And while we were all arguing about the Lieberman/Nelson Hippie Retribution and Anti-Abortion Act of 2009, look what happened:
A Congressional tax standoff has opened a window of opportunity for wealthy Americans determined to avoid paying up post-mortem.
With lawmakers unable to agree on a year-end fix for a quirk in the Bush-era tax cuts, the federal estate tax is set to be repealed for one year as of Jan. 1, meaning that those who suffer a timely death could escape the usual certainty of taxes.
Not like we could have used that money or anything. You do have to appreciate the fact that the Republicans are still achieving the legislative goals even in the minority. Personally, I blame Obama for not using the bully pulpit and think a stronger President like Hillary would have never let this happen.
More at LGM.
gnomedad
Attention Dick Cheney.
danimal
This really isn’t news. Smart estate planners have circled 2010 as the best year to die since the Bush tax cut passed at the beginning of the decade.
mr. whipple
No question. Hillary would have acted like FDRLBJ and broke some legs and pooped with the door open.
Quiddity
It’s actually better this way.
If the law was changed, which the House passed, it would have the tax at 45% – the 2009 rate – made permanent.
But if the Bush estate tax law is not changed and runs the way it is written, the tax rate is 55% from 2011 onwards.
These facts are straight from the NYTimes article linked to.
Max
I have been looking at the usual sites to see any reaction from the PUMA’s and other Clinton-fetish folks to see how their “kill the bill” rhetoric lines up with Bill’s emphatic statement in support of passing the bill.
Can’t find a thing. They are so very intellectually dishonest.
BTW – Am I a horrible person because I immediately pitch in the trash, without reading one word, those long Christmas-themed letters that describe the minutia of the past twelve months in the lives of my friends and family?
I just don’t care that Billy’s Little League won the championship in May, or that Susan was on the honor roll, or that my stepsibling took a sewing class and can now make her own schmattas.
gwangung
@Quiddity: So, if they want to avoid the tax, they really DO have to FOAD. Heh.
kwAwk
Perhaps we can get a lot of Republicans to really go Galt. Like permanently go Galt.
BTW the same methodology, the reconcilliation process, that has made the Bush tax cuts expire next year, is the same process that is allowing for the inheritance tax to be eliminated for one year. It is something that was put in motion 8 years ago.
gwangung
@Max:
Nah….even though I crank out mine…my feeling is that if people want to read my stuff, they can…if not, they can chuck it….
Quiddity
@gwangung
Exactly so. I have been surprised at the zeal several on the left have for making the 2009 estate tax schedule permanent. Any long term analysis will show that letting the Bush tax law alone will bring in more revenue.
Jim
.
Wait a few years. You’ll be hearing about little Billy buying his first condo and your step-sibling’s midlife crisis. I think three generations are the most I’ve seen in one newsletter, but like you, I pitch most of them.
This couldn’t get through the Senate, and I actually suspect Lieberman was not one of the culprits. Nelson and Lincoln? I couldn’t find a more detailed story than NYT, where John Kyl is lying about family farms.
Nathan R
After the crap we’ve been through the last few months, the only thing that stands out after reading this is Mr. Hulse’s unusually (for the Times) witty writing.
Just Some Fuckhead
Ah yes, the unintentional Patricide Act of 2009.
stickler
Quiddity:
NO! The Bush Tax Cuts are Grover Norquist’s wet dream. Cancelling them won’t just “bring in more revenue,” they’ll FIX THE GOD-DAMNED BUDGET PROBLEM ALL BY THEM SELVES!
Sorry for shouting, but the Bush tax cuts were a magnitude more disastrous for our fiscal future than the Iraq and Afghanistan wars put together. And to make it more shit-sandwich-ey, they are all set to expire next year. Presto! SO OUR SPINELESS F***KING DEMOCRAT CONGRESSMEN DON’T HAVE TO DO A G**D D**NED THING TO FIX OUR F**KING FISCAL PROBLEMS.
And what are they doing? Discussing ways to preserve the F*****G B**H T*X C**TS.
Either shoot me now, or punch me in the neck until I beg you to shoot me.
DougJ
Am I a horrible person because I immediately pitch in the trash, without reading one word, those long Christmas-themed letters that describe the minutia of the past twelve months in the lives of my friends and family?
What kind of question is that? What kind of person would you be if you actually read it?
Surabaya Stew
Not for nothing, but wasn’t Hillary given a chance to make universal health care happen 16 years ago? Didn’t work out too well as I recall. True, she wasn’t president then, yet I can’t imagine the GOP playing dead for her if she was in the White House today.
jwb
@stickler: I don’t think this fixes all of the Bush tax cuts, just the inheritance tax. Then, too, I don’t think the goopers would be all that displeased if the rates reverted to pre-Bush levels while the Dems are in control, since it gives them that issue to run on again.
Redshift
See now, if Democrats were as shameless as Republicans, back when this was being debate they would have had TV ads on scaring seniors about the Republican plan to get their children to kill them!
mr. whipple
Am I a horrible person to find out, only now, that this blog’s name refers to hot air and not what I imagined it referred to?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Max: How did YOU get on my mom’s christmas letter mailing list?
Her’s is worse than most, since she writes it pretending to be my stepfather. When you read it, he’s saying all these ridiculous things he’d never say and poking jokes at my mom’s cooking and foibles. And she wrote it all.
