I’m not even going to comment on what I want to comment on because I don’t want the flame war that will follow.
Oh, what the hell… I don’t know if I would use the term fringe, but I will say that people who freak out because the HRC speech was not up on the WH website fast enough are the photo negative of wingnuts screaming for Obama’s birth certificate. At any rate, here comes a couple more days of the circular firing squad as the internet gay activists and the HRC have their little proxy war at the expense of you, me, and the administration.
I’m going back to bed. Felt better yesterday, feel worse today. Heading to the doctor tomorrow morning.
Also, vote Bitsy.
Napoleon
Well I hope someone has made you chicken soup John.
When I saw Harwood say that on the NBC news last evening I knew that certain heads would explode in leftblogistan and that would be all anyone was talking about today, well in addition to that undeserving uppity guy in the White House’s award.
Warren Terra
I’d recommend bed rest, plenty of liquids, and some attemot to stir up the incipient sh!tstorm among your commenters – but you seem to be doing all that already.
Get well soon.
Ash Can
Are you sure Tunch isn’t slipping you mickeys?
ricky
A photo negative of wingnuts? Seriously, besides “teh” what words to internet gay activists have trouble spelling?
beltane
Yesterday’s threat was flat-out ridiculous. I was hoping Brick Oven Bill would show up to inject a little sanity.
PhoenixRising
Check out the vandalism at HRC, for a real treat of circular firing squad-ed-ness.
Our movement is so mature, we’re fragging our officers. Whee!
Pablo
If you have a cold or the flu, Get this.
pharniel
Hey, that’s not the most outragous thing i’ve heard today.
did anyone catch the story on NPR about the jewish dude who runs around east jerusulim stalking teenage girls to prevent the evils of
misconginiation and race mixingbetraying Isreal (and god) by dating arab boys?Protip for the Isreali settlers….if you don’t want to get painted as racist fuckwits stop delivering speeches streight outta the George Wallace playbook.
arguingwithsignposts
NPR over the weekend had several reports about the president’s speech and the DC march which were quite positive, IMHO. Don’t know about the rest of the media.
Comrade Darkness
I’m not even going to comment on what I want to comment on because I don’t want the flame war and ad hits that will follow.
This is why we keep you around John. Hope you feel better soon.
Took the SO 3 weeks to shake the viral thing. Never bothered with the doc. Chinese friends forced bel lan gen keli on the SO, but it was the waning days so not sure it made a difference.
Do not let yourself get hungry. Recent research shows that as soon as your blood sugar drops, your immune system slows down too. It’s a huge consumer of energy in your body when it’s under attack.
Thank god for my flu shot in ’76. I only suffered a day and a half with this one.
Valdivia
Feel better John.
Comrade Darkness
@pharniel: Talirabbinical?
CT Voter
The supposed nontroversy over how long the WH took to post the speech is one of the dumbest kerfluffles I’ve seen in quite awhile. Are we all going insane?
Malron
Corporate Blogistan is gleefully quoting John Aravosis’ bomb-throwing piece about Obama’s HRC speech. I know this because one of his fellow site contributors posted an article bragging about it.
By the way. I know I’m not the only one who emits a giggle when a gay blogger writes that some policy is being “rammed down their throat” or Obama is just “blowing smoke up their asses.” Talk about a poor use of metaphor….
geg6
Here’s hoping that you feel better soon, John.
And I do feel you are quite right. The hysteria I am seeing from my gay compadres is just beyond reality as far as I’m concerned. Yes, we all want everyone to be treated equally under the law. And I have financially and politically supported gay rights my entire adult life. But as a woman, I know how damaging jumping the gun can be to a cause the rest of the country (or Congress or the military) simply is not ready for (the ERA battle, for one). And I also know that relatively small gestures (like an executive order to not enforce DADT) don’t really change anything. Women are a significantly larger interest group than GLBTs and it took since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 until 2009 to get the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. That’s 45 years, with still no constitutional amendment to guarantee that women are equal to men under the law.
So I’m really not on board with the criticism of the president’s timetable on which issues will be dealt with when. DADT is stupid, but gays who sign up for service know it going in. Perhaps all gays should refuse to volunteer. DOMA is also stupid and an outrageous attempt to insert religion into secular decisions. But I don’t consider the “right to marry” all that important, to be honest. Maybe it’s because I really don’t think marriage is a good thing, for anyone. So I can’t quite understand why anyone, gay or straight, would do it (and yes, I’m aware of all the legal benefits of marriage; I just don’t get why the word “marriage” is so important. Why not go for domestic partnerships?) “Marriage” is religious terminology for a legal contract. Legally, marriage can = domestic partnership, if you let it.
