Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

Fear and negativity are contagious, but so is courage!

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

“woke” is the new caravan.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Republicans do not trust women.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

We will not go back.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Give ’em enough thread

Give ’em enough thread

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Here’s something I sometimes think to myself….I often read that so-and-so is a reasonable person and that his or her ideas should therefore be granted some kind of prima facie credence. Will the whole “reasonable person” trope eventually go away? How is it different from ad hominemism in reverse?

Consider this an open thread.

Reader Interactions

213Comments

  2. 2.

    General Winfield Stuck

    When I was young, I often wondered why Bullwinkle pulled that lion out of the hat, when he clearly asked for a wabbit.

    It was all very unreasonable.

  3. 3.

    MikeJ

    It’s not actually in reverse. It is still an argument to the person. I don’t think it really matters if it’s positive or negative.

  4. 4.

    The Bearded Blogger

    “is a reasonable person” means “is part of the elite”. I live near enough the elites (while having debt related stomach aches) to know that thye spend a lot of time and energy in recognizing each other, so that they know who to privilege, who to talk and listen to, who “is one of us”.

    That’s what skull and bones is for. This also explains the importance of golf skills in getting ahead in the business world.

  5. 5.

    freelancer

    I often read that so-and-so is a reasonable person and that his or her ideas should therefore be granted some kind of prima facie credence. Will the whole “reasonable person” trope eventually go away?

    You probably didn’t think about it in this light, but does Andrew Sullivan count?

  6. 6.

    geg6

    You are quite right. This is a turn of phrase that Tweety uses all the time, most often with a most patently insane and mean spirited asshole like Tom Delay. It drives me crazy. I think Tweety says “good guy” or “great guy” like they’re fun at Georgetown cocktail parties so they couldn’t possibly be horrible, evil lizards who eat babies just to hear them scream.

  7. 7.

    The Bearded Blogger

    @MikeJ: Actually, ad hominem in reverse is the argument from authority, which is considered a different logical fallacy.

    However, the imperial romans had great respect for the argument from authority. Go fig.

  9. 9.

    Violet

    The only reasonable person is the person voting for Bitsy! Even James Wolcott is encouraging people to vote for her.

    Go Bitsy, go! Vote, vote, vote!

    Back on topic, I don’t think the “reasonable person” trope will ever go away. People want to feel they have people they can trust. Thus they create “reasonable people” as a shorthand so they don’t have to do the hard work of trying to decide every time whether someone is making sense or a complete nutjob.

  12. 12.

    calipygian

    @calipygian: I forgot – the price to “Get Motivated!” by one of “America’s foremost success experts” is 19 bucks. And for the price of one 19 dollar ticket, you can bring the whole office!

  13. 13.

    slag

    Will the whole “reasonable person” trope eventually go away? How is it different from ad hominemism in reverse?

    Well, it depends on how much you rely on a piece of information’s source in order to approve or reject it. Personally, I do think that the advent of the interwebs further erodes the tradition of using source as an information validating mechanism. For better and for worse.

  16. 16.

    Midnight Marauder

    @Violet:

    Back on topic, I don’t think the “reasonable person” trope will ever go away. People want to feel they have people they can trust. Thus they create “reasonable people” as a shorthand so they don’t have to do the hard work of trying to decide every time whether someone is making sense or a complete nutjob.

    Absolutely. It’s far easier to just resort to saying “Oh no, so-and-so is a reasonable person” than it is to critically listen to the things they’re saying and discern if, in fact, the widely-recognized “reasonable person” is actually a complete and total loon.

  19. 19.

    JGabriel

    DougJ:

    I often read that so-and-so is a reasonable person [whose] ideas should therefore be granted some kind of prima facie credence. Will the whole “reasonable person” trope eventually go away? How is it different from ad hominemism in reverse?

    It’s different from “ad hominem in reverse” because it’s an appeal to authority in which “reasonableness” is the basis for authority — i.e., it’s not different at all.

    And, considering that it was identified as a flaw in logic by Greek rhetoricians millenia ago, it’s safe to say it will never go away.

    .

  21. 21.

    Shell

    from the “Oath Keepers” a piece of work.

    Aaah! The same guy(?) was on Montel William’s show on Air America today. Next guest was a guy from the Southern Poverty Law Center. Talked in detail what’s on this group’s website. All kinds of militia-type paranoia. You know, ‘martial law about to be enforced,’ ‘patriots to be rounded up into camps,’ … i.e, pin-head stoopid yadda-yadda.

  24. 24.

    geg6

    Since this is an open thread, I’d just like to say that I had to take my John for minor surgery for carpal tunnel today. I try not to have any close encounters with health care providers beyond my yearly checkups, so I was not aware of these outpatient surgery churning operations. It was like an assembly line operation. It amazed me. I can’t say that there was no quality of care or good bedside manners. The operation went well, John’s in no pain, and all the doctors and nurses were extremely personable, friendly, and kind. But I found it weird and disconcerting. Since I have never had any sort of minor surgery, perhaps I simply missed this development. But is this how it is now? Not sure if I liked it or hated it.

  30. 30.

    Mark S.

    Even for a sports column this was pretty stupid: Joe Torre managed a perfect game last night and the Dodgers still lost. Therefore, Torre is a shitty manager.

  31. 31.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Did anyone see Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse on Keith just now? He was telling about a young couple whose little boy died of cystic fibrosis. In the process their insurance ran out or didn’t cover enough and the mother was sitting in ICU with her son while collection agencies were calling her about overdue hospital bills. The couple filed for bankruptcy — and had to borrow money just to cover the filing fees — and that whole experience, as described, sounds just cruelly humiliating and demeaning. They were required to undergo credit counseling (conducted by computer!) and had to answer questions like “What has this experience taught you about better money management?” The whole thing just made me ill and so sad. But if there’s a glimmer of good, it’s that Sen. Whitehouse seems to be one of the really good guys, smart and compassionate. Not unlike Rep. Allan Grayson in the other chamber.

  32. 32.

    Max

    @Dreggas: I just got home and am watching it now. Yes, I dvr Hardball, shame me if you will. I like him.

    Chris does a good job with these wacko’s. This guy is girding his loins and watching the shores for the Hessians.

    The southern poverty law guy needs a haircut.

  33. 33.

    demkat620

    @jeffreyw: That looks good. And I don’t even like fish.

    Do you ever make chicken piccata? My favorite. That and chicken scallopine.

  34. 34.

    Ash Can

    @calipygian: “George W. Bush – one of ‘America’s foremost success experts.'”

    LOLZ! Yeah, that’s a hot ticket, all right. And putting him in the lineup is supposed to boost ticket sales? Seriously? (Maybe they have him scheduled for midday, to give the attendees a chance to sneak out for a lunch break.)

  35. 35.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    George W. Bush – one of “America’s foremost success experts.”

    Get motivated!

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! ! !
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! ! !

    gasp.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! ! !

  36. 36.

    demkat620

    @SiubhanDuinne: I love him. I remember during his run people said he was blah and wouldn’t really stand out in congress.

    Well, I am proud to say that is one fighting dem who stands out. Whitehouse, Grayson, and Franken.

    Not bad, but we need more like them.