I only read it to find out what she considers important enough to relate about my life.
mcd410x
Is tonight’s Angel ep the one where Drusilla re-sires Darla? All kinds of awesome.
@DougJ: This.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Surabaya Stew: John is just trolling his own blog now. You’ll catch on.
Zifnab
@stickler: This.
I’m more than happy to sit back and watch this generation of Republican tax-o-phobes start yanking granny’s feeding tubes so they can dodge a tax hike in 2011.
It’s also worth noting that the capital gains tax drops another 5% next year. People making less than $60k(?) don’t pay a dime. Everyone else pays around 10%, I think.
It’s the lost taxes in living memory.
I’m looking forward to Republicans running on “Deficit! Deficit! Defi-full stop! Lower taxes! Lower taxes!” in 2010. They’ll be completely incoherent. All Obama has to do is sit back and let the Bush Era cuts expire. You don’t need Lieberman for that.
mercurino
I’m looking forward to these headlines in 2010:
* Crashergate: House to Subpoena Records of First Lady and White House Social Secretary
* Dowd: Obambi Blindsided by Willful White House Women
* House Armed Services Committee Probes Obama Threat to Close SAC
* Friedman: “Admin Shouldn’t Sacrifice Security for Healthcare Reform”
* Judiciary Committee Finds “Disturbing” Links between Admin and ACORN
* Dionne: “Scandals are Hurting Admin’s Agenda”
* Obama Birth Certificate Controversy Sparks Judiciary Committee Investigation
* Cohen: “Where There’s Smoke There’s Fire: Admin Needs to Come Clean”
* Boehner Calls Admin’s PhARMA Deal “Bribery,” Demands Investigation
* Lane: “Admin’s Deal with PhARMA Crosses Ethical Line”
* House to Investigate Administration Role in Blagojevich Bribery Case
* Broder: “If Admin Has Nothing to Hide, Why Not Testify?”
* House Republicans Mull Impeachment of Scandal-Plagued Obama
* WaPo Editorial Page: “Obama Should Resign for Good of Nation”
Max
@Just Some Fuckhead: OMG, Poor You! Your mom needs a hobby.
Surabaya Stew
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Thanks for the info re: JC; it’s been a while since I posted here. Have been reading and posting at Little Green Footballs recently. LGF has been a blast, as Charles Johnson has pulled his own John Cole/Andrew Sullivan and has now seen the light. Hopefully, I will return to commenting here more often in the future.
ellaesther
Fucking hell.
Green balloons! Green balloons!
Lolis
If Howard Dean thinks this is okay, fine by me.
Jim
Somebody help a newbie out: “Green balloons”?
Yutsano
@mercurino: DNFTT. That is all. Or no rugelach for you.
Brian J
On the bright side, all of those mythical family farms (and small businesses?) that are allegedly threatened by the estate tax will be preserved.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim: Green Balloons is what you say when you are tired of being sexually and physically assaulted by a Republican.
Lev
Hillary still has a chance! 2016, baby!
Nah. Clinton would have been a disaster as president. She was kind of a trainwreck as a candidate. I’m not sure that Secretary of the Treasury Mark Penn would have been up to the challenges of his office. I’m pretty sure incoming Fed Chair Terry McAuliffe wouldn’t be.
Come to think of it, both Clintons were absolutely terrible at staffing. Bill Clinton’s cabinet was full of mediocrities. He hired Jim Woolsey at the CIA, which was pretty bad, and then he hired Dick Morris, which continues to be inexplicable. And then there was the small matter of all the iffy characters from Arkansas that they knew. Was that why the wingnuts were so obsessed with Obama’s associations, because they were still fighting the last war with Clinton?
Now, I’m just thinking of Primary Colors. Good movie. One of Travolta’s rare non-shitty films.
jcricket
The ability Republicans have to convince 99.99% of the population that they’ll be subject to the estate tax, despite all evidence to the contrary, is nothing short of amazing.
Not to mention the fact that of the 0.01% that are theoretically subject to the estate tax, it’s trivial to avoid most of it (gift money to your kids, trusts, 529 contributions, etc.).
Talk about Washington being wired for Republican control. In a normal world this wouldn’t even be a topic of discussion.
Max
@jcricket:
I think its along the lines of those people who don’t have a pot to piss in think that just by voting Republican, they would be accepted at the Country Club.
Late Night Check This Out…
Trailer for Iron Man II.
I cannot wait to see this film. I heart RDJ.
Brian J
@Zifnab:
I’d like to think so, but considering how they lied through their teeth last time about the benefits to everyone who wasn’t rich, I’m not counting on them for honest next time, either.
Jim
@Just Some Fuckhead:
ach, yeah. Thanks, JSF.
jwb
@Jim: What Just Some Fuckhead said. In this context it is a request that everyone not participate in the circular firing squad of the left, which basically means don’t talk about HCR, especially about killing the bill.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim: Or, in a health care context it could broadly mean, don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining
ellaesther
@Jim: Ooh, sorry! I see that Just Some Fuckhead (hi, JSF!) helped you out here, but I also refer specifically to two earlier posts from yesterday, here and here.
