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You are here: Home / You Got What You Paid For

You Got What You Paid For

by John Cole|  November 20, 20095:19 pm| 181 Comments

This post is in: Clown Shoes

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Sorry, but I don’t feel bad at all about any moran who stood outside in the cold all day just to get Sarah’s autograph and then got stiffed by her. You got what you deserved, and please tear up your voter registration card in protest.

On the other hand, maybe you will get luckier on the Carrie PreJean book tour.

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181Comments

  1. 1.

    jibeaux

    November 20, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    I certainly hope you’re not trying to imply that Sarah is some kind of quitter.

  2. 2.

    LT

    November 20, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    You’re not supposed to feel bad, you’re supposed to feel amused. I mean the people who rallied around her against the greatest tyranny in our country’s history are now saying they’re not going to support her – because they didn’t get a book signed. fucking hilarious.

  3. 3.

    Pigs & Spiders

    November 20, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    But she winked at me! WE HAD A CONNECTION!

  4. 4.

    tripletee

    November 20, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    @jibeaux:

    I hope he’s not trying to imply that Carrie Prejean is going to be using her hand for something other than autographing books.

  5. 5.

    Zifnab

    November 20, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    On the other hand, maybe you will get luckier on the Carrie PreJean book tour.

    Unlikely. The only person who gets lucky with Carrie Prejean is Carrie Prejean. At least, that’s according to the video evidence.

  6. 6.

    David

    November 20, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    SUCKERS! Thanx 4 all your book money, I’m going to Saks! /Palin

  7. 7.

    MikeJ

    November 20, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    No thread yet about the Obama/Polamalu PSA, or has Ocho Gato nixed it?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXsoDx9s0j0

  8. 8.

    JK

    November 20, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Musical tribute to disappointed Palin fans

    Wah Wah – George Harrison
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd8K5juJ_1M

    Cry Baby Cry – The Beatles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLgCeCfWgXo

  9. 9.

    J in WA

    November 20, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    @LT Yeah, I believe the term for them is “Whiney-Assed Titty Babies.”

  10. 10.

    joes527

    November 20, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    The snow queen needs to be careful here.

    Being Robespierre to the mob is fun and all, but that whole thing ended badly.

  11. 11.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 20, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    It would not surprise me at all if she cancelled the last few days of her book tour. Too bad so sad for the folks in Fayetteville, Arkansas, but signing your name over and over again is hard work.

  12. 12.

    beltane

    November 20, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Apparently many of these people are so angry they’re planning on returning the books they bought. It sounds to me like these wingnuts are a fickle bunch. Her supporters are not nearly as devoted as we’ve been led to believe.

  13. 13.

    JK

    November 20, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Hostile comments from Sarah Palin’s Facebook page
    http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/video_of_angry_wingnuts_booing_sarah_palin_calling_her_a_quitter_chantin

  14. 14.

    Annie

    November 20, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    @jibeaux:

    LOL. Maybe carrying around her poor child like some kind of stuff animal was too much for her.

  15. 15.

    The Dangerman

    November 20, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    For Rich Lowery’s mental health, there should be a moratorium on any posts discussing “stiff” and Sarah.

  16. 16.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I say the same thing to whiners in California when the schools cut activities and their kids are in classes with more students. I say, you get what you pay for.

    America is such a jeckyll and hyde place nowadays. Those people whining that Sarah left them in the cold should STFU. Why? Because they support somebody who is a quitter they should not be surprised when she quits on them.

    To her and many like her, these people are nothing but the villagers of old. They are there to provide for their masters only to get rebuffed when it comes time to meet their king.

    Yep, I find myself telling many to STFU nowadays. I say do NOT whine if you can’t tell me why you hate Obama, can’t accept the mess that was handed to us by years of special interest butt kissing that started all the way back to Richard Nixon and accelerated under Reagan.

    Do NOT whine to us if you parrot Rush on one hand and then cry that your job was shipped off to another country.

    Do not whine if you think the country is becoming a mirror of European s-lism (damn filters force me to do it this way) yet you bask in the pork and programs you whine about.

    DO NOT whine when businesses, military bases and the like close and leave your shitstain little town because there is no more money or economic viability to doing business in your craptastic berg.

    The people whining about America the loudest are the ones who think we are somehow this great country when we just aren’t anymore. We can barely muster up the courage to make the tough decisions and fund schools properly, take care of the sick and make the fiscal decisions that are humane and fair to all (cut the defense budget way down, stop attacking countries just because of lame threats and cut down pork spending that helps nobody but the rich in red states).

  17. 17.

    Annie

    November 20, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    @tripletee:

    LOL. Yuck…..

  18. 18.

    namekarB

    November 20, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Check out the comments over at the Rumper Room.

    Here is one for the Balloon Juice Lexicon. “Palienated”

    AmentTOO BAD I was “Palienated” today in Noblesville. I waited SEVEN hours and never got my book signed. Only 600 of the 1000 promised wrist bands got in the door. Such a HUGE disappointment!

    Woo hoo, break out the popcorn.

  19. 19.

    kay

    November 20, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    McCain’s former campaign staff must be enjoying this.

    Palin is running this one. Unfettered by….planning.

  20. 20.

    Bitty

    November 20, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Oooh. She’s coming to my town Tuesday. Whatever happens, I’m sure it will be amusing. And I’ll be as far away as possible.

  21. 21.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    November 20, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    saying they’re not going to support her – because they didn’t get a book signed

    It was easily predictable, though. The only modern movement conservatives who give a damn about gay people are the ones who are related to a gay person. The only ones who give a damn about black people are the ones who spent a lot of time around them (Jack Kemp) or are one (Michael Steele), The only ones who give a damn about stem cell research are the ones who watched a loved one wither away and die from an ailment that SCR might cure.

    Now we have The Barracuda. So what if she made Alaskan rape victims pay for the investigation of their attacks? So what if she welcomed witch-hunters who drove innocent people from their homes? Her fans won’t get mad unless she insults them, personally.

  22. 22.

    calipygian

    November 20, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Someone HAS to be making a mockumentary about this book tour. It has all the hallmarks of the final tour of an aging rockband such as found in “Spinal Tap”.

    In fact, it’s a little “Spinal Tap”-ish, a little “Best in Show”-ish with a heaping tablespoon of “Evita”.

  23. 23.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    November 20, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    @tripletee:

    You win.

  24. 24.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 20, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    @Pigs & Spiders:

    But she winked at me! WE HAD A CONNECTION!

    Ha! Palinites really are like those poor schmucks who think the flirty bartender really likes them, aren’t they?

    Anyway, I wonder if this is connected to Palin getting booed.

  25. 25.

    Peter J

    November 20, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Palin got her money. I think that’s all that matters. To Palin.

  26. 26.

    licensed to kill time

    November 20, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    @JK: Wow, those are some pissed off people. When you shatter the illusion, the letdown is painful.

  27. 27.

    Midnight Marauder

    November 20, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    On the other hand, maybe you will get luckier on the Carrie PreJean book tour.

    Better to get lucky on a Carrie Prejean book tour than a Glenn Beck book tour.

    At least that’s what I always say.

  28. 28.

    Notorious P.A.T.

    November 20, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Someone HAS to be making a mockumentary about this book tour. It has all the hallmarks of the final tour of an aging rockband such as found in “Spinal Tap”.

    No one has called her book a “sh*t sandwich” yet but Stephen Colbert came close enough.

  29. 29.

    Scott H

    November 20, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    See the diverse crowd for the Palin signing here in Cinci.

  30. 30.

    kay

    November 20, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    The heading on the clip says “…after Palin quits and refuses to sign books”

    Is that really what happened? Did she walk off the job?

    I’m imaging her throwing down the Sharpie and storming off.

  31. 31.

    JK

    November 20, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    @licensed to kill time:

    Maybe, these losers can get psychiatric counseling or try a 12 step program.

  32. 32.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Woo hoo, break out the popcorn.

    Seriously, that Palienated guy needs to STFU. Nobody cares but him.

    We laugh because it only shows how right we’ve been. Those people can’t tell you what’s wrong with America without parroting Hannity, Limbaugh or Beck.