  37. 37.

    tofubo

    they were on the boards of this charity and that company, were a member of this church and that local business society, so the sentence for money laundering, fraud, and adultery should be minimal, if not, expunged outright

    said one resonable person to the other

  39. 39.

    jeffreyw

    Just out of curiosity I went to Wiki for their take on reasonable person and the sense comes through that it isn’t quite an appeal to authority, at least in the legal sense. More an appeal to prudence, the definition of which was agreed on by the jury. In the sense that Tweety et al use it it isn’t that at all, more an attempt to clothe the argument in a burqua, so as to prevent anyone from peering within and judging the form inside.

  41. 41.

    mclaren

    The ‘reasonable person’ delusion is part and parcel of the weird reputational inversion that has taken place in the media.

    Once upon a time, reputation depended on what you actually did. If you accomplished something, you had an impressive reputation. If you had not accomplished anything, people tended not to give much credence to what you said.

    But sometime around the 1970s, that equation inverted. By the 1970s, a person’s accomplishments started to get judged by hi/r reputation. So Henry Kissinger was judged as a “foreign policy guru” because people respected him, no matter how incompetent or criminal he was, no matter how completely all his efforts had failed, no matter how many dictators he cozied up to, no matter how many foreign leaders he ordered assassinated, no matter how badly he damaged America’s national interests and its reputation around the world. Kissinger was judged a “mastermind” and “impressive” because he had an impressive rep, and all his failures and incompetences were warped and twisted into great achievements through the lens of his weirdly inappropriate reputation.

    We now see the same thing on a daily basis throughout the media. This bizarre reputational inversion has become instititutionalized. William Kristol is lauded and fawned over as an “insightful” and “deeply thoughtful commentator” despite the fact that everything he has ever said is horribly wrong, catastrophically wrong, grotesquely wrong, shockingly wrong, appallingly wrong. Kristol continues to be treated with reverence and his words get treasured like droplets of solid gold because he has a big rep. It’s exactly the reverse of the way it should work.

    All the gigantic failures, from Karl Rove who wanted to create a generational dominance for the GOP and wound up destroying the GOP with tactics and making it less popular in the polls than ebola virus, to Dick Cheney, everyone one of whose claims is a provably false lie, get fawned over and treated like living gods by the media. Why? Because they had big reps. No other reason.

    Meanwhile, the people who have actually accomplished great world-changing things in the real world, like Norman Borlaug, get treated with contempt and derision. Why? Because they don’t have a big rep.

    We now live under the aegis of the Leaden Rule: the worst rise to the top, actual accomplishment guarantees being marginalized, lack of accomplishment and a track record of being 100% wrong guarantees you vast accolades and infinite applause and honors. Reputation alone is important. Actually doing something in the real world is for peons, and a sign that you’re a deeply unserious person who cannot be regarded as having any credibility or value.

    I suspect that societies undergo this kind of pathology shortly before they collapse. The last guy to cut down the last tree on Easter Island was probably lauded and cheered as a mastermind.

  42. 42.

    geg6

    One more piece of proof that I am the luckiest woman in the world to have the man I have. On our way to the surgery center, we were discussing going to his cabin in the mountains to do some clean up before winter sets in and to do some fall leaf viewing. And he turned to me and said “What size shoes do you wear…a 7? I about fell over I was so shocked. As I was speechless that he was right, he said that he had a pair of women’s work boots he’d bought for me and wanted to make sure they fit. When I recovered from my shock, I asked him how he knew that. He said he used to take the ex-wife shopping for shoes all the time and that my feet were abit smaller than hers. Imagine…I found the only man alive who not only doesn’t mind my shoe fetish, but unserstands women’s sizes, will buy me shoes on a whim, and actually enjoys shopping with me for shoes. He’s perfect.

  44. 44.

    Morbo

    Oh look, international soccer is acutally on American TV, and three whole goals have been scored in the first half alone. Go Dynamo Kiev, give ’em welly!

  45. 45.

    Laura W

    @Violet:

    The only reasonable person is the person voting for Bitsy! Even James Wolcott is encouraging people to vote for her.

    Go Bitsy, go! Vote, vote, vote!

    You, my Dear, are super-obsessive.
    I love that in a person.

  47. 47.

    geg6

    OMG, I turned on IFC to watch Part 3 of the Monty Python mini-series and Levi Johnston was eating pistachios on my teevee screen. Good to see that at least one of the Wasilla Hillbillies has the gumption to get a job.

  48. 48.

    tofubo

    The Bearded Blogger

    @mclaren: I really, really, really liked your comment. That is all.

    a: i need a shave, and 2: mclaren hit it the nail on the head in one fell swoop

  49. 49.

    DougJ

    DougJ, this isn’t a serious question, is it?

    Actually, it is. And I believe that it will go away to some extent at some point.

  50. 50.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @demkat620: That’s a nice trio there.

    Has Franken done ANY teevee appearances since he was sworn in? I can understand why as the freshmaniest freshman in the Senate he would want to keep a low, serious profile for a while, but I sure would love to see him on pretty much any of the (evening) MSNBC shows or even, as a refreshing breeze of clarity, any of the Sunday shows. Do you suppose he’s turning down invitations, or are the bookers too dumb to have his card in their Rolodexes (Rolodeces?)?

  51. 51.

    demkat620

    @jeffreyw: I will put it together for you. It’s basically lemon chicken but the scallopine, I need a good recipe for that myself.

  52. 52.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Okay, I give up. What did I say to put me in moderation? No so shul ism, no footwear, no too many links.

  53. 53.

    The Bearded Blogger

    @DougJ: learning systems need feedback. The part of the system that is the american public sphere that is damaged is the part that provides feedback. So, yes, it will go away but only after a major redesign of the system, if not the death of this system to be replaced by another.

  54. 54.

    silentbeep

    I take the “resonable person” label to mean, that this person is good enough to read and engage with either on a personal level or a blogospheric level. I think generally Will Wilkinson, Andrew Sullivan and Julian Sanchez are reasonable people, and occasionally Megan McArdle and Matt Welch have bouts of reasonableness so I read them too (ocassionally). This doesn’t mean I necessarily agree with them (most of the time I don’t) but I think my arguments and my ways of thinking are better because I will read things that I find to be disagreeable and unpleasant. I’m not interested in cocooning myself intellectually. I’m not gonna read something hysterical or shrill or full of ad hominem attacks, but I will read something that is calm and rational, and in the end if I think it’s still wrong, I at least have respect for that person.

    As crazymaking as that whole series of posts McArdle indulged in regarding healthcare were, reading her, made me more sure than ever about my pro-healthcare reform positions. I think she added to the debate because she may have made many people more sharper in their thinking in regards to healthcare reform; I know she did that for me.

    I’m warming to Conor Friedersdorf and E.D. Kain too for those reasons. To me they are two reasonable conservative types that I feel confortable disagreeing with on an intellectual level, not on an emotional, ad hominmen attack level.

  57. 57.

    geg6

    Laura W.: You are correct. But I can’t help it. He just astounds me sometimes. I mean, shoe shopping! I’ve never met such a man! That wasn’t gay, that is. Oh, gawd. They are singing “Sit On My Face If You Love Me.”. Python rocks!

