The NY Times:
Members of both parties say the dispute over health care has created bad blood, left both Democrats and Republicans suspicious of the opposition’s motives, and shattered some of the institution’s traditional collegiality.
At the same time, Democrats say the apparently unbridgeable health care divide has convinced them that Republicans are dedicated solely to blocking legislative proposals for political purposes. Several said they now realized that they would have to rely strictly on their own caucus to advance such defining issues as climate change in 2010.
“We have crossed the mark of over 100 filibusters and acts of procedural obstruction in less than one year,” Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, said on the floor Sunday. “Never since the founding of the Republic, not even in the bitter sentiments preceding Civil War, was such a thing ever seen in this body.”
And with rats like Stupak, you can’t even rely on your entire caucus, although he has not been stirring up any shit the last two days, so I am wondering if he got the horse head in the bed and took the message.
(Via the GOS)
Jim
At the same time, Democrats say the apparently unbridgeable health care divide has convinced them that Republicans are dedicated solely to blocking legislative proposals for political purposes.
How many times do the Republicans have to say it, out loud and explicitly, before it sinks in? I’m guessing not as many for Dems as it will/would take for the Beltway media
Noonan
Most informative part of that article was the advertisement for a MTV Jersey Shore guidebook.
Yo what’s The Situation?
Also too Congress was much healther a couple years ago when not supporting the GOP agenda was accepted as a form of domestic terrorism.
Joe Beese
As if Rahm Emmanuel would ever try to intimidate a political adversary by sending them a dead animal!
Maybe Stupak is just satisfied that Nelson did enough to shame the sluts.
Shalimar
The first of Rahm’s conservaDems bails on the party: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/12/cue_the_crowing.php
Maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to spend all that DCCC money to elect Reps who don’t actually support anything in the Democratic party platform?
NovShmozKaPop
No! Where would they get an idea like that…?
Just Some Fuckhead
No worries, climate change legislation and financial reform will be different. I haz a shiny pony.
NobodySpecial
@Shalimar:
Oh, they support the party alright, as long as the party doesn’t make them do something unreasonable like vote for gay folks or gummint health care.
Comrade javafascist
Oh, come on, Sheldon. A few more sternly worded letters and they might come around.
El Cid
It took about until late 2005 for the average Democratic leading politician to understand that the Bush Jr. administration was an anti-Constitutional criminal gang of thugs, over a year too late for John Kerry. Purple heart bandaids everybody!
Shalimar
@NobodySpecial: Can people name a few things they support that are actually Democratic principles? Not that conservaDem chase-the-cash-by-coddling-corporations crap that Rahm lives by because all of that is electioneering rather than governing. I mean positions that are actually in the platform.
jrg
It’s not about what’s right or wrong for the country, it’s about making the know-nothings feel relevant.
…Kind of like insisting that “God did it” is a testable hypothesis (nay, a scientific theory). In their heart of hearts, the rubes know it’s bullshit, but they still have to feel like they are accomplishing something important.
It’s all about self-esteem. The Republicans in the Senate are to GOP voters as Barney the Dinosaur is to toddlers.
wilfred
I’m curious. If the Stupak Amendment stands, should the bill be passed? I mean it survived the loss of the public option, mandates and the quick hook of the medicare option and all we heard was let’s pass this bill with all its imperfections.
Would the Stupak Amendment be just one more imperfection or a gored ox worthy of killing the bill?
John Cole
@Just Some Fuckhead: I like that jujitsu you are doing there. As you have spent the last two weeks pretending there were 50 votes for reconciliation and 60 for a stronger bill through the normal process, arguing with those of us who have tried to be realistic and say “No, that would never happen,” you then come in and accuse us of chasing ponies. Well done.
aimai
Still, its what I’ve been arguing elsewhere–in the short and long run this is an incredible step forward for the Democrats. I’m all for a big tent, but the Democrats have always mistaken the big tent for…well…a formless, structureless, wall-less mess with no boundaries. I think a few people like this guy griffith and maybe stupak actually leaving will be very salutary, and the forced march towards unity or death symbolized by this health care vote equally so. Bipartisanship is about to die a well deserved death, and Democratic attempts to work across the aisle are going to appear more and more in the light of treason to the democratic caucus than sensible centrism.
How do you claw back to civility after Coburn wishes death to Byrd on the Senate floor? I mean, jerusalem crickets what does it take for Republican evil to stand and get recognized around here?
aimai
John Cole
@wilfred: I don’t think it can stand- that truly would rip the Democrats apart far more than the public option.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Are these people that dense?
Oh wait, asked and answered.
Maybe, just maybe, this portends the Dems finally just proceeding with a legislative agenda, do all the hard negotiating with our own caucus, then pass the shit.
Send Senaturds like Snowe and Collins back to being inconsequential, minority back benchers they way they should have been since the day Franken was sworn in.
New Yorker
What do you expect, Shelly? The GOP is a religious cult and they consider the Democratic Party to be an agent of Satan. There is no negotiating with such loons.
Citizen Alan
Well Stupak has probably been quiet because it’s Christmas time and since he’s a member of that creepy C-Street sex cult, he’s probably been too busy preparing for their annual Christmas Eve Key-Swapping Party to pay attention to this. Besides, the bill hasn’t made it to conference yet, so there’s still time for him to agitate for an amendment to allow for the stoning of unmarried pregnant women.
danimal
The GOP is screwed. If the GOP really has convinced the Dems that they are negotiating in good faith, Dems won’t bother to include them at all in the bill development process. Behind the scenes, staffers work across the aisle on most bills every year. If the Dems conclude that the GOP is dealing in bad faith (which, for the most part, they are), then bills will be designed to attract the 60 most liberal members of the Senate rather than appealing to the center. This will result in much more liberal legislation (though probably never liberal enough to convince anyone on the left that Obama and congressional leaders are anything but sellout corporatists).
