I kept meaning to post this, but I forgot. At any rate, after watching the Daily Show piece about CNN “leaving it there” yesterday, I then saw this exchange on Hardball and my jaw hit the ground:
MATTHEWS: The Republican Party was in office and controlled for a while there both houses, as well as the White House, and you have enjoyed periods during your tenure as a senator when the Republicans had the upper hand. Why didn‘t you take the opportunity when you did to extend health coverage to a larger number of Americans?
HATCH: Well, keep in mind, I think a lot of us wanted to do that. But I‘ve been in the Senate 33 years, we‘ve never had a fiscal conservative majority in the Senate in my whole time, other than through great presidential leadership, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II. Even Clinton from time to time would do some fiscally conservative things. But we never really had the votes to really do what would really be a health reform bill that I think would work.
Putting aside the fact that if they had any interest whatsoever in passing a health bill, they could have, but my favorite part there is how he calls Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 “fiscal conservatives.” Maybe people’s memories have faded enough that he could slip Reagan and Bush 1 in there, but Bush 2 a fiscal conservative? How did he not burst out into laughter? And how did Matthews not throw something at him?
CraigoMcL
Is it really such a stretch to list George H. W. Bush as a fiscal conservative?
No argument as to the other two.
simonee
Just your average attempt at historical revisionism by the Republican Party. It’s their specialty.
Nylund
I think this chart needs to be added to the post to highlight just how ridiculous this claim is.
schrodinger's cat
John needs a TV show, I would definitely watch.
General Winfield Stuck
This classic Hatch horseshit. I didn’t see the segment, but he usually only delivers this crackhead kind of rhetoric unless he’s there without a dem to rebut it. He’s a pathological liar at least when it comes to politics. But there are much more malignant wingnuts in the Senate, and that is his saving grace, if twer was one.
OT
Been thinking about politics in this country and trying to find a scientific model that applies to simplify things and Newton’s Three Law of Motion works for me.
Constructive Activism and such
Tea Bagging Town Halls and other over mathy nuttiness.
Hasty Pudding Politics, Elections, and diaper whoring, et al
calipygian
That Hatch would call Bush II a “fiscal conservative” and then say that “even Clinton did some fiscally conservative things” demonstrates that the man has an IQ of 12.
What self-described “fiscal conservative” in his right fucking mind wouldn’t take Clinton over Bush II in a heartbeat?
The Moar You Know
Like the big steaming pile of bullshit Hatch squatted down and dumped on the desk right in front of him? My bet is that Chris is used to eating it and asking for more, rather than throwing it back.
DougJ
I think he’s not that wrong on Bush 1. St. Ron and Dubya, though, that’s bullshit.
The Grand Panjandrum
Revisionist history is such that so long as you are cutting programs other than defense, busting up unions, and cutting taxes you are a fiscal conservative. The bottom line is irrelevant. BTW of that entire crowd the only one who could claim that title is Clinton. The rest of them were a bunch of spendthrifts with the Former Cheerleader and His Gang of War Criminals the most egregious offenders.
But alas Orrin Hatch is a doddering old fool who should retire to Utah and hope like hell the seagulls don’t return to feast on his nasty old carcass.
Zifnab
So you just kinda slapped Medicare Plan C and Plan D together and shipped’m out there.
God, I don’t even want to know what horror Orrin Hatch would have put together if he “had the votes”. Something makes me suspect it would not fit the textbook definition of fiscally conservative.
Midnight Marauder
Probably because “fiscal conservatives” is a fucking oxymoron and has been that way for decades.
And edited for more of that Kurtzism goodness.
Keith
So is that an admission by Hatch that the GOP is incapable of either extending health care *or* exercising fiscal conservatism, regardless of whether or not they control Congress?
dmsilev
Chris Matthews almost never calls BS on powerful guests. He’ll happily beat up on some state-level legislator, or a back-bencher in the House, but he’s a pretty consistent brown-noser when it comes to the Senate and well-known Reps.
His show really should be renamed “Hairball”.
-dms
JGabriel
OT. Don’t know how many are interested, but this looks like possible further evidence for puntuated equlibrium. Oddly, the CNN article mentions “a controversial theory of evolution”, but doesn’t mention punk eke by name.
Interesting, nonetheless. If you’re into that kind of thing.
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General Winfield Stuck
@JGabriel:
Wabbits
calipygian
Not St. Ron. Ronaldus Magnus.
The Republicans would fuck up a pot of boiling water, I fucking swear to Christ.
Anne Laurie
Shorter Orrin Hatch: Conservatism can never fail, it can only be failed!
I know people profess to be surprised that so many high-ranking Mormons are very successful businessmen, but it always seemed to me that Joseph Smith’s golden tablets were custom-designed for the Robber Barons, American Exceptionalism Division. Moroni’s chosen can do whatever is necessary to succeed against the infidel, and if at first they don’t succeed, scrap the rulebooks and start the clock over, because the godly don’t have to respect the opposition’s opinions or autonomy.
