Not sure what is in the works today on the show.
The morning bobbleheads should be entertaining. Even money that Mark Halperin or someone else claims the vote yesterday in the House is bad news for Democrats.
Reader Interactions
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ChrisB
Just heard Rep. Cao (R-LA but for how long?) on CNN.
A well-spoken, reasonable sounding guy. The contrast with all the other Republicans was striking.
And apparently no bags of cash in his freezer.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Do expect full discussion – complete with fapping noises – of Cao’s vote, the effect it might have on his career, and how this is actually bad news for Democrats.
Don’t expect any mention of the toxic fucktardness his vote has unleashed, because mentioning racism is racist.
El Cid
Today’s pop Establishmentarian theme on idiot talky time TV will be “Yeah, but everyone knew the health care plan would pass in the House, but how can the Democrats pass such a crazy unpopular left wing bill through the much more conservative Senate where they must have 60 / 70 / 850 votes…”
robertdsc-PowerBook & 27 titles
He voted for the Stupak fuckup. No, thanks.
I wonder how President McCain will greet last night’s vote. When is he on today?
Pasquinade
Before things get serious….
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/08/carrie-prejeans-mother-saw-the-sex-tape/#ixzz0WH7OrhK7
ChrisB
Meanwhile, John King focused on the narrowness of the vote, with no discussion of how some voted “no” on principle and others voted “no” for political cover, knowing that the bill was going to pass, no discussion of the Stupak amendment, nothing.
Worthless. Or actually worse than worthless.
But par for the course.
Brian J
I’m really curious to see the shape the bill will take once it is done in the Senate. It’s not perfect by any means–I wish there was a more direct way to finance it through something like a financial transaction tax–but if the bill gets improved even slightly, it’ll make me all the more enthusiastic. I’m not particularly fond of making social insurance commitments when don’t have clear means to pay for them, but at the same time, I’m definitely of the mind that it’s more important to pass the bill now and worry about the costs later.
I could easily be wrong about this, but I feel like we’re about to witness history. It’s kind of incredible to think that I’m not even 30, yet I’ve already witnessed two incredible events–one horrendous in 9/11, one incredible and inspiring in Obama’s election–and I might be about to see a third in big move in the right direction.
On an unrelated note, I am pretty sure I saw a cat bigger than Tunch behind Starbucks this morning as I was getting coffee. I didn’t get that close to it, but from where I was standing, this thing was massive. And I wouldn’t worry about its safety, because the businesses in my town are pretty good about being nice to animals. Besides, judging from its size, it isn’t suffering from a lack of food.
donovong
Personally, I am boycotting the talkie shows today. I have a pork butt (don’t even go there!) that has been soaking overnight in dry rub and will be going into the smoker for about 6 hours today.
The end result will be transported to the in-laws for a farewell dinner for my brother-in-law, who is shipping out to Afghanistan tomorrow. Second deployment. And he has been re-trained into bomb detection. Oy.
demkat620
You know who’s not on tv this morning? President John McCain. How the hell did that happen? How will we know what this all means for mavericks if he’s not on tv to tell us?
El Cid
But, if John Mccain’s not gonna be on the talky TV today, will we at least hear from Liz Cheney?
henqiguai
That damned Stupak amendment really does p!ss me off; and I’m not personally affected.
Am I the only one who, upon hearing of the inclusion of that odious constraint, immediately saw the genesis of a new niche insurance product market – privately purchased riders providing women’s health care services ? Sort of like the additional riders to one’s home owner’s insurance for coverage of, say, one’s computer equipment beyond the default damage/theft.
ChrisB
@robertdsc-PowerBook & 27 titles:
I don’t like it either. But the guy’s pretty Catholic so it’s no surprise he voted for it.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16738
Meanwhile, that’s a question I don’t know the answer to: do most private insurance plans cover abortions?
WereBear
@donovong: My best to your BIL. What a tough occasion.
SP
I always thought these things were taped on Saturday, so they wouldn’t be even be able to talk about the vote or debate. Instead I’m sure we’ll hear ad nauseum about Virginia, NJ, and NY-23.
The Grand Panjandrum
Howdie Doodie has Maddow, Bobo, Gillespie, and EJ Dionne on today. Maddow v. Bobo might be interesting.
Went to the Dartmouth – Cornell game yesterday and it was great! Went to double OT with the Big Green prevailing. Then to top it off my beloved Huskers beat the satanic cult known as the Oklahoma Sooners. If the NY Football Giants can beat the Chargers it would top off a good week started by the Yankees capturing their 27th World Series championship.
Brian J
@ChrisB:
According to this helpful link, the answer is yes, the majority of them do.
Seanly
Of course it is bad news for the Democrats! Every red blooded patriot loves the thought that 13% of the GDP is dedicated to healthcare spending.
Ash Can
It’ll be interesting, I’m sure. Since he represents a solidly Dem district, doing things like this could get him re-elected. Whether he’d want to continue to caucus with Republicans, however, is a different story.
ChrisB
@Brian J: Thanks.
The Grand Panjandrum
Hey John your buddy Mike Pence is on Fox News Sunday. That might actually be worth watching just to hear the crazy.
geg6
ChrisB: Most bprivate insurers cover abortion. Stupidpak needs to DIAF, as does Jason Altmire (D-UPMC). I worked to get that Blue Dog mother fucker elected (I had to–he ran against Melissa Hart, Rick Santorum in a dress). Not one cent and not one phone call/door knock for that prick next year. And a sternly worded email, too.
Brian J
@Seanly:
After an unpleasant experience with a doctor yesterday (personal, not medical), I hope that particular motherfucker is taken down a few notches by this plan. Cheap bastard.
