I’m lying here with Lily on my chest, and while I love Tunch, I honestly don’t think I have ever loved any one or thing as fully and unconditionally as I love this dog. I know there are some of you who will not understand and think this is an attack on Tunch, but it just isn’t. I love him, too.
But this dog is just my once in a lifetime dog. I know how many whiskers she has, I love the feel of her wet nose, and when I look at her it just makes my chest ache I love her so much.
KyCole
That’s so sweet. You just sometimes stumble upon that one dog in a lifetime and it totally rocks!
Saturated Fathead
Great Scott!
That is awfully sweet and open of you to say, JC. God forbid an adult human female (sample gender, modify as appropriate) with the appropriate characteristics (whatever they may be) should cross your path while you’re in this fugue state.
You’d be at the altar (or simlar) before you knew what hit you.
Corner Stone
Ok, someone dial 9-1 and when I say “go” press the other 1.
Cole’s on a wild “mint” high and needs help.
SiubhanDuinne
That brought a tear, and a little sigh of happiness for you and Lily. But is it a two-way relationship? Does she know how many whiskers *you* have? Does she enjoy the feel of *your* wet nose? And do you emit an unforgettable howl when *she* steps on *your* foot? These kinds of probing questions never really arise with Tunch, do they?
Pictures plz?
Wile E. Quixote
Man, if Tunch reads this blog you’re so busted.
Comrade Darkness
God, I could use a pet right now. Something soft and whiskered and pettable. Dealing with wingtard hypocritical loons at the homestead. GAH. Note, if your children only visit on holidays . . . there may be a reason. Newsflash to the olds.
Dave Herman
Having just brought Schmoopy, the cat with the biggest heart I’ve ever known, home from a couple terrifying days in the hospital, I completely understand.
New Yorker
Let’s see, things I’m thankful for…..
I’m thankful that I no longer have mononucleosis, which sidelined me for most of October. And in a strange way, I’m thankful I had mono, because when I went to my doctor for tests to see just what it was that was messing me up, he idly speculated about things he “didn’t think it was”….like AIDS, hepatitis, leukemia…..
I’m also thankful for Kaplan Test Prep, which appears to be the lone company willing to hire bright people and actually train them during this recession. Most of my job inquiries ended pretty much with “well, you don’t have any experience with [computer program X], so we’re not going to hire you despite your Ivy-League bachelors degree, MBA, and 4 years of work experience. What do you expect us to do, spend a week training you to use [computer program X]?”
You BJers will be amused to find that one of the first things they tell you during training orientation is that Kaplan is the largest revenue-generator in the WaPo company.
I’m also thankful that the percentage of Americans who think Palin is qualified to be president, think global warming isn’t happening, and the fraction of Americans “South Park” considers “retards” are about the same (and mercifully low).
plaindave
My mother had a schnauzer named Ginger for 10+ years. Adored her, nursed her during end of life disease, and grieved terribly when she finally died 20 years ago. When I see her and that empty that place in her life, I suggest another dog. I’d even give her my dearest, once in a lifetime, Jack the World’s Best Dog, whom she can’t stop talking about. But she remembers the grief and refuses to ever experience it again.
Mom is wrong. The love is worth it.
Angela
Thanks – those once in a lifetime dogs are amazing, aren’t they? It warms my heart to read your words.
Tunch is a cat – doesn’t that mean he wants to be obeyed, not adored?
Cat Lady
I had that dog once, too. He guarded me, licked my feet until I woke up, and he definitely saved me from a weirdo who I came to understand later would have done me harm. He was my one and only, and last, dog.
I have had several cats all of whom I’ve loved, but I’ve only been truly loved by the one dog I’ve ever truly loved. I miss him every day, and it’s been many years since I said goodbye.
[sniff]
Carnacki
John, I know exactly what you mean.
We adopted my dog Lucy on 7-7-07. She was almost 10 years old, a 100 pound lab-shepherd mix who was much older and much bigger than we intended to adopt. But there was something about her.
She was dropped off at the Martinsburg pound by an elderly lady who had to go into a nursing home. There was a $15 adoption fee, lower than the usual rate since Lucy was a senior dog.
A week after we adopted her, Lucy scared off a burglar climbing in my then 9 year old daughter’s bedroom. I wrote about it here.
For weeks afterwards, whenever I heard a noise or Lucy alerted to something, I raced outside with Lucy. I wanted the burglar to know that people were still ready for him. If he had broken in when we weren’t there, that would have been one thing. But he didn’t. He tried to break into my daughter’s room. Out in the darkness searching for him, I knew Lucy had my back. I knew if I ran into trouble… well, I’d seen her break sticks the size of ballbat handles. A burglar’s arm wouldn’t have lasted long in her jaws.
Lucy began to fade this summer and on July 31, I took her to the vet and stayed by her side, petting her and whispering in her ear as she died. I buried her in the side yard.
Even now, I wouldn’t trade her for all the money in the world.
I need a name for in here
You may have developed an understanding of what it means to have kids.
Just Some Fuckhead
If Lily could blog, she’d prolly say she’s never had a better cat lady.
John O
Jeez, try to be more of a chick, dude.
(Great post, and I understand the sentiment completely.)
Dog-sitting this week, for a nephew, and she’s a mental yellow lab in the Marley mode. I have one cat that I thought would be out and taking over the turf for sure by now, and he’s nowhere to be seen. And all she’s (the dog) is doing is wagging her tail and letting the boys whack her in the face.
Fun to watch. They’ll work it out.
Just Some Fuckhead
@I need a name for in here:
Until you can bury yer kids in the backyard with a stick and a chew toy marking the grave, it just ain’t the same.
MikeJ
@Just Some Fuckhead: We’re liberals here, not a problem.
eemom
Let me just say bless your heart, John Cole, for your love of animals, and especially for these nightly “rescue” threads. There is nothing I value more in this hideously fucked up world than anyone who works to help animals, or children.
And I totally understand the mad love for Lily, as does anyone who has ever loved an animal — and furthermore that it does NOT detract from your love for Tunch. Love multiplies, it does not divide. Someone wiser than I said that.
SiubhanDuinne
@New Yorker: Mono is a right bitch. I’m glad you’re better and very glad it wasn’t one of those other things. (I remember my heart sinking a few years ago when a doctor said to me “I’m ordering a CAT scan. I want to rule out a brain tumour.”)
Despite the general suckitude of 2009, I too have made a list of things I’m thankful for. High on that list are having a good job that I enjoy, Barack and Michelle Obama in the White House, and this wonderful community of Balloon Juicers.
asiangrrlMN
Aw, Cole this is a terribly sweet post. Made me teary. Yes, ok, I’m teary anyway tonight, but still. It’s a blessing what you have with your Lily, and I don’t take it as a diss on Tunchie at all.
However, if you ever decide that you want to send Tunchie my way….
Corner Stone
@I need a name for in here: Fuck you.
lawnorder
Dogs rock, don’t they ?
Love takes all kinds of shapes, is quite possible you love Tunch as much as you love Lily , just in a different way. :)
Robertdsc-iphone
Good for you, John.
burnspbesq
I think I will go outside and scratch Hurley and Laettner for a while. That seems to be the all-purpose Antidote To Everything.