The flirtation moves by the GOP stalled the Dems for a while, but if they never put out…
Annie
Just love this — Michelle Bachmann’s family has received approx. $250,000 in federal farm subsidies over the last few years.
This is the same “anti-socialist” Michelle Bachmann, who opposes entitlements and government handouts…And, the same Michelle Bachmann who participated last week in the Family Research Council special pray meeting against health care reform. And the same MB who has spoken at every DC tea bagger event…
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Lessons learned from this Congress:
You pass crappy, watered-down legislation with the
loyal oppositionseditious neo-Confederate insurgency trying to ruin the country you have, not the one you wished you had.EconWatcher
I think Obama will have to change his approach if he wants something real on financial reform. There are specific dragons to slay. They are ready for the fight; they have flooded Congress with money; and they have a lot more where that came from.
IMO, he can’t leave this one to Congress and work in the shadows. He has to name names. He has to be willing to call out those who will try to defend the indefensible. He has to kick the political legs out from under the opponents of reform.
I’ll be very interested to see if he has it in him. I believe his delay has already weakened his hand. But maybe he has a plan.
stacie
All true, but Josh Marshall is right that the House isn’t merely a rubber stamp for Joe Lieberman’s (or Ben Nelson’s) Senate. If that pattern persists, I suspect we’re in for some bad times.
A Mom Anon
When people show you who they are,believe them. I think that was Maya Angelou who said that,whoever said it is right on the money. I have no problem with wanting to see the best in people,but when people insist they’re going to be assholes,there’s really no reason to think they don’t mean it.
Annie
oops, made BJ purgatory again — i never know what it is I say that lands me here…
srv
Why do we need a Senate when all we need is Lieberman and Nelson? I for one would rather have lobbyists write the legislation from the start and then have them flip for who it will be named after. Much quicker way to achieve reform in a modern democracy.
GReynoldsCT00
@A Mom Anon:
That was Maya Angelou… I live by that
jrg
I sure hope so. The Dems need to wake up. GOP voters treat their party like a football team, or an inspirational speaking show. Once they stop feeling good about showing up to vote, they will stop showing up to vote.
It’s pretty clear at this point it’s not about actual policy differences (where were the teabaggers during Bush’s 8 years, anyway?). It’s about self-esteem. If GOP voters are denied the affirmation they get from feeling relevant, they will be less of a force at the polls.
Lolis
I know some people want to solely blame Obama for the various delays, but the White House was one the cracking the whip on Max Baucus and Harry Reid. Remember all the deadlines the White House set? Nancy Pelosi met them.
Most of the senators when asked a few months ago did not want to pass health care via reconciliation, even Sen. Russ Feingold. Senators were afraid to use their power to eliminate the filibuster.
I think after the stimulus plan, the Obama administration learned that Republicans (with the possible exception of Snowe) would not support his agenda strictly out of partisanship.
I don’t really care if people want to blame Obama, but I think Democrats in the Senate were the ones who pushed bipartisanship and delayed this process so much the whole thing almost collapsed. I hope they don’t unlearn this lesson.
PeakVT
@stacie: The question is: how does the House cut the Senate back down to its original size without doing something stupid like enacting its own filibuster rule?
Grayson is the only Represenative who I’ve heard talk publicly about the Senate’s constipation.
jibeaux
Getting down to what’s important, are they signaling some intent to do something about the filibuster rules or not?
Will
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/rep-parker-griffith-switc_n_400575.html
This is clearly the result of the health care bill not being progressive enough for Rep. Griffith. Why didn’t Obama bully pulpit this guy into submission?
Brick Oven Bill
In Federalist 10, Madison teaches us of the dangers of Faction. The goal of the modern Left has been to increase the numbers of low-IQ voters that will create a permanent majority faction that will keep the leadership of the modern Left (Goldman) in control.
This has effectively been achieved within the boundaries of the City of Chicago, which is now bankrupt. The modern Left’s goal is to expand this model of government, but this just doesn’t work. It is not a sustainable model for humans to exist based upon financial reality. Financial reality mandates that most people be productive.
In Federalist 46, Madison expresses his doubt that future generations of American would continue to fund a government that would control them:
“That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterrupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism.”
From Federalist 46, we can predict that the next step in our American Experiment will most likely be a tax revolt among the minority Faction (‘no representation without taxation’?). The difference between Madison’s thoughts and 2009 is that Madison imagined that the military would be loyal to the ‘traitor’. This is likely why, when Madison later penned the Constitution, he made the military loyal to a document, and not a man.
Madison placed his trust in the Ideals of the Founding, not in men. This was smart.
Keith G
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: I love how Donald Rumsfeld will be with us for, oh, so many years. And in more ways than one.
On topic:
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
I just think that the Dems have had a run of bad luck (maybe). They/we have just not had the prime genetic stock around for worthy Senators. Oh, there have been one or two, but the rest are small people with equally small minds. Dense, dense [email protected]<a href=”#comment-
Zifnab
@srv:
Lieberman and Nelson didn’t write the bill. Hell, even Nelson had the decency to take his bribe, sit down, and shut up. Holy Joe got his one stab in at the liberals, and the rest of the bill made it through.
