Jack Kingston, R-Ga, on the Democratic health care bill:
“This bill is a wrecking ball to the entire economy,” said Representative Jack Kingston, Republican of Georgia. “ We need targeted specific reforms to help people who have fallen through the health care cracks.”
Ezra Klein, on the Republican bill unveiled just the other day:
The Republican alternative will have helped 3 million people secure coverage, which is barely keeping up with population growth. Compare that to the Democratic bill, which covers 36 million more people and cuts the uninsured population to 4 percent.
But maybe, you say, the Republican bill does a really good job cutting costs. According to CBO, the GOP’s alternative will shave $68 billion off the deficit in the next 10 years. The Democrats, CBO says, will slice $104 billion off the deficit.
The Democratic bill, in other words, covers 12 times as many people and saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan. And amazingly, the Democratic bill has already been through three committees and a merger process.
Shut up, Rep. Kingston. If all we need to do is help those who have slipped through the cracks, then why the hell couldn’t the Republicans do that in their “alternative?” Why does anyone take these people seriously?
You know, I don’t know if the Democrat’s plan is an objectively good bill, and I have my doubts. I have no idea if it will work as planned and be an objectively good thing in the long run. But at least they are trying.
Nom de Plume
But at least they are trying.
Hey, that’s not a bad campaign slogan for 2010: “The Democrats: At least we tried”.
General Winfield Stuck
repost
I just walked back in and on my teevee is wingnut John Carter Rep, lamenting the HC bill with some half ass proverb about controlling all the man if you control the man’s health. This is rank turd farming in and of itself, but then he went on to whine about THIS government controlling OUR financial system. They have not one shred of honesty or honor. It’s not enough that dems are saving HIS nirvanic theft ring called Wall street, against mine and many libtards grain, the sumbitch doesn’t even have the class to man up and say a simple thank you DFH, you are saving our worthless bacon, again.
asiangrrlMN
This needs to be stated over and over again. The Dems are trying; the Republicans are not. I like the ‘shut up’ , but I would add, “Fuck you with a rusty pitchfork twenty bajillion ways of Sunday, Rep. Kingston.” I am so goddamn tired of this charade.
Ash
I’ve been watching C-SPAN for a couple hours now (I’ve always wanted to know what it would feel like to torture myself. Now I know).
And this is one of the most bizarre pieces of theater I’ve watched in a long time. Even more bizarre than the one-man-show I was once dragged to wherein the guy got naked and painted flowers on himself for an hour whilst reciting Edgar Allen Poe.
Chuck Butcher
Yes, trying is the operative word. The unfortunate part is the qualifiers you could hang on that word.
GambitRF
The Republicans also need to stop bitching about the size of the bill. Its like 24 point font with 3 inch margins. They could have read it in the time they’ve spent bitching about how its impossible to read.
licensed to kill time
And for trying, the Democrats get vilified and compared to Nazis and terrorists, shouted down in the House, and threatened by wild-eyed politicos and angry teabaggers. The world has gone completely insane.
Max
John Lewis was the best on the floor, so far. But, I love him in general.
Anyone else notice the lack of diversity in the GOP. The GOP is white, more white and whitey-white.
I know this bill isn’t perfect, but I’m proud to be a dem today. It’s a big step in the right direction.
Ash
@GambitRF: I like how the weight of the bill goes from 5 pounds to 70 (SEVENTY!) depending on which Rethuglican you ask.
donovong
What we need to do in order to get the Republicans to vote for Healthcare Reform is to simply declare it to be The War On Health. They will fall over each other to vote yes.
I have come to the conclusion that the Repubs that are left simply do not give a shit about anyone other than themselves. Period.
kay
@asiangrrlMN:
They’re Democrats. They could panic at any moment. and all start running in the other direction.
It’s really touch and go, with them. They need soothing music in that room, and cocoa.
shoutingattherain
Republicans: Billions upon billions of dollars to keep us safe. Not one penny to help us be healthy.
I loathe them.
licensed to kill time
@donovong:
Ha! Word. They never met a war they didn’t like, or want to fund.
Napoleon
Especially Kingston one of the duller knifes in the Republican drawer. Remember his hissy fit when Pelosi became Speaker because she was going to make them work 5 day, Monday to Friday work weeks, and Kingston said it would hurt his family life. He must be pretty pissed having to work a Saturday night, like one of the colored folk or DFH you see behind the counter at the Shell station.
Stooleo
So if I’m channeling my inner Eric Erickson properly we need to send Jack Kingston, R-Ga ball gags. We can probably get them at the Tunti Toy Store that is a current advertisement on the upper right hand side.
Scott H
The question in the title of this post is more than appropriate.
Republican Rep. Jim Gerlach (PA-6) tweets: “JimGerlach : @geidas opposition to Pelosi bill is bipartisan.. we can do better and enact true reforms…”
Really, Jimsy? Really? The answer is, of course, no, you can’t, or you would have.
