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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Dropping the Ball

Dropping the Ball

by | 175 Comments

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Look, I know unemployment is over 10%, there was a shooting in Texas and another in Florida, the Republicans just staged a hatefest on the Capitol steps, and Afghanistan is still an issue, and Health Care reform is moving forward slowly, but what happened to all the hard hitting journalism we are used to?

There are serious questions that need to be answered. How many women were at Obama’s basketball game today? Did he sneak a smoke? What do Michelle Obama’s arms look like today? Aren’t there any anonymous sources out there who will tell a reporter that the White House hates “teh left?”

Inquiring minds, folks. Do your damned jobs.

Reader Interactions

175Comments

  2. 2.

    General Winfield Stuck

    but what happened to all the hard hitting journalism we are used to?

    Because Matt Drudge slipped on a condom and broke his assbone. Everything stopped.

  4. 4.

    demkat620

    I just saw some of the teabag coverage from yesterday. Two things:

    Michelle Bachmann is running for president and it really is like the last eight yearss never happened with these people.

  5. 5.

    Derelict

    The problem is that America’s assignment editor is laid up with a bad appendix.

    (And if that works out like his ass surgery did, we’re in for some major cognitive dissonance as he is forced to rail against his own private-market healthcare.)

  6. 6.

    beltane

    My fourteen year old son comes home with much better gossip than the stuff these wankers produce. I’m still enjoying the fallout from NY-23, with Bill Owens being sworn in and a sure Yes vote on the health care reform bill.

  7. 7.

    mcc

    Never fear, we have the Politico. Checking their front page today I find mostly legitimate-if-conservatively-framed articles– an article about how what high unemployment augurs for midterm elections, a hard news piece about how Bill Owens is canceling his meeting with Obama due to house vote scheduling, analysis of how Obama will frame future stimulus efforts, an article on Palin doing something for once actually vaguely newsworthy… but… wait! Yes, here it is, if you scroll down past all that Politico comes through with a web poll!

    Worst of Year One
    What was President Barack Obama’s worst move in the year since he was elected?

    • Saying Cambridge police acted “stupidly” in Gates arrest

    • Going to Copenhagen to try to bring the Olympics to the U.S.

    • Not fully vetting his Cabinet nominees

    • Setting a deadline to shut down Gitmo — which he’s not going to meet

    • Being everywhere … all the time

    • None of these

    Why would you ever doubt, John?

    Why would you ever doubt?

  9. 9.

    Beauzeaux

    Cheer up. Right now the Huffington Post has a hard-hitting article on the web’s funniest Venn Diagrams.

  10. 10.

    slag

    Who cares about the current 10+% unemployment problem? What about the possible future inflation problem that may or may not harm us?!? Seriously. Where are your priorities?

  12. 12.

    Brachiator

    A coworker accidentally rented a great 1933 film from Netflix, called Wild Boys of the Road, about teen hobos during the Great Depression. Some killer dialog:

    Edward ‘Eddie’ Smith: [to judge] I knew all that stuff about you helping us was baloney. I’ll tell you why we can’t go home–because our folks are poor. They can’t get jobs and there isn’t enough to eat. What good will it do you to send us home to starve? You say you’ve got to send us to jail to keep us off the streets. Well, that’s a lie. You’re sending us to jail because you don’t want to see us. You want to forget us. But you can’t do it because I’m not the only one. There’s thousands just like me, and there’s more hitting the road every day.

    Tommy Gordon: You read in the papers about giving people help. The banks get it. The soldiers get it. The breweries get it. And they’re always yelling about giving it to the farmers. What about us? We’re kids!

    Everything old is new again.

  13. 13.

    Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)

    Paris Hilton appears to currently be free of cold sores. That’s good news for somebody.

  14. 14.

    calipygian

    Ackerman

    Ft. Hood’s commander, Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, said today that there are unconfirmed reports that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan shouted “God is great” in Arabic before opening fire yesterday at the Army base. Again: we will soon be able to hear Hasan’s motivations in his own words. Even if he shouted such a thing, it would no more reflect on his co-religionists than does the fanatic who murdered Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller and who happened to consider himself a devout Christian does on his co-religionists. It’s worth remembering that nearly all mass shootings in this country are committed by white men. Do we have a white-man problem on our hands?

    I think the media in general, spearheaded by Fox News needs to make sure that every single white, Christian man in America is monitored to make sure that they don’t go whacko and start to just shoot the place up.

    Those people scare the fuck out of me.

  15. 15.

    scav

    I’ve not heard anything about the dreadful mental trauma of the no-longer-so-immensely-wealthy as they envision life without that third gift-wrapping room as the dreaded “holiday” season advances either. They’re definitely slacking. eek, I just noticed, was the war on Christmas canceled?!

