The nutters have now had 24 hours to react to the Nobel Prize. Will they pull themselves together and stop acting like jerks? Will one of the elder statesmen in the party tell them they can’t turn it up to 11 all the time without looking insane? Has anyone figured out in the GOP that while Obama may not deserve the Nobel (and I happen to be one who thinks it was premature and he definitely did not deserve it), the only person you can’t blame for getting the award is Obama?
We shall see.
Christian
Truly, you ask the impossible.
bago
Nobel. Nobel prize.
Kirk Spencer
No. SASQ.
More fully, the ones that make me angrier are the concern trolls. “He should just reject it. That’d be the right thing to do.”
Not only would that not change the minds of these people, they’d then jump all over him for THAT.
At a certain point, the right thing to do is go on with what you’re doing and doing your best to ignore him. It’s like the family at Thanksgiving – you have to let Uncle Rush be there, but as much as possible try ignore the dementia driven conversations and odors from her leaking diaper.
Kirk Spencer
I still miss edit. “… odors from HIS leaking diaper.”
beltane
The Governor of California issued a gracious statement, but I’m not sure he is considered an elder statesman of the party anymore. Limbaugh, the real elder statesman of the party, stands with the Taliban, the same organization that is presently killing our soldiers. Nice.
Really, I think the award was a gift to the American people from the international community in gratitude for not inflicting McCain/Palin on them. To the rest of the world, George W. Bush was like a nuclear-armed Idi Amin, the stuff nightmares are made of. Looked at in this context, mere sanity can be considered prizeworthy.
Beeb
I’m sure there’s something in the Bible about the Nobel Prize proving Obama is the Antichrist. Or if there isn’t, there will be when Conservapedia finishes rewriting it.
cs
My initial reaction to the prize was, like most everyone, “WTF!?!”
But as the Right gets shriller and shriller about it, I’m definitely in the “He deserves it” camp now. Wonder how many other Americans will be like me?
James
What is “deserve” John? The Nobel Committee agreed that he “deserved” it. You can read about their reasoning about why he “deserved” it. And their reasoning wasn’t that it was all about Murkins! We’re Number One! It was mainly an affirmation of America’s, and Obama’s, attempt to change the paradigm of belligerence towards the international community of the Bush Doctrine. Other men in history have received this prize under the very same affirmation, such as Desmond Tutu in our time. Did you grouse that he “didn’t deserve it” too?
I mean, I understand why the rightwingers are going nuts over this. And I understand why the Beltway is so disdainful, because the prize isn’t all about them. Because it is a great honor to receive the Nobel Prize for Peace. What I cannot understand is why normal, sane people can’t be honored that our President’s international vision was affirmed and encouraged by this momentous award. It really saddens me.
Brachiator
Nope. They are committed to this path more deeply than Bush was committed to making Iraq the bad guy after 9/11. They can’t dial it back, because they don’t know how.
They have also succeeded with many non-wingnut conservatives. On Friday I was amazed at how angrily insistent some co-workers were that Obama did not deserve the Nobel Prize. And they insisted on blaming Obama (and the suckers who voted for him) and not the Nobel Committee.
Oh, and these are people in their 20s and 30s.
On NPRs Weekend Edition, I’m hearing that winning the Nobel will not impress our enemies and may make Obama try to play pacifist and thus put our country in danger.
So I look for the double-down: Obama not only did not deserve the Nobel, it is a dangerous win and helps terrorists and rogue nations.
Beauzeaux
There may be certain advantages to them cranking it up to 11 all the time and looking totally insane. Bush and Cheney didn’t make the Republican party toxic to most sentient beings by keeping their insanity quiet and well hidden.
The Grand Panjandrum
I remember seeing a headline somewhere that asked if the Nobel Committe had jumped the shark. My immediate answer was yes, in 1973.
This really has nothing to do with Obama, this has everything to do with Europe. I don’t think Americans realize how dim our star had grown outside our borders. W was our Qaddaffi. A babbling psycho willing to do almost anything for the furtherance of his own cause. The award is a collective sigh of relief coming from northern Europe.
Leelee for Obama
The absolute derangement on display is just mind-blowing. I thought the wingnut horizon had been reached with Scheuer telling Hannity that what we really needed was another terrorist attack here in the US to force the Obama Administration to keep us safe. After that, I just stopped listening to the crazy. The stuff about ACORN, the H1N1 vaccine, internment camps, the Census, the Health Care Reform effort, just completely nuts. There is apparently no outrage volume control on their Wurlitzer, so everything is the end of world as we know it. I didn’t even think this kind of stuff when Cheney and Bush were shitting on the Constitution and acting like Dictators. I always thought we’d come through it; after all, we survived the Civil War, and the Red Scare and the Depression and WW2 and McCarthy, so chances were good we’d make it.
This is just a temper-tot tantrum turned up to eleventy-million. They lost, they hate it, they hate everyone one who caused it and that is that. But, like Bruce Bartlett pointed out a few weeks ago, their fury is directed at the wrong Administration. Don’t know when it ends-but temper-tots exhaust themselves, eventually.
Fingers crossed for sooner rather than later.
James
@Brachiator:
This is going to make their Foreign Policy Manhood go flaccid. That’s what terrifies them.
Lou D. Jones
Rachel Maddow made an eloquent case for why Barack Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize last night. I suggest, before you start channeling your inner Kristol, you head over to MSNBC and see what she said. You will not be saying he doesn’t deserve it ever again.
James
@Lou D. Jones:
YouTube – Rachel Maddow: The Nobel Prize & Obama Derangement Syndrome
Here is the link. It was a great piece. Thanks for reminding.
Karen
I heard Joe Scarborough this morning on the MSNBC news. He said their response is stupid, but they can’t stop it.
I think the award was a backhanded slap at W. Something like “this is how much better Obama is than you”. Much more obvious than the shoe. He didn’t get it.
General Winfield Stuck
It’s a notably noble the notoriety of the Nobel Prize.
Wingnuts dialing back would be like Elvis without hips.
gyma
@James: I agree with you on this one, but I’m afraid we’re in the minority, sad as that is.
Somewhere along the line we’ve come to believe that a Nobel is a lifetime achievement award. Not so, according to the Nobel Committee.
kay
@The Grand Panjandrum:
No, it’s all about the US, because, really, everything is, to listen to us. The Washington Post wonders why the committee didn’t take our political temperature before making the decision. They should consult James Carville prior to awarding anything to an American. The “debate” feels gut-level arrogant to me. Everything under the sun is “about” our political battles. Everything. There is no other possible prism.
“But in offering this latest Euro-celebration of the 2008 election, the Norwegian committee has also demonstrated a certain cluelessness about America. If anything animates Mr. Obama’s critics in this country, it is the impression that he is the focus of a global cult of personality. This prize, at this time, only feeds that impression, and thus does him no favors politically.”
MattF
@James
“Foreign Policy Manhood”. You got it.
SGEW
I’ve been thinking about this a bit . . .
Here’s the question that was on the Nobel Committee’s mind; the requirement from their charter as updated over the years:
They ask “Who was the person who has done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies (including nuclear nonproliferation), for the holding and promotion of peace congresses (including multilateral negotiations for conflict resolution), for poverty reduction and humanitarian effort, and for responsible action on climate change?”
One year ago, in October of 2008, the world’s direction on all of these issues was . . . worrisome. And, let’s face it, many of the worries were primarily because of the U.S.A. Things looks substantially different now. And there’s one individual you can pin a prize on who represents this . . . I have to use the word . . . change.
Al Gore won a prize – not because he actually “did” a tremendous amount about climate change (Obama gives excellent speeches, Gore gave excellent powerpoint presentations) – but because he was the symbolic representative of the movement. Kim Dae-Jung won a prize – not because anything was “done” to solve North-South hostility in Korea (it’s still going on, one notices) – but because he evinced a legitimate and sincere effort towards positive action.
Nuclear disarmament; multilateral (even transnational) cooperation; climate change action. As far as the Nobel committee is concerned (and as far as I’m concerned to some degree), these are the most important issues facing the international community today.
Name one person who has done more to change the world’s direction on these matters during 2009 than President Barack Obama.
donovong
What Lou D. Jones said.
I watched Rachel’s explanation once, then made my wife watch the same portion of the program. Rachel lays it all out in a cogent, rational, thorough way that is completely free of hyperbole.
If I can’t have a pony, can I please have Rachel on MTP every week?
Beeb
Brachiator, with respect, I think “non-wingnut conservative” is an oxymoron. Granted, they come in different flavors of batshit crazy — for example, they aren’t all birthers — but your young co-workers are definitely wingnuts.
gyma
@The Grand Panjandrum: This.
There was a stark contrast last night between the PNN coverage on the NBC evening news and World News Tonight on PBS. The former was filled with winger talking points, the latter was a grown-up analysis.
aimai
No. SATSQ. They can not dial it back, and they won’t dial it back.
Oh, must piggback on this
Jagger without Lips?
A drunk without a Nip?
A fuck without a Zip?
There’s a song in here, somewhere. But I think the right response is the one Attaturk used in describing the Conservepeidia’s demand that we all “accept the logic of hell” and act submit to their angry god.