And my pet political issue is accountability for the previous administration and the government’s domestic spying programs. Has anything been done in these areas, to my own personal satisfaction? No, not a bit. And these are bigger constitutional crises than DADT or DOMA. But you won’t hear me screaming at my political allies on blogs or even in person over it. What I will continue to do is to fight the most effective way to get the attention of those who can do something about them. I will contribute to candidates and organizations in my fights. I will vote for referenda and candidates who support my views. I will attend meetings with local, state, and national political leaders, pressuring them to keep answering for why they have not gotten it done. But I won’t take my ball and go home and sulk. I won’t scream bloody murder so that I alienate everyone who might agree with a less insane-seeming advocate. I won’t let those who would make those matter worse take the wheel of our government again simply because I chose to sulk rather than work to get my supposed allies to move on my issue. And I certainly won’t tell everyone that my issue and my issue alone is the only important one and all other issues are ephemeral and unimportant compared to my issue.
I don’t understand what some of my GLBT brothers and sisters think they are accomplishing with some of their rhetoric on this. I understand their frustration and sympathize with it. But they don’t seem to understand that there are plenty of people who feel those same frustrations and who are a much larger proportion of the population. They should try winning them over, not just in opinion polls, but to get them working to achieve their goals. This will be difficult in the economic environment right now, but its doable. But the screaming at their allies does not further that goal.
gbear
Hope you’re over your cold soon.
I agreed with what you’d said in your two postings the other day so I stayed out of the war that developed (It seemed like 2/3 of those posts came from 4-5
jerkspeople). That said, getting lumped in with the PUMAs was kind of a pisser. You found some wacky, unreasonable posts on a web site (imagine that happening!) and it put you in a mood to tar and feather teh gays as a group. It was a good day to shut off the computer and go play in the snow (which was also kind of a pisser. It’s still falling here today).eemom
dude, yer behind the times. This is the LATEST outrage:
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/11/white-house-thinks-demonstrators-internet-left-fringe-who-need-to-take-off-the-pajamas/
Aravosis, shmaravosis. This woman consistently wins the medal for leading the circular firing squad brigade to glory.
joe from Lowell
The most important thing to Protest People is their self image as Protest People.
Michael D.
@geg6:
Discrimination against black people is stupid, but black people who move to the US should know this going in and stop their bitching!
And who give a flying fuck whether YOU consider the right to marry important? I guess it’s easier to not have to worry about all the benefits it comes with if you’ve never had to! Condescending.
Frankly, I don’t believe you do.
JMY
I don’t necessarily agree with the actually language that Harwood “quoted” – I don’t really trust these anonymous sources or anonymous advisers because that could be anybody – but I agree with the point that was made. This is a divisive issue and something that will be tough to get through even with a majority in Congress. And the negative reaction to the HRC speech and the outrage that it wasn’t posted on the WH website fast enough, proves the point this “adviser” attempted to make. The LGBT community should continue to pressure our government for equal rights, but I just have to SMH when they harp on something as small as an important speech (I think it is) not being posted on a website immediately.
Robertdsc-iphone
Get well soon, John.
Malron
@eemom: Yeah, Jane Hamsher is the other bomb thrower on the left. She’s the Queen of the Chicken Little brigade. David Sirota is not far behind.
South of I-10
John, hope you feel better soon. Make yourself a hot toddy and go back to bed.
geg6
@eemom:
Seriously. This is so patently a product of the Rahm Emanuel Office of Attack Doggishness for the Sake of Being an Asshole that I yawned when I saw it. So Rahm or one of his accolites said something outrageously dickish. And this is news? And I’m immediately supposed to turn the “insult” dial up to 11? WTFever.
Col. Klink
Before the meme dies completely I wanted to note for the record that“We are all Chunky Reese Witherspoon Now” is perhaps the greatest blog header in the history of the internets.
In addition, I’d like to suggest the new tag of “Village Idiots” in reference to lame attempts at conservative concern trolling by the Village and by the Washington Post’s Op-Ed page hacks in particular.
MysticalChick
geg6
This to the Nth degree. Well said.
MysticalChick
geg6
This to the Nth degree. Well said.
Ash
Wait, WHAT? Is this real life? Did this actually happen somewhere? People got upset that a speech wasn’t up on a website on a Saturday night, when it was already all over youtube? What am I missing?
Malron
Maybe we should coin a new term for the bomb-throwing gay activists like John Aravosis. May I suggest “al Gayda?”
gbear
@Malron:
Seriously. I’ve taken both Americablog and FDL (except for TBogg) off of my favorites list. FDL’s comment sections may be harder to stomach than Politico’s.
ricky
@eemom:
I really think Jane Hamsher is trying to win the medal, but I have not seen any accomplishments yet.
Corner Stone
@JMY: I thought Glenzzila had a pretty good wrap up of the language quoted by Harwood, and what bigger picture it might fit into.
It seemed to make sense to me.
Fringe Left
Corner Stone
@Malron: That may be pure fucking gold.
Corner Stone
@Ash: I missed it to but I don’t scour the series of tubes looking for fauxtrage too much either.
I have a few dependable sites I can count on for it.
pharniel
@Comrade Darkness:
More like AlephAlephAleph.
But the settlers are definitely trying to push right up against an edge.
What kills me is the LGF/nutjob/wingnuts that don’t seem to understand why the settlers are the problem.