  23. 23.

    calipygian

    I think a primary battle between Jim DeMint, Michelle Bachman and Caribou Barbie would create a vortex of stupid so dense that only comedy could escape.

  25. 25.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @calipygian:

    While it does seem that religion played some part in Hasan’s actions, the precipitating event looks like his deployment to Iraq or Afghan./ What I don’t understand is all the giant tells saying he was on the edge were not caught. Every soldier is evaluated as deployable or not before going overseas. And it is not uncommon for those with emotional or psych problems to be reassigned or left behind. Some of the shit this guy was saying, if news reports are accurate, should have cast doubt on his mental status to go to a war zone.

  27. 27.

    scav

    @calipygian: well, the stores near me had the wrapping paper up before the candy hit the shelves so the cranberry sauce brigades have indeed been entirely awol. this could be a tragically short season if we don’t get everyone off the benches soon.

  28. 28.

    Max

    @calipygian: From someone who is in the retail real estate industry.

    No war on Christmas!

    Christmas = good

    Pictures with Santa = good. Super-size your photo package.

    Shop till you drop. Buy Buy Buy

  31. 31.

    HumboldtBlue

    Wait, didn’t that singer Rihanna just come clean about whatever happened to her a ways back? Can’t we have more inside scoops on how Angelina Jolie is messing up her African child’s hair? What DID ever happen to Natalie Holloway anyway? Why did Obama force the Democrats to lose two, TWO gubenatorial races? Is Michelle Obama working out too much? Are home-grown organic gardens really what the heartland wants? Are the Obamas thinking of adopting another dog? When will America take Victoria Jackson seriously, and is her silencing just another part of the great usurpers jihad against real American news? Why didn’t the MSM treat hero Joe Girardi with more respect after he saved a woman who had crashed on the turnpike? Did Rush Limbaugh go without socks during his FOX interview to show solidarity with poor Americans? How has Obama managed to destroy America in one year? Where is the birth certificate? If Jake Tapper asks a question of the White House, why does the rest of the media ignore it? Does Obama REALLY like pancakes, or is he just trying to get in good with real Americans who most assuredly like pancakes?

    So many questions, so few truthful answers.

    Such as, also.

  32. 32.

    WereBear

    @General Winfield Stuck: Some of the shit this guy was saying, if news reports are accurate, should have cast doubt on his mental status to go to a war zone.

    It probably did. But what then? Who in their right mind would want to head for a war zone? Catch-22, baby!

  33. 33.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    Really! Where is the coverage of real news! Last week I heard Michelle Obama on the news talking about Barack, saying “He beats me regularly” and nobody is investigating it!

    Hard hitting news indeed.

  34. 34.

    calipygian

    @General Winfield Stuck: That was the very first thought I had when I heard about the shooting: someone is trying to get out of deployment.

    I suspect it is a mixture of Columbine, Even Hitler Had a Girlfriend/ Big Fan, resentment at the Army for not letting him out of his obligation, resentment at having to deploy, anger at the war and some PTSD himself from having to hear some horrid shit from patients he treated.

    I seriously doubt he got an e-mail from Osama bin Laden telling him to do this.

  35. 35.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @WereBear:

    Well, when you are saying things like the enemy is right using suicide bombers and such, is not really considered free speech in the military. They generally frown on giving the enemy such accolades.

  36. 36.

    Chad N Freude

    @mcc: How could they have left out accepting the Nobel Peace Prize? My faith in Politico is severely shaken.

  37. 37.

    Dave C

    I was listening to to NPR’s Marketplace in the car today, and they got to the part where the host, Kai Risdall, brings in some Econ pundits to talk about what is going on. I braced for the first because they sometimes have McMeghan on, but today they had Reuters’ Felix Salmon and Fortune’s Leigh Gallagher. Both of them made the argument that while things really, really suck and will probably continue to do so for the immediate future, what we’re dealing with is basically still a result of many “fires” that the Obama administration did not start. They also made clear that things would actually be substantially worse had not the the stimulus plan been enacted. Whoa. Was not expecting that.

  40. 40.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    Tancredo just walked off of The Ed Show (Schuster hosting). He was demanding an apology from Markos (Head Satan at the GoS).

    It twas a thing of beauty. :)

  42. 42.

    DougJ

    “Let’s talk about whether Creed is underrated again. That was awesome.”

    I am more in the mood for what’s on Hillary’s iPod.

  43. 43.

    Dave C

    Ugh, I meant to say in the above comment that I “braced for the “worst,” not the “first.”

  44. 44.

    scav

    @calipygian: wait, isn’t it socialized medicine that is now the greatest threat to our beloved nation? maybe the critical link isn’t the Islam, it’s the Psychiatry.

  45. 45.

    Seebach

    Well, when you are saying things like the enemy is right using suicide bombers and such, is not really considered free speech in the military. They generally frown on giving the enemy such accolades.

