I’ll give you a question to discuss: does Obama’s waffling on the exact nature of the public option (which I agree is puzzling) make him look like Jimmy Carter, Richard, Nixon, Adolf Hitler, or all of the above?
Update. Mao, Stalin, Neville Chamberlain, Don Draper, and Felix the Cat are also acceptable choices here.
Jebediah
Ed Grimley.
danimal
Machievelli.
wvng
Add Stalin and Mao to the list and you’ll be close. And a Kenyan witchdoctor/massmurderer too.
TenguPhule
Spock.
robertdsc
Grady Little, circa 2003.
Lev
It makes him look like Neville Chamberlain. APPEASEMENT! Don’t give healthcare to the moderates! The public option is Obama’s Munich!
The whole thing is admittedly puzzling. I was kind of annoyed with the administration for a while until I realized a simple fact–Harry Reid is supposed to deliver a stronger public option. That’s why the White House is figuring they’ll have to be more cautious. Because it’s Harry Reid. When you think about it that way, it makes sense.
BDeevDad
Neville Chamberlain
BDeevDad
Neville Chamberlain
BDeevDad
Neville Chamberlain
J.W. Hamner
I don’t think it’s puzzling… I just don’t think Obama trusts Harry Reid to be competent at counting votes. Can you blame him? The WH has always wanted a bill more than a strong public option, so why is it surprising when they get nervous about Reid hewing to the path with the least margin of error. I mean… like I said, this is Harry Reid we’re talking about.
wvng
Given that repugs have TROUBLE RECOGNIZING SATIRE…., how many minutes before they pick up your post as serious and start trumpeting it?
Ella in NM
Mona Lisa.
BDeevDad
Sorry, tremor acting up today. Typing sucks.
J.W. Hamner
Or basically what Lev @6 said.
chuck
Satan.
drillfork
Give me E) Corporate Whore…
K. Grant
Why is Obama waffling? Because the moment he comes down on a precise, exact policy proposal is the moment any number of foolish Democrats will publicly blow a gasket, sulk, pout, and then refuse to vote for ‘any’ health care reform bill. Either Feingold is going to go off the rails and stand his ground that unless this bill actually is single-payer, it is all over. Or Nelson will scream about socialism, and the jig is up. Both will, in sadness of course, vote with the Republicans to block the vote and this whole exercise swirls down the crapper. This is worse than herding cats.
Here is my analogy – it is like playing the card game Mao, except that the rules continue to change no matter what happens, and the dealer can at any time turn into a sulky tween who continues to threaten to take his cards and go home.
Oh, no. My sympathy rests completely with Obama. What a wretched job to have to get these primping prima donnas to do anything.
Kevin K.
Little Bitsy. I think his waffling is adorable.
Napoleon
The Cowardly Lion.
Brick Oven Bill
Obama does not look like Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, or Adolf Hitler, or a combination of them.
Obama looks like a combination of Milli Vanilli and Urkel.
Obama is Milli VanUrkel.
To think that Obama really cares about the well-being of the American people is projection. If Obama was the Robin Hood people like to project onto his image, he would send a portion of his book advance, or his salary, to his blood-brother, who still lives in a hut. He would also send some help to his illegal alien aunt.
Obama thus is not Charitable.
Obama cares about himself and consolidating power, and control. I believe that Carter, Nixon, and Hitler all started out with good intentions. This is one difference between the four men.
ellaesther
@Kevin K.: You win!
wvng
chuck, could he be: The Church Lady?
Bostondreams
Soooo.. BoB is saying that Obama is worse than Hitler. Yup, definitely flying over those sharks and approaching the sharks with freaking lasers on their heads.
What a fool.
RedKitten
Mmm…waffles.
And seeing as you have a comma between Richard and Nixon, are you referring to a separate Richard? Because I don’t think that Obama looks like Little Richard at all.
Lisa
LOL @ Mona Lisa.
arguingwithsignposts
@Brick Oven Bill: again with the racism.
head/desk.
Go away BoB.
me
Xenu
Bill Kristol is going in the volcano.
Brick Oven Bill
LauraW, I would like to reveal to you a secret about what I did last night in the privacy of my room. Last night, I voted for ‘That Dog’. The vote number was 2417. This is not because you gave me lip. I do not respond to threats, or intimidation.
This is because, although I place myself not anywhere near the top of the Natural Aristocracy of Man, I seek to improve myself within it. One way to develop Virtue is to practice Charity. Charity is different than government re-distribution, which is about control and power.
Charity is Glenn Beck’s Value #6. Glenn used to be the name of ‘That Dog’.
It is too bad that the President of the United States’ blood brother still lives in a hut. If Barack were to give him perhaps one percent of the book advance check he put in the bank immediately before being seated as President, then we could maybe get him a generator, asphalt shingles for the roof of the hut, and an Internet connection. $500,000 isn’t $3 mil (Axlerod), or $16 mil (Rahm), but 1% of it would easily refurbish a hut.
Then there is the salary.
Upon refurbishment of the hut, maybe we could get Odongo Obama to vote for ‘Little Bitsy’ too. Remember this though, Charity allows judgment to be exercised. ‘Glenn’ is a very worthy name.
Now here is the lesson. I care about your damn dog, even though you as a person are ideologically confused at times. However, beauty can easily coexist with periodic bouts of ideological confusion. Odongo still lives in a hut smaller than the bathroom on Air Force One. He eats crappy foods. He does not eat Kobe beef flown in from Japan.
Meditate on this.
Napoleon
At this point I actually don’t find it puzzling. He is just not a leader. Anybody who is down to the short strokes on an important part of what would be any President’s signature issue and finds themselves just a couple of votes short and doesn’t go balls out just does not deserve to be in the office.
Oh, and God help him if the public option does not make it into the bill. He is going to have a huge chunk of the base turn on him who will figure the next time he needs their calls, knocking on doors or money that he can go f— himself. It is one thing to get shot charging the machine gun nest, and quite another being shoot in the back running from the fight.
Keith G
@Brick Oven Bill:
You can’t help but work in that racist angle, eh?
ruemara
I haven’t seen the waffling in Obama. I see a congress that can’t make fricking decision and stick with it so he has something to work with and I see an electorate as well armed with information vs propaganda as sporks vs nukes. Obama has been fairly consistent about supporting the public option but not being opposed to something with the same results. I see that as 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Others see that as giant red bull flag of bepuzzlement.
LoveMonkey
No.
Congress is Kabuki. Most of what goes on around a controversial bill is theatrical, and maneuvering.