“Shine on You Crazy Diamonds!”
aimai
Napoleon
@Brachiator:
Curious, do you think your winger co-workers drive off your non-winger coworkers with their insanity?
aimai
sorry, that should be “act accordingly” or “submit to their angry god” not both.
damn this system.
aimai
The Bearded Blogger
Okay… a couple of questions:
1) How long before wingnuts come up with their “own” consolation world jesus price? Something that is to the nobel prize what conservapedia is to wikipedia?
2) Who will propose it?
3) Who will get it?
4) Will they be the same person?
General Winfield Stuck
Although wingers could care less about the Nobel Prize, especially for Peace. But if just one dem is influenced enough to demur and vote yea instead of nay for health care reform because of it, then worthwhile it was.
Anya
John, yesterday I was feeling the same way and thinking that while president Obama changed a lot in terms of the mood in the world they should have waited till he made a mark and lived up to some of the promise. Now I am coming around (watch Rachel Maddow’s segment on the President’s win).
The major reason that made me come around was that I spoke with my cousin (my dad was originally from a little Muslim country so I have relatives who are Muslim in other parts of the world) who is now 20 years old student at the Carnegie Mellon University in Qatar. When he was 16, he was so angry and so anti-American that his parents were so afraid that his anger was going to be exploited by some terrorist group that they watched his every move and spied on him literally. I called him yesterday to get some perspective (he did not know about the award at the time) and he said to me something that astonished me, he said that after President Obama’s speech in Cairo, he started doing some research about America and its history and that while America did some horrible things in the past and had had history with racism, slavery, its treatment of its natives still America was more force of good in the world than evil and that George Bush was not America. I was stunned! If he changed hearts and minds I think he deserved it. He is also a positive influence on the Muslim youth in Europe. I think most of us underestimate how much George Bush fucked up the world.
The award as the president said has been used in the past to give momentum to a cause. I thought his speech was great by the way.
Finally, I know I shouldn’t but I am astonished by the level of craziness on the right. My god, every time I think they could not sink any lower, they somehow manage to surprise me again.
beltane
@kay: Like the simpering courtiers of the 18th century, the Washington media establishment cannot comprehend anything beyond their petty cocktail party intrigue. They are shocked, utterly shocked, that Cokie Roberts and George Will are not, in fact, on the Nobel Peace Prize committee.
If you imagine Mark Halperin and the rest of them wearing powdered wigs and beauty patches, it all makes a lot more sense.
Robertdsc-iphone
That’s a great cartoon.
I think the Prez is going to keep doing what he’s doing. I don’t look forward to the mocking from folks on the left, however. Just something to wince over & read past, I guess.
Brick Oven Bill
Now that we’ve found out that the globe has actually been cooling for, like, a decade, does Al Gore have to give his money back?
John Cole
So wait a minute… Just because I think it was a bit early to award Obama the Nobel, I’m Bill Kristol?
JGabriel
Leelee for Obama:
Not if the Clinton administration is anything to go by. A right-wing militant bombed a federal facility, and when the blood sacrifice wasn’t enough to appease their hatred, the conservatives impeached Clinton over a blow job.
.
Dr. I. F. Stone
Just the usual silly nonsense here in this post/comment thread. A very substantial number of liberals also think the award was absurd at this point in his Presidency. Thus far he’s accomplished virtually nothing other than serial disparagement of his country when traveling abroad, giving in to almost all thugs in charge of other countries, standing by with no comment while Iran tramples on its people protesting a fraudulent election, etc., etc.
Brachiator
@Beauzeaux:
Unfortunately, this may push people to take sides. I’m not sure how many people will be horrified by the Republicans, and how many will give into their anger and fear and join them. I think that more will be horrified, but the GOP just needs enough to help them continue to rationalize their stubborn opposition to Obama.
One of the biggest delusions of liberals is that sentient beings make wise choices.
Leelee for Obama — Don’t know when it ends-but temper-tots exhaust themselves, eventually.
The problem is that these are adults, not toddlers. And the ways that adults act out can be terrible.
SGEW
@John Cole: Who said that?
(tho’ the “consistently wrong since . . .” label might cause some confusion for some – truly, it’s a much more appropriate label for Bill “I’ve Never Been Right!” Kristol than for this blog, imho)
JGabriel
John Cole:
Nah, I think the phrasing “he definitely did not deserve it” is just a little too blunt or dismissive. I thought it was a bit early too, and maybe he didn’t deserve it yet, but I wouldn’t say “definitely didn’t” — especially since I think he will deserve it eventually, and the “definitely” kind of implies that he won’t.
.
General Winfield Stuck
@SGEW:
I think Cole might have od’d on huffing that vapo rub, I can find no reference of a Kristol comparison.
kay
@beltane:
I was curious if MLK Jr.’s win had a political element. I’m not comparing his with Obama’s, I don’t know why they chose Obama, and I feel as if I don’t have to know. They never consult me.
But, it did. This is James Fallows, on the reaction to MLK’s win in Fallow’s small, conservative hometown:
“But the stated form of the objection concerned not King’s race but his obnoxiousness as a man. He was a windbag. He was pompous and self-dramatizing, He was holier than thou. Plus, he had started getting involved where he didn’t belong, in raising questions about the Vietnam War. Through the rest of Martin Luther King’s life, the father of my best home-town friend always went out of his way to refer sneeringly to “Martin Luther Nobel.”
Fallow’s wrote it when Gore won, because he was sort of despairing at what is today bothering me: is there an American who could win this prize where it would not be viewed through a political prism? I don’t know. What does that say about us, though?
matoko_chan
I don’t see what the rage-ravers are so butthurt about.
Concern troll–>
That is crazy-ass teabagger concern troll speak. The Nobel Committee has NOTHING to do with O’s campaign promises to the ‘Merican electorate. They can give THEIR prize to whoever THEY feel best advances their agenda…WORLD PEACE.
The teabaggers are already at 1500 db.
So what?
That is the dumbest thing evah….we should avoid antagonizing crazy people because it makes them crazier????
Roger Moore
@beltane:
Definitely not, at least in California. He’s widely regarded as a RINO, since he believes in things like cooperating with the Democrats when they have ideas that would benefit the state as a whole.
General Winfield Stuck
Now wait a sec. Cole’s definitely didn’t deserve it phrase was premised because it was too early, not by itself.
demkat620
Well this guy was on CNN last night to say that the Nobel committee gave it to Obama because they know he is a weak president and they like that, Bush didn’t get it because he was so strong.
I thought David Gergen’s head was going to explode from the stupidity.
drillfork
Love Maddow, but it’s Glenzilla who has this right:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/09/obama/index.html
Brachiator
@Dr. I. F. Stone:
The difference is that even liberals who disagree with Obama winning aren’t going nuts about it.
Yawn. This is just nonsense. Obama hasn’t given in to anyone, nor can conservatives who push this lie point to anything that a president McCain might have done differently except make more belligerent speeches than Obama.
And other than standing by while Iran unfortunately trample on people, there is little that anyone in the West can do, apart from the typical secret back channel stuff that no one can admit to in public.
Svensker
@John Cole:
Come to think of it… Have we ever seen pictures of you and Bill Kristol together? I thought not. Indeed, have we ever seen pictures of you, at all? (A knee doesn’t count.)
So answer the question, Cole. Are you Bill Kristol?
geg6
John, I have to say that I have mixed feelings over this honor for Obama. I also feel it is a bit too soon in my eyes. However, my eyes don’t get a vote. Knowing the history of many previous NPP winners and reading the rules of the committee, in addition to putting myself into a more international/European mindset, I can respect the choice. I am truly happy to see that some people in the world still want America to be a leader and an example. That really is a huge achievement, simply to give others in the world faith in America again. He’s not everything we want him to be. But he is who he purported to be, a fundamentally decent, intelligent, moderate liberal who is cautious but determined to put things right, one at a time.
Comrade Mary
Lou D. Jones in #14:
I don’t think John deserves that comparison (not just yet, anyway — hey, OUCH! Joke! Joke!)
But I am in the “on second thought, this isn’t such a crazy award” camp. This Globe & Mail article is another summary of that view.
Also.
EDIT: Woo-hoo! Safari for Windows lets me edit!
Omnes Omnibus
@SGEW: Exactly.
James
@gyma:
Well, no one thought that before, really. Only now that the honor has been bestowed on Obama, and through him, us Americans, all of a sudden the Beltway has decided that it is a lifetime achievement award. Like induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame, I guess. And jeez, you know, in nine whole months Obama STILL hasn’t had his 7th no-hitter or his 5,000 strikeout. What’s up with THAT?
Parole Officer Burke
@Dr. I. F. Stone:
[Pray excuse me. I believe that engaging with trolls can sometimes be a legitimate pedagogical exercise for the edification of the community at large.]
So let’s see . . .
Abandoning jingoism, unilateralism, and pathological exceptionalism while displaying pride in and making the case for his nation’s unique accomplishments = “Serial disparagement of his country”
Multilateral negotiations, diplomacy, and abiding by international law = “Giving in to almost all thugs”
Publicly denouncing Iran’s “violent and unjust actions” = “Standing by with no comment”
I think that you might have a problem with how you characterize things – the words you’re using don’t actually describe the corresponding events. Perhaps you are thinking of other matters; matters that nobody else knows about? (What “thugs”? That’s just strange)
Otherwise, your “etc., etc.” is left doing a lot of work.
