This stinks:
No, the network hasn’t started airing the show’s second season yet. Why — why do you ask?
Oh, that’s right. Because axing a returning scripted drama right before its season debut is highly unusual.
It’s sort of like shooting your racehorse in the starting gate.
The network has six produced episodes, which were originally scheduled to begin airing on Fridays starting Oct. 23. Instead NBC has shut down production on “Southland” and plans to keep “Dateline” in the slot.
Southland was, as far as I was concerned, the best show NBC had run since Boomtown. Which, of course, they killed prematurely, as well. You want good drama? Forget NBC. Nothing but the criminally unfunny Jay Leno at 10 o’clock.
Joshua Norton
The Leno deal was a HUGE mistake. Maybe another network can take over “Southland”. Like maybe in the place of “Trauma”.
Duane
Totally agree on this….how in the hell can they justify this move. Oh well last place for a reason I guess.
J.D. Rhoades
Loved Boomtown, but the one episode I saw of Southland made me think “Eh. ‘The Wire-Lite'” Trying to be gritty, but afraid to be TOO gritty. It just didn’t work for me.
JK
Fuck NBC and Fuck Jay Leno. NBC’s idea to create the Jay Leno Show was criminally stupid.
Crashman06
Oh geez. This was my favorite new show of last season; so gritty and interesting. NBC, you shitheads. I hope you continue to circle the drain of irrelevance.
Perhaps a ray of hope, though. The article says the show’s creator is looking for a new home. Perhaps one of the other networks will pony up.
JenJen
Seriously, what is NBC thinking, here? I could rant about this Leno show all day long.
It is AWFUL. I mean, I never liked Leno; he’s just not my thing, but I can appreciate that a lot of people found him funny and topical. I didn’t watch “The Tonight Show” at all during his tenure, but flipped it on immediately when Conan took over, and it’s still my go-to late-night show if I’m in the mood for that kind of thing.
But Leno, every weeknight at 10:00? You’ve got to be kidding me. It’s a horrible, horrible idea and was from the start, not just in its execution. It’s unsustainable. Every day is simply not that funny, and you have so many more people watching in primetime that expectations are too high every night. More importantly, it stifles creativity at the network when you have one show hogging up five hours of primetime every single week. Is NBC doing this more because they think it will pay off, or because it’s cheapest? You have to wonder if they’re even employing Leno’s old writers anymore, because honestly the show is just not funny, where, at times, it could be, albeit momentarily, in the 11:30 time slot.
Really sorry to hear about losing Southland, possibly in part because of this horrific Leno experiment. Drats.
Legalize
Network dramas? No thanks. I’m still creating “Wire” episodes in my head. Like the one where Jimmy McNulty and Bunk went undercover as counselors at an all girls summer camp. HILARIOUS!
linda
honestly, what braintrust runs the programming at g.e./nbc/mxnbc. ever notice the basic cable porn programmed over the weekends — endless prison stories, gruesome murders of pretty young girlies, etc.
The Saff
We were on vacation the week that Leno debuted so we were able to catch the first show. It was seriously unfunny and just plain bad. The second night wasn’t much better. Haven’t watched it since. I never thought Leno was a good interviewer and his monologues are mediocre at best.
Letterman is much, much funnier and a lot better interviewer. Same for Stewart and Colbert.
As for scripted network TV shows? Meh. I’ll take AMC and HBO any day. Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and Big Love are far superior to anything the networks broadcast.
Zifnab
Could be worse. They could have axed Arrested Development.
Brachiator
@JenJen:
Stifles creativity? That’s a good one. You’re talking about a town where newly named Disney movie chief Rich Ross was previously a marketing and “talent” guy. And what is he being most praised for?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-disney6-2009oct06,0,1327950.story
Ooh. Branding.
You’re talking about a town where, having exhausted the dramatic possibilities of movies based on toys (Transformers, G.I. Joe), Hollywood now has in development a slew of movies based on board games.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/entertainment/movies/Movies_Based_on_Board_Games__What_s_Coming__and_What_We_d_Like_to_See-60034267.html
You think that 5 nights of Jay Leno is the worst that these guys can do?
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Comrade Jake
I would routinely tune into NBC around 10pm some evenings, because they would at least have something decent on, even if it was L&O reruns. Now they have Leno, which is just unwatchable.
I mean I know it’s cheap to produce, but it’s just terrible. I’d rather watch the home shopping network.
gopher2b
Ugh. Southland was awesome. One of my goals for the year (and life) is to never watch a single episode of Leno. So far, so good.