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
2th&nayle
@Just Some Fuckhead: Not to worry, John. Tunch knows your place in his domain. And likewise. Lilly needs you; Tunch tolerates you! Gotta love that cat! Heh heh!
Annie
This is hard. I totally understand how John feels about Lily. Dogs are awesome, and I had one for 15 years that I have never forgotten. My brother and I still share Pepper stories. But, cats are awesome, too.
I never wanted cats. I have two because my stepdaughters wanted cats. They don’t live with us now, but we still have the cats.
And, they, too (the cats), are awesome. I am obsessed with them. One thinks my arm is his pillow, and at night, when he curls up on my arm and sighs, before going to sleep, I just want to cry it is so cute. The other sleeps on my feet, which makes sleeping difficult, but she is so happy, that I suffer with love. And, when I am home, the follow me everywhere.
Cats and dogs are both special in their own ways. You can’t compare. I hope Tunch is equally loved, as ever since I have started following BJ, he has had my heart. He is what he is, and that is wonderful. He, too, needs some “chest” time. Mine do…
ellaesther
Oh John. That is wonderful. Enjoy it!
And happy Thanksgiving! (Again!)
Geeno
That one dog. Sam was her name. An slightly over weight, way-to-big-to-show Black Lab. But she was …. Well you can’t explain it to someone who hasn’t been there. She loved us (my family) and we loved her like no other pet ever would be able to again.
She died 21 years ago; I’ve had a menagerie of pets since, but she was “the one”.
2th&nayle
@2th&nayle: Sorry ’bout that Fuckhead! Must have misclicked. 2th&nayle + 3 Charter; +6 Shiner Bock.
General Winfield Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
lotz
Notorious P.A.T.
Hehe, Corner Stone you are cracking me up. You seem like a cool type, but then break out with the appropos of nothing insults. What’s the deal?
Notorious P.A.T.
Wow! Good dog.
KyCole
I had the best dog ever once. Her name was Kelby and I adored her. She was run over by the school bus in front of my kids. Truly a tragic episode in our lives. I grieved for a long while and never thought I’d see another to approach her awesomeness. Now I have Willie (named after One-eyed Willie from the Goonies) and I must say that she is just as wonderful. There always seems to be another that comes along just as you give it up.
Bad Horse's Filly
I received a call one day from the local Great Dane rescue group, could I pick up one at the shelter near my house and they’d come pick it later that week? I had just lost my beautiful black 4-year old to bone cancer, so I wasn’t looking for another Dane, but the least I could do was this. So I went to the shelter, they brought her out, she gently went up on her hind legs, all 6’6″ of her and put her front paws gently on my shoulders. She looked me in the eyes and said, “I’m yours.”
No matter who came or went in my household, whether two legged or four, it was clear, we were only her entourage. Except the duck. He had her heart and she his.
And I loved her joy in every moment of every day, up until her last day, she was excited by life, everything was an adventure and she loved to be loved and fawned over.
So yes, John, when you say you’ve found your ‘once in a lifetime dog’ I understand completely. Doesn’t mean I didn’t/don’t love all the animals in my life, I do. But she was different and there will only be one of her. And I was lucky she spent 10 of her 11 years with me.
Tunch will understand.
asiangrrlMN
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Hey! You gonn take pics of the Lane Cake before you serve it?
John O
Dogs and cats are just differently lovable.
IMHO, dogs more ultimately so, since you just know in your heart the cat can get by without you, but that’s to their credit from a certain perspective.
John O
@Bad Horse’s Filly:
Lovely, and thank you, since ’tis the season.
Happy Thanksgiving, all. This is a nice place, filled with kind and funny and decent folk. I’m grateful to read it every day.
Bad Horse's Filly
@asiangrrlMN: I have pictures of the outside, tomorrow when it gets cut, I’ll see if we can get pix of the layers. I think it turned out okay, I’ve tasted each individual section, cake, filling and frosting. But it is heavy! I guess it makes sense, it has about a pound and a half of filling in four layers. But I lifted the plate and almost dropped it because I wasn’t expecting it to weigh 3lbs.
asiangrrlMN
@Bad Horse’s Filly: Gotta make sure all the brandy mixes properly. Good luck with it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Notorious P.A.T. I was thinking exactly the same thing, only not as charitably as you. Was kind of guessing maybe Corner Stone + a great large number.
(Bracing for the message telling me to go fvck myself.)
General Winfield Stuck
Getting ready to watch the new BSG dvd called The Plan. About before the war on the twelve colonies and what the cylons were doing, or something.
TaosJohn
Hey John, I DIG it!
Corner Stone
@Notorious P.A.T.: It’s not an insult, just a shot across the bows. I can’t toss off an F-bomb without it being nothing more than a flare?
Anyone who considers owning a pet, no matter how much they are loved, part of the family, anthromorphinized, etc. who even begins to consider that pet as akin to having a child – I say they need to be brought back to reality.
It’s not my job to fact check people here, but when I see someone say something as silly as that, it irks me to the bottom of my irk.
I’ll end my rant there pending further irk-itude.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne: Go fvck yourself.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne:
Actually, I just finished off some nachos.
Cat Lady
Happy Thanksgiving BJ’ers! You can get anything you want, at Alice’s Restaurant.
John O
@Corner Stone:
I think that is fair, CS. But you’re jumping to conclusions, like all of us do, that you’re attitude about pets v children is the “right” one, and until you’ve had one that climbed into your heart, it’s a tough call to make for those of us who know.
Many of us have enough love to go around for both children AND pets. But I’ll grant, again, that it is not easy to make the connection.
SiubhanDuinne
@Corner Stone #44 and #45: LOL, backatcha, and MMMM nachos.
Fulcanelli
@Corner Stone: A once in a lifetime dog can be more loyal, affectionate and understanding when you really need it than some kids may ever be. It’s so cool because words aren’t necessary, and you still understand each other perfectly. Good on ya’ John Cole.
Corner Stone
@Carnacki: That’s a good story. I hope it was just a deer, or the wind, etc.
asiangrrlMN
@Corner Stone: Well, considering that I’ve always wanted cats and I’ve never wanted kids, I would say that I politely disagree with your statement. I don’t think my cats are my kids, but I love them with all my heart and my life is immeasurably richer with them in it (although, they don’t ALWAYS have to lie on me, you know, boys. As they are right now on my legs (Shadow) and right arm (Raven)). Besides, I think the OP was saying that with the way John feels about Lily, he is beginning to approach how some people feel about their children.
@Fulcanelli: Ditto this. You said it very nicely.
John O
@Fulcanelli:
Nicely put.
I got a baby puppy collie, Venus (Mom a bit of a hippy at the time) for my fourth birthday and she was my rock for my formative years. So I admit to a bit of bias.
General Winfield Stuck
Humans cannot match the unconditional love that comes from our best friend, the dog. It is in a completely different realm than children and any comparisons are absurd.
What we get from children is more important because they offer us legacy and continuation as a species. Their love can also not be replaced by a pet. It is unique also unto itself along with heartache. but that takes nothing away from another creature on this earth that accepts you just the way you are , always. No questions asked.
General Winfield Stuck
@SiubhanDuinne:
80 proof nachos.
CaseyL
The only pup I’ve ever had wasn’t really mine: Tinker was the family beagle. If she was any one person’s dog, she was Dad’s.
