Ron Radosh at PJ Media reacts to the Nobel prize news to… insist Bill Ayers will write Obama’s acceptance speech, just as he did his books.
Is it too much to hope that one day, beltway wankers like Chip Reid will realize that Bush Derangement Syndrome was just projection, and that they will begin to understand that the Republican party is not filled with rational actors.
Steeplejack
I am en fuego today. Two firsts. That is all.
Now I’ve got to go to work. Back before midnight, I hope.
burnspbesq
Yes, it is too much to hope. Sorry.
ruemara
Yes. This has been today’s episode of SATSQ. BTW, found some ¡Hola Fruta! and the pomegranate is quite nice. Stay warm, drink lots of garlic tea and rub your chest and those glands under your throat and your throat with tiger balm. It’ll burn like hell, but give it about 8 hrs of rest and liquids and you’ll start puking up cthulu’s grandchildren in phlegm balls.
General Winfield Stuck
A one party country is not good for teh ratings.
Then they will just have to rely of the permanent dem circular firing squad for drama.
Just Some Fuckhead
Damn, saw the post title and thought, this is it, finally we’re gonna get a pic of the elusive John Cole..
The Grand Panjandrum
@General Winfield Stuck: I think a pretty good argument can be made that the Democrats are the two party system with the Blue Dogs, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, and Joe Lieberman serving as the opposition.
Emma Jackson
Yes, to many people….
Just Some Fuckhead
I think much of my anger when dealing with wingnut friends and relatives (been defaced by a friend on Faceborg and my mom stopped talking to me) stems from the fact that they don’t seem capable of rational thinking.
But, ya know, it could just be that I’m a dick.
Notorious P.A.T.
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Too true.
AhabTRuler
@Just Some Fuckhead: He’s not friggin’ Bigfoot (that we know), it’s just that no one is going to go all the way to WeeVee just to get a look at his ugly mug.
Beside which, we love him for his personality.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
The most delicious aspect of the right wing freakout over Obama’s NPP award is hearing folks denounce him for not having accomplished enough in pursuit of goals which the other 364 days of the year they the critics are adamantly opposed to. I mean come on, how many right wingers do you know who support the idea of nuclear disarmarment? Peace in the Middle East? etc, etc… Yet they are shrieking “how dare he! he hasn’t done anything yet!”. It is like listening to a bunch of Maoists complain that somebody doesn’t really deserve to receive an award for being Capitalist of the Year because he hasn’t made a bazillon dollars exploiting the workers yet.
Just Some Fuckhead
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
I might have to use that.
MattF
You can feel Radosh’s intense irritation with the world outside the winger bubble– It’s so obvious that the Great Leftist Conspiracy– Ayers, DFH’s, Abbie Hoffman– it all fits together, it all makes sense. So why isn’t anyone listening?
Genine
I don’t think Obama deserves the NPP at this point in time. But the bitchin’ from the Right is just ridiculous. As for calls that he should have turned it down, had he done that, things wouldn’t be much different. Instead the meme would be “Obama snubs the world after the world snubs Chicago” or some such.
@ruemara:
Tiger Balm is good. But if someone wants more… gentle cleaning- white flower works as well. Good stuff!
JK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IntheCourtoftheCrimsonKing.jpg
Radosh – another former leftist who lost his mind and became a wingnut
Chip Reid – double dipshit of the White House Press Corps
Brick Oven Bill
This is perhaps another example, and I apologize for being somewhat off-topic, but it really is not that far off topic, and there is some work that went into this.
OK, Brachinator, here is your equation. Perhaps I can get a government grant for doing their fucking work for them. The data is from Historic Carbon Dioxide levels, and Historic Global Temperatures.
Carbon Dioxide Level Equation:
Carbon Dioxide Level (year) = 0.038 + (year – 1980) (0.00015)
Temperature Equation (1980-2000):
Departure from Tave = (year – 1980) (0.001)
Correlating CO2 levels and Departure from Tave:
Departure from Tave = (year – 1980) (0.001) = (year – 1980) ((0.038) + (year – 1980) (0.00015))
Or Departure from Tave = 0.00144 (year – 1980) + 0.0000057 (year -1980)^2
Therefore, per Al, Departure from Tave in 2009 should be:
Departure from Tave = 0.00144(29) + 0.0000057 (29)(29)
Departure from Tave = 0.042 + 0.0048 = + 0.047
But it is not, it is +0.020! And if you look at the past decade, temperatures have been trending down, removing all credibility from Al’s Theory.
Therefore, Al is full of shit, and should give the money back, including proceeds from the Carbon Credit sales. I should get 10% for this work.
c u n d gulag
Chip is one of the dumbest MFer’s on TV – and that’s one Hell of a long list. Still, he’s near the top.
A square jaw and a great hairline doesn’t make a great journalist. Neither does a cute smile, great hair, and a short skirt (required on FOX).
That still doesn’t explain Candy Crowley, though. By my theory of “only the cute and handsome can survive on TV,” she should be the greatest journalist alive. How can someone that stupid and ugly keep a job? She must have pictures of Wolf in a compromising position with a barnyard animal or Larry Craig (if you can tell the difference between the two, you’re better than I am). I’m trying to think of a male couterpart to her on cable, and I just can’t think of one. Somehow, of the men, if they’re ugly, at least, for the most part, they’re not anywhere near as stupid as she is. And if they’re stupid, like Chip, they are good looking. maybe I’m just not thinking hard enough. Is there a male counterpart to Candy (Ann Coulter does not count)?
ironranger
Northern Minn, Mich & Wisc were the destinations for many scandinavian immigrants. Finnish immigrants bought land to settle & often the sauna was built before the house.
Today wood or electric saunas are common in my area of MN. Sitting for an hour in a hot sauna after throwing water on the hot sauna rocks for steam, loyly is wonderful for achy bodies & almost anything else plaguing you.
We have rocks with indentations on our stove that are designed for aromatherpy. We fill them with drops of cedar essential in water. Smells great. Now I’m thinking I will try using eucalyptus oil when I have a cold.
General Winfield Stuck
It’s all a continuing global Marxist conspiracy to cause our wingnuts to once again be fooled into rooting against their own country. See recent Olympics decision.