GReynoldsCT00
No Lieberman this week? Guess last Sunday was his day…
kommrade reproductive vigor
Fxd.
Even now, Erick the Rotund is searching his Amazonian Amory for the perfect weapon.
WereBear
Haley Barbour should market himself as a weight-loss aid. He makes me sick.
par4
Mark Halperin or someone will be correct.
The Grand Panjandrum
Of all the votes on the HCR bill in the House these are the ones that are the most confusing:
IOW these people voted FOR the amendment to curtail abortion coverage in the bill then voted AGAINST the main bill after sabotaging it. Quintessential ratfucking. Hell even Jim Cooper didn’t do that.
donovong
@WereBear: Thanks, Werebear. I am completely pragmatic about it, but that cannot be said for the family female contingent.
tgeb
Barbour loves withholding funding for education and proposing that we Mississippians would be better off if we taxed hospitals instead of cigarettes.
That said, he did hold shit together during Katrina, despite our grotesque disparity in Federal Aid compared to LA. Less than half of our coastal towns even came back after Katrina.
So Barbour might be a shithead, but at least he can actually devise and implement a plan of action.
General Winfield Stuck
Hardball politics?or maybe Blueball politics on Stupak amendment.
Egads! this just might work.
dSquib
@The Grand Panjandrum: What in the flying fuck? I kinda wish there was a rule saying you have to pledge yourself to vote for a bill if you vote to amend it… then again that could be a problem in other areas. SA-BO-TAGE!
So who else found out that their Dem representative joined Stupak’s sepsis love-in? Sigh.
Brian J
@ChrisB:
Former Jesuit priest, in fact.
BDeevDad
@The Grand Panjandrum: The NYT had a good graphic on those that voted against and how safe their districts were.
Jennifer
If our media contained anyone other than empty-suit bobbleheads, the obvious response to the “squeaker vote” meme that they are sure to begin constructing this morning would be Switzerland. It’s a conservative country, which in 1994 voted for health reform by referendum – with the final vote tally being 50-point-something in favor vs. 49-point-something against. And they now pay a third less for health care than we do.
Of course the simplest answer, obvious to anyone other than the total retards who make up our press and punditry, is that contentious issues typically result in narrow wins or losses. Clearly this is far too obvious to become a part of conventional wisdom.
Mr. Furious
Screw these shows. Go over to TNT and watch the excellent 2005 miniseries, “Into the West.”
valdivia
@Jennifer:
this.
I was sure yesterday that instead of focusing on the fact that it passed they would make it into bad news for dems that is was close. Huh?
WereBear
Me: Brooks is being an asshole.
SO: No, he’s a hemorrhoid. Assholes have a purpose.
bemused
I’m happy about the vote. It’s just one brick chiseled out of the R anti-progress wall but it’s a start to knocking enough bricks out to get through to the other side. Now the Dems can’t let up on ramming that wall so the party of “I object” won’t have any opportunity to patch the hole.
My rep Oberstar voted for the Stupak amendment which didn’t surprise me. He’s Catholic & I haven’t forgotten his vote on the Schaivo mess. He’s been a great rep here on all other issues but doubt he will ever budge on his anti-choice stance.
jwb
@BDeevDad: You can get a pretty good sense from that graphic who Pelosi had in her pocket if she had needed extra votes.
MazeDancer
@donovong: Continuing good thoughts to you and your family. May today bring many happy moments and smiles to accompany your brother-in-law. Sending gratitude for his brave service.
cat48
Every host & guests so far say the Dems are as doomed as doomed can be. We’ll see
cleek
was there really ever much doubt that this would pass the House ?
superking
Of course last night was bad for Democrats! Didn’t they see the election returns this week?!
dSquib
@BDeevDad: So how many of the Dems who voted no have legitimate fears of how their vote might effect the outcome of their next election? Six?
General Winfield Stuck
@Mr. Furious:
I’ll watch Fox News Sunday to watch the wingers grind their teeth, but the rest can suck an egg.
Just Some Fuckhead
@cleek:
None at all. But who would have ever thought it would end up being such a close vote????
/sarcasm
dSquib
I feel Bobo is essential viewing this weekend.
asiangrrlMN
@donovong: Good luck to your BIL. Strong vibes to him and to you entire family.
I have never watched the Sunday morning talkies, and I don’t intend to start now.
jwb
@cat48: And the funny thing is that none of this political infighting really matters much. So long as the Dems pass something resembling health care reform and, more importantly, the economy is in clear recovery, the Dems will do fine in 2010. But of course saying that doesn’t play as well as “doom, doom, doom … this is great news for John McCain” on the TV. It also puts the lie to the fact that most people don’t give a flying rat’s ass about the political game and vote more on whether gods seem pleased or ticked off at the moment.
Just Some Fuckhead
So it turns out Fort Hood shooter, Hasan, had been engaging in anti-American rants and had praised terrorists on occasion. The question going forward is how we distinguish potential mass killers from ordinary conservatives and Republicans.
mcd410x
Anyone go through the list to see which representatives didn’t vote. Looks like Jim Cooper is one …
kay
@jwb:
Media are just fundamentally opposed to health care reform. It’s been like this forever, too. Twenty years they’ve been fighting this. I have no idea why, but if you’ve been watching, it’s true.
Last night was a huge loss for them, but they’ll rally well before the final vote. It’s do or die time.
cat48
Meanwhile, that’s a question I don’t know the answer to: do most private insurance plans cover abortions?