I’ve joined the Hate Harry Reid bandwagon, but the fact that Reid is a weak leader doesn’t change the nature of Congress. It’s about deals, maneuvers, posturing, and a lot of lying. Obama is doing his job well AFAIC. What is going on behind the curtains, who knows? The information media will never find out enough to enlighten us.
I don’t find Obama’s track here to be puzzling at all. I think he is playing rope-a-dope with a bunch of self interested crapheads, and I think he will come out ahead at the end of the day.
And, whatever your opinion is on healthcare, this would be a good time to make it known to your representatives.
cleek
Neville Longbottom
scav
Or, is he just being quiet and the world is waffling around him?
geg6
Hamlet
Violet
Maybe he’s a waffle dog?
Bitsy update – The Oprah show is off. From the dog blog:
Just in, from Harpo –
“I regret to announce that there has been a format change for Wednesdays live show and we will not be able to feature The Cutest Dog competition as part of the program.
Because it is a live show, content frequently changes. And sadly, we were afraid that we just wouldn’t be able to give all the finalists and semi finalists the appropriate time and space we would need for a show of this nature.
Thanks to all of you for submitting such great photos and videos. I am keeping everything on file, incase we are able to feature or profile the semi-finalists at a later date.
Best wishes to all of you and I wish all of you the best luck with the competition. “
…………….
No idea what this means for when the contest will end. Wait and see, I guess. Keep voting if you’re so inclined.
cleek
sadly, i seriously doubt that.
your choice in the next election will be between the people who failed to get a public option and the people worked to prevent a public option.
ellaesther
@RedKitten: Indeed, suggesting it would probably be racist.
Laura W
Obama waffles like Oprah.
DougJ
He is going to have a huge chunk of the base turn on him
I doubt that.
gwangung
Meh.
People are mistaking what is done in public with what is actually done. Anybody who says Obama is a leader or Obama is waffling or Obama isn’t doing anything are pretty much pulling it out of their ass, because we have no idea about a) what is happening out of the public glare and b) what is the strategy the Obama team is following.
And for folks who disagree with that…consider this: you’re working with information gleaned from the mainstream mass media.
Yup. Remember that. GIGO.
pcbedamned
Iggy (aka Michael Ignatieff)
jl
Stuart Smalley.
People like Franken, Grayson, Pelosi and Sanders are acting like the leaders Obama said he would be.
Brick Oven Bill
Milli VanUrkel is not based in race, Keith G, at least not directly. Milli Vanilli voiced sounds that other people wrote for him (teleprompter).
Urkel was a dork that would ride around on a bicycle with this rear bumper.
Behold Milli VanUrkel.
Nixon would not ride that bike.
Hitler would not ride that bike.
Carter might ride that bike, but his thoughts were his own. He was confused, but intelligent.
Thus, regardless of race, neither Nixon, Hitler, nor Carter could be labeled Milli VanUrkel.
Stooleo
Black Dynamite
Laura W
@Brick Oven Bill:
I can go no further, Bill. I just had a whey protein shake with Greentastic.
Will check back when my stomach settles. The Bitsy ulcer is painful.
slag
@geg6: Nah. Too banal to be Hamlet.
I’m going to say he looks like both Gentlemen of Verona.
Keith G
@ Dougj: Sauage is being made. The process bites and I am endevoring not to get caught up in the “tic-toc”. Waffles, pancakes…whatever…..I’ll worry about it when the cooking is done.
Violet
@gwangung:
Agreed. And leaking things to the media is part of everyone’s strategy. Who knows what’s really happening.
I think it’s not necessarily a bad thing that the uncertainty means the folks on all sides feel they need to let their reps know what they think and want to happen. If everyone felt confident the public option was going to happen, they’d just sit back all fat and happy and no one would know what sort of support for it was out there. But the uncertainty means people are much more actively engaged and informed. Not that the general public is probably paying all that much attention, but they’re probably paying more intention than they would otherwise.
licensed to kill time
Muhammad Ali – floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee. Also, rope-a-dope, too, and suchlike.
FormerSwingVoter
Am I the only one who finds BoB’s random capitalization of traits as Proper Nouns strange? With all the talk about Virtue and Charity, I feel like I’m reading dialogue from some wingnut version of Ultima IV.
anonevent
I don’t know, I’m a little impressed at the small spine Reid has been having to grow in the last couple of days because the Administration will not give him cover, but won’t let him change the subject. Every time Reid comes out and says that he cannot get this or that, the White House says a public option is the best way to control costs.
Laura W
@Brick Oven Bill:
I accept your charitable apology, Bill.
freelancer
Kanye West.
LD50
Why, all of them! We just cycle thru the different villains to make our claims sound more fresh.
Bill White
Denzel Washington
Keith G
@Brick Oven Bill: Yeah, whatever, dude.
btw: What hapened to “edit”? T’was here last week. I so need that 2nd crack at my typing.
PaulW
Eddie Deezen
trollhattan
Heh, indoozle, bOb brandishes the fancypants term “projection” in a thread wherein he yet again cites teh Blubbery One as some sort of authority. Irony is not only dead, it’s been fed into the incinerator.
Roger Moore
I think he looks like Bill Clinton. He’s triangulating.
Brian Griffin
@anonevent: true.
the WH is basically forcing Reid to get out there and fight a little. They make their statement on the public option, then step back and expect him and others to argue for it. People are finally doing just that.
It’s basic community organizing. Empower good actors in the community, but insist and expect that they do the work. This builds a much stronger team than if the organizer or even one strong leader does all of the work.
slag
@anonevent:
Agreed. Reid is looking like he finally understands that the best way to improve his political fortunes is to do good work. But don’t worry…I’m sure it will pass.
ricky
I hope your commenters realize that any answer they give puts them on a slippery slope to looking like George Will.
arguingwithsignposts
@gwangung:
I’m too lazy to look up the link, but I read somewhere last week that the administration has been having constant behind-the-scenes meetings with congresscritters about HCR. They have a staff person whose sole responsibility is meeting with them, and has held over 100 meetings in recent months.
I don’t remember anything that has been this drawn-out and negotiated in public since the last bout of HCR attempt in 1993. Am I wrong in that memory?
shoutingattherain
Jimmy Dean
licensed to kill time
@FormerSwingVoter:
He thinks it makes him sound all Founding Fatherish and Federalist Papery.
Colette
Krazy Kat.
Senate = Ignatz.
Pelosi = Offisa Pup.
New Yorker
You forgot Castro, Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, Daniel Ortega, and all the other scary, brown-skinned leftist Latin American leaders who are a threat to this country (I mean, can you imagine how dangerous a combined Nicaraguan-Bolivian strike force would be? I can see them invading Florida now!)
smiley
@gwangung:
@Violet:
That is exactly right. I seriously doubt that the frat boys in the west wing are sitting around watching SportsCenter.
valdivia
@J.W. Hamner:
this . this. this.
