I feel like I have been down this road before:
The only thing missing is an anonymous quote from John Harwood. So let’s see how this plays out. By the end of the day, everyone throw eggs at the Administration, and particularly blame it on Rahm (he is evil, dontcha know!). Maybe we can join with the Republicans and chant “just words” and write long posts claiming Obama is selling us out. Then, tomorrow, when the administration says that they still strongly support a public option, we can all pat ourselves on the back and say “See, they listened! Keep the pressure up, guys!”
Metatron
Grabs popcorn.
cleek
Dan Rhiel only wishes he could start a blogstorm.
Ash Can
Rumors and innuendo make the world go ’round in Washington D.C., so this strikes me as no big deal. In addition, if I’m surmising correctly from the teeny-tiny type, this blurb was written by Dan Riehl, which alone makes it suspect. Even though it’s early and I haven’t had nearly enough caffeine yet, I’m detecting a strong whiff of horse manure.
Patrick Lightbody
I’m much more curious at how long it’ll take for the tea baggers to start ripping on the new medical marijuana policy, despite the fact that it is exactly what they claim to want (less Fed, more state).
SenyorDave
Dan Riehl wrote it? Was he still in a rage after giving an imaginary smackdown to one of those “technical thugs” he saw on the Washington metro system?
After that overtly racist column, and combined with the smear of the census worker killed in Kentucky, a douche like Riehl should never be taken seriously. Riehl is like a less credible version of Ann Coulter, if that’s possible.
David
Reading the Tea Leaves
“If the Obama administration had taken the position that the public option had to be in any bill they would sign, there could have been no progress in passing a bill through the Finance Committee and no credible negotiations with any Republican senators.”
. . .
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/10/19/163/15664
Rhoda
I saw on Morning Joe that Mika talked to Valerie Jarrett after her MTP interview and the WH is pushing for the senate to pass a public option. I guess Jarrett didn’t want to say she was demanding anything from Reid.
Morbo
@SenyorDave: No, Joe Sudbay at AmericaBlog wrote it; Riehl is no doubt just trumpeting it as proof of… something, proof of the White house falling apart? I dunno. The actual words walking back the public option supposedly come from Rahm. But they really aren’t walking it back, just a wishy-washy quotation. On top of that, the quote in the blockquote doesn’t actually appear in the article he links to. So Sudbay is either incompetent or deceptive in his linking to the NY Times.
Incertus
This is why my blogging has been reduced to football picks and youtube videos lately–I just don’t have the patience for it anymore. Well, that and the ever-growing stack of grading from this part of the semester.
Kristine
Then, tomorrow, when the administration says that they still strongly support a public option, we can all pat ourselves on the back and say “See, they listened! Keep the pressure up, guys!”
I get whiplash and depression from reading the other progressive/lefty/whatever blogs. Then I come here for a dose of sanity.
Although I will admit that Rahm does not make my heart go pitty-pat. And I fear to ponder what will come out the other end of the legislative meat grinder.
Until then, *coffee*. Now hooked on Community Coffee, especially the Evangeline and Brazil blends, thanks to others on this blog who rec’ed the company.
Comrade Jake
Ah yes, the left-wing blogosphere. We have our share of cheese dicks. I blame France.
Ash Can
@Morbo: OK, I stand corrected on the authorship. As you imply, though, the aroma of horse manure is still there.
numbskull
Should’ve started with single-payer at the his opening gambit, THEN compromised to an option. Well, nobody’s perfetc.
donovong
@Rhoda: “I saw on Morning Joe that Mika talked to Valerie Jarrett after her MTP interview and the WH is pushing for the senate to pass a public option. I guess Jarrett didn’t want to say she was demanding anything from Reid.”
Well, Number One, Jarrett is in no position to “demand” anything from anybody. She is an advisor to the President, not some enforcer from the White House. Number Two, who the heck listens to anything Mika says about anything?
Listening to Mika is worse than getting medical advice from Suzanne Somers.
asiangrrlMN
I think Rahm is a hottie. What? I’m bored with rumors and innuendos from Washington ‘insiders’. Contemplating the hotness of Rahm is much more interesting to me.