No. Mine, my spouse, my relatives. I checked with 5 families and they all checked and none of them did, unless the pregnancy endangers the mother’s life or health. None of them cover birth control either. It doesn’t matter how many hissy fits are thrown, I don’t see either of these being covered in the health care plan. To those threatening primaries because of the vote, you should check with people you know or call your insurance co. to check. My coverage is thru Fed. Govt. Employees system and there is no abortion unless it endangers health,life. No birth control. I don’t even know if pregnancy is covered under Medicare. It may now, but it did not when it was originally passed.
BDeevDad
@dSquib: i? Isn’t DougJ in Massa’s district?
BDeevDad
The i? was Kucinich?
kay
@mcd410x:
Pelosi is competent. She may have done the “just enough votes” thing for a good reason.
I’m just going to withold judgment, because I think she’s earned that.
jwb
@dSquib: At least five, maybe as many as a dozen. I’m thinking Pelosi must have had about 215 without Stupak—she must have been very close without it or I don’t see the end game playing out the way it did.
gbear
Steve Benen found a great find:
Wonkette found a not-so-great find.
Paul L.
Michael Coren: ‘You hate me? Thanks!’
Such as Kevin Jennings Obama’s safe school czar.
gbear
@kay:
I’m rooting for the latter.
Just Some Fuckhead
Kaine is chewing Michael Steele up on This Week Without David Brinkley.
jwb
@Just Some Fuckhead: “Kaine is chewing Michael Steele up on This Week Without David Brinkley.” I’m sure it’s still good news for Republicans.
ChrisB
@cat48:
I think you mean Medicaid. Medicaid covers the poor, Medicare covers the elderly. I don’t think there’s much need for Medicare to cover pregnancy, at least not yet.
I would think Medicaid must cover Medicaid but I wonder how good the coverage is.
bemused
@General Winfield Stuck:
I’m laughing at the “Closed for business until further notice” pic at the link. It would be pretty entertaining to see some cleverly humorous group like Billionaires for Wealthcare campaign for a nation wide, ‘no reproductive rights-no nookie’ strike. The media just can’t get enough of stories about s-e-x so odds are good they’d air this.
mcd410x
I sit corrected. Cooper was one of two Tennessee Democrats to vote yes, according to the NYT. Three voted no.
kay
@Paul L.:
This gives me so much hope. Paul, because it’s an indication of how completely disconnected conservatives are.
Arne Duncan is a the next villain on the Left, on education policy.
When Jeb Bush gaves him high marks, that should be an indication he’s no flaming liberal.
Missing the real debate completely, again, conservatives decided to focus on the assistant deputy czar, because he’s gay, and because Glenn Beck told you to.
Keep it up. Please. You’re fringe.
valdivia
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Can I haz some details?
WereBear
@Just Some Fuckhead: ‘Tis a thin line indeed.
Ya know, when they slaver over violence, try to top each other in how much they’d like to shoot certain people, and chant that Americans should have the freedom to be impoverished before they die in a preventable manner… I do wonder.
dSquib
Stephanopoulos really trying to push Gen. George Casey to say something reactionary about teh muzzies.
dSquib
OMG baby Maddie hates socialism!
cleek
i’m a bit bummed that my rep voted for Stupak’s nonsense. he’s a good guy, generally. alas. i’ll just assume it’s part of the price of being a Dem in NC.
Just Some Fuckhead
@valdivia: Kaine is very smart and has lots of facts and figures at hand, which he used to show that even though Independents broke for McDonnell in Virginia (57%) and Christie in New Jersey (60%), they also support Obama at 55% so it wasn’t a referendum on the President. He went on to positively gloat about picking up the only two nationalized elections, NY-23 and the one in CA and went on further to say Democrats were five for five this year so far, including two Senate seats, one of which Steele himself caused by pushing Spectre out of the party.
Steele was reduced to angrily waving his arms around and blustering. At one point, he announced Republicans were 18 for 29 in special elections this year but he didn’t provide any details on where those Republican dogcatchers were elected.
Jennifer
@cat48:
The reason your health plan doesn’t cover abortion is because you’re a federal employee. Allowing you this coverage would run afoul of the Hyde Amendment.
Supposedly something like 85% of private plans cover abortion though only something like 45 – 50+ % of women with private insurance have abortion coverage through their policy. Perhaps it’s because many women work either for the government or for small employers who choose plans without the coverage.
slag
I already saw all the shows today. They were all on The Daily Show last week.
tripletee
@cat48:
I wish someone could provide hard figures on this. It’s all well and good to say “most” insurance plans cover abortion, but how many of those plans only cover health & life of the mother? I get the sense that the Stupak amendment, as odious and stupid as it is, won’t materially affect access to abortion in the vast majority of cases. I hope it doesn’t make it into the final bill, but it’s not worth scuttling reform in the name of ideological purity over an essentially meaningless ass-covering provision for anti-choice Dems.
I could be completely wrong, of course – anybody with good links on this, toss ’em up.
JMY
Steele is an embarrassment and a joke. Him being voted as chairman of the RNC was stupid, and for no other reason than because he was black, but I should expect nothing less from the GOP
WereBear
Even the Stupak amendment allow for it in three cases: rape, incest, and endangering the life of the mother.
Which is why I’ve come to completely ignore their bleating about abortions being “murder” and that they are driven by moral considerations.
It’s wrong… except... just doesn’t parse. These “moralists” are full of it.
Just Some Fuckhead
Who cares if abortion is covered? That’s the babydaddy’s responsibility. If ya play yer cards right, ya can actually make money here.
mistersnrub
For some reason, I tuned in to MtP because I wanted to see Haley Barbour, a supposed GOP Presidential candidate, in action. I turned it off after a minute when Gregory quoted a Washington Times story about independents going Republican.
What a total hack.
valdivia
@Just Some Fuckhead:
thanks! I always thought Kaine is underestimated. He can be very good.