    Maybe they just really, really need soldiers there, so they’re lowering sanity standards, as well?

  48. 48.

    Comrade Dread

    single white, Christian man

    Whew. Married. Thank God for that.

    but what happened to all the hard hitting journalism we are used to?

    What I want to know is what does Cheney think of how Barrack Obama botched his mention of the shooting tragedy in his speech to the Native Americans?

  50. 50.

    HyperIon

    @General Winfield Stuck wrote:

    While it does seem that religion played some part in Hasan’s actions, the precipitating event looks like his deployment to Iraq or Afghan.

    Have you visited Pat Lang’s site today?
    He has a “unique” theory about it.
    The more I read that guy, the more he strikes me as an authoritarian asshole. And the commenters over there are always so quick to fawn over “the Colonel”.

  54. 54.

    Seebach

    This is my important question: at what point when WaPo and other media organizations are hemorrhaging money, do David Brooks and Chris Clizilla get fired? Maybe they get to set up blogs and get day jobs like the rest of us?

  56. 56.

    Chad N Freude

    @calipygian: On “Left, Right, and Center” on teh NPR, Robert Scheer (notorious lefty) talked about how his entire education and subsequent career were sponsored and completely financed by the Army, raising the question of the Army’s selection criteria. I presume that everyone on the thread has heard the reports of the Major’s religious fanaticism and general unsociability. I don’t understand how they could have determined that he was fit for a combat zone, in the Middle East no less.

  57. 57.

    WereBear

    @General Winfield Stuck: Well, you’re a General. I can’t argue with that.

    I was thinking of how they “relaxed” the rules about felons and such to up their numbers. Now, a highly trained person not easily replaceable? They undoubtedly made a lot of excuses why they didn’t have to take action… and he’s leaving the States, besides.

    Heck, I’ve worked for companies wherein obvious psychopaths got promotions and a corner office… right up to the point where one of them got arrested. But, you know, he brought in the numbers. His private life (kidnapping and rape, as it turned out) was his own business.

    So I’m a tad cynical about how administration, of any stripe, handles these sticky issues. By far the preferred method is to pass it on to some other person who hasn’t a clue what is being transferred to their plate.

    Wrong? Absolutely. Common? Yes.

  58. 58.

    Chad N Freude

    David Brooks is on NPR news pontificating about “ver-r-ry interesting polling data” suggesting a “move to the right.” My ears are bleeding.

  59. 59.

    Seebach

    David Brooks is on NPR news pontificating about “ver-r-ry interesting polling data” suggesting a “move to the right.” My ears are bleeding.

    I thought we were a center-right nation, already? How do we move to the right and not become a right-wing nation? Since we keep moving to the right consistently, when do we become a fascist state?

  60. 60.

    srv

    By the time it was over, medics had administered government-run health care to at least five people in the crowd who were stricken as they denounced government-run health care.

    heh

  61. 61.

    Chad N Freude

    @WereBear: They could have just let him remain at Walter Reed, but I think he was probably being rotated to a new post to comply with policy.

  63. 63.

    calipygian

    I presume that everyone on the thread has heard the reports of the Major’s religious fanaticism and general unsociability.

    Absolutely. I spent 20 years in the military and have met all types. If you kicked out every poorly socialized NCO/Petty officer/officer who was a dickish, badly socialized religious fanatic, you’d need to recruit a bunch of guys pretty quickly.

    Most of them, no matter how sanctimonious or dickish however, don’t go on a killing spree. This one did. And he happened to be Muslim.

  64. 64.

    Chad N Freude

    @Seebach: It’s Zeno’s Paradox in action. There is always more distance to cover to get to the finish line of complete rightness.

  66. 66.

    calipygian

    @WereBear: The military tends to kick shitty cans down the road to the next guy. Its part of the problem in the military – you might get a guy who is an obvious fuck-up, but wait two years and that fuck-up will be someone elses problem because he will execute a Permanent Change of Station.

    Problems don’t get solved – they get outlasted.

  67. 67.

    Comrade Dread

    @calipygian: I was aware of your intent.

    I was just making my own joke as opposed to my usual scarily evil tactics of declaring unending crusade and oppressing people with opposing views of religion. ;)

  70. 70.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @HyperIon:

    Geesh, That Pat Lang is not remotely like the one I used to read and hear from on teevee about Iraq. Another one goes to the dark side, i guess.

  72. 72.

    schrodinger's cat

    There are serious questions that need to be answered. How many women were at Obama’s basketball game today? Did he sneak a smoke? What do Michelle Obama’s arms look like today? Aren’t there any anonymous sources out there who will tell a reporter that the White House hates “teh left?”

    I could say the same thing about you, you have some great posts up today especially about our incompetent media, but what about the mighty Tunch and his new minion Lily the dog? What have they been up to? Seriously, how about an update, with photos?

