I hate to burden you with more Broder, but I honestly believe that you can hear a civilization — our civilization — crumbling when you read this:
It is evident from the length of this deliberative process and from the flood of leaks that have emerged from Kabul and Washington that the perfect course of action does not exist. Given that reality, the urgent necessity is to make a decision — whether or not it is right.
I believe we should get the hell out of Afghanistan, the sooner the better. And I hope that is the decision that Obama arrives at, the sooner the better.
But to suggest that it is more important to make a quick decision than to make a correct decision, to suggest that an extra few weeks of reporters’ and civil servants’ time is more important than the the next six months of 40,000 American soldiers’ lives…the fact that a journalist can suggest this and still be taken seriously does not bode well for where we are headed as a country.
It’s all part of the cult of the “tough decision”, the “gut decision”. It’s easy to laugh at that. But I just don’t see all of this stupidity ending in anything other than collapse.
Mike G
Shorter Broder —
I need some news to masticate NOW and I don’t care who dies to bring it to me.
Punchy
No win sitchy for the O. If he pulls troops, then he’s cutting and running (remember that cliche?). If he adds more troops, he’s recklessly endangering American lives.
Pretty sure the GOP has market-tested each meme, and is just waiting to release the correct one 2 minz after O makes his decision.
JK
Come on Doug,
Deep down, you love burdening people with David “King of the Pundits” Broder. Fuck Wolf Blitzer and David Gregory.
General Winfield Stuck
Obama is going to send most of the troops, but my guess is also with a change in mission, at least I hope so. Playing a bloody game of whack a mole with the Taliban is insanity in my opinion, and with a kleptocrat central government it is a waste of our blood and treasure. Can’t leave entirely though and let AQ set up shop like before.
Persia
@Punchy: Of course that’s what’s really disgusting about all this; it’s a political win or loss. Not, you know, people’s lives.
slappy
Look — it’s terrible to say, but true: our public discourse will be improved immeasurably when this fuck finally dies. What is he, 70? Can’t be that long now, hopefully.
Morbo
Oh, bullshit. We just have to have President John McCain tell us what it is and you’ll be all too willing to lap whatever he says up like it’s gospel. Right, Broder?
jetan
Remember the old Clinton line? “The voters would rather have someone who is strong and wrong than someone who is weak and right.” Cousin Adolf used to say the same thing up until Stalingrad. But Broder just eats all of this Charge Of the Light Brigade bullshit up.
C’est de la folie.
gwangung
So, obviously, we can’t spend a little time determining the least worst option.
Idiot.
Cat Lady
DougJ: you keep saying hey, don’t want to burden you with the Broder, but enough! it’s a perfectly good Friday night.
Step away from the Broder.
The Times They Are ‘a Changing”
RIP Mary. That is all.
Mr Furious
Yeah, because when the solemn duty to put troops in harm’s way is concerned, who cares if you make the right call? As long as Broder makes his deadlines.
General Winfield Stuck
@Cat Lady:
Un-possible. The Force is too strong.
freelancer
Wow!
Shorter Broder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmAhscZUoak
PeakVT
Shorter DougJ: you are here.
Cat Lady
@General Winfield Stuck:
Why Broder, DougJ, why?!?? He’d be pushing up the daisies if he weren’t nailed to the perch.
Ailuridae
@Punchy:
The political calculus of withdrawing was made less severe when prominent Conservatives like Will, in an effort to paint an Obama the viewed wedded to the idea of an escalation from the campaign, declared Afghanistan hopeless and suggested a withdrawal. That’s all the political cover he needs as what Beltway scribe is going to just come out and say “George Will is an ignorant twit.” George Will is a serious person and said withdrawing made sense.
Also, withdrawing would be *insanely* popular with America as a whole
DougJ
Shorter DougJ: you are here.
Cool picture. Not typical of now an upstate G like me thinks of Thomas Cole, but cool.