Meg
Gonna go with Felix the Cat.
ricky
@New Yorker:
How come everyone ignores Ecuador? Seriously!
Even Paraguay is at least hiding something or someone.
Brick Oven Bill
‘New Yorker’ above displays true racism. This is the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Judging a man by his Character is not racism.
Da Bomb
@J.W. Hamner: I am with you on this one. There have been other blogs who have pointed out the exact same thing.
Napoleon
@cleek:
I didn’t say they would not vote against him, but they will not enthusiastically take the extra steps to help him like last year, and to some extent at the margins maybe just fail to vote.
I also didn’t say it would be tied to an election. They have been having people have house parties, phone bank, and knock on doors, etc. to help push support for this bill. If they do it again do you think someone who was for single payer but was willing to settle for a public option (and I bet that describes a good portion of his supporters) only to see him fail to really stand for it at the last second is really going to be going all out next time?
Don’t you think that will hurt him with the people who are not true believers but are persuadable, but will need someone willing to persuade, and without those people willing to do it you loose part of the ability to do it.
johnny
He’s just like Dick Whitman!
valdivia
I am glad to see Reid growing a spine but why would I trust Reid to get this done when he is rarely able to get a good whip count? Pelosi is another kettle of fish.
If anyone is puzzled about what is going on read Booman this weekend he had two excellent posts on this.
jl
@ricky: looking like George Will?
I think I have a bow tie someplace.
Obama and the WH are acting as if votes are an act of God, and that mere mortals can have no effect on them.
We have seen what greedy vicious and dishonest little snot-nosed cowards many of the Congresscritters are. The executive branch needs to grab their whatevers and tell them get in line. They should be trumpeting the broad and strong support a real public option has among the public and how it makes reform stronger.
Da Bomb
@ruemara: @LoveMonkey: I agree with you both.
Cain
@FormerSwingVoter:
Obviously, he played the Ultima series a little too much. At least he clicked for the dog. Although there isn’t much charity clicking ona button called “Vote”. I mean you’re not exactly giving anything away.
cain
Jean
Little Bitsy is behind by 1164!
valdivia
and on cue here is this, you really think Reid has this all sewn up? If this fails because he did not listen to the WH strategy (get the bill voted on and make it have a public option after they get it in reconciliation in committee) will people actually hail him as the responsible one for the clusterfuck?
Da Bomb
@valdivia: Yes, I jsut read both posts. Booman has actaully been involved in a telephone meeting about this subject with the President way back in July, I believe. He and Ezra Klein were. Hence, why you don’t see the sniffing glue behavior emitting from them.
Also Bob Cesca has been on the money as well.
jl
I took a tour of the Ecuador’s naval training sailing ship a few years ago during the local fleet week. ‘Cause it looked like one of the coolest and most swauved out. Old school stuff all over it: polished wood, brass, fancy old-fashioned naval thinga-ma-bobs all over.
The cadets were pretty too, and would have been an attraction in themselves if I leaned that way. I was hoping for some hot Ecuadorean babes among the cadets but I guess they are too old fashioned for that.
I didn’t forget Ecuador.
MBunge
“At this point I actually don’t find it puzzling. He is just not a leader. Anybody who is down to the short strokes on an important part of what would be any President’s signature issue and finds themselves just a couple of votes short and doesn’t go balls out just does not deserve to be in the office.”
Yes, because if Obama got health care reform passed there would never, ever be anything else of consquence to happen during his time in office.
What’s hilarious about all this bitching is that Obama’s leadership, which sucks and is utter crap, has gotten the country closer to health care reform than even the Clintons did and it’s a more liberal health care reform than the most wild-eyed lefty even imagined a few years ago. Yet all “Whiny Blogger X” and “Even Whinier Blog Commenter Y” care about is that he’s not doing exactly what they think he should be doing.
Mike
Cain
@Jean:
We need someone to put this on the front page. We are running more and more behind.
cain
danimal
When health care passes, with a public option and without more than 1-3 GOP votes and with rose petals thrown in the air at the signing ceremony, please remember that Obama had a plan, stuck to the plan, and won with the plan.
You’d think after the election that folks would stop underestimating the guy’s ability, but I guess that works in his favor, too.
Martin
It’s hard to mount a screaming opposition to a strategy that nobody understands.
Given that the GOP is doing nothing to help create legislation and everything to serve as knee-jerk opposition to it, I’d say that keeping cards close and regularly bluffing is probably a good tactic. Unfortunately, defusing the GOP is far more important than informing the citizenry.
dfd
He is obviously Dr. Clayton Forrester.
Origuy
Richard III, of course. Now is the winter of our discontent.
tc125231
I think it makes him look a bit like Bill Clinton –a talented president, but not perfect.
Oh wait –I forgot the “Bill Clinton is the Anti-Christ” meme.
Silly me.
Da Bomb
@MBunge: Party like it’s 2008, and the participants are McCain/Moose Barbie. Remember how that strategy of telling Obama what to do worked out so well?
Laura W
@Cain: Y’all, don’t panic!
I think what I posted last night is still True (cap for BOB).
With Oprah waffling out like Obama, there are still a bunch of other options and possibilities. Judges are picking four. Bitsy is a strong contender for one of those slots from everything I’ve seen and believe to be the case in terms of her backstory and community support.
John’s in the communication loop and is aware of the situation. He’ll surely post when he has time. There is really nothing to do now but keep voting, but remember that the vote totals are not the determining factor in who winds up top four. Dog only knows what is at this point, but Bitsy’s got everything going for her. Especially Juicers.
Punchy
The consensus sense on the census is nonsense.
cminus
Adolf Milhous Carter, of course.
slag
@Brick Oven Bill: Read the books. Or STFU.
Face
Hahahahahaha! If by “1-3”, you mean absolutely, positively zilch, well….then…you’re dead on.
jl
I don’t get the strategizing in Booman. You need 60 votes to end debate now, and you need 60 votes later.
WH should be unleashing all tools to get Senators on board.
Lincoln should be told that if she loves her insurance money so much, that is all she will have from here on out for anything, including re-election.
GregB
Idi Amin and Stuart Smalley.
-G
anonevent
@jl: I think you’re wrong about the Administration having to take charge. There would not be nearly as many people calling their Congresscritters if Obama had stood up and said “I will only sign a bill that has a strong public option,” nor would he have gotten nearly the number of people on board. We now have a progressive coalition in the House that would not have formed had Obama just taken charge. And I am also seeing some in the House are pushing that these health care changes should start taking affect in 2010 instead of 2013.