JGabriel
Brick Oven Bill:
Really, BOB? The globe has been cooling for a decade? Then why was our hottest summer since 1936 only 3 years ago? Why was the Northwest Passage open in 2007 (Note that link is to the NYSun, a noted Conservative paper, so you can’t complain of liberal bias there), instead of 1997?
Why did this decade show the greatest recorded thinning of Arctic sea ice?
You’re a malinformed tool, BOB.
.
The Bearded Blogger
@beltane: It’s also quite fun! A powdered tweety fanning himself and yawning with an affected gesture… priceless…
@Brachiator:
That sounds like it should be etched in a bronze plate and hung somewhere… I think individuals have a sort of decency threshold that they reach at a certain point in time… It was low for the likes of Jeffords and Chafee, a bit higher for someone like Hagel, etc… what’s left of the GOP obviously has a huge threshold, but I think a small amount of goopers will be disgusted by the antiamerican cheering, the overt violence etc…
James
@John Cole:
Nowhere did I accuse you of being Bill Kristol. I put you into the category of “normal, sane people.” But I really would like to know why you contend that Obama “didn’t deserve” it, when the judges of the committee obviously thought he DID deserve it. And I am asking you this in the context of the historical awarding of the Nobel Prize for Peace. Please go to the Maddow link for a li’l history refresher. It certainly helped me.
General Winfield Stuck
@Comrade Mary:
Well I missed that, so stand corrected. Not accurate Mr. Jones.
General Winfield Stuck
@Dr. I. F. Stone:
Your wingnut talking points are showing dude.
kay
@demkat620:
I saw that. I honestly do not know why every Republican has to parrot the “world is a dangerous place” line and state the freaking obvious: that the prize doesn’t change that. “Get out. Really? Here I was, thinking all conflict had ended.”
How stupid do they think Americans are? Did you start weaving daisy chains yesterday? They give people zero credit for the most basic assumptions.
“Obama has not, in fact, brought peace to the mideast”. That was the UK conservative, with a breaking news update.
General Winfield Stuck
This thread is giving me a headache first thing Sat. morning.
Peter J
I believe peak wingnuttia is a myth. The coming days will prove me right.
Jay C
1. What “elder statesmen”??
2. No.
Why should they? Cranked-to-eleven looney-tunes plays well to the “base”, gets them on the news – a lot – and stokes up the perpetual-outrage machine which is so helpful in funding their campaigns. What’s not to like?
What I find fascinating is the subtext of so much of the loonier right-wing criticism of Obama’s NPP award. Apparently, the more foreign nations/organizations express their admiration for President Obama and/or the US, the more the wingnuts take it as evidence (absolute proof, to many of them) that Obama’s foreign policies are “failures” or “embarrassments” – or, in not a few estimations, “capitulations to the terrorists”. The attitude seems to be a kind of weird inverse of the old Soviet Union’s supposed bedrock foreign-policy principle: other countries can only be either clients or enemies; and the
MotherlandHomeland has to act accordingly….The Bearded Blogger
@Dr. I. F. Stone: neener. Neener. Neener.
@Svensker: Kristol’s sillyputtylike countenance makes him seem like he could morph into any shape… like an annoying dumb yet condescending version of that blue x-women… so there’s THAT
Lupin
As an expat living in Europe, I feel compelled to say that Obama’s decision to cancel the inane and criminally stupid Bush-era missile defense shield on the Russian border, and thus restoring good relations to Russia, was widely reported here and greatly appreciated. I have yet to see one American pundit note this.
Also, Nobel Peace Prizes are often awarded for symbolic or ideological reasons, not actual achievements, e.g.: Arafat/Rabin, Kissinger/LeDucTho, Gorbachev, etc.
I’m not normally an enthusiastic supporter of Obama, but in this instance, I believe the award is justified and I’m very glad he was the recipient.
Brachiator
@Napoleon:
Curiously, there used to be a fun interchange of ideas, both in conversation and in an unofficial political email thread. Now the most committed conservatives will skulk off by themselves and make disparaging remarks about Obama and the Democrats, but refuse to engage anyone else. They are looking for re-enforcement and validation of their views, not an an engagement with reality.
Once, one claimed something ridiculous about some topic, and when I pointed out the facts, and provided links, this guy went to Malkin’s site and came back with something even more foolish. I replied with a direct refutation of Malkin’s stuff. Since then, this guy just seeks out those who might agree with him.
drillfork — Love Maddow, but it’s Glenzilla who has this right
Glenzilla makes some points, but ultimately is a tiresome fool. You can always tell these types when they simplistically call for an end to the war in Afghanistan, since this is not the same thing as achieving peace.
Corner Stone
@Brachiator:
There is no such animal.
The Bearded Blogger
@Jay C: On number 2:
Wingnuts think that only zero sum games exist… that is, nothing can be good for both A and B; alway’s Bs loss will be As gain and vice-versa. That is why they don’t like anything that helps minorities, they automatically think that it will hurt them. Same with healthcare. That’s why they think that the approval of the World means that the president is doing something wrong.
Another consequence of this mindset, is that they think a policy is good for the sole reason that it pisses off the hippies…
donovong
@John Cole: Um, no. Obama himself said that he didn’t feel that he deserved it. Just asking for some perspective, and Rachel provided it in spades last night.
Silver Owl
After reading the committee’s site they award the Nobel Peace Prize not just for “accomplishing” but for striving and putting things in motion in order to achieve peaceful solutions to serious issues. It is used to give affirmation to a nation/group for their goals. Striving to get the United States back in the ball game rather than sitting on the sidelines eating dirt is a very respectable goal.
I’m not really sure why people are upset with the committee for doing what they have always done. It is their criteria, their analysis, their goals and their award.
I think most Americans think of the Nobel Peace Prize more along the lines of bowling trophy or the Stanley cup. Which is not how the committee views it.
Corner Stone
@Brachiator:
I enjoy doing this very thing all the time. But just wait – 6 months from now he’s going to float that exact same debunked factoid again like it’s true and he’ll never recollect it was false.
I think I’m on round 3 or maybe 4 of debunking the whole “Nancy Pelosi asked for a hooooge special plane cuz she’s a wastrel of tax payer $$$!” with the same person.
It’s like clockwork.
The Bearded Blogger
@Brachiator: Want to stop getting email from annoying relatives? Refute them, and send the response to all recipients. It’s worked twice for me.
Corner Stone
@The Bearded Blogger: Or IOW: IGMFU.
James
@Lupin: Is that you, from days of yore in the Eschaton threadery? I occasionally wondered, after you emigrated, if you and your wife made a happy and successful life abroad. Glad to see you did. My best to you.
kay
@Lupin:
Nor will you, because that’s a direct contradiction of the Right’s position, and we can’t “take sides” in our press, because reporting something positive might be perceived as unfair, or “partisan”.
Either everyone agrees it’s good, or it’s not worth spending time on. That’s “fair”.
Napoleon
@The Bearded Blogger:
You have that exactly right.
Corner Stone
@Svensker: ISTM to these are all fair questions.
nepat
What’s up with this fixation on “deserving to win?” He won, so clearly the folks who awarded him found him deserving. I think that’s all that matters.
What you’re really trying to say is that Obama doesn’t deserve to win the Balloon Juice Peace Prize, and since only you know the criteria to be met, I’ll have to agree.
This “deserving” charge has echoes of Erick Erickson’s ugly Affirmative Action comments from yesterday. To the right, Obama never really deserves anything but scorn. All of his achievements are just accidents of his race. Remember, he didn’t deserve to be president either.
Svensker
@Brachiator:
Well, that depends on what your view of the world is, doesn’t it? If you think it’s our job to “make peace” in the world, even if that means at the point of a gun, then just calling for an end to a stupid war is indeed “simplistic”. However, if you believe we have no business nation building in places we don’t understand and butting our noses into other countries’ business, then calling for an end to dumb wars is simply pragmatic and patriotic (not that I think uber-patriotism is a good thing).
Somehow, calling for people not to fight is always “simplistic” — which is bad.
Whereas calling for our country to set up outposts all around the globe, having our people fighting in countries we do not understand and where we don’t belong, spending trillions on a chimerical peace at the point of a bomb — that does indeed seem very complicated. Maybe that’s why so many folks consider it sophisticated and “good.”
Corner Stone
@aimai:
For some reason it made perfect sense to me in the original post.
Maybe because it’s normal in TX to use two verbs back to back.
tc125231
@cs: I, for one, have exactly the same opinion. Even trying to purue peace with the current combination of right wing lunatics, opportunists, and MSM cowards in tow is an achievement of note.
SGEW
@Brachiator:
Glenn Greenwald is nobody’s fool. You might disagree with his ultimate conclusions, his political rhetoric, or his dogged choice of emphasis, but his facts and analysis are consistently correct, his motives and objectives are tremendously admirable, and he is perhaps the most intellectually consistent, non-hypocritical blogger around, ever (Larison might make this list; Taibbi too, maybe). I believe that his voice is essential, even if (or especially if) one disagrees with him.
Whether or not his purist, legalistic take on matters is effective or not (or even realistic at all), I would argue that it is not a simplistic analysis; it has a great deal of nuance in the details, and has certainly been crafted and defended with a great deal of intellectual rigor.
And perhaps he is tiresome (reading his blog sometimes literally exhausts me), but is that so bad?
kay
@Silver Owl:
I think it’s perfectly valid to have a personal opinion, pro or con. That’s different than relying on whatever benchmarks the committee uses.