Legalize
That’s a good goal. I’m on track too.
J.D. Rhoades
The second one. They’ve said as much. Leno lost something like 11 million viewers in its second week and NBC was pointing out they could lose even more and still make money.
MBunge
I’m always amazed at people who seem to think that network executives cancel shows like Southland out of spite or something. Southland was cancelled because its ratings sucked. End of story. The comparison to The Wire is instructive because nobody watched that show either.
I’m not sure how the show development process works at NBC, but it seems to have lost the ability to create basic meat-and-potatoes entertainment like NCIS or The Big Bang Theory. Shows like that won’t win you a lot of awards. They’ll just make you an assload of money.
Mike
PaulW
All the networks are screwed up.
I don’t know why Joss Whedon keeps trying to work with FOX when they treat his shows like crap.
Anything that’s not NCIS, CSI or Law and Order dies a quick death, except for Heroes which had one great opening season and then went straight to the junkpile.
And WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IS WRESTLING ON A SCI-FI CHANNEL??? Send it to USA Network where it belongs!
And WHY IS CARTOON NETWORK SHOWING LIVE-ACTION SHOWS? Just let Nick keep that market niche and BRING BACK JUSTICE LEAGUE!!!!!!
Fencedude
Meh, whatever. I long ago gave up on American TV for entertainment.
Its just not worth getting invested emotionally into anything airing on the Networks, since its a given that if it doesn’t suck, it’ll be canned.
slimslowslider
I love Jim Norton!
Rob in Denver
Unless you also remember The Black Donnelys. Otherwise, what you write is entirely true.
NBC is dumb.
geg6
@J.D. Rhoades:
Me three. But I may just be the champ as I never once watched the Tonight Show after Johnny Carson retired. I’ve been a Letterman girl ever since.
And, yes. If I was on his staff, I’d hit that. ;-)
donovong
Well, fuck. Instead of a show with great potential, we get shitty substitutes for E.R. and Leno – who was apparently a lot funnier when I was half asleep. The programming geniuses at NBC are insane.
At least I still have Diners, Drive-ins and Dives.
Sentient Puddle
All of a sudden, I fear for Chuck.
Morbo
And yet all day at work I have to listen to them advertise on Pandora for Trauma and Mercy. Oh, and Leno of course. NBC is clearly in ER withdrawal.
Persia
@MBunge: But the fact is that ratings also depend on network promotion and support. Some shows need to ‘build,’ and some shows need solid, smart promotions and consistent time slots. Mad Men only started pulling in ‘good’ ratings this year, but AMC sold ‘pricey’ air time and hoped that and the awards would keep it afloat. Worked out pretty well for them.
Zifnab
@MBunge:
Until it got some recognition, won some awards, and developed a big following. Also see: Firefly, Arrested Development, Family Guy, Scrubs, Mad Men, True Blood, hell even LOST had it’s slumps.
At a certain point, producers have to accept that not everything will get American Idol ratings all the time. And putting shows in bad timeslots – or jumping them from day to day – will cost ratings in the short run. But not everyone wants to watch American Idol or DWTS, so its actually worth continuing a show on Prime Time even if it’s not a timeslot leader.
I mean, shit, they kept Heroes around and that show has been dragging for years. Networks need to have a bit of foresight.
Kennedy
Too dark and gritty for broadcast TV? What a bunch of fucking pussies.
Why the fuck is it that you almost HAVE to subscribe to HBO to see any decent TV shows anymore? Oh I forgot….Nipplegate and the FCC. And we are a center-right nation. Also.
Punchy
Mythbusters, bitches. Pitch the damn dramas and go non-fickshun.
Also tits — NHL on Versus in HD.
MBunge
“Mad Men only started pulling in ‘good’ ratings this year, but AMC sold ‘pricey’ air time and hoped that and the awards would keep it afloat. Worked out pretty well for them.”
Mad Men’s ratings suck even by cable standards. I believe The Closer kicks its ass 7 ways to sunday. And if you asked the cast of Mad Men how much money they’re making, you might be surprised at how they’re making out.
Mike
some guy
Southland is (was?) pretty good. Probably one of the better police dramas on network TV in recent years, but that’s not saying a whole lot. Homicide: Life on the Streets was the last great network cop show. Law and Order (the original) is still a very decent procedural, but the attempts at drama on Law and Order: SVU and CI are usually pretty lame. Don’t get me started on CSI. The writing is way too cute, and I find the endless gee-whiz science montages are beyond annoying.