Ailuridae
@General Winfield Stuck:
Also Broder is the leftist blogger’s world version of a useful idiot. If you are looking for something to write, Particularly if you are looking for Beltway CW to blast, Broder gives you two columns a week of it.
Redshift
@Cat Lady: And he definitely wouldn’t “voom” if you put four thousand volts through him!
DougJ
George Will is a serious person and said withdrawing made sense.
You know, as much as I believe George Will is not a serious person, I respect that he wrote what he did about Afghanistan, and more generally, how critical he has been of neoconservatives.
It’s a shame he’s such a bow-tie wearing, global-warming denying douchebag, because there are times when he is genuinely serious and thoughtful.
freelancer
@PeakVT:
I call Bullshit.
Needs more Cthulu.
joeyess
Sorry, folks. Collapse is where we’re headed.
No one can help. No one can stop it.
Sorry. It is what it is.
J.
Corner Stone
I’m in one of the dark hearts of wingnuttia and not one winger I come into contact with is saying anything about the length of time Obama is taking re: Afghanistan.
No one is echoing this out in Nutterville, USA.
eemom
will someone pleeeeeez leave the door of the old folks’ home open so that Broder can wander off into the Beltway traffic. kthxbai.
mclaren
Why not just cut to the chase? Obama can order all the U.S. troops in Afghanistan to place their pistols against their hands, pull the trigger, and blow their brains out. Then we can all celebrate how much we “support the troops” by honoring their bravery.
Enough with the wishy-washy dilly-dallying! It’s time for full-bore, hardcore, bugfuck wacko insanity!
Linkmeister
Shorter David Broder: “Let’s you and him fight.”
freelancer
@joeyess:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1697#comic
for you.
Yutsano
@joeyess: I am totally okay with this event as long as Washington can have a referendum to become the next Canadian province.
tc125231
@Persia:
Amen.
inkadu
Someone was giving Broder a run for his money on NPR’s Money show… she made the claim that the financial reforms are really grossly undemocratic because both houses of congress and the presidency are controlled by one party. I guess they cut her off before she recommended setting the federal interest rate by popular vote.
Anne Laurie
Way to harsh our mellow, Doug. Cat Lady’s right, Broder is OOOOOOLD by every possible metric, a relict of past empires and extinct patterns of thought, and he’s jiggling with impatience like his prostate is aching because he’s desperate for one last conflagration before the night claims him. Outlasting him, and probably his newspaper mouthpiece, is not going to be an insurmountable challenge.
Ailuridae
@DougJ:
But there is no way he was being honest. At any point he could have written the same thing on Iraq but there wasn’t a Democratic president he felt he could trap in five years for not heeding the right advice.
Linkmeister
Does anyone else think Broder is channeling Dylan Thomas’s “Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night?”
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
srv
David Broder is so stupid he makes Doug Feith look like a rocket scientist.
Ailuridae
@Anne Laurie:
But he heavily influences debate in the here and now and that’s just a reality. Not addressing the BS memes he starts ends up with Presidents being investigated for land deals and us all being led into grossly irresponsible wars. As much as the left blogosphere serves a purpose beyond entertainment and kinship amongst like minded folks its to read the David Broders of the world and after every column where he tries to present establishmentarianism as the country’s true desire and write
“Fuck you old man! You’ve been demonstrably wrong about every piece of politics and policy since Ford pardoned Nixon.”
asiangrrlMN
Hey, DougJ, I gotta request. Any time you write about Broder or Brooks, can you just put David the Elder or David the Younger? FREEP THROAT!
kthkbai.
San
I predict that tomorrow the internets will be ablaze with outrage:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/073Tan559I7nX
“ZOMG, Obama proves yet again that he is a secret Kenyan Marxist UnAmerican terrorist!”
asiangrrlMN
@San: Yes, because showing proper respect to other heads of state is sooooo subversive! Sadly, I think you’re right. Though, with Our Ladies of Perpetual Outrage, it’s hard to know what will really send them over the edge on a daily basis.
freelancer
@asiangrrlMN:
I’m still laughing at that. JGabriel knocked the ball out of the park with that one.
asiangrrlMN
@freelancer: Yeah, I didn’t even bother trying to come up with something to top that. How do you top sheer genius?
freelancer
@asiangrrlMN:
I’ve come to expect genius from y’all, but to hit the bulleye on the first throw is no fun for anyone else. Everyone else gives up hope.