It’s like they’ve never even bothered to glance through a copy of The Prince.
It’s right next to the loved/feared much maligned quote:
Or something to that effect, it’s been awhile and the translation I read was pretty appalingly poor.
But the point is the settlers go about making the palastinians fear for their land….
Morbo
Holy shit! Someone on Something Awful did a ridiculously awesome photoshop of the McNaughton painting. Now with 100% more Cthulhu!
Warning: possible nightmare fuel. (Apologies if this has already been posted as it appears to have surfaced on Saturday. It’s cool enough to post again.)
Brachiator
In honor of Columbus Day, Flip Wilson’s hilarious take on the Discovery of the New World.
More Info and an audio link.
http://travelinbride.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/happy-columbus-day-monday-from-flip-wilson/
http://jukebox45and33.vox.com/library/audio/6a00e39898c425000200e398bff05a0003.html
John Cole
@Ash: Yes. It was the lead on memeorandum for quite a while yesterday.
@Malron: Please don’t add to the circular firing squad, folks.
rachel
You know what would serve the freaker-outers right? It would be If Obama said, “Fine. I’ll go ahead and issue an executive order that DADT no longer be enforced. Don’t blame me when nearly everybody quits lobbying Congress to repeal it because they think the problem has been fixed, and especially don’t blame me when the next Republican president puts DADT right back in force. Oh and by the way, good luck getting Bush III–whoever he turns out to be–to sign any bill that repeals DADT and the other anti-gay bills.”
geg6
@Michael D.:
Fuck you. I’m not condescending to anyone. I stated what I believe. Marriage is just as stupid as DADT and DOMA. In case you don’t know me, I’m not married. I’ve never been married. I don’t believe in marriage. For anyone. Not me or anyone. I will never have those benefits because I, too, am a minority who is being discriminated against–those who don’t believe in marriage. I WANT ALL MARRIAGES ABOLISHED RIGHT NOW! AND IF I DON’T GET WHAT I WANT, I WILL SCREAM AND YELL AND CALL MY ALLIES BIGOTS AND HOMOPHOBES!
See how well that works? Asshole.
And I really don’t care. I’m on your side, you dickhead. But keep it up and you’ll find people like me will stop being there for you.
CT Voter
@Ash: Yes, it was a “controversy”.
From Steve Clemons:
Steve Clemons worries about WH not posting transcript
Michael
I think it’ll help if they have a parade with lots of feathers, leather chaps with ass cheeks out, and drag drama. Plus marks occur as they can throw condoms on the front steps of any Catholic church they pass.
That is the sort of thing that has worked all so well for the image of gay activists in the past. I can’t imagine that people wouldn’t be moved by such a sight.
ON THE SERIOUS SIDE, what gay activists really need to be taken seriously is to
1. Make normal, ordinary, plain vanilla gay folks the face of the movement, instead of either the flamboyantly abrasive activists or whiny assed titty babies that seem to emerge;
2. Every day of the week, a Conservative Activist Closeted Gay needs outing;
3. Gay men (in particular) aren’t as energized on progressive economics, as gay households are in a different league moneywise. They need to be involved in issues in addition to their emotional stake on marriage;
4. Quit trashing gay America’s best advocates for not waving the Magic Fairy Wand and making it all change immediately;
5. Gay activists who want to be taken seriously should find whoever arranges the flamboyant parades and physically restrain him from doing such a thing ever again.
gnomedad
I dunno; I think it’s premature. Where is her record of achievement?
Brachiator
@geg6:
By the way, if I may ask, was there any resolution to the issue that you raised in the Sep 28 Open Thread?
https://balloon-juice.com/?p=27634&cpage=2#comment-1383720
gwangung
@Michael:
It’s that Obama is not being an obstacle to gay rights, as opposed to leading the charge.
That’s not enough for a lot of people. However, to me, that’s fine; given the mood of the rest of the country, that’s sufficient–work to change from the ground up, from the local to the national–and that’s the kind of change that will last and won’t be undone by a change in administration.
wrb
Damn, Sully’s gone full war blogger on this.
Funny how completely his conservatism slips away on certain issues.
He’s ready to put on a pink gas mask and start breaking glass and burning shops.
geg6
@Brachiator:
Ah, yes. Well, sort of. He currently has his 24-year-old, not very responsible daughter living with him (and who is supposedly moving out soon). Who, incidentally, is NOT thrilled with him having a girlfriend. So, yes. He wants me to move in. I told him that I’d seriously consider it, but it would probably be best to wait until his daughter’s issues are dealt with before we discussed it more seriously.
For me, this is win/win. He is content that I care enough about our relationship to think about moving in and I don’t really have to make a decision yet. ;-)
CT Voter
And today’s controversy is the White House supposedly calling the left the “lunatic fringe”. And the left predictably erupts in outrage (see memeorandum right now). Because some anonymous WH aide via John Harwood ([email protected]#$!!$) is really a reliable and credible source, right?