    I argued with one rightie friend of mine about Obama for hours only to keep reminding him that America WAS FOUNDED ON LIBERAL CONCEPTS. He kept arguing why I was wrong but using Rush type platitudes to which I shut him down and defriended him on Facebook.

    No more.

  33. 33.

    Alex S.

    November 20, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    @namekarB:

    That’s great. From now on, I will call her the Palien.

  34. 34.

    Annie

    November 20, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    @Scott H:

    I think I see the one African-American guy from the teabaggers documentary….along with that creepy white guy “yearning” for something…

  35. 35.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    @JK: Wow, those are some pissed off people. When you shatter the illusion, the letdown is painful.

    I guess the liberal media was right all along? She’s no different than any other pol looking to make money off the masses.

    The whiner who kind of forgave her by saying she “scares” folks in Washington cracked me up the hardest. Honey, they aren’t scared of Sarah, that sound you hear is a collective roar of laughter from liberals and some cons.

  36. 36.

    calipygian

    November 20, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    @Notorious P.A.T.:

    No one has called her book a “sh*t sandwich” yet but Stephen Colbert came close enough.

    Palin IS down with a re-make of “Gimme Some Money“

  37. 37.

    Mark S.

    November 20, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    She could at least apologize

    Oh, honey . . .

    I actually feel kind of sorry for these people. They aren’t the brightest bulbs. They really think Sarah is some nice lady who actually cares about their hopes and concerns and would invite them over for a bowl of moose chili. All of those stories about what a lazy diva she actually is are of course just lies told by liberal elites and bitter McCain staffers.

    The people who got the photocopied cards of Sarah’s signature won’t be the last one to have their dreams shattered.

  38. 38.

    licensed to kill time

    November 20, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    @JK: Authoritarians Anonymous, or “I wish I could quit you!”

  39. 39.

    Brachiator

    November 20, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Wait a minute. Palin quit the autograph session early, without finishing it? She … quit?

    Hmmm. There’s some kind of pattern here. Also, too.

    On the other hand, maybe you will get luckier on the Carrie PreJean book tour.

    I hear that Prejean likes to finish what she starts.

  40. 40.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Palin has never been a retail politician.

    Thank you. I’ll be here all night.

  41. 41.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Ha! Palinites really are like those poor schmucks who think the flirty bartender really likes them, aren’t they?

    They are so proud of being uneducated hicks from what I can tell. One thing has always bothered me about supporters of hardcore right types like Palin and Bachmann….they really believe they have to vote for somebody who comes off like them? They turn off to the b.s. because these people think it’s a badge of honor to attack smart people or people with educations. They get off on attacking those who choose to live in or near cities and make good livings.

    They really hate people like you and me and call us elitist because we think for ourselves. People who claim to think for themselves and espouse love for the likes of Palin are basically jealous they can’t take a risk or spend the money needed to get a proper education.

    Sad.

  42. 42.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    @Mark S.: On the plus side, those photocopied signature cards should be worth more because they have more historical significance. Any jerk politician/author can sign books all day. But to stiff half your fans is a real triumph.

  43. 43.

    Violet

    November 20, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    @Scott H:

    See the diverse crowd for the Palin signing here in Cinci.

    They’re diverse. They’re all shades of white.

  44. 44.

    parksideq

    November 20, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    And they say progressives have a messianic gravitation to Obama…

    But what do I know, I’m just an Obamabot.

  45. 45.

    JK

    November 20, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Palin quit the autograph session early

    Wow, what a truly shocking development. I hope these disappointed Palinites can find some grief counselors.

  46. 46.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Musical tribute to disappointed Palin fans

    Cry Me A River by Justin Timberlake

    Crying by Roy Orbison

    Baby Talk by Billy Idol

    Tears Of A Clown by Smokey Robinson

    When Doves Cry by Prince

    96 Tears by ? And The Mysterians

    It’s My Party And I’ll Cry If I Want To by (Can’t remember darn it)

    Tears On My Pillow by Little Anthony

    And…. Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head by BJ Thomas for those who cried about standing in bad weather.

  47. 47.

    bjacques

    November 20, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    It looks like Sarah stayed for the allotted time, and someone messed up on the organization end. Not her fault, as such. But someone more Presidential, hell, even Vice-Presidential, might have picked up on it. She might have, maybe, oh, I don’t know, made a snap decision to stick around another few minutes. But then she wouldn’t be Sarah Palin.

    Book signings, especially for mass-market authors, are pretty impersonal and the store has to herd the customers through quickly, so the no pictures or personal dedications rule sounds par for the course. If book sales are driven mostly by hero worship, bummer.

    If this turns out to be a pattern…

  48. 48.

    Violet

    November 20, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    On her Facebook page, Sarah Palin apologizes for the mixup yesterday:

    I’ve been told that yesterday there were supporters in Noblesville who stood in long lines for hours in the cold and rain, and the book signing event ended without a chance to say hello to everyone who showed up. I am so sorry. We are working on a solution for those who were left behind.
    —
    I apologize.
    —
    – Sarah Palin

    ——————-

    I’m sure blockquote is going to fail me, but all the above is quoted.

  49. 49.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 20, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    @The Populist:

    They get off on attacking those who choose to live in or near cities and make good livings.

    Believe me, I really want you to stay there, because if you come here then it will be there.

  50. 50.

    Scott H

    November 20, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Unless I posted #29 while dozing, I am apparently going to have to give up my commenting handle.

  51. 51.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    Oh…I love how some tried to blame Borders. Being somebody who knows how these types of in-stores work the talent decides when to leave and any wristbands/etc. are handed out and discussed with talent’s handlers. If she left, it’s not the store’s fault…it’s the talent’s fault.

  52. 52.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 20, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    @kay:

    I have no idea if she just quit and walked off (though I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised if that’s what happened). I just saw that video on another site, then came here and saw this thread and figured the two went together like “Also” and “You betcha.”

    I didn’t realize the video was also in the link JK had already posted, though–my bad, JK!

  53. 53.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    In one of the videos you can hear a Sarah fan say, “She probably would have come back out, but she heard them.” “Them” are the people chanting outside the bus. A few seconds later, the engine starts up. These people are too stupid for words.

    I also like how Sarah lives in a big bus, so it’s obvious that she has nothing to do but ride around to the next town to sign more books. Just makes the insult sting a little more.

  54. 54.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    Believe me, I really want you to stay there, because if you come here then it will be there.

    Huh? What? Hehe on whatever it is and trust me I am not planning to go wherever it is you think I shouldn’t. I have no interest in living in such places even though I will visit them from time to time.

    I am not talking about all people in these places BUT if you vote against your own self interests or care very little about education or learning about things, you have zero sympathy for me and can languish in self pity and pettiness for all I care.

  55. 55.

    Napoleon

    November 20, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    @bjacques:

    There was nothing stopping her from staying. When I heard what she did I couldn’t help put think of someone like Nascar’s Richard Petty who would stay at the track until after it was dark signing autographs until there was no one left who wanted one.

  56. 56.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    @The Populist: People who claim to think for themselves and espouse love for the likes of Palin are basically jealous they can’t take a risk or spend the money needed to get a proper education.

    I wish I hadn’t wasted money on my education. Which politician should I support?

  57. 57.

    MikeJ

    November 20, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Book signings, especially for mass-market authors, are pretty impersonal and the store has to herd the customers through quickly, so the no pictures or personal dedications rule sounds par for the course.

    Alton Brown had bigger crowds than that Cincy picture, and he did pictures, as long as there was no fumbling, have it ready, have someone who knows how to use your camera standing right there to take it. Of course if you read Alton’s book you’ll know more and have new skills at the end, so it’s different that way too.

  58. 58.

    HumboldtBlue

    November 20, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    Well, it’s pretty much been Christmas on the blogs today, and this story is the shing star atop the tree. It seems some Wisconsin Guardsmen gusrding detainees in Iraq have been getting needled by the detainees about … Brett Favre. srsly

  59. 59.

    Tom Hilton

    November 20, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    If the right-wing ‘authors’ go Galt on their book tours, they’ll bring society to its knees.

  60. 60.

    Alex S.

