Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Everybody saw this coming.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

A Senator Walker would be an insult to the state and the nation.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

The words do not have to be perfect.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

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Reader Interactions

117Comments

  3. 3.

    General Winfield Stuck

    We are all corporate whores at some level, some just get paid better is all.

    and that is snark/mostly

  5. 5.

    D-Chance.

    Bah, send them $5 and go to sleep… you might even dream about those MUPs. /grins

    What a fabulous day.

  9. 9.

    JGabriel

    Just saw this AP headline over at TPM: Five Americans Captured In Pakistan Probed For Terror Links

    I’ve nothing to say about the story per se, just wanted to comment on the headline. You see, after 8 years of the Bush/Cheney Torture Administration, I’m thinking maybe “probed” is a poor choice of verb for that kind of story and headline.

    As it turns out, they’re apparently being held by Pakistan, and aren’t, as far as the story says, being probed in either the cattle or alien abduction sense. Nor in the sense of merely being questioned.

    So not only is it a poor verb choice, it’s not even very accurate. In other words, typical AP.

    .

  10. 10.

    tavella

    The problem with the pie filter for me is that I have to save it to edit it, and then it throws an error when I try to open it to load. I wish there was a version like the one at atrios where you just get an option next to the name to auto-ban ’em.

  12. 12.

    Jason Bylinowski

    Yeah, this is news, see, because at least this time it’s Dems who are screwing over the Dems, instead of Republicans doing the deed.

    …Wha? Dems eat their own all the time, you say? Well then, nothing to see here, I guess.

    I am starting to really believe that, even though we just barely got ourselves up out of a Greatest Depression, the end result is just going to be some very specific measures which may prevent the same exact fiscal emergency (or may not, as everybody I’m reading lately is already pulling back to CDS regulation reform). Slap a band-aid on it and let the beatings begin, I guess.

    But what of all these “systemic causes” that noone seems to agree on? Is there no such animal as an unbiased economist who can perhaps steer the country the right way? I was almost happy when all this happened, if for no other reason than this: I thought it would ultimately strengthen the economy and perhaps give liberal fiscal policy people a new lease on life, but I can see that this is not going to happen, although there are some people out there trying very hard to be heard. You know, GHW Bush was half-right when he castigated against Reagan’s BS as “voodoo economics”, but he didn’t go far enough.

    All. Economics. Is. Voodoo.

    Because if economists such as Mankiw and Krugman can both be considered masters of their field and be so far off from each other in their conclusions (and this happens all the time), then the only thing keeping a nobody like me from breaking in with my own “genius” ideas is a paper-thin veneer of plausibility which one can easily acquire at any reasonably well-regarded University. Fuck all these assholes. If the Republicans are in any way correct in their assessment that we have too many “experts” and not enough “deciders”, economics would be the single field of study on which Republicans and I can find agreement.

  13. 13.

    mr. whipple

    Because if economists such as Mankiw and Krugman can both be considered masters of their field and be so far off from each other in their conclusions (and this happens all the time), then the only thing keeping a nobody like me from breaking in with my own “genius” ideas is a paper-thin veneer of plausibility which one can easily acquire at any reasonably well-regarded University

    My advice: be as dour and cynical as possible. If things do go to shit(as the inevitably do) you can say yer a genius. And if yer wrong, no one ever remembers.

    But cynicism drives hits and page views. You might even make the cover of Time.

  14. 14.

    Joe K.

    @Jason Bylinowski:

    … the only thing keeping a nobody like me from breaking in with my own “genius” ideas is a paper-thin veneer of plausibility which one can easily acquire at any reasonably well-regarded University. Fuck all these assholes.

    Yes, that. A few months ago I read David A Moss’s “A Concise Guide to Macroeconomics”, and by the end of it all I could think was, “They give Nobel prizes for this?” They come up with a theory that sorta accounts for the data they like, use it like gospel to run policy, and then wonder why things come crashing down.

  15. 15.

    Jason Bylinowski

    Aside: & by the by, why the hell am I never on this site at a time when everybody else is? It’s only 12:30am EST, people! I need a nice slow work-week so as to keep up with the social whirl that is Balloon Juice.

  18. 18.

    Jason Bylinowski

    @mr. whipple: If being dour is cool, well then, consider me Miles Davis.

    @Joe K.: yeah, I have often felt that way about it too. I really really really want to see some of the source code for some of the buy/sell algorithms that these megatraders use on a daily basis, also, too. Some of the variables are likely to include “IfValueUnknown=ChooseNumberFromHat”.

