Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

I really should read my own blog.

I was promised a recession.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

“woke” is the new caravan.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

You are here: Home / Science & Technology / Speaking of Windows 7

Speaking of Windows 7

by | 126 Comments

This post is in: 

Following the advice of too many readers to name, I wrote this post on a Toshiba Netbook running Win7. After removing the crapware and installing Google Chrome and MalwareBytes the tiny computer runs quite smoothly. A system like this will not power the next Pixar movie, but for office tasks and internet surfing, even image-heavy sites like flickr, the system honestly runs just as fast as any other computer that I have used.

Win 7 unquestionably works better out of the box than Vista, at least on a new machine (sorry, John), and several people have told me that it even benchmarks a little faster than XP. On the other hand Redmond made the weird decision to bundle a crippled version of Win7 (“starter”) that will not do ordinary things like play a DVD movie unless you pay for a $79 upgrade. The decision makes some sense since you cannot use DVDs at all without buying a separate external drive, but it still feels like a dick move.

Battery life looks like a high point. A test similar to what Walt Mossberg does* suggests that the 6-cell battery should weather more than seven hours of continuous use. God knows how long it will run in Toshiba’s proprietary “eco mode”. For those who need to know, Toshiba took a hint from Prius and tossed in meters that can measure savings in units ranging from processor power to amusing trifles like grams of carbon.

Overall the netbook seems like a well thought out niche product for people like me who travel professionally and don’t need to play Crysis on the plane.

(*) Internet radio streaming through itunes, surfing the net with Chrome, OpenOffice running, no sleep for the screen or processor, medium sound volume and screen brightness.

Reader Interactions

126Comments

  2. 2.

    Sentient Puddle

    Wait what? That netbook has Starter? I thought those were only going to developing markets.

    Nevertheless, I’m so very sorry.

  4. 4.

    Fencedude

    Edit: Though the Sora no Otoshimono flying panties thread Anne posted a few nights back was very close.

  6. 6.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Fencedude:

    flying panties thread

    I was wondering if college kids still have panty raids on campus. I remember my first one, and thinking nukular war had started and everyone was rushing to the womens dorm for a bomb shelter. Then all these panties started raining down. Man, I was dumb as Georgia Clay in those days.

  7. 7.

    James K Polk, Esq.

    Knew that you would enjoy the netbook. Everyone who gets one falls in love. They’re too cute not to want one.

  9. 9.

    ellaesther

    You people are breaking my heart. I was supposed to get a netbook for my birthday last month — and what I got instead was an unexpected $1,200 car bill. Fucking hell.

  15. 15.

    stinkwrinkle

    *sigh* DVD playing software (the legal kind, anyway) requires a stiff licensing fee for the decryption libraries. People always get annoyed that DVD playing software is extra, they think it’s just something computers should do. Hey, I agree, but I’m not one of the soulless pigf*ckers that do DRM. (I’m one of the soulless pigf*ckers that evade DRM. Essential difference, there!)

  17. 17.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    @Fencedude: Whose talking canines? It’s all about politics, vicious backbiting, kicking, biting, clawing vindictiveness at its finest. Not quite the piewars at GOS a few years ago, but close…

  18. 18.

    ek hornbeck

    Yep, works fine on hardware designed for it and installed from scratch.

    It always does.

    Me?

    XP Pro for work and Ubuntu for fun.

  19. 19.

    burnspbesq

    I am entirely happy with my Toshiba netbook. I bought it so that no matter how far the idiot in front of me on the plane pushed his or her seat back, I would still be able to work. The bonus is that it’s much better than an iPod Touch for watching video on airplanes. I put XP Pro, Office, iTunes, and Acrobat on it, and it has been rock sold from Day One. Bottom line: although I am a confirmed Mac guy, I feel no need at all to go down Hackintosh Road. The only thing I will do is swap out the mechanical hard drive for an SSD when prices come down some more, to get longer battery life.

  20. 20.

    Roger Moore

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I was wondering if college kids still have panty raids on campus.

    I don’t think so. We didn’t have them when (and where) I was going to school almost 20 years ago. I think that they key phrase in your post is “the womens dorm”. AFAIK, gender separated housing is uncommon these days except at the kind of religious fanatic school that wouldn’t let students engage in panty raids in the first place.

  22. 22.

    Fencedude

    @Roger Moore:

    Yeah, we didn’t have them either when I was in college (9 years ago)

    …granted I went to an engineering college that was like, 85% male, so females were considered rare and wonderous beings.

    …and despite that dorms were still essentially co-ed.

  23. 23.

    Cain

    @Laura W:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Did I say I’m on my period and it’s a really heavy flow?
    I’m Cramping as we speak.

    LauraW, shame on you. Leading BoB on like this. He’s probably taking off his shorts and starting a session of “bob for apples” followed by “stroke the pole”.

    cain

  24. 24.