Health care reform we get now can be tweaked later.
slag
It looks like any woman seeking a legally provided abortion will be slipping through the cracks. Maybe Representative Kingston can start his healthcare bill improvements there.
asiangrrlMN
@kay: Yeah, fuck that shit, man. Give then a shot of bourbon and make ’em (wo)man up already.
kay
@asiangrrlMN:
I can’t watch them. I want to tear my hair out.
Was tweeting really a good idea? jesus. They talked enough as it was.
JMY
So, I just read on Oliver Willis’ blog that Dennis Kucinich is “apparently” going to vote against the bill b/c it’s not single payer. Don’t know how true it is, but I wouldn’t put it past him.
Chuck Butcher
They didn’t because it has nothing to do with anything they want to do, other than yap. He wouldn’t even say that if they didn’t see and electoral train roaring down the tracks. Anything that sounds the least reasonable or even concerned coming from these asswipes is political damage control. A GA-R Rep talking about falling-cracks is nothing but damage control provoked by real fear.
kay
@Chuck Butcher:
I think it’s more than that. They’ve tried a lot of what was in the Rep plan. Tort reform, health savings accounts, hell, Medicare Advantage was intended to bring down costs. It worked the other way.
They haven’t offered anything because we’ve been trying their approach for 16 years.
mai naem
I have had CSPAN on in the background most of the day. It seems like everytime I actually turn to watch it, it’s a Texan Republican who is whining about the bill. Texas, the state with the highest uninsured rate in the country. The state with tort reform with limits on “frivolous” lawsuits. WTF is wrong with Texans that they hire theses maroon? And BTW what’s with the repetitive “job killing government takeover of healthcare with 5 point five million jobs lost” mantra.” I have got to have heard that like four hundred times today.
Ash
@JMY: He would.
Ash
They’re not even whining about the bill. Mostly they’re just whining about Mexicans.
Napoleon
@JMY:
I hate that guy. If he cost the Dems the vote I swear I am going to drive the 30 minutes to his district office and scream at someone.
demkat620
@kay: What I would love to see is every Dem that votes against reform lose.
They need to stop listening to Al From, Harold Ford and the rest of the DLC idiots. It is not 1993 and you don’t need to be republican lite. The country knows what the GOP is and they don’t like it.
Stand up, be Democrats, and to quote that master wordsmith of the GOP, Michael Steele, “You’ll win, baby.”
calipygian
You know why Kingston is against the bill? Cuz that motherfucker and Goopers like him have their heads so far up their asses, they don’t need insurance to pay for colonoscopies.
calipygian
Why are we sending Kingston or any other Republican ball gags? They’re Republicans – those closet pervs probably all have plenty of their own.
calipygian
By far, Steve Benen has the best rejoinder to any GOP argument about “socialized medicine”:
Republicans are very, very dumb and they drag the rest of us down with them.
Ailuridae
@JMY:
Progressives often make a lot of noise about challenging Blue Dogs and the like. If Kucinich votes against the House Bill even as a silly protest the DCCC should pull all support out from behind him and formally back a challenge.
bemused
@kay:
Instead of soothing music & cocoa, I think they need something much stronger to make them feel like kicking some Repug ass. They have no idea how their approval ratings would go up if we saw that.
kay
@demkat620:
Sad to say, but that’s a year from now. I don’t think they lose on health care reform. I don’t think this is going to be as potent an as issue as pundits think it is. The effects of any reform are going to take a while. Nothing dramatic is going to happen.
Besides, something really big could happen in the interim. Obama could say something idiotic, he could get caught smoking….
JMY
@Ash
This is why, as much as I appreciate Kucinich, I couldn’t vote for him because he would refuse to accept anything that was not perfect. He never seemed like the one to compromise or look at the bigger picture. The health care bill is not perfect and I didn’t expect it to be perfect and there can and will be changes to it, but this is a big step in reforming a broken system and he wants to throw a hissy fit b/c it’s not want he wants.
dSquib
putting it on mute when a Republican is speaking. I just can’t take it, though I have to watch the thing itself.
It’s amazing though to see the regression of these oafs when they are up against something they cannot think how to really argue against, they just fall back on comforting old standards like authoritarianism, “power grab”, socialism etc etc.
El Cid
Also, the Democratic plan, surprisingly, is far less of an anti-regulatory hack job freeing up insurance companies to f*** everybody over at complete will, allowing such states as, oh, South Carolina or Mississippi or maybe Guam to set the insurance standards for the nation.
So, they would save money by making it worse for all of us. But even better for insurance executives and investors! Yay! No to Obamunism!!!
ds
They aren’t dumb at all. At least not Republican politicians. They know a lot of voters hate blacks, Hispanics, and poor people in general, and since those are the people who have a high uninsured rate and the most difficulties in the health system, they know they can demagogue any decent health reform bill. Welfare. Giveaways. Socialism.