    November 20, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    She threw them under the bus.

  61. 61.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    I wish I hadn’t wasted money on my education. Which politician should I support?

    Somebody who believes education is something we should be spending more on? I am not sure if you are being sarcastic with my point, but it is true…those who think education is worthless deserve to wallow in the messes that inevitably follow.

  62. 62.

    JK

    November 20, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    @The Populist:

    Excellent list.

    A few more songs for distraught Palin supporters:

    I’m a Loser – The Beatles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMZzUvbTQHo

    Cry if You Want – The Who
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSP_Zs7Nr7o

  63. 63.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    November 20, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    We are working on a solution for those who were left behind.

    Oh, RAPTURE!

    But I’m sure her faithful flock will forgive her and kill themselves apologizing for even daring to hint they were less than thrilled to wait for her. Why people refer to Dems as the battered wives of politics is beyond me.

  64. 64.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    WHY WON’T THESE PEOPLE LET SAY-RUH BE SAY-RUH???

  65. 65.

    JenJen

    November 20, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    @Pigs & Spiders: This.

  66. 66.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 20, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    @The Populist:

    It’s My Party And I’ll Cry If I Want To by (Can’t remember darn it)

    Lesley Gore

  67. 67.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    @The Populist: …those who think education is worthless deserve to wallow in the messes that inevitably follow.

    You mean an inevitable mess like $45,000 in debt in a down job market? That kind of mess?

  68. 68.

    Peter J

    November 20, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    We are working on a solution for those who were left behind.

    Sarah Palin got raptured?

  69. 69.

    HumboldtBlue

    November 20, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    @The Populist: People who claim to think for themselves and espouse love for the likes of Palin are basically jealous they can’t take a risk or spend the money needed to get a proper education.

    It’s not the formal education that is lacking, it’s the personal inquisitiveness that is missing. A curiosity about an issue, a world or national leader, reading respected authors about historical events, comparing and contrasting, arguing with yourself and with others to test your knowledge on a daily basis.

    That is what’s missing. College and University are wonderful places, but unless you’re studying medicine, law, economics or some such, the bulk of your learning in college will be building a platform for some critical thinking skills and learning some self criticism. I didn’t learn much studying journalism, but I sure as hell learned a whole fucking truckload once I was hired to be a reporter.

    I received the basics in firefighting, first aid and such while in fire school, but that was nothing compared to being in the truck, bunkered out responding to a call of a car accident, a structure fire a gas leak.

    Education never stops, IF, and that’s a mighty big IF, you are willing to admit your ignorance and learn on your own.

  70. 70.

    gwangung

    November 20, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    It’s My Party And I’ll Cry If I Want To by (Can’t remember darn it)

    Lesly Gore. (which she sung on the Adam West Batman TV show…)

  71. 71.

    Peter J

    November 20, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    I’m too slow.

  72. 72.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 20, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    More songs:

    “After Laughter (Comes Tears)”–Wendy Rene

    “Cussin’ Cryin’ Carryin’ On”–Ike & Tina Turner (probably my favorite song of theirs, too)

    “Baby, Don’t Cry”–Third Guitar

  73. 73.

    Mouse Tolliver

    November 20, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    @Violet: She was “told” about this? What, she couldn’t hear the screaming mob from inside The Hate Talk Express?

  74. 74.

    Butch

    November 20, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Wait – a failed vice presidential candidate who quit halfway through her term as governor, and you’re actually asking me to believe she didn’t finish something? Unpossible.

  75. 75.

    Mark S.

    November 20, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    @MikeJ:

    The only book signing I’ve ever been to was Jamie Oliver (my girlfriend wanted to meet him for some reason, I thought I was all the eye candy someone could want) and I don’t remember any rules like that. Out of bad luck we ended up being about the last people to get our book signed, but Jamie (we’re on a first name basis now) was very personable even after signing however many hundreds of books.

  76. 76.

    Svensker

    November 20, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Wait a minute. Palin quit the autograph session early, without finishing it? She … quit?

    No. The session was due to end at 9 p.m., so at 9 p.m. she left, even though there were still 150 people still waiting (out of the 1000 that bought tickets or whatever they were selling so you get her autograph). They knew she didn’t have to be to her next signing until the next night, so they were pissed that she didn’t stay the extra hour to finish them up. The losers were given peel-n-stick autographs but this didn’t satisfy, apparently.

  77. 77.

    calipygian

    November 20, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    It’s not the formal education that is lacking, it’s the personal inquisitiveness that is missing.

    Agreed. I now have a Bachelor’s, which I got during 20 years in the military, class by class, CLEP exam by CLEP exam and through credit for military experience.

    It’s not “formal education”. It’s inborn curiosity, combined with the exposure to “the other”, which is something you may not get if you never leave Abilene.

  78. 78.

    JGabriel

    November 20, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Some of those hostile comments, highlighted by Rumproast , from Palin’s former fans on her Facebook page are just wonderful:

    Jordan Harris: I have never felt so disrespected. … You just slapped hundreds of Hoosiers in the face.

    Oh NOEZ! A slap in the face!

    Julie Beightler Doll: Wasted my day, wasted money on a babysitter, and wasted my money on this book.

    I just love all these people who “wasted” their money on a book. It’s almost like they were never gonna read the book, they just wanted the autograph.

    Lu Paletta Part II: 30 mins after being let in, told leave or be escorted out. Showed bookplates; told they had no value. B&N blamed cutoff on Palins who had to go to Ft Wayne. It is 3 hours away, a next day signing; she couldn’t stay for fans who waited in rain/cold all day? B&N ticked me off; returned all books. Governor: You have the people’s ear; you are scaring Washington. But, please acknowledge people that wait for hours to see you. We are reaching out to you and need you to reach back.

    They just need a reach … back.

    .

  79. 79.

    bemused

    November 20, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Some were yelling, “Quitting on the job”. Oh, the irony.
    Fascinating how quickly they can turn on her. Then again, when people conjure up a heroine out of fairy dust, they tend to get pretty testy when their idol doesn’t measure up to their fantasies of her.
    Who the hell would stand out there in the freezing temps & damp for hours with their little kids? They knew there was going to be a long line & wait, could have easily checked the forecast & they still brought their little kids there to be miserable.

  80. 80.

    Steko

    November 20, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Inc. Twitter from Meg Sarah blaming this all on Mr. Trig’s sniffles. It couldda been swine flu!!1

  81. 81.

    demkat620

    November 20, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    To use the same joke twice.

    “This is not a man who sees America like you and I see America,” Palin said.

  82. 82.

    calipygian

    November 20, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    “This is not a man who sees America like you and I see America,” Palin said.

    Palin sees America like Tony Montana sees America.

  83. 83.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    You mean an inevitable mess like $45,000 in debt in a down job market? That kind of mess?

    Inkadu, no. Sorry to hear that. When you went to college did you expect this economic mess to happen at the scale it has? No I bet you didn’t. We all knew a downturn COULD come but not like this.

    You still did the right thing and got an education. The problem I find is that Americans who DO get educations are strapped with unreasonable debt. I find that appalling too.

    I get very impassioned but I do believe in fairness for all. I hope that shows. What’s fair is giving people college at a low rate and have the government pay for some of this by spending more on education. I believe it can be done. If we have to subsidize anything in this country it should be public education from K all the way to college at public institutions.

    We don’t spend enough and in the end, those who WANT to learn are saddled with unnecessary debt.

    That’s where I stand, hope it’s clearer.

  84. 84.

    Mouse Tolliver

    November 20, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    @JK: @JK: “We’re Not Gonna Take It” from Tommy.

  85. 85.

    Zifnab

    November 20, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    @JGabriel:

    Oh NOEZ! A slap in the face!

    Was this over or under the bus?

  86. 86.

    Alex S.

    November 20, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Palin went rogue on her fans.

    But what else is she supposed to do? She’s a maverick.

  87. 87.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: My complaint about college is that it’s kind of a mess. You can come out of college with knowledge, marketable skills, and an ability to think critically. Or you can come out with a few of those, or maybe none of them. The only things that are guaranteed are debt and that you’ll be older when you’re done. So I’m hesitant to make conclusions about people based on their level of formal education, and even less enthusiastic about putting formal education on a pedestal.