It’s a cry for help in the wilderness, from a woman very, very weary of the bullshit of American politics.
burnspbesq
I’m annoyed about this. I was hoping I wouldn’t have to kill Mom and Dad next year.
jl
Green Balloons! Green Balloons! Green Balloons!
I can’t take it anymore. I was going to suggest Cole get a drink or watch reruns of the Stillers beating up on the Raiders, or get him some Tunchforce, or sumpin.
I had the intention of being a positive reassuring presence for poor Mr. Cole, who seems to be falling apart.
Then I read the story and now I am cranky. What a badly written story. This is a news story?
“As this year drew to a close, Democrats scrambled unsuccessfully to find an alternative to the wild swings in taxation. But they failed to persuade Republicans to agree to extend the current law, at least until a better approach could be devised.”
What does that mean? Where is the problem? in the House? in the Senate? If the Senate, why can this not go through Senate reconciliation? Or would that be impolite? Or, horrors, non post-partisan?
Or do the WH and Democratic Congressional leadership think a zero estate tax rate for the very rich during an election year is a good posture?
I dont’t know? Do you know?
The story is written like a gossip piece. House and Senate members are quoted wily-nilly. The formal legislative institutions that the writer seems to think pass laws are the Democrats and the Republicans.
Anyone have a link that will tell me what is going on? I am too demoralized to look right now. I need a drink.
I need a pic of Tunch.
Green Balloons!
jwb
@burnspbesq: So will you blame Obama or W for making you do it?
burnspbesq
@ellaesther:
Illegitimus non carborundum. And Happy Hanukah, also.
Martin
TimF is slacking.
My son earned his Jr black belt tonight and tomorrow is my last day of work for the year thanks to the Governator choosing to not pay me for the remainder.
Martin, +lost-count-because-he-got-a-new-bottle-of-Titos-tonight-and-nobody-will-notice-he’s-brainfucked-at-work-tomorrow.
jwb
@Martin: Seriously, and when we most needed him to be posting those gorgeous pictures as open threads for the green ballooners, he goes missing. What’s up with that?
burnspbesq
@jwb:
I will blame Grover Norquist, the US Chamber of Commerce, and the National Federation of Independent Business. And Frank Luntz.
And I will pimp my law school tax prof, who co-authored the definitive study of the politics of the estate tax.
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7919.html
Martin
@jwb:
I don’t know why he’s MIA, but I blame the Yankees.
ellaesther
@burnspbesq: I am ground man, I am ground. Not yet fine powder, but, time will tell!
And to you! Also, too!
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Citizen Alan made the observation in another thread that I was the first person he has seen troll their own commentary…lol!
I’m like, ‘where you been’? Trolling your own shit is a way of life here!
@Just Some Fuckhead:
People tire of that? Are you sure? Lately I am hearing lots of wistful-sounding comments about the coming Republican revolution so I assumed that some people are really hoping for more Republican beatings and abuse in the near future.
ellaesther
@jl: I hear you, my friend.
LB
They’ll fix it retroactively.
gwangung
Blaming the Yankees is ALWAYS called for.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
What’s this about an illegitimate fetus not being Wet or Dry(TM) sandpaper? Duh!
mcd410x
Snake in the woodshed. SNAKE IN THE WOODSHED.
jl
@LB:
“They’ll fix it retroactively.”
With a commission that will produce an all-or-nothing vote-up-or-down proposal for a trigger for trigger process for a definitive blue ribbon commission.
Max
@mcd410x:
I believe the correct phrasing is… there are muthafucking snakes in this muthafucking woodshed!
Yankee Hater
Poor George Steinbrenner. His kids about to push his wheel chair outta his luxery box.
Brian J
@Max:
It’s because they have lied about it incessantly and because they make a show of their lies. I remember how, when the laws regarding the estate tax were changed early on during Dubya’s first term, they had some guy drive a red tractor up to the bill signing. A pretty strong message was sent, despite the fact that there’s no record of a family farm being lost to the estate tax.
scarshapedstar
Yep, and we haven’t gotten out of Iraqistan yet either. Howard Dean, the blood of every fallen soldier is on your hands!
Balconesfault
All I know, is that if I’m some rich old SOB who inculcated in his kids the hatred of taxes, come next year’s Christmas Dinner at Junior’s house I’m brining a taster.
Cat Lady
OT-I recommend listening to the Messiah really loud as a balm for the soul, even as a non-believer, and especially as a non-believer. That baroque period produced such a sublime expression of the human spirit longing for a connection to our better angels. Bach, Handel, Mozart, Hayden. Enlightenment, bitchez.
When are we going to get a good Christmas music thread? I’ll start with The Christians and the Pagans. The solstice is nigh. It’s going to get darker earlier for 3 more days, then the light returns. W00t! Living in the cold and the dark gets really old.
CalD
Phase 1: Use Bully Pulpit.
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Policy objectives achieved.
It’s just crazy enough to work!
dday
This is ridiculous. Everyone is missing the boat on this.
Under current law, the estate tax expires in 2010, and then returns to Clinton-era levels in 2011, with a 55% tax on estates, with the first $1 million excluded.
The fix that the House passed, but the Senate has not, would make the estate tax permanent, but at 2009 levels, which are a 45% tax on estates, with the first $3.5 million excluded.
So if the Senate passes the bill, even with patching the one year, the CBO estimates the net impact to the budget is a LOSS of $235 billion dollars over ten years.