I’m not sure there’s a “one cat” the way there is a “one dog,” but if there is, Shana was that cat for me. She was a sealpoint Siamese we adopted when I was in junior high school; I “re-adopted” her from my mother in the 1980s and took her with me when I returned to Seattle in ’88. She died at 19+, about a year later, of kidney failure.
Shana had a near-death experience when we were still in Miami. She had stopped eating and was totally lethargic. Her doctor (whose name, I swear, was McCoy. Yes, Dr McCoy!) ran some tests, diagnosed total kidney failure, and dialysized her overnight. When I went in to pick her up, she was still an apathetic Siamese rug. He’d left a shunt in her leg because (as he said oh so gently) I would probably need to bring her back in 3 days to be euthanized.
I nursed her those 3 days. She wouldn’t eat, so I got her favorite foods – roast chicken and bluepoint crabmeat – and hand fed them to her. I put her on the pillow next to me to sleep, and put a water dish on the bed beside the pillow. I carried her to the litter pan and back to bed. I barely left her side – just to go to work, I think, and I only worked a couple miles from where I lived, so I drove home at lunch to be with her.
And the damndest thing: she recovered. I took her back to Dr McCoy – who said, “I’m so so sorry.” I said, “No, you don’t understand” – and opened the carrier, and Shana came out fighting, hissing and spitting – and I said “I need you to take the shunt out.”
She lived for two more years.
I’ve had a few cats since then – Jazz, Rococo, Pamela, all gone; and Ariel, Jeannie, and Oscar, with me now. I loved and love them all dearly. But I don’t think I love them with the same sheer ferocity I felt for Shana, and I think that’s because she was the cat I grew up with.
Now I’m missing her all over again…
John O
@General Winfield Stuck:
Right on, General.
It’s just…different, but not in any way “worse.” Or “less.”
John O +4
Corner Stone
@Fulcanelli: Well, I only have the one child – hmmm…how to say this…
Beyond the living, breathing, mammal part – there is absolutely zero comparison.
I disavow the notions you iterate – I don’t need my son to be loyal in the way a dog/pet is. Or affectionate in a sloppy, unconditional way. I want him, and need him, to be his own person one day.
I’m not going to continue this silly ass analogy.
asiangrrlMN
@General Winfield Stuck: Goddamn it. I’m just going to wait and let you write what I want to say next time. OK? OK!
AngusTheGodOfMeat
I raised dogs (Shelties) when I was a kid, and my once in a lifetime dog was a Sheltie, when I was about ten. The dog was never out of my reach when I was around. We could communicate with glances, that dog and I. Just a little nod of my head and she knew what I was thinking.
I have had a lot of pets since then, cats and dogs, but never one like that dog.
wonkie
I am so happy for both of you, John and Lily.
The dog of my heart ws lassie, a pitbull cattle dog mix I rescued from life as an abandoned dog. (Her person was in jail).
ut I could not adopt Lassie myslef because she is dog aggressive and I have two other dogs. So she got adopted by someone else. I have been told that theyare a very nice couple so I hope they will love her as much as I did.
Steeplejack
@John Cole:
You are the man, Cole.
That’s what has really made this country great–manly yet sensitive men who aren’t afraid to punch a villain in the neck but also aren’t afraid to express their undying love for a lowly trash hound. Roy Rogers, or someone like him, would be proud.
Now, combine all that with a woman of similar substance–i.e., one who can change the wheel on a Conestoga wagon by herself while 9½ months pregnant, dig an arrowhead out of your shoulder with nothing but an OXO paring knife and go toe to toe with a Wells Fargo loan officer on a home refi–and you will have the whole package.
I am totally serious about the above, even as I blow past +2 into the welcoming darkness that brings the Thanksgiving holiday. One of the things that I am grateful for on this day is that I have found an on-line home at Balloon Juice this past year, among what RedKitten memorably called “this delightful rabble.” I thank you all. Have a great day tomorrow.
Corner Stone
@General Winfield Stuck:
Unconditional love isn’t really love at all. It’s mythic and religious-based but it’s not human. Human’s love one another with acceptance and acknowledgement of their faults and weaknesses. We aren’t gods or pets to blindly skip past the things that make us who we are.
To know someone, understand them and love them is a more powerful sort of love than any kind of nonsense notion of unconditional anything.
Corner Stone
@asiangrrlMN: fvck you too.
/joke in case it’s not understood.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: What does “retail” mean?
John O
@Corner Stone:
From one perspective, I’m sure that’s all true.
But try to be a bigger Thanksgiving downer. ;-)
Some might say there is nothing like unconditional love in all of FSM’s creation, and dogs, in particular, are the symbol.
Just Some Fuckhead
All I’m saying is there’s a lot more opprobrium when ya accidentally kill yer kid in the driveway with the car. I ain’t comparing loves.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: I would agree, but the simple fact is I enjoy your locquaciousness too much. Plus I’ve found myself in eerie mindmelds with a couple of BJ’ers now, I just sit back and enjoy the long strange trip.
I just now got my lap back from my big orange fluffball. Not that it would have necessarily kept me from typing, but he was being the needy beast tonight. I think it’s tied to the phases of the moon.
How’s life sweets?
freelancer
@General Winfield Stuck:
Stuck are you underwhelmed yet? Aside from a nekkid bartender, it’s a fucking clip show.
General Winfield Stuck
@John O:
Thank you addressing the CS jabber, so as I don’t have to.
Just Some Fuckhead
If pets were like kids, my dog would get suspended for cleaning his balls in class. Then my cat would get thrown out for shitting in the playground sandbox.
I’d prolly have to homeschool ’em.
General Winfield Stuck
@freelancer:
I was afraid of that. Can’t quit blogging long enough to watch it, but will, cause I paid for it.
freelancer
@General Winfield Stuck:
That’s what I was afraid of.
Anyone out there with Netflix, John Rogers’ instant pick of the week a ways back was the BBC series “Wire in the Blood”. Psychological crime drama more intriguing and fucked up than Se7en and Silence of the Lambs combined.
Huh?
@Corner Stone:
Uh, didn’t you just describe unconditional love?
John O
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Nonsense. That assumes dogs have an equal duty to take everything they give. Which they do.
ellaesther
asiangrrl!
I just wanted to say happy Thanksgiving, honey. I send you many warm wishes, and hopes for safe travels, both literal and metaphorical! (And good food, too. Also).
Corner Stone
@General Winfield Stuck: For someone who so strenuously derides our culture you sure to seem to know alot about our cuisine.
Bad Horse's Filly
Have I mentioned that my cats, who have lived with me from 5 to 8 years, have suddenly discovered turkey and are turning themselves inside out for it? I have no explanation.
Cake is done, kitchen is clean. Thankful I don’t have to cook tomorrow. Off to bed. Have a happy, happy Thanksgiving everyone. Especially you, John Cole.
Corner Stone
@asiangrrlMN: If you go that route you’re going to come off uninformed, and frankly, pretty G-D lame. But to each his/her own.
John O
@Corner Stone:
Jesus, CS, don’t you have a bunch of critters and situations to go yell, “Bah, humbug” at?
I just don’t get it. Not on Thanksgiving Eve.
Joy can be found anywhere.