Who will be the first RW thinker to figure out the diabolical sting?
gwangung
@Genine:
Yah. I think the award was silly. The response is even sillier. Just another chance for right wingers to indulge in their inner drama queen (and since they KNOW drama and drama queens are inherently leftist, it’s probably their only legitimate way to do that).
John Wallach
burnspbesq’s post was really first and the real answer.
John Wallach
burnspbesq’s post was really first and the real answer.
Eric U.
@c u n d gulag: I’ve always wondered about Candy Crowley myself. CNN does have a long history of ugly on-air personalities though, so maybe she’s just a holdover. But I’m sure the fact that she’s a Republican doesn’t hurt.
JK
@Genine:
It was the same damn thing with the Copenhagen trip. If he had skipped that trip he would have been blasted for not caring enough about his hometown to help them win approval from the IOC. The Nobel Peace Prize and the Copenhagen trip were very pivot friendly stories for the wingnuts.
Demo Woman
During the President’s Cup they mentioned that the President could go to present the trophy if the US wins. Although they were just speculating, they did mention his Nobel Prize. It’s nice to hear some one mention it without the snark.
The Other Steve
We’re a long way away from Peak Wingnut
slag
Once again, you hit on the crux of the issue. It’s not deranged to oppose blatantly pointless wars and Heckuva Job Brownies. It is deranged to oppose a Nobel Peace Prize accompanied by a million bucks. I fail to see why this simple concept is so elusive.
And shouldn’t bizarro world be gone by now? Why is it still here?
anonevent
OT but hilarious, Porn company names Gingrich ‘Family Values Porn Fan of the Year, 2009.’
Tonybrown74
Well, you do know the Mathematical Formula for Peak Wingnut:
Peak Wingnut = Peak Wingnut + 1.
Sp you never really hit it, since the next response/freakout is always going to be more outrageous.
slag
@gwangung: Say what you will about whether or not Obama deserved the award, but I’ve come to the conclusion that giving it to him was a stroke of genius. Obama, like him or not, is a man with a conscience. The Peace Prize will weigh heavily on him in every domestic and foreign policy decision he makes. Which pleases me greatly.
PaulW
@slag:
Because people are still making money off of it.
<— glances at his dad’s subscription to NewsMax magazine and sighs forlornly.
kay
The Nobel Digrace: But Who Will Write Obama’s Acceptance Speech?
Is the author a tea bagger?
It just gets better and better from there. It’s very funny. There’s a strange detour into Bob Dylan’s formal wear choices, for example.
I hope he didn’t intend it to be devastating commentary. It’s hysterical.
James
Chip Reid and his wife are known to be very good friends with the Cheneys. They vacation together. That should explain a lot about his behavior at the White House briefing. He’s always first to jump in to defend his good friend Dick Cheney.
(NOTE: I don’t know if those vacations involve duck hunting. If I learn about it, y’all will be the first to know.)
Woody
Seems to me that the folks who argued that ‘thePrez’ hadn’t been around long enough to deserve the criticisms leveled against him are kind of in a bind when they now have to argue he’s done “enough” to earn this recognition.
Prob’ly that’s just me, hunh…
gnomedad
@Brick Oven Bill:
Not off topic at all.
gwangung
@slag: Yah.
And the Peace Prize committee is trying to influence us. Like, duh. Peace is inherently a political process. THE ENTIRE MISSION OF THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE IS TO BE AN ACTIVE PLAYER IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS.
Like I said…silly.
AhabTRuler
See, of all the things that I think about the award, “silly” is one thing I absolutely think that it isn’t. I can understand people who think that it was wrong, premature, undeserved, perfect, genius, or lots of things. But, regardless of what any of us think, the committee had a very serious purpose in choosing Obama as the laureate.
I happen to be be slightly in favor of it, mostly because, hey, its their award and we didn’t ask them before we started playing empire, so fair’s fair. OTOH, they could just be assholes, I dunno.
However, It’s worth remembering that at one time, Sweden was considered a world power too.
gwangung
@Woody: Nope.
His political career on the international stage didn’t start with the presidency.
Dustin
@30
Exactly. If I had to guess that was probably their motivating goal.
mai naem
John, to answer your question, you are expecting too much. This was covered up to an extent by Bob Somerby. Some of this is due to the MSM internalizing the “MSM is all pinko commie liberal” meme. Some of it is due to the corporatizaton of media. Some of it is due to the big folks in the media being paid so much money and thus, they gain from Repub tax policies(in the short term but that’s a topic for another post.) Lastly and I think almost most importantly it’s because of the 24 hr newscycle. This means that firstly you are more dependent on PR/talking heads/political operatives for analysis/talking points. Secondly, you don’t have the time to do much reporting. How can you report when you are on the air every hour. How do you develop sources if you are in front of the camera every hour/reporting for radio/blogging etc. etc?
AhabTRuler
@slag: I think that it is also worth remembering that the US president has a significant political impact on Europe, as they have learned over the past 60+ years. Obviously Norway isn’t going to overtly interfere with domestic elections, but there is a certain political genius to chucking this hand grenade of a peace prize into the US and international political scene. Given that many, if not all, of the present reactions were predictable (the Nobel Peace Price selection committee can’t be that new, can they?), the question becomes, what does this accomplish for the committee/Scandanavia/Europe/world/&c.?
Tony J
Which is a good point. Because in wingnut world, that’s exactly the right action for a President to take. When the Rest of the World combines to wound American pride by stealing away the Olympics, a true patriot’s duty is to strike back by calling the Rest of the World assholes. It’s the only grown up thing to do.
I just realised, that’s not even snark. If Obama did reject the Nobel Prize and cite Chicago’s rejection as cause, the Wingnutosphere would find it so kewl that they would have to shut down for a whole day while everyone involved went through a strict Nordic ritual involving genital flagellation and the purging of impure thoughts.
Peter J
Peak Wingnut is a lie.
Mark S.
Memo to Wingnuts:
The rest of the world, with few exceptions, fucking hates you. They think you are a bunch of dangerous and hypocritical ideologues. We could have elected a cantaloupe for president and they would have been ecstatic because the cantaloupe wasn’t George W. Bush.
Make of this what you will.
Just Some Fuckhead
@slag:
Yeah, all we need now to get the show started is to give him the World’s Greatest AntiChrist award.