My interpretation of some of the way the Administration is working is this (not implying that this is what Obama is thinking): If he takes over this, then he has to take over every task that needs to be done, because the Democrats have been beaten down and allowed themselves to be cowed; if he lets this bill grow from Congress, then we’ll finally have a body that can make changes irregardless of how strong the next Democratic president is, or especially if the next president is a Republican. Could he be playing long ball with HCR? I think so; but it’s also been my experience that thinking long term works in the short term if you do it properly.
I don’t think Obama really needs to get more specific than “I believe a strong public option is the best way to control costs.”
Laura W
@Laura W: I take back “there is really nothing left to do.”
Judges have asked for comments on the blog over there as to why you think Bitsy should be declared the victor. If you can manage to go post a strong comment of support without getting sucked into the miasma, that might help. Most of the posters are the usual dog bloggers who chit chat about, um… personal stuff?… all day. Some fresh, articulate, erudite, passionate Juice in that thread would surely catch attention!
I hope Fuckhead does not think this means him.
Ash Can
According to Greg Sargent (and h/t GOS), we’re going to find out at 3:15 ET just what exactly is in the now one-and-only Senate bill. And, assuming this is the version sent to Barack Obama to sign, we’ll be finding out soon just what exactly Obama is willing to sign off on in terms of health care reform.
Until then, I’m withholding judgment, because all the speculation is just speculation.
Just Some Fuckhead
OT, can anyone point me to the history of military retirees getting free health care for life? Want to brush up on my knowledge of this area since the military retirees in my life are wailing that the new HCR scales back their benefits.
danimal
@Face: Zilch is fine by me, but I don’t think Nelson or Lieberman can be trusted so Obama may need to make some deals. If those two semi-Dems vote for cloture, no GOP votes will be needed and none will be forthcoming. As others have noted in this thread, there’s a lot of sausage-making going on behind closed doors.
New Yorker
Are you really this dense, or do you have no capacity for understanding sarcasm?
I’m not the one frightened of Hugo Chavez. He’s just a blustering buffoon. Only neoconservatives (i.e. people with no clue how the world works) view him as a threat.
MobiusKlein
Jimmy Nixon.
A waffling authoritarian. He has an enemies list, but doesn’t know what to do with it.
Martin
BOB is giving his liberty away by subjecting himself to the slow march of dog fan fascism. Today it’s Vote for Bitsy, tomorrow non-voters will be sent to Gramma Obama’s farm in the country to ‘frolic’ with the ducks and horses.
Napoleon
While I would largely agree with that is misses a huge part of why what happens in public in effect is “actually what is getting done”. Every time someone refuse to draw a line in the sand they are signaling non-verbally that they are unwilling to fight for whatever it is. If Obama came out and said the opt out needed to be in the bill, whoever the holdouts are now know that if they continue to hold out that Obama will not back down (they will presume) because he has, in effect, constructed his own corner he has backed himself to. That means that if that person continues to hold out they all but have completely guaranteed that the full fury of the party will be directed at them, and they will know that is what will happen.
I saw a great discussion of this some time ago I wish I could cut and paste here, but I am not even sure where I saw it (though it may have been a primatoligist Frans De Waal, believe it or not).
At this point without singling that he is willing to push for the public option opt out he has all but effectively sanctioned whoever the holdouts are to sink the opt out plan with no worry of consequences.
Ash Can
PS: OK, OK, it still has to be passed by the Senate, and God only knows what will happen over the course of that process. But I still consider this 1) a significant development that 2) will end some of this interminable Monday-morning quarterbacking.
Just Some Fuckhead
I would merely point out that real cuteness goes a lot deeper than breeding. And I’d prolly curse a little bit and say something incredibly inappropriate – but wildy funny – about my wildly funny, yet incredibly inappropriate, penis.
So yeah, ya’ll better take it from here.
Just Some Fuckhead
OOPS, my comment at 108 went into moderation. :)
Elie
jl @ 76
“The executive branch needs to grab their whatevers and tell them get in line.”
Great Idea! Unfortunately, Obama is not their boss to be able to just “tell them” to get into line.
sigh
I keep hoping but still see way to much evidence on this site and many others that people do not really understand United States civics.
Until most do, there will be an expectation that huge systemic change and getting things “done” is just a matter of will and coercing your opposition to your view.
It.Does.Not.Work.Like.That.
But don’t take my word for it. There has been a lot written on how US government works…please read up on it.
Laura W
@Just Some Fuckhead: Should I accept your apology in advance?
Brick Oven Bill
I have read the Columbia Paper slag. There are noun-verb mis-matches in a published work. This is enough for me. Obama the man cannot write. So I will neither spend more time reading the book with his name on it, nor listen to Milli Vanilli.
I already know that he would not be my friend, based on my race and decision to go into engineering, rather than be a Marxist professor, or a structural feminist.
Whoever wrote that book was not that knowledgeable, as there is no such thing as a structural feminist. I believe they meant ‘post-structural feminist’. So being denied friendship by this group is not a big deal to me.
Milli VanUrkel.
ksmiami
BOB – please stop polluting our threads with your bigoted and completely ridiculous drivel. Just. Stop. Now.
p.s.: Hasn’t anyone adjusted your meds man?
valdivia
@danimal:
no it will be all Reid he is the hero. /snark
DaBomb–glue sniffing is the best description
mk3872
Doug – Comments like “waffling” does not to assist in our country’s attempts at dialog and debate on issues.
Obama has NEVER said that he does not support a public option. NEVER.
You are all spending WAY too much time over-parsing language and nuance.
Don’t you enjoy having a president that takes time, precision and intellect to solve problems and make decisions as opposed to the rigidity and conformance to an orthodox of minds like George W & Clarence Thomas?
You may all wish for Obama to be a liberal George W.
But I much prefer someone who can change course and take action as is most appropriate, not affraid to upset the orthodoxy.
Brick Oven Bill
You tell me to shut up, and then ask a question. You are perhaps the confused one ksmiami. Some mind-altering drugs can do this. This is why my use of mind-altering drugs is limited to coffee, alcohol, and an occasional cigarette. The dosage has been pretty constant.
But thank you for your concern. Perhaps you would be willing to be my friend.
Da Bomb
@Ash Can: No it won’t end the quarterbacking. This will go on for th next 3 years.
Someone will find another anonymous source to hang their hat on, and the liberal blogoshpere will start clutching their pearls again. Wash, rinse, repeat.
slag
@Brick Oven Bill: Read the books. Or STFU.
Brick Oven Bill
Hey slag:
O-Ba-Ma
O-Ba-Ma
O-Ba-Ma
SGEW
I know that our blog hosts won’t permanently ban B.O.B. for his self-admitted racism, sexism, or homophobia (or his remarkably creepy sexual harassment), but can we at least give him another time-out for being such a weird shithead?