I do object to complaining that the award was politically motivated, then using it as a political cudgel, and pretending you’re relying on objective criteria, for what has to be a personal subjective assessment, again, if you’ve departed from committee criteria. I don’t think Cole is doing that. His assessment is opinion, and he’s not pretending otherwise.
tc125231
@Svensker: This is a good post. I might also note –as Bracevich has written extensively on –that we can no longer really afford these “trappings of empire”.
James
@Silver Owl:
Yep, if it is along the lines of a bowling trophy, then John’s right. Obama definitely didn’t deserve it.
But isn’t rather ungracious of Americans to grouse about how “undeserving” our President is of such an honor? He should “give it back”? He “hasn’t done anything”? Just the ungracious, arrogant face of the Ugly American. Another big slap in the face to the international community.
How DARE you bestow this prestigious award on our undeserving President??!!?? He hasn’t DONE anything to deserve it!!!! How STUPID you are for giving it to him!!!
Isn’t that what you all are saying?
Corner Stone
@SGEW:
I sometimes wonder if he gets paid by the word because there is no way he’s growing an audience with his lengthy diatribes.
So I’ll say, yes that is bad.
Leelee for Obama
To those who reminded me that the Clinton Era never exhausted the wingnuts, or that these are adults acting out, not toddlers, I stand corrected. I still think this hysteria will wind down, not sure why. Maybe because there were eight years between the two Presidents wherein even some wingnuts were disobliged by something. Wonder what that was? There is 27% or so American people who will be like this no matter what good Obama or any other Democratic President would do. But that doesn’t make them powerful, unless we let them become so by ducking when they swing. Alan Grayson has been giving lessons in what to do-we should watch and model our behavior after that.
John Cole
Look- I’m fine with him getting the award, and I understand the logic that ‘the judges say he deserves it, so he deserves it.” I, on the other hand, think it was premature. Premature to the point of being silly.
Now you all can disagree with me, that is fine, but claiming you have some deep insight that I do not have on this (I’ve read all the justifications, I saw Rachel, etc.) and then telling me I am just channeling my inner Kristol pisses me off.
And for the record, I know a pretty prominent liberal who was unsure whether Obama deserved this award:
I kind of take the guy at his word. If you think it was just him saying what he had to say, I guess you are more cynical than I am.
GregB
The simple fact that President Obama hasn’t taken a swing at Boehner, called McCain and Palin a douchebag-duo or sicced the IRS on Glenn Beck and Rush Limpud is proof that the man is of a higher order.
Give him the effin medal and stop whining.
-G
P.S. yes McCain was very gracious towards Obama on this matter…but he still needs to do lots of pennance over his “That one!” crack.
demimondian
@Brachiator: That’s interesting. My employer isn’t a good place to find “real” conservatives to talk to; the place is ideologically libertarian, in both the best and worst senses. However, the one or two I’d found have stopped talking politics with me; they find it painful.
[shrug] I understand, and I sympathize. The evidence is what it is, and the numbers are what they are. These folks are engineers, and they know that, so they’re being forced to either find ever-more-tortured reasons to defend the indefensible or accept that some of their *ideals* were wrong. I’m reminded of the academic left in this country when the real failures of communism started being incontrovertibly exposed — the response was equally pained.
Eventually, these folks or their children will schism. Some will move forward and accept that there is a need for a more just economy, and that we all benefit from it, just as there are wing-nut conservatives of the generation after mine are genuinely puzzled by the racism and homophobia of their elders. Others won’t — and they’ll eventually get thrown out by a bunch of sneering goo-goo types.
And the sneering goo-goo types will win elections against (by then) corrupt Dems.
Davis X. Machina
Bingo.
It’s more like the Baseball Hall of Fame. Bill James will tell you that Fred Lindstrom, Lloyd Waner, George Kelly, Roger Bresnahan, et al. weren’t badballplayers, but they’re only in the Hall because that’s how the BWAA and especially the Veterans Committee roll.
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
Sadly, this is true.
I recall one issue. The guy was slinging typical glibertarian/Chamber of Commerce BS that government regulation and interfering in markets always has a negative impact on business.
Now, I’m a bit of a science and technology nerd and had saved the obit of Carl Keith, the inventor of the three-way catalytic converter. His invention allowed the auto industry to cheaply clean up auto exhaust, in response to government regulation.
A tidbit from Keith’s NY Times obituary:
By the way, this is also a rebuke to some anti-technology liberals.
But sure enough, my co-worker keeps on with the rebunking, insisting that gummint regulations are always bad and that the free market, Republican style, is our only salvation.
And the guy avoids me, because he knows that I will insist that he provides factual examples to support his ideology, and he knows that he can’t do it. He just says that I am a better debater, but that he is right. Because, well, just because dammit.
(as an aside, Corner, I have a post in the last open thread agreeing with your points on food and kids)
p.a.
There’s no ’11’, no stop pin. That dial just keeps a-spinnin’. I think the leaders, politicians and ‘pundits’ on the right, are just cynical power hungry liars. But I’m still flabbergasted that after 30 years of this bullshit millions still believe it hook, line, sinker. Maybe that’s more a comment on me than them. Guess I have to start believing the ‘Alan Keyes 27%’ theory on the American polity. Direct line from ‘fluoridated water is a communist conspiracy’ to now. Sheesh.
ironranger
Rightwingers will believe anything, no matter how ludicrous & tin foil hattery Fox & company tell them. They are having gigantic purple-faced, kicking, snot-bawling temper tantrums.
Man oh man, do we need health care, physical & mental, for all in this country.
JenJen
The cartoon pretty much nails it.
The Bearded Blogger
@John Cole: I thought it was weird too, and while I acknowledge the reasons for it being given to Obama, I think it would have been prudent, at least, to wait a while (eg. with a war in Afghanistan going on). But I’m not part of the nobel committee…
The important thing is to separate the ungratiousness of grudging the president a recognition of achievement with the judgment that such a recognition might have been somewhat unwarranted.
BDeevDad
Didn’t President McCain say it was a good thing for the country?
General Winfield Stuck
OT
President DeMented goes to Honduras.
So elected leftists are usurpers, and a little coup before the next election is Okee dokee cause the current presnit can’t run anyways.
Somebody needs to throw a net over this dumb traitorous cracker ass motherfucker.
James
@John Cole:
No deep insight. Yes. Obama was self-deprecating about having been awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace, and he graciously accepted it as an affirmation and a “call to action.” Most people accepting awards of that magnitude, if they have any class at all, are similarly self-deprecating. I don’t think I’m being “cynical” in making that observation.
Obama didn’t vote this for himself, the wingnuts and the beltway act as if he did, and the award is HIS fault. That is preposterous. I’m not saying that’s what YOU are saying.
I’m just saying, it is profoundly ungracious and insulting for Americans to reject and ridicule this international prize for peace (efforts) on the grounds that their (own) President “didn’t deserve it.” Profoundly ungracious. That’s what saddens me. That we as Americans are so arrogantly oblivious to what the international community thinks about us that we insult the giving of this honor in this way.
BDeevDad
Does anyone even read the standards:
I’d say Obama has already done much for fraternity between nations
kay
@BDeevDad:
He did. Elected Republicans turned it down to the point of “off”, from what I heard.
I think they have completely lost control of the Becks and Limbaughs.
The radio and cable screamers are the deregulated personal profit-based sector of the Right, as opposed to the “dependent on voters” sector, and they’re as out of control as any of their other unregulated profit centers. As long as they’re making money, there is no “off” switch.
Brick Oven Bill
Re: “…dumb traitorous cracker ass motherfucker.”
Re: Fraternity Between Nations
Honduran Constitution, Article 239
No citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President.
Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform, as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years.
General Winfield Stuck is the dumb one. Zelaya supported the reform of Article 239, and thus was to immediately cease in his function. The Honduran military supported and defended the Honduran Constitution, and this is what our Nobel Peace Prize winning President is so worried about.
The Honduran precedent scares either him, or more likely, his more situtationally aware keepers. Perhaps he will have Americorps fly him to get his much deserved Nobel Peace Prize.
RandomChick
OT, but I saw folks were asking about a memorial fund to help out Bill Sparkman’s (KY census worker) son.
I found an interview with Josh Sparkman at LEX18.
I think I’ll send a little something along.
Corner Stone
@John Cole:
That should strike thru *liberal* and replace with *Democrat* because Obama is not a liberal. Period.
Steeplejack
@Kirk Spencer:
I still miss edit.
I was gonna say. “Uncle Rush . . . her diaper. Hmm, interesting family.”
LD50
@matoko_chan:
Yeah, it’s not like the wingnuts can hang that particular threat over our heads anymore.
JK
@General Winfield Stuck:
Honduras can keep Jim DeMint. South Carolina deserves better.
Elie
The award was “deserved”. The American reaction to being “deserved” or not is beyond curious. It actually reveals our deep estrangement from the heart of all the values that we say that we admire – working towards freedom, belief in upholding decency, fairness and peace. That these values are ALWAYS a work in progress. That we lead through the integrity of always working in that direction.
Instead, we see and hear the screaming taunts of resentment and anger – contempt. Why so much intensity?