WyldPiratd
This shit about Ronnie Raygun and the Bushies—hell, Rethugs in general—being fiscally conservative drove me out of the Rethuglican Party.
For FSM’s sake, each of them doubled the deficit on their watch.
The motherfuckin GOP is ORwellian. Up is truly down to them.
Napoleon
@JGabriel:
Cool, I have long thought that P.E. was true.
de stijl
All Republicans are fiscal conservatives. It’s one one of those ipso facto things.
MikeJ
The senate has never had a majority made up of true Scotsmen.
JGabriel
@The Grand Panjandrum:
B-b-b-but, Clinton was only able to balance the budget because of Reagan! And Clinton did it in such a way that his spending only became apparent under Bush! Nyah! Nyah!
Waaahhh!
.
The Bearded Blogger
@dmsilev: “lickball”, or maybe “paintball” in that the shots don’t really hurt.
Warren Terra
My comment, more or less. Bush 1 could have been a bit tighter – iirc, he didn’t really decrease the deficit – but he was at least serious about it, and passed a modest tax raise after pledging not to. He set the groundwork for Clinton to erase the deficit – which, apparently, set the deficit for Dubya to p!ss it all away. Le sigh.
General Winfield Stuck
George Bush and his wingnut congress forever proved that there is no fiscal conservatism. Their is only pontification and winning the next election to hold on to power in whatever way works. See extinct permanent GOP majority and the unpaid for Great Prescription Drug Profit Company Act.
Warren Terra
fixt.
General Winfield Stuck
their- there-they’re. Someday.
The Bearded Blogger
@Anne Laurie: You know, the GOP thought it had mormonism on a leash… it’s turning out to be the other way around… GOP style protestantism is getting more mormon by the hour.
@JGabriel: A huge deficit is good for fiscal conservatism, because it helps starve the beast… unless the deficit is caused and/or reduced by a democrat, in which case it is irresponsible… repug logic is based on contradictions, and as Duns the Scot proved, you can deduce anything from a contradictory premise.
Xecky Gilchrist
I‘ve been in the Senate 33 years, we‘ve never had a fiscal conservative majority in the Senate in my whole time…
Damn right his memory ain’t so great – he originally ran on the slogan “eighteen years is long enough.” We Utah old farts remember that one very well, Borin’ Orrin.
calipygian
@Warren Terra: I guess that explains that rash and unexplained skin peeling on Newt Gingrich’s cock.
That and banging every intern that’s ever been to his office, even marrying one of them.
Newt Gingrich – so for marriage between a man and a woman, he’s done it three times.
BruinKid
Though right now, Matthews is doing a decent job exposing the hypocrisy of two of the teabaggers. Nailed one on his hypocritical support of the Iraq War.
donovong
That’s what you get for watching Tweetie. The depths of his stupidity are exceeded only by his instantaneous whiplash- inducing hard right turns in the middle of a sentence.
Jon Stewart’s only mistake the other night was in throwing only CNN under the bus. Every fucking one of them do it, with the possible exception of Maddow.
JGabriel
The Grand Panjandrum:
Umm, are there seagulls in Utah? I mean, it’s pretty far from the sea …
Maybe the Common Loon could peck upon him? Apparently, it’s fairly common in Utah.
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gnomedad
Needed: MSM Lost-and-Found.
Xecky Gilchrist
Umm, are there seagulls in Utah? I mean, it’s pretty far from the sea …
Not only are there seagulls here, they’re the state bird.
Warren Terra
I’m pretty sure this is an allusion to Mormon theology – I suspect Google could give me a hand, if I truly cared.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
Reagan and Bush I and II were indeed fiscal conservatives.
Fiscally conservative = Fiscally irresponsible.
Liberals need to quit saying that fiscally conservative is a good thing. It is not.
BruinKid
As for the second teabagger, the guy from South Carolina who says Lindsey Graham is a RINO (!!!), Matthews got him saying that he would like a Palin-DeMint 2012 ticket. But Matthews went for the easy stuff by citing the Katie Couric interview.
A much more effective question would’ve been to ask the guy about the economic state Palin left Alaska in, with that fund decimated, because the guy cited fiscal matters as his primary reason for supporting her. But I guess it’s a bit difficult to bring up the numbers right away in a live interview.
Chuck Butcher
I watch Hardball, without being a Matthews fan, but the thing is that those who do watch the show wouldn’t tend to be political neophytes – they might even remember GWB.
If you take it as a given that having a Republican on his show means that every other sentence couldn’t stand up to fact checking, he’d spend more interview time saying “BS” than he would in getting answers of some sort. Matthews isn’t a news reporting show though an actual name for it escapes me.