There is no reason on earth to exempt all the way up to $3.5 million for trust fund babies. If you’re going to patch 2010, patch it with levels from before George Bush fucked with the estate tax, and extend those out.
I’m counting on Senate dysfunction to never fix this, which would leave the government with more money.
Yutsano
@dday: If ever there was a time where I am thinking the filibuster is in our favor, it’s with this. However I think Senate inertia is enough to handle this matter all on its own.
jl
@dday: Thanks. I will think on it. Not sure I agree but at least you gave the story. Ever think of writing for the NY Times?
MaximusNYC
Yo, bloggers, I’mma let you finish, but my contribution to KeepingItRealWithMichaelSteele.com is the greatest meme mashup of all time! OF ALL TIME!
http://www.keepingitrealwithmichaelsteele.com/node/252
jcricket
@dday: Unfortunately that’s not how it works. 75 Senators will band together to make sure the dark, horrible injustice of the estate tax doesn’t hit the 0.01% of the population it so horribly, horribly murders and rapes (economically speaking).
The Senate must consider what’s important, natch.
jcricket
@Max: The greatest trick Republicans ever pulled is convincing po’ white folk that voting for tax cuts for the rich would ultimately benefit them. Although increasingly that’s not what they use, it’s more of the social stuff (mexican/muslim/black folk’s a gonna get you, better vote Republican)
That said, Iron Man 2 looks awesome. I can’t wait.
jwb
@dday: Except the centrists are going to tell us that they have fix this. You can almost count on it. Still, I can see how this is something progressives might be able to filibuster to gain leverage for other things if they have the stomach for it.
ETA: And you have to have at least 40 of them on board.
General Winfield Stuck
Want to see something really cool
arguingwithsignposts
@Cat Lady:
That is a great Christmas song. heart Dar Williams.
jwb
@General Winfield Stuck:
TPM: “Franken spokeswoman Jess McIntosh calls to clarify: Leadership today asked all the presiding officers to keep floor speeches — from Democrats, Republicans and, yes, Independents — within their time limits. McIntosh adds that Franken supports the provisions Lieberman was discussing.”
robertdsc-PowerBook & 27 titles
@MaximusNYC:
That is comedy gold. His buffoonery is put to maximum use. Bravo!
danimal
@Yutsano: That’s the way to use the Senate rules to our favor. Hold the estate class hostage and the GOP will deal.
@General Winfield Stuck: It’s a pleasure to see Holy Joe pushed around like that. A little cathartic release at this point in time can bring us all a little holiday cheer.
jl
@jwb: This is the problem I see too. I saw a GOPer quote about the horrendous tax increases that will take place after 2010. They are already starting.
Of course, if some people had the guts to use Senate reconciliation, it should be easy to fix right now in the Senat (right?). So why not do that and fix it now?
Where am I wrong?
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@MaximusNYC:
Excellent!
My mind is hard at work right now… Gotta find something good… Think… Think…
/smokeroilingfromears
Wile E. Quixote
The Blethen family, who owns the Seattle Times is a big opponent of the estate tax. This is because Frank Blethen, the current patriarch, wants to hand his dying newspaper empire off to his idiot children so that they don’t have to pay any estate taxes. To add insult to injury the Times is always bitching about health insurance costs for public employees, saying that the state government should join the race to the bottom that the private sector is running and screw their employees by reducing their health coverage. So I wonder if Frank Blethen is going to shoot himself in the head next year or if he’ll have an “accident” some time between 1 January and 31 December 2010.
Of course both of Washington’s senators, Murray and Cantwell are on board with reducing estate taxes, this despite the fact that Bill Gates Sr, is against the idea, because they want the endorsement of the dying Seattle Times and are afraid that if they don’t back eliminating estate taxes that Frank and Ryan Blethen will write nasty editorials about them and cause a Republican to get elected. This despite the fact that the last viable Republican candidate for senator was Slade Gorton who lost to Maria Cantwell in 2000 and that if Slade ran today he’d end up being teabagged in the primaries by members of his own party and despite the fact that the Republicans haven’t managed to win the governor’s office since 1980, when John Spellman, another Republican who would end up being teabagged by his own party if he ran today, came into office on Reagan’s coattails and because voters were fed up with Dixy Lee Ray.
I have to say that I’d be happy to let the children of the rich, such as Frank Blethen’s children, avoid paying taxes on their inheritances if their elders croaked in the next 12 months. In fact I think we should pass a law that legalizes murdering your parents during 2010 if you’re going to inherit an estate of over 3.5 million dollars. Sure, we’d lose a lot of tax revenue, but I think that watching the scheming children of the rich plan to off their parents would more than make up for this.
Steeplejack
Just arriving–late, as usual–so forgive me if I’m repeating what someone has said above.
The silver lining here is that these ancient fat cats are going to be worth more dead than alive to their heirs in ’10. Heh. Sleep tight, fat cats.
Yutsano
@Steeplejack: I wonder if the murder rate indeed is going to spike. Maybe Wile is gonna get his schadenfreude wish after all.
Comrade Luke
Two comments:
First, on the estate tax: does anyone actually believe Congress gives a shit about how much money the CBO says we’d get if they set the cap at $1mil? By setting the cap at $3.5mil they’re helping out the only people that matter: their political contributors, and even more importantly their own ancestors.