There is good stuff in the bill. And if it survives the judicial system, it’ll be good for the country for a long time to come. But this bill is hardly the industry’s best friend. It turns a lot of business models on their heads and will result in a whole mess of policy changes and any army of actuaries recalculating health care plans over the next few years.
Nothing was really what the insurance companies would have preferred. But they didn’t have the votes for that.
Citizen Alan
@Zifnab:
I assume you meant “bribe” or else I really need to reread the bill.:)
Zifnab
@Annie:
I am kinda curious what these prayer meetings are doing to Republican activism. On the one hand, you have an opportunity to pull religious voters further into the GOP camp while making health care an anti-religious issue. And of course, there’s plenty of fund raising opportunity at these things. On the other hand, I can’t help but think that telling several million people to “pray really hard and make it go away” only to have the bill pass after all is demoralizing.
I can’t help but think that the churches who are pushing this agenda are going to suffer for it in terms of faith and congregation.
Zifnab
@Citizen Alan: Yes. Yes I do.
Thank you, edit button gods.
Citizen Alan
@Zifnab:
More seriously, this is something that has really been bugging me. If the universal mandate is struck down as unconstitutional, what effect will it have on the rest of the bill? Because I really do think that the Roberts Five will have a serious problem with it. Heck, I believe in a pretty vigorous Commerce Clause and I have some concerns about it.
SGEW
@jrg; @A Mom Anon:
I highly recommend Julian Sanchez’s piece at True/Slant, “The Politics of Ressentiment,” along with his follow-up post, “Ressentiment Redux.” Key lines:
. . .
Joshua Norton
There’s been temporary dancing in the streets because wingnuttery has picked up another Dem Congresscritter. But now the buyer’s remorse begins.
Of course, “Democratic Congressman from Alabama” has always been pretty much just another way of saying “Republican”.
Lolis
@wilfred:
The Stupak amendment is unlikely to stand, but the Nelson amendment will be in there. As a feminist, I understand why abortion became an important symbol for women’s liberation, but the truth is abortion is barely accessible for many women in the country. If you live in the south your state probably only has one or two cities where you can get abortion. If you are a poor woman abortions are not covered by Medicaid in many states. So you would have to find a ride, get time off work, and pay for your own abortion right now. Basically the Nelson amendment preserves the status quo because it lets state’s decide. The truth is pro-choicers have been steadily losing the battle for women to have access to abortions for decades.
As a woman with chronic medical conditions, I support this health care bill for very personal reasons. I still believe it is worth passing for women. Women won’t be charged higher premiums than men. Women will have greater access to birth control, preventative health, and won’t wait till they have insurance to have lumps in their breasts looked at.
It would be awesome if somebody attached a Viagra exclusion to the Nelson amendment. Viagra is not the same as abortion but it would make a symbolic point.
JenJen
This is funny… per Steve Benen, apparently the NRCC is scrambling to remove attack ads they ran against Parker Griffith in 2008. Back then, it seemed Alabama’s newest Republican believed “America’s greatest enemy is America and its materialism.”
Citizen Alan
@Zifnab:
No. When God grants your prayers, it means he’s rewarding you because you’re a good Christian. When God doesn’t grant your prayers, it means he’s testing you because you’re a good Christian. In other words, whatever happens, you get to feel sanctimonious and superior about it. And this is true regardless of what you pray for, whether it’s a good parking place in front of the mall or the death of Robert Byrd.
WaterGirl
@EconWatcher: I think Obama will change his approach. If there is one thing I saw in the primaries, it was that Barack could see when something wasn’t working. Then the campaign would go quiet for a couple of days and then they would make a change.
Barack is one smart guy, and I think he likes making mistakes even less than most of us do. I don’t think he makes the same one twice.
What I’d like to see is the sort of thing that happened at the DNC rules committee meeting (can’t recall the name but they were deciding about FL and MI). There was the public meeting, then they broke for lunch, which turned into a longer-than-expected lunch break. When they returned, it was clear that they had choreographed how this was going to go: who was going to propose what, who was going to protest, etc.
Since the Republicans have shown (to anyone who is paying the slightest attention) that they are all about blocking progress and not about accomplishing anything, I think Obama and the democrats now have a free pass to mostly give up on bipartisanship and just try to get stuff done.
My hope is that after January, they will do all the democratic negotiating behind the scenes – along the lines of the DNC rules committee meeting I described above – and have the democratic in-fighting be a lot less public than it has been.
Not sure if I’m right, but that’s what I think.
Martian Buddy
@Will: I love the hyperbole in some of the reporting–it’s like the 2009 governor’s races all over again. One Dixiecrat deciding to go with truth in labeling is a “coup” now? Ph34r teh Republican resurgence!
Ed Drone
Umm… Stupak is in the House, not the Senate, so is not part of the filibuster/cloture calculation at all, I think.
Ed
Shalimar
@Brick Oven Bill:
Who is this Gold Man who leads me? Is it really G. Gordon Liddy in disguise? That sounds like the ultimate dirty trick.
Laura W
@John Cole:
I think I saw him accuse Stuck of chasing dinosaurs.
The Fuckhead & Stuckhead Show has been awesome.
Tsulagi
No shit. A Special Olympian learns way, way faster than these guys. As additional evidence…
Only “several”? Just now realized? And these are the guys playing 11D chess?
Citizen Alan
@Ed Drone:
No, but he’s been bleating about how the Nelson slut-shaming amendment doesn’t shame enough sluts and that he and the 40 or so panty-sniffers he claims are backing him will not vote for the bill that comes out of conference if it doesn’t have have a stronger slut-shaming amendment in it. It’s the sort of thinking one might expect from somebody who belongs to that creepy C-Street sex cult.