    I honestly don’t even know why we call it a science. It’s too damned big even for God to make sense of it all.

  19. 19.

    Ian

    From the article

    in the meantime, House Republicans are strategizing to kill the bill outright, with lobbyists saying that “Frank and the Democratic majority are ruining America, ruining capitalism.”

    So they cannot agree on something as basic as minimal regulations on banks, yet they are simultaneously ruining capitalism!!! At least the republicans were only given 1 paragraph in this article (the last one).

    The statement the Republicans put out applies perfectly to their own six years of total governance (that we’ve had for ten months). The Republicans damaged America, and they damaged Capitalism.

  21. 21.

    Yutsano

    @Jason Bylinowski: FWIW you’re not the only one. I don’t get off work until 9 p.m. Pacific and usually only my wifey and a few others are about. I appreciate your presence however.

  24. 24.

    Jason Bylinowski

    @Yutsano: Well, I’m feeling snappy and erudite lately in the realm of armchair economics, which admittedly happens only in fits and starts, but when it happens, I like to run with it until I get that nice, clean feeling of regret. Very refreshing.

    ::waves at TooManyJens::

  25. 25.

    Comrade Mary

    Testing instant delete.

    EDIT: Nope, not instant. You have to send a request for some poor human to wipe it out.

    Much easier to edit and replace with boilerplate, really.

  27. 27.

    Yutsano

    @Jason Bylinowski: Hey I have to deal with a VP visit tomorrow (which I can handle cause she’s a hoot) and getting my work responsibilities increased by a third with no resulting change in compensation. That and between the massive fuckitude that is the macroeconomic situation in this country and the healthcare mishegas, I’m doing all I can to keep as positive as possible without resulting to alcoholic enhancement. At least it’s my Friday tomorrow and I’m gonna splurge on Chinese for dinner. Or pizza. One of the two.

    Can I get in on the waving at Jen action too?

  28. 28.

    Jason Bylinowski

    @Yutsano: I’m a little slow on the uptake today, but do I take that to mean that your wife is also part of the commentariat here? Because that would be pretty badical, to express it in the most serious way imaginable. I’d kill to get my wife more interested in politics. She votes D probably 99 percent of the time, but she refuses to get involved in the daily discussion of issues. She’ll probably live longer, but I don’t see how THAT will be so awesome, since I’ll be long since gone, a casualty of the Blog War of 2025.

  29. 29.

    Jason Bylinowski

    @Yutsano: “Chinese for dinner. Or pizza.”

    Well have a slice for me. It has been almost four months now since pizza was a part of my life. 26 pounds are gone as of this last weekend, but last time I checked, so is the fun.

  30. 30.

    Yutsano

    I’m a little slow on the uptake today, but do I take that to mean that your wife is also part of the commentariat here?

    Well a fake wife anyway. AsiangrrlMN is not my VP (I’m talking shop here, which I should just be ignoring since, well, I’m no longer there right now) just an awesome chick I owe cookies to. And I’m betting money she’s typing her fingers to the nubs right now.

    I’d kill to get my wife more interested in politics.

    I agree, but if she just wants to exercise her right to vote honestly that’s good enough for me. It shows she’s a helluva lot more aware than the vast majority who choose not to vote.

  31. 31.

    TooManyJens (was Jen R)

    ::waves at Yutsano::

    I should be going to bed, but I need to take the recycling out tonight, and it’s too fucking cold to take the recycling out. So apparently I’m sitting here waiting for spring.

    Oh yeah, and I should be fixing Drupal. Damn it.

  32. 32.

    Yutsano

    :: returns the wave ::

    It’s cold. Butt ass cold. I have no idea how my chickens are making it through all this crap without freezing to death.

  33. 33.

    Jason Bylinowski

    @Yutsano: Oh, I see now.

    My wife, she’s one of those last minute researchers, but at least she does put in the time, even to find out about our local candidates, meager as they are. Around here in Augusta, GA, you get to choose between “banking oligarch” or “baby-saving christian” and you count yourself damn lucky when “end-times wingnut” decides to sit one out.

  34. 34.

    Yutsano

    @Jason Bylinowski: Heh. I remember when I went to Atlanta for a good friend’s wedding and the first day I was there I watched a couple of local TV programs. I seriously cannot remember the title but it was some local political roundtable. I about gagged through the entire thing, the number of times they said all of the state and national problems were the fault of Democrats could have been turned into a drinking game. I couldn’t stop watching, it had that eerie trainwreck fascination to it. I did, however, get a great adventure in the back hills of Georgia with the bride-to-be. It involved wild turkeys.