    General Winfield Stuck

    Did I say I’m on my period and it’s a really heavy flow?

    Filed under too much information

  25. 25.

    ericblair

    @Fencedude: …granted I went to an engineering college that was like, 85% male, so females were considered rare and wonderous beings.

    Testify, brother. So did I, and my wondrous university didn’t even have a nursing faculty to balance out the engineering. Piss poor thinking, that.

  26. 26.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Laura W: Yeah, I’m kinda stoked myself. Got the spa cleaned out, my argument essay done for class next Wednesday and I GOT THE CALL TODAY.

  29. 29.

    Fencedude

    @ericblair:

    heh, at my university people kept pushing for them to institute a flight attendant program (it was an Aeronautical/Aerospace University, with one of the largest pilot training programs in the country) to pull up the female enrollment.

    My major actually was one of the closest to a 50/50 split, interestingly enough.

  31. 31.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    OT: I guess C+ Augustus has decidered to demote himself to D+ Augustus. Seems that the Better Business Bureau rates the company of the couple who hosts these $19.00 seminars worthy of a D+ BBB rating.

    Water truly seeks its own level.

  32. 32.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Roger Moore:

    Yes, it was at the end of the Victorian Age when little old ladies fainted at the prospect of coed dorms. Christ, I now feel old.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    @Fencedude:

    granted I went to an engineering college that was like, 85% male, so females were considered rare and wonderous beings.

    Yeah, I know the drill. The ratio was about 7:1 in my class, but had worked its way down to about 5:2 in the Freshman class the year I graduated.

    Probably more important than that, though, was just that the social situation at colleges has completely changed. Women go to school to get a BS and start a career, not to get a Mrs. and start a family. These days, a panty raid would be seen as a form of harrasment, not as a fun way to meet the opposite sex.

  34. 34.

    mclaren

    This is why Windows 7 represents such a huge improvement over Windows XP/2000. It helpfully removes a great deal of functionality from your computer, which prevents you from wasting your time on frivolous things like watching DVDs.

    Windows 7 also helpfully slows down your computer, giving you plenty of time to think as you wait and wait and wait for the machine to boot up and the programs to open. This helps focus your thoughts.

    Best of all, Windows 7 spontaneously stops printing and unpredictably cuts you off from the net, which keeps you from wasting a lot of time online and dithering around with hardcopy. It’s a brand new sparkling digital world, and Microsoft wants you to get away from messy paper and that icky time-wasting internet.

    As time goes on and your Windows 7 computers gets progressively slower and blackscreens more and more often, the advantages of Microsoft’s latest operating system will become increasingly clear. Wise choice!

  37. 37.

    madmommy

    So, I’ve been considering getting a laptop/netbook because it’s getting to the point that having only one computer with 4 people is a PITA. Judging from the recent travails of our host, I’m thinking that waiting till Windows 7 is standard would be the prudent thing to do. Plus I might be able to get a better deal waiting for after-Christmas sales.

    Right now I’ve got a generic PC desktop hooked up to a DSL modem. How difficult is it to go wireless? Can I do it myself or do I need a geek?

  38. 38.

    robertdsc

    that will not do ordinary things like play a DVD movie unless you pay for a $79 upgrade.

    So if I imaged a DVD and copied it to the netbook, it wouldn’t play? At all?

  40. 40.

    Hmmm

    DVD playback requires decryption, which means paying someone a license. So there’s actually a reasonable explanation for a crippled-so-its-affordable version of Win7 not to feature DVD playback. It’s the same reason you generally can’t find free/open source versions of software-only dvd players (powerdvd, winddvd, etc) though that has become more of a moot point since hardware decoders in video cards and whatnot become so common.

  41. 41.

    Joe Max

    A Windows 7 machine that has a DVD drive doesn’t play DVDs?

    Your kidding, right? An extra 80 bucks?

    Not to start an OS war, but I’m shocked, shocked I am. Every Mac I’ve owned, since the first iMac, that had a DVD drive played DVD movies out of the box.

    Steve Balmer blows goats. Also.

  42. 42.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    Windows 7 killed my mother and raped my father! Hold it! No! It killed and raped my neighbor’s dog!

    IMO, Windows 7 is marginally better than Vista and other than a pretty interface, Vista flat out sucks. Anecdotal but my customers running Vista (and now Windows 7) take up a hell of a lot more of my time in answering questions or solving little problems than my XP customers do (or ever did). I put together an XP system and I rarely ever hear from the customer unless they want to buy some peripheral. Not so with Vista and so far Windows 7 is shaping up to be much the same. I know there is a learning curve with new stuff but Vista has never tapered off like XP did.

    I am still running XP Pro on all of our systems except for Fedora Core 10 on our server with the son and I dual booting FC10 and XP Pro. When we have a reason to upgrade we will but right now we are very happy with our setup. There are a few game titles we can’t run, plus a few other apps, but nothing we have needed (or missed) yet. If we get to that point I will just set one machine up with whatever is needed and only use it for that.