  75. 75.

    Brick Oven Bill

    According to the grocery store tabloid, The Globe, Glenn Beck made Michelle Cry after Barack bellowed ‘They hate me!’ at his staff.

    That’s pretty good, considering that Barack has a gift. Andrea Mitchell never made Michelle cry.

    ”Harry, I Have A Gift”.

    Me, I’ve only got a Special Purpose.

  78. 78.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Chad N Freude:
    David Brooks is an idiot, why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me. He is a reliably pro-republican hack but with better manner than the average wingnut.

  82. 82.

    kay

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    Why are they constantly demanding apologies? Every single day, they are due an apology, from someone or other. This, from people who have made never apologizing an iron-clad rule. How can they hold these two conflicting things in their heads?
    If the measure of self-regard is how easily you are “offended” they’re all egomaniacs.

  84. 84.

    Mark S.

    I just watched that Tancredo flouncing clip, and that dipshit actually argued that soldiers would rather have a voucher to buy private insurance? Jesus, what a fucking tool.

  85. 85.

    Chad N Freude

    @Brick Oven Bill: C’mon, you’re really DougJ having fun with us, aren’t you. You’re certainly not the classicist/federalist/racist we all learned to detest.

  86. 86.

    Leelee for Obama

    If Bachmann and Palin wind up debating each other, what’s the over-under on which one speaks in tongues first? Now that would be news in these tough economic times!

  88. 88.

    Elie

    There is a lot of complexity to the issue of managing mental illness — both for the mentally ill and for the system in which they function…

    The Major from all reports, was quite an ill man, exhibiting symptoms for some time. That there was no professional of adequate experience, seniority and integrity to make sure that he was taken out of the stressful and risky situation that he was in, makes me wonder how well they are taking care of the many traumatized young soldiers under their immediate care and supervision.

    We have a huge problem with mental illness in this country and these occasional violent eruptions are just the tiny tip of the scope of the problem. Every day, people with severe problems put themselves and others at risk, not so much in life or death violence situations, but destroyed quality of life. Imagine seeing your son approach the house and having at once conflicting feelings of joy and dread, remembering the last time he was home and stole everything that wasnt nailed down. Remember the many many trips to the doctor trying to get medications adjusted to treat profound symptoms and the frustration of not having stuff work, but not having a professional who will work with you to find something that will. Think of children — children with permanent ticks from side effects to drugs given to them that have not been tested on children…

    The burden of mental illness is massive and its concommittant morbidity impacting other health is also huge…people with mental illness and their families are frequently physically ill and do not respond well to treatment — something about prolonged stress…

    One of the things that I hope and pray, is that with health care reform, we can offer more to people in the way of more complete mental health assessment and care services. As you can tell, I know a lot about it as my life has been greatly affected by it but many many people also have been.

    Thanks for listening to my soap box rant

  90. 90.

    demkat620

    @Max: Hey, you remember when Tom Tancredo was allowed to spout any bullshit he wanted about brown people and liberals?

    Good times.

  92. 92.

    kay

    @Beeb:

    I didn’t realize how much the military had in common with the Catholic church.

    The Postal Service was the same way. Just move them around. Maybe they got better at it, or the crazy faction retired. There hasn’t been a horrendous Postal workplace shooting following 5000 ignored red flags in a long time.

  94. 94.

    Leelee for Obama

    @Chad N Freude: Yeah-I needed the Alaskan-English translator thingie for that last speech with the sourdoughs and the chamchatkas(?)

    Still, imagine the complete awesome!

  97. 97.

    Chad N Freude

    I just watched the Markos-Tancredo Death Match. Very funny, but Schuster’s comment in the last minute of the clip was absolutely first-rate, not to mention excellent.

  100. 100.

    Fwiffo

    @schrodinger’s cat

    The OJ thing was an actual scandal during the primaries. Yes, seriously.

    Things have always been this bad.

  101. 101.

    dmsilev

    @calipygian:

    Wow. Markos really kicked Tom Tancredo in the nuts, followed by a pretty hard throat punch.

    That was pretty good. Now, if we could only get someone to do that to Pat Buchanan on a regular basis, MSNBC might make some progress towards being a bigot-free zone.

    -dms

  102. 102.

    demkat620

    God the stupid level of these people is frightening.

    Brian Billbray is insane. Please make a note of it.

  103. 103.

    In Gold We Trust

    Amid the ongoing financial regulation overhaul, the banking industry is hoping to pull off a quiet power grab that has eluded its grasp since the Great Depression, by stripping the independence of the board that sets financial accounting standards.

    The move could effectively let banks set their own accounting standards in rough economic times.

    Astonishingly, at a time when the public is crying out for greater regulation to limit excessive risk-taking by financial institutions, the banks are trying to get Congress to agree that the next time there’s a big downturn, they should have the ability to alter their accounting standards — essentially, fudge the numbers — so that the public and investors won’t be able to tell how insolvent they really are.