The typical Republican voter would rather die from losing their insurance than have a system where even those people have their insurance guaranteed.
JMY
Again I don’t know how true it is…I read it on Oliver Willis’ blog, but I wouldn’t put it past him, especially the day Pelosi announced the House bill will have a public option and he was on the House floor complaining about the bill.
bago
There are people across the street from the Capitol with hospital gowns and fake bare asses holding signs that talk about how they aren’t covered. Only one teabagger in sight.
geg6
I hate Charlie Rangel, that crook. But he has been very good today. And these Texans need to DIAF. Now. I hate
Texas with a burning hate. My apologies to our Texan BJers and Molly Ivins.
TenguPhule
Whatever falls in your ass doesn’t need any more coverage, Mr. Kingston.
Yutsano
@JMY: It’s the difference between ideology and practicality. If it comes down to Kucinich being the 218th vote (and I’m not sure that’s the calculus right now) and he votes no then he’s choosing to ignore all the other things this bill does just because it’s not single payer. You know who else in the world doesn’t have single payer? Japan. Switzerland. The Netherlands. There are other methods besides Medicare for All. The point is to get SOMETHING done that can be refined and improved over time just like we’ve done with Social Security and Medicare. And I’m saying this as someone who is on a single payer system in the US and has had it for pretty much my entire life.
TenguPhule
They live in Texas. Setting them on fire is redundant.
TenguPhule
‘A thimble full of Scumble makes the Republicans back down,
Republicans back down,
Republicans back down,’
bago
to whoever keeps bitching about Ana Marie Cox, I present the following tweet.
Just Some Fuckhead
Republican Slogan: Stop. Wait. Go back. Too fast. Start over. Backseat driving America.
Jesse
I’m in DC for an academic conference and decided to head over to the FDR memorial. I had been there before, but I wanted to go again this year (and this time, I went alone). I read the inscriptions on the wall. Although many of the inscribed statements are platitudes, they nonetheless appeal and instill pride in the country and FDR. Yet I couldn’t help but think, about nearly every one of the statements: I bet your everyday Republican would sneer and negate this with chest-thumping fury. Go ahead — look at a list of the statements inscribed at the FDR memorial and find one that wouldn’t be derided by today’s GOP.
It made me sad.
kay
@bemused:
I’ll be honest with you, I think it’s just a given that they should pass this. They went this far. After close to a year of debate? I don’t see that they have any choice.
What happens to Democrats if they don’t pass health care reform? They talk about how they didn’t pass health care reform for the next year. How could that possibly, possibly be a good thing for them?
Not to mention, they’ve been through that once already. They know the horror that ensues.
Nellcote
Surely this House “debate” could be turned into a drinking game.
Yutsano
@Nellcote: I went to a drinking school man. ANYTHING can be turned into a drinking game.
dSquib
just the sheer gall of the Repubs to first of all argue that the bill and the process has not been bi-partisan enough, but also the sense of entitlement coming especially from Boustany’s post Obama congress address response, that the health care reform bill should be in fact be driven by Republican “ideas”, and that Democrats have no right to go ahead with the reforms and proposals like a public option, that Obama ran and was elected on.
Davis X. Machina
Kucinich voted against ACES, too. He seems not to care too much what people think when they see his name in with Bachmann, Boehner, etc.
O-Dub’s piece may be behind the news. This time, SFAIK he’s on the reservation, along with Weiner, after some Presidential lovin’ and a personal request.
General Winfield Stuck
@calipygian:
Many of them are dumb. The rest just don’t care,
Nellcote
@kay:
That’s basically what Prez. Obama told them at the pep talk this morning.
demkat620
What time is the vote?
kay
@Napoleon:
This made me laugh, Napoleon. You’re supposed to say how principled he is.
As you know full well.
geg6
kay @45: I think you’re right. It almost assuredly will pass. But I never stop anticipating the congressional Dems’ amazing ability to pull massive fail from the jaws of total victory.
Yutsano
@Davis X. Machina: He must bring some sweet pork home to Cleveland or something cause they sure do love him there. I know he had four challengers in 2008 and still cleared something like 60% of the vote. That’s just off the top of my head so don’t quote me on all that.
It also wouldn’t surprise me if Obama is saying that if things don’t work they can go all in for single payer the next time around just to ensure they get their yes votes in there.
Ash
@Nellcote: Someone on another blog I visit already did this. Took a drink everytime a Republican mentioned tax cuts. She was drunk in 15 minutes.
General Winfield Stuck
I doubt Kucinich would vote no if his vote was the deciding one. His kind of voice for the ideal should be heard. As for the Blue Dogs, I don’t care that much how they vote as long as the bill passes. What pisses me off are the ones that actively promote GOP ideas over liberal ones, and jerkwads like C Streeter bible thumper Bart Stupidpac. Fuck them and the DINO boat they rowed in on.