    BTW how is the young one feeling? Hopefully not under the weather still.

  35. 35.

    The Dangerman

    ::does the wave::

    Could have been worse; instead of doing the wave, I coulda sung YMCA or streaked.

  41. 41.

    Yutsano

    @The Dangerman: That does not make me has a happy. I have a good friend down there with a lemon tree that is usually prodigious, now I’m afraid the cold might cause some damage. I guess the orchard fires are being lit all in the San Fernando Valley now.

  42. 42.

    The Dangerman

    I have a lemon and an orange tree, both rather loaded (the lemons may be getting a little overripe by now if there is such a thing; it was prodigious and I’ve tired of lemonade, lemon meringue, lemon tarts, etc).

    3rd Generation SoCal here; spent 4 long winters in Seattle before I decided I liked to see the Sun in the winter.

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack

    @Jason Bylinowski:

    [. . .] why the hell am I never on this site at a time when everybody else is? It’s only 12:30 a.m. EST, people! I need a nice slow work-week so as to keep up with the social whirl that is Balloon Juice.

    Amen to that. I got home from work at 11:30 tonight, have spent the last couple of hours trying to get caught up and making a few pathetic comments on dead or dying threads. That happens to me way too often.

    On the bright side, I get off at 4:30 p.m. tomorrow, so I’m looking forward to a rare evening at home: rib-eye steak, gigantic baked potato with butter and sour cream, NFL game on TV (Stillers-Browns!) and Balloon Juice aplenty. Mmm . . . Balloon Juice. Yee-haw.

  45. 45.

    Steeplejack

    @Comrade Mary:

    Yeah, and what happened to me yesterday was that the human didn’t delete the message but merely “rescued” it from moderation and made it public. D’oh!

  48. 48.

    kay

    The finance industry have been using preemption for a long time to get around state law.
    I don’t know about anyone else, but all this resistance to re-regulation is doing is making it more and more difficult for me to enter into a contract of any kind. I have completely lost faith in the finance and insurance sector, as individual business entities, so I’m looking for an outside regulator or state entity to cover my end.
    I don’t feel comfortable dealing with them, because I don’t feel I have any practical recourse if the entity on the other end doesn’t comply with the terms.
    People have been bringing me dental insurance contracts lately, they’re advertised heavily here, on the radio. They ask me to look at the contract before they pay the premium.
    I can’t tell them to buy the policy, because there is simply no recourse in that contract (or in my state law) if the insurer doesn’t make good on the promised benefits. I don’t feel they’re protected sufficiently. It’s unrealistic to think they’re going to enter into protracted litigation to get reimbursed on a $279 premium. They won’t be in a position to sue on the contract, and everyone knows it.
    I think these efforts to avoid re-regulation are actually destroying faith in the marketplace.
    If an ordinary consumer doesn’t have any protection or legal recourse that is actually available to them when buying insurance or financial products, it’s simply too risky for an ordinary consumer to purchase those products. You’re just taking a flyer. There’s no practical way for the consumer to enforce the terms.

  49. 49.

    kay

    We could come up with a list of “national banks” that are not subject to state regulation, and avoid those banks.
    Federal regulators appear to be completely captured, so there’s no help there.
    I guess you’d have to look at the bank charter.
    Protecting ourselves from the finance and insurance industries is going to be a full-time job.
    I’m not sure any ordinary consumer is going to have time to do their regular job, and make the money to purchase these products and services, if we all have to act as regulators.

  50. 50.

    SiubhanDuinne

    O/T but Obama sounds very uncomfortable and off his game in his Oslo press conference. Not his usual level of energy. I am worried about him and hope the official Nobel lecture later is a better representation of what he is capable of.

  51. 51.