Keith G
In somewhat related news, a former Obama campaign center (with appropriate external art work) is vandalised here in Houston.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/21335242/detail.html
Max
It’s so tiresome and the reason why I have stopped visiting a lot of blogs.
I hope that we aren’t subject to the hysterics for the next 7 years, but I suspect we will be.
Keith G
@Kristine: That’s it! You are a genius!
I’ve heard that the main issue with the public plan is the name. Pundits have suggested a rebranding. So, let’s call it community coffee.
Shouldn’t everyone have community coffee? Who can be against community coffee?
iu1995
I’ve just about had it with AmericaBlog. The hyperventilating over everything is way past old.
Leelee for Obama
@Incertus: THanks, my Friend! This is somewhat where I am. I post on some things and just ” keep on walking” on others. I fI had a dollar for every time we’ve been told the WH is “selling us out” I wouldn’t need to be figuring out how to get back to work in a recession. It’s just getting too exhausting-not here, cause we’re all pretty smart people, but GOS is just painful, and HuffPo is just a stop off for me to get to articles I might want to read. Shrill-you know?
PanAmerican
Certain quarters scan uncomfortably like a bit from the Blues Brothers.
jon
What I don’t understand so much is that the public plan or the semi-public option or the private subsidy plan or the throw it all in a bag and hope for something useful plan is entirely up to the Congress right now. It’s a matter of the House and the Senate to figure out what’s acceptable to the few Senators who can stop it all in its tracks, not the President.
Obama will sign what comes to his desk, period. He’s not going to send this back for revision, though there will be plenty in the years to come. What the Administration is doing is pushing for progress, not so much for specifics. The public option will happen when it is proven to be more efficient. And if it isn’t, we’re all screwed anyhow.
The Saff
@Max: Yeah, me too. I do frequent DailyKos to see what the front pagers are posting but I much prefer Balloon Juice (for the commentary, humor, and cats and dogs!). I gave up reading all there is to read about the healthcare debate long ago because it was too depressing.
inkadu
@Keith G: We don’t want any of your communist coffee here, Keith. You can take that kind of talk back to Russia. We’re fine with our Folgers crystals.
General Winfield Stuck
Since becoming self aware, I just skip all this pearl clutching dramaplay and just stay on permanent “told ya so”. Saves so much time and head butting me desk.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
@Keith G:
Who could be against a community organizer?
SenyorDave
The problem was the starting point. Instead of public option, the initial name should have been pureed puppie brains. Then public option would have been the easy compromise.
Leelee for Obama
@General Winfield Stuck: Yeah, that’s what happens after you spend years with your head meeting desks or walls. The headaches just aren’t worth it. Since my advanced degree in being a progressive for almost 6 decades is nearing completion, I just wait until there is something truly outrageous to get outraged about. My meter was really spiking from 2001-2009, anyone got any idea why? Seems I hit a burnout….
Leelee for Obama
@SenyorDave: I’m so glad my coffee wasn’t ready yet-that’s funny! I’ve cleaned my monitor three or four times this past week.
General Winfield Stuck
Compromise? The wingnuts would have jumped at it with knife and fork and passed it in a heartbeat. They live on pureed puppie brains, and we might even have slipped in some whirled peas amendment.
valdivia
Yes it is very tiresome. Every week Obama is declared Teh Fail and the cycle is repeated. And it happens so often that I think those outraged and feeling betrayed even forget what they were screaming about a few months ago.
Example–medical marijuana. Today they release the new guidelines and I am waiting with baited breath to hear all of those people who said Obama was just being a DLCer who was going to betray them because he did not change this in March or whenever it was people were screaming about this. Does it ever occur to people who get upset and outraged that there are reasons of process why things happen at certain times?
Sigh. This is why I come here because nowhere do people seem to realize this. And to vote for Bitsy.
Max
@valdivia: Head over to Talk Left. The “Free Roman” crowd over there is already on it for you. As a bonus, they are also linking to this very post by @JohnCole and apparently, we are all O-bots.
matoko_chan
Cheer up Dr. Cole.