Anya
That fucker Childers is not going to be re-elected, he came because of Obama’s waive. Blacks are not going to come out for him on 2010. He can count on that. I will not be sorry to see him leave. What a prick.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@cleek: Dunno, Cleek. My guy (Schuler) wasn’t a surprise, but I thought Kissell (he’s yours, right?) was in a better position. We won’t have anyone in the 11th to the left of Shuler in a mort of years; the best we can do is keep the Taylo’s and the Hendons out. I thought the 8th was coming around, though.
aimai
Cheers to comrade Scrutinizer for “a mort of years.”
aimai
Beeb
@cat48: And therein lies some hope, actually. I haven’t seen the language of the Stupak amendment, so of course I could be completely wrong. But Ezra described it as denying coverage for “elective” abortions. If it doesn’t apply to abortions for health reasons — physical or mental — then it doesn’t actually make a whole lot of difference. If a doctor tells the insurance company there’s a health reason, no sane company is going to deny coverage. It’s a lot cheaper to pay for an abortion than for having a kid. I’m still mad at the House members who voted for it, and particularly the 26 bait-and-switchers, but if it doesn’t apply to “non-elective” abortions, it’s easy enough to evade.
parksideq
@The Grand Panjandrum: Big Red lost? My alma mater fails me again (though we did make it into March Madness last year, so that was fun).
Back on topic…
@kommrade reproductive vigor: Erick the son of Erick will command his Trike Farce to send Rep. Cao tent spikes, since his affirmative vote on HCR is equivalent to voting for FEMA concentration camps. In New Orleans, no less!
The Grand Panjandrum
I love Steele. What’s not to love about this guy? (Shameless blogwhore alert! And make sure to watch both videos.)
Anya
@Just Some Fuckhead: Did Steel say to him “you’re not gonna spoil my juice”, yet?
dSquib
Are we officially a socialist country now? Is anyone keeping an eye on the streets? I’m so ready to start listening to the Threepenny opera to remind myself of how fortunate we are to be rid of our capitalist overlords, and toast my portrait of old Uncle Joseph.
parksideq
@BDeevDad: Wow, Scott Murphy voted against it? I used to live in NY-20 before I moved to the city; I haz a sad nao.
For anyone that can read these situations better than I (meaning: everyone on BJ): what’s the over/under on Stupak being stripped in conference?
Just Some Fuckhead
The cool part of the passage of HCR with an abortion ammendment is in future elections when NARAL backs Republicans for not voting for HR 3962, “a bill that restricts a woman’s access to abortion.” heh.
WereBear
We got a robocall from Murphy saying he would vote for it!
Already sent off a polite, but firm email.
For all the good that does.
Max
Catching up on other LEFT blogs, I was surprised to learn that Obama wrote the Stupak Amendment and forced those Dems to vote for it because he has no courage, or principals, hates women, never cared about HCR, only wants a win, is a disgrace, and generally the.worst.president.ever.
I am officially no longer visiting these blogs. The crazy and the PUMA vibe is too much for me.
I’m all BJ, all the time. With a little Sully thrown in because I like his mental health breaks and Talking Points Memo because they haven’t gone full-Drudge like HuffPo.
Shawn in ShowMe
Two questions
1. I support a woman’s right to an abortion but unless the mother or the baby’s life is in danger, why should taxpayers help pay for it?
2. Does the European insurance model cover unconditional abortions?
dSquib
I saw a dedicated PUMA person on Twitter claim it was bullshit that Obama gets to call Kanye West a jackass, and yet when Joe Wilson correctly (her word) calls Obama a liar, there is a major uproar. Odd, odd, odd. Just how far are some people willing to screw themselves out of spite?
Anya
@Shawn in ShowMe: Canadian model covers it.
parksideq
@Max: Word. I feel like a lot of the blogs are falling into the Kucinich dilemma: they want all or nothing without realizing that sometimes getting something is just fine for the moment, especially when it opens up the door to getting something more later on when it’s more palatable.
And HuffPo is now a parody of itself.
Davis X. Machina
Old stuff.
Today’s official freakout is over how we’re all going to jail because of the mandate. Some of them have the next “Letter from Birmingham Jail” in first draft already, and just need someone to smuggle their laptop out of the joint.
AkaDad
@gbear:
That statement is no longer operable.
jwb
@parksideq: “the Kucinich dilemma”
Except on this particular vote it was actually fine for Kucinich to vote against the bill, so long as he knew his vote was not needed. That’s the difference between blogs going into full “this is the worst thing evah” mode and Kucinich, whom I’m fairly certain would have voted for the bill had his vote been needed. And really, I’m going to withhold final judgment until I see what comes out of conference and which of those “no” Dems end up flipping.
slag
@Shawn in ShowMe: Because it’s in the taxpayer’s interest that women get the best, safest reproductive care they can, that’s why.
The question you should be asking yourself is:
Marc
It’s not quite Halperin, but I did just hear A.B. Stoddard of the Hill newspaper say that the Democrats are divided (TM) and that there’s a conservative majority in the House. I guess that would be the conservative majority that just passed sweeping health care reform legislation.
A.B. Stoddard: the Gloria Borger of MSNBC.
jwb
@AkaDad: “That statement is no longer operable.” Clearly not, after the mighty power of the teabaggers on Tuesday gave the Dems an unexpected victory and the GOP seems to have drawn the lesson that finding ways to put their safe districts into play is actually smart politics.
Just Some Fuckhead
@WereBear:
Horribly misspelled protest signs written in Arabic?
The Raven
Do you have a sister, wife, nieces?
jwb
@Marc: Despite the fact that, as you note, the health care reform actually passed, I love the way that dems voting against the bill simply get lumped into the category of conservative—as if those dems are about to go join the teabag brigade.