General Winfield Stuck
@Corner Stone:
I live next door, unfortunately.
Xanthippas
Wikileaks again, because half a million 9/11 texts that might’ve been illegally intercepted seems like a story worth some attention:
This is all that Wikileaks has to say about the source:
Corner Stone
@John O: No, no, no.
I’m uplifting the human spirit. Like Victoria Secret!
Sure, some can be enriched by their relations with pets. And some can even find a revenue stream that way.
But those with kid/s will understand what I’m saying. And those who do not have children never will. And pets == kids.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Sorry, I don’t understand the question (or the snark, if it’s that).
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: Sorry. On another thread I thought you said you had to go to work…ugh (retail).
Corner Stone
@John O: I’m not arguing anything against people loving their pets.
Just simply stating that when people try to compare or analogize it to be = to having kids I will disagree.
That’s all.
Love your pets! Love them like you’ve never loved anyone else!
Perry Como
@Just Some Fuckhead: If I had a kid that could clean his balls in class I’d sell him to the circus.
“Daddy, why are you naked and stuck between the couch and the table?”
John O
Thanks, CS, I will.
The deal is that you’re quantifying the love of dogs and kids, and that is your right. You’re just wrong in asserting that you’re right.
Just Some Fuckhead
If kids were like pets, my teenaged daughter would keep getting stuck in the tree in the front yard while my son snacked on her used tampons in the bathroom.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Yeah. “Retail” means I work in a store, more or less part-time, mainly for the health insurance. It’s a big-box media store–think Big Dalton Noble–that makes half of its year’s revenue in November and December. Things have been heating up the last couple of weeks, and I’m staring at Black Friday–the busiest day of the year–after my mini-holiday tomorrow. The store manager is a marginally competent, bullying martinet, which adds zest to the mix. Good times. Just got home a little after midnight from a closing shift.
Corner Stone
@John O: John, my internet friend I will never meet, if you are asserting that how societally adjusted human beings feel and relate to their child is equivalent to how the same cohort interacts with their pets…well then you are out of your gourd.
I tossed the gourd part in as an homage to your paean to Thanksgiving Eve.
Jason Bylinowski
Oh, believe me, John Cole, I can understand that ache. I have two children. Didn’t know what I was getting myself into at the time, and it certainly is painful to contemplate all the risks of life that they have to face, but…I wouldn’t take it back, either. It’s a bittersweet thing but it’s lovely.
I am a fairly untender soul as a rule of my basic nature (can’t help it though I do try to get past it) but having kids allows me to feel for the first time what it’s really like to love unconditionally. The most compelling force in life.
….On preview, I see I’ve gotten here late to the party. I would not compare a love of one’s own children to that of a dog; it is insulting to both and both are totally different in experience. However, I can say that, for me and mine at least, one is definitely more intense than the other. In the story of my life, one is a kind of practice for the other, but it is not this way for all people. I see that some folks believe themselves not to be cut out for kids, and though it makes me just the tiniest bit sad for those people, I also realize that in the same way it is difficult to prove a negative, it is also very hard to miss a thing you’ve never had. And it could be that there is some REASON out there for the childfree movement that I just cannot ascertain. It’s a big world, which is why I tend to just stay out of the mess of debate altogether.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack:
Do you at least get to bounce people out of there? Or carry your medical files with you? Or say cool shit like, “Pain don’t hurt”? Or maybe rip guys throats out if they have really cheesy 80’s hair?
Cause otherwise it’s just not worth it.
John O
Thanks, CS, no, I’m not.
I’m asserting that they’re different, and so, too, is kids’ relationships vis-a-vis their pets v. their parents, and that trying to equate the two is silly, confrontational (and I LOVE confrontation!), and narrow-minded.
freelancer (itouch)
@Steeplejack:
fsm be with you. Two years ago I was in charge of security at a Target on my first black Friday. It was jarring, disturbing, and maybe the most unpatriotic moment in my life. And for anyone who is obsessed with the idea that consumer spending is the lifeblood of this economy, look at the labels on the shit you’re buying. Tell me that Black Friday is better for America than it is for China. They own our debt and they are richly benefiting from the hallowing out of the manufacturing base of american corporations.
YellowJournalism
John, this was so touching to read. Brought a tear to my eye thinking of my childhood cat, my feline equivalent of what you feel for Lily. The day my parents took me to the shelter to pick out a kitten for my birthday, I knew she was the one the minute I let her little claws hook into my t-shirt. I miss her very much.
@Just Some Fuckhead: My sister’s dog flunked out of obedience school. If he’d been a child, he have been diagnosed with ADHD.
Poor boy is 14 now. He’s gone deaf, has severe arthritis, and losing control of his bodily functions more and more each day. My sister and parents are worried that they’ll soon have to make a very tough decision.
Brick Oven Bill
Our lunchroom with the storage racks is very multi-cultural. One of those bastards stole my jean-jacket.
Shame on me.
Irony Abounds
I’m afraid I’m with Corner Stone on this one (at least his point if not his somewhat unnecessary use of expletives). No way no how can a love of a pet equate with the love of one’s child. I have a picture of my oldest daughter when she was very young, sitting on my shoulders with her arms around my neck and head laying on mine with a look of unconditional love on her face. Absolutely melts the heart. Now she’s in college and prone to call late at night, and whenever that happens, my heart skips a beat just in case something is wrong. In fact that the thought of anything happening to either of my kids is cause for a severe anxiety attack. Pets are great, but they ain’t kids.
eemom
hey, Corner Stone, you know what? You’re an asshole.
I’m a mother of two kids and an animal lover, and I don’t see anything here that equates or compares those two experiences — or any need to do so, ever.
Rather, I think that for some unfathomable reason, you get off on on trashing other people’s joy. I seem to recall some bizarre hatred of the Beatles, some time back, as Exhibit A.
Fuck you and your self-righteous “my love is better than yours.”
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
No, none of that. And it is basically not worth it. One of my top resolutions for ’10 is to get to a place with my software work where I can leave BDN behind. It sustained me through some rough times, but I’m past that now.
Corner Stone
@John O: But that’s what I’ve been saying the whole damn time! What are we tiffing about? Come here you big lug, and let me skritch your belly and rub noses!
Steeplejack
@freelancer (itouch):
Well, I’ve been through it several years now, so I know what to expect. And Big Dalton Noble is a little more genteel than Target or Wal-Mart, where an employee was actually trampled to death on Black Friday a few years ago.
But, you’re right, it’s not a portrait of Americans at their best.
John O
Now that’s a cue, BOB.
I got an old, beloved leather jacket stolen by the valet at the Charlotte Westin, a lovely hotel.
I think they were…white. Or at least dark khaki. Coulda been yellowish, with almond eyes. I think I saw one who was almost purple-black.
But I’m pretty sure the guy I gave my car to was rather pasty. Takes all kinds, no doubt, and my car was no doubt handed out to someone with more melanin. By the boss.
Night, all. Have a wonderful T-Day.
Corner Stone
@eemom: Fuck you dumbass.
Whyn’t you read #13 and get back to me jackie? That wasn’t me and it wasn’t any argument I was making.
I’ve explicitly said this whole fucking time that the two were not comparable.
I never once said people couldn’t feel love for their pets – just that the two could not be compared.