Betsy
Sigh…a girl can dream.
bemused
Dems can’t possibly just recently come to the conclusion the R’s will block everything for political purposes & they will have to rely only on themselves to accomplish anything. They can’t be that clueless, not after over a decade of Republican games. I don’t get what’s up with this sudden epiphany.
tamied
@Citizen Alan: Which just goes to show you, this is good news for Republicans.
JenJen
@Laura W: I know! Every time they start up again, though, I feel like I haven’t had nearly enough to drink.
@Zifnab: It was way better before the edit. :-)
danimal
@bemused: They’re not. More likely, they’re about to pivot to a more confrontational stance on jobs and financial reform. Dems can say that they’ve reached out, but the GOP just bit their hand. Once HCR reform is passed, the Dems will be in campaign mode for the next year.
El Cid
O/T: The Mexico City legislature has voted to legalize gay marriage and adoption.
Brick Oven Bill
“Make the enemy live up to their (sic) own book of rules,”
Glenn Beck, months ago, was the first popular commentator to highlight the Cloward-Pivens strategy. Limbaugh is now talking about it.
This strategy, in my opinion, is exactly what is now being executed. The collapse of the economy by expanding the welfare roles is seemingly being purposefully sought by this Administration and Congress.
This is the only thing that makes sense.
Laura W
@JenJen: You have no one to blame but yourself there, Sweetie Pie.
Stuck Fuck.
Fuck Stuck.
Ha! Easily amused in NC.
El Cid
I guess that explains Bush Jr. 2004.
bemused
@danimal:
I’d noticed that this seems to be the direction they are heading but did it have to take them so damn long?
Kyle
The goal of the modern Left has been to increase the numbers of low-IQ voters
The goal of the radical right is to increase the number of low-IQ politicans.
aimai
SGEW, great link–great article. Also, I too, live by that Maya Angelou line. I’m always using it to explain to my daughters that people essentially mean what they do, even if they say they are doing something else. So: watch their hands, and not their mouths.
Also, in re Nelson taking his “bride” and shutting up apparently he’s having second thoughts about just how naked the whole thing was–which I think is hysterical. Does he really think he can come out ahead by giving back the 100 percent funding? Its the exact opposite of the old joke “I know what you are, now we’re just arguing price.” No, Nelson, you can’t get your virginity back by handing back the cash.
aimai
Kennedy
I’ll believe it when I see it.
I don’t expect anything to change on future legislative initiatives. I’ve said it before, but if you think the GOP lost their shit on HCR, just wait until the Dems introduce immigration reform.
Kyle
They’ve just realized this now?
This is up there with Hirohito’s “the war is not necessarily proceeding to our advantage” surrender speech.
AngusTheGodOfMeat
Is our Dems learning? I hope they are learning that when things don’t work in DC, the party in power gets blamed for it, whether they are the cause of it or not.
For that reason, the GOP is good at sticking together like glue when they have the majority in congress. They gave GWB his veto-free terms and themselves a free pass on the Pork Magic Mountain Fun Ride and never broke a sweat doing it.
Moral, Dems have to learn to stick together even though they may despise each other. Sticking together is what gives a coalition its power. There is no use scraping together 60 seats if you are going to whittle it down to 52 with infighting. Eh?
The way you beat the minority obstruction is by building majority solidarity. That builds confidence in the voters that their majority means something, and it shows the opposition that elections count.
someguy
Whitehouse got it right over the weekend when he pointed out correctly that the R’s are basically the party of aryan nations white supremacy, militias and other right wing extremists. He’s turning into quite the solon, old Sheldon.
stacie
@Joshua Norton: For the record, I grew up in Huntsville, Alabama, which is the district in question. Bud Cramer was the Democrat representing that district from sometime in my early years to the last election.
Amusingly enough, my dad’s a small business owner over there and a Republican, and he’s had a terrible time getting Griffith’s staff to assist him with anything. He’s been grumbling for months about how they’re punishing him for having contributed to Republican campaigns. Guess he’ll have to find another excuse now.
asiangrrlMN
@Annie: Sockulist, Annie. It has the dreaded boner pill in it. Fuck Michele Bachmann with ten rusty pitchforks and a golden Garden Weasel. Although, she does raise a lot of money for the local Democratic Party. And, where are our kitteh pics?
@El Cid: I hate you for linking to B.o.B. The fact that I read even a smidgen of his screed means I have to burn out my eyes with HCL acid now. Thanks.
I cautiously take this to mean that there will be less pandering to the GOP/Blue Dawgs and more actual governing. We shall see. I am glad to at least see it being said. And, as I have stated elsewhere, I am liking our new brand of liberals (Grayson, Franken, Weiner, et al). They’re not afraid to stir shit up.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Laura W: You go to flame wars with the dumbasses you have, not the dumbasses you’d like to have.
gex
@Citizen Alan: Well, I like to think that if this HCR gets
rejectedgutted by the SC and then tanks, the issue will come around again sooner rather than later. The reason it came to a head is because the current situation is untenable to the point where all the efforts of industry and a recalcitrant Senate realized something superficial had to be done. It won’t suddenly get better.I fervently hope that if it comes around sooner, memories will be better. When people once again demand that something, anything, be done to fix it, they will remember the right and the center’s actions this time. That memory will be bolstered by a right wing heavy Supreme Court making sure that the status quo gets to continue harming Americans and this country. It might be a matter of good jurisprudence to do so, I won’t speak to that, but the politics of it amid the health care disaster won’t play well.
I can hope, right?