Wile E. Quixote
@c u n d gulag
Larry Craig has a wider stance than most barnyard animals and wears a flag pin. Does that help?
burnspbesq
On my flight from Orange County to Denver on Wednesday, the guy sitting next to me was reading Malkin’s new book (I was reading the new Richard North Patterson novel, “The Spire,” which is really good if you are a fan of psycho/legal stories).
I feel for the person who had to clean up after that guy’s head exploded yesterday.
Wile E. Quixote
Is there something about Judaism that makes people raised in its traditions complete and utter tools who are easy prey for authoritarian ideologies? I mean you have Irving Kristol (Who, since he was a Jew and never received Christ is burning in Hell right now. Hey wingers, I don’t make the rules, they’re in the Bible, deal with it.) who started off as a Trotskyite and became the founding father of neo-conservatism. You have Ron Radosh, a red diaper baby and Stalinist who became another conservative asshole, and then there’s David Horowitz, who brags about how he used to be so far to the left that he once orally serviced Huey Newton the entire Oakland chapter of the Black Panthers as an act of left-wing political solidarity, who became a ranting asshole of a conservative as soon as he turned 40.
What the fuck is wrong with these people? Did they all get hammered on Mogen David that had been sweetened with lead based paint chips and wood alcohol? Or is it just sheer opportunism? Did Radosh, Horowitz, Kristol et al realize that America is a conservative country and that they could get farther and make better bank by being right-wing authoritarian dipshits than they would as left-wing authoritarian dipshits?
Thadeus Horne
@Brick Oven Bill: BoB, for your own sake, turn the computer off, go take a waalk and breathe some real air. Not that recycled stuff you’ve been getting in the basement.
Try to re-enter real life. You’re loved ones, (I’m sure you have some….one?) would be highly appreciative, I’m sure.
Martin
Not just that, but nobody can argue that the US doesn’t have a major impact on people around the world. After 2004, the international reaction to the American people was pretty universally ‘How the fuck can you do this to us?!’ Now, maybe that was an over-reaction on their part, but their point was that the rest of the world doesn’t get a vote on how we treat them.
Well, they figured out they do have a vote – and they’ve made it. We’ll see if the voters acknowledge this, but they’re trying to stack the deck in favor of Obama in 2012.
Martin
Yeah, the wingnuts hide pretty well here in OC. There’s one car in my neighborhood with a tea party sticker and a few houses away a guy with a large ‘Don’t Tread on Me’ flag in front of his house and a bunch of NoBama stuff on his truck.
I’m guessing that Palin’s book will sell far better than I want to acknowledge.
gnomedad
@Wile E. Quixote:
Great rant. Whorowitz for me is the very definition of opportunism. What a tool.
eemom
I am personally baffled by all the angst over whether Obama should have gotten the NPP or not. If he got it because he’s not George W. Bush, that’s good enough for me.
Srsly, with all the godawful messes we’re in, why is all this energy being devoted to a purely symbolic and ultimately meaningless determination by a group of obscure Norwegians?
KG
according to the latest numbers, I think it’s fair to start referring to the GOP as a third party. Last numbers I saw (at Sully’s) shows the GOP at 22% of the population, Independents at about 35%, and Democrats at 34% (don’t ask me to figure out where the other 8% is, but I’m guessing that’d be the actual third parties). The problem is, the Independents don’t have an organized party to represent them (insert joke about Democrats not having one either here).
Gwangung
@AhabTRuler: well, OK, the award itself isn’t that silly but I found this year’s process in the silly side but it doesn’t top the supreme silliness of the responses. YMMV, of course….
GregB
Chip Reid, rhymes with Dick Weed.
I betcha he’s got a laminated Sarah Palin picture he keeps hidden in the shower.
-G
Mnemosyne
@Wile E. Quixote:
It wasn’t so much that as the realization that anti-semitism was, to all intents and purposes, dead in the United States. If you were Jewish, you were no longer an outsider looking in — you were one of the in-crowd. Why would anyone ambitious stay with a dying hippie movement when they could join up with the rising conservative movement and make much more money (and be more influential) that way?
AhabTRuler
@Wile E. Quixote: Yes. The Right pays better.
Peter J
In Wingnuttia there are no other pollsters than Rasmussen.
And they say it’s R 32, D 38, I 30.
According to Pollster, that’s without their LV scheme, but it does look a lot more like this.
Jack
@slag:
There are dead children in Afghanistan, dead Gazans, dead Pakistanis, the victims of Goldman Sachs and AIG, those who’ve labored against draconian anti-gay laws he’s betrayed, those who thought this might be the era when reform did not mean “hand out to insurance companies,” who might be inclined to question whether or not Obama’s conscience runs all that deep.
Flame away. I’m sure at least one clannish ne’er do well will insist that my failure to sail on the ship of another Clitonite triangulator means that I’m no liberal…
Elizabelle
blog hogging: couldn’t decide if this post would be more seen on this thread or the earlier one today.
Whatever, you must enjoy the Post’s, uh, reasoning and writing skills. Posolutely CNN range.
=================================
For sheer fatuous lunacy: The Washington Post editorial page today.
Our Laureate: Neda of Iran.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/09/AR2009100903860.html?nav=hcmodule
Who, ahem, was never eligible because (a) no posthumous Nobels rule since 1974 and (b) nominations were due in February and she did not get shot until the summer.
The Post editorial is abominable. The readers’ comments, though, are great fun. Enjoy!
JK
@Wile E. Quixote:
Look at the work of Irving Howe, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and William Kuntsler. They didn’t fall into the trap you describe.
ilsita
I guess I could research this, but where on earth did they get the idea that Ayers wrote Obama’s book in the first place? It seems like the most random thing… more random than usual. Did it really go like this:
1. Bill who?
2. Apocalypse!
3. Therefore, Ayers wrote Obama’s book.
4. Obviously.
?
I must be leaving out a step in this reasoning. Did they just unselfconsciously pull that out of their asses in front of everyone, and then set about trying to prove it?
Ash
@Jack: Ehrm, a few of the things on your list there seem to have been transported through time…
Tonal Crow
Bill Ayers? Hell, Stalin has written everything Obama ever was credited with writing, except for the stuff that The Devil Himself wrote. Too. Also. You betcha.