JMY
@parksideq:
What the hell happened to HuffPo? I used to read it religiously. Now I can’t stand that website.
Just Some Fuckhead
@jwb:
You must be new to America.
Max
My take is that Arianna is trying to get outrageous to increase her profile, so she is Drudge-ifying the headlines and going on tv with her bull$hit “populism” like that Biden Should Resign nonsense.
Her VC guys must have given her the directive to amp it up.
But, what do I know, I’m an O-bot.
Mayken
@tripletee: A link to the Planned Parenthood discussion of the bill already was tossed out, but here is the money quote:
So yes, most insurance currently does offer abortion coverage. I cannot find the link but I know most of them offer birth control coverage as well.
The Stupak amendment, you can bet your last dollar, if left in place will take away that coverage from women as their employers or (spouses’ employers) opt out of providing health insurance and force them into the exchanges where abortion access is not covered even from PRIVATE plans! And as with all bans such as this, it can be interpreted in such a way that many forms of birth control will no longer be covered either.
I’m sorry, but this was not worth trading for a ONE R vote. Not even a little bit. It had better die a thousand deaths in committee or I will be jumping up an down on Pelosi, Obama and whomever else I need to from here until 2016 to get it repealed.
soonergrunt
So while I was away at drill, HCR passed. Well, I guess I’ll go ahead and re-up since my country is actually starting to show itself to be capable of more than just invading others and fucking over “the least of these, my children. IOW, Actually woth defending. Now if somebody can get me a rifle worth a shit that will be nice too. And one more thing-why the hell can I get 3G on my cell phone in the ass-end of nowhere at Camp Gruber south of Muskogee but not OKC? I mean WTF? Just get HCR through the Senate and get me a decent rifle and get US Cellular to fix my 3G and all will be right for me. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
Violet
@JMY:
No idea what happened, but it isn’t good. I used to visit it every day, but these days I avoid it. Are her antics increasing their traffic? Everyone stops to look at a trainwreck – maybe that’s why she did it.
The Raven
The allowed list of health reasons is very limited: danger to life only. That means, for instance, that even prevention of permanent, severe disability is not covered.
gwangung
Does any of these morons have even an inkling about politics?
Mayken
@Beeb: I think you misunderstand the term “elective.” Elective surgery means at this moment one’s life is not endangered and we can do it at any time really. My friend’s hernia surgery, for instance, was elective. So is termination of a fetus with deformities. So when they say “elective” think “not a case of incest, rape or life of the mother.”
Don’t know where my earlier comment went but I think Ezra is wrong on this. I think it does lead to women being denied some reproductive health care coverage they currently have if it doesn’t die a thousand papercut deaths when it comes time to reconcile the Senate and House versions of the bill.
parksideq
@jwb: Don’t get me wrong, I understand the principle. My question is, if Kucinich was the tiebreaker, would he break in our favor, as you implied? Honestly, I don’t know (though I highly doubt he’d cast the deciding vote against HCR, Kucinich a pretty good congressman), but there are people out there that would have been just fine with him casting a “no” vote and bringing down the bill on principle. And that is something I couldn’t get behind.
At this point, it’s not in the House’s hands; let’s hope Harry Reid has at least as many balls as Pelosi.
parksideq
@JMY: About a year ago an ex-girlfriend told me that HuffPo disgusted her, since it was too “tabloidy”. Man was she prescient.
Basically, Arianna’s trying too hard to be the left’s Drudge. It’s like she’s trying to reach the converse of Peak Wingnut: Peak Moonbat.
Mayken
@Mayken: Awaiting moderation? But I didn’t even say the dreaded s word! ;-)
JMY
@Max:
Those headlines make me laugh because when you read em you start off really pissed, then when you read the article, the headline had nothing to do with the article or it’s incredibly misleading. The “Joe Biden should resign” fiasco was the last straw for me.
burnspbesq
@henqiguai:
Nope. If the insurance companies can find a way to do it profitably, it will happen.
The FerengiThose folks leave no stone unturned in their pursuit of profit.Davis X. Machina
Such riders are required in five states now, but simply are not offered.
veralynn
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
I am in the 8th district. I too thought Kissell would come through, but alas, too little spine. Of course, most of the 8th went for McCain 60%-40% so it really would have been something if he had voted for.
jwb
@parksideq: “if Kucinich was the tiebreaker, would he break in our favor, as you implied?” I don’t think Kucinich is an idiot, so, yes, I’m almost certain that he would break in favor of the bill, and I won’t be surprised if he votes for the bill when it comes back from the Senate. I know there are a lot of people on the left out there who believe this bill to be the worst thing evah. Now, there are things I really don’t like about the bill, but it still seems to me to offer a material improvement.
jwb
@Mayken: WP does not need a reason to place you in moderation. Sometimes it does so just to show that it can.
parksideq
@jwb: Agreed. Now, hopefully Senate douchebags like Joe Lieberman get out of the way and allow a vote on the final bill.
Violet
@Mayken:
Did you say the word for footwear? That’ll do it.
demimondian
@The Raven: Or daughters? Aunts? Uncles? A female mayor of the city? A woman who teaches one of your children?
A female neighbor?
I hate to sound like John Donne here, but, really, this is a “for whom the bell tolls” kind of thing. I’m glad that the bill passed — because if we can get something this good out of conference, we’ll win seats in 2010 instead of losing them, and it may finally become possible for the Dems to build a sufficient pro-choice bloc to get rid of this toxic amendment, but if it fails, then we’re out of luck for a generation. We can improve almost any real health care reform, once it’s enacted, but not *until* it’s enacted.
burnspbesq
@parksideq:
Unfortunately, I think that comes under the heading of “voting the wishes of your constituents.” Every one of those little towns that the economy has left behind has a Catholic church (Whitehall, where my dad grew up, has two!), and every Mass is packed every Sunday.
kay
@tripletee:
I just think it’s really, really important to be accurate. Poor women are on Medicaid, and Medicaid hasn’t paid for abortion since 1977.