The Rock Obama will rip their arms off.
Dude, he means to do that….
We just get flashes…..he sees the plans.
General Winfield Stuck
@Leelee for Obama:
I can hardly stand to click on Memerandum anymore for the level of mind numbing wankery from both sides of the isle. The wingnuts want Obama to be more like Bush on policy, and the left more like Bush on style.
Uloborus
Well, since this is semi- on topic, I’m going to ask a question that’s puzzling the bejabbers outta me. Why does anyone care about Baucus’s finance committee plan?
That isn’t snark. Honestly, people care. Why? What is it’s relevance? There are other bills, I know. Half the reporting I see treats it like the only bill that matters. The other half laugh at it as inconsequential. I am inclined to discount any reports the white house intends to back it. If they said that months ago, they’re not bound and it’s not their decision anyway.
The only other thing I’ve heard, like maybe once or twice, is that somehow Baucus must pass something for the process to go ahead. Is that true? Why? Congress has labyrinthine rules of procedure I do not grasp, and in the middle of this debate I’m afraid to try and look them up for fifty million bitchy screeds from both sides. But if, somehow, nothing can be done without that committee’s vote, the existence of other bills suggests we’re not bound to his godawful watered down mess. So… IS it important somehow? Why?
matoko_chan
Max, I am a MUPpet.
;)
Leelee for Obama
@General Winfield Stuck: Me, I’m just happy if he’s Obama. I may be naive, so there’s that; but I really think he’s letting the process play itself out and waiting for the perfect moment to squash the fly. This man has spent too many years succeeding to let this opportunity be wasted.
valdivia
@Max:
Oh goodie! We are obamabots. Better than pearl clutching fainters I think.
inkadu
— Geoffrey Taylor
The phrase started as “bated breath” or “abated breath” which is just breath that is held in.
I wouldn’t usually be such a pedant about it, but I always wondered what exactly “baited breath” was and why anyone would be waiting with it.
And now you know.
source: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bai1.htm
Kristine
@Keith G:
Make it “Community Coffee + Chocolate,” and you’ll have it. Bipartisan, doncha know. 80+ votes in the Senate, easy.
valdivia
@Leelee for Obama:
exactly. This is how he operates. It baffles me that people keep falling for the 24 hour cycle thing and don’t see that his style is something completely different.
Steeplejack
@valdivia:
Thanks for reminding me. Just voted and pushed her up to 648 for the week.
valdivia
@inkadu:
thank you. My spelling is atrocious even with the edit button. hhis.
jon
@Kristine: Unfortunately, with 30 Senators* voting for pro-rapist provisions in government-funded private employment contracts, I wouldn’t expect more than 65 votes from the Senate.
*all of whom are Republican, white, and men, by the way.
matoko_chan
Inkadu, i think the reference originally comes from falconry…..when a hawk leaps off the falconer’s fist with the jesses still tied that is called bating…..and results in the hawk or falcon hangin’ upsidedown from the fist and spinning.
bate became bait because that is a more modern word that also has a connotation……..like race-baiting, ie bait for racists.
Leelee for Obama
@valdivia: You forgot, also! Too!
What surprises me is the energy they have! I can’t stay at high dudgeon level for days and weeks on end. It wears me out.
General Winfield Stuck
Fishes halitosis.
myiq2xu
Obama puts the “flop” in flip-flop.
Let’s just pray that HCR passes on an even-numbered day so the public option is in it.
General Winfield Stuck
@myiq2xu:
Well looky here, the proto dead ender PUMA crawls up from the primordial ooze.
Leelee for Obama
Uh -oh! myiq2xu is using a simile. Must’ve had Wheaties for breakfast!
inkadu
@The Saff: DailyKos gives me agita.
@matoko_chan: So the connotation is your breath can’t go anywhere, with the possibility that it’s spinning around…
Of course, there is the more modern “bate” from “masturbate” which suggests the breath is moving rather quickly and will soon smell bad.