  88. 88.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Education never stops, IF, and that’s a mighty big IF, you are willing to admit your ignorance and learn on your own.

    I agree. I learn new things everyday. I want to learn new things.

    I have never understood those who aren’t curious to see both sides of the coin. I do not understand those who think that compromise is dirty.

    We never stop learning and I don’t claim to know more than the next guy but I do try to have opinions and thoughts that keep expanding my mind. To me, those who think public schools and education are a waste are the ones that have no curiosity, intelligence and have some agenda that is harmful to communities and this nation.

    If we don’t pay more to make education important and get society behind that we truly will become a land of haves and have nots as well as a third world nation.

    That is why I am always on the education kick. Those who question public schools tend to vote red and live in small backwoods areas. They tend to stack their school boards with hostile types who want to rewrite history, science and other things and take away things that may be uncomfortable to them BUT challenge students to think and understand an issue.

    I can’t tell if I am being attacked by a couple people here for stating what I think is right…education is important and those who don’t think that get what they pay for…people who think Sarah Palin is a good soul who is “speaking” for common people.

  89. 89.

    Zifnab

    November 20, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    @The Populist:

    What’s fair is giving people college at a low rate and have the government pay for some of this by spending more on education.

    Nonsense. College is something you earn.

    Either by busting your ass, day in and day out, between classes and part time jobs. Never giving time to socialize. Never being allowed to take a chance for the price of failure. Getting by on minimum wage jobs and ramen noodles, until you complete your degree. All so you can earn just enough money to be considered middle class.

    Or by having rich parents.

    Either way, you can’t just give everyone in the country a free education. That would make having gentleman’s C from Yale you got by dint of your father’s clout and capital totally worthless.

  90. 90.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    November 20, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    I’ve been told that yesterday there were supporters in Noblesville who stood in long lines for hours in the cold and rain, and the book signing event ended without a chance to say hello to everyone who showed up.

    “I was told?” What, the catcalls by the angry crowd gathered around your bus didn’t give it away?

  91. 91.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    But what else is she supposed to do? She’s a maverick.

    Don’t mavericks travel with guns ready to blaze? Why she couldn’t pull out a trusty hunting rifle, shoot some varmint and give it to the people of Noblesville is beyond me!

  92. 92.

    Joey Maloney

    November 20, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    You notice how all those folks are saying they’re going to return her book. It’s worthless to them without her magic signature. It’s a relic to them, not a medium of information transfer.

    Read it? Why would you do that?

  93. 93.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Either way, you can’t just give everyone in the country a free education. That would make having gentleman’s C from Yale you got by dint of your father’s clout and capital totally worthless.

    Hehe, sarcasm is funny. Seriously, nobody is asking the private colleges to subsidize poor students even though they should.

    Now if you breezed through school you shouldn’t get a free pass to a public college. Maybe you go to community college to find something, work at it THEN transfer and get accepted.

    A society is more productive when people have solid educations.

    You crack me up sir.

  94. 94.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 20, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Supporters of Palin: Please look up the definition of Rogue. I know you may have to borrow a dictionary and stuff and maybe ask about the alphabet, but believe me, it will save you tears later.

    Bejsus these people are a trip.

  95. 95.

    Alex S.

    November 20, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    @The Populist:

    That’s true. It’s also strange that she didn’t travel by helicopter.

  96. 96.

    R-Jud

    November 20, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    @calipygian:

    It’s not “formal education”. It’s inborn curiosity, combined with the exposure to “the other”, which is something you may not get if you never leave Abilene.

    Or even if you do. Exhibit A.

    But your point about curiosity is spot-on.

    The Populist, I think you are painting with too broad a brush when you pick on people who don’t “spend the money to get an education” (by which I assume you mean a four-year degree at a university). 70% of the workforce doesn’t have a degree. Lots of those folks live in cities. Lots of them vote Democratic.

  97. 97.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 20, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    @demkat620: “This is not a man who sees America like you and I see America,” Palin said.

    I think he sees it as a place where everybody belongs and doesn’t have to live under your one religion. So, yeah, that’s most certainly a different viewpoint.

  98. 98.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    @The Populist: When you went to college did you expect this economic mess to happen at the scale it has? No I bet you didn’t.

    I didn’t feel qualified as 18-year-old who’d never held a real job in his life to make an informed decision about whether or not to put myself in debt in order to go to college. I don’t know many 18-year-olds that are, and I know even fewer banks that would be willing to hand out those loans to students for anything other than education, and how many students who really understood it would enroll. The only way to get rid of college debt is to pay it off, be permanently disabled, or be dead. The college financing system does not make any sense.

    Except, of course, that college education has a holy-grail aspect to it in our culture, and the assumption is that it:

    a) always pays for itself
    and
    b) is a quasi-religious experience of personal growth.

    I disagree with both of those premises, or at least think the case for them is far from universal — some education, some careers, some students, some institutions, some circumstances will conform to those assumptions, but not all of them.

    I agree with you that government should do more to pay for education. I think it should be free. But I also think college education is so desperately sought after because everyone is looking for something to set them apart. If everyone gets college degrees, all we are doing is shrinking the work force, excluding those of college age… And if we make it more difficult, all we’re doing is enshrining an ariSATcrocy. It’s a mess. It’s nowhere near as simple as “education=good.”

    I’m still all for learning. As Mark Twain said, “Never let education get in the way of learning.”

    And what’s this I hear about Palin abandoning her adoring crowds?

  99. 99.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 20, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    @kay: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Sarah is now allowed to be Sarah. Welcome to the real Sarah.

  100. 100.

    jenniebee

    November 20, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Still reading the book, but the pattern in it is exactly what you’re seeing here: the more exposure you have to The Sarah, the more likely you are to witness some very thoughtless, nasty behavior from her, all done with a perky little smile, and those nasty things are never her fault because, in her version, she didn’t do them but elitist corrupt “insiders” are always telling lies about her and besides it was totally justified if she did do it anyway. She is simply one of those people who you like less and less the longer you know her. From Wasilla to Juneau to DC the theme is all about how everybody she works with in good faith inexplicably turns against her and reveals their corrupt insider-y elitist ways and becomes an unreasoning critic. Poor Sarah seems to be a magnet, constantly drawing around herself an incompetent staff of two-faced malcontents – pity poor Sarah!

    The most reprehensible aspect of this book so far for me though is that this doyenne of Reaganite small-government starts by lauding Title IX, then says she’s for equal pay for equal work, then in the same paragraph she attacks NOW for being too radical and encouraging women to think of themselves as “victims”… then spends the entire rest of the book complaining about how she’s constantly getting attacked for being a woman. The last book I read that saw sexism in as many corners as this book does was Susan Faludi’s Backlash.

  101. 101.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 20, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    @Violet: for those who were *left behind*

    Wait, she’s the redeemer now? Come on, what’s with the choice of words here?

  102. 102.

    Anoniminous

    November 20, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    To quote that deeply insightful commenter from the earlier thread (me,) “Laughing, laughing, laughing.”

    Palin has all the people skills of a deranged baboon and her own ineptness, over time, is going to bring her down.

  103. 103.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    @The Populist: What’s your experience with education? I thought pretty much like you did after I got out of college (the first time). I went to a relatively posh college and thought it was great. When I was getting my masters degree, I attended public college, and was horrified by the low standards there for some of the classes; it really made me think about the value of “education,” if the prime idea behind some classes is to make sure everyone passes.

    Then there’s a whole other idea that students get out of it what they put into it, and no amount of throwing books at students’ heads is going to really make much difference. I see a few intelligent people I think really are crippled by lack of a good education; but I see a lot more dumb people with educations who haven’t learned to think.

  104. 104.

    Mark S.

    November 20, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    What, the catcalls by the angry crowd gathered around your bus didn’t give it away?

    She thought they were yelling “Mooooooose.”

  105. 105.

    slag

    November 20, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    @MikeJ: I’m deeply ambivalent about the NFL (it promoting brain injuries and all), but as far as ads associated with football are concerned, that one was pretty worthwhile. Kinda sweet, even.

