It really is killing these guys that Obama isn’t just immediately plowing tons of troops and billions of dollars into something without any idea what we are trying to accomplish:
Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney delivered a scathing criticism of President Obama’s Afghanistan strategy Friday night, accusing the president of delivering rhetoric and not action in the war-torn country.
Quoting from a speech Obama delivered in March, Romney agreed with the president “that ‘we are in Afghanistan to confront a common enemy that threatens the United States, our friends and allies.”‘ Romney continued on seconding the president: “I believe ‘that to succeed, we and our friends and allies must reverse the Taliban’s gains, and promote a more capable and accountable Afghan government.'”
But Romney went on to criticize Obama for not holding enough meetings with top generals, and inadequately preparing for the elections in Afghanistan.
Obama has met with his generals and national security team eight times in the past few weeks to understand the situation. Mitt Romney’s access to information has been limited to reading Sarah Palin’s facebook scribblings.
Why does anyone take these people seriously?
Bob
It seems that the comments from HRC on this morning’s news shows might provide a glimps of a change in policy.
Essentially, she was saying that it was the goal of the U.S. not to build a nation, in Afganistan, but to protect ours only.
Is that new?
fourmorewars
Maybe it’d be useful to write all the major rightwing blogs and ask them to supply us with the hundreds of posts they obviously have to have made, in ’04, ’05, ’06, etc., that all pointed to early winter ’09-’10 as some crucial point in the Afghan ‘war.’
Or even a single one would do.
Max
Here’s Axe’s response to President Romney. It’s a goodie.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/15/axelrod-knocks-romney-nev_n_358307.html
PaulB
Personally, I believe this, too. I also believe that I need ten million dollars in order to ensure that my retirement is free from financial worries. The obvious problem with both of these statements is left as an exercise to the reader.
I don’t mind the clowns; I very much mind an all-too-compliant and lazy media that treat them seriously.
cleek
sure, but Mitt’s audience doesn’t know this. and if they heard it, they wouldn’t believe it.
Mitt’s just one of dozens of travellin preachers, travellin the states, preachin the GOP gospel to the faithful, and a’hopin to someday be elected GOP Pope.
burnspbesq
One has to take Republicans seriously, because they are the single biggest threat to our way of life.
Just Some Fuckhead
And consider that Mitt Romney is the sane Republican.
evie
His comments are about Sarah, not Obama. He’s trying to get some air when all-Sarah-all-the-time is sucking every bit of it out of GOP media time.
Alex S.
On Veterans’s Day Obama rejected all the options given to him because they had no exit strategy. Obama wants to get out of Afghanistan and he used that day to break through the usual scare and terror prophecies. I suspect he’ll announce some kind of troop reduction, some kind of mid-term exit strategy close to Christmas season. I think the Republicans want to force him to announce it sooner because their action-at-every-price doesn’t work so well when a useless war divides families over Christmas and New Year’s Eve.
Just Some Fuckhead
@evie:
He needs to start a catfight with Levi Johnston then.
bayville
Romney fought alongside Tancredo during the Vietnam War, right?
Punchy
Dont fuck with da Mormons. They conquered Utah, have made unanswered inroads in Northern AZ, and can come take your state, wife, neighbor’s wife, and cousin’s wife all at the same time.
calipygian
OT:
Doughy Pantload has a BIG problem when a comedy show out journalmalisms the faux journamalism of Fux Nuz.
Somehow, Doughy Pantload seems to think that Jon Stewart needs a license to commit journalism or something.
camchuck
@Max:
But Romney fixed an Olympics (when it was cool for the US to host), surely he can fix a war. Though he never bordered on Russian airspace, so he’s probably not the most qualified.
calipygian
Mittens spent the entire GOOPer primary campaign slagging the People’s Republic of Massachusettes, I.E. the state that he governed.