  43. 43.

    Sentient Puddle

    @madmommy: Pretty easy. You just buy a router, hook it up between your modem and desktop, install the software on the desktop, configure a key, and you’re set.

    I remember the first time I set one up, I somehow or another managed to screw it up, but looking back, I have no idea how that happened. The instructions that come with routers are typically pretty clear.

  44. 44.

    mclaren

    Watch it, DougL. Stating the documented facts about Windows XP compared to Vista Service Pack 3 (AKA Windows 7) will get people pissed off at you.

  45. 45.

    madmommy

    @Sentient Puddle:

    So with that setup, and a laptop purchase at some point, the laptop could also run wireless? Sadly, I seem to know just enough about teh computers to be dangerous.

  46. 46.

    bago

    You should really try voice command in windows seven. I just scroll to this post and type this entire thing with my voice. It really makes you feel like you’re in blade runner.

  48. 48.

    Sentient Puddle

    @madmommy: Yes, assuming the laptop has wireless capabilities (though I think these days, you have to try really hard to find one without it). The software you install configures the network name and key (fancy cryptographic word for “password”), and then alls you gotta do is start detecting wireless networks with your laptop, find said network, and enter the key.

  49. 49.

    madmommy

    @Sentient Puddle:

    Thanks for the info! Now to decide between a netbook or a laptop. The netbook price is appealing, but I do some work from home and need a number keypad, which aren’t on netbooks. But then I found out there are USB plug-in keypads. Who knew?!

  50. 50.

    Martin

    On the other hand Redmond made the weird decision to bundle a crippled version of Win7 (“starter”) that will not do ordinary things like play a DVD movie unless you pay for a $79 upgrade.

    Redmond didn’t make that decision, Toshiba did. That’s the problem with the netbook market – the hardware is so goddamn cheap that the OS is suddenly a MASSIVE expense. If Microsoft didn’t offer something like Starter, the netbook guys would be chasing free OSes.

    This, by the way, is the market I’m pretty sure Google will go after with Chrome OS. Cheap/free lightweight netbook OS.

  51. 51.

    Martin

    But then I found out there are USB plug-in keypads.

    They’ve been around a long time. Even better are the bluetooth ones

    They also work as a regular calculator if you need.

  54. 54.

    madmommy

    @Martin:

    Interesting, but I’m leaning towards a corded type. It’s not that important to me to be completely wireless. Since I’m at my desk when I’m working, having the keypad wired isn’t that big a deal for me. As an aside, I got a Bluetooth thingy for my cellphone and I cannot stand it. It sounds like I am at the bottom of a well, it doesn’t fit comfortably, and I get this strange echo in my head when I use it-like talking with your fingers in your ears.

  55. 55.

    The Other Steve

    Apparently if I vote for Bitsy I’m supporting Glenn Beck. I’m afraid I can’t do that.

  56. 56.

    Fencedude

    @some guy:

    Doesn’t VLC and/or Media Player Classic + K-Lite Codec Pack do software decoding of DVDs?

    Yes, though I’d recommend the Combined Community Codec Pack, personally.

  57. 57.

    baldheadeddork

    As long as mclaren is doing his shtick, might as well pass this along:

    Apple Seeks Patent on Operating System Advertising

    Gene Quinn, patent attorney and founder of IPWatchdog, says Apple has file for a patent on “Advertisement in Operating System.” Sounds harmless at first but wait until you guys get a load of the wording on this one:

    The operating system is configured to present one or more of the advertisements to users of the computer device. In some implementations, the operating system can disable one or more functions during the presentation of the advertisements and then enable the function(s) in response to the advertisements ending. That is, the operating system can disable some aspect of its operation to prompt the operator to pay attention to the advertisement.

  58. 58.

    eco2geek

    This just in: Alfred, a top competitor in the Cutest Dog Competition, removed himself from the race when his dark past finally became public. He misrepresented his breed. He was not an ordinary Shih Tzu. He was actually a cross between a Bull Terrier and a Shih Tzu.

    Yes, Alfred was really a Bull Shih Tzu.

  59. 59.

    Sentient Puddle

    …and I’m wondering if I’ll need to break out the Vista discs again. After I thought I’d seen the last of 64-bit driver issues with Nvidia, apparently they can’t make a 7 driver worth a shit. Start up WoW, and it freezes on the loading screen.

    Wonder if any other games will play…

  62. 62.

    jnfr

    I got my new netbook this week, an Acer Aspire D250-1955 running XP, and it’s wonderful. Or at least it was once I, like Tim, deleted all the crap it came with and installed my own security software and preferred browsing tools.

    So far all my ordinary software has installed fine (though I’m still waiting on the CD drive so I can run Office and Paint Shop Pro and various games).

