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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / The Lambs Were Screaming

The Lambs Were Screaming

by John Cole|  October 5, 20095:06 pm| 91 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics

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Bobby Jindal has an op-ed in the WaPo today featuring some conservative ideas on health care (I’m guessing he’s decided that print is a better medium for him). This one caught my eye:

Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.

Can you imagine the screams of fascism and nonsense that we would be subjected to if anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh proposed this? The Reason folks alone would have the vapors and publish a seven part series on faceless bureaucrats trying to tell us all how to live and plaintive wails about central planning. Glenn Beck would be weeping about taking America back from the health care czars who want to run your life, and the teabaggers would plan a Million Meatball March to protest healthy lifestyles. Sarah Palin would have a facebook post up explaining that “management of chronic diseases” is code for getting a check for shooting your sick granny like Old Yeller.

And then the best part would be on Sunday morning, when David Gregory or George Will or one of those jackasses would say “sure, the bill says nothing like that, but it is the Democrat’s fault for using ambiguous language. This really ws a bad stumble for the White House.”

BTW, for those of you curious, other than movement on pre-existing conditions and the one above, the rest of Jindal’s ideas involve tax cuts and de-regulation. I’m sure you are shocked.

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Reader Interactions

91Comments

  1. 1.

    GReynoldsCT00

    October 5, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Because I haven’t asked lately: will you marry me?

    The Old Yeller comment is priceless

  2. 2.

    Warren Terra

    October 5, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Can you imagine the screams of fascism and nonsense that we would be subjected to if anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh proposed this?

    don’t have to imagine it. To the (severely limited, and often secondhand) extent that I could bear to look, precisely this sort of issue – rewarding healthy lifestyles and therefore punishing unhealthy lifestyles, and involving government power in same – seemed to be the primary obsession of the Ur-Glibertarian herself, McMegan, all summer.

  3. 3.

    El Tiburon

    October 5, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Pure speculation on your part JC, pure speculation.

    But dang if it ain’t right on the money.

  4. 4.

    Ripley

    October 5, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Is he completely unfamiliar with health insurance?

    Don’t smoke? Pay lower premiums. In fact, I’ve enrolled in health insurance several times and been required to fill out a “lifestyle” questionnaire with questions on smoking, exercise, height/weight, etc.

    Also, “managing chronic disease”? Does he not realize that most people might require some form of health insurance to pay for ongoing treatment? Or that most people would probably choose, yes, to seek care for a chronic disease?

    What a fucking moron…

  5. 5.

    gbear

    October 5, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Million Meatball March

    I’ve never been much of a joiner, but where do I sign up for that one?

  6. 6.

    Brain Hertz

    October 5, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Actually John, you’re a bit behind the curve…

    Remember this?

    http://thestonybrookpatriot.blogspot.com/2008/07/no-love-for-trans-fat-in-cali.html

    (Random selection from several thousand returned by google)

  7. 7.

    freelancer

    October 5, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Mustn’t. bitch. about. server. argh.

  8. 8.

    Deschanel

    October 5, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    or participate in management of their chronic diseases

    Well, isn’t that the entire point of health care reform? What is he recommending, DIY surgeries on the kitchen table? Are people with chronic diseases just too lazy and unmotivated to “participate in management” of their ailments in his world?

  9. 9.

    BDeevDad

    October 5, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    What I want to know is how the fuck do I manage my daughter’s hearing loss. Most insurance won’t even cover hearing aids which dramatically improve her speech, comprehension, etc which reduces the need for other services/therapies. And that’s just one of many “chronic” issues we have to deal with.

  10. 10.

    Comrade Jake

    October 5, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Shorter Jindal: eat arugula!

  11. 11.

    smiley

    October 5, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    …other than movement on pre-existing conditions and the one above

    That’s not small movement by GOPers. It’s actually a concession that things have to change. Not enough, of course, but it’s an indication that the GOP is starting to realize that they are on the wrong side of the health-insurance reform debate.

  12. 12.

    Warren Terra

    October 5, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Mustn’t. bitch. about. server. argh.

    Why not? After all, server performance does rather seem to be meriting criticism of late …

  13. 13.

    Makewi

    October 5, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    What’s the complaint? Wrong team made the pitch?

  14. 14.

    Stefan

    October 5, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Wait, so now Jindal is for a nanny state? We can’t trust big guvmint, but we’re supposed to let it monitor and “reward” our lifestyle choices? So if we make unhealthy lifestyle choices, then the government is going to punish us? What’s next, Comrade Jindal, government death panels for the fat and flabby?

