Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Republicans in disarray!

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

It’s the corruption, stupid.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

This blog will pay for itself.

Not all heroes wear capes.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Reader Interactions

148Comments

  2. 2.

    Jen R

    Talking Points Memo is reporting that Harry Reid is close to getting 60 votes for a public option with an opt-out clause, but that the White House is trying to weaken the bill with a trigger mechanism to get Olympia Snowe’s vote. I dearly hope this isn’t true. In case it is, I just emailed the White House, Harry Reid, both my Senators, and Nancy Pelosi.

  3. 3.

    Calouste

    “We simply decided to stop abiding by the fiction, which is aided and abetted by the mainstream press, that Fox is a traditional news organization.”

    Deputy White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer as quoted by the New York Times

  6. 6.

    Zifnab

    @Jen R: It would be nice to have a GOP vote, but why on earth would we need Opt-Out AND a trigger? That’s silly in my mind. At a certain point, I don’t see why Obama is pressing so hard for Snowe, unless he believes he’d have to compromise more to get one of the Dem hold outs. I’d like to know the rationale, at least.

  7. 7.

    Fergus Wooster

    Are they mad? Have they not been watching the polls?

    If they really push for the trigger and sabotage the public option, I plan to send my daughter’s medical bills to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

  8. 8.

    RedKitten

    Today marks the second anniversary of the best decision I ever made: marrying my awesome husband.

    By the way, what are everybody’s thoughts on the H1N1 vaccine? They just approved its use in Canada, and we’ll probably get it (mainly to protect Sam, as he’s too young for the vaccine), but you hear so damn much conflicting information.

  9. 9.

    Jen R

    I think it’s a trigger *instead* of opt-out? It’s ridiculous. The bill will never be bi-partisan, and doesn’t need to be, so I don’t see why the vote of a single Republican is so important if there are enough Democrats to pass it.

  10. 10.

    phoebes-in-santa fe

    I posted the following over on Benen about criticising Obama.

    “I don’t mind reading criticisms of the Obama administration AS LONG as they are by journalists and “pundits” who also criticised the Bush Administration.

    (Silence) (Continued Silence) (Even more Silence)

    Silence, because very few, if any, journos and pundits did criticise the Bush Administration, until the last couple of years, and even then it was tepid at best.

    Nope, from 2001 til 2007, these same professionals who wonder if Obama “is tough enough”, “too mean”, or “dithering”, sat by and watched as our once great country hit the skids in a really major way. Nothing was said by anybody.

    Maybe now they feel – collectively – that they were intimidated by the Bushites and that they won’t be by Obama.

    It’s really too, too bad. They are helping to delay a – possible – renaissance.”

  12. 12.

    valdivia

    @Jen R:

    Read Ezra Kelin on this he has what I think is the most realistic take on what is going on. No screaming headlines or anything like that just strategy and numbers.

    This has been going on since the Politico piece this morning so I think reading Klein gives one a sense of what is really happening.

  13. 13.

    Comrade Mary

    @Jen R: Yes, do go ahead and apply pressure. The more support for a proper public option (and the Wyden free choice add-on), the better.

    But I just don’t take unnamed sources at face value. We know that you can often get strategic leaks meant to drive the process, and this claim goes against what Garett said just this morning.

    It pisses me off the Josh states this claim as fact on the TPM home page.

    Harry Reid is apparently pretty close to lining up 60 votes for a Public Option with opt-out clause.
    …
    But the White House is trying to shut down his efforts. They want Snowe on board. Period.

    Reid “apparently” is pretty close, but there’s not even a “sources say” in the second paragraph.

  15. 15.

    Fergus Wooster

    I plan to! Not to mention they’ll never get another dime out of me (I won’t have that many to spare anyway).

  17. 17.

    Jen R

    @valdivia: Thanks. Ezra’s got a good roundup of the speculative politics of it all, but I figure my role as a citizen is not to try to read politicians’ minds, but just to let them know what’s on my mind.

  21. 21.

    Demo Woman

    @RedKitten: All I know is that most cases of the flu seem mild. Unfortunately, the death toll for children is at 95. It was at 77 last week. My friends neighbor has a twenty seven year old in intensive care with it and it doesn’t look good. The girl was previously healthy. I wouldn’t take a chance with Sam. My son travels a lot and as soon as possible, I hope that he gets the vaccine.

  22. 22.

    Jen R

    @Comrade Mary:

    But I just don’t take unnamed sources at face value.

    Oh, I don’t either. All my emails have said, “I hope this isn’t true, but if it is…”

    I know there’s game-playing going on, and I just think the best thing we who are not privy to all the moves can do is just keep putting pressure on.

  23. 23.

    Fergus Wooster

    OK, read Klein, and I’ll hold off on any hysterical emails. Still, seriously, shouldn’t the White House forget about Snowe and start pounding the nuts of those 20 Conservadems?

    The man needs to find his inner LBJ. Without the belching and crotch-scratching.

  24. 24.

    valdivia

    @Jen R:

    Agreed. I just think that there is this assumption on a lot of blogs that they can make this a race horse story without really knowing what is going on, and also the tendency of a lot of people to believe things that get leaked by unknown people because they just *know* Obama does not want a public option. This is about what Bill gets voted on the floor of the Senate that can get reconciled later. This is about getting those votes before the conference blend both bills.

  26. 26.

    Brick Oven Bill

    Personally, I have found this analysis to be thought-provoking, and one of the better Internet offerings of the day.

    Here again is a place to garner additional votes for Glenn the Dog. Due to a more open presence in a certain forum than is maintained here, and the fact that I do not trust Janet Napolitano, my involvement in getting LauraW the prize has had to be covert, but has nonetheless been real.