Except, well, um,
Someone got played on this. And it probably wasn’t John Harwood
gbear
I will never vote for Obama again unless he can find a way to make it quit snowing in St. Paul today. It never snowed this much this early when Bush was president.
JMY
@Corner Stone
Fair enough, but I still take any anonymous source with a grain of salt. The problem is that people view these comments as a reflection of what the President thinks instead of the independent thoughts of someone who works in the administration. The administration consists of many individuals with differing ideas and opinions on certain issues so we look at a comment such as that and suddenly that’s what everyone in the WH thinks, so everyone in the WH must hate gays or bloggers. These types of controversies are what the media loves and we eat it up. I don’t agree with the words that were used, but in a larger context I understand the point that was trying to be made. And the negative reaction by some for the HRC speech and the bitching about the speech not being posted on the WH website when they probably could have went to YouTube or read a transcript from any other news site that covered the event proved that point.
The administration could do more for LGBT rights, but this overreaction and “Fuck you Obama” attitude, because DADT or DOMA were not repealed immediately upon him entering office is counter-productive. In regards to the DOJ briefs, I disagreed with the language and would have rather the DOJ not release a brief, but people were upset at Obama because the DOJ defended the law, when that is their responsibility to defend laws established by the U.S. Congress. When DOMA is repealed they will defend the repeal. But somehow, Obama hates gays and he thinks gays are comparable to pedophiles and incest. How is that fair? Another problem I have is the fact that people make it seem as if he hasn’t done anything in support of the LGBT community. Sure he can and will do more, but don’t sit there and act as if no progress has been made. The Matthew Shepard Act is going to pass and that is a big deal, but people won’t give the President credit or try to find something negative about it because DOMA and DADT are not repealed.
For as much as I love my fellow liberals and progressives, it pains me to see that some people are ready to give up and Obama has not even been president for a year. Instead of always yelling and cursing about what the president did or didn’t do, why don’t we take a page from the conservatives and go out to DC, go to town halls, write Congress, etc., and let our voices be heard (and do this all this with civility and respect).
Terri
This kind of bullshit, is why I quit hanging out with most of my fellow queers a long time ago. Since when did showing your ass get you anything other than negative attention, and the exact opposite of what you wanted?
Srsly, climb down off the cross Mary, we need the fucking wood.
edmund dantes
Lol. Yet we ignore the evidence that pressure is coming from somewhere to stop DADT from being repealed.
I wish Hastings would tell us who, but everyone is sitting here pretending like the Gay lobby is up in arms over nothing. “They should do the hard work. They should get congress to move legislation.” Yet they have done it, but it’s getting stymied by someone in the white house. If it was really a priority there was legislation for the White House to jump behind.
But Obama has this crisis or this crisis to deal with, please just bear with us. In a couple of months it will be, we have the mid-term elections to worry about. Then we can do something.
However it will then be Obama needs to get re-elected. Then the midterms again. Then getting the follow on Dem Pres elected. Then another.
FlipYrWhig
@Malron:
Absolutely. With Aravosis, those are probably the liberal blogosphere’s most relentless self-promoting careerists.
I don’t trust any of them, because they have so much more invested in making themselves Important Figures than in, um, truth. They like to throw shit because it makes people look at them. And they continue to throw shit because it makes them seem principled, which is why when they are criticized for said shit-throwing they can look down imperiously and say, “They hate me for my bravery.”
Ash
@wrb:
I like that he’s so passionate about everyone being able to do what they want in their private lives without the government giving a damn. Like aborti—
Oh, wait.
FlipYrWhig
That said, I disagree with the idea that it’s LGBT bloggers in particular who blow up these episodes. It’s the leftier-than-thou finger-waggers who think of themselves as uncompromising and heroic. Some of them are gay. More of them are purists and narcissists. All of them are ridiculous.
celticdragon
I’m all outraged out, so I’m not touching this one.
Get well soon, John, And best wishes :)
You Don't Say
Hope you feel better soon, John. No advice on remedies. Just lots of sleep.
calipygian
This sentence just works for me on so many different levels.
Malron
@John Cole: Got it. Standing down…
PhoenixRising
Because we can’t get those either. Mostly due to the rampant hypocrisy of Mormons and Catholics, who choose my ability to choose my next of kin as the Sin They Will Sacrifice to Stamp Out. Unlike abortion on demand, second (civil) marriages for straight couples, and the curb-stomping of undocumented immigrants in political debate and policy, the Love That Better Shut Up If We Know What’s Good For Us is worth getting a second mortgage to exclude from civil law.
SA2SQ, you’re welcome. (Also, you’re an ass. I’m not interested in using the right to join the military ’cause I think it’s bad for everyone, but you don’t see me tolerating rape of female soldiers on the rationale that they shouldn’t be there anyway.)
General Winfield Stuck
Chris Columbus gets lost and Glen Beck gets his own teevee show.
If you want me, I’ll be in the salad bar.
Brachiator
@Michael:
I guess I understand why there is not more outing, because no one wants to cause pain to someone they love, but damn, it creates some tortured hypocrisy.