  15. 15.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    October 5, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    Damn, it was Republican Johhny Isakson that inserted the so-called death panel stuff in one of the HCR bills. Why do these Republicans hate Republicans?

  16. 16.

    Brain Hertz

    October 5, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    oh, wait, better reference:

    “Are you automatically a fascist if you care about health, nutrition, and the environment? Of course not. What is fascist is the notion that in an organic national community, the individual has no right not to be healthy; and the state therefore has the obligation to force us to be healthy for our own good. To the extent that these modern health movements seek to harness the power of the state to their agenda, they flirt with classical fascism”

    it is left as an exercise for the reader to determine which thoroughly researched scholarly work I clipped this from.

  17. 17.

    Penfold

    October 5, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    @freelancer:

    Yeah, it’s been really bad again today

  18. 18.

    smiley

    October 5, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    @smiley: There shoulda been an “a ” in there somewhere.

  19. 19.

    bayville

    October 5, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    It’s not exactly true that tax cuts and de-regulation are the primary focus of Jindal’s plan.
    He also feels “Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick”.

    That is a major distinction from the rest of the GOP’s health care plans.

  20. 20.

    Midnight Marauder

    October 5, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    @Makewi:

    What’s the complaint? Wrong team made the pitch?

    Still not trying these days, are you?

  21. 21.

    BDeevDad

    October 5, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    @smiley: Never says insurance can’t set higher rates for pre-existing conditions which would fit into the healthy lifestyle rates.

  22. 22.

    James F. Elliott

    October 5, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    There are ten items in Jindal’s list. Nine of them are contained within the various pieces of health care legislation the Democrats have already drafted. Jindal, to put it mildly, is a poon.

  23. 23.

    Stefan

    October 5, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    it is left as an exercise for the reader to determine which thoroughly researched scholarly work I clipped this from.

    You can see why Jonah “Doughboy” Goldberg would resist anyone forcing him to be healthy for his own good. On the one hand, the awesome power of the state, on the other, the siren song of bacon-wrapped Mallomars covered in rich, creamery butter…..

  24. 24.

    bryan

    October 5, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    “Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.”

    this seems tepid and naive.

    does anyone remember Bush, this is what the above innocuous descriptions will actually turn out to mean:

    15 billion dollars to the Council of Christian Heterosexuals to plan, promote, and educate heterosexuality among the at risk practicing homosexual community.

    40 million dollar advertising program aimed at getting gays to practice celibacy as the only surefire program to prevent AIDS (note of course these monetary amounts will mainly be eaten up by organizational overhead.)

    scrapped program to allow aids positive gay men to sign up for castration in return for payment of their medical expenses, liberals get upset, the base says yep, liberals loves dem gays.

    — how many ways can various things that Conservatives dislike be spun as diseases, lets try to focus only on things that they don’t already deal with adequately – meaning fuck anyone up that has anything to do with them…

    addiction to porn as being a gateway to sexual deviancy and STDs…

    more christian anti-abortion programs, noting that STD rates are higher among those who get abortions than in the general populace?

    no, no, that simple little paean to the healthy life was actually a sly nod to everyone that, should Bobby get in, there will all sorts of high minded ways to line their pockets.

  25. 25.

    Reason60

    October 5, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    I read through his proposal, and while I give him credit for trying a positive approach, and will go ahead and say most of the ideas are innocuous, I have to say the basic premise is faulty.
    Namely, that universal coverage can be achieved via market solutions alone. I compare it to education- as if we could achieve universal education by private schools and vouchers without a publicly funded system of schools.
    (I fear to say this aloud, lest a Randian set of ears pick up on it and make it the newest meme.)

    And ok, I can’t resist- I smiled a the thought of how many millions Rush would need to pay to cover his er, lifestyle health choices.

  26. 26.

    Stefan

    October 5, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    He also feels “Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick”.

    Great, so now Comrade Jindal wants a command economy. How is this any different than communism!?!? (Or fascism — I get them mixed up sometimes). So some hard-working private company legitimately decides it’s in the shareholders’ best interests to avoid covering the sick, and suddenly the government is going to “incentivize” (read: order at the point of a gun) it to actually provide high-quality health care? Can this be America????

  27. 27.

    Warren Terra

    October 5, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    There are ten items in Jindal’s list. Nine of them are contained within the various pieces of health care legislation the Democrats have already drafted. Jindal, to put it mildly, is a poon.

    poon
    n.
    Any of several trees of the genus Calophyllum, of southern Asia, having light hard wood used for masts and spars.
    (from the American Heritage Dictionary)

    (and yes, I do know that the Urban Dictionary exists – but at least I found this funny).