Second…Bill Clinton approves? NAFTA Bill Clinton? DADT Bill Clinton? Repeal Glass-Steagle Bill Clinton?
Goodie gumdrops.
Comrade Luke
@Wile E. Quixote:
Did you have to bring Frank Blethen into this? I was about to go to bed, and now I’m going to have nightmares.
So glad he’s the owner of the only paper in my region.
Also: Fuck him.
ETA: And let’s not forget all of Ryan Blethen’s qualifications to become an editorial writer at the Seattle Times. They are none. He has no background in journamammalism, other than the birth canal from which he entered the world.
Can we just rename the “death tax” repeal the Birth Canal Tax Exemption and be done with it?
John O
If we let the Death Tax expire, nothing will trickle down to us as it has these last 30 years.
Duh.
Calming Influence
Saying “this bill isn’t progressive enough so I wouldn’t vote for it” is over the top.
Saying “this bill doesn’t restrict legitimate access to abortion enough so I wouldn’t vote for it” smart political wrangling.
Fuck you.
Comrade Luke
This is unbelievable.
(end of block quote should go here; dunno why this has stopped working for me all of a sudden)
Apparently they had to wheel Robert Byrd in to get his vote.
But hey, let’s keep compromising with them, because they’re so willing to compromise.
Midnight Marauder
I have to say, “Black Jimmy Carter” might just be my favorite tag overall. I think it’s all in how it’s so artfully deployed, but regardless, it cracks me up every time.
@Calming Influence:
/head explosion.
+12
Yutsano
@Midnight Marauder:
I bow to thee sir. And I say this as a proud graduate of a drinking school.
Midnight Marauder
Edit (you have to find happyness where you can these days, amirite?): I feel like this song (Echo & The Bunnymen – The Cutter) is pretty much my theme song for this past week.
Midnight Marauder
Well, I definitely fucked that edit up. And I think we all know why.
@Yutsano:
This is obviously why.
Hat trick, FTW (So I hope, at least).
Yutsano
@Midnight Marauder: I’d say something along the lines of don’t pull me into this, but since I can’t really argue against your point, I’ll just go along with it.
Ian
Is this supposed to be snark? That law was passed in 2002, that would repeal the ‘death penalty’ for 1 year. That year was 2010. This is not the minority accomplishing their goals, this is still the end product of the Republican majority. This is more a testament to the pointless agenda that the Republicans ran with for twelve years. They could not even make their achievements last for more than a decade.
Yutsano
@Ian: I cannot speak for our fearless leader, but I took it as being snarky, especially since the left wing blogosphere has been calling Obama epic fail regardless of what happens. I could be wrong though, it’s happened before.
MTiffany
Yeah, but if we’d voted for Hillary in the primaries we’d be a bunch of racists, and apparently our collective White Liberal Guilt wasn’t having any of that nonsense. We should be so proud of what we’ve done.
In the words of Wanda Sykes “Who voted for the mulatto?”
El Cid
The damn hippies. If only they wouldn’t destroy everything, maybe we could ‘fix’ the estate tax repeal so that it wouldn’t expire so quickly, because if we don’t save the super-rich from bigger estate taxes, Ronald Reagan’s ghost will cry. This is all just ’cause hippies hate Paris Hilton. Damn them.
harlana pepper
Cole, the weekend is approaching. It’s about time you got your knickers untwisted and relax about hippies. May they rage on, the effect will be minimal, so relax and have fun. It’s Friday, for cripes sake.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Personally, I hope you like your 9,000 new PUMA pals.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
True that, they don’t do snark and will probably run over to pat John on the back now…lol!
rachel
Wow, do some people need their sarcasm detectors adjusted!
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@rachel:
I think yesterday broke a lot of shit around here. ;)
I am looking forward to today. Let the destruction begin!
/popcorn
sandflea loves jeffreyw
jeff, if you are out there lurking, I just want to say I’m sorry for being such a flaming asshole. I was not always the little ball of rage you once knew, I am no longer that angry person. In the spirit of Christmas (I know you don’t believe but it’s worth a shot), maybe in the spirit of Kindred Hippies, I hope you can forgive me.
sandflea (hp)
Napoleon
NPR this morning played a part of an interview Ben Nelson did for some Nebraska radio station, apparently yesterday, and now he has a bunch of problems with HCR which will cause him not to vote for closure (on top on abortion). Its stuff that has been in there forever in one form of another like expanding Medicare to help expand coverage and make coverage affordable for more, etc.
HCR is dead if he sticks to what he said in that interview.
Xenos
All they need to do is put a modest permanent estate tax fix (say, 2,000,000 exemption) together with a public option, and enough of a war tax surcharge to pay for it, all together in one omnibus reconciliation package. Maybe we could come up with a bill that nobody will vote for.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal): And we’ll have to rescue him when they put him in the Male Domestication Program with MyIQ=2. ROOOAR!
HRA
I do my best not to comment on HRC and other ones of which I don’t feel at all qualified to do so. On the other hand I get awestruck when I hear Howard Dean say he read the small print and finds faults otherwise not illuminated in the public view. Then, I hear my husband who was all for HRC prior to listening to Howard Dean saying kill the bill.