SGEW
@El Cid: @Kyle:
N.B.: When B.O.B. writes “low-IQ voters” he literally means “non-caucasians and females.” Literally.
oh really
There was collegiality before the health care bill?
Man, they did a good job of hiding it.
asiangrrlMN
@SGEW: Ha! I would put my IQ up against his at any time.
@pj: I’d chip in a few bucks for that.
FlipYrWhig
@bemused:
They needed to have the health care bill to point to as an example of how they can in fact accomplish something even under Republican dead-ender obstructionism. Because otherwise it just sounds like whining that the Republicans are mean. I really do think that the paradox of Democratic partisanship is precisely that people don’t like either “partisanship” OR whining about partisanship, so to be a partisan you have to first show that the other side is being partisan.
IMHO the “bipartisan” sounds Obama likes to make are not for the benefit of Republican politicians or pundits, they’re for the benefit of people who might _vote_ Republican but aren’t that plugged in and don’t pay that much attention. That group — a frustrating group, mind you — seems to like the idea that politicians project a sense of listening to the arguments of the other side, as a gesture of goodwill.
And it strikes me that this piece is part of the same dance: “Golly gee, we thought our friends on the other side of the aisle might want to help us deal with the big problems facing our wonderful country, but they turned their backs on us. We sure hope they won’t do that again.” Of course we all know they _will_ do it again and again and again, but it sets up the Democrats as good sports and the Republicans as assholes. And if the Republicans weren’t at least a little worried about it they wouldn’t sent their people out on the political talk shows to complain about how big mean Democrats didn’t listen to them enough.
pj
I’d pay cash money to see Sen. Byrd wheeled right up in front of Sen. Coburn’s desk on Christmas Eve, and parked there throughout the roll call.
Shalimar
@Brick Oven Bill:
Dude, I’ll let you in on a secret very few people know. Glenn Beck isn’t actually commenting on public events on his radio and TV shows every day. What he is doing is writing the first serial thriller ever, in real time. Just wait until you get to read the abridged version in a few years, it’s going to be better than anything Brown or Patterson could ever dream up.
Malron
I think what this proves is Congress thought the “old boy network” would trump political ideology like it has in the past and Democrats were too naive to think the GOP actually intended to obstruct everything once Obama took office.
I think it also suddenly dawned on them that Obama isn’t the one who’ll have to worry about getting voted out in 2010.
SteveinSC
More of “the scales fall from their eyes”: This morning in the Senate, around 8:15 the senators began their “your turn/my turn” trading time slots. Shortly later a hilarious exchange began. Baucus got up and it seemed he was about ready to unload on the repukes, but he contented himself with an enumeration of anti-HCR misrepresentations and republican refusals to negotiate in good faith. Thereafter, Kay Bailey Hutchinson rambled a bit, after which, the piece de resistance, David (Diaper Dick) Vitter came to the podium. After introducing his own 5-part (only 25 pages each, he crowed) republican HCR “plan”, Vitter launced into an histerical mischaracterization (complete with story charts) of the bill. Baucus sputtered and fumed, asked time to respond, was refused and Vitter slimed to a halt. Baucus lept to his feet looking for Vitter, who had slithered out of the Senate chamber. I thought Baucus would shit. He did everything but call Vitter, a coward. “Where is he?” “I wanted to ask him some questions.” “He’s fled the room.”
This was, of course, after the third 60-40 (or 60-39) vote on cloture or moving the bill. One more to go.
JGabriel
Brick Oven Bill:
I can’t even respond to this shit anymore. Lately, whenever I mock BOB, I feel dirty — like I just mocked someone at the Special Olympics, or someone with schizophrenia. Like I’m insensitively teasing someone I should be pitying.
To be honest, I pretty much feel that way about the entire Glenn Beck fanclub / Tea Party movement. They’re just too stupid for words, or even contempt.
.
Citizen Alan
@gex:
I was unclear. I don’t think the SC will strike down the entire bill, but might arguably find the universal mandate unconstitutional because it exceeds Congress’ powers under the Commerce Clause. If it does so, the rest of the bill will remain intact. I was idly wondering what the response of Congress and the Obama Administration might be if the SC takes out the universal mandate, since the prohibitions on pre-existing conditions and recissions were based on the assumption that people couldn’t just wait until they got sick to get insurance but would be required to do so immediately.
gwangung
Yeah, pretty much exactly for me. Of course, whether or not Democratic congresscritters take this to heart is another question….
danimal
@gwangung: The other part of the equation is, like many others have pointed out recently, many of our congresscritters aren’t that bright. They’re much more trusting than the facts on the ground warrant.
Seebach
Well, I’m glad the democrats finally fucking figured this out.
Brick Oven Bill
‘The Enemy’ to these well-compensated Columbia University professors, Cloward and Piven, is self-sufficient Americans who go to work, think, and pay taxes. If these people were smarter, they would realize that the class targeting ‘The Enemy’ are those of Wealth and Birth, who fear this American ‘Enemy’, and have no fear of ‘The Poor’, as those of Wealth and Birth have guards to keep ‘The Poor’ away from their fancy apartment buildings in New York.
This is actually quite rational from the Moneyed perspective. Cloward and Piven were inspired by the Watts Riots, where ‘The Poor’ were very successful in burning down their own community.
November 1965 – barely three months after the fires of Watts had subsided – Cloward and Piven began privately circulating copies of an article they had written called “Mobilizing the Poor: How it Could Be Done.” Six months later (on May 2, 1966), it was published in The Nation, under the title, “The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty.”
It is the classic High using the Low against the Middle. It is not possible to know whether Cloward and Piven were agents of the Moneyed, or just idealistic morons.