  27. 27.

    Jen R

    I think Obama does want a public option, but I fear that he wants Snowe’s vote more. Of all the things he could have an idealistic streak about, one of his biggest seems to be bipartisanship.

  29. 29.

    Fergus Wooster

    @RedKitten:
    I’d get it if it’s available. It’s not live-virus, so my one-year-old daughter will be getting it, and she’s immunocomprimised. (She can’t have her MMR, Polio vaccines yet, but she already got her regular flu shot.)

    In our case at least, it’s better to risk the side effects than risk the morbidity/mortality associated with infection, especially for kids.

    I’m pretty sure it’s not like the 1976 disaster-vaccine.

  30. 30.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Joel: To add to that article, it’s not just rural areas where UPS and FedEx outsource to USPS. A few FedEx packages recently were handed off to USPS, delivered to north Austin. Even delivered before the estimated date provided by FedEx.

    I still love how some of the commenters on that thread proclaim that the private sector could do it better. I don’t know how much cheaper postage could really get for me to care, really…

  31. 31.

    robertdsc

    You do the heavy lifting today.

    /tries to pick up Tunch

    It had to be said.

    My laptop is in Lenexa, Kansas, scheduled for delivery on the 27th. I can hardly wait.

  32. 32.

    valdivia

    Not to take over the thread but it really is about getting the bill voted without a filibuster. I read all of this not as Obama not wanting a public option but Obama and his team being very skeptical that Reid has what it takes to get this particular bill that way. sincerely, if I had to bet on someone between Obama and Reid I would go with Obama’s instincts all the way.

  33. 33.

    Midnight Marauder

    Whoa. Now we have Scientology.org banners on the site? Bring back the Filipino mail order brides.

  36. 36.

    WereBear

    RedKitten, I meant to say earlier that Sam is adorable in the red hood pics. He looks like he could be developing some ham-bone. (As in, he will be a dramatic child.)

  37. 37.

    JGabriel

    Jen R:

    … I don’t see why the vote of a single Republican is so important if there are enough Democrats to pass it.

    I’m not sure that’s what is going on here. Instead, I think it’s a concerted effort to make Snowe feel important — perhaps to eventually induce her into switching parties.

    I doubt Snowe’s HCR vote will be important in the final rounds of voting, but Senate Dems and Obama may have an interest in not pushing Snowe into the right.

    .

  38. 38.

    Comrade Mary

    If the lexicon hasn’t been backed up, there’s still a Google cache here (from 23 Oct 2009 07:24:36 GMT). Grab!

  40. 40.

    Comrade Darkness

    @RedKitten: We had the swine flu in our house for 3 weeks of misery on the part of my SO, and two days for me. The difference? I had a swine flu shot in 1976.

    If I hadn’t already had this flu, I’d be all over another shot.

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    @RedKitten #7

    Congrats on the anniversary. Many more, with zeal!

    IMHO this virus is simply too transmissible to not get the vaccine. Yes, it’s mild in most who get it, but I’m quite spooked at the way it attacks and weakens the lungs, opening the door wide to dangerous secondary infections. Two friends were knocked out about ten days each last summer with verified cases.

    We were one of the first US metro areas to get cases last spring so had first row seats for how contagious it is. When the CDC says they’re startled at how quickly it’s spreading this fall, that’s our cue.

    I plan on getting the shot, presuming the damn thing ever gets here, and my kid will be getting the inhaler asap. wife.gov is on the fence.

  46. 46.

    Sentient Puddle

    @valdivia: I haven’t exactly been keeping up with with the horse race, so I might be getting this wrong, but I’m also hearing that some shit’s going down in the House over the public option. So the watering-down may have something to do with that too…I don’t know.

  47. 47.

    valdivia

    @Demo Woman:

    yes so sad but true. The thing is that even after there is an on the record statement from the WH that they are pushing votes for the PO we have unsourced reports that are carrying the narrative. So exhausting. The same routine every week, freak out with accusations and recriminations etc. We’ll see where we are soon and enough.

  49. 49.

    valdivia

    @Sentient Puddle:

    The House problem is between a very strong PO and a weaker PO. Klein also had a very good post on Pelosi’s strategy on this. Again we’ll know soon enough. I just hate the gut reaction of some people as if they could guarantee that Obama is going to betray us.

  51. 51.

    Midnight Marauder

    @valdivia:

    I just hate the gut reaction of some people as if they could guarantee that Obama is going to betray us.

    Agreed. But after being in this kind of political climate for so long, where cynicism is bred with such ease, it’s hard for some people not to succumb to that inclination. But the landscape for legitimate HCR certainly seems dramatically improved from where it was just a few weeks ago, and most definitely from the mad days of the summer.

  53. 53.

    Dustin

    On a completely unrelated note I’ve got a question for the BJ legion:

    All this talk of Windows 7 has me thinking it’s time to finally breakdown and get a laptop. My requirements are pretty simple, that it be able to play Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age when they come out (I’m a major Bioware junkie). So… Any suggestions that won’t completely break the bank?

  54. 54.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Chad N Freude

    Great link, I almost squirted Diet 7-Up out of my nose when I read this:

    The Wall Street Journal is hoping for a Hoffman win, but will openly accept a Democratic victory, too: “Above all, a defeat would teach Republicans that running candidates who believe in nothing will keep them in the minority for years to come.”

    Yeah, double down on the crazy guys. It’s a winning strategy.

  55. 55.