Who gives a shit what Mittens says? Seriously.
me
@calipygian: Goldberg wouldn’t know journalism if it latched on to his face and laid an egg in his stomach.
calipygian
@calipygian: To be fair, Doughy Pantload’s idea of journalism is watching his mommy attempt to put a GPS receiver on the end of Bill Clinton’s cock so we all know where it is at all times, so I can see how he is a bit confused.
eemom
Aw, ferget about Mittie y’all. He ain’t got NUTHIN on Sarah when it comes to Commander in Chief cred. Can’t see Russia from HIS front porch, can he, huh, can he?
Derelict
“People have pointed out that my definition of fascism is wrong because the dictionary says so, but I don’t agree.”
-Teh Doughy Pantload.
Pretty much tells you all you need to know about him.
Sly
Modern journalism requires every issue to be analyzed from both a rational and irrational frame of reference. The exception is Cable News where, when rational proves too nuanced to fit within the time constraints of a five minute segment, the rational frame can be replaced with the random mutterings of a DNC “strategist”.
Tacitus wrote, of the Roman victory at Carthage, “You have made a desert and called it balance in reporting.” Or some such.
AkaDad
@evie:
All this coverage of Sarah Palin and her book tour is yet another example of the media’s Liberal bias.
Notorious P.A.T.
The dictionary, world history, political science, economics, common sense, etc etc etc.
maya
Because they’re pretty.
Royston Vasey
The Taliban threatens the country?
Who knew
Just Some Fuckhead
Bush didn’t have any goals in Afghanistan outside of being a totally bitchin’ “war preznit”. Goals and planning and strategy and all that jazz were the lamentable “hard work” part of being Preznit that he went on and on about during the debates with Kerry, the stuff that kept him from strutting around in a costume of the day and being feted by the underclassmen of America.
inkadu
I would worry about Obama creating a GOP backlash by pulling out of Afghanistan, but after his plans to kill seniors, imprison political prisoners, and censor US media, surrendering to terrorist seems relatively mild.
kay
@Alex S.:
One real practical benefit of Obama’s review is that is has encouraged (informed) dissenters to weigh in, and they have weighed in. Not people like George Will. People who are in Afghanistan and actually know something.
That didn’t happen under neoconservative rule, and we suffered greatly for it.
For people that are constantly invoking the “marketplace of ideas” they’re incredibly anxious to shut down debate.
It seems really transparent to me. Conservatives don’t want a debate on Afghanistan. They made up their minds long ago, based on The Dogma, and a debate just gets in the way.
If we, as individuals, were making a large purchase, we would (hopefully) run, not walk, from a salesman like Romney who told us not to look at the fine print, but shut up and sign the contract. We should adopt the same caution here. They’re selling this, and they don’t want Americans to have any information prior to purchase.
Jesse
Did anyone else catch the Bacevich article in the latest Harper’s, taking on all these BS rationales (“Afghanistan poses a grave threat the to the US”, “the US has considerable interests in Afghanistan”)? Great read from a solid thinker.
Brick Oven Bill
When it comes to inaction, Obama excels. He dithers. This is because he is an academic, scared of accountability.
HBD Denialism gets people killed. This is worse than creating self-esteem issues. Our government cannot bring itself to acknowledge that Afghanistan is a tribal society, founded in biology, ruled by strength, as established by the embrace of the Qur’an as its Constitution. There will never be a George Washington that emerges in Afghanistan.
2:10 *** 2:99 *** 2:104 *** 2:171 *** 3:28 *** 3:73 *** 3:48 *** 4:63 *** 4:89 *** 4:101 *** 4:144 *** 5:51 *** 5:57 *** 5:59 *** 5:60 *** 6:106 *** 8:55 *** 9:5 *** 9:28 *** 9:29 *** 9:30
The correct answer is to get out of the Middle East, let these people live to whatever standard they are capable of under Taliban or Dictator rule, and if they get too organized and become a threat, bomb the militant elements with B-2s launched from Missouri.
Just Some Fuckhead
@inkadu:
lolz
inkadu
@kay: You’re overselling neocon’s genuine interest in Afghanistan. They never really gave a shit about Afghanistan; it doesn’t control oil (though there is that pipeline), it’s not threatening Israel, and it’s not in a key location. They still like it, of course, as much as they like any war, but they’re having way more fun with it as a burning tire around Obama’s neck.