SiubhanDuinne
@numbskull:
LOL
SixStringFanatic
I haven’t even been to AmericaBlog in years. A couple years ago, they changed the layout of their page so that the advertising and “about us” and whatever-the-hell-else sidebars took up half of the page width, leaving only half of the page for actual blog entries. I sent them an email in which I voiced my opinion that this was a bit much and that maybe the content of a blog should take up just slightly more than half of the screen’s real estate. I received in return a righteous screed about how websites aren’t run for free and how exactly did I expect them to provide all of this wonderful content especially when I had no intentions of paying for it myself and if I didn’t like what they had done with their page I didn’t have to read it. Never once did I suggest that they shouldn’t have advertising, nor had I failed to note the distinction between ad sidebars and “about us/links/shit we like” bars but I did take their suggestion and quit visiting them. And I am happier for that choice.
matoko_chan
lol @ inkadu
nah, i think held-breath came from abated, stopped breath.
bating off the falconer’s fist with jesses tied is stopped motion i guess.
but i like the imagery of wingnuts leapin’ furiously to the attack to only hang upsidedown and spin.
;)
Steeplejack
@inkadu:
No, you had it right before. It’s from the old verb to bate, which means to restrain or reduce the intensity of. That’s why winds are always abating.
Now don’t get me started on “butt naked” vs. “buck naked.”
valdivia
so a little confession here since this seems to be an origin of words thread–even if I have terrible spelling (hey this is not my first language so a little understanding) I love reading the OED and seeing where words come from. I know, nerdy, what can you do.
Leelee for Obama
Me, too! Somehow it seems the perfect image to make a morning better.
And the leaping thing makes me wish for a Twelve Days of Wingnut” type of parody!
lol
@42: The same players freaked out on the campaign trail as well because he was focusing on winning elections instead of news cycles and the hearts and minds of bloggers.
inkadu
@matoko_chan: Bating off a fist… Falconers must have been popular back in the day. The gloves are an especially nice touch.
inkadu
@valdivia: My seventh-grade English teacher would approve of your methods. For one whole year I couldn’t learn a word without learning it’s latin (then Old French) or Anglo-Saxon root.
I actually enjoyed it, I must admit, and missed that approach when I was learning other foreign languages… But other languages aren’t the fat bastard offspring of many mothers as english is. It would probably read:
Steeplejack
@valdivia:
Nothing wrong with that. It’s one of my favorite things to do.
And English spelling is completely screwed up, especially compared to Spanish. No blame there.
JHF
If they pass a bill w/o a government health plan for anyone who wants to join but include a mandate to buy insurance from pirates & thieves, then they’re as loony as jaybirds, will lose the next election, and aren’t worth my time.
If they pass a bill WITH a strong, affordable public plan, then only idiots won’t buy insurance and who cares if there’s a mandate or not? Nobody listens to me anyway, so if they do this, they STILL aren’t worth my time.
No matter what they do, then, they aren’t worth my time. Jesus, NOW I’m getting somewhere…
Xenos
Obama seems to be ropadoping the public option. One day someone, on background, declares it dead. Two days later, someone else, on background, declares it critical. Then they do it publicly, and then through leaks, and so on, constantly keeping the issue churning. It is like throwing chum in the water, a little at a time.
This must be driving the K streeters crazy — how are they supposed to be lobbying when everything is constantly being shifted around? When the White House does not show its cards there is not clear way to outmaneuver the administration. They are used to everything being opaque to the public, but not to them, too.
valdivia
@inkadu:
LOL. Spanish has some Arabic in it actually, like Almohada (pillow). Anything with an AL at the beginning or an Hin the middle comes from the period of the Ottoman conquest.
@Steeplejack:
yes english spelling is very very confusing. And all the OED reading is not cured me of my bad spelling either but hey it is so fun to know the history and evolution of words no?
Svensker
@SixStringFanatic:
His anti-Muslim bigotry really bugged me and then one day I said, I can get this on Fox, why read a “lefty” blog for this crap? So I stopped. Never been back.
inkadu
@valdivia: Almohada is a lot more comfortable than algebra or alchemy. It looks like the English got all the wrong things from the arabs.
Chris Andersen
For certain segments of the left, Rahm Emanuel is Emmanuel Goldstein. Getting their one minute hate session is almost a daily need.