Martian Buddy
Heh, and now McCain is bemoaning the lack of bipartisanship in the legislative process. I’d love to hear him elaborate on what concessions the GOP was willing to make to get this thing passed (and I mean actual concessions, not demands that X be stricken from the bill.)
danimal
Cloward and Piven? WTF? I like pecan pie, it’s my favorite.
GOP Welfare Queens
The GOP has a no hold barred, gloves off, batshit crazy fighting style. Light needs to be shed on hypocrisy. How about this for a nice commercial on how Batshit Crazy Overdrive doesn’t believe in “Handouts”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/bachmann-farm-subisidies_n_400608.html
SGEW
Shorter everything B.O.B. writes:
“I believe in a natural aristocracy, wherein mental and moral superiority is bred through heterosexual caucasian males; this aristocracy should be backed by the force of law, and is supported by the political philosophies espoused by historical slave societies. I believe in this because I am a heterosexual caucasian male, and I believe myself to be mentally and morally superior to others. Sadly, I am of merely average intelligence (at best), suffer from debilitating neurological disorders, and act unethically without any thought for others’ well-being. I only dimly understand the very documents I nominally worship, and have misconstrued many of their core principles through my own biased and mentally unstable perspective. Therefore, I will attempt to make up for my disabilities and confusion by writing disjointed, illogical, conspiracy-laden comments pseudonymously on a blog where every other commenter ridicules, ignores, and/or despises me. This gives me pleasure, but I do not have the capacity for self-examination to even begin to understand why.”
Zifnab
@JGabriel: You’re dealing with someone willing to openly lie and – when called on it – reply with pure jibberish, further lies, or the classic “No! You! *Giant Raspberry*”
It’s like dealing with a particularly violent and dull witted child. And it’s generally a lost cause, given that BoB is probably well into his late 50s, if he isn’t just DougJ employing the Cloward–Piven strategy in a quixotic effort to keep down board traffic by messing with us.
So don’t feel bad about refuting him. Feel bad because he’s never going to change his mind. He’s just keep bleating “Four Legs Good! Two Legs Better!” until he gets a new set of marching orders.
Ailuridae
@SGEW:
Just in time for Comment of the Year. That’s easily my favorite thing anyone besides me has ever written here.
BigSwami
@JGabriel: I have learned that it’s more like giving change(*) to one of those Portland street kids: it seems like such a good idea at the time, and before you know it you’ve been hoodwinked into feeding a terrible, self-destructive habit.
(*)”What, you don’t have a fiver or something? Forget it.”
FlipYrWhig
@Martian Buddy: @SteveinSC:
One angle I wished someone would explore… isn’t it quite likely that John Ensign hasn’t resigned because the Republicans need his vote on stuff? Because Vitter was bad enough, but Ensign’s sex-and-influence scandal is the kind of humiliating thing that typically leads to fast resignations. But his state went big for Obama, so a special election might tip the Senate to 61, and they can’t have that. I’d like someone to force the Republican Senate caucus to justify why they’re keeping Ensign around.
GReynoldsCT00
@JGabriel:
and it encourages him to keep coming around and spewing this shit
BFR
@gex:
I think Roberts & Alito will be under a lot of pressure to see to it that the bill survives intact. They represent the big business wing of the party more so than the other 3 – I’m guessing they’ll fight to make sure the mandate stays in place.
licensed to kill time
@SGEW:
Most excellent Shorter BOB , SGEW! You have captured the essence of his delusional ravings, the poor sod.
GregB
How many tears has Bart Stupe-hack shed over dead Iraqi children?
Just wondering if he’s just a sanctimonious pro-life phony.
-G
Xecky Gilchrist
“Never since the founding of the Republic, not even in the bitter sentiments preceding Civil War, was such a thing ever seen in this body.”
This is as may be wrt the Senate, but he can’t deny that governing as a whole has either been absurdly contentious or impossible since at least the Gingrichian bullshit of the 90s.
This HCR stuff is reminding me too much of the ’08 Democratic primaries. It’s dragging on far too long, being far too ridiculous, and a lot of people I’d rather think of as on my side are going full PUMA.
DrDave
Politico ran a story this morning entitled, “GOP warns of harsh climate on energy bill” that features a pic of some GOP senators with a quote from Lindsay Graham: Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) says the health care fight has worsened the odds for bipartisanship on a climate bill.
Worsened the odds? Really? Is it possible to have odds less than ZERO?
Makewi
I wonder if the Junior Senator from Rhode Island understands the role he is playing in the supposed diminished collegiality of the body or if he just lacks the self awareness that would make that knoweldge possible.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@FlipYrWhig:
This.
“Bipartisanship” is how you get low-info centrist voters. Folks who are very plugged into politics may despise low-info centrists voters, but like or not they do tend to be the swing group in close elections.
Think of the low-info electorate as being like a busy parent trying to drive the family car while two whiny, bratty kids (the two parties) slug it out in the backseat. “Mommmm! He hit me first!!” doesn’t get you justice in that situation, because the person judging wasn’t paying close enough attention to really know if it is true or not. The other side has to get caught red-handed. And to do that, you have to bait them into swinging at the wrong time, when Mom is watching.