    Pretty quick, even though I only have one meg of memory so far. I just don’t feel the pull to Windows 7 at this point, though I may get convinced. But I like what I have and it works well.

  66. 66.

    Steeplejack

    @Laura W:

    You realize this will make you some kind of behind-the-scenes kingmaker or something?

    I am late to the thread, as usual, but I particularly don’t care tonight, because I am starting a three-day weekend. Yee-haw.

    –Steep +4.

  68. 68.

    J.W. Hamner

    I’ve said this already, but: Mac = Slate.

    Useless contrarianism… there’s nothing you can do on an Mac you couldn’t do better on Windows or Linux… but who can put a price on smug ignorance? Not just a bug, it’s a business model.

  69. 69.

    bago

    Holy crap control thing is awesome. It’s like I’ll never have to touch my computer again. I mean I haven’t had a dictation error all night. OK, and had an error there. However, editing can be kind of tricky. Sometimes commands like select will actually be transcribed instead of being parsed. However, when the whole thing works you do get a little tingle up your leg. Just like that. Now I can of one to ramble on the line but, I digress.

  70. 70.

    bago

    So the “can of one” in the previous post is obviously a dictation error. It was supposed to be kind of want to.

  71. 71.

    Roger Moore

    @bago:

    However, when the whole thing works you do get a little tingle up your leg see starbursts.

    Fixed that for you.

  72. 72.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    You’re so terribly wrong, but you’re kind of cute and make me laugh.

    I am used to superior beings telling me how wrong I am TOS. Grab a number and get in line with the rest of them, I’ll let you know when I am ready to give a shit.

  77. 77.

    MikeJ

    I also heard a rumour that he had a ring of NFL players that he caused to fight.

    4AM. Time to go buy some onions if I want soup for lunch today. 5lbs cooked down to 2 cups by noon. Mmmm.

  82. 82.

    Tattoosydney

    @Tattoosydney:

    Hello? Is there anyone here?

    I’ve just been reading the comments on the Cutest Dog Blog, and I am a little scared… I didn’t realise how many people were taking this SO seriously…

    It sounds disturbingly like Hillaryis44 over there…

  87. 87.

    valdivia

    Booman explaining where we are on the HCR bill. This was Klein’s point yesterday and I think people can read that and take a deep breath that things are in the right direction.

  89. 89.

    Demo Woman

    The last time we heard from our host his computer was meowing at him with piano music in the background. Considering that it is now after ten in the morning, since we be concerned?

  90. 90.

    Violet

    @Demo Woman:
    Was thinking the same thing. Maybe Tunch had found a way to hide inside the computer, just to make sure John was paying attention to him.

  93. 93.

    Demo Woman

    Tunch could have suffocated him.
    I know that WVU has a game today but they are playing a UCONN that might have problems after the death of one their starters.

  94. 94.

    WereBear

    Of course everyone loves their brand new Windows machines! They work right. They don’t stay that way, just by being used.

    Every waking moment these machines are sentient, the operating system is confusing itself and straightening itself out again. It’s bound to catch up with them.

    Even the Mac needs to have Applejack run a couple of times a year. Now the Amiga, that was rock solid. Patches? It don’t need no stinking patches.

  95. 95.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    @Demo Woman:

    No need to worry, it’s Windows 7. Once it gets done making breakfast and doing John’s dishes, then furminating Tunch and Lily, it will create an open thread the likes of which we have never seen and never will again.

    Patience.

  97. 97.

    Steeplejack

    Just voted for that little bitch Bitsy for the last time. Got her to 7,427. Now it’s up to fate (and you other voters!).

    It was supposed to be balmy here today, but somehow it’s managing to be windy and look gray and raw while the temp is in the high 60s. WTF?

  98. 98.

    jeffreyw

    Dear Mr Cole,

    On an earlier thread you said:

    So I went and bought a WD terabyte external HD, something I should have done years ago anyway with all the important stuff I have on this computer, and am now backing up all my porn my important work files.

    As an aspiring minion, I promptly ordered a similar (perhaps identical) WD terabyte network attached drive, and in anticipation of it’s delivery I did some research. This was a mistake. I now dread delivery.

    There are those who will castigate me for buying before researching so I think you owe it to me to ban these awful people for dissing you.

    Yr obedient & etc
    Jeffreyw

  99. 99.

    dan robinson

    I upgraded my dual boot Dell laptop last night. It came with Vista Home Premium, but I needed (thanks to MS limiting the ability of the ‘home’ version of the OS) XP Professional, Vista Ultimate or 7 Ultimate to run chip design tools. I run Ubuntu on it most of the time. I plan to set it up to run Seven as in a virtual machine.

    The upgrade to Seven was smooth. I didn’t turn off/uninstall the programs that the installer suggested, e.g., iTunes. It wiped out GRUB, the Linux bootloader, but I was prepared for that and reinstalled it with a Ubuntu 9.04 livecd.