I find it interesting to note that a number of journalists knew that Mark Foley was gay, and lived a parallel semi-open gay life in Florida, and figured that his private life was his own business.
But it is an open secret that there are numerous gay staffers working in Congress, and a number of closeted gay Senators and Representatives. Some do not actively support an anti-gay agenda, but the net effect is still the Big Lie that the Republican Party is the party of family values and that family means mainly white and totally heterosexual.
And the unnecessary acceptance of this Big Lie gives conservatives sufficient cover to work against civil rights and guarantees of dignity, and does as much damage as any foot-dragging by Obama and the Democrats.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Malron: I thought it was very funny.
kay
@wrb:
I can’t help it, I think this is very funny.
“For years I’ve said that the gay rights movement should rid itself of victimology and one-party reliance. The major obstacle has been the GOP itself.”
Andrew Sullivan realizes that the “major obstacle” to the GOP’s acceptance of equality has been…..the GOP itself.
What did he think it was? What else could it be?
gex
I think generally, I’ve accepted the fact that we are 10-15 years away from equality. We just need some old bigoted fuckers to die. Right now young, religious, conservatives are generally pro-gay. So we keep pressing the issue civilly, while we wait the haters out.
gwangung
@edmund dantes: Sorry, but that’s weak sauce, doncha think? You don’t want weakened DADT–you want to strike it entirely. Relaxing it probably makes it harder to remove it entirely (besides, do you trust someone who confuses gays with pedophiles? How do we know the “weakening” is not without its own problems?)
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
Yeah, GLBT people sometimes do engage in stupid, counterproductive behavior, and there’s not much doubt that Obama is the best friend that GLBT people have ever had in the White House. That’s not saying much.
And the insistence on getting the President to follow up on his campaign promises is no more counterproductive for gay people than it is for the (sometimes overlapping categories of) people who want economic restructuring, health-care reform or accountability for the crimes of the previous administration. It’s not a “betrayal” of this administration to noisily, publicly insist that it keep its commitments. Yet, only when GLBT people’s issues are under discussion do we get this whole “It’s just too divisive/counterproductive/expensive of political capital” shit from people who are all too happy to scream at the Obama administration about their own pet issues.
And the issue with DODT/DOMA isn’t what anybody on this damned forum (or anywhere else) thinks about marriage as a legal, religious, or social contract. It’s about whether your gay/lesbian/whatever fellow citizens have the same damned rights you do.
Meanwhile, a 49-year old gay man remains in an induced coma this morning as a result of getting beaten on the streets in what was “probably” a hate crime, according to the NYPD. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/12/us/AP-US-Gay-Man-Beaten.html?ref=global-home. I’m sure that, if he ever regains consciousness, he’ll be gratified to know that you ‘understand his frustration’, when you explain that he needs to stop agitating for equal rights “at the expense of you, me, and the administration.”
ricky
@gbear:
“And if Obama appreciates bloggers, maybe he should spend an hour or two here on a weekend afternoon having a Q&A with us.”
From a comment at Firedog Lake posted by “LooHoo.”
The White House today announced the president, after an
hour of productive Q & A on Fire Dog Lake with a blogger named LooHoo, would spend more quality time with world leaders named Bq43 X Marxalot.
Just Some Fuckhead
How does having the same military service rights and marriage rights stop other people from hating? Hell, you got people blowing up abortion clinics and murdering doctors who provide abortions 36 years after Roe v. Wade.
Michael
Its because the public face of gay activism is made up primarily of drama queen whiny assed titty babies who really don’t act in a way that engenders respect.
QED.
Allan
@geg6:
Nothing screams commitment like a veiled threat.
kay
@The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:
Every single group pressuring Obama on any issue has engaged in stupid and/or counterproductive behavior.
People feel passionately about the primary issue they voted on, and we’re not all professional lobbyists, thank God. We’re amateurs.
With the exception of environmentalists, in my opinion, but there’s still plenty of time for them to go off. Wait until the energy bill does or does not get drafted. We’ll see. PLENTY of time to see them storming the barricades.
gwangung
Honest question.
Do you not get that what folks are saying is NOT THE SAME as what you say they’re saying?
Bad Horse's Filly
You won’t get flamed by me, John. I’m so over this whole, Obama isn’t doing XYZ fast enough. The man has been in office for 9 months, he walked into an overflowing septic system of crap. Seems to me he’s moving in order of crisis. Works for me. By all means, hold him to his promises and make yourself heard (no matter what your issue is) but really, just shut the fuck up if all you have to say is he’s not doing it fast enough. I don’t care if it’s Wall Street, Gitmo, Health Care or DADT.
He can’t wave a magic wand and make the last 8 years disappear. It took us time to get this fucked up, it will, regardless of all your whining and temper tantrums, take us a while to get out of it. What’s called for right now is thoughtful discipline to get things done and as far as I can tell, Obama has that down cold. So until he shows me otherwise, I will remain patient and present, and let the man do the job we hired him to do.