  58. 58.

    Violet

    @Laura W:

    You, my Dear, are super-obsessive.
    I love that in a person.

    When it’s important! Helping needy dogs and cats is super-important. It’s so easy. You just have to vote for Bitsy.

    Now on things I should be doing, like the dishes, not so obsessive….

  59. 59.

    Skepticat

    @geg6: For several years after a mini-bout with colon cancer, my hobby was having colonoscopies. Your line about outpatient surgery churning is so spot on! The small hospital had a big, brand-new section for nothing but endoscopy. One morning I counted thirty-seven victims’ names on a big whiteboard, procedures scheduled for that day alone. The staff was fantastic, but the assembly-line feeling was inescapable. Same thing whenever I’ve had to have hand surgery. Oh, well, now that I don’t have health insurance I guess I don’t have to worry about suffering any such indignities.

    And John, the whole “reasonable person” trope may never go away, but it seems that most of the reasonable people have.

  62. 62.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Violet:

    That’s a great song. And very smart advice.

    LOL. For a second there, I thought you were talking about Monty Python’s “Sit on my face.” hehe. TMI!

  63. 63.

    Martin

    Oh, FTFY.

    No open thread should be without that. No other thread should be without it either.

    Can we just have it automatically added as a tag?

  65. 65.

    Martin

    Oh, and in spite of that, that was a bullshit call against Swisher. At the same time, that was a bullshit call at 2nd, so I guess it evens out.

    Bullshit calls for everyone! Why bother showing up, just let the umpires make the game up however they want!

  67. 67.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @geg6:

    So I’m expecting a thread sometime to pay for geg6’s new blackberry. The helicopters are not joking!

  70. 70.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @geg6:

    but Immanuel Kant was a real piss ant who was very rarely stable.

    Anyone else remember the MP album that had three “sides” if you hit the needle just right. That was cool.

  71. 71.

    asiangrrlMN

    @jeffreyw: Funny boy. Smart that you followed that up with actual pictures. The dinner looks de-lish. Looks like there were no leftovers.

    @geg6: Sounds like he’s perfect for you! Am I going to get thrown out of the girl’s club again when I admit that I hate shopping, and I only wear three pairs of shoes with any regularity? Sneakers year-round, boots in the winter/fall, sandals in the spring/summer.

    @DougJ: Ah, I get it. You’re an optimist to balance out John’s more, um, surly nature. False equivalence!

  76. 76.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I’m still in mod. It’s been almost 45 minutes now. Why why why? (Whine whine whine).

  77. 77.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    @The Bearded Blogger: Yup, this. You do have to admit that being born to a rich and influential family is probably the closest you can come to a guarantee of success, so it is in a sense correct to say that Bush is an expert on it, having followed that advice.

    I’m just wondering how they base a motivational seminar on it.

  79. 79.

    arguingwithsignposts

    And, FWIW, Andrea Mitchell should have been sent out of Washington while her husband was running the Fed.

  80. 80.

    ellaesther

    @asiangrrlMN: And I have achieved One Short Person In Bed, so I’m going to go on-topic by being open-thread here, rather than off-topic on the non-open-thread over there! Who knew that the two little letters, “OT,” could be so many-splendored?

    Anyhoo.

    Here’s my thing on my blog: A) I’m a wuss and B) I write sometimes about Israel/Palestine, which I also used to write about in newspapers, over which I used to occasionally get hate mail and threatening phone calls. (No, it’s true! And me so pleasant and all!)

    So far, the comments on my blog have all been very reasonable, but one person frequently comes over to, essentially, say “You don’t go far enough!” and just the other day, someone I know from elsewhere on the internets came over to say “You go too far!” I just decided that for my own mental health, I would not comment in my own comments! (See #A, above).

  82. 82.

    Martin

    I’m just wondering how they base a motivational seminar on it.

    “If your daddy was President, remember that a little coke and walking away from the military is okay, you can run a bunch of businesses into the ground but don’t push it – or else you won’t get to be President either.

    If your daddy wasn’t President, make sure you really suck up to the guy whose daddy was President. Tell him he’s cool. Blow him a few times. Cover up for his crimes. He’ll make you the head of FEMA or Vice President and even if you drown a city, or torture a bunch of people you’ll still make a fortune on the speaker circuit.”

  84. 84.

    Martin

    Holy fuck, what is going on in this game! We need a pinch umpire or something. Two Yankees off the base get tagged but only one out?

    Fuck the umpires! Fuck the Yankees!

  85. 85.

    asiangrrlMN

    @ellaesther: Oh, I get it. I decided that I would moderate the first comment from a new person, and if it was a total winger with no substance, I would just not post the comment. If, however, someone wants to argue on something substantive, I am more than willing to do so.

    As you’ve noticed, most of my posts are more personal in nature rather than political.

  86. 86.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I’m with you, I hate shopping, I have to admit however that I have recently become addicted to visiting all of my local thrift stores on a regular basis (called “Charity shops” in the UK), I went to the Sally Army last week and got a brand new pair of Prada sneakers (no wear on the soles at all) for $2.49. Was checking the going price on E-bay and it looks like I can re-sell them for about $50.00 plus shipping. Nice little profit. I went to another thrift store today and saw at least four pairs of “designer” shoes on the shelves for about $2.00 a pair. I think I may have found my new “job on the side”.

  87. 87.

    Martin

    That’s a little better. Would have been nice to have bases loaded, but a homerun is a homerun.

    Surprised the 3rd base umpire didn’t call him out on the way by…

  88. 88.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Laura W:

    She is doing really well this week! I think the linky from Vanity Fair has worked wonders, she is already over 2000 and it is only Wednesday. I keep voting every day and I wish I could vote more but I don’t want to break the rules.

  89. 89.

    Violet

    @Laura W:

    Anyone wanna talk about BITSY?

    Sylvia, in the Bitsy thread down below, said Bitsy got a special bone tonight. I guess because the contest is so exciting. She’s worried the star treatment will go to Bitsy’s head. LOL.

  91. 91.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Martin: There’s still plenty of time for that.

    @Litlebritdifrnt: This is true. You can always find little hidden treasures at thrift stores. However, I was recently looking for a cute pair of dancing shoes. I wanted platform heels that were eye-catching. No bows, no stilettos, and they had to be black. I have wide feet, so that doesn’t help. In three hours, I didn’t find a damn pair.

  92. 92.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    I think Dumbya Bush is a great motivational speaker. The more I heard Dumbya speak the more I was motivated to make sure that our kids never turn out like that vacuous doe-eyed soulless slack-jawed incompetent caricature of a human being.

    I would say that the best part was that it was free except for the fact that we are all paying for it and will be for decades to come.

    A $19.00 option would have been a lot better.

  93. 93.

    Violet

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    I think I might have broken the rules inadvertently. I voted this morning, then kept refreshing the page to see how she was doing. Firefox kept popping up a warning saying it would have to resubmit the information, or something. I would just click OK and it would refresh.

    After doing this most of the day, I finally noticed late this afternoon that when I did it, Bitsy seemed to gain a vote. So now I’m afraid I’ve accidentally given her illegal votes. :(

    In my defense, I’m home sick on the sofa with some kind of flu-ish thing, so my brain is rather muddled.