Leelee for Obama
@Jesse: Linky, please? I heard him this week, but I’d like to read the article.
Thanx.
Jesse
@Leelee for Obama: Sure thing: The war we can’t win.
Quackosaur
@inkadu: Just wait until Obama’s new terrorist liege lords command him to take their guns, then they’ll erupt in frothy fervor.
Jesse
@Jesse: Um, you need to be a subscriber, I’m afraid. Go out and patronize your local newsstand :-)
Leelee for Obama
I think a previous poster has it right. Obama is ready to leave Afghanistan, as soon as practicable. That’s not to say all troops out immediately, by any means, but a change in mission, combined with a plan to withdraw over a two-three year period, all the while forcing Karzai and the Pakistanis to do the hard work of marginalizing the Taliban and routing Al Queda. I don’t want to leave the Afghan people high and dry, but they do need to force the issue of clean government and lack of support for groups that undermine their future. It’s their future.
We should be beefing up our security here, so the Bad Guys can’t get in here and wreck havoc. That’s how we defend ourselves from the attack-minded terrorists. The cottage industry we’ve had going in South West Asia, manufacturing more disaffected people who want to injure us, needs to be shut down.
Leelee for Obama
@Jesse: Will do, Jesse. Thanks for trying.
kay
@inkadu:
It is Obama’s war. I’m really really confident that he’ll completely ignore whatever Mitt Romney has to say about it, though.
Mitt Romney backed the bail outs, until it became politically untenable to do so. He’s completely unreliable, and Obama has no compunctions about discarding people who he deems unserious “distractions”, as we have learned.
Romney then:
“I know we didn’t all agree on TARP. I believe that it was necessary to prevent a cascade of bank collapses. For free markets to work, there has to be a currency and a functioning financial system.”
Romney made himself a joke, with that flip flop, because that’s his supposed area of expertise. He’s not in the mix.
Nick
Well, because he’s a white man of course.
kay
@Leelee for Obama:
I so hope you’re right, Leelee, but I can’t get that from what he’s said so far. I’m prepared to be really disappointed. If he exceeds expectations, I’ll be thrilled, but US President’s are not great at telling hard truths about these sorts of engagements, and getting the hell out. It’s the best reason not to get in, IMO. With every day in, the investment gets more profound, and it becomes almost impossible to get out.
Brick Oven Bill
Leelee for Obama makes three bad assumptions:
1. Obama is willing to make a decision. He is not, as a decision would cause him to be criticized (negative emotional feedback) and have accountability (a personal cost). Thus he will continue George Bush’s plan through his entire term.
2. You can ‘force’ Karzai and his government to become responsible. This is more modern Liberal arrogance. Afghanistan will not change the way that it operates now that it has been exposed to your enlightened ideals. It has lived this way forever. This is biology.
3. You can marginalize the Taliban and rout Al Qaeda. You cannot do this when it is the stated goal of the Taliban and Al Qaeda to install an Islamic government. While at the same time the stated goal of America is to install a Constitutional government, when this Afghanistan Constitution states that Afghanistan shall be governed by the Quran, which places the Taliban in charge.
This is a stupid war, and the consequence of a debate tactic Obama used in the primary against Hillary. I wish we had a President with the balls to end it.
Thadeus Horne
@Brick Oven Bill: BoB, take a pill, have a drink, go to sleep. That is all.
kay
@inkadu:
Axelrod said: “I know that Governor Romney has never had responsibility for any decision akin to this, so he just may not be familiar with all that it entails. But I think the American people are being well served by a process that is assiduous and in which every aspect of this is considered. Because, after all, lives of American servicemen are involved here.”
Romney should have stuck to lying about his position on the bail outs.
Or abortion. Or global warming. Or gay marriage. Or health care.
Bubblegum Tate
@AkaDad:
Fact-checking Palin’s book is a sign of deranged hatred.
