Reason is being incredibly dishonest. Who writes a column discussing the possible impact of hosting an Olympic games on an American city without even bothering to look up recent examples, and then goes on to conclude the opposite of what has been the case in recent history? Someone who is either stupid or deceitful, and I don’t think anyone at Reason is the former.
I think you either genuinely believes there’s nothing wrong with trying hard and failing, or you don’t. If you do, you don’t take the cheap shot when someone tries hard and fails. You just pass on that.
Everyone says they believe there’s nothing wrong with trying hard and failing. Either you actually practice this, or you don’t.
Conservatives don’t, apparently, despite all their blathering about the heartbreak and glory of competition, etc. We found out conservatives were just giving lip service to what they claim is some Basic Tenet. I’m not all that shocked. Another one bites the dust. Is there anything left? Tax cuts, right?
Indeed, one might go so far as to say that the good Dr. makes the best of all possible points.
@Brachiator: think that one of them made the same point that the US president should not attend an Olympics meeting unless they already know what the outcome will be.
This sounds like another Villagerism. They’re completely unconcerned with actual decisions or the work that goes into them, or policy in general. For most of them, the fix has been in for themselves their whole lives, and never had to actually do anything with a chance of real failure. So the idea that Obama would show up for something where the fix wasn’t in for him is baffling and bad form.
Well, apparently, all except for most of the Olympics held in America.
Which kinda undercuts their point, hm?
Nah, I had my morning coffee, so I’m good. I’ll try later. Yeah, I agree I should have looked at it, but I frequently see people say how x show is not funny for x years when it is against their particular candidate but then crow happily when it agains the other team. So I decided to randomly call out someone when I saw that behavior, it just happen to you this time.
OT (but Balloon Juice has been hinky lately), the most recent example of abuse of police authority.
The homeowner was armed and holding a suspect at bay when he suffered gunshot wounds to his back and arm.
The police, of course, were cleared by a review board.
I guess that the NRA and libertarians could argue that this case proves that you should buy a gun to defend your home, shoot any intruders, and only call the cops for clean-up.
Chad N Freude
@kay: If the US had won the bid, they could have financed the whole thing with tax cuts.
Count me in the Rio-was-inevitable camp. As long as it made a competent bid, it was going to win.
@Cain: Next time, try over analyzing someone else’s comment.
Can we call them traitors yet? I mean seriously, the Weekly Standard and the Fox-Limbaugh axis now cheers anything bad that happens to America if it can be somehow blamed on Obama. I truly believe that they would cheer another 9/11 if they thought it would help them politically. Mother-fucking traitors every one of them.
And you won’t see any mention of who advanced Chicago’s bid for the Olympics in the first place, either.
@Chad N Freude:
I thought Oprah might secure the transaction. Hand out one of those big novelty checks, with confetti and noisemakers, and a lot of jumping up and down. I was looking forward to seeing that. Imagine Peggy Noonan! “It’s IRREGULAR”.
She’d faint dead away.
Conservatives ruin everything, don’t you think?
Well, but President Bush did it in such a half-hearted, lame-ass way, so that was different. It’s not like he meant it. He wasn’t trying or he woulda won.
He barely chokes “Chicago” out, did you notice that? Maybe it’s hard for him to pronounce.
“Shhhikigo, whatever it says on this card…”
@JackieBinAZ: True, it is hardly ever mentioned who place the bid with Chicago in mind to begin with anyway.
I am glad you bring this up because I mentioned it yesterday. That skit was horrible not just because Arminsen is not a good impersonator but because they are criticizing him 8 months in for not doing everything he promised. Huh? *8 months in? Just stupid.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
Who knew a mediocre SNL sketch could inspire such butt-hurt?
I’m firmly in the camp that people who say “SNL hasn’t been funny for years!” have bad memories. The show has always been extremely uneven from week to week and sketch to sketch. Watch a full episode, not just the highlights, featuring the original cast or the Carvey-Hartman-Myers lineup sometime.