  94. 94.

    geg6

    Litlebritdifrnt: Ummmm…if you find any really cute size 7s, can you give me a heads up? I am partial to ballet flats, 3-5 inch heels, and pointy toes. Very Stacy London I am with the shoes.

  95. 95.

    arguingwithsignposts

    Speaking of clawbacks, Alan Greenspan should have his entire salary clawed back. And fuck Larry Summers, Phil Gramm and the rest of those fuckers. !$%@$#%@!!! This shit pisses me off.

  96. 96.

    Betsy

    @asiangrrlMN:
    Certainly not. Most of my lady friends are not big on shopping. I sometimes feel sheepish admitting that I actually like it, sometimes. Bad progressive feminist!

  100. 100.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Ahh but it is the thrill of the hunt! I have five local thrift stores that I visit every week. There are various things that I have been looking for, anything with sunflowers on it for my “green” guest room which has a sunflower theme for instance, a couple of weeks ago I found five rolls of sunflower wallpaper border at one of my favorite haunts for 25 cents a roll, they are now up in the room and look glorious. Ahhhhh the thrill of the hunt! Right now my list consists of new burgundy sheers for my bedroom window, new curtains for my “blue” guest room (which I have decided is going to have a critter theme so butterflies and dragonflies will be required), and blue sheers for my living room windows. I HATE buying anything new, ever, it really gets my goat, seeing as I know if I just give it time I will EVENTUALLY find it at one of the thrift stores. I am the HUNTER! LOL

  102. 102.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @geg6:

    Let me know what names you are looking for and its a deal! I picked up and put down a pair of Calvin Kleins today cause I was in a hurry, there were also lots of other names but the “Made in Italy” or “Made in Spain” stamp made me think that these were high end shoes. THE THRILL OF THE HUNT! Question are “Made in Brazil” shoes junk or good?

  103. 103.

    geg6

    Betsy: I have been a progressive feminist all my life. Nobody says you can’t like to shop if you’re a feminist. Ask Gloria Steinhem. She likes looking good. And she’s one of the founding mothers of the Feminist Movement. As a woman who came of age in the 70s, I took my cues from her. Gloria obviously liked shoes, too. :)

  105. 105.

    linda

    went to a gore vidal conversation at the 92y and saw richard belzer. man, he’s looking like a feeble old guy — and carrying his little doggie into the event with him.

  106. 106.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Laura W / 9:52 pm

    Thanks, now I understand why nobody has come riding in on a silver-white steed to awaken me from the glass coffin of moderation — but I still don’t know where the poison apple came from that put me there in the first place.

    In the meantime, I’ll take your suggestion: GO BITSY GO ! ! !

  107. 107.

    Comrade Kevin

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    but Immanuel Kant was a real piss ant who was very rarely stable.
    Anyone else remember the MP album that had three “sides” if you hit the needle just right. That was cool.

    Yup, I have a copy of it somewhere, but I’m not sure I remember which one. The Monty Python Matching Tie and Handkerchief, maybe?

    Speaking of them, if you’ve got XM or Sirius satellite radio, there’s a Python channel for the next week or so.

  108. 108.

    sylvia

    Violet – I’m sure it was someone elses vote for Little Bitsy that changed her number. I am going to that site a hundred times a day doing just what you did.

    Little Bitsy and all the other dogs did get special treats tonight. I thought she deserved a new bone for working so hard on getting more votes!
    She had a great afternoon running around the yard completely oblivious to her growing popularity!

    Sylvia and Little Bitsy

  109. 109.

    geg6

    litlebritdifrnt: Labels saying “made in in Italy” or “Spain” are probably high end, for sure. (Even better if they say “made in France!”. LOL!) Brazillian shoes may or may not be good shoes. Depends on the label, I guess. I typically buy Nine West, Steve Madden, or BCBG, if buying new. I can get them discounted at Ross Dress For Less, so they aren’t extravagant. But I also have some Calvin Kleins, some Tommy Hilfingers, and a couple Ann Kleins and Michael Kors. I have one pair of Carlos Santanas (yes, THAT one). I’d kill for Carrie Bradshaw’s shoe collection. And I can’t say what I’d do for just.one.pair of Laboutins, but suffice it to say it is quite a lot.

  111. 111.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Betsy: You are the third person to mention that site. Yeah, I probably will buy ’em there, but I would rather be able to try them on first. Sigh.

    @Litlebritdifrnt: No. I hate crowds and noise. I hate shopping malls. I hate trying on pair after pair only to find that nothing fits or looks cute. I am extremely picky about shoes and clothing (surprise surprise), so it’s never fun.

    I should have been born a guy.

  112. 112.

    Violet

    @sylvia:
    Sylvia, I hope so! I’ve refreshed the page before, but haven’t gotten the warning box. But the warning box said something about resending the info I’d sent, so that’s when I finally took a look at it. I’m a little concerned I gave her 20 or 30 extra votes. I hope it was someone else.

    I tested it by doing a search for Little Bitsy on the site and then refreshing that page. (It’s the same page, but not the one I had voted on, if that makes sense.) Once I did that, it didn’t add any more votes for awhile. So that’s when I decided I might have been inadvertently adding votes.

    I wonder if Bitsy’s competitors’ supporters have figured that out and that’s how they’re getting so many votes?

  113. 113.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @geg6:

    Shoot, I know nothing about shoes, I saw half a dozen pairs of Nine West today and I thought they were like Target or Wal Mart junk (hangs head in shame), I have written down all the names you have given me and will look out for you. Size 7 right? Wide or just normal?

  114. 114.

    geg6

    asiangrrlMN: I’m turning you in to What Not To Wear. Stacy and Clinton will show you the error of your ways! You WILL learn to have fun shopping. I can have a blast shopping and never buy a thing!

  115. 115.

    Martin

    No. I hate crowds and noise. I hate shopping malls. I hate trying on pair after pair only to find that nothing fits or looks cute. I am extremely picky about shoes and clothing (surprise surprise), so it’s never fun.

    That’s why they invented Nieman Marcus. Go off-hours, let the staff find you something that fits and is cute (they’re usually remarkably good at zeroing in on what you like). Leave relaxed and head for the bar so you can forget the markup you just paid.

    If you don’t buy a lot of stuff, but need to look at/try a lot of stuff, it’s usually worth it.

  116. 116.

    sylvia

    Violet – at the end of the week they will go through all of the votes and make sure they are legit. The winner last week had 500 votes taken off! So don’t worry.

    Little Bitsy still needs more votes. Rufus is hard to beat! Looks like we are still about 160 or so behind him!
    Sylvia

  117. 117.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I too hate crowds and noise, and I hate the idiots who hang around in Malls, basically they are just posing, buying shit from overpriced shops so they can do a couple of turns around the mall with their shopping bag showing that they bought something really pricey! I love people like them, cause people like them are too lazy to take stuff back to the store, so when they decide they don’t like it they give it to the thrift stores, complete with tags and original price labels. I wear a sleeveless top, which is nice (don’t get me wrong) but the original price tag on it was $69.99 for a teensy little sleeveless top! (I paid $2.00) I also love those HSN addicts, who buy everything they sell and eventually don’t use them and donate them to the thrift stores. There is a lady near one of the thrift stores near me that is my favorite person in the world, I just can’t wait to pick up her latest buys from the HSN! (My Euro steam cleaner for $25.00 has been the best buy I ever made – she paid $399.95 for it). The thrill of the hunt!