MBunge
“Until it got some recognition, won some awards, and developed a big following. Also see: Firefly, Arrested Development, Family Guy, Scrubs, Mad Men, True Blood, hell even LOST had it’s slumps.”
Only one of those shows (Family Guy) has ever been even close to a ratings success.
Mike
Zifnab
@Kennedy:
If there’s one thing you can say about 24, it’s the complete lack of darkness and/or grit.
ET
And NBC continues is slide into dead air.
As a side question, does anyone knows what happens when a station as a whole ceases to exist?
Cain
@MBunge:
Cancelling Firefly should have been considered a crime. I’d like to waterboard the exec who decided that. They could have milked that show for years and made a lot of money. Every person who I’ve forced them to watch were amazed it was cancelled.
cain
Chuck
Word is NBC almost cancelled my namesake show, Chuck. Apparently they made them cut back the budget and cut out half the cast instead — could end up with no more Buy More at all!
I guess all things considered it is a high budget show (pyrotechnics, stunts, car chases, every show at a new locale) but I can’t help but feel gutting the show is a prelude to cancelling it altogether. Why you hate me so much NBC?
Sentient Puddle
@MBunge:
Curiously, that also happened after it was canceled.
MBunge
“They could have milked that show for years and made a lot of money.”
The box office returns for Firefly seem to refute that contention.
Mike
some guy
Yes, anyone who’s paid any sort of attention to television anytime over, say, the last few decades can attest to the fact that “quality” is not synonymous with “ratings success.” It’s why a lot of really great programming is on cable these days, where producers are allowed to take bigger risks and go after niche audiences.
For example, as bad as the ratings for “Mad Men” might be, it’s not like AMC has a whole lot of other content to plug in on a Sunday night anyway. Yet another showing of “Death Wish 4” or “Iron Eagle 3” will not draw more ratings, and it certainly won’t generate any kind of critical buzz, raising the profile (however slightly) of the channel and, more importantly, selling DVDs.
AMC is also producing a remake of The Prisoner. Even if it ends up garbage, you have to give them props for having the balls to try it. A legacy network would NEVER consider airing something as high concept.
Bottom line: Southland was canceled because a critical mass of the American television viewing public prefer to watch people sing karaoke and dance around like idiots, or hackneyed sitcoms with brain-melting laugh tracks. Now that 300 cable channels provide ultra-niche programming, the networks are stuck catering to the lowest common denominators to stay afloat while cable channels produce the the few shows actually worth watching.
And it doesn’t help that whenever a “risky” show actually gets greenlighted on a network these days it inevitably premieres on one timeslot, then gets its timeslot moved over and over again until whatever small fanbase it started to build gets frustrated not being able to find it and gives up.
/rant over
blondie
Do you think that they sit around the NBC Board room or wherever it is that they make these decisions and ask themselves, “what is the dumbest thing I can do today? Cancel the good show? Let’s go with that!”????
I think they do.
Dumbasses.
Bad Horse's Filly
I seem to have killed BJ, but it’s back now.
What is really odd about this move by NBC is that they have 6 episodes in the can and are choosing not to air them. I’d love to know what they are smoking over there. I cannot ever remember a returning show being cancelled days before the premiere without 1 episode airing.
I excitedly await the return of Chuck, but hope this is not a sign of things go come. And when Chuck returns that will make exactly 1 show I watch on NBC.
The Saff
@some guy:
This.
And AMC gives creative freedom to both Matthew Weiner (Mad Men) and Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad); it certainly shows week after week.
Not sure of the demographics for them, but if I had to guess, I’d say it’s somewhat educated and affluent (maybe like the demos were for “The West Wing,” my personal teevee fav that I watch over and over on DVD). I prefer compelling story lines with interesting characters, excellent writing, and good acting. Both AMC shows meet this criteria, in my humble opinyun.
Persia
@MBunge: Matt Wiener’s doing all right last I heard. And how much money it makes the cast isn’t how much it makes the network. Anyway, the point wasn’t that Mad Men is a runaway ratings success, it’s that its ratings only improved after the first two seasons (yes, they’re still not very good, especially in comparison to cable). Not everything’s a blockbuster straight out of the gate.
Joshua Norton
Actually, I can’t think of a more appropriate channel to air wrestling. The entire WWE is pure science fiction.
burnspbesq
Hopefully “Southland” will end up picked up by a cable channel, or with a cost-sharing deal similar to the deal between NBC and DirecTV that saved “Friday Night Lights.”