Because the landscape is changing back to something that was almost completely and deliberately killed in this country…to honor and respect for due process and peace. Some people are scared of reordering their inner psychology away from the social Darwinism of the strong deserving to suppress the weak. That is where from Reagan to Bush we were living.
The blood is returning to the deadenned limb of the American people as lovers and promoters of peace and power through engagement with the world and each other..to the limb of sharing versus selfish exploitation for its own sake. If you have ever had your hand warm up again after frostbite, you are familiar with this pain….
To me the screams that I hear from the right and from some on the left, who want a bench clearing brawl to deal with our issues, are truly screams of pain….
I’m glad
matoko_chan
/sigh
probably a lot of other people got this, but here’s mine.
Dr. Cole……it simply isn’t a WTF moment, no matter how much the butthurt brigade try to spin it.
It is a FTW moment.
;)
Emma
BOB, so help me God if I hear you support a military coup against the legitimately elected president of the United States I am going to find a way to drop you into the worst little cesspool in Africa or Latin America with nothing but a change of clothes.
Just Some Fuckhead
This is a slap in the face to all the other Nobel Peace Prize winners. The selection committee really threw Nelson Mandela under the bus.
ilsita
It would be a funner day for me, if, the day before the NPP award, I hadn’t told my teabagging mom that I love her, but could she please stop spamming me every minute of the day, starting now — after she told me that my support of healthcare reform, means that I wanted her to “take a pain pill and go die.”
I have to admit that I’d love to see her reaction to the award. If only I’d waited just one day to shut down her little FWD Button operation!
ilsita
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Mom?
georgia pig
@John Cole: Obama is simply being gracious, like he usually is. Just because others may deserve it more doesn’t mean Obama doesn’t deserve it. What mystifies me is that a bunch of the commentary I’ve seen over the last day is Americentric and narrowly focused on pet issues currently before us.
Barack Obama the individual has accomplished a helluva lot. I hear all kinds of crap about “this is just a rejection of George Bush”, etc. Look, George Bush got re-elected in 2004, despite his myriad fuckups, so I guess the prize is a rejection of the nitwits that elected him and the apathetic fucks that let that happen. The Democratic Party couldn’t find its ass with both hands. Europe and the rest of world was ready to wash their hands of us, and us includes both republicans and democrats. Maybe we should look at the award as “congratulations for finally coming to your senses.”
When did that start to happen? Partly, it was when a young state senator from Illinois gave an inspiring speech about “not a red America, not a blue America, but a United States of America” and later went forward with the same inspiration to challenge a well-known political giant who everyone in the Village thought was a shoo-in. He beat her while retaining her as one of his closest allies, and that meant we didn’t have to have a replay of the soap opera of the 90’s, which, if you may remember, ended with Bush sitting in the White House. While now we’re subject to nonsense like death panels and ACORN, it beats endless blowjob and haircut stories from the Villagers. In the space of a few months, he has helped totally transformed the world image of the United States. Americans are no longer viewed as torturing Iraqis in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
I’m not saying worship everything that Obama does, because he does fuck up and often dissapoints, and there are a lot of others who can also take credit. But give the guy his due. Maybe the Nobel committee is objective enough to do that.
PK
Especially since Obama is thinking of sending additional troops to a war zone. Obama absolutely does not deserve the prize. At the same time there is no downside to it, and it’s good to see the the US get some respect after eight yrs of international contempt.
Finally the most important upside is that one day Limbaugh may actually have a coronary live on air. I’m all for any good news that leads to a hasty exit for that fat moron.
Demo Woman
Yesterday I saw Luckovich’s cartoon early in the morning. At first I thought it was over the top but as the day wore on and the right wing attacked President Obama, it did not seem over the top at all.
I’m not qualified to debate whether or not President Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. Rachel made several interesting points though. I do know that I’m pleased that our standing in the world improved dramatically after the election. Peace and diplomacy are American values and we should all be proud for our country.
Brachiator
@Svensker:
This is not what I mean at all.
“Nation-building” is empty rhetoric. Sometimes we can help a country establish or re-establish itself (South Korea, Japan), but most times we can’t. There is no rule about when you roll the dice and when you don’t. But this is not the sole issue.
The Taleban are vile, backwards, evil goons. Whether we are there or not, they will seek to impose themselves on the country. Our leaving will not end the fighting in any way, shape or form. They will kill women again if they succeed. The wild card is whether they have any real strength to threaten Pakistan. I don’t know and frankly have read very few Western analysts who have a freaking clue.
If you want to go for hard-core realpolitik, then you could say that the only thing that matters is that the Taleban agree to not give a safe-haven to Al-Queda or other terrorists (or let us bribe them into agreeing to this). However, their fundamentalism is as nutty as our worse evangelicals, so I don’t know that they would agree to this.
On the other hand, ramping up the war is a fools-errand. The warrior castes of Afghanistan are like Klingons; they coalesce to fight outsiders and, like those in certain areas of Pakistan, resist all efforts to fold them into any national entity.
No easy answers.
And I give points to the commie North Vietnamese who forcefully rolled into Cambodia and stopped the Khmer Rouge in the late 70s, while people in the West sat back and wrung their hands and did nothing. Sadly enough, the Khmer Rouge even were allowed to keep their UN seat for a while and Britain’s Margaret Thatcher even praised them.
Finally other nations, including the US, meddled in Cambodia and today, there is some some peace and stability in the country.
Every country will pursue its own national interest. We could pull out of every country we are in, get rid of all our nukes. And someone will fill that vacuum. The population of India and Pakistan cheered when their countries got the bomb. Why do you think that is?
SGEW — You might disagree with his ultimate conclusions, his political rhetoric, or his dogged choice of emphasis, but his facts and analysis are consistently correct, his motives and objectives are tremendously admirable, and he is perhaps the most intellectually consistent, non-hypocritical blogger around, ever (Larison might make this list; Taibbi too, maybe). I believe that his voice is essential, even if (or especially if) one disagrees with him.
I agree with you and stand by my remarks. He is a tiresome fool at times, but this is not the same thing as being an idiot who should be dismissed.
Steeplejack
@ilsita:
Heh. And, hey, there’s no reason you can’t spam your mom with some Obama-love links.
JK
@James:
This is just Act One. From now until the end of his first term, Chuck Todd, Mark Halperin, and the rest of the gang of idiots will be second guessing every foreign policy decision Obama makes and questioning his true motives. Every foreign policy crisis will now generate op-eds and tv segments speculating on how much Obama’s decision making is being guided by his Nobel Peace Prize.
trollhattan
Very amused a winger is co-opting I.F. Stone’s moniker. Here’s a randomly selected blog post by I.F. Stone’s granddaughter. Frealz.
http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2009/10/beck-maccardle-easterbrook-will-and-tom.html
Begone, fakey winger person.
GregB
Sounds like Bloomberg should have been arrested for the doing the same thing as Zelaya.
Rudy Giuliani entertained the idea too.
Traitors!
-G
trollhattan
I understand bOb loves pie.
Brick Oven Bill
The fuel efficiency of a 747 is five gallons per mile. The distance between Washington DC and Oslo, Norway is 3811 miles. The price of aviation fuel is $4.40/gallon. There will be three 747s plus support aircraft, assume a 50% surcharge. Therefore, falling back on the Liberal Art of Arithmetic, we conclude that the cost of fuel for the President’s trip will be:
(3 * 3811 * 2 * 5 * $4.40) * 1.5 = $754,578
One ton of aviation fuel creates approximately 3.2 tons of carbon dioxide. One ton of aviation fuel is the rough equivalent of 31.75 gallons, therefore, again using the Liberal Art of Arithmetic, the President’s trip to Oslo will create:
((3 * 3811 * 2 * 5 * (1/31.75) * 3.2) * 1.5 = 17,285 tons of carbon dioxide
“I swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
Because of this Oath, it would be completely inappropriate for the military to unseat a Constitutionally-elected President Emma. Chill out.
geg6
Corner Stone: I must disagree. Obama IS a liberal. He’s not a DFH liberal or a fire in the belly liberal, but he’s a liberal. He’s not big on confrontation; that’s not how he rolls. He thinks that big changes must be somewhat gradual, not all at once. He is cautious, not reckless. That doesn’t make him a conservative or even totally moderate. His way of operating is actually more likely to get things done. It isn’t to everyone’s satisfaction and it’s not what I’d prefer, but I truly believe that his ideals are not so far from mine. It’s his way of trying to achieve them that is so frustrating to so many of us. But I don’t question his underlying liberalism. I don’t think that’s fair to him. YMMV.
gwangung
To the right, I think that’s the ONLY way to make peace.
Dr. I. F. Stone
Glenn Greenwald is nobody’s fool.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Interesting note: People are having a similar (though far quieter) reaction to the recipient of the Nobel Prize of Literature. “What? I’ve never heard of her! Why did they pick her??”
It seems that at the end of the day what’s bugging a lot of people is the idea that once a year, a private group out of Scandinavia reminds the people of the world that their opinions count for squat.
@The Bearded Blogger: I’ve been expecting the Reagan Patriot Awards since the flame out over Gore & Co. This should push them over the edge.
Corner Stone
@Brachiator:
I remember watching the destruction of buddhist art in 2001
and just wondering what kind of messed up motherfuckers would dynamite something created in the 6th century when it hurt no one?
I know Westeners have committed their own perversions (book burning, Witch hunting, Mac commercials), but this just broke my heart at the time.