  28. 28.

    mai naem

    October 5, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    What gets me with the MSM bigwigs is that the vast majority of them are based in solidly blue states with better insurance regulation. Additionally many are celebrities who aren’t going to get claims rejected. On top of that you know they have really good insurance so they are even less likely to get claims rejected. To top it off even if they get rejected claims, it doesn’t matter because they can afford to pay out of pocket. So, they actually have no clue. I would like Neal Cavuto go to a southern,plains or mountain west state and see if he can even obtain insurance with his ms. BTW these are the same pigs who want to start the race to the bottom by allowing people to buy insurance across state lines.

  29. 29.

    Makewi

    October 5, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Not feeling especially helpful I see.

  30. 30.

    Skepticat

    October 5, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    The Million Meatball March line made my day. (Bet Lily and Tunch liked it, too.)

  31. 31.

    Brachiator

    October 5, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    Wow. Just wow. This is the Republican attempt at a plan?

    There is one good idea in here: letting parents keep their adult children on their health plans. This is far superior to Democratic proposals to force younger people to buy health care.

    But some of this other stuff that Pindal pedals simply repeats a Democratic health care plank without offering any GOP alternative (portability. Bobby likes it!)

    Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health

    .

    Some insurance plans are already doing some of this. And the way that Jindall frames it, it sounds like Jimmy Carter asking people to wear sweaters during the last energy crisis. And the Republicans mocked Carter for this. Otherwise, this is very weak tea.

    Lawsuit reform

    I guess that tort reform sounds too high-falutin.’ Still, Jindal pushes the lie that medical lawsuits are a big cost, when every study that I’ve seen says that it is not really the case.

    I guess it says something that the Republicans are finally starting to move from stubborn opposition to an attempt at debate. But if this is the best that they can come up with, maybe they should just revert back to shouting and whining at town hall meetings.

  32. 32.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    I’ve always thought that wingnuts, despite their pooh poohing Darwin and his theories, are a living petri dish of survival of the fittest. Lines like this from voodoo Bobby only serve to strengthen my theory.

    Or we give cash incentives to those who don’t need them because they can already afford good health care, even if they live on twinkies, and the rest can die in the ER waiting room. Everything, and I mean everything is based on judgment of worthiness by size of bank account, even the worthiness to keep sucking air on spaceship earth.

    And of course, to them, it’s the way baby jeevus would want it.

  33. 33.

    JimPortlandOR

    October 5, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    More Looney Tunes from the RNC chair on healthcare:

    RNC Chairman Michael Steele “took a shot at the American Medical Association today, saying the organization doesn’t have ‘credibility’ on health care reform,” according to The Hill.

    But Michael Steele does.

  34. 34.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    There is one good idea in here: letting parents keep their adult children on their health plans. This is far superior to Democratic proposals to force younger people to buy health care.

    The Dem plans I’ve seen do allow adult children to remain on their parents’ plans for some period of time. I’m not convinced rewarding the aristocracy for passing social position and insurance on to their children is the best thing for a democracy, but I’m open to persuasion.

  35. 35.

    asiangrrlMN

    October 5, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Bwahahahahahaha! Man, these guys are really cracking me up today. I don’t know why it is, but everything they say (today) is just so precious and droll.

    And, I would totally sign up for the Million Meatball March. I’m just sayin’.

  36. 36.

    Zifnab

    October 5, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Bobby Jindal has an op-ed in the WaPo today featuring some conservative ideas on health care (I’m guessing he’s decided that print is a better medium for him).

    I don’t know. I always thought Jindal had a face for radio.

    So some hard-working private company legitimately decides it’s in the shareholders’ best interests to avoid covering the sick, and suddenly the government is going to “incentivize” (read: order at the point of a gun) it to actually provide high-quality health care? Can this be America????

    No no no. You have to “incentivize” as in “offer large tax cuts”. If an insurance company thinks that paying claims will cut into it’s profits, the government needs to offer large tax credits to offset the cost of paying said claims. And if the business needs evolve, even larger tax cuts need to be provided, until the company believes it can make a reasonably sized profit.

    The GOP solution to health care is to have government pay for all the costs, while corporations continue to rake in millions in needless administration fees. It’s just another iteration of corporate handouts.

  37. 37.

    Mike G

    October 5, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Jindal pushes the lie that medical lawsuits are a big cost, when every study that I’ve seen says that it is not really the case.

    Various methods of tort reform have been tried in 38 states, with minimal effect on costs.