Fuck you and your reading comprehension fail.
Corner Stone
@John O: No nose rubbing?
freelancer (itouch)
@Corner Stone:
So much for cooler heads…
Brick Oven Bill
My denim jacket is gone John O. I left it in the lunchroom storage racks this morning.
John O
@Corner Stone:
:-)
I’m sorry, CS, I mis-read your posts as believing one was qualitatively better than the other. Or more important. Or something.
I agree the human has inherently more value. You know, the kid could grow up to develop a new weapon system, torture device, or disease cure.
The pet can do none of those things. But until you’ve seen personally a dog move into defensive mode just by the smell of what turned out to be a bad situation, person, or other critter, or spin-spin-spin-flop as tight with you as they could under the covers, sigh, and not ask you for anything in the morning except a bite and a walk, and be genuinely, sincerely happy to see you every time you’re gone, 5 minutes to weeks, wildly out-of-control ecstatically happy, well, you have your right to your opinion.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
it appears you’ve got a case of “writing comprehension fail,” since you evidently don’t know what you said.
ellaesther
@Corner Stone: @eemom: May I suggest a hot toddy? Perhaps some of the scrumptious pumpkin-apple pie that I just took out of the oven?
We can’t continue without CS (being as how the corner stone is the beginning of anything) and eemom is — well, my mom, apparently! So, I say to you both: Happy Thanksgiving, and love for all creatures, great, small, and cyber!
/goes back to check the other pie, hopes sleep will relieve some of the giddiness….
Jason Bylinowski
@Brick Oven Bill: Well, DougJ – ahem, I mean BoB … Lord forgive me for sounding gayer than Richard Blackwell here, but darling that’s what you get for choosing to wear denim anywhere above the waist.
Corner Stone
@eemom: Nice try jackson. Quote it for all of us then.
Please quote right here and now where I said the two are worthy of comparison, or where I said people should not feel love for their pet.
Or as you put in quotes – where I ever said “my love is better than yours.”
Please, please do so. You can not. Until you can – fuck you.
Yutsano
@ellaesther: Mmm…hot toddy…and you may have to keep that pie a safe distance from me.
Have to work an early shift tomorrow have a good night y’all.
Corner Stone
@ellaesther: I’m not much for hot toddy’s actually. And I’m certainly not much for someone trying to pin some bullshit on me I never said like eemom is trying.
But I appreciate your thought. Happy Thanksgiving.
Yutsano
@Jason Bylinowski: There is no shame in expressing your inner metrosexual dude. Plus we all have a little gay in us, I just have more than most folks. :)
Corner Stone
@John O: Mmmm, new weapon system spread through 47 Congressional Districts for procurement purposes…delicious.
Corner Stone
@freelancer (itouch): I’m not sure where you got that notion.
Have you subscribed to my newsletter?
Steeplejack
@Jason Bylinowski:
LOL.
Andy K
@Brick Oven Bill:
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and reading your usage of “multi-cultural” to mean “Vietnamese- Americans and portly Italian-Americans “, and “bastards” to mean “time-travelers from the late 1980s”.
So if any of you see Peter DeLuise and Dustin Nguyen, please contact the FBI so B.O.B. can get his bad-ass jean jacket back. Thank you very much.
eemom
“John, my internet friend I will never meet, if you are asserting that how societally adjusted human beings feel and relate to their child is equivalent to how the same cohort interacts with their pets…well then you are out of your gourd.”
Oh no, nothing judgmental about that.
Nighty night, asshole.
Corner Stone
@eemom: Hmmm – “not equivalent”…is that the best you can do?
Don’t back off now jackass. You got nothing and you’re running cause you called me out with zip, zero, zilch.
You probably should sleep it off.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Dude, you’re splitting hairs. @This is you at #43:
Call me crazy, but I think any reasonable reader would read that as saying, or implying, that pet love is not as good as, or on a lesser plan than, child love.
Maybe you should checkity-check your irk.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: That’s not splitting hairs – that’s consistent with my entire argument. They aren’t the same, not comparable, no basis for such.
Am I wrong to state flatly that having a pet and having a child are not the same and can’t be compared?
Steeplejack
@Andy K:
Did Members Only make a denim jacket back then? This could help in the investigation.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack:
Oh, BTW – eres loco.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Based on my reading of the thread, nobody has a problem with that. What they have a problem with is your (seeming) contention that the pet lovers are “silly” and need to be “brought back to reality.”
There’s room for both. As someone upthread put it, love multiplies, it doesn’t divide.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack:
It’s your right to read into the statement anything you like. But it’s clear that no where do I say that loving a pet is wrong or not good or rewarding. I say over and over and over – there’s no comparison and people are silly to state such things.
freelancer (itouch)
Frackin flame war over pedantic supremacies in iterations of love.
Jesus Christ.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Where’s my smallpox blanket?
Andy K
@Steeplejack:
IIRC, they were only either nylon or leather. And maybe I was blinded by the sheer elegance of the design, but I only recall them coming in one color: Douche.
Colette
Golly. I hardly know what to say in the face of all this snark/wit/bombast/dudgeon except this, as Thanksgiving rolls from your side of the continent toward mine:
I’m pretty damned thankful, and I hope you all find reasons to be, too, for good reasons and bad, for little things and big ones, for kids and parents and blogs and dogs (and hogs!) and woolly hats and shedding cats and turkey and tofurkey and homemade caribou jerky. FSM bless you all, my children.
Colette
Golly. I hardly know what to say in the face of all this snark/wit/bombast/dudgeon except this, as Thanksgiving rolls from your side of the continent toward mine:
I’m pretty damned thankful, and I hope you all find reasons to be, too, for good reasons and bad, for little things and big ones, for kids and parents and blogs and dogs (and hogs!) and woolly hats and shedding cats and turkey and tofurkey and homemade caribou jerky. FSM bless you all, my children.
Colette +>1
Steeplejack
@freelancer (itouch):
Would you like beads with that?
Andy K
@Andy K:
but I only recall them coming in
one color: Douchetwo colors: Douche and Middle Age.Corner Stone
@Andy K: I hope you’re wearing nomex undies because you have been on FIRE all damn day.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: I’ll take Manhattan thankyouverymuch.
Andy K
@Corner Stone:
The fire’s all I got left, pal. I’m a Buddhist monk making his last protest.
Steeplejack
@Andy K:
Hey, I have to confess that I had a gray wool one that I bought at Nordstrom in San Francisco after a memorable COMDEX in Vegas and then some Apple show in S.F. Wore the hell out of that thing for several years and thought I was the Man. Never saw another one like it. (Which is why it made me the Man.) Good times. You can’t buy memories like that. Wait, what? Is that Journey I hear?
Andy K
@Andy K:
Shit. Don’t take that the wrong way. I won’t go down without tryin’ to make the best of it.
@Steeplejack:
Kudos on the bravery tou show by copping to that. Thank the gods that I don’t have to. ;D
Corner Stone
@Andy K: What are you protesting? This time?
Steeplejack
@Andy K:
Hey, I’m old. There is much for which I must atone. LQTM¹.
[¹ LQTM = Laughing quietly to myself.]
mcd410x
I’m not sure what direction I thought Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions would take, but it certainly wasn’t the one they took.