Chad N Freude
@Dr. I. F. Stone: You disgrace the name of I. F. Stone. I don’t believe that Stone would have said any of the stuff you spouted. If you want to continue to spew this nonsense, please choose a different handle.
Corner Stone
@geg6: My mileage does vary. Specifically, I don’t necessarily *want* him to be a liberal. I’m just tired of people claiming he is one when all actions throughout his elected life prove otherwise.
His votes, words (primaries moving forward) and most importantly actions all speak to his centrism, and in most cases to his slightly rightish centrist nature.
We can infer onto him his ideals by what he says, but what he does tells us more about him.
If in 3 years time he’s played the long game everyone always praises him for, and pushed through or even championed but failed more liberal acts then I’ll be more than happy to admit he got me. But based on all observable evidence to this point, I can see no way for anyone to conclude he is a liberal.
ilsita
@Steeplejack:
Oh, do not doubt that I have! There’s no way in. I know when to fold ’em.
Chad N Freude
@Corner Stone:
The same kind of messed up motherfuckers who insist that a cross on US government-owned land is not a religious symbol so that the cross can remain in place to insult everyone who is not an evangelical Christian. It’s all about the Only True Religion(tm).
Brick Oven Bill
JGabriel says:
“Really, BOB? The globe has been cooling for a decade?…
You’re a malinformed tool, BOB.”
Here is the reactionary right leaning BBC: What happened to Global Warming? An article from just yesterday!
“This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998. But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.”
The BBC does not note that the Globe is actually cooling, which it is. But, hey.
Therefore I conclude that:
1. The Nobel Committee is not smart; and
2. Al Gore should give his money back.
JK
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
Days before the announcement, I saw some articles in the Guardian giving odds on the winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature. Someone over at Complete Review correctly predicted Herta Muller. Over the years, I’ve read plenty of criticism for the glaring omissions among the recipients of this award such as James Joyce, Marcel Proust, Franz Kafka, and Graham Greene.
Chad N Freude
The world gives an esteemed award to the POTUS and the right wing is angered by it. Presumably, an honor given to the US by non-US countries only counts if it is extracted by force. Instead of pride that the rest of the civilized world appreciates the leader of the country and expresses gratitude, even if it’s only positive hope for the future, they express anger and disdain. These people are truly unpatriotic.
JK
@Dr. I. F. Stone: @Chad N Freude:
I second Chad N Freude. Why do you feel compelled to drag I. F. Stone’s name thru the mud? There are plenty of interesting screen names from which to choose. Why don’t you let I. F. Stone rest in peace.
The Bearded Blogger
@kommrade reproductive vigor: It’ll be The Reagan Patriot Jesus Awards if that part of the coalition keeps up it’s ascendancy. Or The Reagan Patriot Teabab Jesus Awards, sponsored by Lipton ™. The logo is a very patriotic looking reagan teabagging jesus,
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Why does the asshole element of the right-wing feel compelled to be assholes?
Comrade Luke
One thing that isn’t being talked about enough imo is that the reaction from the right on this issue might be amplified by the fact that the award in some way validates the foreign policy of a non-Republican.
The right relies on racism, religion and greed, but one thing that they haven’t had to defend in years is their foreign policy. Giving them another front to defend (pun intended) is all good imo.
HRA
I am tired as all hell and came here to take a short rest before I continue cleaning the manse(?) for tomorrows dinner party. I have to thank the General for giving me some good laughs while reading this entire thread. It is refreshing.
I am not going to pick or cite anyone. The too early notion just gets me. When was striving for peace ever too early? I barely got the entire story of what’s going on with an agreement between Turkey and Armenia as I ran between rooms earlier. All I know is it’s awesome considering the decades of hate and violence between them. The question will be what did the US have to do with this long yearned for point of sensibility. I really do not know at the moment. All I know is Secretary Hillary Clinton is there.
Yes, I do believe the president deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.
Comrade Luke
BTW, when I tried to have a conversation about all this with a conservative (glibertarian) friend of mine, as soon as I started talking about the winger reaction he went with the “both sides do it” excuse.
Is there any more frustrating comment to defend? I mean, the right can just hammer away at everything, be as corrupt as they are, and because Keith Olbermann and Charlie Rangel exist everything is equal?
It’s maddening.
wasabi gasp
I pray to the gods of arugula that Zombie Ed McMahon pulls up to the White House in a van carrying a humongous cardboard check.
DBrown
@Brick Oven Bill: The average error bar for world wide temperature from the models is about 0.2 C. As has been shown by experts, the so-called cooling is well within this noise signal for these models. Hence this so-called cooling is well within the normal variation as yielded by the accepted models for AGW. Sorry, but until someone gets a PhD in the subject and can prove that 100% of experts in the field are wrong, they are talking out of their ass’s. That means you, bob of the heaping pile of illogic.
Shade Tail
Wingnuts: Losing the Olympics = The world no longer respects Obama.
Yet they gave him the Nobel Prize.
+++++
Wingnuts: The Nobel Prize is meaningless.
Then why are they driven so crazy by it?
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
In the view of the Taleban, anything, any religious icon that does not depict their view of the one true faith is anathema.
The Taleban are the religious equivalent of the secular Khmer Rouge. Where the Khmer Rouge wanted to take Cambodia back to an ideological year zero, the Taleban want to take Afghanistan back to an ideological year zero. Modernity, even economic prosperity is irrelevant, or at best secondary to achieving religious purity.
The Khmer Rouge would kill people who wore eyeglasses, since they might be middle class. The Taleban beat men with a stick if their beards are not sufficiently Islamic or if they listen to the radio.
And yet, it is exceedingly difficult to defeat any people who deeply believe, whether it is religious or secular nonsense. Sometimes I can’t understand why there are still Maoists fighting in Nepal, a country I love.
Part of this complexity is the background to the Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to Obama.
Brick Oven Bill
Al’s Award-Winning theory was that the continued production of volumes of CO2, which constitutes 0.028% of the earth’s atmosphere, would increasingly insulate the earth, and that the sun’s radiant energy would become increasingly trapped, warming the earth, and giving our new Award-Winner the opportunity to sweep in, control our lives to a greater degree, transfer wealth from metallic societies to Neolithic-founded societies, and lower the level of the oceans.
The levels of CO2 would increase linearly (first order differential, using the Liberal Art of Arithmetic). This means that temperatures would increase exponentially and continuously (second order differential, does calculus count as arithmetic?). Another word for this is ‘acceleration’.
BBC from the above link: “In the last few years [the Pacific Ocean] has been losing its warmth and has recently started to cool down.”
Therefore, falling back on the Liberal Art of Logic, I conclude that:
1. The Nobel Committee is dumb; and
2. Al should be made to give his money back.
I propose changing the seventh Liberal Art from ‘Astronomy’ to ‘Physics’. Astronomy was necessary to prove that the earth was not the center of the earth, and remove power from the Catholic Church.
But Astronomy has limited usefulness in disproving Global Warming, Windmills, and Solar Power, and removing power from those who would control us. Therefore, using the power vested in me by this Internet, the Liberal Art of Astronomy is hereby replaced with the Liberal Art of Physics.
noncarborundum
@Chad N Freude:
A cross is not a religious symbol because Christianity is not a religion. I kid you not:
More here.
Comrade Luke
@Brick Oven Bill:
I don’t know how you dress yourself in the morning.
Brick Oven Bill
Your mom helps me Comrade Luke.
No, The Other One
The award is “premature”? By what criteria? That Pres. Obama hasn’t “accomplished” enough as we in America measure it? We in America don’t confer the prize. They, in Norway do. It’s depressing to see progressives I admire, such including John Cole, succumb to the same sort of chauvinism as the right, which assumes an American perspective as the default starting point for any inquiry.
While I would not presume to try to read the minds of the Norwegian Nobel committee, it’s easy enough to imagine a perspective from which the award doesn’t seem the least bit premature, even at the time of the nominations just 12 days into Obama’s presidency. It’s one that would see his accomplishment not in assuming office but getting himself elected at all, and reassuring the world that the America once worth admiring, worth following, had not disappeared forever down Dick Cheney’s torture hole, or been imprisoned eternally in Guantanamo Bay, or been so debased by its own recklessness and heedless unilateralism under George Bush as to become permanently unrecognizable.
If I had to characterize the award, I’d call an expression of the world’s immense gratitude to the American people for proving themselves still capable of electing someone like Barack Obama, and rejecting neo-conservatism, the most destructive foreign policy ideology of the 21st Century. In that sense, it was right on time.
LD50
And if he had been passed by for the Nobel, that would prove that Obama is a failure because the international community doesn’t respect him. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.
LD50
I’ve seen that ‘Christianity isn’t a religion’ line on many fundie and creationist boards. It’s nothing more than an attempt to wriggle away from separation of church and state restrictions, and to disassociate Fundamentalist Christianity from the evils of religion in general. For example, you can see how it’d be handy for someone trying to get creationism/ID taught in public schools.
The Bearded Blogger
@Brick Oven Bill: Oh, you can do so much better than that, you long winded incoherent straw man fighting troll, you!
Corner Stone
@Brachiator:
Bullshit! Drop a few metric tons of MOAB on their ass and we’ll see what they believe!
/My God is bigger than their God
Corner Stone
@Comrade Luke: Who says he does?