And then their is Joe Lieberman, in a class of douchebaggery all his own.
JMY
@Yutsano
You’re right. I would enjoy single-payer, but if we don’t have it yet we have a great system from now on that will be improved on through out the years, I will be fine. It’s good to shoot for the stars and try to get as much as you can with this bill, but at some point you have to be realistic about it.
kay
@Nellcote:
Isn’t it sort of obvious? I would think that would be political hell.
“We failed. Again.”
They may as well go home if they blow this.
eemom
All the blathering is accomplishing nothing. They’re just saying the same things over and over, and it’s ludicrous to call this a “debate.”
Not one of the thunderous words being uttered is going to have any impact on anyone or anything. They really ought to just STFU and vote.
General Winfield Stuck
@demkat620:
Earlier it was to be at around 6pm EST. But the theater this morning may have delayed it some. But it won’t happen until Pelosi is certain she has at least 218 votes. Doubt that’s a problem but who knows for sure.
dSquib
Kucinich’s single-payer state option amendment was taken out, was it not?
To be fair to him, he probably thinks this is the closest we have come to real health care reform and it’s an opportunity that may not come up again for a while even if/especially if the bill does not live up to the promise. So… we really do want to get it right. If he believes the bill is nothing but a sell out to the insurance companies providing minimal coverage and cost control, then I can’t blame him.
That said I don’t really see him voting nay as a tie breaker.
tomjones
The Republican bill definitely sucks, but Ezra isn’t really fair on this score:
The Dems’ bill reduces the deficit by raising more revenue through taxation than it expends on subsidies, etc.
The Repubs’ bill, on the other hand, reduces the deficit strictly by cutting costs. On the question of finances, Repubs win.
But they lose on every other measure.
geg6
Gah! “Power grab!” “Start over!” “We can do better!” “Skeery bureaucrats!” “Government takeover!” These people suck. Same old tune, every fucking day for every fucking thing.
geg6
And you go, George Miller! White boy got passion.
gwangung
Meh. I don’t think that’s necessarily the way to look at it. If it raises taxes in the right areas and reduces asset disparity, the Dems might win by keeping a more balanced flow through the economy.
Napoleon
@JMY:
What will make @kay:
You know if I was in Congress there is a decent chance that I would vote against bill if it didn’t his certain marks, but I am still practical. If Dennis would vote against it because it is not single payer, even though the last whip count I saw in the house showed they still don’t have the votes for the water down POS that is on the floor, they he is living in la la land.
By the way I use to think he was principled but no longer do. He was always a solid anti-abortion Democrat, but the second he ran for President that went out the window. He is just an egotistical preening show horse who likes to hear himself talk, no different the someone like Lieberman or Baucus.
By the way the Cleveland Plain Dealer has a story where the guy who runs the states largest non-profit insurer which is located in Cleveland basically says they can accept a public option and reform is needed (and yes I did cancel the paper, wrote them a nasty letter and did not pay my renewal but they keep delivering it). So if Dennis votes against it I think it will make him look particularly bad.
Yutsano
@tomjones: The Dems’ bill reduces the deficit by raising more revenue through taxation than it expends on subsidies, etc.
Why is this such a bad thing?
Napoleon
WTF happened to the intro to my post at 67? It was a response to Kay
JMY
@dSquib
I can agree with that. But I was always of the opinion that it would be better to start this way and have something that was good (not perfect) and potentially effective at reforming our broken system, that could eventually lead to a single-payer system. I’m also of the opinion that a single-payer bill would have been DOA, not that that should stop him from trying. I hope he wouldn’t do something that dumb and vote against it. Let’s get this thing passed and as time goes by, try to perfect it. There’s so many laws that were good but not perfect and later improved over the years.
RSA
But the opportunity to do political damage to Obama is priceless.
slag
@Nellcote: I loved how they needed that pep talk consisting of “People want you to just do something…Republicans will attack you anyway…”. If he didn’t start every sentence with “Listen up, dumbasses”, then he was probably thinking it. You gotta wonder if he had to go on and explain to them that the sky is blue and Elvis is dead.
LD50
So… raising revenues to cover money spent is a bad thing now. It’s better to cut revenues and accomplish less. Gotcha.
demkat620
Hey, isn’t that Donna Edwards with the gavel?
Rob Andrews is doing a great job. And there’s my rep, Admiral Joe Sestak, a definite yes vote.
tomjones
@Yutsano: I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, I’m just saying that it’s not really accurate to say that the Dems’ bill “cuts more costs” than the Repubs’ bill.
It would be more accurate to say that the Dems’ bill reduces the deficit by more than the Repubs’ bill, but that is obviously going to be the outcome when one side raises more in taxes than it spends.