I say this as someone who is definitely NOT a fan of Rahm Emanuel. I think his political instincts stink. But I don’t buy into the notion of some that he is the center of all evil in the Obama administration.
There’s a part of me that suspects that the Obama administration regularly leaks these kind of “we are going to screw you” hints to the left just in order to fire them up and keep them active. If Obama had come out strongly in favor of the public option (making a veto threat, etc.) as some on the left have demanded, you can bet that many would take that as a sign that they don’t need to work as hard to make sure the public option actually gets passed (“Hey, Obama is already on board! What can I do that will top that?”). But Obama would not have been able to pull that weight by himself.
This way, by constantly stoking fears of a sellout, Obama actually keeps the troops in line for the bigger fights to come.
General Winfield Stuck
Democratic congresscritters are delicate creatures, either by way of appropriate belief in separations of power, or inappropriate belief in their own personal power. Doesn’t really matter which when it comes to how a dem presnit deals with them, at least in public.
Just ask Jimmie Carter who tried to go over their heads to the public and majority dems in congress impolitely returned his political head on a platter. Clinton got a taste of it too, by initially trying to bully his dem controlled congress on HCR, and promptly handed congress over to the wingnuts.
Repubs do it different. They are top town authoritarian types who follow a supreme leader. This can get things done, but can also bring down the rain when dear leader comes up with bonehead ideas and they go along with it. Obama is smart enough to realize this fact of life and acts accordingly, IN PUBLIC, but behind the scenes I am certain it’s different. He didn’t make Rahn his COS for his sweet style and cupcake ways.
Chris Andersen
@Morbo: Sadly, I’ve begun to filter out stuff coming from both Americablog and Firedoglake. They both have become the most reflexively anti-Obama sites on the left, constantly interpreting any news leaking out of the administration in the worst possible light.
Not that some of those interpretations are without merit. But the constant drumbeat of “Obama is selling us out” begins to blur the line between legitimate complaint and paranoia.
I say sadly because both web sites have been invaluable in the past.
valdivia
@General Winfield Stuck: or Rahm’s knowledge of ballet.
inkadu: we also got the uncomfortable things like algebra but at least we got the almohada to go along with it.
Chris Andersen
@SenyorDave: With a name like “Mangled Baby Ducks” it’s GOT to be good!
Tsulagi
Hear ya. Tired of all the talk too; will simply wait to see what walks. Public Option still has life in it. Current trading on Intrade puts passage of HCR legislation including PO and signed by end of year at near a 19% probability. That sounds about right.
Chris Andersen
@Uloborus: They care about the Baucus bill because it was the last one passed. The news media is ADD. All that matters is what happened most recently. Thus, the be-all health care reform is the Baucus bill.
I suspect Baucus knew this when he dragged the process out so long. He made his bill the defining bill by sucking up all the media oxygen. Maybe there is a hint in this for future progressive committee leaders: if you want your version of a complex bill to be the important one, don’t be so quick to pass it.
matoko_chan
inkadu, I tole you guyz I was raised republican….i have even foxhunted.
My history of aves proff has a prairie falcon, he let us fly her to the lure once.
;)
matoko_chan
hehe, those darn backwards arabs……right now i’m readin’ a translation of a 1400 year old book by Ibn Arabi on spacetime theory and quantum entanglement.
;)
joe from Lowell
The most important thing to Protest People is their self-image as Protest People.
It’s more important than being right. It’s more important than any policy.
Xenos
@valdivia:
I think you meant Umayyad, not Ottoman…
Xenos
@matoko_chan:
I have admired Ibn Khaldun for years, but when I just checked Wikipedia for him I learned that he is credited with inventing the Laffer Curve!
I hope they credit him properly at the next Heritage Foundation Economics Symposium.
valdivia
@Xenos: yes, my bad. though I was under the impression the empire referred to generically as Ottoman. even circa 1470-80? again mainly ignorance in the details unfortunately.
jurassicpork
Health care reform. Yes, it’s really that simple.
Joel
Let’s look at it another way.