    After the upgrade, Seven recognized MediaTomb running on another Linux box. That was surprising and a good start. But it wants to launch Windows Media Player to access it. I hate that program. I would rather use iTunes or Quicktime player.

  101. 101.

    R-Jud

    Bitsy @ 7462.

    I am working this weekend, thanks to a client with rocks for brains. If I had Windows 7, could it give me a massage while I write very dull copy? Or at least unwrap my cough drops?

  102. 102.

    dan robinson

    @59
    Redmond didn’t make that decision, Toshiba did. That’s the problem with the netbook market – the hardware is so goddamn cheap that the OS is suddenly a MASSIVE expense. If Microsoft didn’t offer something like Starter, the netbook guys would be chasing free OSes.

    This, by the way, is the market I’m pretty sure Google will go after with Chrome OS. Cheap/free lightweight netbook OS.

    Whaaaaa?

    Hardware is cheap? Only because it has been comoditized. The OS is a MASSIVE expense because MS charges a lot of money for it, not because of the technical challenges. I work on chips, and you put the wafer in the production line and need to do everything exactly right for 6 weeks before you know if the thing works. MS doesn’t do engineering. They do marketing.

    The winner will be ARM based hardware (1/4 the power draw of comparable Intel hardware) and Linux based software.

  104. 104.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    A recent Rufus posting on Faceborg:

    Most recent post by the Rufus “supporter”:

    “Over the past few weeks of this contest only about 10% of you have shown your loyalty and support to the Huckleberry during the vote for Rufus Contest. For that I thank you all and you will be rewarded for that loyalty. The other 90% have not responded to the call for help. Huckleberry is only asking you to take a couple of minutes to vote for Rufus. We spend hours playing this game so asking for a few minute to support me is not to much to ask. You’ve joined this club either because myself or the Hell hounds have Helped you or because of my nightly drawings. Something brought you here.

    Now the Huckleberry is asking for your help and not getting it. If each of you just took a couple of minutes and voted,Rufus would win this contest hands down easy. The contest ends Saturday and Rufus is behind by almost 300 votes. He can still win this contest with your support only. I’ve made up my mind that if he loses due to your lack of support for the Huckleberry this fan club page will be deleted.

    I will setup a new fan club page called Huckleberry’s VIP Group. This will be by personal invite only by me and this is where the Hellhounds will now live, my Nightly Drawings will take place, the great mass add will be setup and other great features of this page will now be housed. I have the names of all those that have been there for me and you will be invited to this new VIP Group. I rather have 10% loyal supportive fans than 90% of people that are just there for themselves.

    I have a 2 day grace period starting today and tomorrow. If you decide you are or want to be a true fan,friend,family member of the Huckleberry go out and vote for rufus and paste your vote here. If this club gets deleted you will get an invite from me to the VIP Group. The choice is yours. It’s not about the numbers to me but about the loyalty and support.

    Hope you all will answer the call to support me in this endeavor and help Rufus win this competition and save this page. If you don’t that’s your decision. Again I’m just asking for a few minutes of your time.

    Here is the link to vote for Rufus. Make sure you sign in for your vote to count: (link deleted)

  108. 108.

    The Other Steve

    @dan robinson:

    I would rather use iTunes or Quicktime player.

    There is something seriously wrong with someone who would prefer to use iTunes or Quicktime over software that actually works.

  110. 110.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Steeplejack:

    I think Cole should do this. The Balloon Juice VIP suite. Has a nice ring to it. Will you join me in the gentlemen’s bar for a snifter of brandy, sir?

    Steep, there already is a Balloon Juice VIP suite.

  112. 112.

    dan robinson

    @108
    There is something seriously wrong with someone who would prefer to use iTunes or Quicktime over software that actually works.

    Oh yeah, I really want to use a piece of software that actually works by scanning my hard drive to find media and then reports that back to Redmond.

    Media Player recognized my MediaTomb server, but wouldn’t play anything from it. Oh yeah, it really works. I use my PS3 as a client to play music and videos from my server. But Media Player is the one that works. What a putz.

  115. 115.

    Martin

    The winner will be ARM based hardware (1/4 the power draw of comparable Intel hardware) and Linux based software.

    Only if the goal is to bankrupt the industry. Netbooks are killing the industry by driving the prices down so low that nobody has profits to direct back into R&D. I know the cheap-ass devices are appealing, they are to me too, but it’s penny-wise, pound-foolish for the industry to engage in this game. Apple is now pulling in half the profits from the computer hardware sector due at least to the fact that these low-cost machines have killed what little profitability they previously had. Where do you think all the future R&D is going to come from?