    This is like the couple billion CHeney/Chimp stuck in the budget every year for ‘clean coal technology’ – a meaningless red herring to distract from fixing the actual problems that would cut into their cronies’ profits.

  38. 38.

    Gwangung

    October 5, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    @MikeJ: I don’t think the folks who’d leap at keeping their adult kids on their health plan could be described as anything close to arstocrstic.

  39. 39.

    Enlightened Layperson

    October 5, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    Presumably he’s saying virtuous private insurance companies, not the evil government, should do this. Remember, if it’s part of the private sector, it’s never wrong.

  40. 40.

    Zifnab

    October 5, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    @mai naem:

    BTW these are the same pigs who want to start the race to the bottom by allowing people to buy insurance across state lines.

    I honestly don’t like the state-by-state system, because it allows companies to accrue monopolies in their little fiefdoms. If you start a successful health care business in Ohio, it’s difficult to transport the model into Michigan. We need a uniform set of federal regulations on insurance that consolidate the best of the state systems. We don’t need rackets divvied up by state.

    But the GOP “solution” to interstate insurance sales is to effectively abolish state regulations. You’ll just end up with a bunch of hucksters running their game out of fly-over country, offering shit coverage that they don’t intend to pay. It’s another riff on deregulation, and it’s crap.

  41. 41.

    JackieBinAZ

    October 5, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    I guess that tort reform sounds too high-falutin.’ Still, Jindal pushes the lie that medical lawsuits are a big cost, when every study that I’ve seen says that it is not really the case.

    Maybe someone finally told them it’s one of those insider phrases that only means something to the base.

  42. 42.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    @Gwangung: I’d prefer affordable health care for everybody to having adults who are lucky enough to have parents being forced to rely on them.

  43. 43.

    jl

    October 5, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    No, I cannot imagine the fuss that would ensue. It is a long strange journey for this country that transformed ‘sensible Mom’ advice to eat an apple instead of having another candy bar, or bag of cheetos, and maybe it would be a good idea to talk a walk into the epitome of totalitarianism.

    Some doctors have bought into the great cause of freedom to live like a five year old with no adult supervision all one’s life too. I heard a talk by a cardiologist recently who was saying, ‘Hey, maybe the best thing is to just drug them up with statins and high blood pressure medications, and hope for the best. Who are we to tell them how to live their lives.” That was followed by a few phrases of some libertarian boilerplate. I wanted to ask the guy who was going to pay for the drugs, and how much pharma kickback money he gets for the prescriptions he writes, but resisted the urge.

    Some of Jindhahl’s advice is good: Voluntary purchasing pools, portability combined with No exclusions for pre-existing conditions would solve a lot of problems. Extending dependency status for health insurance is also a good idea. Refundable tax credits might be good if they are targeted for primary care. But if they could be easily become a subsidy for higher income people, if not targeted towards poor. Do not see how they would help people who pay no income tax. Tax credits is a minor gimmick, in the big picture.

    Other things may be good ideas, but Jindhal provides no details, just slogans. Reimbursement reform: would be good, but how does he propose to do it? Requiring one basic comprehensive plan would go a long way, because reimbursement system would gradually be reconfigured around that, with less arguing over coverage. But, widespread adoption of single benefit package would probably be evil “meddlesome regulation.” EMRs are good. But again, how does he propose to do it with unregulated free markets?

    Lawsuit reform: but what kind? Caps on don’t do much, so what exactly does he suggest?

    Bad ideas: Tax free savings accounts (if he means ones with high deductables: that is bad. Conservatives have been recently talking all Hayek about consumer preference in the amount of healthcare they want to consume, as if subjective tastes for health care is the crucial issue. But it is not. Health status is not a matter of tastes. It is better thought of as a very uncertain machine that may break catastrophically. If it breaks catastrophically, there are laws that require some sucker to pay to try to fix it. Unless we want to repeal laws mandating care for life threatening catastrophic situations, it is an illusion to think that giving people incentives to skimp on primary care (which is exactly what high deductable health savings accounts and some tax rebate proposals) will save money.

    My question is, do you want to repeal laws that require treatment of life-threatening illness, and just have, for example, diabetics flopping over from kidney failure, or with their feet rotting off? If the answer is no, then I do not see now high deductable policies

    But, as commenters above have noted, most of the good stuff in the Jinahl column is in current bills. and not ‘GOP ideas’ at all.

    The rest consists of slogans with no content and bad idea.

    So, my grade is FAIL.

  44. 44.

    New Yorker

    October 5, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    I want Jindal to go back to babbling about volcanoes. That was far more entertaining.