    Sentient Puddle

    @valdivia: A ha, so the coverage I was reading was probably over-reactive. With that, the sense that I’m getting is that whatever the House decides on will be no weaker than what the Senate settles on, where that bill seems to me like it will be somewhere on the line of opt-out to trigger.

    So…I don’t know, maybe they are trying to get Snowe to switch parties? Her support in Maine is actually higher from Democrats than Republicans, and it seems to me that if they weren’t trying to flip her, the campaign against her (2012, right?) pretty much writes itself.

  56. 56.

    geg6

    @valdivia:

    It’s not worth it at all if we don’t get a real public option without triggers. Rockefeller is right. There are no cases where a trigger is ever pulled. Ever.

    I’d rather have nothing than a trigger. Because if all we get is a trigger, we have a bill that is nothing but a huge fucking gift to insurance companies and a big fat fuck you to you and me.

  58. 58.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Wile E. Quixote: Yeah, you’d think that Republicans would look back at the Club For Growth strategy over the past few elections and realize that it’s been a rousing failure.

    Speaking of which, I also did not know that CfG endorsed Hoffman. But on a scale of 1 to 10, my level of surprise was 0.

  59. 59.

    valdivia

    @geg6:

    I am happy with an opt out. And not happy with the trigger either. My one and only point is that we have no idea that this is what Obama wants, all there are unsourced comments that Obama is pushing for it and prefers it. When asked point blank Burton said they are pushing for a po in the senate.

  60. 60.

    Crashman06

    @Dustin: I’m looking forward to Dragon Age too.

    But honestly, are you sure you want a laptop? I haven’t checked Dragon Age’s specs, but I have a feeling it would strain the hell out of a mid range laptop. You could get a much better gaming experience for much less money from a desktop.

  61. 61.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Dustin

    …
    On a completely unrelated note I’ve got a question for the BJ legion:
    …
    All this talk of Windows 7 has me thinking it’s time to finally breakdown and get a laptop. My requirements are pretty simple, that it be able to play Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age when they come out (I’m a major Bioware junkie). So… Any suggestions that won’t completely break the bank?

    Yes, buy a cheap laptop that does everything you need for work and then buy an XBox 360 or PS/3 for playing games. You’ll end up with an excellent laptop and an excellent gaming platform and come out ahead of trying to get a laptop that has the graphics capabilities necessary for games like Mass Effect 2.

    I’m not being a smart-ass here. I gave up on PC gaming earlier this year and bought an XBox 360. I got tired of having to upgrade my video cards, patch Windows and do all of the other annoying crap that you have to do in order to play intensely graphical games on a PC. It’s just not worth it any more, and most games don’t take advantage of all of that nifty DirectX eye-candy anyways. Consoles like the XBox 360 or PS/3 (Hey, can we start that flamewar too? Notice that I didn’t mention the Wii?) are easy and just work.

  62. 62.

    Chad N Freude

    @valdivia: I would like to know why Obama is maintaining this lofty silence. Unless there is some Machiavellian, Byzantine manipulation going on, he could rouse public opinion with a press conference or a network event. So what’s up with the aloofness?

  64. 64.

    Svensker

    @RedKitten:

    By the way, what are everybody’s thoughts on the H1N1 vaccine?

    Haven’t heard anything bad about it. I am very anxious for my college son in Toronto to get it since his age group seems particularly hard hit by it.

    The only negative I’ve heard — and this from Canadian sources — is that the regular flu vaccine combined with the H1N1 may be problematic for some people. Canada, or at least Ontario, was waiting to release the H1N1 vaccine until they had looked at the combo problem more thoroughly.

  65. 65.

    Crashman06

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    Yes, buy a cheap laptop that does everything you need for work and then buy an XBox 360 or PS/3 for playing games.

    This is a good point. You could probably get a cheap ASUS netbook, and an Xbox for $500, maybe even less.

    I’ll be playing Dragon Age on PC instead of Xbox, only because I built a beastly new desktop last year that never gets used for anything. Might as well use that power for something.

  66. 66.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Crashman06: $300 for the Xbox, actually. Maybe less…I haven’t been paying attention (I gots mine).

    I too am almost to the point where I’m off PC gaming. If only consoles could do MMOs, RTSs, and city-builders worth a damn, then I’d be set.

  67. 67.

    WyldPiratd

    Seriously, who gives a wet rats’s ass about motherfuckin’ Olympia Snowe? She’s a goddamned dried up corpse that can still walk.

    Fuck a bunch of bipartisan shit…the Rethugs are the mortal enemy of everything that is right and decent about this country–and there isn’t much that is right and decent left, either. Cooperating with the Rethug cocksuckers is nothing but capitulation to evil.

  69. 69.

    valdivia

    @Chad N Freude:

    I think that the moment for that is actually when both bills have been voted on in the each chamber. This is a very delicate time and things can get fucked up if Obama pushes publicly. I know people want him to get on tv and do this but he is pulling the strings from behind trying to get the bills to the floor. The people that are on point here have been working very hard so I think the idea that he is aloof is wrong. there are ways of being involved and I think him doing what you suggest would be a mistake. but that is just my sense of the delicate moment we are in and I base this on Klein more than anything else.

  70. 70.

    Joel

    I went with an HTPC build starting with a Shuttle KPC K45. It’s now obsolete but I managed to get a Pentium Duo processor (tested favorably with Core 2 Duos), 2 gigs of memory, 500GB of HD space and nice performance hooked up to my TV for ~$300. And it’s got great form factor. I use mine as an HTPC and general purpose browser/etc exclusively but if you wanted to play games on it, it would be easy. And hooked up to an LCD TV is a lot cheaper than a monitor of similar specs.