    Shoot ’em all – let God sort ’em out. No ONE will miss ’em

  106. 106.

    Reason60

    Well over at Wall Street Journal, John Fund is exclaiming that Congress shouldn’t pass a “partisan health care bill”.

    After the Republicans made it clear that not one of them under any circumstances would vote for any bill no how no way, unless it were written by Aetna.

  107. 107.

    Chad N Freude

    After the Republicans made it clear that not one of them under any circumstances would vote for any bill no how no way, unless even if it were written by Aetna.

    Fixed.

  109. 109.

    Cain

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    Really! Where is the coverage of real news! Last week I heard Michelle Obama on the news talking about Barack, saying “He beats me regularly” and nobody is investigating it!

    Followed by a Glenn Beck “War on Christmas” special where he declares “you know who else beats his women regularly? HITLER!!”

    cain

  110. 110.

    Seebach

    They had msnbc on at work and I got to watch the Tancredo pwnage live. It was most amusing.

    Now that he’s chickened out, any Democrat anywhere knows how they can get him to STFU instantly. Mistake on his part.

  111. 111.

    Chad N Freude

    If anybody cares, The Daily Beast has an interview with Erick son of Erick.

    Erickson said he knows he sometimes crossed the line, “but at the same time you do want to excite and inspire on your own side.”
    __
    “I don’t view myself in a position where I’m trying to talk to the other side nicely and explain my case and convince them I’m right. I know I’m right,” he said. “I’m talking to my own side, rallying the troops to take action. I want to make things happen. I want to blow things up and get things done.”

    Didn’t that used to be called rabble-rousing?

  112. 112.

    mandarama

    OK, I said in an earlier thread that Jon Stewart’s fab Beckapalooza wasn’t enough to cheer me, considering I live in Marsha Blackburn’s district. But this clip? And Shuster’s finale? I’m singin’ in the rain.

    Can we get Marsha on this show? She never disappoints with the canned rhetoric and inability to field fly balls.

  113. 113.

    Chuck Butcher

    @Leelee for Obama:

    Go Markos, Go Shuster. Well done!

    I do wonder if Markos will invited back for a guest v guest spot.

    I rolled on the floor, for some pretty personal reasons. I have not real pleasant memories of trying to get my personal affairs in order to go to jail if my number was called. A ball drop kept me out, third from last as I remember to fall.

    There was no way I could ask for a CO since I’m not a pacifist so it was leave or jail and I’m no good at backing down or backing out. I really really did not like the idea of jail – but a Tancredo or Rushbo can never be done to me.

  114. 114.

    dmsilev

    @Chad N Freude: I don’t think there are enough people reading RedState for Erick to qualify as a rabble-rouser. More like ‘crazy guy shouting at sky’.

    -dms

  116. 116.

    calipygian

    OMG! I just saw last nights Colbert Report, and he noted how yesterday’s Tea Bagger rally on the Capital steps actually took place on Guy Fawkes’ Day.

    Now Colbert doesn’t make cheap tea bagger jokes, he calls them Guy Fawkers and wonders when the next event will be held so he can get Guy Fawked.

    Gold.

  119. 119.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    And why is no one talking about being Guy Fawked?

    Because it just isn’t controversial enough. It’s a small step from teabagging to Guy Fawking and both are acceptable to reasonable people, thus nobody cares to talk about it.

    I do have to give props to Bachman Wingnut Overdrive for pushing the idea of teabaggers engaging Guy Fawking.

    Way to go crazy lady!

  121. 121.

    Leelee for Obama

    @Chuck Butcher: Yeah, those were the days, eh? I sweated out my brother’s draft lottery, and several friends. My brother was OK, but two friends were in the early numbers, so one came home, bent a bit, the other didn’t. I had a CO boyfriend at the time who was going to wind up in Danbury for two years, but by the time he should have been called up, they were pulling troops out and it never came to that. My brother’s choice, if he had been called up, was to be a non-combatant, so he’d be a medic. I stopped breathing for awhile after he told us that. When his number was so far back, I thanked God-cause his non-combatant choice was my influence. On his 18th birthday, I bought him tickets to “Johnny Got His Gun” . I remember the phone call after he left the theater, like it was yesterday.

  125. 125.

    Chad N Freude

    @freelancer: I’m certain that he is not the genuine, original Brick Head Bill. This guy’s stuff is funny (to me, anyway). I have accused him of actually being DougJ, who many eons ago used to post stuff like that. DougJ has not denied it, which is clear proof that he really is BOB. Anyway, it would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  126. 126.

    Leelee for Obama

    @General Winfield Stuck: I guess you had to be there! I graduated in ’69. We weren’t allowed to just have those numbers on our yearbooks, tassel charms, or class trip memorabilia. Tight-asses!