  45. 45.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    @Mike G:

    The only real problem I have ever heard about concerning frivolous lawsuits rising to the level of fraud on the system, whether medical or other, centers around the concept of venue shopping. Or, certain places around the country where a kind of loose conspiracy of lawyers and local jury pools exist to bring suits, often the Class Action kind that tend to favor plaintiffs.

    Oddly enough, when I lived in Mississippi in the 90’s, the place was rife with them, as they were across the south.

    Otherwise, there is already a curb on frivolous lawsuits, they are called judges and juries. And out of the 100 thousand or so deaths that occur annually from medical error, only about 5 percent become lawsuits. So, if there is a problem, it is that we don’t have enough lawsuits and this should be corrected.

    These so called frivolous lawsuits are the only curbs we have on a medical industry that protects it’s own,

  46. 46.

    HyperIon

    October 5, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    @freelancer: Mustn’t. bitch. about. server. argh.

    why not?
    i don’t get it.
    it’s not like this site gets a zillion hits every day.

    and how complicated is it to set up a website (which got a complete re-design about a year ago IIRC..when the comments WERE editable) and maintain it?

    what has caused this most recent problem that we have been suffering with for months?

    i’m beginning to wonder about the tech competency of the folks doing this “upgrade” “reinstall”.

  47. 47.

    Skippy

    October 5, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    I have to admit, Kenneth the Page has impressed me against my will – there can’t be too many examples of IOKIYAR that don’t involve sex and wrongdoing.

    The GOP’s obsession with tax cuts was proof, long before the rise of the wingnutosphere and teabaggers, that Republicans are fucking insane – with the definition of insanity being to make the same mistake over and over and expect a different result.

  48. 48.

    Chad N Freude

    October 5, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    @JimPortlandOR:

    the American Medical Association today, saying the organization doesn’t have ‘credibility’ on health care reform

    They used to have credibility, when they were against soc[i]alized medicine.

  49. 49.

    Brachiator

    October 5, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    @MikeJ:

    I’d prefer affordable health care for everybody to having adults who are lucky enough to have parents being forced to rely on them.

    This is really not an either/or issue. At some level, there might not be much difference between a health plan that lets parents keep their adult children on it, and “friends and family” phone plans.

    On the other hand, Massachusetts tried to make people get health care. It is a more punitive than successful practice.

  50. 50.

    freelancer

    October 5, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    @HyperIon:

    why not?

    So I don’t sound like that.

  51. 51.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    @Brachiator: Don’t get me wrong. I hate the idea of forcing people to give 1/6th of their paycheck to insurance companies. I do think we could do something like what any of the 36 countries with better healthcare do since they all do it cheaper.

  52. 52.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    @freelancer:

    Huh, just got BJ server problemos. Try having a dsl signal hovering about half a micro db above signal death, plus server trouble. And then having hour long phone yelling matches with techs in the Far Far East, who don’t understand your cuss words, and vice versa. With the only other broadband service available being the great wingnut Comcast company.

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    October 5, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    @Zifnab:

    But the GOP “solution” to interstate insurance sales is to effectively abolish state regulations. You’ll just end up with a bunch of hucksters running their game out of fly-over country, offering shit coverage that they don’t intend to pay. It’s another riff on deregulation, and it’s crap.

    Like the way your credit card company insists that it only has to follow the laws in the state it’s incorporated in so they legally can screw you with that extra fee? Then you’ll love having your insurance company do the same thing while you’re getting chemotherapy!

  54. 54.

    Silver Owl

    October 5, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    God forbid today’s conservative actually do anything that benefits the American people rather than paying never ending monetary homage to corporations that want to kill the American people for shoe shopping trips.

  55. 55.

    Demo Woman

    October 5, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Where’s the football blog?

  56. 56.

    jl

    October 5, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    I read that some Blue Dog and Republican Congresspeople supported the idea of tax surcharges on ‘gold-plated’ comprehensive health care coverage polices. That confirmed to me that the GOP’s priorities are preserving corporate profits, not anything at all about individual freedom or the free market.

    Several s o s h u l i s t Yurrpp countries allow a relatively unregulated market in supplemental insurance. Everyone gets that basic comprehensive policy. But if you want more coverage, or coverage with more amenities, you can buy it on the supplemental market. I have never read anything about special taxes being laid on these supplemental policies to discourage them.

    But look at the US surtax charge idea. The Congresscritters are desperate to reduce costs, or to do something that makes it look like they will reduce costs. But they want to preserve an unregulated insurance market with confusing and non-transparent reimbursement policies, and a maze of different types of coverage, that create huge administrative costs. These features also allow ways for insurance companies to charge more.