    I mean, this is pretty appealing and all, but getting a desktop and 2 laptops for $1200 will move a lot of computers for HP, but they’re not making shit off the deal. HP used to invent stuff – now they just churn out a metric shitton of cheap-ass hardware.

    And ARM based hardware and Linux based software have been out for a decade. After the Newton proved the market, we’ve yet to see a realistic ARM/Linux device on the market. Apple not only built OS X, but ported it to ARM to make the ARM based iPhone possible. Linux is never going to show up to this game if it hasn’t after all this time.

  116. 116.

    Brachiator

    On the other hand Redmond made the weird decision to bundle a crippled version of Win7 (“starter”) that will not do ordinary things like play a DVD movie unless you pay for a $79 upgrade. The decision makes some sense since you cannot use DVDs at all without buying a separate external drive, but it still feels like a dick move.

    A great post, Tim F. I hope that somehow this message gets to PCand software companies, and to developers.

    During my daily train commute, I notice that the chief recreational uses of any device (iPod, netbook, laptop, iPhone) are music, games, and movies or TV shows. From a consumer standpoint, that a Win 7 notebook would not automatically include the necessary software to play a DVD is incredibly stupid. Doesn’t matter what the reason is.

    It would be like buying a full price refrigerator and having to go back and buy an extra option to be able to make ice.

    Tim’s uses are typical and reasonable. A netbook that easily accommodates this out of the box, for a reasonable price, and with a looooooong battery life, would conquer this niche market.

    I also notice some cell phone users playing games, watching some videos, etc. I’d rather have a plain-wrap cellphone and a notebook with its bigger screen and keyboard, than a massively featured cellphone for commuting and travel.

  117. 117.

    Martin

    A netbook that easily accommodates this out of the box, for a reasonable price, and with a looooooong battery life, would conquer this niche market.

    Conquer toward what goal?

    Seriously, people have completely lost the plot in the PC space. Let’s say Toshiba turns out that device at $300 and sells 10s of millions of them. What do they gain? At $300 they’re not making any money off of it. They’ve brought in almost no profits to do the R&D on the next generation of devices that people will demand can do even more things, just as consumers weren’t willing to pay the profits for the last generation of devices so that Toshiba could build that dream device that you are asking for.

    Early this week Apple reported both their record earnings and record computer sales – in a recession. Apple is having no problem selling $1100 laptops in a market when everyone else is selling $300 ones. All of the analysts insisted that Apple had to have a netbook to compete. Well, they didn’t. And if Apple had put a netbook out there, a lot of those $1100 sales would have turned into $300 ones. As one prominent person put it: “Imagine how much money Apple could have lost if only it had a netbook.”

    Sure, the Mac haters would have had one less thing to hate about Apple, and they couldn’t have quite as much force behind their ‘Macs are too expensive’ shouts, but who is actually doing all of the R&D out there? And it’s not all for Apple’s private use, either. Apple has brought a TON of open-source projects under their umbrella and put salaries onto those developers. Every credible smart phone on the market today uses a Webkit browser. Apple doesn’t get a penny from those, but Apple pays for Webkit development. Where’s Microsoft’s first-rate free mobile browser engine? Or Toshibas? Or Dells? Or HPs? Hell, even Google uses Apple’s engine. Those profits that Apple are earning are turning into new open-source compilers, browsers, and so on. Almost every foundational improvement to 10.6 has been open-sourced.

    So yeah, the $300 netbook might win the world, which will be a great award to put on the mantle right before you go out of business.

  118. 118.

    thomas Levenson

    Here’s a flame war-inducing bleg, if any one is still paying attn. to this.

    I need a computer for travelling a little less painful for my back than my MBP 15″ (noticeably over 6 lbs, w. power brick.)

    I’ve been thinking Macbook Air in some config or other, just to keep the synchronization/software issues to a minimum, but I also find the notion of a linux-running netbook to be pretty sweet, and somewhere between one fifth and one fourth the price. Even some of the slimlines running CULV chips look pretty good, at half the cost of a MBAir.

    And unlike the courageous here, I have no interest in being a second order beta tester for a new MS OS. Just seems to me to be asking for trouble to hang w. seven for another few months. Call me a luddite or something…

    So anyone w. any experience dumping XP off any of the netbooks and installing Ubuntu and open office? Likes, dislikes, etc.?

    (I did have a Linux-netbook combo in the original Acer Aspire One for a while, and edited a book on it, passing the file back and forth between Word 2008 for hte Mac and OO, so that part I’m cool with. Sold the Acer to my sister in law whose fingers were small enough to handle that diminuitive keyboard).

  119. 119.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    Seriously, people have completely lost the plot in the PC space. Let’s say Toshiba turns out that device at $300 and sells 10s of millions of them. What do they gain? At $300 they’re not making any money off of it. They’ve brought in almost no profits to do the R&D on the next generation of devices that people will demand can do even more things, just as consumers weren’t willing to pay the profits for the last generation of devices so that Toshiba could build that dream device that you are asking for.