…*shudder*…
Corner Stone
@Brick Oven Bill: Oh snap!
Somehow I don’t think XKCD is gonna like you stepping on their Mom Joke toes. And word to the wise – I’d watch out for that dude as he can draw you into a vanishing universe.
protected static
@Brachiator: Minor quibble…
FTFY.
Brachiator
@Brick Oven Bill:
But of course, it’s not Al Gore’s theory. As always, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
You’ve never demonstrated any understanding of science, so there is little reason to respond to what you have obviously posted in ignorance. One thing, though,
This neither refutes nor confirms anything having to do with climate change. It only says that the issue is complex and gives scientists more data to work with.
Legalize
OT: anyone see this nugget of filth:
Brick Oven Bill
More Arithmetic for Brachinator:
1. CO2 Levels = 0.028% + (time) (CO2 rate of increase);
2. Temperature = baseline + (CO2 rate of increase) (time)^2 + some other linear term which I cannot remember how to do without further research which I am unwilling to do at this time.
But the BBC article states that CO2 levels continue to increase, as temperature is going down.
Therefore, Al is full of shit, and should give not only his award money back, but also should be made to give back all of the money he has made selling Carbon Credits.
Corner Stone
@Brick Oven Bill:
Fucking classic!
ETA –
– Spongebob movie.
Brachiator
@Brick Oven Bill:
In other words, you are wasting everyone’s time with stuff that you don’t understand.
Someone is full of it, and it appears to be you.
Anne Laurie
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
As someone with a Norwegian-born mother-in-law, I wish to remind everyone that the Scandinavian sense of humor is so dry that the rest of us can mistake it for bone-deep anomie. Much of it seems to depend on deadpan delivery of deeply pessimistic statements, to which the non-initiate reacts with horror or outrage. The ultimate success of the ‘joke’ relies on the teller not breaking out laughing while everyone around him goes “WTF? Dude, are you high? Where the hell did that one come from? ! ?” It would not surprise me at all if the NPP Committee had to change their underwear, and possibly dry-clean their chairs, after hearing the rightwing response to their brill choice for maximum larfs, but of course they are ‘too polite’ ever to let us know…
kommrade reproductive vigor
Really? Someone alert the IRS. The back taxes from all of those no-longer-tax-exempt churches will come in handy right about now.
(Actually on second read that’s pretty damn creepy. “Functional behaviour to the glory of God”? Yeesh.)
@The Bearded Blogger: Thanks. Really. A mouthful of water was just what my keyboard needed.
Brachiator
Damn. An attack by some militant group in Pakistan, right now, with hostages being taken
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8300745.stm
.
Chad N Freude
@Brick Oven Bill:
I wish I had thought of that back when I was explaining to my professors why my term papers sucked.
This is a classic! John – Is it too long for a tag?
General Winfield Stuck
@Brick Oven Bill:
Banana B.O.B. strikes a blow for freedom by Coup d’état.
anonevent
@John Cole: Actually, I’m tired of defending the Nobel Committee’s right to give this award to Obama. Does it make sense for them to give it to Obama? In their minds, and ultimately that’s all that matters with regards to this award. Does it change anything? Nope, other than giving the gas bags something new to talk about, because it doesn’t cause peace to break out anywhere.
But, sometimes, with asses like Limbaugh and people I am linked to on Facebook, it really isn’t enough to blow these people off when they are wrong yet again. Is this the right battle? I’m not entirely sure, but it’s really about time that they shut up. Sometimes you don’t argue even if you have the facts just because the battle isn’t worth it. But one day we looked up and “because the terrorists will win” became the only statement they had to make to further their agenda. No facts were needed. And the “Democrats are siding with terrorists because they oppose the president” statement that was used as a club no longer exists because shut up, that’s why. I would go the way of HAL and start murdering my coworkers if I had to handle that kind of cognitive dissonance. (I like the sound of the ramble, it really shows my frustration over this.)
You know, I don’t really have a problem with statements such as “I think it’s premature for him to have gotten the award,” though I will disagree in this case because that’s not how the award is given. But the tenth “Can someone give me an Oscar for a role I hope to go play in the future” (yes, I’m seeing these on Facebook) drives me nuts, because none of these people saying that are trying to do anything of the sort.
I have one of those uncles that you avoid at Christmas. But eventually you have to sit at the dinner table together, and it’s either stabbing him with a knife or correcting his lies.
ruemara
@matoko_chan:
What -chan said.
Beauzeaux
@Brachiator:
Would you please back up this statement with some evidence that can be examined and verified? Thank you.
Oldnovice
(and I happen to be one who thinks it was premature and he definitely did not deserve it),
I am SO tired of people saying this.
It wasn’t YOUR award to give, so you have NO right to suggest ANYTHING.
The award was given by the Nobel Committee according to the criteria established by Alfred Nobel.
bago
This could be the most fucking retarded thing I have ever heard. Well, read.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Obama has made progress in some places, most notably with the Russians. On the other hand he asked Israel to pretty please stop building settlements and they told him to get bent.
Obama has made this WORSE. He has continued the trend of INCREASING military spending in the most militarized, aggressive nation on Earth. He has done nothing to stem nuclear proliferation except give a pretty speech. Here’s a news flash; everybody on Earth gives speeches in favor of nuclear nonproliferation. His contribution to the Iran situation was to publically accuse them of cheating when there is no evidence they have done so. The single most important action he could take in terms of nonproliferation would be to try to get Israel into the NPT; he hasn’t and won’t.
I can’t think of anything special Obama has done in this regard. The recent preliminary agreement with Iran was a multilateral effort.
The Obama Administration continues to be involved in the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor and middle classes to the rich in world history, otherwise known as the “Bailout.”
Obama has done nothing on this yet.
Of course it’s true that Obama is better than Bush on all these fronts. So I propose a posthumous Nobel Peace Prize for Emperor Claudius of Rome.
Wile E. Quixote
@Brachiator
So when did you enlist? Seriously, if you’re so committed to “achieving peace” in Afghanistan you must have signed up and asked to do a tour of duty there. Amirite?
Chad N Freude
@Oldnovice:
And I am SO tired of people telling other people that they have no right to express an opinion.
Perhaps you’d be less tired if you just skipped any comment that contains the word “premature”.
mclaren
Elder statesmen? The Elder Statesmen of the Republican party, you say?
You mean Elder Statesmen like Newt Gingrich who responded to the Columbine massacre by shouting, “And to the liberals, I blame you!”? You mean Elder Statesmen like Rush Limbaugh who proclaimed that the caduceus symbol used by Obama’s health care reform website was a version of the Nazi death eagle? You mean Elder Statesmen like John McCain who picked Sarah Palin as his running mate?
Elder statesmen of the Republican Party like that?
Sorry, those Elder Statesmen aren’t available right now, they’re sealed up inside straitjackets in the locked ward in Bellevue babbling about Martian brain control rays and the CIA sending them messages through their tooth fillings.
kay
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
Sure he has. Legislation is stalled in Congress so they’re going ahead with Agency action. The preferred fix is legislation, of course, but Obama’s not Congress, as you know.
The EPA can reach almost 2/3 of emissions through rule changes. They resisted this approach because it means litigation, but, they’re going ahead.
“The Obama administration is finalizing rules to control industrial greenhouse gas emissions amid growing skepticism about the prospects of Congress passing a comprehensive climate change bill this year.
U.S. EPA is nearly finished with rules that answer the Supreme Court’s 2007 opinion on global warming, as well as a nationwide standard to control greenhouse gas emissions from automobiles.”
mclaren
Brachiator wisely opined:
Indeed. Those pesky facts…so tiresome. That annoying use of logic…unutterably wearisome.
And a tiresome naif like Glenn Greenwald, who persists in trotting out the trite and worn-out stratagem of applying facts and logic to observed reality?
What a fool.
Yes, Glenn Greenwald started out well in life, but then he fell into unfortunate habits of accuracy. Soon he had devolved into a sad display of analytical reasoning, and eventually he deteriorated entirely into documented facts and common sense. A sad, sad case.
Elizabelle
For sheer fatuous lunacy: The Washington Post editorial page today.
Our Nobel Laureate: Neda of Iran.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/09/AR2009100903860.html?nav=hcmodule
Who, ahem, was never eligible because (a) no posthumous Nobels rule since 1974 and (b) nominations were due in February and she did not get shot until the summer.
The Post editorial is abominable. The readers’ comments, though, are great fun. Enjoy!
Comrade Nikolita
@James:
Agreed.
/Twittered as much last night
Pasquinade
@Elizabelle
Spending a bit of time off and on rating up those comments that take the WaPo to the woodshed for this idiotic editorial.
Thanks for the heads up.
Litlebritdifrnt
@JGabriel:
Ugh, look no they didn’t alright? He was impeached for lying under oath. He wasn’t impeached for the blow job, if had sat proud and hearty at that depo and said “yes, she gave me a blow job in the Oval Office” there would have been no impeachment because getting a blow job in the Oval Office is not against the law. Lying under oath is a crime, it is contempt, it is against his oath both as POTUS and as a lawyer (ethics panel and all that). I am very, very tired of the left-wing talking point “he was impeached for a blow job”. He was not. Please. If we are going to argue silly “facts” then we give up our ability to argue against the utter bullshit of the right.
Viva BrisVegas
@Litlebritdifrnt: So is lying under oath about what you had for breakfast equivalent to lying under oath about serial murder?