    I can entirely understand your not finding it amusing, however. It was such a stupid way to decide who went and who stayed home. That’s why I was glad they ended the draft, because it was so badly done, in all the Vietnam iterations. Now, it’s getting more and more obvious that a draft that was handled right would keep us from these foreign adventures, unless they were really necessary. It could be implemented only if a war was contemplated. Skin in the game focuses the mind, I think.

  133. 133.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @Leelee for Obama:

    I have always supported a draft, at least after I became old enough to have any sense. There is the reason that when we go to war, we all go to war, or none of us do. But there is also the educational factor for young people to not take so many things for granted. I’m sure that will send some slings and arrows my way.

  134. 134.

    calipygian

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I too support a draft in principle, for pretty much the same reasons.

    However, I couldn’t imagine trying to lead people who don’t want to be there and didn’t want to be led.

  135. 135.

    Chad N Freude

    This showed up as a Google ad at the top of BJ.

    We will also explore common-sense Republican alternatives and explain why they will give the American people the health care reform they need and deserve.
    . . .
    Our first online town hall event was a tremendous success, and we encourage you to watch each of the segments below as they become available. With your help we can defeat this bill, and instead pass a responsible Republican alternative.

    None of the segments are links, apparently they never became available.

  136. 136.

    Leelee for Obama

    @Chad N Freude: I like MikeJ’s idea-if you support the war-you go.

    But seriously, if a war is to be fought because there is no choice, then it’s WW2 draft. The fact that BushCo et al kept saying that this GWOT was existential, but we could fight it on the cheap, manpower-wise, not money-wise, has always proven that they knew they were full of shit. Everybody able-bodied goes, or serves here in the capacity they can if they are not quite so able-bodied. Make the war mean something to a society, so it’s not so easy to send other Mother’s sons to die. Nobody gets to have “other priorities” until it’s over, over there!

  137. 137.

    General Winfield Stuck

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    The medical deferments and making sure they are not abused by the wealthy and connected to get their kids exempt would be the toughest to keep honest imo.

  140. 140.

    eemom

    Barney Frank RAWKS:

    WASHINGTON — Democratic Rep. Barney Frank took a dig Friday at the Republican lawmaker who organized a protest by conservatives against health care legislation.
    Frank, a Massachusetts liberal, told an audience: “Some of the people (at the rally) that wanted to engage me in conversation appeared to have been the losers in the ‘Are you smarter than Michele Bachmann contest?’.”
    Rep. Bachmann, R-Minn., had organized Thursday’s rally attended by thousands of conservatives critical of the Democrats’ health care plan. Her spokeswoman did not respond to requests for comment. Frank, who recently compared arguing with an angry voter to conversing with a dining room table, said this week’s protest was like being trapped inside a furniture warehouse.

  141. 141.

    Leelee for Obama

    @WereBear: Actually, the draft in Britain during WW1 was instituted because too many of the upper classes had volunteered and died, and the Mandarins wanted to protect their class. Lots of men volunteered during WW2, only later was a draft instituted. I remember seeing a newsreel of Mrs. Roosevelt saying that Franklin would never expect anyone to send their sons to war if his didn’t go, too. They all served.

  142. 142.

    Elie

    General @ 133 and Calypigian @ 134

    I your two comments, we have an incredibly complex issue laid out into its two most compelling poles..

    The need for this horrible decision to be spread out most fairly and also the need to have those who are involved to execute competently and with focus…

    We do not have a culture like the ancient spartans nor are we pacifists. Most of the decisions for war now are rarely about protecting ourselves in a direct way — more about protecting our interests — some sort of risk analysis-ee thing — hard to think your loved one or you will die for it…

    I tell you what… I dont mean to minimize these choices or battles, but there are a lot of less traditional battles to be fought for clean water, to safequard our oceans and to give us all access to health care and safety.. I want to focus on those wars, those battles and those victories for a change.
    Dont know if we will be able, but that is what I would like

  143. 143.

    WereBear

    @Leelee for Obama: Well, yes, for many generation in Britain it was expected for well off young men to buy a commission and become an officer. The Reason Why implied that such a practice led to the Charge of the Light Brigade, among other idiocies.

    I was thinking more contemporaneously. I know a lot of people who joined because they wanted an education or a trade and this was the only way open to them to do so. This is not the kind of trade-off the well off have to make, whatever their inclinations.

  144. 144.

    Chad N Freude

    @Seebach: @Seebach: I just watched it. My takeaways:
    1. Rockefeller was a Communist.
    2. Either the prophet Isaiah was a Communist or the USSR really liked the Bible a lot.
    3. “Progressives” of the 21st century are just like the Commies of the 1930s.
    4. Public art brainwashes people.
    5. Public art is not noticed by people.
    6. It is necessary for Right-thinking people like Beck to call attention to public art so that the public will notice it.
    7. Beck’s logic makes pretzels look like breadsticks.