/wingnut
nitpicker
Ron Radosh is projecting and I’ve got the proof.
Amy
Hey, you shmuck who rags on Jews for being conservatives — Guess you don’t realize that of all religious groups, Jews give Obama the highest approval ratings and voted for him in the highest numbers.
Ruckus
@Wile E. Quixote:
Not to create too much hatred around here but it seems to me that many people who follow any organized religion are willing to follow shinny things. Some of them are always looking for the next shinny thing and some will stick with what they are first taught, but they are looking for something. It’s almost the founding principle of organizations, the more people following, the better and stronger it must be. And with nothing but faith as a guide the only way to justify how great a religious organization is, is to have more and sometimes louder followers. And of course some people need so much attention that they have to change (religion, political parties, jobs, their souls, choose one or more) just to stand out in some way.
JK
@Wile E. Quixote:
You may want to chat with Robert Stacy McCain aka The Other McCain who wrote of his desire to resettle Jews into the heartland so that they could be cured of their liberal tendencies http://rsmccain.blogspot.com/2009/09/on-jews-and-liberals.html
smiley
@Demo Woman:
That’s not going to happen. It’s being played on the west coast and it might not be known who will win until, say, 6:00 EDT. So, unless the Nobel came with a transporter, he’s not going. That was just an example of professional golfer self-importance.
Mark S.
@Amy:
Yeah, and this is just a couple of weeks after a conservative rag had a symposium trying to figure out why Jews are so liberal.
gyma
@ilsita: Some wingnut [memory fail at the moment] was in an airport recently and took a picture of Ayers with her cellphone. She then wrote an article/blog post about the encounter wherein Ayers admitted he ghost wrote Obama’s book(s). Far as I can tell, that’s it in a nutshell.
eemom
@Amy:
Thank you.
Also, it’s more than a little ironic to hear a purveyor of stereotypes about Jews pronounce that “anti-Semitism is dead in this country.”
ilsita
@gyma:
Oh my gosh, I saw that, and actually felt embarrassed for that woman as I read it. It takes a lot to make feel embarrassed for people like that.
But they have been peddling this ghostwriter story for a while now. They seem to have gone from not knowing who Ayers is to knowing that he wrote Obama’s book in one day.
It’s like they have no mental restraining bolt to help them differentiate fantasies from reality.
Martin
@gyma:
No, they’ve been claiming this for a solid year and a half now. It’s basically just their usual ‘A black fella can’t be smart enough to write this, so who did, and why is he too ashamed to admit it.’ Bill Ayers was obviously the best fit – he’s white, so he must be smart enough (all white people are smart, dontchano) and the reason Obama didn’t want to admit it is because Ayers is really the mastermind, pulling the strings on Obama.
The airport thing was Ayers just having fun with the wingnuts. I hope he does it more. I wish Obama would as well.
General Winfield Stuck
Something El Presidente Demint failed to report from his state visit to lovely democracy loving Honduras, as a guest of the new Right Wing Junta.
And Zelaya remains crashed on the Brazilian Embassy’s pull out sofa, while freedom marches on in Honduras.
All while The Mustache of Chaos looks on thru Fox News rose colored glasses.
Just Some Fuckhead
@gyma: No, it started back in the primary when some wingnut speculated it could be true based on his analysis of each man’s books. Ayers was just parodying that when he encountered the dumb lady.
Martin
@eemom:
More than a little?
“There is no anti-semitism. On an unrelated note, let’s round up all the Joos, stick them in boxcars and send them to re-education camps in Nebraska.”
Irony doesn’t even cover that kind of thing.
smiley
@gyma:
No, it goes back farther than that. That incident was just taken as proof that Ayers wrote Dreams.
smiley
@ilsita:
@Martin:
@Just Some Fuckhead:
@smiley:
Sheesh. You have to be quick around here.
Maus
These people wouldn’t have jobs if they suddenly started making sense and promoting good ideas and people. There is no way in hell that they would still be employed if their ideas matched that of your average educated and enlightened individual.
smiley
@smiley: I wonder why my last comment is in moderation.
Martin
More frat parties, eh?
Why do I get the sense that conservative frat parties involve a lot of male-only S&M? Not gay, of course, because conservatives can’t be gay, but you know, the usual wetsuits and dildos stuff.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Wile E. Quixote: Careful there, some religions are off-limits. If you wanna be edgy, prolly best to go with Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Koz
This is nothing like Bush Derangement Syndrome.
First of all, the Right is not “freaking out” over the Nobel Prize, we think it’s kind of funny. And in this case, the spectacle really isn’t Obama’s fault anyway, but rather the Nobel Committee’s. In fact, we don’t really don’t personally dislike Obama as much as oppose the things he’s trying to do as President, when it’s becoming increasingly clear to everyone except diehard liberals that he’s hopelessly out of his depth in handling the economy, and the sclerosis of modern liberalism means the advisors aren’t much help either.
General Winfield Stuck
@Koz:
Even for you Kozman, this is some grade A wankery. Nah, you dudes just love the shit out of our black presnit, that’s why yoour team carries assault rifles to his pol events and why the Secret Service reports an unreal bump in presnit threats.
Just about policy, right./wongnut
ilsita
@Koz:
It sounds like your speaking for yourself, Koz…
ilsita
@smiley:
I have my refresh button attached to a foot pedal.
Martin
Why? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses somehow less deserving of their beliefs than Jews or Catholics?
You know why Jehovah’s Witnesses really got the reputation they did in this country? Because they wouldn’t swear allegiance to the flag ahead of their religion – something that the Supreme Court ultimately agreed with.
And you do know that Jehovah’s Witnesses were also put in concentration camps in Germany in WWII.
I’m not defending them specifically, but I don’t see any differentiating factor between them and Jews, or Catholics, or anyone else.
Napoleon
@Koz:
It must suck to adhere to a political party and philosophy that not only is totally discredited in the eyes of the world but also the vast majority of Americans who now know it is a complete failure.
Martin
That’s why 1/3 of you think he’s the antichrist – because you don’t personally dislike the antichrist either. Gotcha.
Martin
Cool, don’t know how the double post happened, but the 2nd is editable and the 1st isn’t. WP is some quality software…
Demo Woman
@ilsita: Unless Sarah’s book has the word also 3000 times, we will know that she didn’t write it.