/rant
gex
@The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion: You do realize that those thugs would have beat him regardless of what the existing state of marriage, DOMA, DADT laws are, right? I mean, 4 stars for rhetorical flourish, but it really isn’t germane to the issue at hand. I agree with the rest of your point – that for some reason complaining about the Administration is only counterproductive when gays do it, and that ours is the issue on which straight people agree political capital should not be spent, but it is what it is.
ricky
@Corner Stone:
Thanks for the link to Glenzilla. After getting past the promo’s for “My step daughter is dating a convicted rapist” I got to Greenwald’s work. It made me laugh so hard I spit up my cheetos. Fortunately I was wearing my footed PJ’s so my feet didn’t get cold on the tile when I went to clean my jammies up.
alien radio
@FlipYrWhig:
Correct. I’m also fairly suspicious of Kos and Arriana Huffington.
I’d consider myself in the “unacceptably left wing amongst left wingers” category and the neoclassical economic deal we’ve been screwed with infuriates me on a daily basis, but I’m not addicted to outrage, The outrage is always there when I wake up, when I go to sleep, it was there before I was born. The solution is to see what’s going on and make the changes you can rather than going purity troll or concern troll, DEBATING IS NOT ACTING.
Observe
Orient
Decide
Act
Comrade Darkness
@CT Voter: A symptom of victimization syndrome to be looking for conspiracy and insult in every random event. And it’s not healthy. Wake up call time.
Wile E. Quixote
@gex
And many of them, like Ted Haggard, are gay themselves. So that’s got to help out, right?
slag
I wish certain people would stop reminding us that the President is not a king while simultaneously pretending that the President is a king. I, like many of us, want to help the much-maligned gay agenda to fulfill its promise of true equality, but, as John said, it makes more sense to work proactively to get the law changed rather than reacting to overhyped anonymous slights.
@Ash:
And don’t even get me started on this.
JMY
@Bad Horse’s Filly
I’ve been saying this for month’s now: Bush, Jr. was given 8 yrs to completely fuck up this country. We had a chance after his first term to change this, yet he was given another 4 yrs. We can’t even give this president 9 months or one term to help better our nation without people panicking. There’s a reason why presidents are given 4yrs and a chance for another 4. I’m tired of people saying he has not done anything but give speeches. People act as though his Presidency ends Jan. 2010.
wrb
@kay:
This new one leaves me pretty much speechless:
Bad Horse's Filly
@Allan: That’s right, beat your friends up and when they say ‘enough is enough’ accuse them of lack of commitment. Fucker.
(Oh, my mouth today, obviously this has touched a nerve)
AhabTRuler
Yeah, I’m sorry, but Sully the Pooh is not a credible source for pretty much anything. Without engaging in ad hom about his queeniness (drama or otherwise), he simply engages in the classic conservative myopia of not understanding issues that don’t affect him directly.
kay
@wrb:
Everyone thinks they elected him. And everyone who voted for him is right in thinking that.
I encounter older, more conservative Democrats who feel they made a huge sacrifice nominating and then voting for Obama, because they love both Clintons.
They think they’re the long-term Democratic activists, and younger voters are fly by night, and likely to vote Republican next time a Reagan comes along.
So, there’s that.
Allan
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Obviously.
Ash
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Oh, but remember, Sullivan can’t really “accept” abortions, he only cares about things when it effects his nice little life with lots of money and vacation spots and fancy lawyers that can keep you out of jail.
Bad Horse's Filly
@Allan: I’m over 40 and just got lectured by my mother on my use of the F word. I held my tongue, but in my head, I said, ‘fuck you, ma’ and felt much better.
kay
@AhabTRuler:
I followed his ridiculous foray into tort reform debate, and watched as he airily dismissed the idea that someone who lost a leg due to medical mistake might need more than 250,000 in damages, over a lifetime. What world does he live in?
This from a person who thinks his immigration problems are a human rights tragedy requiring special emergency legislation.
Comrade Darkness
@Michael: 3. Gay men (in particular) aren’t as energized on progressive economics, as gay households are in a different league moneywise. They need to be involved in issues in addition to their emotional stake on marriage;
Based on random, sometimes drunken, conversations with gay friends and acquaintances, I’m thinking that 10 years from now when gay marriage is available everywhere and gay adoption is available everywhere, the politicians will all be out of the closet and 3/4 of the gay population will be registered republicans. But your sentiment is nice.
gbear
@gex:
Gex, I am 55 now. In 15 years I will be 70. That option really REALLY sucks.
kay
@Ash:
That’s what I objected to about his Trig fixation. Well, some of what I objected to. His complete disregard for privacy when it regards women.
Andrew Sullivan can’t think of single reason women might balk at releasing their obstetrical records? Imagine the precedent he’s setting with this? Christ. I don’t even want to know, Andrew. Best we not go there.
Allan
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Tell us more about your relationship with your mother.
Comrade Darkness
@gex: And if you’ve been on the economic blogs there’s been a lot of griping and outright sadness about Goldman Sachs owning the white house and woe is us that the Wall Street stuff looks unlikely to get cleaned up and perp walked like it deserves. But there are still calls to give the guy time, although, most people are not so emotionally invested and the tone is calmer all around, especially since that crowd is happy just to figure out how to make their own 2¢ off the situation.