    Rather than fix this system (and from other countries, we have half a dozen examples how good ways to do it) it seems OK here in the US to penalize through heavy handed government interference (tax surcharges) those who want more healthcare coverage than given by some measure of average coverage.

    Who will this hurt? I would guess upper middle class people and high income employees, not the truly wealthy. Even gold plated healthcare policy money is peanuts to the mega-millionare corporate titans.

    Ever since I heard Blue Dog Democrat and GOP Congresscritters on my internet TV proposing these surcharges on ‘gold plated’ policies, I decided they are all just frauds who are really out to protect corporate profits, and the bankrupt and crooked corporate chieftan royal class, and nothing else.

    Underneath the bogus wonktalk, many of the Blue Dog and Republican proposals boil down to creating hidden and disguised regulations and taxation schemes to reduce health care provided to ordinary people and maintain corporate profits. That these evil proposals have a good chance of passing is a sign the political system in this country is truly sick and depraved, and deeply corrupt.

  57. 57.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    October 5, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    @JimPortlandOR: Yeah. Don’t trust the doctors. That will go well with Jindal’s Laying on of Hands Health Care Plan(TM). You’ll still have to pay extra for the Pray Away the Gay(R) option.

    Oops. Looks like The GOP doesn’t think Steele has any credibility on the issue. Also.

  58. 58.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Where’s the football blog?

    Yesterday’s result:
    Chelsea 2 – 0 Liverpool

    2 points up over Man U.

  59. 59.

    Chad N Freude

    October 5, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    a sign the political system in this country is truly sick and depraved, and deeply corrupt.

    You’ve just figured this out?

    I’m sorry, I know you’re serious (and I pretty much agree with everything you said), but the temptation to snark was overwhelming.

  60. 60.

    jl

    October 5, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    @Chad N Freude: No I did not just figure that out, I needed a conclusion. Apologies for my lack of creativity.

    But it is evidence that the system is really really really really really really corrupt and evil, not just really really corrupt and evil. I probably should have written that instead.

  61. 61.

    kay

    October 5, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    The Senate HELP plan has a provision to allow adult children on parent’s plan to age 26.
    If there’s some wealthy conservative who wants to back my “grass roots” Movement of One I will scream about that provision over and over at a Town Hall meeting. That may be the only way to spread the word.

  62. 62.

    Corner Stone

    October 5, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    @freelancer: Hey free – can I just say your “shitfaced” post from late last night was a thing of beauty.
    How you managed to spell anything at all, much less make some semblance of sentences…hats off to you.
    You’re either better than you know, or you stole BoB’s wordsalad madlib generator.

  63. 63.

    Corner Stone

    October 5, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    @Stefan:

    What’s next, Comrade Jindal, government death panels for the fat and flabby?

    …*GULP*…

  64. 64.

    jl

    October 5, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Another example that the Blue Dogs and GOPers free market and liberty talk is BS, is the abortive ‘70% medical loss ratio’ reform proposal.

    As near as I can figure, being an ordinary US serf, and not being on the inside of the ruling class, the health insurance and health plan industry strated calling around and telling their flunkies in Congress that they did not care what was done, and would not oppose reform, as long as they could get a 70% medical loss ratio. Bascically this means that they could keep 30 cents on every dollar of premiums, and only spend 70 cents on medical care.

    The news hit the shrill lefty blogs, and I was not sure whether to believe it, it seemed so brazen and vile.

    But then some Congressional Blue Dogs and GOPers floated this idea as a reform proposal. “Gosh, we could really cut costs if the consumer paid 30% of all medical bills”. I guess these people were too butt stupid to figure out that a 70% medical loss ratio was not a reform proposal for anything good (more efficient care, better population health, more reliable coverage). No, it was only good to help ensure corporate profits, and nothing else.

    I noticed that this 70% medical loss ratio did not last long as a public proposal for reform. It may still be privately disseminated requirement for industry support, but what do I know?

    Some free market principles, huh?

  65. 65.

    Chad N Freude

    October 5, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    @John Cole Is A Good Man « Beware The Man:

    he picked up this dog at a shelter and they have a wonderful and heartwarming love affair

    OMG! Does Rick Santorum know about this?

  66. 66.

    freelancer

    October 5, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I had no idea what you were talking about, then I went into the memory hole. Oh dear. The funniest thing to me is my immediate self-awareness, even though I have no memory of composing either post.

    Today was a fun day at work, you betcha.