Steeplejack
@mcd410x:
Yeah, saw that those were on earlier tonight, but I forgot to DVR them.
Most people forget how the Wachowski brothers really blew it on the second and third movies. Nothing like a huge pile of Hollywooden money in your lap telling you that you’re a genius. What could go wrong?
I think for Hollywooden directors we should revive the Roman custom of having a dude ride behind you in the chariot and whisper “Vanity, vanity” in your ear.
freelancer (itouch)
@Steeplejack:
Beads?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgXwYWqd9Y
Bzzzzzzzzzz!
Corner Stone
@mcd410x: I think they’re a metaphor for illegal aliens in our modern society.
Andy K
@Corner Stone:
Again: Shit! I knew that was too vague to be read the way I meant it.
Okay, if there’s anything I’ve been protesting- other than that a Windows update just hijacked me- it’s the fact that those Williams guys from the Vikings haven’t been suspended. That and people who complain about flouride in the water. And the last few seasons of SNL. And that everyone thinks that Sarah Palin kicked off her book tour in Grand Rapids (it was in Kentwood) . And the Seven
Wonders of the WorldSamuraiDeadly SinsLiberal Arts. And lack of sleep due to the college kids who live in my building. And curmudgeons. But that’s about it for right now. Goodnight!Steeplejack
@freelancer (itouch):
Yeah. Beads. I love Arrested Development. Isn’t there a movie in the offing?
Steeplejack
Man, is anyone else still up? I can’t get that Journey clip out of my mind. I think I’m falling into a Floyd hole or something. If I’m not back by tomorrow morning, tell Mom I loved her.
freelancer
@Steeplejack:
Yes, Hurwitz is writing the script right now.
http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/the-arrested-development-of-the-arrested-development-movie/13222
More than halfway done scriptwise, hopefully this movie gets released by late 2010.
JK
@Steeplejack:
All glory is fleeting.
It hasn’t come back from the laundry.
I’ll take Brooklyn Queens, Staten Island, Westchester, Nassau, and Suffolk.
NobodySpecial
Way too late for the OP, but I’ve gotten lucky and gotten my one cat twice.
The first one I got when I was about 14 or so. We called him Cat. No other name fit the bastard, trust me. He was the sould of the meanest farm cat ever devised plunked down into the body of a larger than usual city cat. He went where he wanted, did pretty much what he wanted, and he was devoted to exactly two things: Breeding and me. I remember more than once that damn cat would walk with me to work, and do whatever it was he did outside while I worked, and when I left, there he’d be. Finally he disappeared about 3 years later, and left me with one of his kids from a sister’s female.
As far as Scooter goes, she’s 20 now. For a good number of years, she took after her old man. Somewhere along the line, she got an eye scratched so that you can still see the imperfections in the cornea. She used to bring me back lots of presents – mice, birds, the occasional bat.
Anyways, for a few years, I had to leave her in the company of my sister, who reported on occasion that she had turned completely unmanagable. Not long after I got her back, she’d turned into the most adoring cat you’ve ever seen. She stays indoors now, except a few times a year when she decides she wants some air, and she plops on the porch and never moves. She greets me at the door when I get home from work, she walks me to the door when I go to work, and she spends about half her waking day on my lap. And I know my heart will be broken when she finally goes.
D-Chance.
Happy early X’giving Morning to all BJ’ers.
Macy’s, food, balloons, second-tier NFL football, food, Christmas ads galore, and food.
gotoL
A boy and his dog. Sigh.
Reminds me of this. Watch it if you dare.
Clown, Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0yu9-wC3jc
Clown, Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9XHUYxR8Kw
Don’t forget the Kleenex and have a happy Thanksgiving
demkat620
What a nice post to wake up to! She loves you too John.
Happy Thanksgiving Juicers!
A Mom Anon
Happy Bird Day everyone! I’m not a regular commenter,but I read this blog every day. I could not think of a more motley but (mostly,lol) awesome bunch of people on these here interweb thingys.
harlana pepper
I am thankful for Mr. Cole’s transformation into a progressive and the fact that he is completely unaware that the Super-secret Underground Animal Mind Control Movement to Save the Humans From Themselves is directly responsible for same
swalker
Hey, John. Ya know, I woke up with Athena (who is my once-in-a-lifetimer) wrapped so tightly up in my legs that I could hardly move, and I realized for the millionth time how much I adore her. My husband feels the same – and he said something to me the other day that floored me – that whenever it comes time for her to leave us he’s gonna have to take a long time off work just to start to deal with it (my husband is a workaholic.)
Then I read your post and all of these comments and I realize how common this experience is.
Happy Thanksgiving to a blog and its readers that truly are teh awesome.
JenJen
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your little animal family, John!
I understand how you feel completely, because it’s exactly how I feel about my dogs. Dog Love: You haz it!
So much to be thankful for this year, eh?
HRA
Very nice post, JC.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Keith G
@A Mom Anon: Hi Mom. Haven’t seen you in a while. Hope all is well, or well enough.
Maude
We don’t have to go anywhere to have a family fight. We are a family and we fight here just fine.
JSF-win on the burial post.
valdivia
Late to the thread but have to say it–that is the sweetest post ever ! I think we all get it John. And we know you love Tunch. Even if we tease you about it.
Happy Thanksgiving!
RedKitten
That is just so sweet. Lily is such a lucky doggie. Our relationships with our pets are so fulfilling, mainly because there’s just no baggage. Our love for them, and their love for us, is so pure and so uncomplicated.
SiubhanDuinne
A very happy Thanksgiving to all Balloon Juicers, their friends, families, and beloved animal companions. Whenever and whatever you eat, bon appetit, and for those who are traveling, stay safe.
dan robinson
This is getting to be pretty fucking pathetic.
Man up.
SueinNM
Wow. I’m usually a lurker (I read BJ four times a day) and I’m late to this thread, but wow. Corner Stone, you’re really a jerk.
I don’t want kids. Knew I didn’t want them since I was 14. Don’t particularly like to be in their company, except for short stints with my nephews. My husband is equally happy not to have them. We still gladly support your kid’s schools with our taxes and donate to charities that help kids. We recognize the value of children, especially loved, educated children. People who want kids and can raise them with love are the ones who should have them.
I’ve always had pets, and have loved them deeply. I have thee dogts and two cats now (all rescues). Don’t feel “sorry” for me that I don’t want kids. I feel no empty ache, no regrets, and am extremely relieved to have made the decision I did.
Where does this deep anger come from, CS?. It’s clear you has a major bee in your bonnet about this. I wonder what else your so angry about.
And yeah, I know, “fuck you”, etc. etc. There, I said it for you.
SueinNM
Oops. When I said “educated” kids, I meant “kids everywhere deserve a decent education.” Clumsy of me.
dan robinson
I’ve got one cat on my lap as I write this, the other is on the sofa next to me. These are the cats my kids said they wanted. They were sickly when I got them and they both went into heat that week, but I got them healthy and fixed. They sit in my lap and purr.
But they are cats with a brain the size of a lime. Love? Give me a break. The are mostly acting on instinct without cogitation.
I read the pet stuff here and I think a lot of you people are soft in the head.
General Winfield Stuck
@SueinNM:
From the little worm at the bottom of his tequila jug/
RedKitten
@dan robinson: Sorry, can’t agree with you there. If animals were incapable of love, and acted purely on instinct, then they would not really care what person fed them, as long as they were fed, correct?