S-CHIP doesn’t pay for it either.
“The federal Hyde Amendment, passed in 1977, bans state use of federal Medicaid dollars to pay for abortions unless the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, or the abortion is “necessary to save the life of the woman.” States can use their own funds to cover other medically necessary abortions – usually defined by states as those to protect the physical or mental health of the woman”
I listened to parts of the debate last night and the pro-choice people were incoherent. They were simultaneously arguing that the bill as written excluded federal funding of abortion, while opposing Stupak.
I recognize the distinction the pro-choice reps are making, that it’s not direct funding, but they gotta do better than that on presenting this honestly and accurately.
I’m becoming skeptical of the claims on both sides. I started out extremely skeptical of pro-life claims, so if anything I was biased toward the pro-choice side.
I don’t think making shit up benefits our cause. It’s not about “poor women”. If it were, we’d be talking about Medicaid.
licensed to kill time
I just had to paste this snippet:
linky
Sir Jock Stirrup. That is all.
Leelee for Obama
@soonergrunt: soonergrunt-I love you. I have the headache from hell and you made me laugh so hard, I think it may have decided to leave! I am so glad and proud that you defend us, Sir. I sleep better at night, because of you.
Shell
When TMZ got on board, it was the beginning of the slide.
jwb
@parksideq: You never can tell with Reid, because he really hasn’t shown himself to be a terribly good tactician, but I have to believe that Obama would not have signed off on the public option push if he didn’t believe that it could get through. My gut tells me that Schumer convinced Obama. You also figure that the Liebermann hissy fit was a given and they had to have had a plan in place for that. Since everyone on the Dem side basically ignored the hissy fit, I think that’s even more evidence that that went according to script (or at least wasn’t unexpected). After an initial outburst, I noticed that Bayh shut up pretty damn quickly, so I think they must have had a plan for him as well. Since then, things have been very quiet in the Senate.
TheHatOnMyCat
Pleased as punch that the Thymezone Retirement Bill passed last night. Now, if only the Senate will do its job, I can figure out a way to retire and not have to worry about whether I can get the expensive parts and labor I will need to keep this act on the road and pissing of BJ commenters for many annoying years to come.
Very happy to be a full-on Democrat this morning, and I hope that Republicans and their ilk everywhere are eating their ignorant, foolish livers in anticipation of the continued inexorable, relentless movement toward progressive policy that the country will make in the years to come.
Mr Furious
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Comrade, you in Asheville?
freelancer (itouch)
@Leelee for Obama:
Yes soonergrunt, I concur. I want you on that wall, I need you on that wall. I applaud your service and your insight.
Go Big Red. Also.
If it’s any consolation, I have a hangover that would kill a small dog.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Mr Furious: Sure am. The old part of Haw Creek, near Tunnel Road/240.
parksideq
@jwb: Yeah, I’m hoping that’s how this is going down. To me, Lieberman just wants to mug for attention, but you never know with this bill.
Then again the House passed it with more Republican votes than I expected (ha!), so the Senate may also get cloture and a passed bill, Joe the Senator’s smoke-blowing aside.
Leelee for Obama
@freelancer (itouch): I got the headache w/o the fun of getting sloshed, so you’re better off? That’s how we would have looked at it when I was still snapping whippers while being young!
Ash
@Shawn in ShowMe:
I guess for the same reason that taxpayers help pay, through Medicare, for the right of an old geezer to take a blue pill to help him get a woody so he can fuck his much younger wife? Oh, but she better not be trying to get coverage for birth control! No sireeeee, we can’t be providing that for those whores.
Leelee for Obama
I’m gonna guess his father was frightened by the Canterbury Tales. How in the hell could that man ever lie? What a fantabulous name.
AhabTRuler
Wait a minute, Raphael Palmeiro isn’t a geezer! Why would he suffer from ED?
charles johnson
“It’s wrong… except… just doesn’t parse. These “moralists” are full of it.”
Hmm. Lemme try one. “It’s wrong to shoot someone, except if they’re coming at you with a machete.”
Nope. Parses just fine, thanks.
Nellcote
@Max:
Huff-poo got a new CEO and a new front page editor after the last round of vc money. In fact the main vc guy became the CEO.
Cain
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Clearly, someone should have put him in his place and asked him to find work and hearth outside of the country. If a country takes you on as a refugee, you probably should show some gratitude like other immigrants who are desperate to leave their battered countries and come here. Who the hell has he been talking to to get mindfucked? Even worse, he’s put his own muslim community under the knife with his selfish actions.
cain
Max
@Nellcote: It all makes sense now. Thank you for confirming my suspicions. Ariana is a hack.
charles johnson
“At this point, it’s not in the House’s hands; let’s hope Harry Reid has at least as many balls as Pelosi.”
Ugh. Please turn your brain on. It has nothing to do with how much balls Harry Reid has. The house bill passed with 50.57% of the vote. By contrast, Reid has to get every single Dem/Independent, including retards like Joe Lieberman, to vote for it. A nearly impossible task.
Nellcote
@Cain:
He was born in the US.
Cain
@JMY:
I couldn’t take it anymore, I stopped reading it as well. Too bad. Arianna has moved on to bigger things and into bullshit yank your chain journalism. Headlines don’t match the content, people bitch in the comments but of no avail. Maybe they are low on money or something.
cain
licensed to kill time
@Leelee for Obama: I read the Beeb for news, and frequently snort with laughter at some of the names; gotta start keeping a list (this one goes on first).