Equal Opportunity Cynic
Given that reality, the urgent necessity is to make a decision—whether or not it is right.
Wonderful, so Broder agrees that the nation needs to prioritize doing something about health care. Oh, wait, you say he’s not actually talking about health care in this context?
Amazing how conservatives (including conservatives who pose as centrists) can prioritize action over inaction when it involving shooting things and other assorted fun.
Anne Laurie
@Ailuridae:
Agreed, to a point, just not necessarily on a Friday night. Broder will have some new stupidity — rather, a variation on the same old stupidity — come the cold grey light of morning. Speaking of pointless partisan land-deal investigations, Ken Starr’s Whitewater boondoggle started 15 years ago and wrapped up, to the satisfaction of absolutely nobody, 10 years ago… how many generations is that in Internet terms?
Anne Laurie
@asiangrrlMN: Yeah, I think “Freep Throat” may need to be added as a tag, after someone gets around to including it in the Lexicon. Looks like there’s gonna be a whole lot of that going around, like an intellectual version of swine flu…
asiangrrlMN
@Anne Laurie: I think that’s the perfect definition of it. “The intellectual version of the swine flu.”
Spiny Norman
That is the stupidest sentence I have ever seen published in the Washington Post, yet it was not written by Richard Cohen.
How is this possible?
WyldPiratd
General Winfield [email protected]
<blockquoteCan’t leave entirely though and let AQ set up shop like before.
Really? I would disagree.
AQ and terrorsists in general,were/are most successful due to their ability to decentralize and work in small groups. Bombings, cyberattacks and other means of wreaking chaos can be planned anywhere; not just Afghanistan. Keeping, say 10k troops in Afghanistan for 10 years, won’t do squat to stop AQ from planning attacks in Pakistan, or elsewhere.
I think many westerners confuse the situation in Afghanistan and tribal Pakistan w/simply terrorism. There is and has been a civil/religious war there for many years. That’s how the Soviets, in part became involved in the 80s. It’s why the Indians muck around in Pakistan, too. doesn’t mean that the major player in SW Asia, the Taliban, cant and dont use what we might consider “terrorism” tacically,
What you suggest would seem to encourage a whack-a-mole approach–or make US troops simply a high concentration of US TROOPS in their backyard and wouldn’ prevent terrorism elsewhere .
BethanyAnne
@Cat Lady: Or there is this version. Yay for Warner Bros. finally realizing that free publicity can help and letting the clip go back up.
Alex S.
@slappy:
I had to look it up, he’s 80 already! Even older than Pat Buchanan! ANd he was born on 9/11, lulz.
Ian
@jetan:
I agree with you, but really??? Combining the Crimean war with Hitler? you may have just one upped the wingnuts
Dream On
I am going to wake up tomorrow, make coffee, then walk out my front door naked into busy traffic. I will probably be struck by a car, I may die. This may be a foolish plan.
But to quote Broder, “the urgent necessity is to make a decision— whether or not it is right..”
—(snark aside, who let fools like Broder be our National Voice?)–
Dream On
Ironically, I THOUGHT I just made a typo. A grevious one. “Broder? It can’t be. Isn’t he dead? It must be Brooks.”
Nope, I guess it’s Broder.
Little Dreamer
@mclaren:
Full-bore, hardcore, bugfuck wacko insanity – thy name is mclaren!
Xenos
@joeyess: It depends on what you mean by collapse. The end of an empire is here, and the end of an
economicfinancial system is here. This will suck in the short term but it does not have to be a big deal over the long term.MR Bill
@Ailuridae:
Dylan Thomas? more like Anonymous:
John Wesley Gains
“John Wesley Gains,
John Wesley Geins.