So how do you explain this?
Or this?
Or this?
Or even the everyday events? When my husband and I went to Europe for two weeks, we left our elderly Lhasa mix with his parents. He was extremely well cared-for (actually, he was spoiled rotten, to tell the truth.) If he had operated purely on instinct, his loyalties would have shifted to them, as he was making out like a bandit. But when we got home, that little dog just about turned himself inside-out, he was so excited. And he came home with us, without a backward glance.
So, we might be soft in the head, but you’re hard in the heart.
RedKitten
I can haz out of moderation hell nao, plz?
estraven
Well. I mostly don’t like dogs–there have been exceptions–and I don’t think I’ll ever learn to. I don’t like their blind devotion–to me that’s kinda sad. I love cats for their independence and aloofness. They have a dignity that dogs just usually don’t. (Cats get embarrassed but don’t know shame; dogs know shame, but not embarrassment, etc.). Plus, after watching the Dog Whisperer, I know I don’t ever want to be a pack leader. I will take complicated love over unconditional love, thanks. I don’t need or want unconditional love. If I can’t get it from a human, well then. That’s just how I roll.
Raenelle
I have two theories.
First, everyone we love has a place in our heart. It’s their place, and no one else can ever occupy it; each place is unique, unlike any of the other places. It’s why you really can’t replace a lost love. You can carve out a new niche, but you can’t remove the hole left by the other.
Second, the reason Lily is so special–combo of being a really great dog that totally fits JC, AND “the love you take is equal to the love you make.” The investment of the rescue just about guaranteed she’d have an especially prominent place in JC’s heart. Selflessness really does enlarge your heart and life just as selfishness crabs them.
mandarama
@freelancer (itouch):
And firewater–don’t forget that. We need it to go with all the delicious pie Corner Stone is bringing to the feast.
John, it’s obvious that you couldn’t be a wingnut all your life–you’re not hyper-anxious enough about public displays of what passes for masculinity these days. Good on you for your emotional and intellectual honesty. Give Lily and Tunch some turkey and enjoy all your blessings. My husband and I and our two boys and our emphatically-schooled-that-they-don’t-matter-as-much,-by-FSM! pets will be doing the same!
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Hiya. I cut out of the thread because I had no desire to get into a pissing contest and because I’m still wicked sick with a sinus infection. Good to see ya, though. Have missed chatting with you lately. Happy turkey day to you and yours, and I hope your dawg is safe and healthy.
RedKitten
I’ll just re-post my earlier comment sans links, as all the moderators are probably gorging themselves right now:
@dan robinson: Sorry, can’t agree with you there. If animals were incapable of love, and acted purely on instinct, then they would not really care what person fed them, as long as they were fed, correct?
So how do you explain this? (Link to Greyfriar’s Bobby)
Or this? (Link to Hachiko)
Or this? (Link to Shep)
Or even the everyday events? When my husband and I went to Europe for two weeks, we left our elderly Lhasa mix with his parents. He was extremely well cared-for by them (actually, he was spoiled rotten, to tell the truth.) If he had operated purely on instinct, his loyalties would have shifted to them, as he was making out like a bandit. But when we got home, that little dog just about turned himself inside-out, he was so excited. And he came home with us, without a backward glance.
So, we might be soft in the head, but dude…you’re hard in the heart.
Corner Stone
@SueinNM:
It can not be denied.
However, people are reading a lot into this that I never said, nor implied. I never once said people who don’t have kids are sad, or empty or anything. One of my best friends has known since high school that he would be an awful parent and never, ever would have kids. “Some of my best friends are -black- childless!”
I didn’t say, nor imply, that people who loved their pets with all their hearts were bad or crazy or anything.
I’m not interested in re-litigating this.
And I’m angry about a lot of things, none of which have anything to do with how people feel about their pets.
If you read this blog, among others, and aren’t at least a little miffed then goodonya.
The original “F U” @21 should have been something more like – Well, the drapes are a nice plum and they go with the tile nicely but I thin..huh, whuhh…did you just say loving a pet gives someone an understanding of what it means to have a child? I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree sir and/or madame.
Corner Stone
@Andy K:
Man, if you’ll light yourself on fire to protest these things then you win the trophy for self-conviction.
Or nitpickery. One or the other.
Corner Stone
@mandarama:
I prefer chocolate pie myself. And not the poofy mousse kind either, but the good old chocolate pudding kind of chocolate pie. With whip cream where available.
Corner Stone
@SueinNM:
I didn’t say anything anywhere even remotely close to this. I don’t think you’re telling *me* this.
Terri
There is nothing sadder than a nasty, self loathing queen. Don’t believe me, go ask Alice.
There I said it.
General Winfield Stuck
@Terri:
But she’s ten feet tall.
Michael D.
…if Tunch was lying on you, it would make your chest ache for a host of different reasons.
Jackie
Welcome to the fully human race, John.
AngusTheGodOfMeat
@Irony Abounds:
Well, having rescued more animals than probably all of you put together (couple dozen), mostly cats, and having raised dogs as a kid and kept a number of them for pets, and been quite close to all those pets …. I still have to say, I agree with you.
I’d put it this way. For my granddaughter, Maci, and her brother Quinton, or my significant other, I’d throw myself in front of a train to save them. I’d bankrupt myself to pay for their medical care (and luckily I live in America where I can do just that).
For the pets, I’d do anything I could to save them short of throwing myself in front of a train or going bankrupt.
Not the same level of commitment. I miss every animal I have had that has passed on to the great hunting ground in the sky. But it’s not the same as losing a child or other loved one. No reflection on the critters. It just ain’t the same.
However, I’ve had a couple of dogs that would have sacrificed themselves for me, I’m sure. So, there you go.
What does all this mean? I have no idea, I’m just a farm animal at heart.
bago
Let the ball removal begin.
dan robinson
Commenters on this site excoriate wingnuts for exhibiting weak thinking, and I appreciate that. I extend that excoriation to weak thinking of all stripes. I didn’t say that all animal behavior was instinctive. Some is learned. But you really have no idea why the dog ‘turned himself inside-out’ in terms of dog behavior. The alpha dogs of his pack exiled him to another pack and, while the other pack was able to hunt a can of dog food as well as his own, he wondered when he would get to see his pack again. His alpha dogs decided to let him back into the pack. He didn’t know why he had been exiled, so he really didn’t know which rule to observe in the future.
You don’t know me and you don’t know what I went through to get the two cats who now live with me healthy, so please don’t call me hard in the heart. What I don’t do is project human characteristics onto these two animals, because that is weak thinking.
What I am not is blind in the eyes.
RedKitten
@dan robinson: Well, suit yourself. If you prefer to think of their actions based solely on instinct and pack mentality, that’s totally your prerogative. And if I (and others) choose to think that animals can actually feel love and devotion, then that’s our prerogative. I think you’re underestimating your animals (and are being more than a little snotty towards those of us who think differently from you), and you think that I (and others) are weak-minded. So be it. Our thinking is doing no harm whatsoever, so I would suggest that you shift your focus to excoriating those whose weak thinking actually DOES do harm to others.
dan robinson
Yes, you can have your own beliefs, but not your own facts. Your believing something about the emotional state of you dog does not make it fact.