  148. 148.

    Leelee for Obama

    @WereBear: I know what the reasons are today-I think I was trying to point out that at one time, the wealthy and connected felt it was their duty to serve. To whom much is given, much is expected. I think we’ve lost that, and that we need it back. In a similar vein, I think the old-fashioned idea that families lived together, multi-generations, built a nation. Now, that’s very much out of fashion, and I think we’ve lost something there as well. If there wasn’t such a expectation of being “on your own” ASAP, young people would take the time to save for the future. They’d learn about sacrifice, and also joy. One of the reasons that people survived the Depression was that families lived together, they made room, they made do, they shared what they had, and they mostly made it through.

  149. 149.

    The Populist

    Well, don’t forget that Obama used this crazy Fort Hood medic to advise on his transition (rolls eyes).

    God, what is with these wimps? They cried hard when the left protested Bush’s Supreme Court backed “victory” in 2000, cried harder when the left questioned the wisdom of invading Iraq (support the President), cried even more when France didn’t support the invasion (Freedom Fries anybody) and cried a river when Obama actually WON.

    So basically the wimpy right got their panties all twisted when Bush got called out for his bullshit and they attack Obama with some lame meme that the left did it worse to Bush (right).

    Nobody ever threatened to KILL Bush (prove it dupes). Impeachment was brought up ONLY because of the lies that got us into Iraq.

    May I also remind the lame-o’s on the right that attacking Obama for his heartfelt comments yesterday on the Ft Hood attack was low. They could CARE LESS for the injured and dead because it’s all about criticizing Obama.

    I made the mistake of going into a Fox chatroom. O’Reilly LOVES to talk about the hate on lefty blogs (sure, Bill – they do hate you poor schmoe) yet every other post was “it’s BHO’s fault”, his speech sucks, liar in chief, etc. blah blah blah.

    Sad point of rebuttal? Look at Bush’s statements during 9/11? Where the fuck was he? He was flying around and hiding like a little baby. Where was Cheney? Where was Condi? Where was Powell? They were nowhere to be found while the attacks kept happening.

    You want to lecture us about Obama, right? Fine, do so with facts and be ready to accept that your treasured little buddy Bush was an abysmal failure.

    Right now, 10% of this country (most likely more) are paying the price for Bush economic policies (or lack thereof). If you are an idiot, believe the meme this is all his fault. The right had control of congress for a fucking decade dammit. A DECADE. You idiots (Calling Jonah Goldberg) want to get power back? Here’s a tip: Come up with legit plans, stop making lame platitudes about rigged “free markets” and show us how you’d lead. You can’t. You had a chance and FAILED.

    Clowns.

  150. 150.

    PurpleGirl

    Son of family friend had a high lottery number… however, he had been born in Italy and still had his Italian citizenship. The family was stunned when he received papers from Italy ordering for him to report for service in the Italian army. A lot of fast paperwork to get him out of it.

  151. 151.

    Leelee for Obama

    @Chad N Freude: No, because a lottery lets some not serve at all. I think everybody should have to, if a war is “existential”. And, in this day and age, That’s the only kinds of war that should be fought. Smedley Butler told the truth about war being a racket. We shouldn’t fight wars over resources or territory or politics. Wars should be fought because it’s the end of the world as we know it. And then, everybody’s in.

  152. 152.

    ilsita

    Sorry for the non sequitur post, but I was just on webpagesthatsuck, and found this daily sucker:

    http://www.georgehutchins.com/

    It’s really… really something. I had to share it. I have been off the grid for a couple of months, so maybe everyone on earth has seen it and laughed already.

  154. 154.

    Leelee for Obama

    @PurpleGirl: Yeah, I had a sewing customer who was born in France. You can’t give up French citizenship, so he had to serve in the French Army. There was an French-born American who had to serve during the Algerian War. He wrote a book about it. That’s part of what “The Battle of Algiers” was based on, IIRC.

  159. 159.

    The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

    Re: Guy Fawkes Day.

    I think that to the <.001% of the teabaggers who know what it means, never mind when it is, blowing up the executive and both houses of the legislature under orders from the leader of your religion sounds like a good idea. So the insult is kinda shooting on by.

  160. 160.

    Chad N Freude

    @Leelee for Obama: I think some people would have to be excused for good reason, health, for example. A lottery, with no way for a a member of a privileged group to evade it, would spread the pain. (Yes, I know how likely that is.)

    And if we don’t fight wars over resources or territory or politics, why, we wouldn’t have any wars! We could conceivably be attacked by a nation-state, which would require aggressive defensive measures — like trying to prevent the enemy state from continuing to produce weapons — somewhat short of the end of the world as we know it. If North Korea somehow managed to launch a real military attack, I don’t think we’d be in much danger of subjugation, but we’d sure as hell want to take out their warmaking capability.

