Ezra just demolishes Lane today:
It seems, at this point, that our dispute comes down to tone. Lane wonders whether “it will be easier to achieve reform in an atmosphere where accusations of mass murder whizz about freely.” I wonder whether reform is even possible to achieve in an atmosphere where statements about consequences are ruled out of order.
At no point in our discussion has Lane disputed the contention that insurance reduces mortality, and for that matter, morbidity and bankruptcy. Similarly, he has agreed that Lieberman is acting partially out of residual anger at liberals, an argument Howard Fineman also made on Hardball last night. That is to say, the two premises on which my argument is built are both relatively non-controversial, even with Lane.
***Second, Lane suggests that the rhetoric is simply overheated, as compared to the crystalline calm of his own prose. “I objected to Klein’s piece about Lieberman for the same reason I objected to the right’s scare talk about socialism and ‘death panels,'” Lane writes.
I find that peculiar. I objected to the rhetoric of socialism and ‘death panels’ because that rhetoric was untrue, and it harmed people’s understanding of the underlying legislation. But Lane, as far as I can tell, agrees that what I’m saying is true. But in this case, an accurate rendering of the situation reads like a radical attack on Joe Lieberman. Sometimes, reality is uncivil. But that does not mean it is uncivil to point it out.
Really, what is at play here is the same mentality that makes a person nonchalantly dismiss the notion that we should investigate war crimes or torture, but then gets the vapors when someone on the internet says “FUCK.”
Zifnab
Epic take down indeed. I’m going to miss Erza when he gets handed his walking papers.
valdivia
Also note that lane says how destructive the language of death panels is when he himself advanced the lie with a column of his own.
and yes, Ezra kicked his ass.
danimal
Keep the pressure on, Ezra. Apparently accountability for their actions is a difficult concept in the Beltway. Upsets comity at the dinner parties and gala fundraisers.
In the real world, people live or die based on the winners of the Beltway parlor games.
Scott
Really, what is at play here is the same mentality that makes a person nonchalantly dismiss the notion that we should investigate war crimes or torture, but then gets the vapors when someone on the internet says “FUCK.”
That’s it exactly. Civility is the god of the beltway, and as long as you can fake that, the Powers That Be will declare you a saint.
Catsy
This. Exactly this. I’ve been waiting for someone with a voice in the corporate media to make this point for years. While there is something to be said for constructive engagement and civility, there is also something deeply sick and destructive about the refusal to call out liars and monsters on their lies and monstrosity if doing so would be uncivil.
Ezra deserves a fucking award for this whole dustup. He’s exposing Lane–and everyone else in the media who subscribes to that delusional worldview–for the intellectual frauds they are. And there’s literally nothing they can say to rebut it.
flukebucket
As I have said before, a day without Balloon-Juice is like a day without sunshine.
geg6
Well, Cole, you are forcing me to give that piece of shit rag a page view. Two days of haranguing and I give up.
Seriously though, good for Ezra. About time someone went after these motherfuckers on the lie of their false “civility.” People are suffering, dying, and losing everything they own and these fuckers are worried about civility.
neill
Chas Lane is a repugnant human being and a Villager…but, yes, in the spirit of Mark Twain, I repeat myself.
Yesterday it was shrivel the means of the poor minimum wagers, today he’s all “let’s not talk about them bringing out the dead everywhere there’s not health care provided, and you know, blaming it on no health care.”
Eat shit and die, Mr. Lane. Eat shit and die.
“Chuckie” Lane is just one more monster in a village of monsters.
Rick Massimo
This is the real journamalistic sin that Ezra has committed: thinking that facts are better, and have a more important place in the national conversation, than untruths.
He’s young. He hasn’t learned yet that you report what both sides are saying and leave it at that, otherwise you’re being unfair.
Poopyman
Bingo. When the facts get too apparent that our government tortures with impunity, politicizes the justice department with impunity, prosecutes a war against Pakistanis from pilotless drones with impunity, and now shows itself to be dupes and puppets of the hyper-monied, it’s time to deflect the topic from the actual immorality towards a manufactured one.