Leelee for Obama
@kay: I know how you feel, Kay. As someone who hated Vietnam and all it’s lies and tragedies, I had hoped that those lessons would be internalized enough to at least slow down the rush to war. I have since seen that the ability of leaders to paint us as the eternal Good Guys, fighting the good fight for those who cannot do it for themselves is both historic and destructive. The reason I think I am reading Obama right, is that he has said he doesn’t support “dumb” wars. Notwithstanding the sacrifices made by our Military and their families, or the danger posed to the Afghan people, Afghanistan is devolving into a “dumb” war. The corruption in the government cannot be solved by anything we do. Only the people of Afghanistan can cause this to happen. We cannot convince the Taliban to cease their efforts to control the country, because we cannot kill them all, and even if we could, it would win us as many new enemies as we rid ourselves of, if not more. Only the Afghan people can make them part of the solution, or dead.
As to Al Queda, we can destroy those we can find, but all it takes is one to cause a firestorm. We must defend OUR Country from them, stop them before or when they make their moves. Afghanistan and Pakistan cannot be defended by outsiders forever.
If I know these things, then so does the President. It’s what I build my theory on. Like you, I so hope I am right.
On another note-what kind of pie is BOB eating today?
cmorenc
@Just Some Fuckhead:
This statement is true only because he’s being graded on a very generous curve against the current class of other prominent voices in the Republican party (congresscritters, maybe would-be Presidential candidates, nattering GOP-leaning punditocracy, Palinites, wingnuts, etc etc).
However, on an absolute scale, not so much.
I find there’s a simple test of sanity and soundness of character that works devastatingly well in most cases. “Would you trust this person as your mountain-climbing partner on the other end of the belay rope, especially if the going got a bit tough?” Now, while there’s plenty of prominent democrats that would flunk this test, the vastly overwhelming majority of the current crop of republicans would.
Just Some Fuckhead
@cmorenc: Nah, Romney is just playin’ crazy cuz that’s how ya get the Republican nomination these days. His solidly pragmatic track record doesn’t qualify him a top spot in Republican’s idealogical purity ball.
kay
@Leelee for Obama:
My husband is (essentially) a conservative, who is now a registered Dem, who is watching the Afghanistan decision with interest.
He insists Obama tell the truth. He recognizes the difficulty with that, but as a coerced taxpaying backer of what he considers disastrous (for the US) foreign policy he insists he (now) be told the truth. So, that’s all he’s asking. He’s not looking for a specific result, just the respect usually afforded grown ups.
It seems like a reasonable request. We’ll see, right?
Obama has made a lot of decisions in his first year. He had to decide on an approach to the financial implosion in his first month. Then he had to decide on a stimulus. Then he had to decide to pursue health care, and bet his Presidency on it. He’s made a difficult decision on finally going forward with convictions of alleged terrorists, and that’s a decision Bush dodged for 8 years, because it’s going to be difficult. Bush knew that. Of course he did. Bush dodged.
He’s made all of those decisions, first year, and he’ll make this one.
Brick Oven Bill
Its called ‘reality pie’ Leelee.
Al Qaeda = Taliban = Hamas = Hezbollah = my favorite the MILFs = Mookie Al Sadr = Ahmedinejad = Obama’s father-figure King Saud = The Constitution of Afghanistan = A Masculine, Nomadic Belief System.
This Belief System will eat itself if isolated, as it cannot create value. This is called ‘strategy’.
This Belief System will grow if you feed it. This is called ‘engagement’. This is also called ‘stupid’.
thomas Levenson
@bayville: Win. And his five sons were defending freedom during Iraq one and two precisely how?
Nutella
@bayville:
Yep. In France.
But he wanted to be there, though:
Or maybe not:
Nutella
@thomas Levenson:
Mitt said they were serving their country by assisting his campaign. (Sorry, don’t have a link for that but I remember him being quoted as saying that.)
Cat G
@Nutella: how time flies.. August of 2007…
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/08/politics/main3147321.shtml
Koz
Obama worked hard for this job, it’s lovely that 9 months in he actually decides to start work on it.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Koz:
Typical of those people, huh? They prolly hid his paycheck under the Afghanistan dossier.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@PaulB:
That is where the real danger lies. Complaint and lazy but also wholely corporate owned and operated. Another example of deregulated capitalism screwing democracy.