Sir Jock Stirrup would make a great handle.
eemom
Ariana a HACK? Say it ain’t so, Joe!
I mean, who’d ever suspect that the ex-wife of a republican gazillionaire who turned Democrat after the divorce and bought a glitzy blog with her settlement loot……..and plays up her supposed Greekdom while still dragging around her ex-hubby’s WASPY-ass surname…….would turn out to be a hypocritical HACK??
(disclosure: I’m Greek, have proudly born my cumbersome Greek last name all my life and after marriage, and can’t stand the twit, in case you hadn’t noticed.)
AND, believe me, she’s totally exaggerating that accent. Too and also.
Max
@eemom:
THANK YOU! Every time I hear that accent, I hit the remote. If Heidi Klum can lose a german accent, and Madonna can gain a british one, AH can dial it back and down an octave.
Cain
@Nellcote:
He was born in the U.S. yes, but his parents were refugees I guess from Jordan (er palestinians from Jordon). You still took an oath when you joined the military to defend and protect your country.. killing its citizen is not one of those things. I’m more sensitive about this being a first generation immigrant. I know what I left behind.
cain
Mr Furious
@Comrade Scrutinizer: West Asheville proper for us. Right around the corner from Westville Pub, the Bakery, etc.
Mr Furious
@Comrade Scrutinizer: West Asheville proper for us. Right around the corner from Westville Pub, the Bakery, etc.
Midnight Marauder
@Max:
Yeah, I’ve been beginning to detect a great deal of hackery in the entire HuffPo operation for quite some time now. I feel as though, as others have noted, there’s been an enormous increase in outrageously sensational headlines that don’t reflect the actual article they link to in any way, shape, or form. The “Joe Biden Should Resign” Brouhaha was a major recent red flag that something was amiss.
The only thing HuffPo has become good for these days is if you want to take a 3 minute cursory glance of all the current BIG STORIES on the “left” side of things. And if George Clooney went to Starbucks this afternoon. Or if you want to see pictures of Sammy Sosa, Electric Buggaloboogaloo.
And Dan Froomkin’s musings. Also.
+3
Midnight Marauder
And Buggaloboogaloo is definitely supposed to be Boogaloo.
I can haz edit feature?
Ash
@Cain:
And then you have the case of a guy who was on CNN yesterday, who WAS an immigrant, a Muslim from Morocco. He enlisted when he was freaking 40 years old because he loves America and was an “indispensable” translator, according to his superiors. So how do they thank him? Oh, but of course! By mocking his heritage and religion and passing along notes that talked about how he’s a goat fucker.
Mr Furious
Stupid WordPress
licensed to kill time
@Midnight Marauder: Edit is a buggaloboogaloo, not a feature.
LoveMonkey
Why does Fareed Zakaria have to turn his show into the Peggy Noonan Hour?
Why would anyone put that whiny, lying bitch on television in the first place? Especially somebody as smart as Fareed?
henqiguai
@The Raven (#104):
Got female family members. But my ‘personally affected’ was ’cause I’m just not physically equipped to ever need the procedure. And as the last part of my response said, if the amendment makes it through, I expect a niche industry beyond what is supposedly already in place of insurance riders to provide a full panoply of female health services (because, damnit, there are still knuckledraggers out there trying to limit, if not outright outlaw, birth control and the rest of those medical services specific to women) and too many insurance companies (or employers) write group policies limiting such things.
henqiguai
@The Raven (#104):
Got female family members. But my ‘personally affected’ was ’cause I’m just not physically equipped to ever need the procedure, “personally”. And as the last part of my response said, if the amendment makes it through, I expect a niche industry beyond what is already in place of insurance riders to provide a full panoply of female health services (because, damnit, there are still knuckledraggers out there trying to limit, if not outright outlaw, birth control and the rest of those medical services specific to women) and too many insurance companies (or employers) write group policies limiting such things.
bago
What the hell? Everyone gets closing remarks on MTP except for Rachel. Then there’s a web extra that has Dionne and Brooks web extra and has him talking about fucking woodstock? What the fucking fuck?
bago
Go go great edit fail.
bago
Goddamn Brooks is a wanker.
freelancer (itouch)
@Max:
I hate her voice, she sounds like Kim Jong il in Team America. When she’s on KO I wanna vomit by way of my ears.
“Exactry Keiffff!”
Svensker
@burnspbesq:
I spent the day yesterday with a group of blue collar Catholic union women yesterday who had just recently retired from their County jobs — they all live in Hudson Co., NJ, which has been union Dem since the beginning. They all have the most amazing health care plans, gold plated doesn’t even cover it. Even tho they were all old line Dems, they were ALL against the health care bill because they were worried it might impact their own health plans negatively and, as Catholics, they were worried that people might use health care for abortions or other “bad” stuff.
bago
Beware of “The Cleveland Show” then.
Steaming Pile
He pulled a Boehlert*. That is all. No heroism here; move along.
*Back in the bad old days before the 2006 election cycle, Upstate New York had a number of “moderate” Republican congressmen, among them one Sherwood Boehlert of the 24th District now represented by Michael Arcuri. What former Rep. Boehlert would do is wait until nearly all the votes were cast (he didn’t invent this practice, but he used to be my congressman), then, if the outcome was no longer in doubt, he would vote his “conscience.” This would make the voters back home very happy, but it wouldn’t affect their lives one iota.