The administration can probably predict these outcomes better than any of us can. If Cole’s predictions are right — and I think they are — couldn’t the administration have leaked these “rumors” to generate more support for the public option in a crucial legislative period?
IndyLib
@Steeplejack:
Ignorant DFH it’s “buck nekkid”.
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@Chris Andersen: What the General said.
kay
I think what’s most disappointing to me is the vitriol directed at the blue dogs. I’m starting to see it as knee jerk.
I think ( I suspect) there are real issues regarding Medicare reimbursement rates for rural areas and how that reform might impact that, but no one has ( to my knowledge) explored what those might be.
Conrad keeps saying he can’t support a public option if it’s tied to Medicare reimbursement rates.
I feel like we’re not listening.
Since there’s been a tug o war between rural areas and urban areas on this very issue, for almost 20 years, I suspect there might be something substantive to his objection.
To start out presuming that the person you disagree with is 1. corrupt and 2. has no real reason to object, without exploring what the hell his problem is with rural areas and Medicare reimbursement seems unreasonable to me.
Again, I don’t know, because no one explored it. Instead it seems we all decided they were “conservadems” and acting in bad faith.
They have a say in this. Not listening to a word they say is counter-productive. I agree that the rural Democrats seem to have an outsized influence, in population terms, but that’s the nature of the Senate.
Do they have a real complaint? Does anyone know? I’d be interested if anyone can point me to where this has been discussed.
Ash Can
@Xenos: Reaganomics was based on an economic principle from the 6th century AD? Who could have predicted it?
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@General Winfield Stuck: Er. What the General said.
@Chris Andersen: And I find I agree with you as well!
No more posting for me till the caffeine wears off.
Leelee for Obama
@Ash Can: Learned it in grade school, he did.
The thing about Reagan that always amazed me was that he thought Roosevelt did all the right things, and his father worked in some capacity for the Administration, I think. How he came to be the miserly old coot he was just confuzzles the crap out of me. The uber-creeps know that their trickle-down theory is BS-but how did they sell Raygun on it? Anyone who watches what happens in the long-run had to see it for the scam it is. Hell, even H. W. called it what is is-voodoo.
Ash Can
@Leelee for Obama: I’ve wondered about that myself. The only thing I can think of that may have turned Reagan from progressivism/liberalism to IGMFY-ism might have been if he made a few bucks for himself in the movie industry, developed a circle of affluent friends, and decided that he was happier with affluence in and immediately surrounding his household. But my guess doesn’t seem to me to hold much water in light of his more radical RW-ism on issues such as communism, religiosity, the environment, education, etc. Or maybe the so-con stuff, or much of it, was just rhetoric he used to persuade the newly co-opted Moral Majority and other nutwing losers to elect him and keep him in office so that he and his wealthy pals could shake the country down for as much as they could.
Leelee for Obama
@Ash Can: It’s likely that the amount of money he was making had a real influence, but the pandering to the worst in this country was pure politics. That I’m sure of. Regardless of his BS about Medicare, he didn’t have to go full wingnut to win. Kind of a shame when you know how badly off his family was during the last financial mess that he’s probably responsible that we’re here again. Never liked him, so the legacy thing ain’t an issue, but for a President to be even partially responsible for the economic destruction of his Country is pretty sad.
OT-caught a Vietnam panel this AM on C-Span. Al Haig never ceases to surprise. Stated w/o equivocation that St. Ronnie was instrumental, but every U. S. President from Truman to HW Bush won the Cold War. It was at the Kennedy Library, so he wasn’t hanged.
aimai
I totally disagree with this point, Kay:
People are listening. A fix has been offered on this many times. But the Blue Dogs want to have it both ways–they consistently raise real issues (medicare reimbursement) then refuse to allow the fixes to be handled in a fiscally responsible way–like by raising taxes on the wealthy, or on insurance companies. I don’t think people started out attacking the Blue Dogs as always corrupt or whatever. ITs when their stated goals–covering their constituents or protecting local hospitals–could be met and they *still* wouldn’t back reform that people started to get suspicious.