  106. 106.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    The Populist, I think you are painting with too broad a brush when you pick on people who don’t “spend the money to get an education” (by which I assume you mean a four-year degree at a university). 70% of the workforce doesn’t have a degree. Lots of those folks live in cities. Lots of them vote Democratic.

    Well…you make a good point. Maybe I am painting broadly here but my point, I FEEL, has merit. School is too expensive yet people do not want to do anything about it. It’s as if they don’t care.

    As for 70% of the workforce, could you provide me a link to that? I don’t believe that in a time when you can’t find decent jobs without SOME advanced education that 70% are High school only.

    Yes, lots of folks do live in cities so you back up my point that these people who are crying about wholesale change taking place and think Sarah or any Republican is gonna save them are just plain limited in their ability to reason. I am not saying vote Dem (I am an independent who leans to the Dems and was once a Goldwater republican) but I do say we need to get rid of this idea that “main street” is small towns and anything they want, they get.

    I just do not accept that we can’t spend more on education is the basis in my rant today. If I am painting with a broad brush that rural folks don’t care, that is not my intention BUT I do question anybody who qualifies learning with parroting talk show hosts and not going out to learn something about the world we live in.

  107. 107.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    @The Populist: Also, dude, if you’re going to be slamming on the majority of the population, you may consider a new handle. Unless it’s one of those ironic things.

  108. 108.

    Comrade Darkness

    November 20, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    @Anoniminous: Her hiring skills are for shit too. The nincompoops who actually have people skills and will hire outside their comfort zone because they actually have self-awareness about their own limitations . . . those are the ones who rise up to where they can screw over a whole lot of people. So, aside from McCain’s coattails, no worries here.

  109. 109.

    HumboldtBlue

    November 20, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    @inkadu:

    Ink, I was trying to touch on that concept. I was exposed to many interesting subjects while in college but that exposure led me to read more on my own delve deeper into a subject that caught my eye or to learn something new.

    One of the real problems I see in education is the singular focus on college as the only way to be “successful” and we’ve done that to our own detriment.

    We’ve given up on Vo-Tech, a problem that will become glaringly apparent in the next decade or so when we have to import qualified carpenters, plumbers and masons from Canada and Mexico.

    I was never a good student in the “formal” setting. I was far too unfocused, far too scatter-brained to follow along like others, checking the correct boxes to ensure that the professor that I had the correct answers.

    I too look skeptically at those if us who automatically point to a brag wall filled with degrees for this and advanced degrees for that because that shows specialized knowledge, but not necessarily intelligence. That’s why the focus on testing as the sole means to judge the quality of student and teacher achievement is such a red herring, it doesn’t touch the core of learning, of being confident you have grasped the myriad ideas and nuances a subject presents.

  110. 110.

    freelancer

    November 20, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    @Alex S.:

    That’s true. It’s also strange that she didn’t travel by helicopter.

    It would have been too busy laughing.

  111. 111.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    What’s your experience with education? I thought pretty much like you did after I got out of college (the first time). I went to a relatively posh college and thought it was great. When I was getting my masters degree, I attended public college, and was horrified by the low standards there for some of the classes; it really made me think about the value of “education,” if the prime idea behind some classes is to make sure everyone passes.

    I care because I see America becoming dumber in that everything on the news channels is some right wing talking robot, Rush Limbaugh macho b.s. or this lack of understanding our history.

    I went to college. I never finished but I did go and plan to finish BUT I always read and learn whatever I can every waking hour of the day. Where my rant went astray on me was the anger I have for small town types who think that they are the only thing that matters in America. The cities make it all go or else we’d be a very large third world nation right now without industry, education and curiosity.

    You and me agree on much. Americans like you should never have to go into debt to get an education. Not all of us can afford it, true, but these know nothings that I am railing on want us to think it’s somehow elitist to better yourself, know all the facts and think for yourself.

    They won’t pay a few dollars more in taxes to make sure America is the greatest country? THAT offends me.

    See, I want the younger generation to be smarter and better than my generation. I want them to do the things that make America smarter and more competitive. The Republicans stand against that. My issues are with people who don’t like evolution taught because they believe the bible is the only thing you need. Prayer doesn’t make the bad stuff go away…it helps soothe the soul but it sure as hell doesn’t put food on the table or give people the education and tools to find work or start a business.

    I dunno. I am having one of those bad days so I apologize if I am ranting. To leave it as this: Education for all is good. If you disagree you must want America to fail because I do not understand it. I also do not understand people who fight for the right wing status quo where we fund silly crap in spite of making our schools better and more adept at educating even the most difficult student.

    Call me an idealist, but I believe in the right to getting the very best education possible and leaving politics and religion out of the equation.

  112. 112.

    Midnight Marauder

    November 20, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    @freelancer:

    It would have been too busy laughing.

    I assume you’re talking about this helicopter?

  113. 113.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Also, dude, if you’re going to be slamming on the majority of the population, you may consider a new handle. Unless it’s one of those ironic things.

    If I am slamming on the majority the country is in much worse shape than I thought.

    Nah, it’s not ironic. I am a populist in the idea that the common man can be the best they can be. That’s all…maybe some irony but the majority of America lives in cities and many can’t even afford an education and can’t get one because of many factors.

  114. 114.

    R-Jud

    November 20, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    @The Populist:

    As for 70% of the workforce, could you provide me a link to that?

    It is back there in the text in my original comment. It’s Wikipedia (blegh), but their graph was just more straightforward than the NCES statistics. You can click through and follow the cite to that raw data if you want. Lots of people start college, or do an associate degree or professional training (your ultrasound technicians, your licensed beauticians, etc.), but four-year degrees only happen for about 27% of the population. And this is an all-time high.

    Foisting higher education on lots and lots more people isn’t necessarily the answer. I think we could get a lot more out of improving primary and secondary education for everyone while restoring decent jobs for people that don’t require college, whether it’s through a green technology push or whatever. Not everyone is cut out for college. Most people are cut out for something useful though.

    That said, I agree that we should spend a lot more on education. But I think we should figure out what we want it to do first. The 8 years not spent addressing this situation, thanks to the enormous distractions caused by 9/11/01, equals millions more American kids who won’t have sufficient skills to do as well as they thought in life. They’ll be pretty pissed off at us when they realize they’ve been conned.

    Anyway, that’s an entire other digression. And it’s midnight where I am, so g’night.

  115. 115.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    So, it still turns out that if you take these falling Obama approval ratings and break them out by region, it’s still only the South which rates him badly:

    BARACK OBAMA

    FAV UNFAV NO OPINION
    NORTHEAST 84 5 11
    SOUTH 26 72 2
    MIDWEST 61 32 7
    WEST 59 35 6

    Is this telling us more about the performance and public opinion of the President, or more about regional variations in outlook in our nation?

  116. 116.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Once more with dots

    BARACK OBAMA
    ………………….FAV…..UNFAV…..NO OPINION
    NORTHEAST…..84……….5……………..11
    SOUTH………….26……..72……………….2
    MIDWEST……….61……..32………………7
    WEST…………….59……..35………………6

  117. 117.

    Anoniminous

    November 20, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    @Comrade Darkness:

    LOL. Nailed that one.

    So, let’s see …

    She lacks people skills, managerial skills, she don’t know nothing, and quits before she starts.

    And Democrats and Lefties everywhere stay awake at night, hiding under the covers, in fear of her running in 2012.

    yup, yup, yup.

  118. 118.

    drillfork

    November 20, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    @Zifnab:

    The only person who gets lucky with Carrie Prejean is Carrie Prejean. At least, that’s according to the video evidence.

    Oh man, now I’m gonna get a computer virus googling that…

  119. 119.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    My complaint about college is that it’s kind of a mess. You can come out of college with knowledge, marketable skills, and an ability to think critically. Or you can come out with a few of those, or maybe none of them. The only things that are guaranteed are debt and that you’ll be older when you’re done. So I’m hesitant to make conclusions about people based on their level of formal education, and even less enthusiastic about putting formal education on a pedestal.