  71. 71.

    lol

    @22: The logic, which I think Ezra Klein or Matt Ysglacias made, was that you might give up less negotiating with a moderate Republican from Maine than a conservative Democrat from Nebraska. Also, adding Snowe provides political cover for moderates because it’s the “bi-partisan” bill they desire more than actual policy. Thus, you might gain more votes negotiating just with Snowe than a group of moderate Democrats individually.

  73. 73.

    JGabriel

    Atrios:

    The optimistic reading of this is that Obama is willing to trade for Snowe’s support for the Senate bill and then push for a better bill in the conference with the House. The less optimistic reading is obvious.

    I guess I’m sticking with (hoping for) the “optimistic” reading.

    It makes sense, especially if Obama doesn’t like “opt-out”. In that case maybe you want the less popular “trigger” mechanism to go to conference and beat it there.

    Or, maybe I’m just hopelessly naive.

    .

  74. 74.

    Chad N Freude

    he is pulling the strings from behind trying to get the bills to the floor

    A faith-based assertion. I’m skeptical. I have no idea what he’s doing.

  75. 75.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @geg6

    Why does anyone listen to Rahm Emanuel? Emanuel is a fuckup. Yeah, he helped Clinton win in 1992. Big fucking deal, Clinton was running against George H.W. Bush who had been weakened by breaking his “read my lips, no new taxes” pledge and the candidacy of H. Ross Perot, as well as a bunch of other stupid shit like letting Pat Buchanan speak at the Republican convention and the nomination of Clarence “Affirmative Action and tokenism are bad, unless of course I’m benefitting from them” Thomas to the Supreme Court.

    Emanuel is no more competent than Mark Penn or Bob Shrum. He’s another hack who got lucky once and his career is based upon that and nothing more.

  76. 76.

    Tom Q

    I’m really feeling about health care the way I did about the Franken/Coleman recount — wake me up when there’s a final score. The second-by-second interim reports are generally wrong, and useless, but they will raise the blood pressure if you let them.

    And I’m truly tired of the same hysterical lefties screaming “Obama’s screwing us!” every single time some unsourced rumor hits the web. All of these folk had the public option — any trace of it — in the coffin back in August. Now it’s a matter of which variation on it endures (and even that just to get past the Senate intially; no one knows how much things could be improved in House/Senate conference). You’d think a few of these people would remember how wrong they were ten weeks ago and hold their fire.

    I think what’s really going on is, this is the first piece of truly major Congressional legislation that’s ever had to endure either the 24-hour news cycle or the blogs — neither of which institutions have the slightest awareness of or patience for the vagaries of the sausage-making progress. Civil rights and Medicare would both have been pronounced dead multiple times under such a regimen.

  77. 77.

    burnspbesq

    TNC has a clip of Congressman Anthony Weiner with Tweety that I strongly recommend. Me Likee Anthony. He makee sense. I especially like the part where he says, “I’m a liberal. I’m for single payer. For me, the public option is the compromise.”

  78. 78.

    Dustin

    I’d agree with you guys that a laptop’s not the ideal solution but there are two factors here:

    1) From everything I’ve heard the party AI tweaking system won’t available for the 360.

    2) My next computer (I only buy or build one ever 6-10 years) WILL be a laptop, simply because at this point in my life being tied down in the office like a hermit isn’t an option anymore. A wife and child saw to that.

  79. 79.

    valdivia

    @Chad N Freude:

    maybe he just letting others fuck up his signature initiative? or maybe he really is a republican who does not want reform? come on! we do not know what he wants in his hearts of hearts, but he is definitely working very hard to get this done. I am not taking anything on faith–not the hysterical he is going to screw us line nor the he is a saint line. I think he is trying to get this done and we have to see where it comes out. All along the plan has been to get this shaped the right way on committee later, he said it months ago. I just don’t know why people think he had a different strategy.

  80. 80.

    JGabriel

    Dustin:

    My requirements are pretty simple, that it be able to play Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age when they come out (I’m a major Bioware junkie). So… Any suggestions that won’t completely break the bank?

    Nope. If you want to play upcoming games, then you should get something with a quad-core, or at least a tri-core chip. And those aren’t in laptops at prices that “won’t break the bank.”

    What you should probably do is wait until early next year, when Intel will introduce hyper-threaded dual-core processors for laptops.

    That’ll give you enough processor power for upcoming games, but you’ll still have to research what you need for decent graphics — right now the best graphics solutions for laptops are NVidia’s 280m, 260m, and AMD’s Mobility 3870, all of which are based on chipsets that are two generations old.

    .

  82. 82.

    gwangung

    @Tom Q: Exactly.

    Some folks are paying wayyyyyy too much attention to the daily news cycle.

    Obama isn’t.

    We shouldn’t.

  83. 83.

    Sentient Puddle

    @Tom Q: I sort of feel you, but I think there is one key difference: at one point relatively early in the process, it became clear that Franken would win and that Coleman was dragging his feet as much as he could. With health care, we still don’t have a great idea of how it will look.

    But yeah, the hysteria is quite unfounded.

  84. 84.

    Little Dreamer

    Wikipedia has added Orly Taitz to it’s collection of notorious people, unfortunately, they link to her website which has been known to contain malware and don’t post any warnings.

  85. 85.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Joel

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; the only reason McMegan McArdle has the job she has is because someone at the Atlantic was hoping that if they hired her they’d get to fuck her, not because of any qualifications she has. McMegan is to the Atlantic what Sarah Palin is to Rich Lowry and the Republican Party.