That being said, the Obama sketch was terrible. Not because it was unfair in some respects (it was, but so what? This is comedy. Sack up or go home.) – but because Armisen’s Obama is just teeth-grindingly awful.
The Republic of Stupidity
Brick Oven Bill
I will dumb this down for the one who calls himself stupidity.
Two scenarios, two scenarios only. Ineptness or investment tool.
Sorry, BOB, but this makes no more sense than your first comment.
You started out w/ a ginned up ‘analysis’ of what Obama’s motives ( friends with speculative Chicago real estate investments) were for making his Olympics pitch, then immediately ergo’ed into claiming this all proved ‘the President does not seem to care in the least about the military or our war efforts.‘
You EXACT words… no direct causality or obvious, MEANINGFUL link between your thoughts… and now you come back w/ a second comment that doesn’t even come close to explaining the disconnect in your first one… and somehow… claim SUCCESS!????
Another MISSION ACCOMPLISHED moment?
@Bob (Not B.o.B.):
Fixed some more.
If anything, he went to Copenhagen knowing Chicago would lose. Failing to go would have opened the door for blaming him for the failure. Moreover, it was a bit of ritual humiliation for the benefit of the world community, i.e., we’ll participate even if we know it’s not in the bag for us. It also appears to have provided cover to de-emphasize his meeting with McChrystal. The added benefit is that it was excellent bait to bring out the asshole contingent (Limbaugh, Beck) and again tether it to the Republicans. Only beltway types would look at this as some sort of loss of prestige for Obama, because, for them, everything is like showing up at the prom in the wrong dress.
I’ve actually enjoyed his impersonation a couple times. This most recent one wasn’t any good. As others have said, he didn’t appear to be even bothering, but just hamming.
The skit itself was funny in that it accomplished what, IMO, it was shooting for.
C’mon, when the red checks turned from checkmarks to “WORSE” and “HELL NO”, that wasn’t even mildly funny to those paying attention to those categories?
no, they are criticizing him for not doing anything he promised.
the only real significant win he’s had was Sotomayor, and that wasn’t a huge challenge (and he didn’t even campaign on it, so it doesn’t really even belong in this discussino). his only other big accomplishment, the stimulus, has so far been meh at best.
Personally, I kept waiting for him to whip his dick out and say, “Chill out. I got this!”
The only time I’ve ever even cracked a smile at his impersonation was in the skit where Emmanuel was daydreaming about him hulking out. I do like Armisen in other stuff, I just don’t think he’s been able to find a hook that would make his Obama schtick funny.
It was fairly well-written and it could have been really funny in the right hands, but again, the delivery just sapped all of the life out of it.
Obama promises kept: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/.
Please no more hyperbole on the lack of Obama Admin progress. As much as they still piss me off (and, oh, do they piss me off), the administration has done some decent stuff in the last 8 months. Is it everything we’d like it to be? No. And they’ve also done plenty of really stupid stuff (in my opinion) in the last 8 months as well. But they’ve done stuff. You just don’t see it on the teevee.
I don’t know why everyone is arguing with B.O.B. I think most people can agree that pie is an excellent dessert choice.
@slag: THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!!
@tripletee: I have watched full episodes. It’s pretty bad. And his impersonation just sucks.
@valdivia: You know, we are always on the same page. [email protected]slag: Thank you. It is complete hyperbole and just disingenous.
Chad N Freude
I was going to write “Rhetorical question, right?” but I started spiraling into depression at the word “Conservative” thinking about how the word has been debased. The Big Tent that they love to talk about is really a blanket to include everyone grinding any particular axe to chop away at any legitimate traditionally Conservative principle.
“You tried, and you failed. Lesson is, never try.”
– Homer Simpson
This post should also have had the tag “Assholes” since that’s undoubtedly what those apologist shills at Reason are.