Can someone please explain to me why Bill Ayers is the number one enemy of the state? I grew up during that period and I can’t remember hearing about him. If they used Bernardine Dohrn, it would have been recognized instantly.
Koz
“I think that it is also worth remembering that the US president has a significant political impact on Europe, as they have learned over the past 60+ years. Obviously Norway isn’t going to overtly interfere with domestic elections, but there is a certain political genius to chucking this hand grenade of a peace prize into the US and international political scene. Given that many, if not all, of the present reactions were predictable (the Nobel Peace Price selection committee can’t be that new, can they?), the question becomes, what does this accomplish for the committee/Scandanavia/Europe/world/&c.?”
I think it’s a tremendous miscalculation on their part, in fact a bigger deal for them that whatever happens to Obama.
The point being, that their own countries aren’t worth very much in terms of being able to project influence in world affairs. Therefore, they want to be able to exercise some influence over the one country that definitively does count. Unfortunately for them, this particular move just emphasizes the extent to which they’ll attempt to bend reality to do it.
General Winfield Stuck
Great, looks like WordPress is now time travel capable. We’re back to 94 comments. Maybe it will take us back to 2000 and we can fix things.
gnomedad
@Wile E. Quixote:
Though I was amused by the rest of Wile E.’s rant, I didn’t take it seriously enough; especially this part. The critics are right — this is way over the line. Mea culpa.
@Amy:
That’s what make Kristol and Horowitz especially bizarre. Whether Jews are in wingnuttia punditry out of proportion I have no idea.
Dr. Loveless
@JK:
Holy crap. Did he read Philip Roth’s The Plot Against America thinking it was an instruction manual?
gyma
@smiley: Hmmm, WP is fucked up tonight, I guess.
Thought I replied, then a bunch of comments got eaten.
Anyway, I’m an idiot! Guess there just aren’t enough hours in the day to follow all the winger talking points. It’s exhausting, I’m telling ‘ya.
ChrisB
@c u n d gulag: If I was mean and insensitive I’d do this:
Sorry.
Brick Oven Bill
Testing.
Hugh Batchaw
@Koz:
Your handle means “vomit” in German. That pretty much nails it.
Viva BrisVegas
Well it’s nice to see that the winger meme that Obama does not deserve the Peace Prize has automagically permeated all the way through the blogosphere to BJ.
But is it just maybe barely slightly possible that he actually does deserve it?
Why don’t we look at it from the Nobel Committee’s point of view? What would they like about Obama:
Agreement with Medvedev to reduce nuclear stockpile.
During campaign, Obama promises to negotiate with rather than bomb Iran. Iran agrees to reprocess uranium in Russia.
Dropped stupid missile shield in Europe. Russia no longer Great Satan angry at US.
I could go on, but you get the idea. In eight months this guy has done more for world peace than Bush, and dare I say it Clinton, did in eight years.
So how about holding our collective heads up and saying three simple words, “He deserves it”.
Mike in NC
Today there was report on how the Department of Homeland Security has vetoed an amendment spearheaded by Jimmy Demented to add an extra 300 miles of high fencing along the US-Mexico border. If there’s one area of government spending that wingnuts and teabaggers can’t get enough of, it’s creating a Berlin Wall — complete with land mines, barbed wire, and machine gun nests — along the Rio Grande to keep out those pesky brown people.
Chad N Freude
@Tonybrown74: Actually, progress to Peak Wingnut is the contemporary equivalent of Zeno’s Paradox.Every time someone appears to reach the peak, someone else says something wingnuttier: Current wingnut champ can never close the gap with next wingnut champ. QED.
Brick Oven Bill
Re: Rational Actors
Annie put the cup to her lips and drank. Earlier in the day she had written:
“…the most peaceful, loving community that ever existed. Jim, the one who made this paradise possible—much to the contrary of the lies stated about him being a power-hungry sadistic, mean person who thought he was God—of all things. His hatred of racism, sexism, elitism, and mainly classism, is what prompted him to make a new world for the people—a paradise in the jungle. The children loved it. So did everyone else.”
Here is a picture of Annie (middle). Note the visual similarities to the women of the Students against Militarism, in the Obama pre-Harvard prose link above*. Carolyn, to Annie’s right, also died that day. The guy to Annie’s left thought the deal was pretty good. He apparently made it out alive.
Which is now gone. (?)
+3
General Winfield Stuck
@gyma:
Yes, tragic. my jokes were gobbled up as were some answers in song lyrics.. I propose we take this up at the next BJ minion union meetup.
This will not stand. A crime against inanity.
JK
@General Winfield Stuck:
It takes a lot to laugh, it takes a train to cry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz47XGsi2e0
kommrade reproductive vigor
Tunch is taking advantage of his slave’s illness to fuck up BJ.
ilsita
@Brick Oven Bill:
Bill,
Are you making a connection between Jim Jones and Obama? Sorry, but… could you just plain come out with whatever it is you’re saying.
And, I’m not getting the similarity you’re referring to. The students in the Students Against Militarism photo are not both women.
What are you saying? That the Students Against Militarism in a 1983 paper kinda remind you of the picture of caryolyn layton and annie moore, taken a few years earlier? And that therefore people who are against war today are like Jonestown victims? And Obama is like Jim Jones?
If I’m even close, it’s no wonder we’re at war. Sheesh.
JK
@Dr. Loveless:
Robert Stacy McCain is very sleazy even by wingnut standards. He co-authored DONKEY CONS: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party with Lynn Vincent who is also Palin’s co-author.
General Winfield Stuck
@JK:
He’s a con artist. Every post he makes these days ends with begging for money. I think he’s unemployed cause not even the other wingnuts want much to do with him anymore.
Jody
I know I’m late to the game, but I just gotta say my peace…
A Nobel award given to a leader is as much a statement about the people he represents as it is about the leader himself.
After watching us for the past decade, the Nobel committee (and most of the rest of the world) were expecting us to once again make the wrong choice. The fact that we went with the guy whose foreign policy approach could not be summed up with the term “yee-haw” meant enough to them that they felt they had to give credit where it was due.
So yes, the fact that he is NOT another Bush retread was a major factor in the committee’s selection. And that’s a good thing.
Mark S.