    Last winter we got hit with a snowstorm in the Seattle area that pretty much shut things down (and before I hear you midwesterners or east coasters laugh about the amount of snow it takes to screw things up out here I’m going to tell you to look at a topo map of the Puget Sound Area and compare it to a topo map of where you live). UPS fucked everyone, they sent out their trucks, weren’t able to make deliveries and ended up taking hundreds of thousands of packages and tossing them into trailers so that even if you were willing to go to the UPS center to pick up your items you couldn’t, because UPS had no idea where they were. FedEx did better but the USPS were the champs, they were out every day and my mail was only delayed by one day.

    When McMegan McArdle and the other Gliberati can show me a private company which will take a message in Seattle and deliver to my sister in Philadelphia for 45 cents and which performed as well as the USPS did during our inclement weather last winter we’ll have something to talk about. Until then I wish she’d just stop attempting to earn her keep at the Atlantic by being “The world’s tallest econoblogger” and just get down on her knees and blow the editors.

  86. 86.

    liberal

    @valdivia:

    I just hate the gut reaction of some people as if they could guarantee that Obama is going to betray us.

    I don’t have any gut feeling he’ll betray us. He certainly did in terms of continuing all the handouts to the banksters, however.

  87. 87.

    inkadu

    @Demo Woman: My sister refuses to vaccinate my two little nieces with anything, much less with the H1N1 flu virus. I’m thinking of smuggling them into the doctors office and getting them vaccinated. I know it’s a violation of trust, but she’d do the same for me if I had kids whom I refused to baptise.

  89. 89.

    Zifnab

    @geg6: Well, assuming Rahm isn’t being a complete asinine imbecile, I’d ask the same question.

    Democrats certainly have more leverage over other Democrats in theory. But in practice? Is Baucus going to be an oily little twat and refuse to vote on closure because he can’t have his Co-ops and stronger insurance mandates?

    It would be great if Obama could get some cover from the Republican side not because it makes him “bipartisan” but because it gives more muscle to the faction within his own party. Suddenly, whipping all 60 votes isn’t necessary and the Joe Liebermans and Evan Bayhs and Kent Conrads lose a little clout within the caucus itself because they aren’t as necessary as they liked to think they were.

    Likewise, it makes life very hard for the NRSC, because they can’t be relied on to effectively stand strong and maintain a filibuster. Why donate $50k to chairman John Cornyn, when that money would be better spent soliciting Snowe directly? Who cares about Chuck Grassley when his pull with Max Baucus doesn’t amount to any change in legislation?

    Republican breakaways strengthen the Democratic Party. They’re worth going after, for political clout. Whether they’re worth going after from policy perspective… we’ll see.

  90. 90.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Emanuel is no more competent than Mark Penn or Bob Shrum. He’s another hack who got lucky once and his career is based upon that and nothing more.

    Emanuel is an asshole and highly political but is no imcompatent . He presided over a pretty successful DCCC in 2006 and is as good as anybody at cracking heads. Comparing him to Mark Penn and Bob Shrum is way out of bounds. He is pragmatic to a fault sometimes, most times, but incompatent, sorry, but that’s BS.

  91. 91.

    inkadu

    @Dustin: Can you play games on a laptop comfortably? If you’re playing an FPS you’ll need a table to put the mouse down on.

    You could get a desktop and a very cheap laptop or netbook. Keep the desktop on the desk, and use the laptop to keep yourself amused on Balloon-Juice while pretending to pay attention to the toddler to placate your wife.

    We’ll see how long that lasts.

    “Dustin, Jr. is putting paper clips into the electric socket!”
    – “Hold on… I’m just… finishing… this… post…”

  93. 93.

    smiley

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    Last winter we got hit with a snowstorm in the Seattle area that pretty much shut things down (and before I hear you midwesterners or east coasters laugh about the amount of snow it takes to screw things up out here I’m going to tell you to look at a topo map of the Puget Sound Area and compare it to a topo map of where you live).

    Heh. I lived in Seattle in the early ’90s and we had 4-6 inches one winter. Shut things down for sure. As you suggest, people don’t realize how hilly Seattle is. Cars were sliding around everywhere. Luckily, my wife and I had lived in the northeast previously and had a clue about how to drive in the snow (BTW, I lived in the Wedgewood/View Ridge neighborhood).

  95. 95.

    Comrade Darkness

    @Dustin: if the child is small, get one of those rubbery medical keyboard covers for it. You will not have a keyboard long otherwise. Unlike a desktop in its own room, you can’t shut the door to keep the kid off the laptop.

  97. 97.

    Chad N Freude

    @inkadu: Your sentiments are admirable, but if you’re serious, you’re looking at a possible criminal complaint, in addition to an irreparable family breach. Don’t do it.

  98. 98.

    The Moar You Know

    @CynDee: And then you may want to toddle on down to a real physician’s office – one who is not a blithering idiot – and get immunized against a flu that has a far more lethal track record than any vaccine ever invented.

    Take that wackass shit back to HuffPo, hippie.

  100. 100.

    smiley

    @Wile E. Quixote:
    @smiley:
    Shit, I meant to add that is certainly true that the mid west is pretty flat, the east coast is not – necessarily. I went to college in the northeast and it’s plenty hilly. The Appalachian trail runs through it after all. The difference between the northeast and Seattle is the availability of snow removal equipment. Northeastern states have it, rarely-snowed-upon Seattle does not – at least that was true in the early ’90s.

  101. 101.

    chrome agnomen

    @WyldPiratd:

    i hate the way you sugar coat your message, but i got no argument with a damn word of it.

    the spiteful tribe of the human nation, more to be pitied, were they not so pernicious.

    just sayin’

  103. 103.