I don’t think anyone can take someone like Conrad seriously as a righteous moral actor on this. A single complaint about medicare reimbursement rates, which several of the bills address head on, simply can’t be a good reason to keep sticking the shiv in to the entire reform process.
aimai
Brett
Another bloody Obama Waffle? Time to wheel out our complaint and e-mail lists.
More seriously, what is with Obama’s people and message consistency? They seem to have a really hard time sticking to a single message.
4jkb4ia
@Chris Andersen:
I suspect that this is deliberate strategy by Jane to keep the troops working precisely because Rahm is such a good villain for the people who hang out there. On the civil liberties front it is rare to have too much pressure on somebody.
4jkb4ia
John can see that Ceci Connolly has written a similar story based on Sunday talk shows, which has been posted to Memeorandum.
Ash Can
@Brett: I don’t think it’s so much inconsistency as broadness, which lets other people put words in their mouths. And the broadness is coming from the basic message of, “This is what we want, but we have to wait and see how the legislative process shakes out.”
There’s a big difference between this and “waffling.” People who insist Obama’s waffling haven’t been listening to him, they’ve been listening to what other people are saying he says. And those other people can’t be counted on to be correct all the time.
Midnight Marauder
@kay:
I think there’s a lot of validity to what you’re saying about “knee-jerk” criticism of Blue Dogs, especially on the issue of Medicare reimbursement of rural areas. That said, don’t act like Blue Dogs (specifically assholes like Conrad) haven’t brought a lot of that “knee-jerk” criticism upon themselves. If Blue Dogs as a voting bloc hadn’t been such a) Obstructionist Assholes to the Democratic agenda for years upon years, in addition to b) sacrificing even the slightest scintilla of principles they had during the Bush era, I don’t think you would see such vitriolic criticism being launched their way. But that is in fact the case, and I feel that they deserve every ounce of the criticism coming at them.
However, assuming that they’re in the right with their insistence on rural Medicare reimbursement rates, I have to ask what did they think would happen after they spent all of their energy and time standing in the way of meaningful HCR, only to get pissy when it looks like their interests are going to get pushed to the wayside as a result of their unscrupulous behavior? I mean, people like Mike Ross are entirely bought and paid for by the insurance industry.
So, yes, I think you raise some valid points, but conversely, I think this is a situation where you have to look at the Blue Dogs whining and say “What the fuck did you expect to happen?”
Wile E. Quixote
@Senyor Dave
Dan Riehl is Ann Coulter with a dick, no wait. Upon further consideration (Don’t I sound smart when I say that? Do you think I could get a job with the WaPO? I’ll bring my own Febreeze to help cleanse the air of the pissy old man smell that Will and Broder give off.) Dan Riehl is Ann Coulter, with a smaller dick.
kay
@Midnight Marauder:
They make me tear my hair out, and I don’t know if they have an actual problem regarding this proposed legislation’s effect on rural providers and what and how they get paid.
All I’m suggesting is that we should find out. If that’s the real sticking point behind all this huffing and puffing, shouldn’t we find that out, if only because it lends more clarity to the whole thing ?
For instance: what if it is the Democrats from more urban states who are protecting higher reimbursement rates that go their states and districts, and not budging on rates? I mean, that is a possibility.
I guess what I’m objecting to is this white hats/black hats approach. How can we get to each Senators motive without knowing what and who each Senator is protecting? Is it even possible the liberals, too, are protecting perks that go to a constituency? I think it is.
Steeplejack
@IndyLib:
So sorry. My bad.
Tony J
@valdivia:
Nah. Spain was part of the muslim world from the early 8th century, when the proto-Ummayads established the Emirate of Al-Andalus, until the Reconquista snuffed out Granada in the mid 15th century.
At that point the Ottoman Empire was just staking its claim to superpower status by taking Constantinople from the last Byzantines in 1462.
Dorothy Dunnett told me that.
inkadu
@Leelee for Obama: The uber-creeps know that their trickle-down theory is BS-but how did they sell Raygun on it?
Jelly beans.