    Ruckus

    @kay:
    Insurance is like Las Vegas. The house always has the advantage. State laws, federal laws, doesn’t really matter. We think they are gambling just like we are. But just like LV they aren’t. Even if the laws are not in their favor they have all the info and we do not. And the law allows insurers to charge enough to always have a profit so they can stay in business. And they re insure so that if a catastrophic event happens they are covered. So the way they make more money is to delay payment, find ways to reduce claim amounts or just not pay. Does this sound like the health insurance industry? It’s not just them, it’s all insurance. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s the way the business is run. Do they pay claims? Sure they do. Do they deflate the claims made? Sure they do. Do they delay payment? It is certainly not unusual.
    Are banks any different? I have a friend who is a loan dept. manager for an very large bank. He told me about a week ago about a loan that both the client and the bank are having to jump through hoops with the feds to close. And it’s only because this bank took TARPS money. Last year they would have closed this loan with less than half the info and collateral. I was told the bank closed almost all their loans with much less info and collateral 6-12 months ago. This is very small sample and possibly a bad example but if not, it is why we are in this mess. The banks/mortgage cos didn’t care if the loans were bad. They were selling them off. They don’t care if you can’t pay or can’t afford a house, they are covered. IOW they don’t give a shit about you as long as they get their cut. It has never been otherwise, it’s just that we now have almost no recourse. Because the laws favor the house. Just like in gambling. Because that’s what it has become.

  52. 52.

    Xenos

    I think these efforts to avoid re-regulation are actually destroying faith in the marketplace.

    This. I don’t see the point in doing business with anyone where there is not a fair basis for enforcing contracts. Obviously there are transactions where you have to accept another state’s rules and jurisdiction, but insurance?

    The corporatists are turning federalism on its head, taking state-created entities and limiting state power to regulate them. What is amusing is that the best approach to dealing with them are to look to the local reforms established 100 years ago to opt out of the predatory economic system.

    Here in Massachusetts I tell people to look for businesses that operate under the laws that Justice Brandeis lobbied for when he was in private practice in the 1890s: cooperative banks, mutual insurance companies, and so on.

  53. 53.

    kay

    @Ruckus:

    I’ve just seen this happen again and again, and it’s like we never learn.

    Bean’s argument here (she’s the finance-friendly Dem) is that if we subject these huge financial entities to state regulation, they will be hampered, and will raise rates and fees.

    But big banks don’t offer any advantage over small banks on rates and fees. The prices never come down, like you would expect from a larger entity, with increased efficiency. Any savings never gets to the consumer.

    So, what the upside, for regular consumers, of exempting big banks from state regulations? There isn’t one. All it means is they can come into your state and drive your local bank out of business.

    People, including liberals, are now advocating that health insurance should be sold across state lines, and exempt from state regulation.

    But we try this over and over and it never works. The huge insurers will just buy Congress to influence federal regulations, they’ll be exempt from state regulatory action that is tighter than the feds, and prices won’t come down. They never do.

    We tried it with national banks, and unsecured lenders, like credit cards. It didn’t benefit consumers. It never benefits consumers. The big bank or big lender just shift the savings to profit.

  54. 54.

    kay

    @Xenos:

    I simply don’t understand why finance, insurance and lending are not subject to the same consumer protection rules as tangible products.

    I can’t come into you state, sell my automobiles, and be exempt from your state “lemon law”. I can’t open a brick and mortar store that sells a product and insist that I’m not subject to your state laws regarding returning a purchased product for a refund.

    It doesn’t matter if I’m Wal Mart or mom and pop.

    I would be laughed out of Congress is I were a national car dealer and claimed I could get you a better deal on the car if they’d only grant me immunity from state lemon laws.

    So, why the preferential treatment for finance, insurance and lending?

    These are consumer products, like any other.

  55. 55.

    MikeJ

    I would be laughed out of Congress is I were a national car dealer and claimed I could get you a better deal on the car if they’d only grant me immunity from state lemon laws.

    Don’t count on it. I could round you up twenty cosponsors in the Senate tomorrow if you had the legislation ready to go.

  56. 56.

    kay

    @Xenos:

    My state has strong consumer protection laws for products. They were put in place in the 1970’s, in response to (surprise!) absolute consumer abuse by sellers and manufacturers.

    It must be cheaper to buy one House member than to buy a whole state legislature, and more efficient!

  57. 57.

    valdivia

    so today is going to be a day of wingnut and Village stupidity and unfortunately it will all happen when it is too early to have a drinking game for it. So–I will propose a shot of espresso every time a wingnut says Obama didn’t not say Freedom! and America is the Best! during his speech.

  58. 58.

    kay

    @valdivia:

    Did you see the press conference? I didn’t.
    Another comment says there’s something wrong with him, that he’s “off his game”.
    It’s a lousy time to go get that prize. I don’t envy him. He probably can’t win this. One or more groups will be offended/outraged.

  59. 59.