We needed Hillary as Senate majority leader. She would have rounded up that herd easily. I was never a Hillary supporter in my state or in the run for president. What I do know is she has what it takes to get things done now intellectually and forcefully in the Senate. This is where the ball was dropped.
WereBear
Sometimes, the two of us look at each other in astonishment, like last night when Rachel Maddow showed that clip of the Family legislators “praying health care away.”
We both feel like we have wound up living in a satirical science fiction future, and we don’t know how the book will end.
Hunter Gathers
Looks like I found my fun for the day.
http://www.keepingitrealwithmichaelsteele.com/
Demo Woman
John, Are you expecting snow this weekend? Make sure to take lots of pictures of Lily playing in the snow.
Fulcanelli
@WereBear:
Yeah, the same here with the wife and I when we saw the clip. We just sat there slack-jawed in disbelief.
His name escapes me thank FSM, but all I could think of while watching that uber-fanatic, anti-abortion carnival barker pastor barking about “praying for California” was meta hippie Wavy Gravy braying from the stage in the Woodstock movie. I half expected him to cry ““We must be in heaven, man!”
He sounds just like him… FTW.
“Mark me for Balloon-Juice!, Mark me!”
You can’t make this shit up.
Jack
@Fulcanelli:
Gotta rememberatize that this stuff resonates with 2 out of every 5 Americans.
SiubhanDuinne
@Fulcanelli
@WereBear
I had no one with whom to share in slack-jawedness at that clip, but my mouth was as agape as anybody’s. Actually I came to the program a couple of minutes after it started and the prayers were already in progress, and I swear I had to check the channel number to make sure I was watching MSNBC.
Maxwel
Look on the bright side – maybe some of the assholes will take advantage and suicide.
kay
@Napoleon:
He objects to Medicaid expansion.
“Nelson said even if the abortion issue were resolved, he still could not support the $848 billion package, complaining that the plan to cover more than 30 million additional Americans calls for dramatically expanding Medicaid, which is partially funded by the states. The Medicaid expansion would “create an underfunded federal mandate for the state of Nebraska,” Nelson said, arguing that states should be permitted to “opt out” of that idea and find other ways to offer coverage to their poorest residents. ”
Providers object to Medicaid (and Medicare) expansion. The reimbursement rate is lower in the public programs, particularly in rural areas. It’s lower in rural areas because there are fewer specialists. Rural practitioners complain that they get the same or better outcomes with fewer specialists (true, by the way) so they should be reimbursed at the higher rates that urban areas command.
Democrats focused on insurance companies because that’s politically palatable (people like their doctors) and insurance companies are (rightfully) loathed, but, in terms of expansion of public programs, provider opposition is a huge factor.
We spent too much time in this debate on the cost of health insurance, and not enough time on the cost of health care. I see the political calculus there, but eventually you have to start talking about the cost of health care. We’re at that point.
kay
@Napoleon:
Abortion is a smokescreen, in my opinion.
Nelson is carrying water for health care providers in rural majority states who object to the huge expansion of Medicaid in the Senate bill.
It would be nice if we could have an honest health care debate, but the political reality is, you can’t talk about providers.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@kommrade reproductive vigor: I miss myiq=.5aduck. He was funny. And speaking of PUMA’s, where is “there is no way on Earth that Obama can possibly win the election” p.huk hanging out now?
kay
@Napoleon:
“Nelson said even if the abortion issue were resolved, he still could not support the $848 billion package, complaining that the plan to cover more than 30 million additional Americans calls for dramatically expanding Medicaid, which is partially funded by the states.”
That’s what he says when he’s in his home state. For the national audience, he relies on abortion. The real objection is the expansion of Medicaid, IMO.
Jack
Slightly OT, and it took some research to nail down the exact copy actually now being debated, but:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3590.as:
This is the latest copy of what the Senate is about to vote on.
It’s worse than we DFH’s thought.
The language on rescission and annual/lifetime limits is punched through with opt outs and loopholes.
And with these being the “essential reforms” we’re all supposed to support, because at least these are improvements, any justification for supporting this even on the faith premise that it can be “fixed in the future” dissolve…
Wilson Heath
No one pays attention to the basis rule change. No stepped-up basis at death. If the heirs want cash, any profits untaxed at death get taxed, and I believe that includes from smaller estates that would have been exempt from the estate tax. The problem, besides the stupidity of one exceptional year and the administrative and compliance costs of dealing with it, is that lock in is encouraged for those who want to hold the assets and defer taxation until later. And the problem for the heirs is making sure that they have documentation of the acquisition price. That’s the real nightmare to avoid — some folks throwing mama from the train are going to be sorely disappointed.
Rick Taylor
And Republicans continue to obstruct and delay, while Democratic centrists do their work for them.
__
Republicans attempted to filibuster the defense appropriations bill, in order to chew up time on the clock.
__
mr. whipple
“Nelson is carrying water for health care providers in rural majority states who object to the huge expansion of Medicaid in the Senate bill.”
I don’t think they mind Medicaid and Medicare, but make the excuse they are reimubursed at a lower rate than less-rural states. ie.: give us more money.
Same as it ever was.
danimal
@kay: I think Nelson’s a lost cause, and our only real hope (for those of us still in support of the legislation) is that Senator Snowe comes through. It appears that most of her policy goals have been met, so I’m guessing she is looking for a political reason to vote for the bill. If there was another Republican willing to switch over (Collins?, Lugar? McInsane himself), I believe she’ll vote for the bill.