    Origuy

    Apropos of nothing in particular:

    The Top Secret Drum Corps of Basel, Switzerland. I saw these guys at the 2003 Edinburgh Tattoo, and they blew everyone away. They’ve only gotten better since then.

  104. 104.

    geg6

    LOL at the Washingtonians! I know you guys don’t get much snow, but seriously? Our topography is quite hilly and we laugh at 4-6. Talk to me when you’re trying to plow through a foot or two in a little river town like mine that still has brick streets and hills all through it so a 3 block drive is like riding a roller coaster. But to your point…in ’93 we had a blizzard where we got 38 inches here. And we got our mail every day. Later than usual, but not a single day’s delay. McMegan should go fuck herself.

  105. 105.

    jl

    If all you can get is Snowe, then the bipartisan fig leaf will be total fail. So, why are they sacrificing good policy for empty symbolism?

    My guess is that, at least in domestic policy, Obama is not Mr. Change, he is more empty political schtick and Kabuki.

    “The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.”

    Which I got all mixed up. though it was from Dover Beach, but is from Second Coming.

    So, Obama has an opportunity to stop one important gyre from widening, and he plays empty symbolic political gains.

    Some Democrats, notably Reid, need to show their voters they can accomplish something, anything, and I think they have heard it directly and through polling. They may save Obama from his arrogant and too-clever conceits. Let us hope so.

  106. 106.

    General Winfield Stuck

    I don’t trust quacks like Mercola, probly bout the same as I don’t trust the FDA. However, as an adult, I have the ability to make a choice on whether I inject a vaccine into my system, and the potential risks if I do or don’t,

    Kids don’t have the knowledge nor ability to make this decision, and when faced with flu virus that is new and especially lethal to young people who have no natural immunity, a parent who doesn’t get that child immunized is taking a near criminal risk with their child imho. Get the kid vaccinated.

  108. 108.

    JenJen

    @Jen R: Per Ambinder’s twitter feed, the White House denies that TPM report:

    WH spox Dan Pfeiffer denies reports that WH is privately urging the Senate to back off of public plan b/c of Snowe. “False,” he says.

  109. 109.

    geg6

    As for HCR, I am with those who say I’ll wait to see how it all shakes out. However, if all we get is a trigger, this will be the biggest FAIL EVAH for the Dems and I will seriously consider looking for a job in Canada or Europe. I can’t live here any more with Republicans in charge and that’s what the result will be.

  110. 110.

    General Winfield Stuck

    For those getting the vapors about all the stories and leaks from unnamed “sources” saying this or that about HCR and what is going on, once again the wise ole twenty something Ezra Klein has some thoughts to consider that may reduce teh angst. Big time strategies playing out right now, some dumb as rocks and others not so much, but don’t always believe everything you read is my motto in times like these.

  112. 112.

    valdivia

    @trollhattan:

    totally agree. the show I linked to has 2 experts on this and both were unequivocal about how important this vaccination is and how not risky it is.

  113. 113.

    valdivia

    @JenJen:

    Thanks for quoting that. But of course believing the rumor is better for those who want to believe everything will go wrong. Let’s chill and see what we get. Remember 2 weeks ago there was not even a PO in senate? and people were freaking about that?

  116. 116.

    geg6

    Anyone who doesn’t vaccinate their kids is guilty of child abuse and I, personally, would have no qualms about prosecuting them for manslaughter if the child died as a result of refusal. I would also have no problem with refusing to allow any unvaccinated kids into public schools. You may have a right to refuse it for yourself or your kid, but you don’t have a right to endanger others and that’s what such refusals do. Period. This is midieval quackery at its worst.

  117. 117.

    JenJen

    @valdivia: I hate to see TPM using anonymous sourcing for a story like that. I mean, I expect that from the Washington Post, but not an actual news organization, you know? I’d love to know who keeps pulling everyone’s leg on the White House’s inner thoughts. More importantly, I’d like to know when the media, including TPM, is going to stop reaching for the low hanging fruit.

    By the way, what happened to the edit? Let’s blame Windows 7!

  118. 118.

    Ella in NM

    @RedKitten:
    Congratulations on your Anniversary! By the way, the baby pic’s have been adorable.

    I just completed a huge Community and Public Health Nursing project regarding H1N1 for my degree this semester, so I can tell you every stinking currently known detail about it and the vaccine.:-)

    Get it, and as soon as possible. Get the regular flu vaccine too. The people at highest risk are #1-pregnant women, which you recently were, and #2-caretakers of children under six months of age, which you are.

    Ignore the anti-vaccine crazies (Even Bill Maher, who I normally love) who say you can use good nutrition to avoid getting this–plenty of young, healthy people are dying from it, regardless of diet. And it won’t give you Gulf War Syndrome or Autism or turn you into a zombie for the Illuminati and their quest for a New World Order.

    The H1N1 vaccine is made in the exact same way as all seasonal flu vaccines are made, and has the exact same safety profile (which is one of the best in vaccine history). Unless you are allergic to eggs (from which the virus is developed) or have a history of serious bad reactions or have a neuromuscular disease (Guillen-Barre, Cerebral Palsy for example) you should never know you even got the shot.

    For the utmost safety, get the IM (intramuscular) injection, not the Flumist if you have an option, just to limit the potential for transmitting weaked live virus to the baby, (or even making yourself ill, since your immune system may not yet have returned to pre-pregancy vigor).

    Good luck. Enjoy your horrible Canadian Health Care System, you socialist you. ;-)

  119. 119.

    jl

    jenjen, valdivia, Stuck,

    OK, thanks. I will take a few deep breaths and chill.
    I have to admit that some of what I say these days is justing venting my opinion that the healthcare debate has revealed such deep corruption, ruthlessness, and deep and depraved bad faith in GOP and corporate Democrats that I feel need to vent at at any excuse.