@ilsita:
BOB’s been nipping the extra special moonshine today. The good news is that he’ll be blind for the next couple of days.
Chad N Freude
@Wile E. Quixote: You might want to think this through a little more. In addition to the writers named in @JK, there are Rahm Emanuel, Robert Reich, Barney Frank, and a long list of Clinton administration liberal Jews at the Radio Islam website. (Warning: Not safe for Jews there.) And you might want to look at the hand-wringing symposium about liberal Jews in
Podhoretzland
Apparently Brick Oven Bull isn’t the only one around here who doesn’t feel like doing research.
Mark S.
@General Winfield Stuck:
Hey, that’s not fair! Just because he was too crazy to write for the Moonie Times does not mean he is an unemployable loser.
Things are going to change for the Other McCain, I can feel it!
Chad N Freude
Testing – why is my previous comment in moderation?
Chad N Freude
@Wile E. Quixote: I posted a response to this but for some incomprehensible reason it went into moderation. If and when it comes out please read it: @Chad N Freude
Wile E. Quixote
@Amy
So, what does this prove? There are plenty of conservative Jews out there who shit themselves over the election of President Obama and did everything they could to prevent it and are now incredibly pissed off about it. Does the name Charles Krauthammer ring a bell? How about Billy Kristol? Or the aforementioned Whorowitz and Radosh. Or everyone’s favorite Democrat In Name Only, Joe Lieberman? Or we could talk about the unholy alliance between pro-Israel groups and right-wing evangelical Christians, who aren’t particularly tolerant of Jews (they believe they’re all going to burn in Hell because they’re not Christians, oh, and also because they read books other than the Bible) but who are willing to go along with them because Israel figures prominently in the apocalyptic Book of Revelations nonsense that they believe in.
I would like to know what it is that turns so many formerly leftist Jews into ranting and raving right-wing authoritarian loons. You have all of these guys who came out of New York in the 30s, 40s and 50s who were singing the praises of Joe Stalin and the Comintern and then all of a sudden, around the time they turn 40 they pull an ideological bootlegger’s turn and become foaming at the mouth right-wing authoritarians. It’s an interesting cultural phenomenon because when you read up on Radosh, Whorowitz (I love this spelling) and Kristol their backgrounds and their arcs from being left-wing stooges to right-wing wingnuts are so similar. It’s almost as if these guys went out and said “Hey, I just read that book by Eric Hoffer and I want to be a True Believer.
ilsita
@Mark S.:
Heh. I had a feeling he might have dropped in to illustrate the post title. It always helps to see the practical application.
Martin
He’s saying that Obama is a mind-controlling, cultist, anti-Christ, marxist, who has issues because his dad was absent and smuggled him into the U.S. after he was born. Oh, and he’s a nigger. Also.
BOBs been put in time-out enough times that he speaks everything in 3nd Declension Ablative Reverse Polish DaVinci Code now.
Brick Oven Bill
Photo of Marceline Jones.
Her husband impregnated Carloyn (dead) who gave birth to Jim Jon Kimo (probably dead too). Probably impregnated Grace Stoen (dead) who gave birth to John Victor Stoen (probably dead too). Following the impregnation of Grace, her (former?) husband travelled to Washington as a “Concerned Relative” and talked to, among other people, Representative Ryan.
Then Harvey Milk wrote to Jimmy Carter, supporting Jim (“Jones is a man of the highest character, blah blah blah). Harvey was later shot dead by a fired Democrat (the Pelosi tears over this one). Then Congressman Ryan went down and was shot dead by the Jamestown crew. Then they poisoned themselves and something like 278 kids died.
Marceline’s last words:
“I, Marceline Jones, leave all bank accounts in my name to the Communist Party of the USSR. The bank accounts are located in the Bank of Nova Scotia, Nassau, Bahamas. Please be sure that these assets do get to the USSR. I especially request that none of these are allowed to get into the hands of my adopted daughter, Suzanne Jones Cartmell. For anyone who finds this letter, please honor this request as it is most important to myself and my husband James W. Jones.”
Therefore, HBD is neither healthy nor happy. It is just better to see the world as it is, and enjoy it as best we can.
+4 with a cigarette
General Winfield Stuck
@Wile E. Quixote:
Many of these leftists turned neocon were Scoop Jackson dem acolytes. When the southern strategy took hold, and the dem party began shedding hyper militarist members to the GOP, a bunch of them made the switch. All they care about is using military power to protect American exceptionalism and project our military power as a political and economic tool.
And to defend Israel, but that is secondary IMO. For them it’s “why do have a powerful military machine if we’re not going to use it to get our way with the world”. And not all of them are jews, as there are plenty of WASP neocons and they all crave empire above all else. And they are also the most dangerous motherfuckers on the planet today.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Dr. Loveless: Speaking of RSM, how did his stint as a Citizen Journalist go? The last I heard he was headed down to Kentucky to get to the bottom of Bill Sparkman’s death.
TR
What a digrace, indeed. He apparently thinks as well as he spells.
TR
Harvey was later shot dead by a fired Democrat
Yes, an archconservative Roman Catholic ex-cop. What a filthy liberal.
+4 with a cigarette
Reads like +12 with a bong.
TR
Oh, and Dan White wasn’t “fired.” He resigned from office, and then after his resignation was accepted, tried to take it back.
That would actually be easier to understand than his usual insanity.
But as a liberal, I love his posts. The combination of his weird paranoias, thinly-veiled racism, and batshit craziness can’t be doing much to recruit people over to the conservative ranks.
Keep up the great work, BOB.
LD50
@Martin:
Koz would tell us that that also explains the huge spike in death threats against in Obama. That’s how Republicans show their love, I guess.
LD50
@Koz:
Might you share with us who fucked up the economy in the first place, since you Republicans are such experts in economics?
TR
You’re right, it’s much worse.
The Secret Service has reported that death threats against the President of the United States have gone up 400% this year.
The Republic of Stupidity
Who the Hell is Ron Radish?
General Winfield Stuck
@The Republic of Stupidity:
Twin brother of Red Radish.
TR
So you’re saying that 50% of this country are “diehard liberals”?
Or are you saying you’re completely full of shit?
Chad N Freude
@Wile E. Quixote: You (and anyone else who’s interested in this particular question) might want to take a look at @Chad N Freude. WEQ, I’d like to know what you think about the linked stuff.