    US auto companies claimed that they couldn’t make smaller fuel efficient cars that people wanted. US auto companies go out of business.

    I don’t demand that any type of computer do more and more things. I want a device that will do the things that I want well. If companies cannot accommodate this, I will not use their products.

    R&D is pointless if it does not deliver products that people want and can use easily. The computer industry, strangely, fights this more than others.

    Apples and oranges. I love my iPod and iTunes. I could never buy an Apple computer. They don’t make any of the business software that I and my customers use. It would be insane for me to pay more money to buy a Mac just so that I could run Windows emulation. I got no beef with people who love Macs. It’s just an alternate universe to me.

    So yeah, the $300 netbook might win the world, which will be a great award to put on the mantle right before you go out of business.

    Totally false issue. There is a wide market for Pcs. What I want from a desktop is not the same thing that I want from a notebook. Gamers are willing to pay a premium for performance.

    A netbook that my niece and nephew could use, and drop, and spill crap on, at a reasonable price, would be worth its weight in gold. On the other hand, supertiny keyboards make many notebooks, laptops, and even desktops difficult for seniors to use. This last issue is why a basic cell phone with huge keys is a success with the senior crowd.

    There are things that people want to do. Computers (or devices) can let people get things done. And yes, there is a recession on. This creates opportunity.

    And by the way. The cost of iPod components are cheap compared to the retail price of the product. And Apple has consistently increased the capacity of iPods and iPhones while moderately lowering the price. They win because they deliver a desirable product that is easy to understand and to use at a reasonable price. With plenty of room left for profits and R&D. They even found that for the sake of convenience, that people will pay for stuff that they could otherwise get for free (downloads of broadcast TV shows).

    There is an obvious lesson here.

  120. 120.

    Martin

    Apples and oranges. I love my iPod and iTunes. I could never buy an Apple computer. They don’t make any of the business software that I and my customers use. It would be insane for me to pay more money to buy a Mac just so that I could run Windows emulation. I got no beef with people who love Macs. It’s just an alternate universe to me.

    And I don’t argue that you should – or that any consumer shouldn’t do what isn’t in their own best interest. I argue that the race to the bottom that the rest of the PC industry is engaged in is killing them – that they are only listening to the low-cost feature request from consumers and ignoring most of the others.

    . The cost of iPod components are cheap compared to the retail price of the product. And Apple has consistently increased the capacity of iPods and iPhones while moderately lowering the price. They win because they deliver a desirable product that is easy to understand and to use at a reasonable price. With plenty of room left for profits and R&D. They even found that for the sake of convenience, that people will pay for stuff that they could otherwise get for free (downloads of broadcast TV shows).
    There is an obvious lesson here.

    Also keep in mind that Apple is covering Microsofts job too. The price of Windows components are $0 – it’s just a download. But Microsoft is getting squeezed in this market as well because the netbook producers aren’t willing to pre-install decent copies of Windows on the hardware because it would kill them on the price – which, let’s face it, is the primary point of the devices.

    And you say “I don’t demand that any type of computer do more and more things” but that was the thesis of your opening point – that these devices do more than the preceding generation or two could do. You want DVD video in a palmtop? That’s more. Some day it’ll be Blue-Ray, or 3G or 4G, or GPS. It’ll always be more. Even the business software you and your customers use will demand more. I wonder where that ‘more’ will come from?

    I’m not trying to advocate for Apple, just pointing out that the industry is in trouble. Average sale prices for Windows PCs was $515 this past summer and ASPs are falling faster than sales are growing, so PC companies are basically starving to death in spite of growing sales, and consumers are demanding that they do it faster. That doesn’t happen in the auto market.

    And yeah, gamers are willing to pay more, but here’s a pretty scary stat. – when you add Apple’s hardware to the PC ASP numbers above, it climbs to $701. Just adding in Apple hardware (just shy of 10% of the market) brings the average price up $186. Truth is, the gamers just don’t add enough profitability to the market – mainly because they aren’t buying machines from the people that you are buying netbooks from. They mostly roll their own, so the PC makers are still starved even with gamers considered. Apple represents over 90% of the total >$1000 PC market. So, no, there really isn’t a wide market for PCs after all. The PC market is almost exclusively bargain-basement hardware now.

  121. 121.

    Wilson Heath

    Y’all could cut a break to your netbook-using readership and alter the BJ page format to allow more than a 3.5″ column of text for content.

    Just saying.

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    And I don’t argue that you should – or that any consumer shouldn’t do what isn’t in their own best interest. I argue that the race to the bottom that the rest of the PC industry is engaged in is killing them – that they are only listening to the low-cost feature request from consumers and ignoring most of the others.

    Then the issue has nothing to do with the needs of the netbook market, but what areas the PC industry chooses to emphasize.