Just for the sake of clarity.
TenguPhule
If by cutting costs you mean they dream of magical ponies, then yes.
eemom
@Napoleon:
blasphemy, sir! Every good “progressive” blogobot knows that Kucinich is the One True God…….and that if we’d nominated him instead of Obama……..well, we might be living under a McCain/Palin mushroom cloud right now……..but at least we would be PURE.
Mark S.
@Ash:
That’s asking for alcohol poisoning.
JMY
@slag
O-Dub is a bigger man than me because I would be calling people all sorts of dumb asses (Blue Dogs).
tomjones
@LD50: Reading comprehension fail, I’m guessing?
No, it’s obviously necessary to raise revenue for the Dems to finance the subsidies and expansion of Medicaid, etc. (I prefer the Senate Finance approach, but YMMV).
I just think we should crow too loudly about “reducing the deficit through cutting costs!!!!!”
Cuz that’s not really what’s happening. And there are enough other important things to crow about.
tomjones
@eemom: lol!
I still have my ‘Kucinich 2004’ tee. The change in my approach to wearing it is really a delightful demonstration of the evolution of my political views.
In 2004, I was a DFH, bitter about being mobilized for Operation Iraqi Freedom, wondering if I should renew my subscription to The Nation (having issues of The Nation delivered to a military base an underhanded sort of protest).
Now, I wear it ironically. I guess that makes me more a Dirty Fucking Hipster. ;)
Just Some Fuckhead
Can I just say tuna soup isn’t nearly as delicious as it sounds?
demkat620
Boy, watching this GOP clown car repeating the “jobs, jobs, jobs” mantra, I am fascinated.
What are they going to say when Pelosi rolls out a jobs bill next week?
Yutsano
@demkat620: Please let there be one on deck please let there be one on deck please let there be one on deck!
tomjones
@JMY: Shhhhhhhhhh!
The first rule of Public Option as Single Payer Trojan Horse is that you don’t talk about Public Option as Single Payer Trojan Horse. :)
R-Jud
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww.
slag
@JMY: Yeah. I’m pretty sure the ability to refrain from calling people dumbasses on a regular basis is an absolute requirement for becoming president. I don’t know how a normal human could do it, personally.
Napoleon
@Just Some Fuckhead:
You should have made corn chowder like I am making right now – mmm good
Comrade Luke
@tomjones:
I don’t think we should talk about reducing the deficit with this to begin with. What’s sorely missing in this country is a discussion around what we’re willing to sacrifice in order to achieve something meaningful. Instead, avoiding deficits is the only thing that is apparently sacrosanct (though only when trying to pass legislation that doesn’t help the rich or the military. You want money to fight a war? Where do I sign!)
FWIW, I think Digby has the quote of the day:
Comrade Luke
@R-Jud:
Probably needs more mayo…
drillfork
@Chuck Butcher:
OK, I’ll play:
The Dems are trying… while staying within the overarching framework of pleasing their corporate masters.
slag
@Just Some Fuckhead: Then it must have been absolutely horrible because it doesn’t sound delicious at all.
JMY
@slag
So I guess Rahm could never be President then, lol.
R-Jud
@Comrade Luke: That only makes it worse: Canned tuna, mayo, and baked beans are my culinary bugbears. I get nauseated just thinking about them.
geg6
Tuna soup sounds horrible. And the GOPers suck. That is all.
Yutsano
@R-Jud: Mayonnaise is probably one of the most disgusting culinary creations ever. To think it was created for the celebration of a returning general only somehow makes it worse.
Just Some Fuckhead
I wasn’t serious. I’m making Brussels sprout soup. I was teasing the kids I was making tuna soup and they were projectile vomiting everywhere.
bemused
@bago:
I love that.
Svensker
@Comrade Luke:
Akkkkkkkk.
valdivia
mexican tortilla soup with tuna. Yum!
and republicans are dumbasses.
geg6
JSF @97: Well, that’s good. And you got such entertainment from it! Brussels sprout soup, though? They aren’t projectile vomiting over THAT? Personally, I like ’em roasted.
demkat620
@Yutsano: Yeah, I would do one of those and a small business assistance bill.
Make them choke on every word they have thrown around this week.
Yutsano
@valdivia: Hey you just reminded me I bought a whole chicken at the store yesterday. Now just gotta think of what to do with it now. Could do a soup like that possibly…
jcricket
Look, this bill is insanely far from perfect, but it’s good in a couple of really important ways
1) The 8-9 reforms (no more rescission, pre-existing condition clauses, etc.) that take place immediately. Real people are helped by this – now. Like now. Like yesterday.
2) Subsidies for coverage (which can be expanded later) – this can be spun as Democrats trying to help people (b/c that’s what it is). This is like Medicare Part D – and I don’t care if it’s “buying votes”.