You monumental mass of brains.
Come in, John Wesley,
for it rains.”
Of course, Mr. Gains was a congressman, instead of a journalist, but still…
jetan
@Ian:
I believe I was thinking more along the lines of great military catastrophes. A better comparison would have been the first Afghan campaign by the British Empire.
StonyPillow
Broder wonders why Obama is slow to “Take up the White Man’s burden”.
mad the swine
Umberto Eco, “Eternal Fascism, 14 Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt”
General Winfield Stuck
@WyldPiratd:
Not saying it would stop terrorism elsewhere, that is a strawman. Returning to the open practice where OBL systematically trained AQ terrorists with sanctuary and support from a ruling Taliban would be the difference between state sponsored and random dispersed terrorism, with the former much more dangerous by all accounts.
Xenos
@General Winfield Stuck: Maybe it would just be easier, cheaper, and more efficient to leave Afghanistan and let the Taliban/AQ try moving in again. If they succeed, we invade again and drive them out again. Rinse, repeat.
Doing this every five years would be cheaper, in terms of American lives, at least, than trying to occupy the country indefinitely.
4tehlulz
So I’m sure that Mr. Broder will fully support whatever decision the president reaches.
Bwaahaaaahaaaa etc.
General Winfield Stuck
@Xenos:
If you have been reading my comments on this, you would know that I basically agree with what you say. The only difference is keeping a base or two in Afghanistan focused only on anti terrorism, which is our only real national interest in the region.
Completely pulling out and then reinvading is politically not feasible and would be very costly. And by staying in a low profile posture with much fewer troops, we could continue to provide non Taliban folks with material support and training.
slightly_peeved
Obama’s 2008 campaign ignored the ‘here and now’ debate as much as it could, playing the long game. Worked pretty well.
By and large, I think most US voters (like most voters anywhere) are ignorant of most of these pundits. Barring a live boy/dead girl/whitey tape/dumbass wearing a 3-wolf shirt as the Republican candidate, the most important thing in US politics is the state of the US economy come election day 2010. The debate at the moment will be ancient history by then.
ChrisB
@slappy:@Alex S.: Right, Broder is 80, according to Wikipedia.
Snark fails me on this one. That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.
Ann B. Nonymous
I never thought I’d see the day where a love of panic was admitted for its own sake.
General Winfield Stuck
@Ann B. Nonymous:
Interesting. Whatever do you mean?
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@
Same here. I live in the second reddest county in Misery (73% for St McCain!) and nobody talks about Afghanistan. Nobody. And that includes everybody who’s been living off rurl workfare (aka The National Guard) for the last 20 years and who have family deployed there.
The Beltway Morans have never gotten it: what people think is important here in Flyover Country is miles away from what they think is important.
These people hate Obama anyway so a piddly little (to them) policy issue like a war halfway around the world means nothing to them in the grand scheme of keeping their guns, making sure people they don’t know birth their babies and keeping Teh Gays down.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Ack.
@ 23 (Corner Stone) above. My kingdon for a preview function. And a pony.
Marc
We need a “Daily Show” for the print media.
dan robinson
Just re-read PJ O’Rourke about being serious. He nailed it. Broder is a ‘serious’ and because of that, people pay attention. In reality, he is a fucking moron.
arguingwithsignposts
Reading the comments at WaPo, it’s amazing the delusional, knee-jerk nature of some people: “Obama isn’t doing anything.” “He’s a failure already.” “He’s not a leader.” “he’s destroyed our nation,” etc.
No amount of reality or logic will get through to these people. If only there were some kind of medical treatment for Winguttia. I’d advocate forcible distribution for that.
Ann B. Nonymous
@General Winfield Stuck:
It’s almost the definition of panic. Broder is afraid and he wants to make a rushed, reactive decision — and he explicitly says that the making of the decision is more important than whether that decision is correct. (The self-regard goes without saying.)