Brick Oven Bill
Modern Liberalism (noun): The attempt to establish Artificial Law (control by Wealth and Birth) and suppress the free exchange of ideas.
See SGEW.
Shell
Ortho Sackville-Baggins
gbear
Droopy Dog. I hope.
For you youngsters, Droopy is a cartoon character, not a rap artist. Droopy was incredibly non-assertive, but he always got his way in the end…sometimes in spectacular fashion.
Shell
Exactly! If someone, if you go by the tea-bagger’s signs, can be both a fascist and a socialist commie at the same time, why not?
slag
@Brick Oven Bill: You’re the one who’s chosen ignorance. No amount of Charity will absolve you of that.
slag
@Brick Oven Bill: Ignorant Jackass (noun): See BOB.
licensed to kill time
BoB’s officially lost it now, reduced to chanting.
geg6
@Elie:
Well, since I really don’t think I need to “read up” on how politics and policy works, perhaps you’d like to explain how the popular leader of the Democratic party has no power whatsoever to persuade his congressional party counterparts to get legislation he supports and has promised to the American people.
Because that’s not how I learned it works.
Brick Oven Bill
Modern Conservatism (n): An appreciation of the United States Constitution, that product of the Enlightenment, as enabled by the Seven Liberal Arts, that seated Talent and Virtue in their proper place, at the top of the Natural Aristocracy of Man, rendering Wealth and Birth unnecessary to exercise individual free will.
See Glenn Beck.
Shell
Just went to vote for Bitsy and saw there are now TWO pom’s in the top ten? Acckkkk!
Ash Can
@Da Bomb: LOL! Ain’t it the truth? All the running after red herrings is making me pull my hair out, though. I’m pretty much with mk3872 up there. Tea-leaf reading and second-guessing is fun and interesting and all, but when people jump on some throwaway remark from some back-bencher from cattle country and insist that it means the public option is doomed, doomed, I say, it just makes my ass tired.
Face
@Ash Can: And at 3:16m, the GOS will be slammed with apoplectic pearl-clutchers just incensed that the bill does (fill in the blank with something not quite insanely liberal).
Da Bomb
@geg6: Read this
Hopefully this helps.
This is furthest we have gotten with health care reform.
So apparently, the strategy that the current leader is utilizing is somehow working.
Bad Horse's Filly
@Laura W: I commented last night, some blah, blah about her back-story and how everyone loves a mutt. I also voted again today. Though am a bit concerned by her lag and the Commissioner overtaking the lead.
jl
@Elie:
Sigh
Phewy
Yawwnnn
Harumpth
Tut tut
What what, old chap?
I know very well how the Exectuve and Congress works. Obama does not need to get Congressional approval to threaten Congresscritters to not support their requests on legislation and bills, and not to help them with their campaigns or fundraising.
kay
For what it’s worth, I think it’s all bullshit.
The media announced two weeks ago the public option was dead, and now they’re not going to admit that were wrong, but instead pretend this was some seismic shift.
I think it’s entirely predictable and even (gasp) FAIR gamesmanship for the opponents of the public option to announce to media that it was “dead”. It’s a tactic. They fell for it, as usual.
They didn’t know one thing about the possibility of a public option, and they repeated the spin the opponents of that option fed them.
Ash Can
@Face: I bet you’re absolutely right. Furthermore, I bet the same thing will happen here, albeit not to the extent it will there (there is a reason I comment here and not there, after all). I’m just looking forward to the resolution of this issue so that we can move on to a brand new issue to clutch our pearls over.
ksmiami
Fixed BOB’s last post:
Modern Conservatism (n): A bastardization of the intent of the United States Constitution, that product of the Enlightenment, which modern conservatives (like Sarah Palin) detest and deny as much as they revile the Seven Liberal Arts, particularly the East Coast colleges that believe in talent, hard work and an egalitarian principle rendering Wealth and Birth unnecessary to exercise individual free will. Also these so called Modern conservatives believe that they are the only ones entitled to (badly) run the US government for the benefit of their corporate stooges and when they are tossed out of office on their asses they actually become treasonous bastards who don’t follow any of the bedrock principles of a civil society and a civil discourse; yelling Soshalism to any mention of the public good and Secession when they don’t get the policies they want.
See WATB Glenn Beck.
The Saff
@gbear: I love Droopy! What a voice.
As for the healthcare reform debate, I stopped following it too closely during the height of the August townhall craziness. Now, I read the comments here and watch “Countdown.” That’s about all I can take.
ricky
This is all Obama’s fault. And Rahm is to blame. Damn that spineless Harry Reid.
licensed to kill time
@ksmiami:
Brilliant. Well done, sir/madam!
ricky
@Brick Oven Bill:
But do not touch unless tetanus is up to date.
Comrade Jake
Wait a minute: people here are puzzled that Obama doesn’t necessarily trust Reid to pull this off in the Senate? This is the same Harry Reid that all of us have been watching the past couple of years, right?
Elie
Jl and Geg6
Read at Da Bomb at 131…
And Jl — special points for the little descriptors…I was not making fun of you — I was making an observation about your comment that seemed to reveal a lack of knowledge about the process.
Geg 6 — The President can certainly bring pressure to bear and influence the Congress. He can also, as you seem to recommend, TELL them what to do. Problem is, they dont have to DO it just because he Tells them. And that is the key point, isnt it? He could even start screaming, calling them names and start to throw things at them. Makes for great visuals but wouldnt do much, I am guessing..
Come on now, both of you are smart. You know this, right? Telling someone to do something is the ultimate in top/down, autocratic action that you can do to someone. These are arrogant, self indulgent narcissistic Congresspeople who think that they are every bit as important as the President – maybe more. Yeah, Obama is likely to get what he wants that way.
I am glad that you are not advising him
geg6
@Da Bomb:
Sorry, but I have a degree in political science. I really do understand the legislative process and the politics of how a bill gets passed. I guess the sarcasm wasn’t coming through.
That post you linked to gives one view of how this process works. It is not definitive, by an stretch of the imagination. And my considered judgment is that if Reid is signaling that a word from the WH would get the bill passed without this crazy dance in reconciliation that the post in Booman says is somehow better, then that would be the best way to go. Then reconciliation becomes even more simple, in that you are reconciling two bills, both with public options, instead of two bills, only one of which has the public option. In fact, the post’s reasoning, IMHO, is ridiculous.
mcd410x
He waffles like Brett Favre
Trinity
@ricky: The link for the ad on the right of the page is wrong. Now that she is a semifinalist you have to go here(http://www.cutestdogcompetition.com/semifinals.cfm) to vote for her!