Corner Stone
@ricky: So YOU’RE the one they were talking about at the WH!
I’ve been wondering who here wears footie pj’s. I would’ve put money on it being TZ but then Little Dreamer said something contrary to that, I think. I would repeat it but I’ve blocked it from my beautiful mind forever, lest I be traumatized.
To me, the GG piece was illuminating in that this WH has used The Left as a boogeyman many times, usually off-the-record. Just found the pattern interesting.
wrb
@kay:
I’m someone who thinks very highly of much of what Sully writes and who reads him daily.
I suppose this is in part because torture and the erosion of the rule of law are huge issues for me and he’s been as good a voice on those as anyone except maybe Scott Horton..
But he does periodically make an ass of himself, maybe no time more than right now.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Just Some Fuckhead: Civil rights legislation didn’t stop people from being bigots, either. Are you prepared to argue that the downturn in lynching incidents is in no way linked to the struggle to achieve legal recognition of the status of African Americans as equal citizens? @Michael: The face of gay activism currently addressing you in this public forum is that of a forty-four year old married man.
FlipYrWhig
To me, it’s illuminating that “The Left” really, really craves that feeling of being dismissed and demonized and bogeyman-ified, to the point where we go out of our ways to find it, because it confers the thrill of righteousness.
This whole thing with the HRC speech followed by the back hand at the protesters smells to me like liberal bloggers wanting to wrap themselves in the mantle of LGBT civil rights in order to seem like the swipe isn’t at the annoyingness of liberal bloggers but rather at gay people. Which is the kind of bait-and-switch tactic that further contributes to that very same annoyingness.
geg6
@PhoenixRising:
Besides the fact that the two things are not even equivalent, gay people who choose to join the military know going in that DADT is there. I’m not saying they shouldn’t join (though I wouldn’t if I were gay), but that are well aware of it and choose to do it anyway. As such, they have tacitly agreed to live at least partially closeted. Not my fault and not something I like. But it is what it is right now.
I’m so glad that people for whom I’ve personally fought and financed battles for are so gracious to those who wish them well. No good deed goes unpunished, my mother always said.
Just Some Fuckhead
@The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion: Yes.
ricky
@Corner Stone:
To me the GG piece was illuminating in that it demonstrates why the prinicples used in legal research and brief preparation can make GG look smart and Obama look bad when there is not an opposing side to counter.
Anonymous sources and anoymous posters are equally anonymous in my book. Some always want to diss the MSM until the MSM quotes someone anonymously attacking them personally. Then it is gospel.
I, of course, have a long list of times my sides and issues have been anonymously praised.
Corner Stone
@ricky: Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice I won’t be fooled again.
onceler
wow, very disappointingly large amount of homophobia here, both subtle and not so. very, very disappointing.
face it, Obama has been terrible on gay issues. backlash is entirely predictable. this post is pretty despicable.
geg6
@Allan:
And fuck you to you, too. I’ve been involved in gay rights, most likely, longer than you’ve been alive (perhaps not, but I know I’m one of the old people on this site). And I can say, with much thanks, that few of the people I’ve worked with in that area are assholes like you. That is why dimwits like you can’t chase me away from this particular war. But feel free to keep flaming away. I’m sure all those Americans who are on the fence will see your very brave and productive way of dealing with your allies and jump to join up.
Jeebus.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: I think we’re speaking past each other, or I’m doing a very poor job of detailing why I found the GG info interesting.
The collective butthurt of The Left and their attempt to project relevance is not what I found useful.
onceler
@JMY: no, not at all. people like you seem to get all apoplectic when people point out instances of Obama NOT reversing Bush’s terrible policies, and whinge on and on about how they’re “not giving him a chance.” bullshit. he has the chance now. you want people to just cheer and ‘rah rah’ and wave the big foam finger, no matter what he does. it’s no surprise that many here used to worship at the alter of George Bush as well. y’all are looking for infallible ‘leaders’ to tell you what to do and be perfect, and those of us who are skeptical or critical are ruining your party. well, I’m happy to help ruin your little party, because it’s a lame party. and politics isn’t a ‘party’ at all, it’s about enacting policies which make people’s lives better. when Obama succeeds at that, he gets praise. when he fails to do so, he gets criticized. except by people like y’all, who just cheer no matter what. y’all will be the ones to completely turn on him at some point anyways, just like with Bush. us skeptics and critics will remain as we are now. loyal when it’s deserved, and critical when it’s not.
Keith G
@geg6: Well done.
This particular heat is being generated by a certain segment of white male gays of an elite status who also seem inclined toward self-promotion.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Keith G:
Exactly. It’s the collision of white male privilege with a negative reality.
Dr. Loveless
@gnomedad:
FTW.
Allan
@geg6: You keep using the word “ally.” I do not think it means what you think it means.