    That is why we fund it fully then we can make teachers and educators more accountable. As it stands, how does one make a teacher accountable when the states and feds don’t invest properly and thus making the jobs of teachers so much harder?

    I have no issues with people who forgo education as long as they care about it. So am I putting it on a pedestal? Maybe I am, but look at the world and tell me it should be something we fix asap or we will lose.

    For me it’s a cause I care heavily about. I apologize if my rant caused you to think I am slamming people. I am throwing the same crap back at those who believe in this idea that taxing to pay for schools = wrong but taxing us to pay for wars and military bases we do not need = the American way.

    When I think of people in these small towns who care less about this stuff, I think of people who have a tattered American flag on their car antenna who tell me they love America as long as them liberals aren’t running things.

    That is not objective, intelligent nor very American in my book. So if I am slamming people I am slamming those who claim to love America yet allow good guys like you to incur debt to get something that should be a RIGHT…a degree.

  120. 120.

    slag

    November 20, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    @El Cid: True. But southerners are people too. And as far as I’m concerned, Obama should really be most concerned about the west. Which means he’s gotta get some hard work done in order to be appreciated again. Jobs, healthcare, environment. Just to start.

  121. 121.

    freelancer

    November 20, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    @El Cid:

    “Deputy likes dots.”

  122. 122.

    binzinerator

    November 20, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    @bemused:

    Who the hell would stand out there in the freezing temps & damp for hours with their little kids?

    Who the hell still insists a 9-months pregnant woman who got on a plane after her water broke and flew for 8 hours is a role model for motherhood, family and champion of the unborn?

    Same people. Also.

  123. 123.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    Is this telling us more about the performance and public opinion of the President, or more about regional variations in outlook in our nation?

    Regional. No doubt. It’s part of my long winded rant on education. Look at the worst rates of education and they all seem to be in the south.

    Weird.

  124. 124.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    @ Slag:

    True. But southerners are people too. And as far as I’m concerned, Obama should really be most concerned about the west. Which means he’s gotta get some hard work done in order to be appreciated again. Jobs, healthcare, environment. Just to start.

    People who call folks like me elitist because I have a differing POV? Obama needs to do more, I agree 100% and he needs to get cracking soon.

    Problem I see is that too much obstruction to things like the stimulus that appears to be working finally. So whatever Obama tries these people fight. Doesn’t seem very American to me.

  125. 125.

    bjacques

    November 20, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    The thread’s moved along, but I’ll own up anyway. I put primary responsibility for the fiasco on the store based on a couple of book signings I went to a long time ago at a big store in Houston, that had all the charm of sheep being run through the chute to be dipped.

    In any case, failure to pick up on a bad situation, never mind stepping up to resolve it, issuing a belated half-assed apology…that’s the kind of quick thinking I want in my next President.

    If this happens again on the tour, Sarah’s comeback could be bigger FAIL than the 1984 Jacksons Victory Tour.

  126. 126.

    slag

    November 20, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    @The Populist: Let’s be honest. If we want to lead the world again, we’re going to have to start importing more people who have benefitted from a quality education in their native countries during their formative years (and maybe even after higher ed). At least until we get our own education system on a firmer footing.

  127. 127.

    Geeno

    November 20, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Education never stops, IF, and that’s a mighty big IF, you are willing to admit your ignorance and learn on your own.

    Oddly, this is one of the big reasons I went into computers. I knew technology was going to keep changing, and I would always have to keep learning. I learned FORTRAN and COBOL in college. I write aspx, VB, C#, and PL/SQL now.
    It’s also why I’ve tried to stick to technical jobs. I see way too many manager/leader types whose skills have atrophied, and they’ve stopped learning.
    Also – I know what it would take to be, in my estimation, a good manager, and, frankly, that job sucks.

  128. 128.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    @slag: Of course Southerners are people too. I just think it’s bad for the country for us to continue to dominate the national political agenda like we Southerners have for the last 40 years, particularly in the last 20 years via the virtual domination of the Republican Party by its most vengeful, backwards, reactionary elements.

    The point is not whether or not people in different parts of the nation are ‘people’, but whether what is given out as a national average makes sense, given that there is a measurable and strong regional variation, one which matters.

  129. 129.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    That said, I agree that we should spend a lot more on education. But I think we should figure out what we want it to do first. The 8 years not spent addressing this situation, thanks to the enormous distractions caused by 9/11/01, equals millions more American kids who won’t have sufficient skills to do as well as they thought in life. They’ll be pretty pissed off at us when they realize they’ve been conned.

    R-Jud, agreed. My feelings aren’t set in stone. I pride myself on being able to throw out something and listen to all opinions.

    We can do that, sure. Ink has some solid points too. I think deep down we all ultimately agree. If we can’t fix upper education for whatever reason, then let’s make sure we are spending more on the levels you point out.

    I agree we need to do more to keep bring jobs back to this country but the idea that the GOP tries to sell about trickle down is a joke. It needs to be done where jobs are created in new industries that can be subsidized to grow and then the free market will hopefully take over. We need to also enforce anti-trust laws to the fullest. Watching as companies buy up one another in a race to be the biggest is BAD for our economy and it doesn’t help America compete at all.

    Education spending = more
    Job training AND some upper education for those who want it = you’ve sold me as I favor that approach as well.

    For folks like Ink, subsidized education if they want it? Sure, as long as they keep the grades up and the like. Why not? I’ve lived the American dream but I feel it’s gone…long gone unless drastic action is taken.

    I will stop ranting guys…thanks for listening.

  130. 130.

    beltane

    November 20, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    @El Cid: What are the South’s approval ratings in the rest of the country? Sitting here at the northeast tip of the country, I’m giving them a thumbs down.

  131. 131.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    Let’s be honest. If we want to lead the world again, we’re going to have to start importing more people who have benefitted from a quality education in their native countries during their formative years (and maybe even after higher ed). At least until we get our own education system on a firmer footing.

    Problem is you have the same group of Americans I rant against who would whine how wrong you are. I am not fighting you on this…whatever gets America back on track is good with me.

  132. 132.

    calipygian

    November 20, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    @freelancer: Bunk interrogates a Palin fan.

  133. 133.

    Zuzu's Petals

    November 20, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    OT, but all this Sarah talk made me nostalgic for the funniest Palin song ever.

  134. 134.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Of course Southerners are people too. I just think it’s bad for the country for us to continue to dominate the national political agenda like we Southerners have for the last 40 years, particularly in the last 20 years via the virtual domination of the Republican Party by its most vengeful, backwards, reactionary elements.

    El Cid, I travel to Mississippi and Louisiana every year for business. They are people, I rant against some of them but in the end, I am not against any American who can open their mind and they certainly don’t have to agree with me.

    With that in mind, is this element you discuss similar to the kind of people who would tell anybody the south will rise again? Personally, I think America may have been to vengeful on the South after the civil war BUT the south still lost and didn’t seem to want to change anything. I dunno, when I lose big I make changes, but maybe that’s me.

  135. 135.

    You Don't Say

    November 20, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Did anyone see the other video posted at politico? About, I don’t know, 100 people are standing outside her bus, booing and chanting “Sign our books!” and you can hear one guy yelling “Quitting on the job!”

    It’s funny as hell, and fascinating. These people waited all day for this woman presumably out of adoration and when she disappointed them they turned on her.

  136. 136.

    mclaren

    November 20, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Q: What’s the difference between a dominatrix B&D whore and Sarah Palin?

    A: The dominatrix B&D whore kisses you after she pisses in your face.

  137. 137.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Did anyone see the other video posted at politico? About, I don’t know, 100 people are standing outside her bus, booing and chanting “Sign our books!” and you can hear one guy yelling “Quitting on the job!”

    Interesting, so the guy yelling quitting on the job still supported her until she didn’t sign his book? Does anybody think he was the one contrarian there to cause mayhem?

  138. 138.

    slag

    November 20, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    @El Cid: Just saying Obama’s gotta make up ground somewhere. It’s ok if he loses the south (since he never had it anyway), but it’s not ok for him to lose the south and be having serious problems in the west. He can lose one or the other, but he can’t lose both. Given the south’s counterproductive proclivities (and my own sympathies being in the west), I want him to focus his attention on winning the west. Which means getting sh#t done. Period. That’s what’s going to bring the west back, and getting the west back is the only thing that’s going to make the south irrelevant.