    And the bottom line is that the issues that the PC industry faces is much like that faced by the auto industry, the newspaper industry or even (gasp) the health insurance industry.

    I want the product that I want. If the PC industry can’t deliver, then it should go out of business and move aside in favor of someone who can deliver.

    And the reality is that netbooks are also competing with devices like the iPod Touch and with increasingly sophisticated (and price-subsidized) cellphones. And over in a far corner we have the e-book reader wars, with Amazon’s Kindle, Sony’s whatever and promised or phantom products from Barnes and Noble and Apple lurking in the wings.

    There is no shortage of innovation or competitiveness in all these products.

    And you say “I don’t demand that any type of computer do more and more things” but that was the thesis of your opening point – that these devices do more than the preceding generation or two could do.

    That wasn’t really my thesis at all. I don’t care about the history of these devices. Right now, today, I see commuters who might want to watch a movie or a TV show on a hour plus commute from San Bernardino to LA Union Station, and still have enough battery power in the device to last through part of the work day. And because of the recession and general economic uncertainty, they don’t want to spend an arm and a leg to do so. And they don’t want to have to pay extra for additional software to let them do what is now typical.

    If the PC industry can’t grasp this concept, then they are as blind as the entertainment executives who fought Apple on iTunes.

    Even the business software you and your customers use will demand more. I wonder where that ‘more’ will come from?

    You don’t know anything about my business or my customers, some of whom still whine that they can’t go back to the DOS versions of our software. I am often surprised to find that our customers don’t use stuff that I might consider to be as basic and essential as a pencil. But I don’t make the mistake of trying to insist that they should do what I might like or expect, and try to find out why they have their operations the way that they do and what we need to do to accommodate them.

    Sometimes people want more. Sometimes they want something new. Sometimes they resist stuff that will require that they spend additional time (and money) training people to do the same old crap in a new way, simply because of cosmetic changes to software or the quirks of a new operating system.

    But there is an old song that says, “Find out what they like, and how they like it, and give it to them just that way.” The PC industry should be singing this every day. Period. Or go out of business.

  123. 123.

    Martin

    Then the issue has nothing to do with the needs of the netbook market, but what areas the PC industry chooses to emphasize.
    And the bottom line is that the issues that the PC industry faces is much like that faced by the auto industry, the newspaper industry or even (gasp) the health insurance industry.
    I want the product that I want. If the PC industry can’t deliver, then it should go out of business and move aside in favor of someone who can deliver.

    I think the needs of the netbook market and the industry emphasis are inextricably linked right now.

    Consumers collectively are adamantly opposed to paying to improve their future products. The nickel and dimeing of the PC market is killing it and preventing the very devices people are asking for from being developed. You want light, long battery, video capable? Sure, that’s possible now, but it’s going to cost more money than anyone is willing to pay and that’s why it doesn’t exist. Hell, people are complaining about $300 devices not including $79 software, but they’d be complaining if the device cost $379. It’s madness.

    You want this to be delivered, but you might as well ask the industry to give you a pony too. Consumers can’t demand that $500 computers be handed to them for $300 and then bitch about the lack of features, difficulty of upgrades, and so on.

    Nobody is realistically asking for hybrid vehicles that are cheaper than conventional ones, or high-horsepower cars that are more fuel efficient than last years low-horsepower ones. Consumers that want better features pay more for those cars which fuels R&D for the next generation of better cars. In the PC space, they want better features and pay less. A LOT less – less in fact than what commoditization brings in lower component costs.

  124. 124.

    dan robinson

    @115

    And ARM based hardware and Linux based software have been out for a decade. After the Newton proved the market, we’ve yet to see a realistic ARM/Linux device on the market. Apple not only built OS X, but ported it to ARM to make the ARM based iPhone possible. Linux is never going to show up to this game if it hasn’t after all this time.

    ARM has been around for two decades. Look at the new multicore processors, e.g., Cortex A5. .12 mw/MHz. 48 mw at 400 MHz.

    Ever heard of Android? There are around 50 Android devices coming out in the next 3 months.

    These guys who think they know shit and they don’t know shit.

  125. 125.

    Jon H

    @baldheadeddork: That is, the operating system can disable some aspect of its operation to prompt the operator to pay attention to the advertisement.

    This is probably iPhone/iPod Touch-related, or perhaps AppleTV. They all run versions of Mac OS X, as opposed to a more basic firmware OS.

    At least, the iPhone, iPod Touch, and Apple TV make a *lot* more sense for mandatory ad-supported business models than Apple’s laptops and desktops. Annoying, though, unless the ads buy you enough benefit.

  126. 126.

    Jon H

    @dan robinson: “And ARM based hardware and Linux based software have been out for a decade. After the Newton proved the market, we’ve yet to see a realistic ARM/Linux device on the market.”

    I believe the kindle runs on ARM and linux.

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