I wish they would fix this asap.
geg6
@Elie:
You somehow missed the news that congressional leaders were pleading with the president to signal his preference?
I seriously don’t need lessons in congressional sausage making. Not from amateurs.
MNPundit
Can i ask again? Where is the BASE picture of the Going Galt Dog in the Blue Bucket? It’s perfect for a photomanip I want to do.
Thanks.
Brick Oven Bill
Obama Columbia Paper. Eight Grade Level Writing.
Jefferson’s Natural Aristrocracy of Man Paper. This paper very well may have been divinely inspired.
“It was a bill for the more general diffusion of learning. This proposed to divide every county into wards of five or six miles square, like your townships; to establish in each ward a free school for reading, writing, and common arithmetic; to provide for the annual selection of the best subjects from these schools, who might receive, at the public expense, a higher degree of education at a district school; and from these district schools to select a certain number of the most promising subjects, to be completed at a university, where all the useful sciences should be taught. Worth and genius would thus have been sought out from every condition of life, and completely prepared by education for defeating the competition of wealth and birth for public trusts?”
The Ivy League is largely populated by students whose parents, by wealth and birth, obtain slots for their kids. These and academically-uncompetitive minority students.
The Ivy League hates Natural Law, and the ideals of Jefferson, as this is a threat to their pay-to-play power-sharing scheme.
The most gifted students should be educated by the State. Slots should not be allocated by Wealth, and race. Observe the level of Obama’s writing skills.
licensed to kill time
@MNPundit:
This one?
Elie
geg6
Wow!
I am so sorry that I gave my opinion, your Ladyship.
This is a democratic site. People of all stripes can offer an opinion. Even if you have a PhD, someone can disagree with you, my friend.
You had an opinion on how a particular phase of the negotiation, “sausage making” should be handled. That is all. YOUR opinion.
This rank “amateur” disagreed with you.
And I will continue to disagree when I do and give you reasons why.
Could care less about your exalted “degree”… if you expect to shut me up using that ploy
Stooleo
More of “teh stupid” from Politico. I sure hope Obama doesn’t take up brush clearing as a hobby.
Elie/Rank Amateur
geg6
I can also see from your attitude why you would think that Obama should “Tell” the Congress/Reid what to do.
I am sure that you would be successful too.
Yeah.
valdivia
why is BOB peddling something to have been proven to be a satire post about something Obama did not write?
where is the pie filter when one needs it.
Poopyman
Wile E. Coyote, just before looking down into empty space.
licensed to kill time
@MNPundit:
Or this one w/o text?
Da Bomb
@Comrade Jake: You would think that people would have figured out the reasoning by now. But that isn’t the case. Harry Reid isn’t a brand new toy to be mysterious about. But the way some of the blogoshpere has been acting you would think he got elected yesterday.
Da Bomb
@geg6: I have degree as well, with a political science background. Your point?
MNPundit
@licensed to kill time: Perfect! The one without text.
The search function failed me.
Da Bomb
@Elie: You are correct. And last time I checked, someone tried to tell Congress what to do, oh when was that back in 1993? 1994?
And we see how healthcare has improved since then right?
licensed to kill time
@MNPundit:
I dug around in the dog blogging category. Killing time, you see ;-)
gsp
Muslim. Hide your daughters, people. and what the hell is up with Ross Douthat? Does the right have any intellectuals left?
MJ
Keep voting y’all. Little Bitsy is currently in 2nd place with 4105 votes. Whereas Commissioner James Gordon has 5531 votes.
kay
@geg6:
Come on, geg, Obama’s avoiding a showdown because he wants negotiations to continue.
If he calls waffling Congressional Democrats out, the press will descend on them and force them commit.
Then we’re stalled. The White House wants it to keep moving. It’s not time to do or dare, leave the table. They want them all at the table.
Stalled is not our friend. Stalled leaves an opening for the opposition.
arguingwithsignposts
BoB, I took the trouble of reading that pdf you linked, and I’ve never read an eighth-grader’s writing that is on that level. Note the multi-syllabic words, the lengthy paragraphs, the nuanced sentences.
From the 2nd paragraph:
I challenge you to show me an average eighth-grader who can write like that.
Second, it was written at Columbia, according to you, which means he still had YEARS of education and experience ahead of him before he wrote the damned book. (12, to be exact)
In short. S.T.F.U. you ignorant asshat.
Martin
Just BOB.
gwangung
@Napoleon:
Actually, that’s what people CONCLUDE that’s what they’re signalling. That, in no way, is actually what they’re thinking or doing. And it’s a symptom of the short term thinking that dominated political discourse, where winning the daily news cycle has become the goal of policy.
Your entire argument is unconvincing because it’s based on a particular set of assumptions about political behavior that are in no way immutable. Change one assumption and behavior changes and the results will change.
That does not mean that you are incorrect in the end. You may well turn out to be correct. But you seem rather caught up in the finer details to see the entire whole.
Bruce Reynolds
Like Jimmy Carter
ricky
@New Yorker:
You have yet to address the soft bigotry implied by your low to non existent attention to Ecuadorians.
Elie
Da Bomb
Folks are really coming out of their bags around here —
Negotiations and interractions of much less exalted stripes that I take part in every day with my clients require many times a deft touch and an ear to my clients’ egos and other perceived preregotives. I can tell you, I can rarely even “tell” a subordinate on my own team anything using a top/down, arrogant tone.
Tell me, Da Bomb, why do we need this emotional coercion demonstrated to make ourselves feel that someone is negotiating or getting things done the way we want? Is head bashing the only method that we accept as valid and effective anymore?
Seems to me that many must have received some sort of horrible brainwashing during the Bush years. All we seem to want to see and to model is coercion and the use of raw, obvious top/down power. Like abused people, we want to in turn abuse?
geg6
@Da Bomb:
I guess that I don’t take the Booman post very seriously. It doesn’t make much sense, in that Obama most certainly can have a major effect on getting a good bill passed. One that doesn’t need a bunch of scrambling to reconcile two bills that are directly contradictory to each other. At this point in the process and with Reid and Pelosi practically screaming at him to let congresscritters know his preferences, it makes much more sense for him to say what, exactly, he wants of the options out there. He doesn’t have to do it in public. He has a guy right there during this whole process. Tell the guy to say it and we’ll get a better bill in the end. It makes much more sense to fight from among progressive options than two options, one progressive and one not.
geg6
@kay:
Again, no need to go public with it. And he doesn’t even have to say it himself. His guy in the negotiations. Let the guy say it and it will even have plausible deniability if needed.
bayville
I am sort of waffling between Chairman Van Jones-Ayers and Rev. Adolf Chappaquiddick, Jr..