Chad N Freude
1. It’s fun to take him down, although admittedly he wouldn’t recognize a take-down if it fell down right on top of him.
2. We’re pleasure-seekers, and like banging your head on the table, it feels so-o-o good when you stop.
3. We’re all masochists here.
I forgo the pie to experience the challenge of trying to decode his Symbology.
There’s also this, Politifact talked about the SNL Skit.
thanks for that. and I always feel better to know I am not the only one frustrated by the hyperbole of Obama is Teh Fail. Mostly because we are still 3 years away from being able to judge.
@Chad N Freude:
I thought we were all Mayans here.
ask 1000 Joe Publics what Obama campaigned on, and not a single one of them will mention “Sign the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities”, or “Restore funding for the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (Byrne/JAG) program”, “Establish an Energy Partnership for the Americas”, or “Remove more brush, small trees and vegetation that fuel wildfires” or a dozen others on that list.
but, he has made zero progress (and in some cases, negative progress) on many of the fundamental issues that we criticized Bush over: Iraq, Afghanistan, DADT, torture, govt surveillance, etc..
clapping loudly because he “Got his daughters a puppy” (page 3 on that list) in order to drown out those who point out that he’s failed on the big stuff is only providing cover.
but they haven’t done a single one of the things that SNL rightly criticized them over.
@valdivia: I know. And what will happen 3 years from now, when alot of things he’s campaigned are fulfilled in shape or form.
Will he get credit, or will there be something else to gripe about?
@cleek: But you could ask the same 1000 Joe Publics if they believe Obama is muslim or American and you wouldn’t get a straight answer.
But you can’t deny that all of the above mentioned stuff is in the works and there hasn’t been a promised timeline. Since we are using Politifact as a source, it even sources all of the above items you mentioned are in the works.
@Chad N Freude:
I’m calling them all “conservatives” unless and until they distance themselves from these crazy people.
Tough shit. They’re all conservatives until I hear otherwise.
I am sure someone will be complaining because he did not do it *exactly* the way the liked. I think it will be interesting in a couple of years to see how each victory which was hard fought will be evaluated. But I am sure the complainers will have something to complain about because that is what they do.
@Brachiator: Cops tend to be incompetent at best, when they’re not proving themselves to be power-drunk assholes who should never, EVER be trusted with authority. Considering what actually happened, the guy would’ve been better off just calling an ambulance for the suspect after the fact.
The Reason types aren’t far off when it comes to such issues, they’re just too spoiled to take the analysis to its logical conclusion. The line between them & anarchists boils down to “but who will protect my stuff?!?”.
I thought we were all Georgians now.
if you assume that the country is dumb, what does that say about the fact that they voted Obama into office ?
sure i can.
HCR is looking to be a mess of half-measures and sell-outs. i’ll believe we’re out of Iraq the day we’re actually out of Iraq; glossy promises to start pulling out in the future (if everything goes right!) are worthless. ditto Afghanistan.
torture, extradition, surveillance ? frankly, he’s been no better than Bush on those things. promising to close Gitmo while leaving all the other torture chambers open is a cop-out.
@cleek: Well you are the one that mentioned 1000 Joe Publics not knowing anything about what has been passed.
As for HCR, there is no final bill. So you don’t know what will be in it. You can’t assume that it will be half-assed. Unless you follow the day to day minutiae of creating a bill. If you do, then you would also know that bills evolve all of the time. So what is being reported as being in bill might not be in the final product.
As for the other issues you have mentioned, yet again these are works in progress, you don’t have to accept that as reality, if you don’t want to. That’s your choice.
Chad N Freude
@kay: I’ve been offline for a while, so you may not see this if the thread has withered, but … That was pretty much my point. Anyone with a stance against any single item on a socially responsible, positive agenda is accepted as a Conservative by all of the other Conservatives, including those who really know better. They are all Conservatives now.
I should point out that my son is 11 and thought the behavior was childish.