You see, it’s easy to be a friend to organized labor/the working poor/the uninsured/etc. when your party’s agenda is not at stake. I watched the vote, and it is clear that Rep. Cao cast his yea vote after the Democrats have already reached the magic 218 necessary for passage. Under normal circumstances, this incident would have been entirely ignored by his party leadership because this is what is necessary to get him back in the next Congress (New Orleans is, from what I understand, blue), but anyone in the GOP would might have understood what went on here is no longer in charge. The idiots in charge, and having a 100% pure opposition to the health care bill is more important to them than whether they hold Rep. Cao’s district in 2010. So Cao will probably get primaried, the Democrats will kick his ass next November, and the teabaggers will be all, “huh huh huh, we showed that chink, didn’t we?”
Cain
@Ash:
Yeah, that sucks. Every community has kind of gotten that, Catholics, blacks, etc and it sucks. It’s an injustice.
cain
kay
@eemom:
I think there are going to be populist hucksters on the Left and the Right. Glenn Beck got there first, but it’s clearly a growth industry.
When I first read the “Goldman got special treatment for vaccine” story I thought it was odd on it’s face, because County health departments parcel out vaccine, and I would be surprised if they were all in on the Great Wall Street Conspiracy.
They’re not, we find out today. Rage, and clever marketing, trumps truth every day of the week.
freelancer
@Cain:
True, but I have legitimate concerns when tolerance and diversity is diluted to the point that people are forming “Fat Pride” advocacy groups. WTF?!
I’m sorry if this seems insensitive, (and to some extent might rub people the wrong way, and for that I apologize) but my main objection is with the use of language here.
This seems like an allusion to the gay pride movement, yet it seems like a group of people are seeking cover under an umbrella that what they’re going through is innate. That may be the case, but do not argue with me that obesity isn’t at least manageable. I used to be a skinny kid, bean pole, ran Cross Country in High School, and in the past two years that I’ve taken a 40 hours a week sit in an office chair desk job, I’ve gained 15-20 lbs. My pants started feeling tighter and cramped. My self-image started to go to hell, and instead of giving in and buying bigger clothes, I joined my work’s gym and spend 90 minutes a day sprinting my ass off. I now look better. I feel better and I’ve dropped back down to my healthier weight of 190. I still have more to lose, and I know that my body type isn’t everyone else’s and weight can be a sensitive subject which is why I favor anti-discrimination measures on this front, but isn’t the word “pride” a little ridiculous?
I’m kind of sick of seeing people en masse give up and not hold themselves to a same standard I hold myself up to, and I think that fatigue is due to if I give up on that standard, then it’s me acquiescing to the soft bigotry of lower expectations. “Oh they can’t help it, they’re not as smart/skinny/educated/etc”.
And as an aside, for people who are part of “Fat Pride” groups, do they watch The Biggest Loser or see former members of their group who lost weight and regard them, (in their own minds at least) the same as the gay community feels sorry for and angry at the so-called “Ex-Gays”?
/rant
Elie
Chris @ 63
Medicaid definitely covers pregnancy. In fact, about the only people who quality for most Medicaid programs are pregnant women and children. Women get kicked off though after 6 weeks if they have no other categorical coverage (disabled, blind)
Medicare does not cover pregnancy
Betsy
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Ok, everyone who answered this is actually missing the point.
There are lots of good reasons for taxpayers to cover abortions, but they don’t matter, since the Hyde amendment ALREADY prohibits taxpayer money from funding them. For a plan offered on the exchange that was subsidized in any way, it would be the part that an individual pays that would pay for abortion coverage. What the Stupid amendment does is disallow even that. In other words, if you want a health plan that covers the *single most common surgical procedure in the U.S.*, you are no longer entitled to any of assistance that everyone else gets, even though that assistance wouldn’t cover the abortion part anyway.
Elie
Love Monkey @ 159
Completely agree with your take on Fareed Z of having the Peggy Noonan hour! I am giving him a piece of my mind about it too! I used to like his show and was flabbergasted — FRLABBERGASTED that today, the morning after the first bill on health care reform evah, he chose to have a “lets critique the Obama administration” show..
Made me wanna scream…
Tom Q
To pile on Arianna:
Of course she’s an opportunist. She was 100% aligned with Gingrich in the 90s, and cheered on the Clinton impeachment (she even wanted him to resign after his acquittal). And she pushed numerous bogus stories, including one completely made-up claim that Clinton had auctioned off gravesites at Arlington.
Her one asset is an ability to early-catch the scent in the wind. She clearly sensed the country was swinging left, and abandoned the GOPers, becoming just as shrill a voice on the other side of the fence — a David Horowitz in reverse.
For me, her biggest problem (and she’s not alone in it) is she has no knowledge of how politics works. She (and Bill Maher, and lots of others) seem to think if Obama just trash-talks his oponents, we’ll get liberal utopia overnight. The fact that an extraordinarly transformative health care bill is making its was through Congress doesn’t even register with these folk. For them, the only point of the political process is to make them feel triumphant. Obama obviously has his eye on results.
I especially love when these people tell us Obama “needs to be more like Harry Truman”. Do any of these folk understand that, despite (barely) salvaging election in ’48, Harry Truman spent essentially his entire presidency as the most unpopular president of the era, and saw his party crushed in his wake? (All those numbers Bush barely fell beneath last year were ’51-’52 Truman numbers) It’s nice for the Truman family that David McCullough decided to rewite his legacy, but any Democrat who thinks his method is one to emulate marks him a political idiot. Kind of like Arianna Huffington.
Tattoosydney
@Midnight Marauder:
I like your version better.
Xenos
@henqiguai:
Planned Parenthood should go into insurance business, and market a complete coverage program including services to major corporations. While this does not directly serve poor women, they could expand and offer services at a discount.
The Lifers accuse them of being a demonic, superpowerful organization. Might as well go that route, then.