  119. 119.

    asiangrrlMN

    @geg6: You do, and I will come after you. I hate reality shows more than I hate shopping or shoes.

    @Martin: They don’t have one in my hood. They do have one downtown. Hm.

    LitleBritDifrent, I am set for clothes–my mom gets them from Taiwan. It’s only shoes. Damn shoes. Maybe I’ll wait for Obama’s sockulist medicine so I can get my forced sex change.

  120. 120.

    ellaesther

    @asiangrrlMN: No, if you had been born a guy, you would have been like my husband who hates it and complains about it to me.

    On the other hand, then you would at least be filling society’s expectations of you. So I suppose there’s that.

  121. 121.

    geg6

    litlebritdifrnt: Size 7, just normal width. Nine West aren’t high, high end. Just well made, teeny bit expensive (usually under $100), fashionable but not trendy shoes. Excellent for career wear. Same goes for BCBG. Steve Maddens are same price range but much more trendy. The other names tend more toward the over $100 and up range. I usually get those on Ebay or a consignment shop.

  122. 122.

    ellaesther

    @geg6: I do not understand this. I like shopping for about 45 minutes, if it’s going well. Then I feel a very palpable need to be IN MY HOUSE.

    I can last longer when its resale-shop shopping, or if the shopping is for someone else, but only about another 1/2 hour.

  126. 126.

    Betsy

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I should have been born a guy.

    Nope. We should just all live in a society that doesn’t declare that an entire sex should all like the same activity.

  127. 127.

    geg6

    ellaesther: See, for me, it’s a learning experience. I like to see what’s out there, what’s happening. It gives me ideas. And I like a bargain. So persistent shopping allows me to spot a great deal or keep an eye on a price I’m waiting to drop. I also go and try on things so I can see how a designer tailors their clothes or how their shoes fit. So I can then go onto Ebay or online consignment shops and know if their stuff will fit me the way I like. That’s how I got my extensive career wardrobe of BCBG, which are the best-fitting slacks I’ve ever found for my particular body eccentricities.

  130. 130.

    ellaesther

    @geg6: I have a second cousin like you! It’s very impressive to watch in action, and I’ll tell you what, if I ever really need to find something, I will send her after it, because she’ll find it WAAAY faster than me!

  131. 131.

    HRA

    Anytime I hear or watch someone address another person with “you are a reasonable person”, I get the feeling they are using it for entrapment or patronizing. IOW it’s not a favorite of mine.

    Shopping? I have hated it for a long time. I get what I need and leave as soon as I am able to. No mall walks or browsing for me.

  132. 132.

    Fulcanelli

    Hey, who can help me out with a recipe for a good old-fashioned, cut it with a fork Yankee Pot Roast with potaters n’ stuff? C’mon, with all these libtard gourmands that hang out here somebody has to be able to hook me up with their grandma’s recipe. Or something.

    It’s my youngest daughter’s 16th birthday Sunday and I wanted to cook up something special.

    I’ll report back and you’ll get all the glory. Promise.

  133. 133.

    Martin

    And just to round out my comment, we buy almost everything off craigslist or from freecycle. But good shoes will last years, and good shoes are worth every penny. I’m amazed at how many people buy shitty shoes to save a buck or because they are cute but fit like shit.

    Some things are worth spending money on, and shoes are one of them.

    FTFY!

  134. 134.

    Chris

    Wooo this is great…reminds me of hanging out with my female friends….sadly without the upside of actually being in the same room..Chat on ladies! (hopin you guys are ladies..if I have offended some guy shoe fan my apologies)

  135. 135.

    Martin

    Nope. We should just all live in a society that doesn’t declare that an entire sex should all like the same activity.

    Besides, she could have just been born a gay guy, and be right back in the same bind.

  137. 137.

    Violet

    @Martin:
    But if it’s a style that you know isn’t going to be popular for long, or you’ll only wear once or twice, then cheap shoos are the way to go. I’ve got some hot pink, high-heeled, strappy sandals that I got to match an outfit. I think I’ve worn then twice. They cost me $20 at a discount store. I’m glad I didn’t waste a lot of money on them.

  138. 138.

    Fulcanelli

    @Martin:

    Some things are worth spending money on, and shoes are one of them.

    I agree. And add to that list paint brushes used for interior trim and color laser toner cartridges. Also.

  140. 140.

    Chris

    A very simple recipe….A chuck roast (chuck has some nice marbling..and is fairly cheap) one can of cream of mushroom soup…and a package of dry onion soup mix. Throw it all in the crock pot for about 6-8 hrs. Its marvelous If you wanna be a lil more sophisticated you can brown it up some in a cast iron pan before said dunking in the crock pot. It’ll look a little better though..but I am not sure it improves the taste dramatically. Throw in some potatoes and carrots for the last couple of hours. Rake in the praise.

  141. 141.

    Alan

    @arguingwithsignposts: I just watched the show. Back in ’98 I would have been right there supporting Phil Gramm, Greenspan, etc., thinking that women, Brooksley Born, was just some stupid lefty whose desire to regulate was knee-jerk, like every other lefty who wanted to economically impede our great nation–throw sand in the gears, as it were. I was a well trained RW nut.

    What a takedown that show was. Everyone should see it. The show had almost everything in it–even the President’s Working Group which was created in response to the ’87 market crash. The Group, I suspect, is responsible for keeping this economic house of cards erect while kicking the can further down the road. RW idiots should feel stupid shouting about the CRA and Barney Frank.

    The show highlights one of the main reasons I’m no longer conservative and will never vote for that ideology again–conservatives and libertarians are idiots if they can’t learn from what’s taken place.

    Obama had better wake up to who he has working for him. It’s like watching the end of a horror movie where Damian looks back at the camera and smiles as a teaser for its sequel.

    Lord help us.

  143. 143.

    Montysano

    Well, Frontline’s “The Warning” had the anticipated effect: a strong desire to drink heavily and punch holes in the walls.

    Brooksley Born, the Clinton era head of the CFTC, who attempted to raise a red flag and was told to fuck off by Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, et al, says we’re primed for another crash. Wall Street is, of course, spending millions to lobby against any regulation.

    Pitchforks…. torches….. guillotines….. Oh wait, “Dancing With The Stars” is coming on. Maybe later….

  144. 144.

    geg6

    Fulcanelli: My mother always said the trick to great roast beef is to rub it with kosher salt, pepper, garlic, and rosemary and let it sit at room temp for an hour or so before putting it in a very hot oven (450-500) for about 5 min and turn to sear for another five. Then turn the oven down to 350. Cut up your veggies (I like potatoes, carrots, and mushrooms) and throw those in with a bit of beef stock and red wine. Depending on the size of the roast, roast for half the time covered and the second half uncovered. Add more liquid as needed.