Wile E. Quixote
Dear Mitt Romney,
Have any of your children joined the military yet? Or are they still serving their country by blasting around Iowa in an RV? If the answer to that question is “no” then please shut the fuck up, you worthless goddamned coward.
Seriously. It is well past time for someone in the administration to go after Romney, et al and say “Look, you never served this country, your kids aren’t serving this country , you’re a chickenshit, loudmouthed coward and I’m not going to screw things up and get someone else’s kids killed just so you can have a foreign policy hard-on.”. There’s no downside to this. Oh, and while doing so point out that Romney went to France during Vietnam rather than serve his country. I mean Mormons and France, push those two buttons and the right-wing will be hatin on Romney for months.
Chuck Butcher
@Wile E. Quixote:
Well sure there is, this postulates military service as an ability to think clearly. Works fine if you don’t agree with them, sucks for your own side of an argument.
You’d really like the military frame of mind directing this sort of thing?
Phoenix Woman
@PaulB:
If you’re wondering how they got that way:
Ever since Nixon’s win in ’68, Washington has been a town that, in the words of Josh Marshall, is “wired for Republicans”. Watergate was a bump in the road that inspired former Nixonites and other cons to work harder on their plans to control the country. For example (s) —
1) Former “energy czar” William Simon used his Olin Foundation perch to push conservative control, not just of the media, but of any institution tasked with providing objective-reality data: Colleges, universities, research institutions, think tanks. This even as rich liberals were forsaking the media and electoral politics for single-issue groups.
2) Wonder how Joe Lieberman got to be a United States Senator in 1988? It’s because the Cons and Nixonites finally, finally were able to go after the hitherto-untouchable Lowell Weicker, the guy who dared work for Nixon’s impeachment, and they used Lieberman to do it. It had taken them fourteen years, but they finally made Weicker pay for his apostasy.
Pseudonym
Bacevich on Afghanistan: The war we can’t win (original) (in case nobody’s found it yet)
Leelee for Obama
@Pseudonym: Thanks for that link. Funny, Bacevich basically says something similar to what I wrote. I do admire him, but it’s nice to know we think quite alike.
wndrtch
Are you kid’n me!
“Obama has met with his generals and national security team eight times in the past few weeks to understand the situation…”
Eight times in the past few weeks?! He’s been “Commander in Chief” for the last 11 months, and he’s just NOW meeting with his national security team? Did you Libs ever read the job profile for PotUS?
Liberals in this country are nothing but a bunch of cows, waiting in the field to be slaughtered. Your idea of “national defense” is to stampede when the carnage begins. So long as it’s not you being eaten, all is good. Your “plan” is nothing but handing out a bunch of sneakers, and turning your back our troops.
Wake up, you babies.
Steeplejack
@wndrtch:
Just because the president has met with the joint chiefs a lot lately doesn’t mean he hasn’t met with them before. Are you really that stupid, or are you a troll?
arguingwithsignposts
@Steeplejack:
Weak troll is weak.
Steeplejack
@arguingwithsignposts:
My comment is dialed back from the original, which was “Fuck off, you idiot!”
Trolls don’t usually bother me so much, but this one did. And so early in the morning.
Tom Duffy
Obama is between a rock and a hard place. Unable to reconcile the polar opposite viewpoints of the extreme left wing of his own party, which is always anti military and pro socialist now pro marxist with the real and immediate threats to our country which require real and immediate action. In this regard he is a true weak-kneed liberal. He received the troop request from his top hand picked general months ago, but up to this point nothing. History repeats itself and in this case more of the same. Week on defense, cut military, increase social programs and entitlements complete socialist manifesto will result in foreign policy fiasco sometime during his presidency like carter he will be run out office after 4 years in shame.
Tom Duffy
@Tom Duffy: You left wingers are a hateful bunch. I guess being the losers in life might make a weak man angry. Instead of blaming others for your own failings pull yourself up and try and do something positive.