  67. 67.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    @kay:

    The Senate HELP plan has a provision to allow adult children on parent’s plan to age 26.

    I can hear the wingers now.

    Twenty Six! must be a dern hippie freeloader with parents growing bean sprouts and reefer for a living.

  68. 68.

    smiley

    October 5, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    I really don’t get the hate.

    Michelle, ..Beautiful ? Patrick Ewing in drag !!!!
    Posted by: XXX | October 4, 2009 10:17 AM

    The comments at that link are foul, but not as bad as elsewhere. The difference is that it’s at a mainstream newspaper from the Obamas’ home town. Not that I want them censored, but jeez… the hate is scary. I feel the need to wade into it occasionally just to remind myself about what’s out there. It’s not all BJ, Benen, TPM, and Digby.

  69. 69.

    madmommy

    October 5, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Jindal is my Governor. He embarasses me pretty much daily. I swear that there are a few sane, rational people in Louisiana. Unfortunately, none of them seem to be holding elective office at the moment.

  70. 70.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    How very weird, For a split second there was an edit function for firefox, of my comment. Then it disappeared, either that or I have a magic mushroom deficiency.

  71. 71.

    D-Chance.

    October 5, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Welcome me to Obama’s 10% Club. I just told my paycheck overlords to stick it.

    Nah, it’s really going to be amicable. They want to move in a new direction and totally change my work responsibilities, and I have no interest in taking on those new assignments (mostly management and personnel relations… like I’m a “people person”… pffft). Not like they weren’t warned, as I told them months ago that I would walk when they began implementation of their new business model. But, as they said in the last meeting our department had, this is the “moment of truth”. And it’s time to go down the other path now that we’re at the fork in the road.

    Anyone need a middle-aged, cranky old bastard who works hard despite the ‘fuck you’ demeanor?

  72. 72.

    LD50

    October 5, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Can you imagine the screams of fascism and nonsense that we would be subjected to if anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh proposed this? The Reason folks alone would have the vapors and publish a seven part series on faceless bureaucrats trying to tell us all how to live and plaintive wails about central planning

    ‘Nanny state’ is the wingnut cliche we’d be hearing ad fucking nauseum.

  73. 73.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    @D-Chance.:

    like I’m a “people person”… pffft).

    Lmao. I always thought you were DC, some peeps need a a good “fuck you” now and then. And some need one coming back the other way. Balances the yang and all.

  74. 74.

    LD50

    October 5, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    @Makewi: Jeez, Makewi. You’re just mailing it in today. I’ve seen Paul L do better than that.

  75. 75.

    kay

    October 5, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    If that provision weren’t a slippery slope to mandated-abortion-on-demand we could garner bipartisan support.

    But, it is. So, we can’t.

  76. 76.

    smiley

    October 5, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    @madmommy: There are a few of us here who are from LA (although I haven’t lived there in the last 20+ years – all my family is still there though – mostly in Baton Rouge – and they’re pretty moderate republicans). I’m sad to agree with you that LA is going from purple to red. Just like Rove et al., planned, post Katrina.

  77. 77.

    Sputnik_Sweetheart

    October 5, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    @Ripley: Yeah, that was my same thought too. Insurance companies have been giving discounts and refunds for gym memberships and various health classes for quite a while now. And guess what!? Obesity and heart disease are now things of the past– oh wait. Preventive medicine is very important but it can’t be the primary healthcare solution.

  78. 78.

    86'd from every Irish bar in midtown

    October 5, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Who will this hurt? I would guess upper middle class people and high income employees, not the truly wealthy. Even gold plated healthcare policy money is peanuts to the mega-millionare corporate titans.

    As the real fake John McLaughlin used to say, “WRONG!!!” This will have the biggest impact on two constituencies much loathed by the right: the vestigial union workforce, and public-sector employees. Both groups have tended to trade cash compensation for health benefits, and the “market” value of these plans, especially if they’re self-insurance, is easily above the gold-plated threshold. They get to mouth about market-oriented cost containment and the to shiv two traditionally Democratic blocs is like gravy.

    Ever since I heard Blue Dog Democrat and GOP Congresscritters on my internet TV proposing these surcharges on ‘gold plated’ policies, I decided they are all just frauds who are really out to protect corporate profits, and the bankrupt and crooked corporate chieftan royal class, and nothing else.