  145. 145.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Martin, you have spent too much time in academia. People like you, 150 years ago, are the reason that Justin Morrill mandated that universities teach engineering, agriculture, and military tactics.

  150. 150.

    geg6

    Oh, and I forgot that the dreamy roast beef my mom taught me to make should be what is called around here an English roast. But I know it has other names in other regions.

  151. 151.

    SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta

    @geg6: I’m copying your recipe too. I do something similar – kosher salt, pepper etc, then sear the roast on the stove in a bit of olive oil. But having it sit at room temp is something I haven’t heard, also haven’t use rosemary before. My mother’s lovely Christmas roasts are, I believe, Boston butt roast. Sounds rather obscene.

  152. 152.

    asiangrrlMN

    @SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta: Because she is a no-nonsense woman who is getting things done, which is a bitch to many people. As Tina Fey said, “Bitches get things done.” She doesn’t play coy or try to cajole or flatter the men. She’s not attractive or young. Goes with the territory.

  154. 154.

    Fulcanelli

    @SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta: Nate Silver left one thing out on his list: How much it will piss off the tea baggers and corporatist big money assholes on the Right watching the independents support the PO and run away from them in droves AGAIN because they’re so fucking bat-shit crazy and ideologically retarded.

    Good Times.

    Please FSM, I’m begging over here…

  156. 156.

    Brick Oven Bill

    DougJ confuses me too, as he is supposedly a teacher of math at some college, and yet does not seem to give due deference to Mathematics (Arithmetic and Geometry). DougJ should consider Plato’s four understandings:

    First, there is certainty.

    Second, mathematics gives us the power of perception.

    Third, though the physical applications of mathematics may change, the thoughts themselves are eternal and are in another realm of existence.

    And fourth, mathematics is thought and, therefore, it is eternal and can be known by all.

    Mathematics is supposed to open the mind, not close it.

  157. 157.

    Martin

    Hey, who can help me out with a recipe for a good old-fashioned, cut it with a fork Yankee Pot Roast with potaters n’ stuff?

    We don’t have a recipe – we just wing it, but it can set you on the right path.

    Dutch oven, or crock pot if you lack one. You want a long, slow cooking so the meat breaks up. This is for a 4-5 lb roast.

    Season the roast with coarse salt and pepper. Brown it on the stove with med-high heat in some olive oil (do this in the dutch oven, or a separate pan if you use a crock pot). Get a nice crust all around. Lift up the roast and shove 3 or so peeled cloves of garlic underneath. Also put a medium sliced onion underneath and 1/2 cup of chopped celery. Add about 1 cup of V-8 juice and a little water or red wine. Toss in about a teaspoon of basil, oregano, and a bay leaf. Bring this to a simmer. Once it’s at a simmer, shove it in a 225 oven or let the crock pot fly. You want to keep it right at a simmer for about 4 hours.

    An hour before it’s done, toss in a few carrots cut to 2″ lengths and a half dozen quartered red potatoes. If you like shrooms, toss some in with about 20-30 minutes to go – they cook quickly.

    The key to fall apart roasts is long, low, moist heat. Lots of time sitting in liquid at a simmer will break things up. The acid from the V8 helps that along and the tomato and seasoning in the V8 really adds some depth to the meat. That garlic should be nice and sweet after all that time.

  159. 159.

    Ash Can

    @Litlebritdifrnt: LOL! I love tag sales like that. My favorite kind of estate/moving sale is one where the woman of the house was a shopaholic, had good taste, spent money on herself like there was no tomorrow, and was my size — and the people running the estate sale don’t care what they’re selling or for how much, they just want to clear the damned house out. Ungaro jackets for $5 a pop? Works for me. Hand-loomed skirt-and-jacket ensembles for $10? I’m there. Honest-to-goodness Austrian dirndl skirts for $2 apiece? Back up the truck.

    I also get a bang out of people who loved to travel and stole shit everywhere they went. I have a great collection of German and Belgian beer glasses courtesy of them.

  163. 163.

    Maus

    You probably didn’t think about it in this light, but does Andrew Sullivan count?

    Yes, people gargle his bullshit on a daily basis, because he’s a “reasonable” conservative, whatever that means. I really don’t see how he’s better than any other conservative shill.

  164. 164.

    geg6

    SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta: She claimed the room temp thing was to make it more like good aged beef. Personally, I’m sure it’s more something like the fat softens up and distributes itself in the meat better than putting cold meat in a hot pan or oven. It works with rib roast when I make prime rib and also with steaks.

  165. 165.

    SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta

    @Fulcanelli: There’s a comment in the thread that sort of addresses that issue.
    The political calculus has changed. Centrist Dems were worried that a public option would anger conservatives and drive them out to the polls. They now realize that almost no matter what they chose to do conservatives will be in angry up rise against them. Thus the strategy has shifted to how do they energize progressives without pissing off moderates.

    Notice the major shift, they realize conservatives are pissed off no matter what, so this is becoming a base election scenario. Having some sort of public option is a huge rallying cry. Dems can claim they stood up to “big business” and “the right wing” and “prevailed”. (the degree to which they will have actaully done so will be open to interpretation but it will be at least plausibly debatable)

    Popcorn?

  167. 167.

    Martin

    People like you, 150 years ago, are the reason that Justin Morrill mandated that universities teach engineering, agriculture, and military tactics.

    Yes, BOB, better we remain a nation of dirt farmers ruled by our private-school oligarchs than try to educate the public. Why, without all of those land grant colleges, we could have spent 1942 standing around trying to figure out how to build ships out of the switchgrass and tumbleweeds that had taken over the nations breadbasket and overwhelmed the Germans and Japanese with our goat herding skills.

    Brilliant!

  168. 168.

    Anne Laurie

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    …but I still don’t know where the poison apple came from that put me there in the first place.

    If it’s the comment I found, my best guess would be the “R o l o” in R o l o d e x triggering FYWP’s watch-knockoff spam trigger. If it’s another comment I missed, well — I tried!

  169. 169.

    Mark S.

    @SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta:

    They now realize that almost no matter what they chose to do conservatives will be in angry up rise against them.

    Well, I hope they have finally figured that out. I could have let them in on that secret about nine months ago.

  170. 170.

    Mike in NC

    Maybe B.O.B. and Makewi can hook up for pizza and cooking sherry sometime, providing it’s not past her bedtime and her armpit hair passes muster. Just promise not to reproduce, OK?

  172. 172.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Those ships were built by engineers Martin. Those engineers were fed by farmers and their product was Captained by Captains.

    By the way, I happen to know a few ‘dirt farmers’. Be respectful please. These guys are nice but can become cranky if provoked. They are also probably smarter than you.

    But you are definately smarter than Sean Hannity. So don’t feel bad.

  175. 175.

    Martin

    Because he likes shopping for footwear?