That said, NBC’s decision not to run season 4 of FNL until next summer could send me back to DirecTV (or worse, to bittorrent). Last year, I managed to wait until February. I’m not waiting until June.
Persia
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Sometimes you get better ratings out of repeats of popular shows than you do with new episodes of unpopular shows. IIRC, when Farscape finally got the axe, repeats of Stargate were beating them in the ratings.
Billy K
You whiners know nothing heartbreaking program cancellations.
-Firefly fan
Mr Furious
Shit. That’s the only show I was looking forward to its return. It reminded me a LOT of Boomtown, which was also a large, ensemble cast thinking-person’s cop drama.
Neither were close to Homicide, but not much is.
NBC sucks.
Steeplejack
@ET:
As a side question, does anyone knows what happens when a station as a whole ceases to exist?
Yes, it becomes TBS, showing endless reruns of Saved by the Bell, Just Shoot Me and Everybody Loves Raymond. SATSQ.
I tuned to TBS the other night to catch the baseball playoffs, and I had to blow cobwebs off the screen.
Seanly
@Comrade Jake:
The cheapness is the point. The terribleness is a slightly inconvenient fact.
I don’t have the numbers, so I McMegan this… if Leno costs half as much as a scripted show but pulls in the same ad revenues then for NBC it’s a win. If fact, the issue isn’t even revenues, but the profit.
I read an article that speculated that Leno is the future of prime time. That begged the question of why people would want to watch 15 hours a week of unfunny skits & boring interviews. Of course, people will say the current primetime is pretty bad, but there are some enjoyable or entertaining shows out there even if they aren’t Ibsen and Shakespeare.
Basic cable seems to be putting out some decent shows. Sy Fy, A&E, USA have a few decent dramas. They wouldn’t do them unless they could turn a profit and I’m sure their budget per episode is a lot less than the networks.
And yes, I watch too much TV…
Shell
Don’t forget ‘Married With Children.’ A series which should be taken out and burned.
BongCrosby
@MBunge:
I’d take exception to LOST not being a ratings success, although it’s certainly bled viewers over the last two seasons.
LOST finished in the top 20 overall in its first four seasons and, as far as I know it’s still in the top 10 among the “holy land” of 18-49 year-old-viewers.
Yes, I am a crazy LOST person.
ericblair
@PaulW: And WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IS WRESTLING ON A SCI-FI CHANNEL??? Send it to USA Network where it belongs!
And WHY IS CARTOON NETWORK SHOWING LIVE-ACTION SHOWS?
I give you Network Decay.
I read an article that speculated that Leno is the future of prime time. That begged the question of why people would want to watch 15 hours a week of unfunny skits & boring interviews.
Oh good, we’re gonna get European TV now. Lucky I got my Netflix paid up.
Will
Better than 99 percent of the American people, I’d expect.
MBunge
“I read an article that speculated that Leno is the future of prime time.”
Only if the broadcast networks are going to stop being broadcast networks and devolve into cable “superstations” like TBS and WGN.
Mike
DrPresident
NBC is so fucking STUPID. Did they cancel “Chuck” also?
gil mann
I concur. That show was so awesome it deserved a Viking funeral.
“No, I said wits, Kelly, use your wits.“
skippy
as i said on my blog when the leno deal was first announced, nbc now is programming 5 1/2 hours of prime time/late night w/3 1/2 hours of talk shows.
2/3 of the time given to talk shows? that’s not a television network, that’s a radio station.
Anne Laurie
… especially since they ended the first season with a cliffhanger. I guess we need to start praying for a ‘complete series’ DVD set.
And I’m doubly pissed because Southland was supposed to be my consolation prize after they cancelled The Unusuals last spring, dammit.
Mercy is pretty good, though — much darker than you’d think from the promos. The pilot, for instance, has the front character saving an auto-accident victim with an emergency thorachotomy… after ‘treating’ his hysterical passenger/fiancee with a Three Stooges nostril-grab… and the fiancee reacts to this miracle by threatening to sue the hospital because FC is just a nurse, not even a doctor! ! ! Or the latest episode, which among other threads features a nurse beating a rabid racoon to death with a crutch, and makes it funny. It’s set in Newark instead of South Boston, but so far Mercy is actually reminding me of The Black Donnellys.
handy
late in on this thread but I have to ask, when is NBC going to do the decent thing and put Heroes out of its misery?
Woody
I hope I’m wrong, and I’ve only ever surfed through it, and did not stop, but I have a feeling Leno’s show will win a good chunk of audience-share. As soon as it does, it will create emulators. Think of the bobble-heads.