Midnight Marauder
@danimal:
That was most likely made in jest, but I whole-heartedly believe that to be a statement of fact. The importance of the Beltway cocktail circuit on national affairs in this country really can’t be overstated enough.
And Ezra didn’t even need to write the entire column after opening up with some ownage like this:
Chuck Lane. Bitchmade.
Keith G
Indeed. At each and every step of this latest round, young Ezra has upped his game and shown the mastery of an even temperament.
With reference to the previous post, new star (with a long history) seems to have appeared in the firmament.
MP
Really, what is at play here is the same mentality that makes a person nonchalantly dismiss the notion that we should investigate war crimes or torture, but then gets the vapors when someone on the internet says “FUCK.”
Years ago, I lived in Madrid, just up the street from an old, well-kept bar that had been there for decades. I went one day with a friend of mine, and he introduced me to an old gentleman, probably in his 80’s, a semi-regular who never failed to show up in sport coat, sweater and tie.
I talked with the old guy for a while, and he was as courtly and polite as you could imagine. We talked about the neighborhood, about Spain, how it was in the old days and what a great country it was. When we left, my friend asked me if I had any idea who the gentleman was. I didn’t, so he told me. The guy had been the head of Franco’s secret police in Andalusia for years.
But he never once said the word Fuck. Didn’t even come close.
General Winfield Stuck
When I was Ezra’s age, the deepest thought I could muster was, “Far out Man”/
southpaw
This gets awkward for the voices to the left of Ezra calling for the defeat of the bill, does it not?
jl
I agree. What jumped out at me was this:
“To this, there seem to be two rejoinders in Lane’s post. The first is that it is “an accusation of mass murder.” It is not. It is a statement of consequences.”
Lane smears Klein, who did not by any reasonable standard say what Lane alleges. Lane was uncivil and he lied.
I just do not see how any sentient person could believe Lieberman is acting good faith, given the evidence presented by Klein.
Furthermore, Lane’s (I think it was Lane) accusation of partisanship was nonsensical. Lieberman is officially an independent, nominally allied with the Democratic Party. So, in what meaningful sense was Klein being partisan, and what partisan side was Klein on? Lane’s accusation is so nonsensical that I do not even see how some one could answer that question. Lane dived into ‘not even wrong’ territory. It makes ‘when did you stop beating your wife?’ seem a very straightforward and simple question by comparison.
I think that Klein creates problems for himself sometimes by mixing inside politics, recommendations and objective policy analysis. And I often to not agree with him, but that is beside the point. Klein seems honest, he does research and adds value to public discussion, which is very rare in our decayed national media.
I have to say it again, recent political debate in this country has revealed what seems to be a fatal decadence, dysrunction, dishonest, inept and corrupt ruling aristocratic elite, even more than I had dreamed.
I do have some faint hope. Make fun of them if you want (and I am not a fan of the younger media ‘nepo set’, but there are signs that the corrupt old loons upon whom we are supposed to rely have stunk themselves up so bad, that even the likes of Jenna and Luke are a slight improvement over what we have now (at least Luke Russert can give appropriate credit for a story, and Matthews cannot).
SpotWeld
It’s false equivalency.
The idea that there should be an investigation into the potentially illegal, immoral (and quite frankly scary) actions of Blackwater (esp. in regard to the rape of female employees) is equally distastful as the investigation into ACORN for taking federal money while .. um.. not laughing enough at a preppy pimp-wanna be.
And because they are the same, the idea of any sense of priorities is just shot.
The idea that a hugely contivouluted set of circumstances that a trickle of federal money might end up at an abortion clinic is as important as the fact that tens of thousands of Americans are dying for lack of medical care denied because of actions of private insurance.
As long as you can be loud about it, it must be as important.
(Al Franken is pretty amazing at how he’s been able to be “loud” on certain topics without actually shouting rhetoric)
elmo
Ann Althouse sez hai.
The Grand Panjandrum
So Chuck, how does it feel to be Ezra’s bitch?
Scott
The guy had been the head of Franco’s secret police in Andalusia for years.
But he never once said the word Fuck. Didn’t even come close.