    I been re-radicalized by political reality therapy, and feel the need to stock up on torches and pitchforks.

  120. 120.

    jl

    Damn, no edit again. Shouldn’t try to comment at work, since I am not good enough typer to make fast comments during breaks.

  122. 122.

    geg6

    I realized that I’m sounding a little cantankerous today. Sorry, folks. It’s a been a rough week and it’s not over as I have to preside over our scholarship luncheon tomorrow. I think I’ll settle down tonight with my John, watch the Pens, eat some pizza (sorry, BoB, but it’s not a brick oven), and drink a few beers. The way they’ve been playing, the Pens should make it all better.

  123. 123.

    Joel

    I live in Seattle as well. The city just isn’t prepared for snowstorms and it’s not really economically feasible to do so. Last winter cost Nickels his job, and while I wasn’t a huge fan of his, there’s something to be said about continuity. There’s a lot of ambiguity about Mallahan and McGinn and I’m not really comfortable with either.

  124. 124.

    JenJen

    @jl: Oh, it’s completely disgusting, watching this wretched process. I don’t blame you at all for being sickened. I’d say don’t immediately believe any of those anony-source articles about the White House, but I’m a natural skeptic and even I was taken aback a bit by the TPM piece.

  126. 126.

    valdivia

    @JenJen:

    Yes me too. I have seen a change in tone in the last few weeks with their new team of reporters. I don’t want to paint with a broad brush but the woman who used to work at the Washington Times is always talking about ‘the controversial public option’ and stuff like that. Always trying to make everything about conflict. I think the village spirit has come with this new crew and this is why the front page screamed the way it did. Hope they get over this soon and get back to the good muckracking they use to do.

  127. 127.

    ellaesther

    Anybody else overdosing on the pre-J Street conference kerfluffle? No, just me?

    Ok then. /Jewish geek/

    (But I will say this: I’ve never seen AIPAC acting scared before, and I’m kind of enjoying it, when I’m not wringing my hands over the futility of it all).

  129. 129.

    burnspbesq

    @scav:

    Yes you may say that. I haven’t pardoned Biden for being the Senator from MBNA for all those years, but I will give him credit for exceeding my expectations of him as Veep.

  130. 130.

    Martin

    The bill will never be bi-partisan, and doesn’t need to be, so I don’t see why the vote of a single Republican is so important if there are enough Democrats to pass it.

    I think Obama wants the Senate to say exactly that. I don’t believe he really wants to weaken it, I think he wants the Senate to push him back and stand up for the bill without a trigger, rather than limp into it as they are now with everyone wondering if any Dems will flip on cloture.

    Honestly, the trigger is so not-Obama. I’m convinced this is a tactic.

  133. 133.

    ellaesther

    @valdivia: Ah, the Livni letter! I meant to add it as an update on my own blog post on the topic! I must scuttle off to do so, because so far, it’s the only excellent thing to have emerged from the insanity. It’s especially impressive when one considers her background, growing up in a family of influential and uncompromising Revisionists, and serving as a leading light in the Likud for years, herself.

    And of course you loathe Oren. What’s not to loathe?

  134. 134.

    valdivia

    @ellaesther:

    I really am very impressed by her, more and more actually. And I think that it is precisely because of her background that she gets why things need to change. Long long ago I used to ‘know’ Beitar people that was an experience I will never forget. Maniakim.

    Oren is an ass. Self important and a jerk.

    and shabat shalom.

  135. 135.

    inkadu

    @Chad N Freude: If I vaccinate my nieces their mothers wishes, can I plead self-defense? After all, they’re likely to bring the germs to me thereby putting me at risk.

    I’m very glad to see the anti-vaccination nonsense knocked down so quickly and thoroughly on this board. I am also greatly amused that “holistic” practicioners attack proven medicine by saying that people make money off of it, then turn around and offer you overpriced water.

  137. 137.

    Chad N Freude

    @inkadu: I’ve always been fascinated by the “I don’t have to show you any stinkin’ scientific evidence” crowd. Controlled medical studies are evil, anecdotal reports of treatment effects are proof, while every time a scientific study determines that some folk remedy really does work, they claim the study validates ALL of their claims about EVERYTHING. Consistency and logic, not to mention reality, are not their strongest points.

  138. 138.

    bago

    Heh. I’ve been snowboarding down Madison street before. Where I live when I’m not in DC is on the north face of Queen Anne. STEEP!

  139. 139.

    RedKitten

    @Ella in NM: Yeah, we’ve pretty much decided to get it. I’m just worried for Sam, because they won’t give the H1N1 vaccine to any kiddies under the age of 6 months. And they say that if I breastfeed him, I can then pass on some of my immunities, but those particular wells have pretty much dried up. So short of barricading ourselves in the house and refusing all visitors, I feel pretty helpless about how to protect him.

  141. 141.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @RedKitten:

    You may have already read this from the CDC, but here is the link on what mothers with newborn infant can do to protect their babies. Your anxiety is understandable due to Sam being so young/ But you and everyone else that comes in contact with him can and should get the vaccine.

    The only other thing I can think of is getting a top notch Hepa air filter to put in his room. I have heard that anyone born after 1950 will have progressively less antibody protections against this particular virus. Just try not to worry to much, though that’s easier said than done.