It’s a serious question, does context matter?
Anyway, I think it would be even more accurate to say that Clinton was impeached for lying about a blowjob.
Grendel72
The world is a more peaceful place because Obama is President of the United States of America. Has everyone forgotten the deranged old man singing “Bomb bomb Iran” who would be leading this country into nuclear holocaust if Obama hadn’t been elected?
Obama has made some important moves in negotiating with Iran, but the rogue nation in danger of destroying the Earth he has dragged back from the brink is US. Maybe some of us can’t see that from inside the US, but it’s pretty damn clear to me that the rest of the world sees it.
Sasha
Huckabee warned the GOP not to flip out or lest their protestations come across as “right wing whining”.
Don’t see anyone taking the advice.
I cannot wait for TDS and Colbert on Monday.
Ditka
@Bruce S
Just pretty speeches, I see.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-07-05-obama_N.htm
Alfred's corpse
Desmond Tutu got it ten years before apartheid collapsed – does that mean Obama has ten years to get us back the Bill of Rights, posse comitatus, habeas corpus, Article 1, and the rule of law?
mclaren
Thanks to OldNovice, we have broached new frontiers of insightful reasoning:
Let’s apply that brand of logic to other propositions…
It wasn’t YOUR war in Iraq, so you have NO right to suggest ANYTHING.
Or how about:
It wasn’t YOUR torture chamber where detainees were getting their genitals sliced with scalpels, so you have NO right to suggest ANYTHING.
Or even better:
It wasn’t YOUR pre-emptive arrest of the Minneapolis non-violent protesters on terrorism charges before they even had a chance to protest, so you have NO right to suggest ANYTHING.
Gooooooooooooooood thinking, OldNovice.
Now, to cap off your virtuoso display of Klever Kognition, repeat after me:
Socrates was a man;
All men are mortal: therefore…
All men are Socrates!
Genius!
Yes, OldNovice, we’re all impressed by your logic…but not the way you’d hoped.
Elie weighed in with:
Actually, Elie, it’s blood on the deadened limb of the American people. And the blood is on our hands. As America continues to murder hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of innocent women and children in wedding parties and funerals with predator assassination drones in Afghanistan, you’re gonna find it just a wee bit hard to get a lot of Afghan fathers (currently tearing their hair and howling with grief over the corpses of their daughters ripped apart like slaughtered animals by United States Hellfire missiles from American UAVs) to testify to that “peace and engagement” stuff.
Between the 1.3 million (that’s 1,300,000) million Iraqi women and children and old men murdered in the course of America’s illegal and baseless war of aggression against Iraq, and the thousands of innocent children and women and old men blown up and shot down like dogs by U.S. troops in Afghanistan, the signs of all that nifty peace ‘n stuff are really hard to discern right now.
How about this, Elie?
Suppose we Americans stop fucking murdering innocent bystanders in the poorest populations of the planet’s most impoverished third world countries? How about that, huh? Then maybe America can start boasting and strutting and preening about how committed we are to “peace” and “engagement.”
I’ll stand still for a lot of nonsense, Elie, but when the richest people in the world run around slaughtering thousands upon thousand of innocent non-combatants (like, oh, say, WEDDING PARTIES) of the poorest people in the world without giving it a second thought, that pegs my Bullshit Meter. Obama didn’t just continue doing that evil stuff, he expanded it. Obama has escalated the slaughter of innocent civilians in Afghanistan. At that point, I start to call a short sharp halt to people rhapsodizing about America’s “commitment to peace” and “engagement with the world” until America stops, like…you know…murdering thousands of innocent non-combatant human beings with no more concern than you or I would give to accidentally stepping on a cockroach in the kitchen.
Out here in the real world, Elie, we call that kind of behavior a ‘war crime’ and the people who perpetrate those kinds of acts get identified as ‘mass murderers’ and countries that engage in that kind of ongoing behavior without any sign of changing their behavior are correctly branded as `rogue regimes engaged in mass slaughter of innocents.’
Meanwhile, Grendel72 bloviated:
A more peaceful place, eh?
Tell that the murdered children and women indiscriminately torn apart and blasted into hamburger by pilotless U.S. drones: It’s still going on. Right now. Today.
“…the folks over at the Brookings Institution have become one of the first mainstream think tanks to recognize the horrendously indiscriminate nature of drone attacks in Pakistan.”
So Obama has made the world a more peaceful place?
‘ Of the 60 cross-border predator strikes carried out by the Afghanistan-based American drones in Pakistan between January 14, 2006 and April 8, 2009, only 10 were able to hit their actual targets, killing 14 wanted al-Qaeda leaders, besides [killing] 687 innocent Pakistani civilians. The success percentage of the US predator strikes thus comes to not more than six per cent.’
Ah, yes, a more peaceful place…
Pakistan bombs kill civilians, make more terrorists
This `peace’ you refer to…that would be the peace of the grave…?
British judge denounces cruelty of indiscriminate murder of Afghan civilians by pilotless U.S. drones.
OldDave
I know everyone has moved on, but somewhere back in this thread, BOB stated:
Unless I’m missing something subtle (and there’s rarely anything subtle about BOB) he just said that a gallon of aviation fuel (read: high grade kerosene) weights (2000 / 31.75) roughly 63 pounds. He’s off by an order of magnitude.
I’m shocked.
Oy Vey
Shorter BOB: I have no idea what I’m talking about. Again.
Enlightened Layperson
Am I the only one who looked at that cartoon and thought Deep Impact?
Think about it. That movie gave us our first black cinemagraphic President (Morgan Freeman) and a meteor hitting the earth and causing an unprecedented disaster. (I guess that makes Morgan Freeman either our worst President ever or our best).
Grendel72
A more peaceful place, eh?
Yes, a more peaceful place. I doubt any of us would still be alive to be debating this nonsense if Old Man McCain had his finger on the button when nuclear stockpiles were discovered in Iran. With a grownup in charge we’ve managed to negotiate with them to convert those stores to non-weapon grade.
Things are far from perfect, but for god’s sake we have been heading towards apocalypse since the Reagan administration at least, and pretending we’re no better off now is just ignorant.
The award isn’t even really about Obama, it’s about us as a nation stepping back from the brink of madness. If you can’t be happy about that there is something deeply, deeply wrong with you.
Frankly, while I have a lot of problems with some of Obama’s policies I am amazed he works to advance any of our causes when he gets racism and death threats from the right and nothing but whining from the left. Yes we need to remind him how far we have to go, but for fucks’ sake don’t be an idiot and pretend we’re no better off than we were under bush or would be under McCain.
Chuck Butcher
One of the problems is that we look at what Obama does and think he’s doing what he’s paid to do, sort of. The rest of the world doesn’t see it that way. They don’t read and believe our school book histories and don’t see GWB so much an incompetent abberation but more as an exercise by the most powerful nation in power, naked power. We can, you know, do that and we have before GWB. We’re the big kid on the block, by a huge margin, and when we get to being mean and bullying it scares the hell out of a lot of people. Fuck, ya’ll; we nuked two cities because they wouldn’t surrender and they did real quickly afterward because the Japanese were under no illusion that we wouldn’t kill enough of them that a Boy Scout troop could pacify what was left.
GWB scared the hell out of a lot of people and he made this world a hell of a lot more dangerous for a lot of people and potentially even more. The Nobel committee is looking at the most powerful man in the world making very real efforts to change that direction. Eight years of GWB was an eternity for a lot of the world and a change in direction or attempts to change that direction have a huge impact, especially if they are furthered by something like the NPP.
Damn people, our military budget is larger than the GDP’s of most nations. We are the greatest threat to world peace there is. What BushCo was up to scared the hell out of the world for a good reason. We could be one of the greatest boons to world peace as well, but that depends on our approach and philosophy doesn’t it?
“Not deserved?” What kind of kindergarten world do some of you think this world is and who the fuck do you think we are? The world does not see Obama through our lense, they see something entirely different and the same goes for the USA. I see this “Fuck yea, Murika,” snark a lot and then read the same reasoning going on. Americans are provincial and for pretty real reasons – short history and big oceans and…
So, I’m real pleased to see Obama get the NPP and I don’t doubt why and don’t give a fuck-all either about “deserved.” I’m real proud the world in the person of the Nobel Committee sees him in that light and I hope to hell the rest of this nation can get its shit together enough to help with that. Reading this provincial crap makes me doubt it, regardless of the R/L orientation.
Chuck Butcher
Damned if Ajax Edit isn’t one of the more useless POS I’ve ever dealt with….
matoko_chan
Ali Eteraz
Bill Jones
The wingers are arguing the wrong point.
“Obomber Is, of course, the current “Killingest person in the World”.
Does anyone have a nominee for that title other than Obomber?”
That should be their argument.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Fucking Christ.
Hurray for Obama! He signed a PRELIMINARY agreement which if ever realized means that the U.S. and Russia can only kill us all TWENTY TIMES OVER instead of thirty times! YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!!
Couple of questions; where’s Medvedev’s Nobel Peace Prize? And do you cheerleading imbeciles realize that you HAVE TO HOLD YOUR LEADERS’ FEET TO THE FIRE EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY, or they will fuck you over? Have you figured it out yet?
EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. No matter which speechgiving empty suit of which party is infesting the White House. EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.