    Xenos

    But to a large extent they are… if GMAC wants to write a mortgage refinance in MA they have to give the customer a three day right to rescission, and if they want to foreclose they have to get all the steps right if they want it to be effective. What bothers me about the national banks is how damn expensive they are. Customer service is dreadful and the fees are ridiculous.

    If the banks are effectively deregulated by preempting state regulations on contract formation, collections, and secured transactions it would be a really radical change. I don’t think the general public, whether liberal or conservative, has much appreciation for how critical state police powers are to the functioning of this country. The proposed preemption of the insurance and financial services industry will truly make serfs out of Glenn Beck’s followers (and the rest of us), and they don’t even know it. This is a far more dire violation of states’ rights than anything we have seen to date, and conservative movement is showing deep cynicism when they support it.

  60. 60.

    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)

    I simply don’t understand why finance, insurance and lending are not subject to the same consumer protection rules as tangible products.

    It’s called paid protection, they pay politicians for protection against us.

    The problem with saving our economy is that it makes it easier to cover up all of the damage done, which means that nobody will bother to examine the ‘problem’ because the ‘problem’ has been ‘solved’ by paying off everyone at the top. Now the money can continue to fill political coffers and the game can resume.

    I hate to say it but we will require a complete, or nearly complete, meltdown of our systems. I am talking about major numbers of unemployed and homeless in the streets. We might think it is bad now but we will need much worse before the public wakes up and smells the shit they have been being fed. Right now the ‘press’ is nothing more than American Idol and is about as useful in informing the public about what matters.

    Our pols are casting about for some way to crank up the good times again and it isn’t going to be at the expense of the rich, that’s for sure. They pay too good and the pols don’t bite the hands that feed them, I just wish they were required to wear the names and emblems of their corporate sponsors on their suits and dresses. It would make it clear to everyone which team they are on.

    Not ours, that’s for sure.

  61. 61.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Kay 6:15 am

    That was me. I do agree with you, that it’s lousy timing and that someone is bound to be outraged by Obama’s speech, either “sins of omission” or “sins of commission” and I imagine he anticipates that. I was talking more about style than substance in the presser — he just seemed kind of tired and unfocused, which is usually not the case with this Prez.

  62. 62.

    kay

    @Xenos:

    But banks with a national charter are exempt from state law that is more restrictive than federal law now. I understand mortgage lenders are still regulated at the state level, but national banks aren’t, and national banks do unsecured lending.

    Bean’s objective here is to continue the process where no state regulation is more restrictive than federal regulations, or it can be preempted.

    Apply that broadly to any other product or service. Christ. We’ll be sheep waiting for slaughter.

    I won’t be able to buy anything, or sign anything, ever.

  63. 63.

    kay

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Thanks so much. I felt as if he was in an impossible position with that prize. I didn’t feel he could turn it down, because that’s substituting his judgment for theirs, so rude and arrogant, in my opinion, but I knew it would be tough to accept, because he’s (regrettably) ramping up a war and this country is such a goddamn mess.
    I don’t know what I’d do. Hide under my desk and not answer the phone?

  64. 64.

    Xenos

    @kay: Agreed about unsecured lending. It is like signing an indentured servitude agreement when filling out that credit card app. And student loans… don’t get me started about student loans! Federal preemption has literally made them indentured servitude arrangements. It has gotten to the point that a lot of people would be better off not getting an education.

    Interestingly though, a lot of people have apparently closed their credit card accounts and only use debit cards. This requires some steady cash on hand, and may indicate the further division of this country into ‘haves’ and ‘serfs’.

  65. 65.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Kay. Exactly! I don’t think it was at all intended this way, but really, the Nobel committee didn’t do him any favors. And of course on top of everything else now, our simple-minded media, who wouldn’t recognize a nuance to save their putative souls, are touting the latest poll results — Quinnipiac, I think — which asks the question “Does Obama deserve the NPP yes or no?” and unsurprisingly something like 66 percent say no and only 27 pct or so say yes. We’ve heard from Obama’s own lips that *he* doesn’t think he “deserves” it — at least not now and not as much as other worthy candidates — so presumably he would have been part of the 66 pct in that poll. But you already know how the Morning Joes of this world, not to mention the gang over at Clusterfox, are going to spin those numbers.

    I seem to be a bit grumpy this morning. Perhaps I should go in search of coffee.

  66. 66.

    stetson

    Delete my fucking account, kos!

    Damn it, wrong website. My mistake. I extend my apologies to you, the creator of content that creates the constant reader
    .