Adrienne
blockquote>then bills will be designed to attract the 60 most liberal members of the Senate rather than appealing to the center
A distinction without a difference. In the Senate, the “center” is squarely inside the Democratic Party. There are 100 Senators meaning that +/- the middle 20 would be the “center” meaning Senators 40-60 on the scale. Once you get past the 30 or so most liberal members of the Dem Party, you hit the real “center” – McCaskill, Casey, Webb, Baucus, Mikulski, Conrad, Nelson (FL) , Lieberman*. Go into the 45+ range and you get the rat-fucking conserva-dems like Landrieu, Bayh, Ben Nelson, Lincoln and Pryor (The Walmart twins), etc. The only Republicans we can even pretend to be “center” are Snowe, Collins, who are definitely in the 60’s and *maybe* Lugar. Lugar being a Republican who I actually don’t see as acting in bad faith. The rest of them are decidedly NOT the center.
tamied
@BigSwami: Tried to pay for a bus ride for one of those kids. Also, forget it.
jibeaux
Oh, the stars have realigned. The Stuckhead and Fuckhead show is back to the Folks, B.O.B. is a Spoof show. Republicans are threatening to go from zero cooperation to less than zero cooperation. All is right with the world. God bless us, every one.
Ailuridae
@Adrienne:
This. America already has a functional center-right party in the Democrats. The alternative, especially in the Senate, is a far right party where 90% of that party would be outside the mainstream of any domestic or foreign policy conversation anywhere else in the industrialized world.
People seem to not realize this stuff. Ben Nelson for instance, would be on the far, far right of the Conservative Party in the UK
tamied
Just a general question, but why the heck did Reid get voted Majority Leader? He’s such a prime horse’s ass.
asiangrrlMN
@SGEW: Man, it’s not shorter, but it’s funnier! Thanks for this.
gex
@Citizen Alan: Noble of you, but you were clear, I misunderstood. It complicates things, but having the SC throw out the mandate means almost all of the parts that progressives had in the bill get thrown out and the parts making sure private insurance is the only game in town (right wing demand) and no pre-existing condition exclusions (what the public demands) will break things even faster. (I mean seriously – no ability to weed out based on pre-existing conditions, but no requirement for low risk people to buy into insurance? It is so obviously and predictably set up to fail.) At which point we can once again point out how this thing can’t be solved by private insurance alone, there is some sort of larger role for government.
As I say, I can hope, can’t I?
bemused
@FlipYrWhig:
Those same things occurred to me but the Dems haven’t really convinced me that they are that strategy savvy. When it appears that they are, I can’t decide if they just fell into it by accident & then it dawned on them to take advantage of it or they actually had a game plan from the start.
gex
@BFR: Ah. That kind of “strict constructionist”.
AngusTheGodOfMeat
@tamied:
Reid was voted Dem leader, which was the Minority Leader position at the time. When the Dems got the majority, he became the Majority Leader. He was Dem Whip for a few years and then succeeded Daschle as Minority Leader in 2005. He was reelected leader by all 57 voting Dems last year.
It’s very difficult to unseat these leaders unless they really screw up or break rules. I am just guessing, but I would wager that he stays in the leader role for some time, especially when he gets final passage of HCR.
tamied
@AngusTheGodOfMeat: That’s depressing. He just seems to be ineffectual.
Just Some Fuckhead
@SGEW: lolz
Shalimar
@AngusTheGodOfMeat: Assuming Reid wins re-election, which is far from a sure bet at this point and is how Reid himself took over for Daschle.
Just Some Fuckhead
@John Cole: I’ve been saying we don’t know what our other options are because we never tried them. I’ve been assured that failure was the only outcome we could expect, so take what they give us.
And I’ve said, fine, how’s that approach going to get us anywhere with financial reform or climate change?
And the reply seems to be, “Now things are different..”
*shrug*
Seebach
@Shalimar: Who’s next in line after Reid?
Autboy
For many years the Far Right has been fighting like a wounded animal to preserve some fantasy of the “original, “free” America where there is no such thing as social responsibility–there are only resources to plunder, profits to increase. Clearly they view anyone who disagrees with them as an enemy of the State. The Left persists in the foolish desire to convince the Right that the two sides can find common ground. “We’re loyal Americans too!!” The Right only wants to destroy the Left. Whatever else happens, the Left needs to stop its servile suck-up to these absolutists
Original Lee
@pj: This. A girl can dream, can’t she?
Senator Sleezehound
Because NOBODY wallows in sleeze like the GOP does.
Just hearing Lindsay Graham’s whiny ass voice on the radio made me want to take a hammer to it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/22/politics/main6009744.shtml
Quackosaur
@Seebach: Durbin is the current Majority Whip, though that doesn’t necessarily mean he would become Majority Leader if Reid were not reelected.
Chuck Butcher
What I find funny about this sort of article is that for years I’ve heard Senators and Reps bemoaning that they can no longer be social, not have drinks/dinner/etc together. I’d say the idea that it is a newsflash to them is somewhat overdone. I’d suppose a political statement.
trollhattan
bOb bleated:
This is such a perfect example of wingnuteze—replete with Random capitalization; ‘scare’ quotes; and the projection of vast powers, wealth and ill intentions upon some obscure source of our supposed malaise newly discovered on Wikipedia—that I’m having it bronzed. Golf clap.
trollhattan
@tamied
A boxer, he used to beat up Tom Delay and take his lunch money. Who’d challenge him after that?
Adrienne
@Seebach: Probably Durbin. He’s the current whip. But, I don’t know if he has the cojones necessary for the job. If Reid loses, we need someone willing to kick ass and take names. Durbin doesn’t strike me as that guy.
Adrienne
@Autboy:
I don’t know what “left” you are talking about. The real left – as in truly progressive lawmakers, party activists, the grassroots, and DFH’s like myself – have been yelling that the Right does not give two shits about common ground at the top of our lungs for weeks/months/years. The party just hasn’t been listening The only people who have persisted in the “foolish desire” are establishment Dems and other various ratfuckers. The rest of us have been saying “Fuck Em” for a while now.