3) Public option (no matter how limited). If our capitalist overlords keep doing what they’re doing (more part-time/temp workers, dropping health coverage, more self-employed people) more and more people will be de-facto eligible for the public option/exchanges – without a single legislative change.
4) Republicans voting unanimously against this. Unless Democrats are idiots, #4 will work for us both in the long-term (see Social Security, Medicare, Civil Rights Act) – the pundits might not get it, but people aren’t dumb. Major initiatives like this that are opposed by one political party can doom that party to a long time in the wilderness nationally.
Mark my words – the experience will be just like MASS with universal healthcare. First you pass it, then everyone realizes how much they like it, then you can make cost or other systemic reforms (fee for service -> capitation). Even the people and doctors that feared it now love it.
Trust me, this will be as successful as Medicare (which didn’t grow into its present form for like 15 years after it was first passed). And if Democrats are even the teensiest bit smart this issue alone will reap dividends for decades.
General Winfield Stuck
Every now and then, through all the hate, Malkin hits the ideological nail on it’s head.
This what it all boils down to at least in moral philosophy between her ilk and ours. Should receiving health care be a right (to live) or a priviledge for some. All the economic reasons cloud this chasm of thought between left and right on this and other social issues.
Just Some Fuckhead
@geg6: I kinda sold the idea of Brussels sprout soup by contrasting it with tuna soup.
bemused
I told a friend earlier today to watch cspan when the R’s were screaming “I object”. She called me back to ask if I was trying to kill her, she could only watch 5 minutes. She had many unprintable suggestions for the R’s.@kay:
Yes, what does happen to the Dems if they don’t pass health reform…not going to be a pretty future for them or us.
The Saff
@geg6:
Isn’t that the truth? Being a Democrat must be the reason I have all this gray hair.
valdivia
@Yutsano:
yep. The recipe I have is in Spanish. But you could something like a mexican soup with the chicken. Or maybe a nice chicken and rice with tons of cilantro.
tomjones
@jcricket: That comment was full of WIN. /signed
Yutsano
@jcricket: 1) The 8-9 reforms (no more rescission, pre-existing condition clauses, etc.) that take place immediately. Real people are helped by this – now. Like now. Like yesterday.
This. Right here is what the health care industry should be scared out of their wits about. They are threatening to raise their rates over this, and that will doom them. They will be shown to be the useless parasitic charlatans they are and after the subsidies etc kick in and costs don’t come down they’re gonna have to answer for it. And they won’t like what will be the next logical step: banning profit from health insurers. Their gravy train is eventually going to end, they just are trying to forestall it and get as rich as possible beforehand.
General Winfield Stuck
Very true. But passage of some decent health care reform at this point in time is as politically existential to dems as it is to wingers. Probly more so. Focuses the mind of even the most scatterbrained libtard.
The Dangerman
I highly doubt it is a “perfect bill”, but it is likely a “good bill” in that it moves the ball down the field (perhaps to Single Payer in the end). Excluding tax cuts for the very wealthy or a war against people that are sitting on top of OUR OIL, everything in this country happens incrementally. It is practically built into the system.
I have two wishes tonight: Not a single Republican votes in favor of the bill (hey, this is a low hurdle wish) and the bill passes with exactly 218 votes … with the 218th and last vote being the bit of theater of it being Owens from NY-23 that puts it over with a few seconds to go. That would be one last big “fuck you” to the Teabaggers.
The Saff
mcjoan over at DailyKos sez
Yutsano
@The Dangerman: I have two wishes tonight: Not a single Republican votes in favor of the bill (hey, this is a low hurdle wish) and the bill passes with exactly 218 votes … with the 218th and last vote being the bit of theater of it being Owens from NY-23 that puts it over with a few seconds to go. That would be one last big “fuck you” to the Teabaggers.
First wish granted (like it was in any doubt there!).
The second one would be sweet, but I could see somehow maybe Nancy or someone up higher the leadership food chain doing so. Honestly I hope every single Blue Dog holds their vote until we get to 218 then they can go do whatever the fuck they want.
jeffreyw
@Yutsano: dumplins, just because
Leelee for Obama
@tomjones: You, Sir, are a steely-eyed Genius!
I know it’s a secret though, so I’ll be silent.
Chris
I’m sure my local congresscritter McIntyre will be voting against…It is so frustrating…he is in the bluest of blue NC districts…heavily minority (native american AND black and latino) I wonder why he just doesnt change parties…He even voted to impeach Bill..(I have never forgotten that) But he brings home the bacon. I guess I answered my own question..Republican is the kiss of death here.
Yutsano
@jeffreyw: You sir are evil. Now I’m obligated, thanks!
The Dangerman
@Yutsano:
Can one get to 218 without the Blowing/Blew Dogs? If so, what the fuck has been the delay in the vote until now? Git ‘er done (channeling my inner Larry the Cable Guy).
tomjones
@Chris: Primary the SOB!
tomjones
@The Dangerman:
Getting Dennis Kucinich on board.