Except for tdswjs and world-wide soccer matches, my tv’s highest purpose is to induce my alcohol-and-weed-narcotized eyes to gently close, slowly, one at a time, first the left, then the right…Ah, Lethe, nightly…
b-psycho
If they wanted to seriously try comedy/variety at 10, they should’ve just called up Dave Chappele and offered him a deal where he got to say and do whatever the hell he wanted, with absolutely zero network interference. Fuck Jay, he was funny about 1 out of every 10 times.
As for drama: I like Sons of Anarchy. Anyone else?
Arclite
Maybe HBO will pick up Southland? They seem to have a good track record producing high quality dramas.
Stefan
Maybe HBO will pick up Southland? They seem to have a good track record producing high quality dramas.
Then again, HBO turned down Mad Men. Which is doubly inexplicable bc Anthony Weiner was a writer on The Sopranos.
MBunge
“Then again, HBO turned down Mad Men. Which is doubly inexplicable bc Anthony Weiner was a writer on The Sopranos.”
Or they could have looked at it and said “Well, even if it has a lot of sex and a lot of era-inappropriate swearing…is anyone actually going to watch this thing?”
Mike
Comrade Luke
The weird thing is that they renewed it, then canceled it before the new season’s premier.
NBC is just a mess, and now they have to wait a minimum two years before they can put on anything good at 10:00pm.
Was Silverman bad or what?!
tammanycall
Mad Men still doesn’t have good ratings. (1.9 last week.)
And his name is Matt Weiner.
joe1347
Well, I guess that I’m the only one left in the USA that still likes Leno. Yes, some of the skits are lame, especially the stand-in comics. Although they are much better now than the intial crop. Of course, the A-list Celeb’s are long gone and Leno is quickly working through the B-list guests.
Not sure yet what I think about the electric car challenge. Suspect that Ford is paying a bundle for the spot. Interesting use of advertising dollars (by Ford). Essentially the electric car challenge is a couple minute long Ford advertisement masquerading as entertainment.
Every night there also now seems to be a McDonalds prize giveaway that doesn’t look like a traditional commercial – but more of a ‘segment’ in the show.
Of course that might make one wonder whether the movies that are shamelessly plugged on the Leno show also pay for the movie plug.
So, am I essentially watching an Hour long commercial that I foolishly think is a real TV show?
Bob In Pacifica
I like “Flash Forward”. I like sci-fi that makes you think, and there’s a lot of that in the show. Plus it’s got one of the guys from “Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle”. These kinds of shows, with multiple plotlines, can very easily become soap operas. Still, I’ve watched the first three episodes.
I liked the American version of “Life On Mars” last year. But being a geezer I couldn’t stay awake until ten p.m. to watch all the episodes, so I’m going to Netflix them.
Never saw “Southland” but if it was anything like “The Wire” I’d be in. “The Wire” and “The Sopranos” are the gold standard for tv drama.
ellie
I’m pissed that NBC canceled Life. I loved that show.
Steeplejack
@Shell:
Point noted.
A-Ron
One rule of thumb regarding talk shows: If the host agrees to play himself interviewing a fictitious character in a movie, it is a good indicator that he is a self-aggrandizing sell-out.
This rule has helped me scrupulously avoid anything to do with Larry King, Jay Leno and Chris Matthews.
Batocchio
I wasn’t bowled over by Southland, but only saw two episodes. Boomtown did some great stuff.
Stefan
Or they could have looked at it and said “Well, even if it has a lot of sex and a lot of era-inappropriate swearing…is anyone actually going to watch this thing?”
HBO has a different business model. They don’t need ratings per se since they don’t sell ad time. They make their money on subscription fees, and what drives subscription fees is buzz. Not that many people actually watched The Sopranos, either, but a lot of people talked about it, and that drove a lot of people to subscribe to HBO. Same thing would have happened with Mad Men.
And the swearing’s pretty appropriate to the era.
Mike
1. MBunge is right. I’m so tired of the “___ network is idiots” talking point. Certainly, promotion and schedule placement mattes, and there are examples of shows being neglected or mishandled. But, at the end of the day, it’s about the ratings. NBC has been especially with good with sticking with shows like Friday Night Lights and Chuck that the few people who watched loved. For the business, though, few is the important word.
2. Don’t sully the greatness of Boomtown by mentioning it as a peer to Southland. Boomtown had better actors working with better scripts in a time when that gritty style of video was innovative. Of last year’s late season cop shows, The Unusuals was much more interesting than Southland.