You just gave Charles Lane a boner.
mistersnrub
Why is it that civility is only required of Liberals? How come douchebags like Lane and Howie Kurtz only get the vapors when someone on the left uses hyperbole? Why do all these people still have jobs? What is to be done with the corrupt and venal media?
Sorry, all these rhetorical questions in my law school casebook have fried my brain.
asiangrrlMN
Way to go, Ezra. Nice to see someone has the balls to be truthful about one of the deeply-entrenched problems with our media. Countdown to his axing in three…two…one….
jl
@SpotWeld: Agreed. And, as far as I know, the evidence of Blackwater mercenaries committing massacres and murders was not faked.
That still might make a difference in some quarters. I would not bet on that being the case for the Hiatt and Lane.
danimal
@Midnight Marauder: It took me a while to figure out the essential shallowness of our political leaders. It really is all about the dinner party for many of them.
@jl: The “mass murder” charge is the real hyperbolic statement. Murder requires a level of agency that no one is accusing health care opponents of having. Indifference to hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths is damning enough, no one needs to accuse health care opponents of murder.
Please note: This argument does not apply to the Iraq war or predator drone attacks.
YankeeApologist
This was in the comments section of Ezra’s article. I read this and it hit me like a ton of bricks. This is a better idea than some of the others I’ve heard recently:
“Here’s a thought experiment: Instead of an abstract number – 50,000, 100,000, whatever – suppose you were able to come up with a list of one hundred specific people, with names and addresses, who will die next year unless HCR passes. Or for that matter fifty, or ten or even one person – but a specific person with a name and a photo and a history.
I wonder how many would vote against HCR knowing that their vote would kill a specific individual?
No real policy implication to this – I just find it an intriguing thought.”
Well done, Virgina7!
Jay B.
It’s obscene and way past time. Klein is one of the nice ones and was perfectly groomed for where he is — and even then the morally stunted, ass-kissing courtesans of the media, the fucking press! can’t handle even semi-progressives stating their case in human, if factual, terms.
Klein’s obvious statement is literally no different than mentioning that if you vote for war, innocent people will die. It’s a fucking tautology, not even an observation. If people continue not to have access to health care, people will continue to die because you need health care to stay alive.
And even if Klein was wrong somehow or stepped over a line, so fucking what? These fucking twisted whores don’t even know who’s interests they are supposed to be serving — it sure as fuck isn’t a motherfucking whore of a Senator.
Klein should double down and call Lane an ass-kissing chickenshit who has the values of a bootlicking fascist.
And again, Ezra has no worries. Getting fired, at worst, from a fucking brothel like the Post is a badge of honor.
GReynoldsCT00
That was indeed a pleasant read this afternoon. He took Lane down point by point in a reasonable, factual manner. Not that Lane or anyone one like him will let that stop them from apoplexy. I hope they have agita for days.
Turgidson
@Scott:
Civility is only expected of the DFH liberals, though. The GOP can call every Democratic legislative idea the epitome of teh soc ia list facism HITLER LIVES with nothing more than a shrug. Then, what happens when Alan Grayson tells the truth about GOP priorities in blunter-than-usual fashion? Heads explode. So it’s not a shock that Ezra is being blacklisted from all polite gatherings of the chattering class as we speak for actually telling it like it is.
JR
Reminds me of the anger towards Franken when he had the nerve to point out bocking legal support for rape victims sends a very bad message and to, and has actual consequences for, you know, victims of rape. It’s just not done.
SGEW
That is an epic, should-be-classic, thunderously magnificent response. Wonk power, y’all.
Ezra really is one of our best (both temperamentally and ethically) and brightest (both in terms of intellect and work quality). I can’t wait until he leaves the fever-swamp of the WaPo and rejoins the blogosphere. That hideous place cannot be reformed from the inside, Ezra! Go join TPM, or something. (I just hope he won’t wind up blogging at HuffPo, like Froomkin, or DailyBeast, like Horton).
Also: Score yet another one for the juice box mafia. [Srsly. I just love those guys.]
Shawn in ShowMe
It’s all in how you spin it. If you’re a wingnut you accuse liberals of playing shameful politics with people’s lives – “So anyone who disagrees with your idea for healthcare reform wants people to die? Blah, Blah… ”
If you’re a purity troll you accuse the WH of signing the death warrants of thousands of Americans who can only be saved by a public option. And you will get rec’d 600 times, natch.