  139. 139.

    freelancer

    November 20, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    Meet your daily crazification factor:

    Today, a new birther billboard went up above Wolf Automotive off I-70 in Wheat Ridge, Colorado. The sign has a picture of President Obama wearing a turban, asking, “President or Jihad?” and exhorting, “Wake up America! Remember Fort Hood”
    …
    Wolf also denied that the billboard is making a “racist comment,” calling such a notion “absolutely hilarious” and pointing out that in the presidential election, he wrote in the name of conservative Alan Keyes.

  140. 140.

    LD50

    November 20, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    Palin’s legions of followers are discovering that maybe she doesn’t really love them after all. So now they’re pissed.

    Forgive me if I think this is hilarious.

  141. 141.

    You Don't Say

    November 20, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    @The Populist: There were * a lot* of people booing and chanting. His was an audible unique comment but he was far from the only unhappy camper.

  142. 142.

    Mike in NC

    November 20, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    America may have been to vengeful on the South after the civil war BUT the south still lost and didn’t seem to want to change anything. I dunno, when I lose big I make changes, but maybe that’s me.

    Well, this past week Gov. Mark Sanford (Dirtbag-SC) has found himself a little bit closer to impeachment, for whatever that’s worth.

  143. 143.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Personally, I think America may have been to vengeful on the South after the civil war

    Hardly. Black Southerners are Southerners too, but apparently they don’t ever count as “Southern” because apparently only conservative whites count as “Southern”. As a Southern white who never went along with my neighbors’ white ultra-religionist pseudo-nationalist grievances, I completely don’t buy this. This is not like dealing with one person with a particular ethnic identity — it’s a continuing battle by one particular ethnic and ideological group to try and define an entire region as their own.

    The entire nation would have been better off had a far more interventionist federal occupation been politically possible, complete with the sort of infrastructural and economic development that FDR gave the region when he dragged its backwards, recalcitrant, undeveloped ass out of third world status and made it a functional part of the USA.

    But, look, we simply cannot let one political group — white ultra-conservative Southerners — either steal an entire region or dominate the national agenda because of their own fucked up, reactionary whining.

    The best thing for my region would be for its most reactionary voting population to come to terms with the reality that they don’t dominate the national agenda, that Presidents can get elected without right wing white Southern votes, and they can even win Southern states, and so maybe instead of always demanding that the rest of the country kiss white conservative Southern ass, we might make the most of our actual, real, modern, diversely populated region and participate in politics in a different, saner way.

    That is the point. Where the hell would this tea party nonsense be if it weren’t built on the white ultra-conservative Southern anti-Obama movement? No where. These types of people only talk to each other. They hear everybody bitching about Obama and how awful Stalin-Hitler-Mao he is and it never occurs to them that the whole country does not feel the same way.

  144. 144.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    @slag: Let me tell you something — that is what counts. Doing something for ordinary people.

    You might have some trailer park or rural suburb full of white Southerners or Westerners who may not be the movers and shakers of any political movement, but who go along with this notion of Obama and Democrats in general as some alien force come to destroy their families, etc., etc.

    But if, and I say if, this health care reform happens to let them finally afford health care without worrying about going bankrupt, and covers the whole family, and they’ve never had that, then, you wait. All bets are off.

    You’ll have people who never once thought of voting Democrat remembering who the hell got them health care when it’s time to vote, and they’ll hear all the Republicans vowing to cut it off the moment they get into office. Maybe they’ll still bitch about the Kenyan guy and how NANCY PELOSI WENT TO SYRIA or whatever, but they remember when folks actually helped them out. Particularly when it was really direct, like a particular reform or program, when a lot of the Clinton-era improvements seem to come from less direct origins.

    That’s why Republicans and anti-liberals in general despise and fear this move to make health care more decent, and try so hard to either block it or shitty it up.

  145. 145.

    Veritas78

    November 20, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Dang! I was counting on her being the Republican nominee in 2012. She can’t even satisfy the base.

    But we can count on this: a great spin tomorrow about why she had to quit signing books. My money’s on the Obama weather-changing book-signing saboteurs. Or her water broke again.

  146. 146.

    gnomedad

    November 20, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    @Alex S.:

    From now on, I will call her the Palien.

    In space, no one can hear you quit.

  147. 147.

    parksideq

    November 20, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    Speaking of Prejean, apparently her brother would “probably” watch her sex tape if given the chance. How’s that for conservative family values?

  148. 148.

    Mario Piperni

    November 20, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    My Sarah Palin Tribute

  149. 149.

    El Cid

    November 20, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    @gnomedad: FTW

  150. 150.

    calipygian

    November 20, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    @parksideq: It’s not preeverted until his mom walks in on him jerking off to it.

  151. 151.

    bemused

    November 20, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    @parksideq:
    Their parents are probably wishing Carrie & now the brother would shut up already.

  152. 152.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    That is the point. Where the hell would this tea party nonsense be if it weren’t built on the white ultra-conservative Southern anti-Obama movement? No where. These types of people only talk to each other. They hear everybody bitching about Obama and how awful Stalin-Hitler-Mao he is and it never occurs to them that the whole country does not feel the same way.

    Amen El Cid, great post.

  153. 153.

    The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

    November 20, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    @slag:

    Without looking at the map, doesn’t “The West” include Mormonia, which is really an extension of the South? I think we need to divide the country up properly before concluding that “Obama’s losing the West.”

    Interesting discussion on the value and costs and significance of education. I know many people who are really struggling, and failing, to repay their student loans. I think these loans really are the equivalent of a Flat Tax, or even a Poll Tax, in that everyone is expected to repay them exactly whether they are deriving any benefit from the education or not.

    The reason an Income Tax is fairer than either of those, and Progressive Income Tax fairer yet, is that it taxes those who benefit most from living in a society at a higher rate than those who benefit least. I think something of the kind should be instituted in paying for higher education. If your degree nets you a lot of money, you pay back more; if it doesn’t, you pay back less. Those who really end up cleaning up would conceivably pay back more than they got. The government could administer the fund and adjust paybacks so that it breaks even.

    Hopefully, there would also be some counseling about what specializations actually benefit society in any way, shape, or form, and thus the tide of MBAs might be held back, but I guess I’m dreaming on that.

  154. 154.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    That’s why Republicans and anti-liberals in general despise and fear this move to make health care more decent, and try so hard to either block it or shitty it up.

    Another good post. I have friends and acquaintances who feed me their anti-liberal bias daily. All smart people who just for whatever reason believe liberals want to take their riches.

    They are the biggest elitists. It would behoove anybody to wake up and at least see these people as worse for their own well being than any liberal ever could be.

    I know people with conservative viewpoints who never bother me or judge me for my beliefs. They roll their eyes or look uncomfortable sometimes but they are fair. Why can’t more be like that and we can return to a day where we can meet in the middle on the tougher goals. In the end, if children are learning and roads are paved and people have healthcare and jobs come back it makes the right scared…very scared as that would be the end of their pro-big business peddling ways.

  155. 155.

    Woodrowfan

    November 20, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    On a related note, take a look on eBay., When i looked earlier today there were 90-some autographed copies of her book for sale. Several were going for well over 100 dollars while others have no bids. Palin—>fans, too dim to realize how their beloved free market works. (Hint, wait a few days and you’ll be able to get an autographed copy really cheap as more and more appear on the market.)

  156. 156.

    The Populist

    November 20, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Without looking at the map, doesn’t “The West” include Mormonia, which is really an extension of the South? I think we need to divide the country up properly before concluding that “Obama’s losing the West.”

    Slag has a point concerning states that gave Obama more votes than is usual…Nevada, Montana, Arizona and Colorado.

    Those states are suffering along with California which is a very dysfunctional state as we all know.

    Job losses are steep in Nev, Ari, Cal and Col. California is deep in the hole for potentially 21 billion next year and they can’t cut much else unless they go after public safety (police, fire, prisons).