    Yes. Even though I can tie my own nets, can start fires with almost anything I stumble upon, know how to purify water using a plastic bag, can sew, cook, fish, butcher meat, and grow my own produce, I know how to safely and accurately fell trees, pour concrete slabs, do structural framing, electrical, plumbing, I can paint like a pro, make my own furniture, weld, teach my son electronics, I write software, repair my own car and have even helped rebuild an engine. I can do a bunch of other crap, including my job (not listed above, nor are the things related to my degrees), and while you could drop me off in the middle of nowhere armed with nothing but the container under the back seat of my car and I’d quite handily live off the land, BOB thinks I’m an effete liberal snob because I value good shoes.

    Yeah, I’m the problem with America, BOB.

  176. 176.

    SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta

    @asiangrrlMN: Think you nailed it. I love her unapologetic lefty-ism. But she’s goofy as shit.

    Isn’t there a line in Dolores Clairborne like “Sometimes the only thing left is being a bitch?”

  177. 177.

    Maus

    They now realize that almost no matter what they chose to do conservatives will be in angry up rise against them.

    somehow i doubt this

  178. 178.

    Fulcanelli

    @SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta: Democrats breathing angers conservatives, so why cater to them at all? Both Dick Armey and Grover Nordquist have said publicly in the past how they believe “bipartisanship is another name for date rape”, only this time its the R’s with their pants down and the Dems just might pull a Lorena Bobbit, FSM willing.

    I said this in an earlier thread today, but all I know is that if Congress and Obama stick us with a bill that mandates we buy health insurance from the same companies that have been porking us for years I’m gonna party like it’s 1789.

    My Senator Whitehouse looked justifiably pissed on Olbermann’s show tonight. Jeff Sessions’ comments on that panel were pathetic. And this idiot wanted a SCOTUS seat? Ye Gods.

  179. 179.

    Paul

    I often read that so-and-so is a reasonable person and that his or her ideas should therefore be granted some kind of prima facie credence.

    I think the idea is that a reasonable person’s arguments should be accepted as made in good faith unless or until it can be shown otherwise, not that they should be accepted as true.

  181. 181.

    Martin

    Those ships were built by engineers Martin. Those engineers were fed by farmers and their product was Captained by Captains.

    And who trained those engineers, taught those farmers how to prevent the midwest from looking like 1936 Oklahoma (a condition created by uneducated farmers), and taught those captains how to captain without a war to do it in?

  182. 182.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Maus: Haven’t seen it, but it’s true. Any woman who is unapologetically aggressive without tossing in a wink and a bit of cleavage is a bitch. Look at Hillary. Whatever.

    @Martin: If you’re the problem with America, then I don’t want any solution. And, I totally agree on good shoes if one is going to wear them for many years.

  183. 183.

    Anne Laurie

    a href=”#comment-1409024″>asiangrrlMN:

    I hate trying on pair after pair only to find that nothing fits or looks cute. I am extremely picky about shoes and clothing (surprise surprise), so it’s never fun.

    I’m doing almost all my clothes/shoe shopping online or from catalogs these days. Since I’ve also got wide feet, Zappos just has too high a signal-to-noise ratio for me. I particularly like Maryland Square and Wissota Trader, but my parameters (low heels, fat instep) may be too different from yours for those sites to be useful.

    Mostly, though, I need to agree: Shoes, like chocolate, are among life’s necessities that it’s worth spending money on!

  184. 184.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    BOB’s timeouts seem need to get shorter longer and shorter longer. Please?

    Fix’t.

    BoB was the kid whose mom wouldn’t let him play in the sandbox because the cats kept burying him. Cats know what to do with shit.

  186. 186.

    SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta

    @Fulcanelli:

    I said this in an earlier thread today, but all I know is that if Congress and Obama stick us with a bill that mandates we buy health insurance from the same companies that have been porking us for years I’m gonna party like it’s 1789.

    I will be truly shocked if something like that comes out of Congress. There is WAY more public awareness, support, and activism around the public option than I ever thought there would be. It would be fucking political suicide and I’m counting on the fact that Obama, and at least some of the Congress have to be aware of that fact. And the fact that the CBO is scoring the bills with a PO at a similar cost to those without is a huge factor.

    If mandated insurance without a PO is what we get, I’ll join the revolution and start by dumping some tea-baggers in the harbor.

  188. 188.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Anne Laurie: I don’t wear heels normally. I was just hankering for a pair of cute dancing shoes. Usually, I wear flats. I’ll have to check out your suggestions. Oh, and not only do I have wide feet, I have thick calves. Great. Just great.

    Ooooh, I like these sites, Anne Laurie. Thanks!

    Fulcanelli and SIA, I’m right there with you. I’ll be punching the tea-baggers in the neck if a mandate without a public option happens.

  189. 189.

    ajr22

    “The culture war is up for grabs. The good news is that religious conservatives continue to breed like rabbits, while secular saboteurs have shut down: they’re too busy walking their dogs, going to bathhouses and aborting their kids. Time, it seems, is on the side of the angels.”- Bill Donohue.

    The Wa-Po might as well of posted an op-ed written by the taliban. Next week mullah omar will explain how Americas secular saboteurs should force to women stay in the home in burkahs (woops, Bob McDonnel has that covered). Oy vey this guy is a schmuck.

  190. 190.

    Fulcanelli

    @Anne Laurie: Ladies, my beloved better half, all 5′, 120 lbs. of her wears a size 5. That means Nordstrom’s or Cinderella’s of Boston for footwear shopping.

    I know what kind of money can be spent on this stuff. But… They are good quality and she’ll wear them for years and years.

    However that still doesn’t stop her from adding to the Imelda Marcos memorial s h o e collection in our bedroom closet on a regular basis.

  191. 191.

    jeffreyw

    Mmmm…roast beef, follow any of those recipes and you won’t go wrong. I do note that no one has mentioned making gravy from the drippins. More easily done in a good cast iron pot, but you can scrape the crock pot to get the goodies out, finish in a pan on the stovetop. Spoon out as much fat as you need to to feel good about it, bring to a boil and add a corn starch/water slurry, use enough water to get the volume you need. A drizzle of Kitchen Bouquet works well here at the finish. Strain through a sieve or not as you prefer, I like chunks of the onion in mine. Mmm…gravy.

  194. 194.

    Martin

    By the way, I happen to know a few ‘dirt farmers’. Be respectful please. These guys are nice but can become cranky if provoked. They are also probably smarter than you.

    And don’t fuck with me BOB.

    My grandfather was a farmer and when the war came he was ineligible due to his eyesight, so he went and designed planes instead. Spent the war outwitting the Germans engineers.

    When he wanted give his new wife a nice place to live, he built her one – by hand. Dug the basement with a shovel and just went up. My uncle still lives in that house just as my grandfather left it – not an inch of space is wasted and every door is still true. He taught me everything.

    And like my grandfather, I know full well that you find brains wherever you go, but submarines aren’t built by smart people, they’re built by educated people. It took smart people 75 years to figure out how to build a marginally decent submarine, and we needed them in 7 months and better than marginal, and only educated people have the knowledge to do that. Sure, the smart farmers eventually would have figured it out, but it would have been for the Germans or the Japanese by then.

  195. 195.

    General Winfield Stuck

    This whole Obama war on Fox News is getting funnier by the day. As is the hypocrisy of the poor little Fox apologists. It wasn’t that long ago that Fox led by Bill O’reilly had their own little war going on against NBC news.