Brittancus
There are thousands of pro-sovereignty, anti-illegal immigration organizations that are fighting to halt another demented AMNESTY. So if what President Obama has stated that he will approve a so-called Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill, with the approval of the Democratic Party leadership will be a devastating Armageddon. Last Tuesday, December 15, Congressman Luis V. Gutierrez introduced this proposed law, called the Comprehensive Immigration Reform for America’s Security and Prosperity Act of 2009 (CIR ASAP).More than ever before it would be to the advantage of all the Anti-AMNESTY groups to unify and mobilize every organizations such as NUMBERSUSA, FAIR, CAPSWEB, ALIPAC, AMERICAN PATROL, JUDICIAL WATCH and every opponent group to join a massive build-up against this dark foreboding issue. Most of the American population has absolutely no conception of the implication surrounding this outrageous bill. But any bill legalizing foreign nationals who have scorned our laws is unconstitutional, without THE PEOPLE’S absolute permission.
The millions of illegal people here would pay small fine of $500.00 dollars, learn English and pass a criminal background check. The law suggested stripping police officers of their federally-sanctioned (287 g) powers that detains individuals for immigration and visa violations, according to The Chicago Tribune. Sen. Harry Reid, Pelosi, Napolitano, Schumer and others know that our only true deterrent E-Verify will be obsolete? This is just for those 20 to 30 million illegal aliens and families who live within this nation borders now. Even more millions will be waiting outside the borders, ready to make the rush for US soil, before the president signs the AMNESTY (CIR ASAP) document. THAT WILL BE THE HIGHEST PINNACLE OF MADNESS, FORCED UPON THE AMERICAN WORKER. THEY WILL HAVE TO COMPETE WITH THOSE ALREADY HERE AND THOSE WHO SUDDENLY SWARM INTO AMERICA. All these destitute, unskilled people will need food, housing and welfare support to exist in our society.
In a study from the National Bureau of Economic Research, based on the Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation, analyzed the cost of immigrants based on their specific use of (means-tested) welfare entitlements (both direct and indirect), and revealed that the total immigrant receipt of benefits in–1996–came to $180 billion. Today’s costs if audited would support some foreign governments treasuries. Obama and his army of pro-illegal worker lobbyist, faith groups, unions, anti-sovereignty Caucuses, to adjoin and undermine our voting system, by organizing huge numbers who will automatically vote in favor of the Democratic party.
Either a House or Senate bill, that releases millions of foreign workers into our country, will devastate the public safety net. As it is now–California–a SANCTUARY STATE–is under constant bombardment to support uncounted numbers of foreign invaders on the health care, education and penal system. This is owing to a Sacramento Liberal Assembly, which has edged the state to near bankruptcy. Only by the interruption of multi-millions of American citizens, legal residents and congregations of anti-illegal immigration groups will America prevail. Here is the Capitol switchboard number to call 202-224-3121 because your vote is needed to stop any AMNESTY. The last 1986 Immigration bill was never aggressively enforced, that is why millions of illegal immigrants roam freely throughout America?
gwangung
@Brittancus: This brown boy sees your bet and raises.
Rick Taylor
__
Not just your every-day run-of-the-mill Armageddons, but a truly *devastating* Armageddon!
SteveinSC
@Senator Sleezehound: My dear Senator Sleezehound. That is the “Lady Lindsey” to you, South Carolina’s latest gay (but macho, you understand), Family Values, republican politician.
handy
Redundancy fail.
trollhattan
@126
How the heck do you mix in the small and large caps? I SO want to be able to do that. Nice schpam post BTW. Any discount boner pills available also, too?
Also also, “federally-sanctioned” does not get a hyphen. Too. Yer welcome.
Zifnab
WAKE UP! SHEEPLE!
Imagine what millions of new consumers would do to the US economy. The horror.
Now, if there were dozens of foreign derivative-strapped mega-banks flooding the US border… that I might object to.
Voters are undermining our Democracy by voting for Democrats!
My god this is fun.
Either / Or? I CAN HAZ SCKOOL HOWS ROK?
Any particular congressman you want us to call or… wait… was that last sentence a question?
Adrienne
@Rick Taylor:
Oh noez! Whatever shall we do?!
Jennifer
@SGEW: I think I may love you now.
Silver Owl
It’s been over 2 decades that republicans have been behaving like arseholes unless everyone capitulates to their destructive demands. The last 9 years have been in hyper mode. We are weaker nation for it too.
Glad the Dems finally noticed. I suppose I can expect some real challenge such piss poor behavior to occur in another 20 years.
Autboy
@Adrienne: i appreciate that slap in the head. the distinction is important. i will slow down next time
Lex
@SGEW:
And the sad part is that, long as that was, it probably IS shorter than everything B.O.B. writes.
Lex
As for the original subject of the post, one of the original roots of the Gingrich Revolution of ’94 was that Republicans who were too chummy with Democrats had to be replaced.
I am delighted to see that only 16 years later, the Democrats are starting to ponder in public the idea that they might want to bring just a knife to a gun fight.
Rick Taylor
__
__
I love the even handed framing here. Democrats are angry with Republicans for dragging every vote past midnight, filibustering legislation they support (such as defense appropriation) purely to stonewall and drag the debate on, using every procedural trick they can to stall the congress, and publicly praying for Democrats to be unable to make votes. Republicans are angry with Democrats for attempting to pass legislation.