    My employer, despite vicious cost-containment actions that demolished the workforce, has neither scaled back on our health plan, nor decreased their contribution. (My guess was that the executives like the plan as well.) We have two options: high and low. The high is the usual PPO plan, and it has modest copayments capped at $2000 annually and no deductibles for in-network services (and the network is quite large). The low option is junk: 20% co-insurance and some ridiculously high annual maximum. The difference in premiums is, to my thinking, relatively small at $40/month for individuals and $100/month for families. Not trivial, but given the exposure of the low option, it’s no wonder that no one takes it. Not that the insurance rep doesn’t put everyone in a headlock trying to get them to take the low option. My point is that, if the high option is actuarially sound, then the junk option, should people be forced CadillacTax to take it, would just be a cash cow…

  79. 79.

    jl

    October 5, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    @86′d from every Irish bar in midtown: Thanks. I thought about impact on union members after I posted the comment, but never went back to add it. I was thinking high income employees would cover unions, but that is probably not really correct.

  80. 80.

    Corner Stone

    October 5, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    @86′d from every Irish bar in midtown: Man… I don’t know what the FUCK you just said, Little Kid, but you’re special man, you reached out, and you touch a brother’s heart.

  81. 81.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    Glenn Beck would be weeping about taking America back from the health care czars who want to run your life, and the teabaggers would plan a Million Meatball March to protest healthy lifestyles.

    It is becoming ever more clear, that if dems want to have things go the right way, we are going to have to do the “libtard flip” or, come out against abortion, healthcare, (including lots of Meat Ball diets), and promise to build a statue of Baby Jeebus in every town square. And also come out for war, torture, and the financial fleecing of any flock we can.

    Then sit back and watch wingnuts pass all the things we really want. Reverse psychology on crazy people. What could go wrong?

  82. 82.

    freelancer

    October 5, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I don’t watch 30 Rock anymore, but Tracy Morgan sure has his moments sometimes.

  83. 83.

    Corner Stone

    October 5, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    @freelancer: Can I just ask you?
    Is this:

    Doubt should rule us all.

    Read like Gandalf in LoR “Fly! You fools!”
    Or
    Read like Red in Shawshank “Andy crawled to freedom through five hundred yards of shit smelling foulness I can’t even imagine, or maybe I just don’t want to”

  84. 84.

    Svensker

    October 5, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    @smiley:

    I really don’t get the hate.
    Michelle, ..Beautiful ? Patrick Ewing in drag !
    Posted by: XXX | October 4, 2009 10:17 AM

    And they’re all complaining about Obama going out on a date with his wife while troops are being killed in Afghanistan. You bet they were screaming their heads off while Bush was vacationing during his two wars. God, I hate these people.

  85. 85.

    Kayla Rudbek

    October 5, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    @BDeevDad: amen to that. And cochlear implants are even worse to maintain if you lose coverage…

  86. 86.

    General Winfield Stuck

    October 5, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    @BDeevDad:

    Sorry about your daughter. I only have about 50 percent hearing in one ear and it’s slowly declining from life long chronic ear infections that are intractable. I haven’t checked yet for myself, but have been told there are special services for hearing impaired.. Luckily, for me, I’ll likely be dead before the great silence comes, but for a young person with their life ahead of them, I think there are ways to get help without insurance. At least there should be.

  87. 87.

    BDeevDad

    October 6, 2009 at 12:27 am

    @General Winfield Stuck: Thanks. My wife has become a resource expert. To be frank, the hearing aids are the least of our concerns, just currently everything else is covered.

    @Kayla Rudbek: I can’t imagine losing coverage as my daughter also has a whole host of issues. I do know that if you have trouble getting cochlear implants then the folks at letthemhear.org will provide pro-bono services to fight your insurance company.

  88. 88.

    bago

    October 6, 2009 at 7:30 am

    @HyperIon: and how complicated is it to set up a website (which got a complete re-design about a year ago IIRC..when the comments WERE editable) and maintain it

    You have no idea. Find out the difference between an O(n) operation and an O(n^2) operation is. Linear vs Parabolic.

  89. 89.

    JenJen

    October 6, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Late to the party, but “Million Meatball March” is your basic insta-classic, John. :-)

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. Paging Betsy McAughey : Galt Gone Wild says:
    October 5, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    […] It’s only crazy when a black guy proposes it: Bobby Jindal has an op-ed in the WaPo today featuring some conservative ideas on health care (I’m guessing he’s decided that print is a better medium for him). This one caught my eye: Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health. […]

  2. John Cole Is A Good Man « Beware The Man says:
    October 5, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    […] O under Political | Tags: Balloon Juice, John Cole, Lily | Leave a Comment  In addition to posting funny stuff like this, he picked up this dog at a shelter and they have a wonderful and heartwarming love affair […]

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