  67. 67.

    kay

    @Xenos:

    I don’t even think mortgage lending is a safe bet.

    There was an outfit called “Ameriquest” that I followed during the run-up to the subprime crash. They were mortgage lenders. They crashed and burned prior to Countrywide.

    It took thirty-eight state AG’s to shut them down.

    That’s a lot of states.

  69. 69.

    WereBear

    This is all bullshit because it does not grow the economy.

    It just sucks it out of masses of people who don’t have it, to give to people who already have plenty.

    And then those people play with it.

    It’s not a sustainable system. But they don’t seem to recognize that; and if they do, they don’t care.

  70. 70.

    valdivia

    Has Obama spoken? I just saw the norwegian is really nice and said some nice things. and someone is playing music?

  71. 71.

    Elizabelle

    Can we start an “up early to watch President Obama accept his Nobel Peace Prize Award thread?”

    This is also a contender for its own thread. The FredHiattWashingtonPost gives us

    “For Conservatives, A Political Surge” (online headline)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/09/AR2009120904637.html

    second paragraph: “Buoyed by their success in capsizing a moderate Republican candidate this fall in Upstate New York, …”

    YESH! First Democratic congressmember in a century. More of that, please.

    And, surprise surprise, the tea partiers don’t get along that well with each other either.

    And please read the appended reader comments. The Post’s more intelligent readers are having a field day, at least in the earliest pages of comments. Maybe Red Staters aren’t up yet, or are shooting out their TV sets instead of watching the Nobel.

  72. 72.

    valdivia

    @Elizabelle:

    I am watching! in the few minutes I have before my class begins I hope to hear his speech. but now there is music.

    your comment about the redstaters shooting the tv is too funny. thanks for a laugh this early in the am.;-)

  73. 73.

    MikeJ

    Who’s the bass player playing in Oslo right now? She played the WH at the Stevie Wonder concert, IIRC, but I don’t remember her name.

  77. 77.

    Elizabelle

    Good morning valdivia.

    Gosh, I wish this hotel had C-Span. Dependent on CNN, and that’s bad.

    OK, Today and Fox seem to be turning to the Nobel.

    Fox and Friends say it’s a long speech and that Obama wrote most of it himself. 8 pages. Imagine.

  80. 80.

    valdivia

    @Elizabelle:

    I am huddled in front of a computer outside my classroom hoping I can hear everything before my class starts in 12 minutes.

    NY times has it up on the front page.

  81. 81.

    Elizabelle

    Valdivia: do you teach or are you a student?

    Seems like a great speech about what cooperation and foresight gets you …

  84. 84.

    SiubhanDuinne

    All right. Obama got his game back. He’s giving a great speech, so there’s no doubt that the wingnuts will rip it to shreds within 30 minutes. But in the meantime, Go O!

    I was never really worried :-)

  87. 87.

    Elizabelle

    I wish your students could watch this speech in real time. A US president getting a Nobel is history and usually few and far between.

    (Thanks George W Bush! In no small part, the Nobel Committee looked to Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama — and Al Gore — while considering the deeds of leaders like yourself and patriot Cheney. Yer a powerful guy.)

  92. 92.

    Morbo

    Is there some definition of “New Democrats” out there somewhere? As much as I read blogs, I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve seen it.

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    If you are speaking of the financial/consumer reform opponents from John’s link, they should spell it “New Democrat$.”

  97. 97.

    Elizabelle

    Michael Gerson on Fox was impressed with the speech and spoke with admiration.

    Gretchen Carlson: first comment: brings up the controversy over his being awarded this early. (subliminal: Let’s stick to the script, Michael.)

    Michael snaps to: It was a little long. It was a lecture. He could benefit from a little editing.

    Um, don’t they call these things Nobel lectures? Or that’s something else?

  98. 98.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle 8:00 am

    I understand (but have not verified) that Obama isactually the first sitting US Prez to accept the NPP in person. Neither T. Roosevelt nor Wilson went to Oslo, and of course Carter was long out of office when he was awarded his prize.

    My Hopey is back! I’m very happy.

  99. 99.

    Elizabelle

    Foxbot watch: Gretchen: “nowhere in the speech, although he kind of danced around it, were the words “War on Terror.”

    Concerned look. Michael is not concerned. He’s, um, addressing the substance of the speech.

    That’s enough for Fox. Next up: jobless numbers and those terrorists arrested in Pakistan. Move along.