Warren Terra
Oh, if only DeMint would make more news, so this link would be more useful.
slippy
I one time picked through my library (this was before Teh Internetz were generally available) in college to look up all of the bills that had been authored to increase the debt limit. This was Early Clinton, and Rush Limbaugh was promoting the stupid garbage-tastic lie that Democrats always increased the deficit. I had found in a book where Reagan had farted out the utter ridiculousness in one of his speeches that his predecessor had extended the debt limit like 19 times. I found 21 such resolutions signed by Fucktard Ronnie, by the way. I also took trouble to understand the matter of who was in charge when. Repugs owned the Senate for all but two years of Reagan’s failtastic losership of a term, and during that time they blew up a massive deficit balloon. That was Republicans who were the fuck in charge back then.
Hatch’s assertion is just god-damned stupid. It’s more goal-post shifting from a party that plays fucking Calvinball. First they’ll tell us they want “conservatives,” and when that obviously didn’t work out they way they say it did, they change the definition to some nebulous horseshit that nobody can really put a finger on. What an asshole.
And Matthews is a twat and should be diverted to digging ditches for the rest of his life. He doesn’t merit any greater responsibility. What a douche.
LoveMonkey
“Leaving it there” is the hallmark of the modern media.
NBC “left it there” when GWB said that maybe the WMDs had been moved to Syria. Just moved on, without batting an eye. Tim Russert, to be exact. Never even blinked.
TV political talk is Kabuki. It is not actually a method for getting at any particular facts.
Why keep pretending that it is, or is intended to be?
Politicians go on these shows because they have no fear of being exposed. They are there to deliver talking points, get a pass at the food table, maybe invite the host to a party or a luxury box at the football game.
slippy
@Chuck Butcher:
Maybe infotainment would work, if any info were contained, but since it’s not, it’s just an entertaining gab-fest between people who know fuck-all about anything.
Comrade Dread
In comparison to Bush II, anyone is a fiscal conservative. Even Reagan.
But, IIRC, one of the reasons why Bush I was thrown out was because the base became disenchanted with him because he was fiscally conservative and raised taxes on them.
slippy
@LoveMonkey: Tim Russert. I was in an airport when his fat face started showing up on TV screens, and by the time I got back home the liberal interblogs were afire with condemnation for anyone who dared speak ill of Russert.
4,000+ US soldiers probably disagreed from their holes in the dirt, because Russert was a hack and a fraud, and a loser of a journalist. Had he shown even a smidgeon of incredulousness at the power-mongers I might have given him a pass, but frankly I shit on his life’s work. It was a waste, Timmeh. May you be long-remembered for your miserable failures.
linda
the only people tweety is interested in holding accountable are the dirty fucking hippies who insist on progressive policies and the slut/whores who find themselves pregnant and want to get an abortion.
tweety exists to give unfettered airtime to lying republican assholes — even as he tries to rebrand himself as anti-bushie and pro-obama.
freelancer
@BruinKid:
I’d be on my hands and knees praying for this, they wouldn’t even win the Midwest, but I think the CNN/Cable coverage of “the undecided voting bloc” in a contest over Obama/Biden vs Palin/DeMint would be enough to make me eat my gun.
liberal
Well, Bush 1 in conjunction with the Congressional Democrats did help create the Budget Enforcement Act, which was the first real progress on constraining spending.
Of course, re the other Rethuglican presidents, not so much.
Chuck Butcher
@slippy:
It is political talk of some sort and there is information to be gleaned. It is not NEWS.
Pretending that Tweetie is all junk is as sensible as calling TDS a news show. I like this Blog and I learn things here, from Cole, et al and the commenters, is this all a real serious news source? Hell no Tweetie isn’t as left as I am, but I doubt Rachel is either and so?
Knowing what insiders think and do is important, they may be obstructionist and in need of real change, but this is what we deal with and need to know about if we mean to do something about it. If what they say to Tweetie pisses you off, great. More is better.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@donovong:
Olbermann has a verbal tic which is the opposite of “Leaving it there”. He signs off each segment with a pithy summary or quick joke based on the preceding conversation with his guest, and he will stick it in there as if it is an accurate summation of what he and the guest have just agreed upon even if his “point” is flat out contradicted by most of what his guest just said. It may not be as bad as letting the guest take a massive dump at the end of the conversation and then just leaving it there but it is still annoying. I’m surprised nobody has called him on it.
schrodinger's cat
@schrodinger’s cat:
I also have a name for the potential show. It could be called Tunch’s Paw of Doom, and the most stupid politician would get that award.
BTW how is the blog owner aka Tunch the mighty kitteh? and how is his minion? All better or still recovering from the cold?
jrg
By George, I think Orrin might be onto something.