    Slag is right and Obama needs to get his cajones and tell the right to STFU and we will be doing more stimulus to help (name your state, roads, infrastructure, etc) grow jobs and keep the big states from falling deeper into the financial abyss.

  157. 157.

    Keith G

    November 20, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Read comments from some of the “left behind”. I really love how some of these dumb fucks seen so crushed, “Sarah, I thought you were different.”

    Boo fucking hoo.

  158. 158.

    valdivia

    November 20, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    He is at 60 out west and that means he is ‘losing’ it? I agree there is a lot of work to be done, but if someone is losing the west at 60/59 then I don’t know how he is is going to win anything in this world were 60 is not enough.

  159. 159.

    Leelee for Obama

    November 20, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    In space, no one can hear you quit.

    Full of win!

  160. 160.

    inkadu

    November 20, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    @The Populist: We’re both clearly pissed off and want to beat somebody up.

    I’ve decided that this country has never quite joined the modern world. It’s high levels of religiosity, poverty, jingoism, etc. have never been displaced by centuries of war like they have in Europe. The US is really an imperial country that hasn’t fallen yet. I’m afraid it’s going to take orders of magnitude more misery to beat some sense into the American populace.

    Education is certainly part of the answer but there’s a limit to how much can change as long as education is controlled at a local level. We can get black kids into schools, but it’s hard to get evolution to be taught loudly and lustily.

  161. 161.

    Leelee for Obama

    November 20, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    If I may pretend to be an oracle-Sarah is done. She has finally screwed the pooch too well, and I think she will not recover. We shall see.

    On the Obama not popular in the South-jeez, slap my butt and call me Fanny! There are folks down here who still think we’re in a lull in the fucking Civil War, so that shouldn’t be stunning. I think that the Senate opt-out for the States may be a stroke of genius. Not sure, yet. But, if the red state South opts out, there will be a mass migration out of the many Bumfuckistans here, and then they can figure out how to wait for the fucking Rapture.

    Then the sane people can have a fairly decent country.

  162. 162.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 20, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Celebrity is a treachorous occupation.

  163. 163.

    WereBear

    November 20, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    The losers were given peel-n-stick autographs but this didn’t satisfy, apparently.

    Which strikes me a bit funny; 400 of these things don’t get whipped up in five minutes.

    Premeditation, on some level.

  164. 164.

    Leelee for Obama

    November 20, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    @Chuck Butcher: Chuck, do you mean it’s hard out there for a pimp?

  165. 165.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 20, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    @Leelee for Obama:
    I’m sure the hell glad I don’t work for her.

  166. 166.

    Leelee for Obama

    November 20, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    @Chuck Butcher: Amen to that! I get migraines just thinking about her voice, can you imagine hearing it all day? I so hope she is going to implode, and await developments.

  167. 167.

    Ruckus

    November 20, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    @Violet:
    A whiter shade of pale

  168. 168.

    cj

    November 20, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Someone was stupid enough to take off from work just to get a sign copy of Sarah Palin’s book……Good God.

    I see a pink slip in their future.

  169. 169.

    You Don't Say

    November 20, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Comment at Huffington Post sums it up succinctly: “This is what happens when your base only has one emotion….anger.”

  170. 170.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 20, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    @Leelee for Obama:

    I get migraines just thinking about her voice

    I live in NE OR so I’m used to a bit softer N Yankee accent than Sarah has. She grates.

    But really it’s the stupidity that does it. I do hope the GOP primaries are dumb enough to put her up for POTUS.

  171. 171.

    Shell

    November 20, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    But we can count on this: a great spin tomorrow about why she had to quit signing books.

    Along the lines of ‘well, it was scheduled to end at 9, I had to get to the next event, it was only 100 people who got stiffed, it’s all being blown out of proportion by the Librul media, hey, I’m the victim here!!”

    omeone was stupid enough to take off from work just to get a sign copy of Sarah

    And to drag their kids along with them, to wait in line for hours in the cold rain. “Gee, thanks Mom. You don’t need to get me a Christmas gift this year, this is my present!”

  172. 172.

    HyperIon

    November 20, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    @The Populist: I am a populist in the idea that the common man can be the best they can be.

    Get thee to an English comp class stat.

  173. 173.

    Of Bugs and Books

    November 20, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    I’m not picturing the scene at the book store or something.

    She couldn’t stand up on a chair, say a few words to the people left in line, say her hand was cramped or something, take a couple of questions?

    The crowd would probably have been cheering.

  174. 174.

    Mike in NC

    November 20, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    Hint, wait a few days and you’ll be able to get an autographed copy really cheap as more and more appear on the market.)

    By the end of the year, Caribou Barbie’s “book” will be available on eBay’s ‘Buy It Now’ feature for $2.99 plus shipping, autographed or not…

  175. 175.

    mandarama

    November 20, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    @El Cid:

    Fantastic post, thanks. I’m from Mississippi, born and raised, and though I hit the ground running at 18, I didn’t get too much farther north. So I’ve spent years observing this phenomenon. You nailed it.

    The entire nation would have been better off had a far more interventionist federal occupation been politically possible, complete with the sort of infrastructural and economic development that FDR gave the region when he dragged its backwards, recalcitrant, undeveloped ass out of third world status and made it a functional part of the USA.

    I agree. I used to listen to one of my granddads go on and on about how much he hated FDR–and this was in the 70s and 80s! To me, it’s the same kind of mentality that has people in my hometown yelling about earmarks and pork and gov’t waste while simultaneously screeching about keeping our superfluous military base open because “we need the jobs!”

  176. 176.

    Balloon boy

    November 20, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Hah, those suckers must be RINOs. real teabagging conservatives would take a hit and keep on cheering the ones that screw them.

    what, you want to return the book? this shows you don’t really know how to read.

    Get over it kiddies, queen palin is just giving you a tough love treatment.

  177. 177.

    Anne Laurie

    November 20, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    @Woodrowfan:

    On a related note, take a look on eBay., When i looked earlier today there were 90-some autographed copies of her book for sale. Several were going for well over 100 dollars while others have no bids. Palin—->fans, too dim to realize how their beloved free market works. (Hint, wait a few days and you’ll be able to get an autographed copy really cheap as more and more appear on the market.)

    Bingo! Sounds like the disgruntled Palinista fans may have been locked out because too many people at the front of the line had multiple multiple copies for her to sign — all “for gifts” of course, not because they were hoping to auction them off before the fad crested. And Palin, being Palin, chose to go with the legalism that she stayed for her contracted time block, rather than running enough of a risk analysis to decide that “giving away” the extra time & signatures would pay off in good publicity later. Foresight, it’s her motto!

  178. 178.

    ruemara

    November 20, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    @Zifnab:

    I did all the butt busting. I even took a year off in between most years so I could work full time and afford the next year. Please alert when the middle class success begins.

  179. 179.

    grumpy realist

    November 21, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Hmm. Have had two boyfriends who never got past high school in their formal education. All the rest of my boyfriends had doctorates. Did I notice any difference in their mentalities and their attitudes about the world? No.

    Some of us get our education through the formal methods, some of us through getting it pounded into us by experience. Amazing what a simple desire to learn will do. And formal knowledge can be less than useful. I often think the best type of business education I’ve received hasn’t been been from any classes I’ve taken, but from the war stories I’ve heard from my entrepreneurial friends. (example: if you are having a huge load of customized software that is getting written for you under a very very tight deadline with no time to even document anything, make sure nobody does anything to piss off the head of the software development group…)

    Damn, let’s bring back the apprenticeship system….

  180. 180.

    Yutsano

    November 21, 2009 at 1:04 am

    @grumpy realist:

    Damn, let’s bring back the apprenticeship system….

    In the state of Virginia (and ONLY in Virginia) you can become a lawyer by becoming apprenticed to a member of the bar for either three or five years. It is slightly possible that has changed, but it was true as of at least a few years ago. That was in fact how you became a lawyer in the olden days. Gives one a new perspective on John Adams.

  181. 181.

    Lisa K.

    November 21, 2009 at 9:15 am

    There are two types of people in the world, folks-those who are reasonably attractive and intelligent, and those who would wait hours in a line to plotz at the feet of the Dragon Lady. And everybody knows who is who out there.

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