    I have to go, will check back later to put out the flames.

  163. 163.

    Leelee for Obama

    @Chad N Freude: No flames from me. You make a good point about North Korea getting their freak on, but I think something like that could be contained pretty quickly by reminding them that, while they do have a few nuclear weapons, ours are bigger, better and more numerous. Kim might not care that his people are dying, but I think he’d worry about a ballistic missile in his shorts. I’m not trying to be cute here-I don’t see him putting himself in real danger of paying for his megalomania. Most everything else can be bought and bargained for.

    On the deferment situation-really poor health is one thing-and even some of them could answer phones and push paper. I know the lottery was meant to make it more fair, but I think it was the carnival quality of it that made me a little queasy.

  166. 166.

    dfd

    @ilsita: I just told him he was a bigot and a lunatic. That website is something to behold. The unsubtle racism, the homophobia, and the color palette all combine to form a truly hideous website. I especially like his mini campaign posters that feature Teddy Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, and Jesse Helms.

  168. 168.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    @Cain:

    When I saw the interview with Michelle, the first thing I thought when I heard her say “He beats me regularly” was the wingnuts and teabaggers making that the replacement for the Whitey tape…lol!

    Tancredo sure shit his pants when Markos bitch-slapped him over his deferment and his claim to speak for veterans that want vouchers for private insurance instead of the existing VA and related governmental systems. I have disliked Tancredo since the first time I heard him speak and this slam by Markos was picture perfect.

    Apologize? Fuck no!

  169. 169.

    Chuck Butcher

    If you’re going to do a draft then there are no exemptions. If you have 5 brothers in, you still get to be elegible, in a hospital bed, there’s something you can do. You cannot have any exemptions or Rush’s cyst will get you out.

    Now if you’re going to do that, you’d best be ready to handle the jail population that just won’t for their reasons. I would not kill people to support the military – industrial complex and one dictator over another. I don’t have that big a problem about killing, I just insist that my reasons will rule my conduct. I may decide what laws I’ll follow, but I don’t get to avoid the State’s disagreement about it.

    One of the outcomes of a draft is that fuck-ups get to be cannon fodder and they are not usually good soldiers. It is poor military policy, but it is what happens. A question you might want to ask yourself is do you want to be getting shot at with your ass depending on a fuck-up? I want sincerely dedicated people around me.

    It is easier to use a mercenary army for military adventures than it is a citizen army. Hmmm

  170. 170.

    Mike in NC

    What I want to know is what does Cheney think of how Barrack Obama botched his mention of the shooting tragedy in his speech to the Native Americans?

    No question this will be the subject of discussion by Serious People on the Sunday talking heads shows.

  171. 171.

    Leelee for Obama

    @Chuck Butcher: This is all true, Chuck, and I have thought about it a lot and for years.

    Mercenaries are not the right way to go. We see what that is doing in our present wars and it’s not representative of a democracy. To say nothing of the fact that killing for hire is usually prosecutable. And, if it’s more profitable to stay at war than end it, there’s a conflict of interest.

    On the subject of fuck-ups. Yeah, they exist. But, don’t you think, in a true national emergency, there might be fewer? I can’t help but wonder whether the need to wage war only when absolutely necessary might make a difference. And, perhaps, the loyalty among the soldiers would convince some of the possible fuck-ups to change?

    One clear way to prevent unnecessary war is to make it mandatory that the children of the Political leaders go first-that would be a great equalizer.

    Those that would rather go to jail than serve can also serve-on a base with curtailed freedoms for the draft period. They can do office work, hospital work, construction, food service, all kinds of things that are presently contracted out, which is one of the most stupid ideas in history.

  172. 172.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @John Cole

    There are serious questions that need to be answered. How many women were at Obama’s basketball game today? Did he sneak a smoke?

    I want Obama to sneak a smoke and then to have two burly secret service agents hold Jake Tapper down so he can snuff it out on Jake’s tongue.

  174. 174.

    OriGuy

    @The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: I’ve been reading Faith and Treason by Antonia Frasier, about the Gunpowder Plot. The plotters, in her opinion, were not acting under orders of the Church, and were careful not to let their confessors know exactly what they were up to. Some of the Catholics of the era do remind me of today’s wingnuts, except that the Catholics really were oppressed by the government.

    I’ve contemplated storing some firecrackers and setting them off on Guy Fawkes’ Day, to get back at my neighbors for waking me up during Lunar New Year. Two weeks of that shit.

  175. 175.

    Nick

    @calipygian: Not yet, but I’m sure we’ll hear the outrage soon about how awful Kohl’s is for not using Jesus Christ as a capitalist tool to see Wiis in heavily Jewish communities.

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