Deborah
Brick Oven Bill is obviously Bill Ayres’ nom de guerre. His plot to enact the One World Society has captured the White House and now moves, inexorably, to capture the internet via Balloon Juice.
Wile E. Quixote
@Koz
I love how conservatives project their inadequacies onto others. Really I do. Firstly we have the phrase “hopelessly out of his depth”. Kozzo, conservatives don’t get to use this phrase any more because conservatives supported the administration of George W. Bush, who was hopelessly out of his depth with everything including eating pretzels, much less more complex things such as speaking English, foreign policy and managing the economy. Secondly we have the phrase “the sclerosis of modern liberalism”. Yeah, modern conservatism is so dynamic and chock full of fresh new ideas like tax cuts, deregulation, starting foreign wars and of course those conservative classics hating on teh ghey and brown people. And of course how could we forget the leaders of the modern conservative movement, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Ronald Reagan. Yeah, nothing says “dynamism” more than a bunch of doughy white guys and a corpse.
Rebecca
@Wile E. Quixote:
You’re an antisemitic moron, you know that?
Wile E. Quixote
@Chad N. Freude
I’ll see your collection of liberal Jews and counter with
William Kristol
Charles Krauthammer
Jonah “Liberal Fascism” Goldberg
Eric Cantor
Joe Lieberman
Melanie “It is my goal in life to make Michelle Malkin look sane” Phillips
Paul Wolfowitz
John Podhoretz
Norman Podhoretz
Henry “Hey, I had to bomb the holy living fuck out of a couple of neutral countries to get my Nobel peace prize. What’s with Obama getting it?” Kissinger
Douglas “Dumbest fucking man on the planet” Feith.
Now, everyone has told me about all of the wonderful liberal jews out there. Great, they exist, Chomsky, Zinn, et al and you know what? They have absolutely no influence over American foreign policy. None, nada, zip, zilch, fuck-all. If they did we probably wouldn’t be as fucked as we are right now. But Douglas Feith, despite his stupidity has more influence over American foreign policy than Noam Chomsky and I’d be willing to bet that Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism is more widely read than Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States.
Looking at the list above I have to wonder if all of these conservative jews said “You know, we really got fucked over by brutal authoritarian regimes over the last couple of thousand years. The Egyptians fucked us over, the Romans fucked us over, everyone in Europe fucked us over, especially the Spanish, the Russians fucked us over, the Nazi Germans came along and really fucked us over and the US fucked us over by not letting any Jews in before World War II and didn’t do a whole Hell of a lot during World War II to help us out*. Obviously the lesson we need to learn from our history of persecution is that we need to throw our lot in with the brutal authoritarians while simultaneously reminding everyone of how grievously we’ve suffered any time someone calls us on the fact that we’ve thrown in with a bunch of thugs.”
*Also see David S. Wyman’s excellent and heartbreaking The Abandonment of the Jews and Paper Walls: America and the refugee crisis, 1938-1941
Chad N Freude
@Wile E. Quixote: I just think you have the wrong filter turned on. Being Jewish doesn’t have a whole lot to do with being illiberal. Substitute Male for Jewish.
General Winfield Stuck
@Wile E. Quixote:
Come on Wile, there are just as many, if not more liberal jews in congress and elsewhere in positions of power, or that influence power. And I would argue that the neocon jews inside and out of Israel are kept in prominence by the likes of Hamas. And that goes to the jewish right wing minority who keep building settlements by playing the security card.
Without Hamas et al constantly picking fights with Israel proper, they would be relegated to minority mouthbreather status very fast. AIPAC would lose most of it’s right wing clout in the US as well, and people like Wolfowitz, Kristol, Podhortz and that crowd would just be another group of wingnut fools howling at the moon. The overwhelming number of Jewish folks on this planet are not warmongers by any stretch.
Chad N Freude
@Wile E. Quixote: Really curious — How do the counterexamples fit your thesis?
Chad N Freude
@Wile E. Quixote: I must be slower than usual tonight. I haven’t asked Question Number One: What is your point? Most charitable interpretation — I don’t understand why an ethnic minority that has suffered so much at the hands of antidemocratic societies for centuries can espouse these antidemocratic ideas. Least charitable interpretation — You can find the explanation of why there are so many neocon Jews in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. So where are you in this spectrum?
Brian Schmidt
I’ll just parachute in here to suggest Radosh might be attempting satire. Kind of hard to tell on the internet, though.
Brachiator
@Wile E. Quixote:
You started out asking
When others offered you examples of liberal Jews, you then down shifted to
This is something entirely different. You seem to have a bug up your ass about Jews.
Should we be waiting for the second part of your little screed in which you wonder how Roman Catholicism could produce such authoritarian tools as Sean Patrick Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Pat Buchanan, Ross Douthat and Peggy Noonan?
And I’m really looking forward to see how you “explain” John Yoo and Bobby Jindal.
Wile E. Quixote
@Chad N. Freude
Slower than usual Chad. Wow, that’s pretty slow, might want to get someone to check your pulse buddy. I wouldn’t bother with the brain function though as you’re obviously braindead. My original point was “is there something about growing up Jewish, in an intensely left-wing environment in New York City in the 1930s and 1940s that causes people to become insane, right-wing dipshits later in life”. Because if you’ve actually read anything about Kristol, Radosh or Whorowitz (or anything by them, and I doubt you have) it’s pretty amazing how similar their backgrounds were, how similar their arcs from leftist stooge to wingnut are and how vehemently they repudiate their former beliefs and former selves.
I’d like to know what it is about these guys that drove them from being flaming leftists to flaming right-wingers. Given the vehemence It’s more akin to a religious conversion than anything merely political. It’s weird and creepy, like dealing with born again Christians, except unlike most born again Christians none of these guys are completely fucking stupid, all of them have serious educational achievements. Is it opportunism? That explains Whorowitz, you can always make good money by going to conservative groups and telling them how horrible liberals are and how you used to be a horrible liberal and how you saw the light and are a good conservative. Conservatives eat that sort of thing with a shovel, and will always come back for more, they love the sense of affirmation they get when a DFH recants. Is it opportunism for power? God knows that the neocons seem to be thinking that way. Is it just that they stand out because the Jews who started out liberal and stayed that way, Chomsky, Zinn, etc are boring because they didn’t undergo this sudden political conversion and instead of ranting about how Bill Ayers is going to write Obama’s Nobel acceptance speech just write articles for The Nation and go on Democracy Now. Or is it just a severe personality flaw, are these fuckers all crazy?