  100. 100.

    jwb

    @Elizabelle: Brave of you to subject yourself to FauxNews for the reaction. I’m listening to the performance of Liszt’s Liebestraum that the Nobel committee programmed to follow Obama’s speech.

  101. 101.

    Elizabelle

    jwb: you are so lucky. I was sticking to TV and limited options of hotel cable.

    Got to get with the 21st century and watch these things online. Showing my age.

    During Obama campaign, was always volunteering to drag in a TV set so the Obama organizers could watch whatever debate. They always looked at me like “why?” and turned back to their laptops, in action 20 hours a day.

  102. 102.

    WereBear

    I’ll watch it tonight. Looking forward to it.

    After eight years of cringing and throwing things at the TV (soft things) it’s great to look forward to a Presidential speech… that is Presidential.

  103. 103.

    HRA

    @Xenos: “Interestingly though, a lot of people have apparently closed their credit card accounts and only use debit cards. This requires some steady cash on hand, and may indicate the further division of this country into ‘haves’ and ‘serfs’.”

    Exactly what we did about 8 years ago. Only recently upon the recommendation of a daughter did I open a small store charge account that I pay in full monthly.
    The money we were paying to the credit cards was getting out of control when we decided “Enough!”. Now we only buy within our means and it is a form of liberation or freedom to not support the institutions by way of swelling percentages.

    It is a very good feeling to have an intelligent learned president.

  104. 104.

    geg6

    @Xenos:

    And student loans… don’t get me started about student loans! Federal preemption has literally made them indentured servitude arrangements.

    Sorry, but I gotta call bullshit on this one. As this happens to be one of my areas of expertise, federal student loans are one of the few decent deals out there. If you want to blame anyone or anything for federal student loan abusive practices by lenders, blame the schools. Since there are two parallel federal loan programs, it is up to the school to choose the program that they participate in and schools who choose the FFELP program don’t give a shit about their students or their financial futures as much as schools that participate in the Direct Loan program. Since FFELP is the only one that uses lending institutions as a middle man for distributing federal funds, a school in FFELP is to blame for any abuses. In addition, the students bear some blame if they find themselves in trouble when the loans come due as there are numerous deferment and forbearance programs available if students make only a modicum of effort to avail themselves of them. And any student who says they didn’t know about any of those programs or the consequences of their borrowing is lying or simply didn’t pay attention when completing their federally mandated loan entrance counseling by the school’s student aid office, which is required before we can disburse the loans.

    IMHO, Congress should abolish the FFELP program (as the Obama administration has proposed) and make all federal student loans direct loans. They are much less expensive in terms of interest and fees and don’t put a penny of borrower or tax payer money in the pockets of predatory lenders like Sallie Mae or Citibank.

    The biggest issue in student lending is the alternative educational loan market, again headed by barracuda-like lenders like Sallie Mae and Citibank. This is a much bigger problem than federal loans and creates many more of the so-called indentured servitude situations than the federal loans, which have quite a bit of protections for consumers (even in the FFELP program). There are few consumer protections on these loans (no different than any other consumer loan) and the predatory practices they use are little different than the ARM mortgage providers that have helped to create such economic havoc as we find ourselves in today.

    My advice to anyone bothered by the student loan system is to join my professional organization, NASFAA (National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators), in lobbying Congress to abolish the FFELP program, increase lending limits to something approaching cost of attendance, and tighten regulation of alternative lenders.

  105. 105.

    Elizabelle

    geg and kay and so many others: one reason BJ is a desert island blog for me is the practical wisdom and professional expertise of many of you. Informed discussion and different perspectives.

    OT: is this one of the NY Times’ best headlines ever?:

    A Senator’s Gift to the Jews, Nonreturnable.

    (Orrin Hatch has written a Hanukkah song. Not saying it’s a bad idea, but loved the headline’s snark.)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/us/politics/09hanukkah.html?em

  106. 106.

    Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion

    @Elizabelle:

    geg and kay and so many others: one reason BJ is a desert island blog for me is the practical wisdom and professional expertise of many of you. Informed discussion and different perspectives.

    This.

  107. 107.

    kay

    @HRA:

    I obsess, I know that, but even debit cards are now dangerous, so be careful.

    They sold debit cards to young people, hard, and they’re now offering “overdraft protection” in the form of a high interest loan. You “take out” the loan, unwittingly, when you use the card for an amount higher than the balance.

    This is an adversarial relationship, and they’re on the other side. They want to leave you bankrupt.