Of course, a lot of people are in love with their own alarmism, left, right, center, and Martian. But very few of them actually say it.
Montysano
On Thursday, Terry Gross interviewed Sy Hersh about his latest article on Pakistan and Afghanistan. It was riveting, and made me believe more than ever: get the fuck out. Now. Forget about “saving face” or “cut and run”. Just get the fuck out.
Viva BrisVegas
@Xenos: Maybe it would just be easier, cheaper, and more efficient to leave Afghanistan and let the Taliban/AQ try moving in again.
Are the Taliban and AQ really the same thing? Surely that must be one of the key questions that Obama needs an answer to right now.
I don’t see how in the absence of foreign troops that the Taliban and AQ share the same goals. The reason they were originally allied was that AQ supplied money and troops to fight the Northern Alliance. Without armed conflict in Afghanistan just why does the Taliban need AQ?
So just maybe there is a way to peal the Taliban away from AQ using some of the diplomacy that drives wingnuts so crazy. Do a deal, get the Taliban to cut AQ’s throat, and run away quick.
Of course that would mean talking to the enemy, and we all know that only appeasers do that.
General Winfield Stuck
it’s a fine mess George Bush left behind for the new presnit. No win whatever he does, and who doesn’t think Iraq will not blow up if we pull out completely there, making it a perpetual powder keg to potentially ignite a regional war that makes what we’ve seen look like childsplay.
And neglecting Afghan. to the point it is such a mess there that is unmanageable and unfixable in the extreme. I keep thinking about those SNL skits after the 2000 election where dufus George is opining about breaking the Panama Canal. Broke a lot more shit than that in reality.
Good luck Obama, you’re going to need it.
General Winfield Stuck
@Ann B. Nonymous:
I thought that is what you meant but wasn’t sure.:)
chrome agnomen
@slappy:
@6
what’s terrible about that? i’d help all those sons of bitches on their way myself if i could. greater good and all that.
i got this crazy notion somehow way back when that the central idea of civilization was to move the race forward. i don’t see how any of these guys are doing that, which would be okay if there wasn’t the fact that they move things in a retrograde direction.
you can say i’m a dreamer…
henqiguai
@Yutsano (#28):
Aw dude. DC has something on the order of a half million residents completely separate from those idiots over in the Federal areas and The Hill. At least have the referendum be on becoming the 51st state (don’t recall ever hearing about any Washingtonian wanting to become a part of Maryland.
dr. bloor
@slappy:
He’s eighty. An MRI scan of his brain would probably look like dessicated broccoli or, perhaps, a hamster on a wheel.
Violet
David Broder has a hard on for the Bush years where things like flight suits meant something.
kay
I think the dirty little secret pundits don’t want to admit is that Obama committing to get out of both Iraq and Afghanistan, ASAP, would be really political popular, with big majorities of Americans who are not in the pundit class.
They have to sell these wars for a reason. I don’t believe now and have never believed Americans as a majority are gung ho to invade and occupy anything. Not now, and not ever. They have to be sold on the idea, always.
I think a majority (now) want to “fix” this country, an entirely rational and understandable position, if not morally consistent, given that we invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan.
They live here, and they’re paying dearly for these endless wars, and given a leader who presented it that way, as a choice that had to made, they’d choose investment and energy directed here, in this country.
But pundits can’t say that. And leaders never present wars as a choice, for obvious reasons. But of course they are.
Cheryl from Maryland
Read Colbert King this am to cleanse your mind from Broder. Actually, the WaPo op ed section is mostly good today – guess they wanted to balance out the horrible “On Faith” poll.
Michael
Yesterday, I listened to a county prosecutor and three deputy sheriffs rant on about the government control posed by health care reform. Of course, they’ve got government paid health care.
My dad gets a schoolteacher pension and has medicare – he’s pretty much calling for revolution, and can’t stand that the President is black. Of course, like the rest of his generation, he can’t put 2+2 together on what happens to his goodies if they successfully collapse society.