Shawn in ShowMe
@General Winfield
Shorter Republican party: We’re not happy unless most people are miserable.
demkat620
Dear god, Dan Burton. Doesn’t he have a cat to investigate somewhere? Why is he still in the congress?
demkat620
And now we get the Tan Man, lying on the tv.
Must be nice to just make shit up and never get called on it.
bago
@Just Some Fuckhead: Personally, I would much rather have tuna soup.
Jacob Davies
“I doubt Kucinich would vote no if his vote was the deciding one.”
It’s a very tricky piece of brinkmanship negotiating to get the last few votes in. On the one hand he may move the bill a little to the left by hinting that he might be a yes vote if it got moved that way. On the other hand his unreliable vote may require that they pander more to the right-wing in order to make up one more wavering right-winger, where if he was a reliable yes vote they wouldn’t have to.
This is the trouble with electing anyone willing to say they’re a Democrat as a Democrat. When people see the Democratic Party line on a ballot, they don’t expect to have to inquire closely whether that person thinks universal health care is a good idea. That’s a Democratic Party plank and it ought to be a safe assumption that voting Democrat gets you a representative who broadly follows the Democratic agenda. Otherwise what you’re really offering is a false choice.
Shawn in ShowMe
Have you considered a career in punditry?
Napoleon
@The Dangerman:
Supposedly they are going to do a catch and release like the Republicans would do so it is likely that it will be close to 218. My guess is they would prefer to make it 219 or 220 to make it harder to run against any particular member by saying “his vote was the vote that passed it”.
R-Jud
@Yutsano:
Chicken with 40 cloves of garlic. We did this tonight; I used 5 heads so it was probably more than 40. Whatever, it was delish, as usual. Steamed veggies and crusty bread (on which we spread the lovely garlic cloves).
The Dangerman
@Napoleon:
True, but Owens is probably dog food in 2010 when the Right doesn’t go the route of self-immolation. I say have some fun with it while you can…
jcricket
@Yutsano: Honestly, I doubt we’ll ever become Switzerland (which made all insurers not-for-profit, but has no public plan at all). However, I could see us becoming France (mon dieu!) – which has a public plan covering all basic care, and supplemental private insurance for all the other stuff (like prescription drugs, etc.).
Here’s my logic: For-profit insurers will keep doing what they’re doing. Fewer people will be able to afford them, and companies will keep dumping insurance because the company can’t afford it either. This will make more people eligible for the exchange and the public option will be there. Maybe it will be more expensive than private plans, but I doubt it – for-profit insurers lurv gouging individuals.
There will eventually be 1/2 or more of the population on the public plan + Medicare + Medicaid (or something similar). At some point the private plans won’t have enough subscribers to make the kinds of profits they do now.
At that point I expect private insurers to either go out of business, or switch business models to “supplemental insurance for all and comprehensive insurance for the ultra-well-off” – b/c the other choice (insurance only for the rich).
And at some point, maybe even the rich will tire of getting nothing extra except marketing and we’ll be France.
QED.
But seriously – there are tons of “beachhead” type things in the bill that’ll never be rolled back (that’s one of the reasons I fear the Stupak amendment) – and that’s too our advantage.
As shitty as things are in California right now, in the long-run they’ll elect more Democrats, break the stalemate in their legislature, and raise taxes. There’s no other way out (the populace won’t stand, long-term, for service reductions – and default is unimaginable). Might be a looooong-run kind of thing, but it’ll happen. It’s what happened on Reagan’s watch (tax increases in 83), so it can happen.
El Cid
In comment # 36 I ‘joked’ about the Republican bill de-regulating the insurance industry by ‘allowing’ insurance companies to set up shop in whatever state they prefer, meaning, whichever state will offer the lowest and most anti-patient and pro-profit regulations.
And I ‘joked’ that said states would include Guam.
Well, apparently, it would.
The god-damned fucking Republicans would prefer our insurance companies set up shop in Guam or the Northern Mariana islands with no god-damned federal regulations to speak of, so that they might offer slave labor type benefits to us all.
Fucking America-hating assholes, every fucking one.
Comrade Luke
@jcricket:
I see what you did there.
jcricket
Sorry – my point with the last paragraph is healthcare is the same thing. Ezra Klein made the same point earlier this week. Thinking the feds won’t at some point address health care cost inflation is basically saying, “at some point the entire US will go bankrupt”.
I know that’s a popular sentiment amongst conspiracy nuts, goldbugs, inflation hawks and Paulites – but it ain’t gonna happen.
Luckily for us, we could raise taxes quite a bit (quadruple what Clinton did) and the economy would be just fine. Corporate EPS would go down a teensy bit and a bunch of ultra-ultra rich people would only be ultra-rich – but that’s it.