I’ll get back later when I have more data.
Da Bomb
@Elie: Folks and the media have been browbeaten for the past 8 years.
The MSM is trying to convince the populace that they are not liberal-leaning and in their quest to so have been haphazardly reporting incorrect information by not fact checking their sources of information, hence why we had the Balloon Boy episode.
And I thought we wanted change, and wanted to vote for someone who wasn’t like Bush. Isn’t Bush’s method the main thing we decried for 8 years? Now they want Obama to do the same thing that Bush did? In their minds, it’s okay because, it’s our guy now.
Hyprocrisy is what I call it.
Martin
This is an interesting contradiction.
Here we have a situation where we’ve been asking Congress for how many years to grow a pair, and now Obama is being criticized for not telling Congress what Congress ought to do? No wonder Bush/Cheney ran roughshod over the Dems in Congress.
Do Reid/Pelosi really think that Obama would veto any good bill they sent him? If not, then what the fuck is their problem? They were elected to represent us in Congress – they should simply do their job and let Obama make the case for or against the bill they send him.
So which is it? Do we want an independent Congress or do we want one that can’t do anything without the WHs public approval?
Brick Oven Bill
I have just showered, and now have an aura of cleanliness that pleases me (smell, touch). Here are some other doozies arguingwithsignposts:
“The belief that moribund institutions, rather than individuals are at the root of the problem, keep SAM’s energies alive.”;
“An entirely student-run organization, SAM casts a wider net than ARA, though for the purposes of effectiveness, they have tried to lock in on one issue at a time.” ;
“At this time, the current major issue is the Solomon Bill, the latest legislation from Congress to obtain compliance to registration.”;
“Perhaps the essential goodness of humanity is an arguable proposition, but by observing the SAM meeting last Thursday night, with its solid turnout and enthusiasm, one might be persuaded that the manifestations of our better instincts can at least match the bad ones.”
Martin would probably give Barack an ‘A’ for this paper. See Number 71.
Da Bomb
@geg6: I can see what you are saying, but that’s one viewpoint of many.
Booman viewpoint makes sense to me.
But then again, we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes.
I just don’t think arm-twisting right now, is going to do it. Especially if Obama has been holding his hand close.
Put the responsibility on Reid, so he doesn’t cower like he alsways does in the heat of the moment.
Da Bomb
@Martin: This.
LoveMonkey
@Brick Oven Bill:
Yes, Bill, this is exactly why Obama is the first president in our history to employ people called “speech writers.”
Our previous president never needed speech writers, even though he himself could not read, speak or write the English language. Patiently and at great pain to himself, he used a crab tool to make marks in a clay tablet, which he then deciphered later when making his speeches.
See my url for more information.
geg6
@Da Bomb:
It’s not arm twisting that’s needed yet. Everything I read is that they were asking for a signal from the president. Signals aren’t arm twisting. It is simply letting your preferences be known. The arm twisting is what is done after the big guy says, “hey, this is what I’d like to see.” Then Reid and Pelosi and Schumer and all the rest do the arm twisting.
Anyway, hopefully, he does exactly that so that when the bill comes up for a vote for cloture, we can get the 60 we need to send it into reconciliation. And good on Harry “No Spine” Reid for actually showing one today for once.
kay
@geg6:
I’ve been watching this process really closely, as have you, I know, and we’re just drawing two different conclusions.
I’d like to indulge in a little “what if”. I’m concluding that if Obama had listened to critics at nearly any point of this process where he was called weak or wobbly we might be out. I know you didn’t use those terms, by the way.
As in OUT. Dead. Done. No reform.
Had he pushed the public option prior to the public expressing a preference for it, and prior to the organized opposition lobbing their best at it, he might have lost, and lost big. He can’t risk that.
I think I’m sticking with his gradual approach. It’s moving, and not only that, it’s moving in the right direction.
I don’t know that his critics have made their case, based just on what has happened. I can easily imagine a scenario where a more heavy-handed “line in the sand” declaration would have killed this thing dead, and damaged him on all other issues. In June. In August. In September.
We could have lost really big, at three separate points, had he followed advice. It’s not his nature to roll the dice, all or nothing, because that happens, sometimes you lose with those big drama gambits, and I’m glad he resisted. Losing big is a possibility. He knows that.
My big worry is not Barack Obama. It’s Harry Reid. I think he’s got a huge bruised ego and he consistently overpromises and swaggers. I hope I’m wrong.
freelancer
Jesus this site has become fractious as auto-glass in the past week. Did I miss something over the weekend? Did the Mac vs. PC threads create enemies? WTF?!
Cain
@freelancer:
No more than usual. You should have seen the fighting after Hillary lost. When we eat our own, we eat with gusto!
cain
geg6
@kay:
But I don’t think it HAS to be done with a big drama thing. He’s been meeting with them privately. He’s had a guy there the entire time in the meetings. I, too, believed that he handled it just right. Until it became obvious that he was being asked for help, just in the last week or so. My guess is that he was asked privately and rebuffed them. That is why they went public with their begging. I think that was a mistake. I think it’s entirely possible we’d have had this same outcome a week ago if he’d done what he was asked to do.
Thadeus Horne
@Brick Oven Bill: If Obama really cared about the American people, he would send money to you, BoB. Then you could get a proper mental evaluation as to which treatment would have the highest likelihood of restoring your sanity and returning you to the human race.
Brick Oven Bill
If Martin taught our Second Liberal Art of Rhetoric, this would surely merit an ‘A’ as well.
Read the ideals of Jefferson. This is Natural Law. This should be our aim.
Read also the words of Lincoln. Lincoln was elected by an electorate that demanded more than ‘Change’, and a patriarchal image. Lincoln was smart, and a good and moral leader.
Societies can move backwards. This is the goal of some, to the detriment of most. This is Artificial Law.
Brick Oven Bill
The Bushes are not a particularly smart strain of humanity either LoveMonkey. I believe that Wealth and Birth are the reason why George got his slot the Ivy League. This is Artificial Law. This is unhealthy for a Nation.
Brick Oven Bill
The Bushes are not a particularly smart strain of humanity either LoveMonkey. I believe that Wealth and Birth are the reason why George got his slot the Ivy League. This is Artificial Law. This is unhealthy for a Nation.
Brick Oven Bill
#191 belies limitations of Talent. Talent can be honed.
Cain
BoB,
Stop posting from the men’s bathroom and get back to work. Also did you vote for Bitsy today?
cain
Sloegin
Brick, why are you still harping on a paper that was determined to be a hoax?