Leelee for Obama
@inkadu: My kingdom for a Jelly Belly! Sadly, you may not be wrong. I’ve always wondered exactly how long Reagan was in the throes of Alzheimer’s. It usually starts getting bad after 80 yo, but it’s possible he had such good health care that it wasn’t obvious unless you knew him well. My whole family missed my Mom’s issues, cause they always thought she was a little dotty-but I knew five minutes after I walked into the house after three years away from her. It was like a giant blinking neon sign. But, we were practically joined at the hip for most of my life. Everybody else was kinda there for Pop. Not sayin’ they didn’t care, but they really didn’t know her. We used to finish each other’s sentences, even the ones we didn’t say outloud.
Shit-now I need a tissue.
Midnight Marauder
@kay:
Sure it is. But I think aimai touched on that particular issue (is there any there there with the Blue Dogs’ Medicare reimbursement fixation).:
And that’s what it boils down to, I think. Yes, there is a legitimate concern that Blue Dogs are advancing with Medicare reimbursement rates. However, numerous policy proposals and solutions have been presented to them, and a majority of Blue Dogs (not all this go-round, but a lot) continue to slap them away under the guise of “not doing enough” or some other obviously bullshit rhetoric.
I think you have to look at the split in the Blue Dog coalition that’s been developing (and only just now is beginning to produce some real fissures). There are those two California Blue Dogs who are breaking away from the pack and supporting HCR/a robust public option. Add that up with the whip counts that have been circulating the past few weeks indicating that a great deal of Blue Dogs are amenable to supporting HCR/a robust public option because it would actually help their constituents and save a ton of money.
But I think the Blue Dogs you’re focusing on, kay, are people like Mike Ross, who has now taken to calling for all HCR bills in the House to be scrapped and instead, opening up Medicare to everyone. Now, that sure does sound nifty, until you realize it’s just another tactic by Ross (who submitted amendments to the Baucus bill that were, literally, written by the insurance industry) to slow down HCR once again. And even assuming the idea was taken up by the House, on what planet would anyone think that someone like Mike Ross was legitimate in his comments about reforming a tragically broken system?
So, to wrap it up, there are a few Blue Dogs out there with legitimate concerns, but I think you might be falling victim to their siren song of actually wanting to HCR to happen. Because, for a lot of them, that is certainly not the case in any way, shape, or form.
John Cole
@Max: I see the usual suspects are there calling me an authoritarian and whatnot again, without failing to realize that their hissy fits have not swayed one single person in DC. Yeah, keep screaming at the folks on your side, nitwits. That will get you the public option! No one cared about DADTuntil you all freaked out after the HRC speech! “Just words!” You’re so effective with your “pressure.”
kay
@aimai:
All due respect, amai, that sounds a little conclusory.
I don’t think we know enough.
I will try to find out if their issue is as follows: they get special compensation for rural providers currently in return for lower regional rates. Do they retain that in the current proposals, or was that cut to allow the proposals to come on budget?
In other words, when Conrad says “Medicare rates” does he mean his rural constituency stand to get hurt with a public option as drafted?
scarshapedstar
John, when the insurance companies see the Administration move OUR way, they do not give up. When they see the Administration move THEIR way, for that matter, they do not give up. They are putting up every roadblock they can in congress and in the public opinion; they nag, they threaten, they bribe, and our only hope is tell Obama that we support him and trust him to do the right thing… but if he does not, then we will bust out the pitchforks and torches.
Maybe people are jumping to the angry mob part a little too quickly, but it’s a hell of a lot better than telling him that we will even give him the time of day if he passes the Insurance Company Jackpot Act of 2009.
Martin Gifford
But Obama is playing 11th dimensional chess.
Ow, that wore out my commentifying typing fingers.
Origuy
@inkadu:
Don’t forget al-kohl, from whence alcohol.
Russian etymology is interesting because it closely mirrors Russian foreign affairs. Church words come from Byzantine Greek; ploshad’, which means horse, comes from Mongol Turkic, as do a lot of military terms. German started entering Russian after the Mongols were thrown out, with other Western languages coming later. Navel terms come from Dutch, and of course most scientific words come straight from English.
Origuy
Naval, not navel. Arg!
MNPundit
I fail to see how what you described is a mistake.