It makes me sick.
noncarborundum
Although it would be really cool if we could make a decision that involves making someone suck on something.
Michael
If somebody were to suck on something, I’d prefer it be Broder, Brooks, Malkin, Krauthammer, Thomas, Barnes, Will, Sowell, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck sucking on revolvers, in a circle.
The pay per view revenues would be enormous.
JHF
We are a corrupt and murderous nation. In every story book I ever read, eventually the bad guys get their just desserts. What more is there to say, really?
We shouldn’t be there. We aren’t going to leave. There isn’t any money. Our own people are hurting and won’t be cared for. Not a recipe for survival, that’s for sure.
ppcli
The mind reels. There’s no perfect course of action available, so every option is as good as any other.
.
Broder on marriage: There’s no person in the world who would be the *perfect* spouse. So just marry the first person who comes along. Fast. Right frickin now. Vegas, baby.
Corner Stone
@Ann B. Nonymous:
I don’t believe Broder is in fear of anything, and IMO he knows this tactic for exactly what it is.
Broder and his ilk have now layed down the hash marks and will declare any decision by Obama to be the wrong one – unless he out-Bushes Bush and orders a significant “surge”.
When my child stands in front of the fridge and is choosing between apple juice or berry water? That’s the time I channel my inner-Broder, bark at him and say, “Son, pick something or close the door.”
When US military blood and national treasure are on the line? I’d prefer the best option be chosen and Broder can go fuck himself.
Johnny Pez
Here’s where the story ends.
Wile E. Quixote
Remember Silence of the Lambs? Wouldn’t it be cool if there was a serial killer who kidnapped members of the Washington press corps and punditocracy, imprisoned them in a pit and then killed and skinned them in order to make them into a pundit suit? And wouldn’t it be cool if this serial killer showed up on the set of Press the Meat some Sunday morning wearing the shiny new pundit suit made out of Broder, Brooks, Hiatt, Applebaum, et al. And wouldn’t it be even cooler if the serial killer wearing the pundit suit was not only not arrested or prosecuted for killing and skinning his way through the Washington Press corps, but actually got his own Sunday morning show?
For some reason, I have no idea why, but I don’t think that it’s the painkillers, the idea of Brooks, Broder, et al squealing in a pit while a deranged serial killer screams “It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.” really pleases me.
Wile E. Quixote
@slappy
Why is it a terrible thing to say? Broder is a stupid, lazy, contemptible piece of shit who has spent most of his life sucking up to the most worthless people in American politics. When Broder croaks we should have a huge party and celebrate the occasion. I think playing “Another One Bites the Dust” by Queen would be entirely appropriate. We also should send cards to the rest of the WaPo editorial staff saying “Dave’s dead and sucking Nixon’s cock in Hell. Hope you’ll be joining him soon.”
Spazzman Spliff
@JHF:
Only that the stories in all those “story books” are a little thing called “fiction.” In reality, the “bad guys” are much more likely to end up as millionaires, or with their own talk show on cable TV, or in Congress. Or all three, in some cases (cf. Joe Scarborough).
The need for happy endings, and the belief that the “real world” is somehow set up to provide them, is one primary marker for distinguishing “adult” literature from that written for children. And in Idiot America, “adults” are a vanishing breed, because corporations have discovered how lucrative it is to have a market that consists entirely of children, whose view of the world is deliberately maintained at the intellectual level of a comic book.
matoko_chan
Well…..the conservative movement has devolved into a core of white evangelical christians. This is not a denigration of christianity …but an accurate description of a racial socio-religious demographic……and one of the two main political parties of the US.
The GOP has been wholly colonized by the WEC demographic.
Almost all the WECs are in the GOP, and the GOP has become nearly pure WEC.
This is not a good thing.
The GOP is the party of old white evangelical christians.
Non-evangelical christians increasingly vote democratic.