    I have to suggest all consumers take a portion of each workday and try to stay on top of the latest rip-off the finance and lending industry dream up.

    You have to stay right on top of them. If there is a way to rob you, they will find it.

  108. 108.

    kay

    @HRA:

    “But as more people began to use debit cards, the banks started to view overdraft fees as a major profit center and started to automatically enroll debit card holders into an overdraft program.

    A study by the Center for Responsible Lending, a nonpartisan research and policy group, describes what it calls the “overdraft domino effect.” One college student whose bank records were analyzed by the center made seven small purchases including coffee and school supplies that totaled $16.55 and was hit with overdraft fees that totaled $245.

    Some bankers claim the system benefits debit card users, allowing them to keep spending when they are out of money. But interest rate calculations tell a different story. Credit card companies, for example, were rightly criticized when some drove up interest rates to 30 percent or more. According to a 2008 study by the F.D.I.C., overdraft fees for debit cards can carry an annualized interest rate that exceeds 3,500 percent. “

  109. 109.

    scudbucket

    @kay: In general, but specifically this:

    It must be cheaper to buy one House member than to buy a whole state legislature, and more efficient!

    This is a fact, but also should come as no surprise (not that you were surprised): the same cost/benefit calculus which justifies a factory relocation, or the dumping of toxic waste, or the systematic violation of laws (remember Union Carbide?), applies here. If $x in leads to >$x dollars out, then it’s a good business decision. Good examples of this are cases (Firestone tires, pharmaceuticals, airbags, etc) where a product is known to be defective but released to the public because the cost of litigating/settling the predicted law suits is less than income generated from sales.)

    Federal (well, all) campaign financing in this country is a codified form of bribery. The remedy is – of course – campaign finance reform in the form of government funding, but as GWB said (truthfully and correctly), he opposed it because it would be bad for the GOP.

    And the problems don’t end with simply buying enough votes on the floor: the bills being voted on are often written by lawyers employed by the private industries affected by the legislation.

  110. 110.

    scudbucket

    BTW, for those who might have flirted with libertarianism and the belief that completely unregulated markets maximize utility and the common good, Kay’s posts on this single thread ought to suffice to disabuse you of that fleeting dalliance.

  111. 111.

    kay

    @scudbucket:

    This is when it got really bad:

    “Federal preemption of state laws is not a new concept — particularly in banking. It accelerated in 2004 when the federal regulator of national banks, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), issued a sweeping interpretation of the law in which the agency determined that national banks did not have to comply with state laws purporting to regulate their practices — laws like anti-predatory lending measures — to the delight of big national banks.”

    You find me another product or sector that has that much clout. That they are exempted from state law, and they sell product in every state. Sweet deal. No wonder we lost manufacturing. We decided this sector should be coddled.

  112. 112.

    Comrade Dread

    Government of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich…

    You know, every time I try and leave my cynicism aside and embrace the holiday spirit, something like this comes up and I’m right back being a bitter bastard.

  113. 113.

    scudbucket

    @kay:

    This doesn’t make legal sense to me (I’m not a lawyer, but …). I take it that the OCC is part of Treasury. If so, Treasury is part of the executive branch which cannot unilaterally redefine or interpret laws. Has any state challenged the constitutionality of this?

  114. 114.

    kay

    @scudbucket:

    It was an interpretation of the National Bank Act, which started the whole mess.

    Cuomo, the AG of New York, brought a case last year that narrowed this incredibly bank-friendly interpretation, and I assume that possible threat to big banks is what Congress is responding to.

    This is as I understand it, and I am by no means an expert.

  116. 116.

    HRA

    @kay:

    Yes, I know about the overdraft option and did not sign up for it. It was just an instinct that made me nix it.
    On the other hand I had to bail out a child from an overdraft mess last week. I can only hope she has learned from it.

    I use my card as credit rather than debit. I do not know if that makes a big or small difference in how I use it and if the difference is to my advantage.

  117. 117.

    kay

    @HRA:

    Good for you. My daughter uses a debit card, and she had to use a big bank because she was going to use it overseas. She got caught up in it.

    I loved when they started using debit cards (I don’t have one) because it’s a way to keep track, and it’s not debt.

    That the banks saw an opportunity in that is just sleazy as hell.

    I don’t know: it’s not enough they borrow money at zero and lend it at 15, they also have to rob 19 year olds of their summer job money or they can’t manage to make a profit?

    They must suck at this capitalism thing. They should be printing money, with all the advantages they’ve been given.

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