There’s also the interesting question at the heart of this, namely “what is it that causes members of a group who have suffered grievously at the hands of hate-filled authoritarians over the centuries to ally themselves with hate-filled authoritarians”, you know, like the way so many American Jewish groups allied themselves with evangelical Christians, the spiritual descendants of the Spanish Inquisition, over Israel. Or the way in which Joe Lieberman spent the last eight years enthusiastically sucking up to the Republicans every chance he got. I wonder about that and I’d really like to know because I’ve found that the kind of people who ally themselves most enthusiastically with the hate-filled authoritarians are also the ones who cry anti-semitism when anyone criticizes Israel. Don’t believe me? Just go look at the reactions to the Mearsheimer and Walt article on AIPAC. You would have thought that Mearsheimer and Walt had printed an article saying that blood libel and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were true.
Now, if I had asked “Is there something about Christianity that makes people raised in its traditions complete and utter tools who are easy prey for authoritarian ideologies?” and bought up a few Christian examples nobody here would have said a single word, much less gone off the annoying examples of fauxtrage or outright stupidity that we’ve seen here this evening.
Most charitable assumption. You’re an overly sensitive moron like the ones who got their panties in a bunch when Alan Grayson said that 45,000 Americans dying every year because of lack of health care was a holocaust, not “The Holocaust” but “a holocaust”. Least charitable assumption, you’re a retard with mad fauxtrage skillz to match anyone found at a teabagging rally.
Wile E. Quixote
@Brachiator
Actually no. None of these people started off as a screaming left wing authoritarian and then became a screaming right wing authoritarian. Every single one of them has always been a screaming right-wing authoritarian unlike Radosh, Whorowitz and Kristol who started off as left-wing authoritarians and then became right wing authoritarians.
Oh, and let’s face it, there is something about Catholicism that lends itself to right-wing authoritarianism as witness Italy, Spain and the fact that the Nazi party got its start in Bavaria, the most Catholic region of Germany. And if I had made that point you wouldn’t have said a word, not a single word much less your bullshit fauxtrage.
Brachiator
@Wile E. Quixote:
You obviously don’t know me.
And you evaded my main question. You make a nonsensical point about conservative Jews who were previously liberal, but dismiss liberal Jews from your comparison because they supposedly have no power. If your question is about Judaism and authoritarian ideology, what does the powerlessness of liberal Jews have to do with anything?
And given the oppression that the Irish have suffered, you still have to explain someone like Hannity and the others I cited.
You began your little bullshit ramble by speculating, “Is there something about Judaism … ” which is a pretty wide net, and then twizzle down into crap about a group who grew up in New York City.
So your speculation is either trivial or deliberately malicious.
Either way, it’s pretty stupid. Hell, the Brick Oven clown makes about as much sense as you do.
tc125231
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Brilliant.
tc125231
@Brick Oven Bill: And the satellite pictures of the melting ice caps are –in your tiny brain –faked?
Can I kill you when you turn out to be wrong?
tc125231
@General Winfield Stuck:
That’s about right.
Batocchio
Good lord, Chip Reid thinks Reagan should have won a Nobel Peace Prize? That’s fucked up.
slightly_peeved
Using the US definition of modern liberalism, if Obama wants to get some modern liberal ideas he could pretty much talk to any other democratic nation on the planet, since the political discourse in them is well to the left of that in the US. Modern Liberalism to the US is almost the entire mainstream political dialogue of the rest of the world.
If he wants some new ideas about US conservatism, he only has the Republicans to talk to, and most of them still seem too busy with their reenactment of the first 2/3rds of Blazing Saddles to offer anything constructive.
Redshirt
I told that Kraut a fuckin’ thousand times I don’t roll on Shabbos!
TR
Go read John Patrick Diggins’ Up from Communism. It tracks four prominent Americans who went from being Marxists to anti-Communists in the md-20th century. And it does so without your clumsy comments about Jews.
georgia pig
@Brachiator: Yeah, that net was way too wide and caught a bunch of dolphins. Our Quixotic friend has engaged in a classic confusion of correlation and causation. For example, polls indicate Jews are more likely liberal or left of center, so maybe the conversions of these particular fellas have more to do with you have to start with someone who is leftwing to begin with. Jews have historically been concentrated in urban areas in the northeast, where one is more likely to be exposed to european leftist traditions because of the number of 19th century european immigrants in those areas. You don’t find many readers of Marx and Engels in Statesboro GA, nor many jews, so you won’t find too many converts from there. As someone said above, maybe it’s more something to do with wealth and class in America, i.e., conservatism is a favored pose of a good deal of the wealthy, and wealth defines class in America. A youngster with a fine education can make a fine life for himself telling rich people what they want to hear. I think it’s safe to say the Jewish culture in the US has generally valued educational achievement, so it’s not that surprising that some have taken that path to fame and fortune. Most haven’t. But who the fuck knows, or more importantly, cares? Kristol et al. are just assholes, which has nothing to do with being jewish.
Brachiator
@georgia pig:
Yeah, that’s pretty much it. Also I find it interesting that two of the biggest champions of Sarah Palin (the power behind the Caribou throne, if you will) are Bill Kristol and Ross Douthat. One guy is Jewish, the other Catholic, and both are Ivy League educated elitists who are propping up the supposedly down home “real America” “I don’t need no fancy book learnin'” Rogue Queen.
georgia pig
@Brachiator: I don’t find things like that very surprising. Elitist intellectuals are always promoting romanticized visions of “real people.” Sarah Palin is the latest in a long line of such stage props. That Kristol and Douthat profess certain faith traditions is ancillary for the most part, although I think some conservative intellectuals profess fealty to some religious tradition as a part of their schtick, i.e., you have to make some appeal to long-established authority to be an authentic conservative, and what’s better than Moses or the Church of Peter? Newt Gringich as a catholic is a fucking laugh riot.
satby
@Wile E. Quixote:
Eric Hoffer dealt with this in the “True Believer” in the 50s. Great book, IMHO.