Just Some Fuckhead
Yeah, just like in ’93.
Jack
@Rick Taylor:
Ratchet and pawl.
Always rightward…
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jack: Just pass anything right now. We’ll worry about accounting for the TARP money later.
Napoleon
@kay:
And I think that kills the bill. It makes the bill that much more unaffordable for marginal people. If you had problems with mandates before on the stated theory that you think it is political suicide to have them without something like the public option for people to get coverage a little cheaper, the issue just got worse for you.
I think we may have reached the point, if Nelson is sucessful, where they really do need to kill the bill.
Of course my opinion doesn’t matter, but it becomes increasingly harder to see where HCR isn’t going to loose votes on the left.
kay
@mr. whipple:
Private insurance payments to providers essentially subsidizes Medicaid and Medicare. At the end of the day, that’s just a fact. More Medicaid and Medicare recipients drive down the per patient reimbursement rate, over a practice area.
Rural providers are technically correct when they complain about lower reimbursement rates than populous areas. Rural areas have fewer specialists, so rural people go to fewer specialists. Rates are determined (partly) by how many specialists a particular area has.
Rural providers claim (correctly) that they do the work of specialists, but don’t get paid for it. So, a general practice treats heart disease, but they don’t have a cardiologist in that area, so the reimbursement rate is lower.
They also have the same or better outcomes than areas with a lot of specialists.
Jack
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Fuck it. I don’t really have a nihilist streak, but it’s going to be fun watching “serious, mature” bowties vomit the blame leftward, on their way to well paid policy posts at Brookings and the CAP, in 2010 and 2012.
Just Some Fuckhead
FYI Napoleon, you don’t have to have a public option with an individual mandate. You could, for instance, simply mandate insurance companies offer a basic nonprofit health plan. Then some of the morality issues with an individual mandate would be averted.
D-Chance.
GOP, using the safety and very lives of our servicemen and servicewomen for political gamesmanship. Now, go buy another magnetic yellow ribbon for that car!
mr. whipple
What does the expansion of Medicaid have to do with making the bill unaffordable for marginal people?
kay
@Napoleon:
I’d agree with you if the Medicaid expansion is cut. Medicaid and Medicare provide a really powerful tool to keep costs down. Their reimbursement rates to providers are the baseline for private insurance reimbursement rates. That’s why you hear “Medicare + 5”, etc.
I think Nelson is probably trying to get rural providers more money, which is, after all, part of his job. He probably wants a higher federal subsidy to rural states for Medicaid.
But, if they succeed in gutting Medicaid expansion, I’d agree with you.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jack: It is our fault. Donchaknow if we were nicer, sparkly ponies with rainbow manes..
D-Chance.
The GOP, once again using servicemen and servicewomen for political gamesmanship…
mr. whipple
That’s what he wants. Also Snowe, Merkley. It’s a bipartisan holdup.
jibeaux
I am out of patience with these guys who find something to pick at over the bill, and then while everyone is busting at the seams to try to find an acceptable compromise for that, then deciding that they also have a problem with something else. It’s going to keep up until it St. Patrick’s Day and the latest problem is the font is just all wrong. It’s infuriating and I don’t know what to do about it. Going through Maine might be the best way, but for some reason they seem to want to kick the can further down the road, too.
D-Chance.
@D-Chance.:
Failure.
Only 3 Republicans supported the military funding.
kay
@mr. whipple:
Rural providers get the same or better outcomes with fewer specialists. They have a legit gripe on reimbursement rates.
If your GP is acting as your “cardiologist” and he’s getting the same results, shouldn’t his reimbursement rate be the same?
I’d go the other way. I’d lower reimbursement rates to specialist-heavy areas to GP rates, but that would be political suicide.
If we could talk about it, it would be great, but we can’t, because it’s politically untenable. We’d have to start talking about why specialist-heavy geographical areas don’t necessarily produce better outcomes, and then all hell would break loose.
Jack
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I know the drill. I was
invited to resign to avoid the inevitable case in front of the state commissionfired for letting my employees discuss unionizing.For the sin of providing them with – gasp! – literature.
Afterward, talking it over with some of the union guys who I’d worked with to educate my employees on their rights, I had the drill explained to me, sort of as a consolation prize (up until that point I’d been caught between insider moderate New England Republicanism and growing radicalism, so I could tell you how to get a Republican elected on fiscon/soclib platforms, but I didn’t know much about the history of union accomadation, etc).
If the union (insert any person or group left of Evan Bayh) pushes “too hard,” the triangulators smack down hard. They cut ties, or funding, or access. Which hurts the advocacy group, not the politician. If they don’t support “the center” or “serious policy” with appropriate gusto, then wash, rinse, repeat.
When things go wrong, though, they get to eat all the blame.
Xanthippas
Oh what do you know, I wrote something about this very article. Actually, it was the capital gains tax stopgap that I found the most interesting about the article, a tax that-bizarrely-Kyl actually defends.
Jon H
If this isn’t changed, then y’all ought to cook up a big batch of popcorn on New Years’ Day.
Because you just know a whole bunch of rich folks are going to kick the bucket in suspicious circumstances next year.
Will
@mr. whipple:
FTW!