Perhaps he should draft up some sort of “Contract with America” to get fiscal conservatives elected. Then the federal government would stop wasting all that gosh-darn money.
…at least until the constituents of the “fiscal conservatives” start worrying about gay dictators on Jupiter with WMDs. Then it’s a national security issue, and all bets are off.
Banotmo
Chris Matthews does a crap job as a journalist, and anyone is surprised?
Calouste
The term “fiscal conservatism” makes sense if you interpret “conservatism” to mean “protection of the upper class”. Not if you follow dictionary definitions that mention caution or restraint.
handy
And get onto the real business of appointing a special prosecutor to investigate how Obama had sexual relations with Acorn.
Zifnab
@Banotmo: We’re not protesting in shock. We’re just cataloging.
When the revolution comes, everyone is going to be required to read a list of their crimes before they go up against the wall. Chris might actually appreciate what we’re doing for him. His could take weeks.
John Cole
I read a book that discussed Dick Darman and Bush 1 and the goings on around the budget and the negotations, but for the life of me I can not remember who wrote it or what it was called.
LD50
Okay, I predict that this is the main thread that Make Wee will stink up this afternoon. And for today, I predict her to kick off with her ‘change the subject’ strategy, probably featuring an attack of some kind on Clinton’s sex life, or perhaps something about liberals and ‘class warfare’. I can’t wait!
alien radio
@LD50:
Right winger:Our problem is you’re engaged in a class war with us
Left Winger: Our problem with is that we’re not.
cat48
Wasn’t this conversation interrupted because the president started speaking? I was watching and I seem to remember Chris cutting him off to go to Obama.
Malacylpse
But I‘ve been in the Senate 33 years, we‘ve never had a fiscal conservative majority in the Senate in my whole time, other than through great presidential leadership, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II.
So, in 33 years, he’s never had the leadership he liked, except for the 20 years that he did.
de stijl
And get onto the real business of appointing a special prosecutor to investigate how Obama had sexual relations with Acorn.
Did you see how ACORN was dressed? She was totally asking for it.
Chad N Freude
@Anne Laurie:
This is not limited to Mormonism. But you knew that.
Chad N Freude
@Chuck Butcher:
It’s a blathering and interrupting show. I do think he interrupts both Republicans and Democrats equally. Someday he will suffer a momentary lapse and one of his interviewees will actually get to finish expressing a thought. Even when I agree with Matthews I find him impossible.
Chad N Freude
@slippy: I think that the Republican Rewriters of History(tm) actually believe what they say. They combine the unreliability of human memory with zero fact checking and wrap the result in a political agenda.
Chad N Freude
@John Cole: Thanks, John. That was helpful.
Chuck Butcher
@Chad N Freude:
All the egos on that show could use some manners
de stijl
I think that the Republican Rewriters of History™ actually believe what they say.
Remember in 2002-2003 when everything had to be renamed as Reagan x?
Ronald Reagan Memorial Stop N Shop.
They even wanted to rename Alzheimer’s as Reagan’s Disease.
It was this weird sort of fetish back in the day.
Mike in NC
Grover Norquist must DIAF
de stijl
Or DIALMOBAI(N)
(Die In A Laundromat Owned By An Iranian (Naturalized))
LD50
@de stijl:
That was actually my idea.
Ken J.
Bush I did call Reagan’s economic plans “Voodoo Economics” when Bush I was running in the 1980 primaries. This led to a memorable Doonesbury strip when Bush I was nominated to be Reagan’s running mate:
“How long does it take to renounce everything you’ve ever stood for?”
“At least 72 hours. The paperwork is incredible!”
Cat G
@de stijl: For all the Republican blathering about Dems thinking Obama’s being “The One” etc, it’s the R’s who regularly engage in hagiography. Reagan is Exhibit A. But they were still hero-worshipping Bush well into his 2nd term, probably until about the 2006 mid-terms.
asiangrrlMN
@schrodinger’s cat: And he needs to have us on as guests. Heh.
Cole! I hope you’re feeling better. Tunch!!!!!
@de stijl: I vaguely remember some idiot Republican congressperson talking about carving St. Ronnie’s head into Mt. Rushmore. Anyone remember who that was, or am I just hallucinating again?
JenJen
For today’s impressive feat, Matthews let a Teabagger-in-Chief claim that “close to 2 million” attended the 9/12/09 rallies in DC. He didn’t even blink.
Other than the continuing 9/12/09 Mythology, it was an entertaining segment.
OriGuy
@Warren Terra:
Folklore, not theology; although, with Mormons, it can be hard to tell the difference.
The Miracle of the Gulls
Bulworth
“But I‘ve been in the Senate 33 years, we‘ve never had a fiscal conservative majority in the Senate in my whole time…”
Conservatism never fails. It only has been failed.