    And now Allahpundit has declared Jake Tapper as the great white hope to make it all good again.

    Both Politico and Mediaite note that the expected righteous indignation at being lectured by politicians on what they should consider news is strangely absent from most of the press corps — with the important exception of Jake Tapper.

    The irony of this story, though, is that the press was already happy to quarantine “wingnut” stories emanating from Fox, be it Van Jones or ACORN or the White House trying to politicize the NEA. Compare the first boldfaced quote in the blockquote above to this one from Chuck Todd more than a month ago. In fact, here’s what I wrote on September 4, while the Jones thing was roiling, on how Tapper — again — seemed to be the only non-Foxy willing to break the wider media embargo on covering what Fox News was covering.

    Jake Tapper,, where have I heard that name before? Flying penis award maybe.

  196. 196.

    MikeJ

    Or maybe no one cared, but I did dammit.

    I cared the first thirty times dougj used it for an open thread. It’s his standard line.

  198. 198.

    Fulcanelli

    @Martin:

    I know full well that you find brains wherever you go, but submarines aren’t built by smart people, they’re built by educated people

    Amen. My uncle was a designer working on the Seawolf and other subs with General Dynamics in Groton, CT for over 25 years. I never understood how he did it. He was as dumb as toaster with a personality like a fucking stop sign. Go figure.

  199. 199.

    IndyLib

    @geg6:

    I’d kill for Carrie Bradshaw’s shoe collection

    Truer words were never spoken.

    I started my shoe fetish when I worked weekends at a shoe store in high school. When I move I have almost as many boxes of shoes as I do books.
    My husband will go shoe shopping with me, he’s never bought me any shoes on his own, but he’s gotten pretty good at cooking gadgets, so there’s that.

  200. 200.

    Brick Oven Bill

    You can get more food for a buck now than you could three years ago. But gold is up 50%+. This means that there is inflation and deflation at the same time. The Burger King double cheeseburger has recently matched the Jack in the Box ‘Big Cheeseburger’ in value.

    But the Jack in the Box ‘Big Cheeseburger’ is still listed at $1.69 at the drive through. I like mine with no mayonnaise. The dollar is toast and this will herald the end of Artificial Law. The Jack in the Box personnel are creepily friendly. Perhaps they have a coach.

    Artificial Law always ends. This is why one should not go into the profession of law at this time. Windmills can also serve as a gallows. Rotate baby. I would also stay away from academia. Stick with dirt, Talent, and Virtue.

    + several

  201. 201.

    Mark S.

    @ajr22:

    Man, the comments to that Donahue screed are great! Every freaking comment is against him, or at least the fifty or so I read. My favorite:

    don’t you have an alter boy to be molesting, mr. donahue?

    As someone raised Catholic, I used to hate Donahue, but now I want him to have a weekly column!

  202. 202.

    Martin

    This means that there is inflation and deflation at the same time.

    There’s always been inflation and deflation at the same time, BOB. Why this has escaped you your entire life is a mystery to us all.

    If you need more proof go buy a TV or a computer. You’ll get more for less money. There have always been segments of the economy that work that well. Hell, that’s true of tractors. It’s true of a shitload of things in the economy.

  203. 203.

    burnspbesq

    @Martin:

    Word. I went to Game 3, and it was one for the ages. Alas, the Halos were as spineless as Harry Reid tonight. The prospect of a Yankees-Phillies World Series is enough to make me projectile vomit.

  204. 204.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Only a shithead buys a jar of Ragu spaghetti sauce for $2.50 at the store. You can buy one of those huge cans of crushed tomatoes at the bulk store for $2.50. Then you just add olive oil, spices, perhaps tomato chunks, and heat it up. Throw in an onion and maybe some garlic.

    Then you put it in old jars for not even a dollar a jar. The sauce tastes better, and the combination of olive oil and tomatoes is very healthy for your heart, according to authorities.

    Oil would be $20/bbl if Natural Law ruled, which it will. Natural Law cannot stop itself.

    + several + one

  207. 207.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    @Mark S.:

    Good catch! I love this comment:

    A BLURB FROM THE JACKET OF HIS NEW BOOK:
     
    ” “Wake up, America! The secular minority has cut the brake cables on America’s In-God-We-Trust-Mobile™! Not even all 43 of our Christian presidents can save us now.” – Stephen Colbert, host of “The Colbert Report” ”
    ——————————–
    THE MAN IS A SIMPLE IDIOT.

    Donohue quotes Colbert as fact! Oh. My. FSM!

    bwahahahahahaha!

  208. 208.

    Gravenstone

    I see several variations on the pot roast theme above. As someone else mentioned, you really can’t go wrong with any of them. My personal take:

    Allow the roast (a well marbeled chuck or English works well) to warm to near room temperature. Coat both sides liberally with olive oil, add kosher salt. Brown both sides in an oven safe skillet. I use a cast iron dutch oven (I lucked into a beautiful 8 qt enameled model for half price). Once well browned, remove from the heat and toss in several medium-large onions, quartered; and several cloves of garlic and several grinds of pepper (to taste). Cover and place in a 250 degree oven for 3 hours. With ca. 1 hour remaining, add your potatoes (I prefer small reds or Yukon Golds) and quartered carrots. When done, remove the meat to a covered serving plate to rest, bowl up your veggies then deglaze the pan on the stovetop with a bit of wine, then reduce the mxiture to get your sauce.

    So really, not that far removed from Martin’s recipe, aside from the omission of the tomato juice/V8.

  209. 209.

    bjacques

    I’m with BoB on the spaghetti sauce and I ‘m already hoarding olive oil, which is a heckuva lot more than $70 a barrel.

    What is the Natural Law? Not to walk on all fours. That is the Natural Law. Are we not men? (Or women in Jimmy Choos?) Vote Natural Law in 2012! And remember that Larutan spelled backwards is Natural.

  210. 210.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    Just testing. Nothing to see here.

    I see several variations on the pot roast theme above. As someone else mentioned, you really can’t go wrong with any of them. My personal take:
     
    Allow the roast (a well marbeled chuck or English works well) to warm to near room temperature. Coat both sides liberally with olive oil, add kosher salt. Brown both sides in an oven safe skillet. I use a cast iron dutch oven (I lucked into a beautiful 8 qt enameled model for half price). Once well browned, remove from the heat and toss in several medium-large onions, quartered; and several cloves of garlic and several grinds of pepper (to taste). Cover and place in a 250 degree oven for 3 hours. With ca. 1 hour remaining, add your potatoes (I prefer small reds or Yukon Golds) and quartered carrots. When done, remove the meat to a covered serving plate to rest, bowl up your veggies then deglaze the pan on the stovetop with a bit of wine, then reduce the mxiture to get your sauce.
     
    So really, not that far removed from Martin’s recipe, aside from the omission of the tomato juice/V8.

  211. 211.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Anne Laurie: r o l o ?

    @MikeJ: b o o k e r ?

    (Scratches head)

    Anyhow, thanks to whomever it was who unmodded me.

  212. 212.

    Jon H

    I’m glad he’s back safe, but couldn’t you just follow the path of bent trees, tipped-over lawn furniture, and parked cars pushed down the street?

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