So, if you point out the weak thinking in wingnutland and react with snot toward the ‘nuts, that is okay? Oh, I see. That wouldn’t be a double standard because it is you.
I find it hard to respect people who project their perceived emotions onto an animal from another order. I don’t link to this site or recommend it to others because of the sappy crap people write here about their pets.
I can accept that you find some form of emotional fulfillment in your relationship with your pet. Whatever.
Corner Stone
@Huh?: No. I did not.
AngusTheGodOfMeat
“I didn’t buy this Hyundai because I hate the unions.”
And look out for Hershey bars, those southeastern Pennsylvanians are pretty conservative. I mean, Hershey is almost in Amish country.
( rolls eyes )
RedKitten
No, but you asserting that animals do not experience emotion does not necessarily make it fact, either. It’s a topic that is pretty hotly contested amongst scientists. Research actually does suggest that dogs experience emotions in a similar manner to humans — obviously it’s a difficult thing to quantify, as there’s a bit of a communication barrier there.
There is still so much that just is not yet known about how animals’ minds work, which is why I took issue with you being snotty and acting as though we’re a bunch of naive idiots who are simply ignoring the facts. The facts aren’t all in yet. So believe what you like, and we’ll believe what we like, but you might want to refrain from acting like your beliefs are so much more rational and fact-based than our “weak-minded” ones, because they’re not.
kay
I don’t love dogs and cats as much as you-all, although that dog is very cute. I think I get it, though.
My daughter loves pets, and she collected several. Then she got older and busier and I sometimes had to feed them.
I told her “I fed the animals”.
She was offended.
She said ” The animals? Like the GIRAFFE or the BADGER? They have names, and they’re PETS”
Yutsano
@kay: That’s interesting. We make the distinction between the animals that are there for food versus those that we have for pets. Not that I eat my chickens, just collect the eggs, but they’re mostly around for that. Well that and they are entertaining. A couple of friends of mine just got three hens and are having the time of their lives with them.
HyperIon
@Yutsano: A couple of friends of mine just got three hens and are having the time of their lives with them.
I love my three hens but I never let them sit on my chest.
I think humans automatically bond to animals they become familiar with.
Sasha
. . . you are so fucked.
:)
I need a name for in here
So I get a “fuck you” for understanding the ache in John’s heart over his love for his pet? I really don’t understand why and I was really surprised to see that. I was relating only to the feeling he had and expressed, having known for 16 years the ache in my heart, both painful at times and incredibly fulfilling most others from having kids. I was not making any comparison of a dog or a cat to a human, only an understanding of the feeling expressed. So fuck you right back at you.
And Happy Thanksgiving. Also. Too.
Lesley
I can totally relate to what you say, John Cole. Been there, felt that with several dogs. And every dog – ok most dogs I meet, and even those I’ve only encountered on the Internet, pull at my heartstrings.
You and Lily are soul mates.
There’s just something about a dog, and the connection between humans and dogs that is so special. You have to be a dog person to understand it.
And yes, your love for Lily doesn’t detract from your love for Tunch. After all, it’s your affection for both that inspires the affection each of us have for your critters. Beings we’ve not actually met.
turtle
My sister used to call her cat her fur-baby. Which seems to be the case here.
You’re so adorable John Cole :) And as a girl with a shuddering aversion to middle-aged men outside my immediate family, I do not say this lightly.
But don’t forget to cuddle Tunch as well!
Chuck Butcher
I’ve had a number of dogs in my life, a couple that were exceptional. I fully understand the pack theory and dominance in pack and I do not anthromorphise my pets. One of the reasons I have had dogs that everybody seems to like is that I don’t place human abilities onto them, I don’t expect them to make intellectual connections that are beyond them. Training and discipline are based on their limitations.
I am an alpha in relationships with humans, I certainly am that with dogs. I will not pretend to know what a dog’s emotional life is, that they have one is clear. I do know that in Gus’ eyes I am what counts most. When I go missing for a few days, he will neither eat nor drink and when I return I cannot get out of his sight for hours on end. Gus is independent as dogs go, if he knows I am around, he doesn’t need to see me or be by me, my absense is another thing. I owe him back, I return his affection and that affection is more complex than a pack relationship.
I had a 135# dog take on a 250# man and do tremendous damage in the face of a weapon and a beating and save my life. The same dog once licked a baby’s hands off his tongue when the baby hung from it after climbing his legs. That was a painful insult to the dog, he hated having his mouth messed with, but he showed absolute judgement in the face of his basic instincts. (not my baby)
Researchers have found that many dogs demonstrate extemely complex behaviors in regard to their masters and humans in general. The arc endpoints and direction of a tail wag seem to vary depending on the dog’s regard for a human, for example.
We anthromorphize words for dog’s emotions because we aren’t dogs and don’t have dog thoughts or words to express them. It certainly is a mistake to think that because we use the word that it means the same thing to a dog/animal as it does to us, but it is the word we have. Hell, you can watch humans and pretty quickly see that we understand and express emotions differently than each other quite frequently and don’t even mean the same thing by the same words.
This is the first Thanksgiving since my son Nick killed himself – it has been pretty complex, even more so since we just had my son Matt’s wedding. I don’t even want to think about Christmas and my wife at Christmas. We went to a restaraunt out of town for dinner. I think Christmas may involve the Southwest, at least not at home.
CS, in his artless way, had some things right but there have been some pretty serious misses as well. It is starting to look as though most animals have emotional lives, including our food. Considering how little we understand each other, that ought to be a fine conundrum.
Steeplejack
@Chuck Butcher:
Condolences on the loss of your son, Chuck. I know it is a loss that can never be retrieved.
aimai
Chuck, that was a beautiful post on dogs and their capabilities, and a heart breaking post about your son. I am so sorry for you, your wife, and your other family. This is a terrible grief that you are going through.
aimai
Corner Stone
@I need a name for in here: Yeah, my bad. It sounded in my head more like “Fuuuuccccckkk yoooouuuu”. And wasn’t so harsh, but more like exasperated.
I just disagree to my core with the notion, but I’d never say it’s wrong to feel whatever it is people feel for their pets.
So, could’ve handled that differently. I apologize, a little late.
ken adler
the quote in this link made me think of your posting
http://www.filmforum.org/films/oldpartner.html
ken
I need a name for in here
@Cornerstone: No problem, for me there’s no comparison between my kids and my pets, the significance of my kids to me goes beyond anything else in my life. I do love my pets and when we’ve had to put one down it’s an extremely sad but not near the life-changing event that the loss of a child would be, as is and was the loss of a child as described by Chuck above.
Chuck, I feel for you and I hope that you and your family can get through this, I can’t imagine the pain you’re feeling.
allun
Man! I’ve had so many dogs in my life. All were so much more into unconditional love than us monkeys get to. My current “bestest dog that ever lived”, (they live such quick lives!), is named Cleo. She’s so smart i wonder how i maneged before her. My whistle has somehow managed to degenerate into something i can’t hear, but she comes running. Now and then she snipes something out of the kitchen, but she absolutely knows she’s forbidden to go there…
Nevertheless she’d give up her life to defend me or what she thinks is her territory, as my 4th to last dog did.