This thing seemed destined for reconciliation from the beginning. But as always Obama gave these clowns a chance to be public servants to show swing voters he isn’t a soshul-ist dictator.
Shawn in ShowMe
@SGEW
Kinda like the Prez in that respect. If we can get enough adults in government and media, this country might have a shot.
Noonan
I need a cigarette after reading that one.
bago
What does Joe Klein have against Ken Layne?
Nate
This post reminded me of one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies–Apocolypse Now. I believe it’s when Captain Willard (Martin Sheen) is standing outside Colonel Kurtz’s (Marlon Brando) room waiting to assassinate him. Kurtz is making an audio recording and states, “We train men to drop fire on people, yet we don’t allow them to write ‘Fuck’ on their airplanes. Why? Because its obscene.”
R. Porrofatto
For Lane, like so many others, the deaths of hundreds of thousands as a result of not having insurance is simply no one’s responsibility, except perhaps the responsibility of those doing the dying. The fact that these people wouldn’t be dead if they lived in France only means that they should have decided to not to be be born as unlucky Americans. And that’s certainly not Joe Lieberman’s fault.
serge
I think that Ezra Klein invites such disdain from the older generation of “newspaper” journalists because he is so young, and because he is so much smarter than they are, or ever will be.
Apart from that, watching, or reading, people defending the honor of Lieberwhore is pure entertainment. I would say that Chuck Lane just got knocked the “fisk” out..
YankeeApologist
@Shawn in ShowMe:
“It’s all in how you spin it. If you’re a wingnut you accuse liberals of playing shameful politics with people’s lives – “So anyone who disagrees with your idea for healthcare reform wants people to die? Blah, Blah… ”
Yeah, I see your point, I just think it’s exactly the kind of lowdown, dirty thing that Sean Hannity would do. I’m pretty tired of the unspoken agreement liberals have to be the “gentleman enemy”.
I swear, I feel like we bring the gloves and dueling pistols, and the GOP brings surface-to-air missles when it gets down to where the rubber meets the road.
Dave L
Why does it seem as though the Insiders Club has even more sway now than it did when W was around? When will these fossils – Broder, Peretz, el al – loose their grip on elite opinion?
I guess that answers itself; we’ll have to wait for them to die in harness. Fortunately, I don’t think their lickspittles and placemen – you can just substitute “Jamie Kirchick” here if you prefer – will inherit their power.
MNPundit
As someone who does tend to get the vapors when some says “fuck” (after seeing a middle-aged woman say it in a grocery store, I realize it makes anyone who uses it look less intelligent) even when I use it myself, I would like to investigate war crimes and torture and prosecute.
Just Some Head
If they ever ban the word “fuck”, my commenting career is pretty much over.
Michael D.
You said fuck!
4jkb4ia
Or “blowjob”! It had to be said.
themann1086
If Ezra does get canned, I’m sure Pandagon would be more than happy to have him write there again.
Will
YankeeApologist,
Harry Lime: Nobody thinks in terms of human beings. Governments don’t. Why should we? They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs – it’s the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.
Martins: You used to believe in God.
Harry Lime: Oh, I still do believe in God, old man. I believe in God and Mercy and all that. But the dead are happier dead. They don’t miss much here, poor devils.
Catsy
Anyone who spends a lot of time at Wikipedia, try to keep an eye on the entry for Ezra Klein. Some wingnut went in and wrote a highly POV description of this current brouhaha. I did my best to de-vandalize it, but if anyone can improve on that, feel free.
AhabTRuler
@Just Some Head: I dunno, you could get even more popular.
Cris
@Nate: get out of my head, man
john b
OT, i know, but people are really confused about what drones actually are. they have pilots, they’re just controlling the planes remotely. i don’t really see what’s so morally ambiguous about this technology.
Joel
This is unfair to Ezra Klein, who deals in (or at least attempts to) whole truths, whereas Taibbi deals in hyperbole. This distracts from the merits (or lack thereof) of his arguments.