You sound really interesting in an Asperger’s sort of way, but you’re hardly modeling any behavior that I would characterize as persuasive to those with whom you disagree.
Perhaps you’re just expressing your opinion and you don’t give a flying fuck about whether your every statement on a blog wins you a convert.
And perhaps I am too.
John said I am being a dick. But at least he recognizes that he is one too. And me? A dick? Well, duh!
If only you could embrace your inner dick you might not come off like such a self-righteous martyr yourself. You just declared that your issues are more important than other peoples’ issues. and people have been fighting for womens’ issues longer so get in line, then told those who disagree with you to go fuck themselves.
Good job!
JenJen
So sorry you’re still feeling awful, John. I haven’t checked the comments in your previous sickbed-threads, so maybe it’s already been ruled out, but I hope your doc checks you out for H1N1. A friend of mine came down with it, and luckily, the worst it did was knock her out of for two weeks. In her emails, she wrote that she knew she was really, really sick when she got better, and then got worse.
Thanks SO MUCH for all of your thoughts on HRC, et al. You’ve been echoing my frustration with the circular firing squad/impatience almost exactly.
Already voted for Bitsy today. :-)
gwangung
Probably closer than your idea, though.
Sorry…too much snark for lunch…
geg6
@Allan:
Um, no I didn’t. But you are obviously oblivious to any argument that isn’t “Allan is right about everything.”
I was simply saying that LGBT issues aren’t the only ones that need immediate attention. And that women have waited patiently for decades (hell, millenia) for our rights to be validated. And as the women’s movement learned to our regret was that shrill, scolding, angry diatribes don’t win converts.
As I said earlier, I am your ally (even though that word doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means). I have always been your ally and always will be. But, as I learned through the women’s movement, I don’t have to choose to ally myself with every single person in the movement. And, believe me, people with your attitude will NOT be the people I or anyone else chooses to work with to bring civil rights for LGBTs. I have no desire to get stomped on for trying to actually get results in a positive and rational way. It’s people like you who are more interested in having your tirades validated rather than actually getting anything done that do your cause a great disservice. You are the Andrea Dworkins of the LGBT cause.
Allan
@geg6: What part of “I’m a dick!” don’t you understand?
My comments here are not winning any converts to the cause of LGBT rights. They’re also not softening my hands while I do dishes.
You are pointing out that I am failing to do something that I am not setting out to do.
Thanks for letting me know I’m not doing that. That was helpful.
Corner Stone
@Allan:
Ancient Chinese secret huh?!
Oh wait, that was for laundry. And for the Chinee, not for the Ghei.
Won’t someone please just make a commerical out of all this so I’ll know what to buy/how to respond??
MJ
I may be a bit late weighing in here, but I hereby humbly nominate the above comment by Malron for the win…
Elie
Ya know, it ocurrs to me more and more that our current public discourse actually requires anger and betrayal as ongoing themes.
Making people angry and agrieved assures that they will click onto websites and post their anger and agrieved status and engage others who are also angry and agrieved or who disagree with the angry and agrieved.
In the short term, what’s the harm, right? All the blogs and what is left of the MSM and right wing blogs get lots of traffic. Who wants to post nice nice? Who wants just information without hysterics and melodrama?
The long term disaffection this will cause our society is another matter altogether.
We are as much part of this as any other group. Think about who is going to want to be in government to actually try to elevate discourse and build public community after this….
General Winfield Stuck
@Elie:
Not me. I’m in it for the jokes:)
Elie
General:
And I must say, you give us a few good ones from time to time. I really appreciate the wit and humor around here.. makes up some for my sense of despair…
Hmmm
@geg6:
“Oh, of COURSE the administration is putting out condescending anonymous remarks about people they expect support from. Who cares?!” Oh ok then, so business as usual justifies itself. Gotcha. So next time they sell us out on any other issue you’ll be here to tell people who’re concerned that they’re foolish for not seeing it coming all along eh? I take it the only time people get to express disappointment is when they don’t see it coming.
Whatever John, you and the vast majority of your commentators are seriously full of shit on this one. You wrote just the other day (while trying a bit harder to straddle the fence than you are now, apparently) that if you were gay and found yourself without equal rights (aka: if you were gay) you’d be out blowing things up and killing people. So apparently that’s a reasonable response but getting upset about the content of a speech or the timing of its posting isn’t? Cut the shit John, the people who’re pissed at Obama over this are expressing frustration caused by a pattern of behavior (see: DOMA brief etc) not an isolated incident, just like your identity as a hypothetically-violent gay rights extremist would be.
Geg summed up what seems to be the prevailing attitude around here: “sit down and shut up, we’ll pay lip service to marriage equality but in the end it just isn’t ‘all that important’ to us and while we’ll accept you demonstrating or whatever you better not say anything to mess up Obama’s poll numbers in doing so.” I’m not even gay and that looks like a typically-chickenshit Democratic response. Personally I’m not prepared to sit back and watch the Dems hold a gun to the country’s head any longer. You all can say “wait and see, wait and see” all you want. I’m at the “show me or lose my support” stage.