So healthcare costs will be addressed down the road. Taiwan did the same thing (passed universal single-payer healthcare, then 5-years out addressed costs by adjusting taxes a bit when costs rose slightly higher than expected).
El Cid
So it turns out that the Republican bill would actually let insurance companies set up shop in Guam or the Mariana islands with no federal regulations whatsoever, so, if South Carolina isn’t anti-regulatory and anti-patient and pro-profit enough, maybe the slave laborers in the Northern Mariana islands can be whipped to offer even fewer regulations and what not.
El Cid
Test?
mak
My first attempt at liveblogging (here, CSPAN):
1. “Gubmint takeover of healthcare!!”
2. “Gubmint takeover of healthcare!!”
3. . . . Sanity
4. “The Pelosi Healthcare Bill, Cash for Clunkers, Cap & Trade, Gubmint Takeover of Healthcare!!”
5. . . . Sanity
6. “Pelosi Healthcare Takeover! Insurance Tax, or Go To Jail! 500 billion from Seniors! Pelosi Healthcare Bill!
7. Sane (but mistaken) Repub: Americans are against this, and I am therefore, also, too, like such as.
Jeezus, this is tiresome. What a complete waste of time this shit is. Every last person on the floor comes in convinced and close-minded. No votes are going to change. Fucking vote already.
jcricket
@Comrade Luke: Maybe you can explain it to me. I’m a Democrat, so I only know what Broder tells me.
Yutsano
@R-Jud: Sorry, should have been more specific. It’s a whole roasted chicken already cooked. Doesn’t rule out the dumplings but still precludes the 40 cloves idea (as fantastic as that sounds!). Still mulling over options in my head.
El Cid
I don’t know why my comments are vanishing.
*********************
The Republicans’ bill would not only let insurance companies cross state lines to find whatever the lowest and most anti-patient regulations are offered in the hungriest state.
Those states would include Guam, the Northern Mariana islands, etc.
Google for the link, I can’t paste it without getting vanished.
demkat620
Fuck Bart Stupak.
Assclown.
Comrade Luke
@jcricket: I agree with what you’re saying, I just haven’t seen anything indicating that the Democrats are anything but politically tone deaf.
Just having some fun.
jeffreyw
@Yutsano: Already cooked? Hmm…Oh! I know!
General Winfield Stuck
or
Buck Fart Stupak
Leelee for Obama
@General Winfield Stuck: Thank you, General. This made me chuckle out load.
BTW-Max Cleland is on BookTV right now-talking about his book. Should be good. C-Span 2.
reid
I remember Jack Kingston going on and on about how great tuna and buckfart soup is on a Bill Maher episode. How dumb is that?
Xenos
@Yutsano:
Once the right to recission is gone, the insurance companies are no longer issuing contracts. Once the right to exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions is gone the insurance companies are no longer underwriting.
Whatever they will be, it will not be insurance companies. Just financial services companies with 95% of their profit margin made illegal. We won’t need to institute single payer – it will evolve quite naturally as the for-profit insurers shut down and the non-profits and the state subsidized plans eventually merge.
All the other issues about public options and so on are red herrings. But it is all in good fun because this is going to exhaust and demoralize the GOP quite completely.
Yutsano
@Xenos: So complaining about the public option was just a matter of stopping health care reform period. They thought that paranoia about anything soshulist would stop it all. They gambled and they’re losing.
ds
People worried about whether the reform will “work” or whether it goes far enough are missing a big point.
Right now there’s no right to insurance in the United States. Unless you’re in a category that’s covered by Medicare or Medicaid, it’s completely up to the whims of private insurance companies and your employer whether you can get coverage.
It’s true that the bills being discussed are pretty flawed. They don’t go far enough in controlling costs. They won’t lead to universal coverage. They won’t fix all the problems in the health care system.
But they all establish a right to insurance at a uniform price, no matter what your medical history is. Once you establish this right, it will be very difficult for anyone to take it away.
And once be excluded from the insurance market anymore, it would increase political pressure to control costs and promote preventative treatment for everyone, so over time the flaws in the bill will be rectified. This is what is already happening in Massachusetts.
ds
And once no one can be*
par4
This bill is a turd. The Dems are trying alright,to lose the next election. Obama has been the biggest bait and switch I’ve ever seen and I wonder about the reasoning of people still supporting him.
Yutsano
@par4: I CALL SPOOF! I CALL SPOOF! Not a particularly good one at that. Your troll-fu needs much work young Padawan.
Xenos
@par4: I agree it is not a very good bill. But it does not need to be a very good bill.
And since when was Obama some kind of liberal god? The only people who think he is considered to be a liberal are republicans, who do not understand the dynamics within the democratic party.
licensed to kill time
why do i have to submit a comment to make the reply arrow show up? why oh why?