DBaker
@dday:
This is exactly right.
Also: “As between paying 45 percent and 15 percent, I think it is pretty clear what most small business folks and farmers would like to do,” said Senator Jon Kyl, Republican of Arizona and a longtime foe of the estate tax.
….. shows me that Mr. Kyl doesn’t know what the fuck he is talking about. He has latched onto a GOP talking point (the estate tax is hurting Farmer Joe out in the heartland), while discounting the fact that most people (who are of course low information people) want cash when their parents die. (think of the crusty old man from JG Wentworth ads who says “do you want CASH for your structured settlement?????”)
The kids don’t want that house in the crappy neighborhood that Mom and Dad bought in 1955 and never improved since, they want cash. Before they would owe zip when the property was sold because there would be virtually no capital gain, under the new craptacular law they would owe 15 percent to 28 percent tax, depending on the asset.
Kyl obviously doesn’t understand or care that the estate tax rate is UP TO 45 percent, in other words the actual rate depends on the deductions one might receive. 99 percent of people in the United States THINK that they pay 28-35 federal tax, when in fact after deductions and that refund they only pay an average of about 10 – they just think that the refund in February is from the Uncle Sam fairy or something……
scarpy
One thing that the shitty Dem PR folks haven’t made the country aware of is that, in fact, the estate tax’s expiration means that everyone who inherits property this year but is NOT rich will get a tax INCREASE.
That’s because the law requires the IRS to start calculating earnings from sold estate property differently this year. It’s changing from what’s called “stepped-up basis” to “carryover basis.”
Under the law now, if you inherit, say, $250,000 (your parents’ house, maybe), the law assumes that you’ve “purchased” the house for that amount. So when you sell it for $270,000, you will pay capital gains taxes on the $20,000 difference between that “purchase” price and however much you sell it for.
The Republicans, in order to make estate tax repeal look “cheaper,” changed that rule. Now when you sell that house, you will pay taxes on the difference between the sale price and the ORIGINAL price when your parents bought it. So if they’ve been there a long time, factoring in inflation and appreciation, let’s say they bought it for $30K. You’ll owe capital gains tax on the difference between $270K and $30K.
This “repeal” would ONLY benefit those with estates large enough to owe serious estate taxes — bigger than $3.5 million this year, or $1 million in 2011.
Not only that, but it actively screws the average person getting a modest inheritance.
Now: Dems have offered to make this year’s estate tax law permanent, which would not only be a huge boon for rich people, but would also protect people with more modest estates. But the GOP has blocked it in order to force an even bigger tax cut for the rich.
But my question is why are the Dems not screaming from the rooftops about this hidden tax increase the Republicans passed??
Even if you assume as I do that the Dems’ pymasters are just a different social set among the uber-rich, they still have a fucking good talking point to undermine the GOP. But no one knows about it.
Kevin K.
Hillary isn’t strong enough. Only President Harriet Christian can save us now.
DBaker
One thing that the shitty Dem PR folks haven’t made the country aware of is that, in fact, the estate tax’s expiration means that everyone who inherits property this year but is NOT rich will get a tax INCREASE.
Here in Maryland, people still think that Booby Ehrlich never raised taxes, when, in fact, he passed the largest tax increase in Maryland history (in revenue terms) by allowing the Maryland estate tax to be decoupled from the federal one.
Democratic PR people miss these chances in front of an open goal all the time – it is amazing to me that “not funding the troops” has not been flogged to death already – not only did they do it last night in the Senate, the GOP did it in the house as a stalling tactic as well!
Will
@HRA:
I don’t see how someone like Hillary, who had only been in the Senate for 8 years (compared to Reid’s 22 years), could really have the developed relationships and understanding of each senator’s push-pull points necessary to cobble together a winning coalition among the various ideologies and constituencies of a 60-vote caucus. She certainly has never shown that kind of ability in the past.
Jay in Oregon
@Steeplejack:
Oh sure, when us DFHs complain that insurance companies make more money off of denying health care coverage and/or letting people die, we’re crazy shrill moonbats.
But giving every hungry trust-fund baby a reason to bump off Daddy Warbucks sometime in the next twelve months is going to fly under the radar? Seriously?
Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the oligarchs?
Maude
@Will: The Dems voted Hillary out of the Senate to the SoS. She’d been claiming credit for work done by others when she was running for prezdent.
HRA
@Will:
“I don’t see how someone like Hillary, who had only been in the Senate for 8 years (compared to Reid’s 22 years), could really have the developed relationships and understanding of each senator’s push-pull points necessary to cobble together a winning coalition among the various ideologies and constituencies of a 60-vote caucus. She certainly has never shown that kind of ability in the past.”
I would not only count Hillary’s term in the Senate. She’s been in and around politics for most of her life. Do I dare mention Bill as an asset, too?
I never knew or heard of Reid before he became Senate majority leader. I am not referring only to media news about Reid. I worked on cataloging Senate hearing for 10 years (1990-2000) and never saw his name.
Will
@HRA:
Hillary’s time dealing with the Senate while in the White House with Bill consisted of a) writing a health care bill in private and then dumping it in the Senate’s lap accompanied by the words “sign it”; b) watching the Senate acquit her husband. The Clinton White House was never known for dealing well with either its Dem majority pre-94 or its GOP majority post.