Or have you decided, along with a certain winger (after being informed of the hoax, that this paper is “fake, but accurate”?
handy
BOB, how is this TelePrompter thing more than a RW projection, after the world had to endure for eight years quite possibly the most ineloquent Leader of the Free World in the entire history of the World Ever?
Really? We’re going to dig out people’s undergrad papers? I imagine Bush’s were written in crayon, if at all. And since when has any of this stuff every mattered before? I don’t remember you nuts even digging out Clinton’s old college? What gives?
kay
@geg6:
I think they want political cover to pass huge risky legislation, and I want them to own it. He’s out there. He’s going to sign it.
As a practical matter, they have to sell it to constituents, and it has to be effectuated at the state level (I think that’s how it will play out), so they can consider this “practice” in being big grown up representatives.
Let them own it now. It’s theirs.
geg6
@handy:
It’s all the blackety, blackety, blackety black. No other reason. Believe me.
Brick Oven Bill
The Columbia thesis was the hoax (The New Aristocracy of Man, I think the hoax-paper was called). This Columbia paper is the real deal. His Columbia thesis remains concealed from our eyes, in a manner similar to the rest of Obama’s academic records.
Obama’s error was being published as an undergrad. This paper then entered the public domain. He corrected this error as the Editor of Harvard’s Law Review, and remained silent.
Now I have to go. Have a nice day.
sylvia
Update on the contest and Little Bitsy—-
Oprah pulled out and left the contest hanging…. now what to do….. do they announce the top 4 now ( I think they should) or do they go back to the original rules before O came into the pic?
There is still voting going on but … I think the bubble has burst and they need to announce the 4 finalist soon!
Hoping that LB is in that top 4!
Also – thanks brick oven bill for the vote!!
Brick Oven Bill
One more for the road. The hoax-thesis was called Aristocracy Reborn. You can tell it is a hoax as it is coherently written:
“… the Constitution allows for many things, but what it does not allow is the most revealing. The so-called Founders did not allow for economic freedom. While political freedom is supposedly a cornerstone of the document, the distribution of wealth is not even mentioned. While many believed that the new Constitution gave them liberty, it instead fitted them with the shackles of hypocrisy.”
Now compare with the real McCoy:
“The belief that moribund institutions, rather than individuals are at the root of the problem, keep SAM’s energies alive.”
valdivia
@kay:
this. Obama has an incredible sense of when to hit when to promise when to speak. Reid absolutely none. The fact that tons of people are willing to put their faith on Reid instead of Obama just speaks volume to me. Note that none of the “I am so disappointed with the WH” is coming from the Senate and not the House. Why? Because Obama knows what Pelosi says will happen actually happens.
Comrade Kevin
@handy:
Barack Obama is black, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush are white.
freelancer
@Cain:
I was here, lurking if not posting. But you kind of expect that in an election year. Everybody has their own pony.
This is just bizarre.
Bostondreams
@Brick Oven Bill:
You are actually being serious when you refer to Lincoln being elected by ‘an electorate that demanded more than ‘Change’, and a patriarchal image’? You DO understand that the only reason Lincoln was able to accomplish anything was because Southern traitors fled the Union when they couldn’t get their way?
Maybe they should do it again.
valdivia
@Comrade Kevin:
guys the worse is that BOB is using a paper that Obama DID NOT write, this is all a hoax and widely credited as being a hoax. and he is still flogging it. His thesis was on nuclear armament not class struggle and the founders.
4jkb4ia
Snarl:
In the amended health care bill, English version, page 84, “perinatal” was replaced with “prenatal”. I am aware that “perinatal” is a word, and means something different, but I cannot rule out that including it may just have been an inability to spell.
4jkb4ia
Especially since the original had “excludible”, which is not a word.
Reading this bill is slower than molasses.
4jkb4ia
Here are the home visitation grants.
4jkb4ia
Improvement in “family economic factors”!? Is this not beyond the power of a home visitation program to affect?
Elie aka The Amateur
@valdivia
What you say…
“Obama has an incredible sense of when to hit when to promise when to speak. Reid absolutely none. The fact that tons of people are willing to put their faith on Reid instead of Obama just speaks volume to me. Note that none of the “I am so disappointed with the WH” is coming from the Senate and not the House. Why? Because Obama knows what Pelosi says will happen actually happens”
kay also:
“Let them own it now. It’s theirs.”
This is what we want. We want to witness how to use the system correctly and how to get the various institutions to do their jobs. Painful? Maddening? Hell yes, but we have to get his process working right and part of that is having the right people take responsibility for an outcome.
Of course, I am an amateur, what do I know?
kay
@valdivia:
I don’t know when it became a given that if Obama had started on single payer we’d be at a better point.
Or, starting at single payer and “drawing a line in the sand” would have garnered the support of maybe 30 Democrats in April and then the whole thing would have stalled, and we’d be dead in the water.
And he would blown his whole wad on one bad bet, handily destroying any leverage he had with Congress, beaten before he started.
Or that. That might have happened too.
Comrade Mary
Digby jumped the shark yesterday.
All that’s missing are the twirling mustaches and capes and “Hah-HA! My pretty!”s.
cathaireverywhere
Did anyone see this excellent video of Al Franken shutting down a Hudson Institute shill regarding medical bankruptcies?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgqqSHr0wVA&feature=player_embedded
Brick Oven Bull**it
Per Brick Oven Bill
To think that Obama really cares about the well-being of the American people is projection. If Obama was the Robin Hood people like to project onto his image, he would send a portion of his book advance, or his salary, to his blood-brother, who still lives in a hut. He would also send some help to his illegal alien aunt.
Obama thus is not Charitable.
Obama cares about himself and consolidating power, and control.
In other words – Obama is actually a Conservative Republican – DOH!!!
Elie aka The Amateur
I think that some of the bitter from the left progressives comes from the need for blog sites to foment debate through discord. That is, people are not energized to comment on blogs unless they are pissed off or angry.
That need for anger and sharp criticism unfortunately lays down a sort of template of expected behavior and sets a world view of ongoing and intense agrievement…Nothing that is happening is fast enough, deep enough and frankly, truly not understood enough to keep down the flames. Indeed, all the sites (including this one), want flames and argument — makes for much more “interesting” reading even if it does sour the ability for public discourse and even if many don’t seem to know the basics of civics 101. Who cares? It SHOULD be this way or that way and we SHOULD know this thing or that thing…
I tell you, I have to step away from the blogs from time to time. I get the game, but don’t always see the value…at least on this site, overall there is information and knowledge exchange. Too many other sites seem to go for the blood sport of it, live in the short term and let the damage to public discourse and any kind of understanding of real civics go to hell.
wasa1
You forgot Satan. Why???