    In about 4 months he can get the vaccine, so that’s a good thing/

  142. 142.

    inkadu

    @Chad N Freude: There is so much wrong with the anti-vaxers it’s hard to know where to begin. I think my all time favorite, though, is historical ignorance… like all the problems in the world are somehow caused by modern living and modern medicine, and if we could just get back to eating fruits and vegetables, we’d all live to be a hundred. The fact that most children died before three in “the good old days” does not phase in the slightest.

    I do cut them a break on the scientific evidence though; I think they really do believe they have scientific evidence. It certainly doesn’t start as a scientific proposition for them, but a few random references to random studies (invalid, outdated, or outliers), the word “thimerosol” (it sounds like a chemical, oh my god!), and the majority of the people think the scientific debate is over.

    The leading lights, though, who debate the studies and claim to do the research… those folks are straight denialists…

    It reminds me of religion in a lot of ways.

  143. 143.

    Chad N Freude

    @inkadu: Small point: I wasn’t referring just to the anti-vax crowd, but to the “holistic” healing crowd. The anti-vaxers selectively glom onto negative or ambiguous reports and authorities (they don’t read the actual studies) and think it’s settled science.

  144. 144.

    Ella in NM

    @RedKitten:

    I understand your fears. He appears to be a very healthy little guy, but even so, he is still really little doesn’t have a fully developed immune capacity for a few months yet. The only thing you can do is limit his exposure in public until he’s older, and keep him away from any little kids or other folks who are around people with H1N1. You might get accuses of being a little OCD, but insist that everyone that is around him washes their hands, uses hand sanitizer in between holdings, keeps respiratory hygiene when they’re around you, etc. Those “standard precautions” are time proven in keeping nurses and their patients healthy, and it goes a long way for everyone else, too.

    It seems like a ridiculous return to my grandma’s days, but we used to keep babies away from everyone for months back in the day when we didn’t think an antibiotic would cure every ill. I’m starting to think that those folks had it right. People will tell you otherwise, but until the kiddos can mount a more mature immune response, they are at big risk.

    19 years ago, my second son was this giant 9.5 lb lb. breastfed baby, healthy as a horse, and at the time the conventional wisdom was that overly-protecting newborns from exposure was silly, that they were better off being exposed to the real world, etc. So, I took him out in public when he was about 2-3 weeks old and he somehow picked up Respiratory Syncitial Virus, which causes severe lung disease in preemies and newborns, and like H1N1, is not “curable”. He had to be hospitalized several days for acute respiratory distress when he was exactly 1 month old, which was terrifying. Even though he beat it, he was one of those kids who always had chronic ear and lung infections for years afterwards, which I later found out was common post-RSV infections because it tends to overtax their immune systems for a long time. It really made him the most miserable and cranky little fellow, well into his kindergarten days.

    Anyway…Had I known then what I know now, I would have put him in a big friggin’ plastic bubble until he was six months old. :-)

  145. 145.

    inkadu

    @Chad N Freude: Ah. The holistic crowd… My favorite thing about them is the fact they don’t seem to understand what “holistic” means. Holistic is supposed to mean a system of treatment that considers and addresses social, psychological, spiritual (whatever), and physical, while allopathic medicine just treats the physical.

    It’s funny because 98% of “holistic” remedies are just “take this pill / tincture.” So much for the superiority of that approach. People want medicine because their physical bodies are sick, not because they’re on the outs with their mother in law.

  146. 146.

    trollhattan

    @ Ella in NM

    I’m picturing the Giant Baby in a likewise Giant Hamster Ball(tm) thumping his way around the house and the image is cracking me up.

    That must have been quite a scare. Nobody should have to “return” their infant to the hospital. We had our share of scares too, and I’m glad to say our OB and now our pediatrician are both absolutely top-flight and straight shooters.

  147. 147.

    Anne Laurie

    @tammanycall:

    It looks like “Southland” ’s getting picked up by TNT.

    If that actually happens, it will make two of the front-page posters happy! Here’s hoping!

    Although sucky as NBC is for dropping that show, MERCY is really growing on me. The latest episode even featured a Jack Russell terrier in a guest role {grin}.

  148. 148.

    slightly_peeved

    Am I the only person who thinks TPM’s really gone to shit recently with all the “anonymous sources say” rubbish? They keep concoting all these stories about Obama’s lack of interest in the public option, despite the fact Obama’s position hasn’t deviated one bit from his speeches at the start of this whole mess. Then bunches of commenters fall over themselves to cry betrayal. Anyone unwilling to believe anonymous sources making vague accusations of uncharacteristic behaviour is described as “naive”.

    I’ve heard comments, particularly in the case of the Nobel Peace Prize, that foreign people have such a high opinion of Obama because they view him as some ideal, rather than a sensible centrist politican. Things like the TPMDC comment thread on this story actually lead me to believe it’s the other way around; the rest of the world are perfectly well aware of Obama’s failings, but their expectations are more realistic than a significant portion of the US public. “Oooh, he’s not living up to his campaign promises!” Yes, but he hasn’t invaded a country, choked on snack food, nailed a woman half his age, criticised the moral standing of fictional characters or funnelled money to South American death squads so by the standards of recent US presidents, he’s still doing pretty damn impressively. I mean, 48% of you or so voted for a undead man whose two main careers were crashing planes and marrying rich women and a woman whose every statement was the verbal equivalent of a t-shirt covered in wolves. Keep putting the pressure on the White House to enact your agenda, and work like hell for progressive candidates in primaries, but accept that pushing the Overton window back to somewhere left of Genghis Khan isn’t going to happen in one presidency. It will require consistent, coordinated effort from both progressives and the Democratic Party, and that means not taking your ball and going home if they don’t give you exactly what you wanted. That behaviour’s what got you 8 years of an administration who were actively trying to make your country worse.

Comments are closed.