Ruh Roh by John Cole| December 24, 20098:29 am| 58 CommentsThis post is in: Going GaltFacebookTweetEmailGlenzilla reads Reason so we don’t have to.
That’s a thing of beauty.
I didn’t _say_ that’s a thing of beauty. I _typed_ that’s a thing of beauty. And anyone who reports otherwise is a liar.
The Grand Panjandrum
I don’t know how to respond to this after you spent all of last night singling me out for attack. Harumph!
In the spirit of the season, I hereby abstain from commenting on any post regarding HCR. No, really. Ordinarily, I would suggest that Glen Greenwald will be the next person excoriated by Ms. Hamsher for not being “pure” enough. But, I won’t say that today, cuz it’s Festivus or something.
Going Galt sounds good, the Senate passed the damn thing. Other topics to debate today?
He reports about Reason’s biased writing in a devastating manner, and even gets in a body blow on Ezra Klein, but Glenzilla’s writing style is like fingernails over the chalkboard.
The Grand Panjandrum
I highly recommend CSPAN right now. Some of the callers are just a riot. El Cid has a great running commentary last thread.
Our One True Dear Leader of the New World Caliphate will speak shortly. You can watch it at this link.
If even a quarter of all journalists had Greenwald’s integrity, we’d be living in a democracy.
But, yeah, I could do without his rhetorical style, personally. But de gustibus and all that.
OMG, the Obamas are going to Hawaii for Christmas! Quick! Get COKIE ROBERTS!
Also we need a citizens brigade of tree-baggers to form a human chain, no, human chain-mail, around the Hawaii Birth Certificate Vault to prevent Obama from using his ACORN powers to destroy the TROOF!
@The Grand Panjandrum: Hamsher’s head just exploded. Norquist will help her pick up the pieces.
The Grand Panjandrum
@SGEW: Even when I think Glen is wrong or I don’t agree with him I love reading him. I feel the same way about Hitchens.
Interesting that he focuses on Suderman. McArdle was trying to push the incompetence of the CBO just a couple of days ago:
I tried to post a comment regarding her prior posts that relied on the CBO reports with negative projections but somehow it didn’t make it through.
The Grand Panjandrum
@El Cid: Uh oh another caller doesn’t want it shoved down her throat. Doesn’t it seem odd that teabagging is fine, but no deep throat? Hmmmmm …
@The Grand Panjandrum: They’s all talkin’ about Obama and HIS MASSIVE HUGE PACKAGE BEING RAMMED DOWN THEIR THROATS.
Check out the end of that Glenzilla post, where Glenn duly notes that the public option was super important to Ezra Klein just last summer.
And Greenwald’s not abrasive; he’s a relentless fact dredger-upper. There’s a difference…
@El Cid: It’s a little early in the morning to be slammin’ on th’ Jeebus key, isn’t it? I haven’t had my second cup of coffee yet, for goodness sake.
these same assholes probably thought it was just ducky when a war was BEING SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS!
@The Grand Panjandrum: The tea partiers will gag on the bill getting shoved down their throats, but I predict that the screamin’ and protestin’ will fade rather quickly after the bill is signed into law.
Their opposition still has an astroturf tinge to it and they really don’t seem to have many legitimate beefs with the actual legislation. They’ll find a new shiny object for their poutrage soon enough.
@SGEW: It’s easier than bolding. But okay. I won’t shove all-caps down your throats.
Riding the Roomba
For all of it’s failings, I’m glad that HCR has gotten as far as it has. Now how about watching a kitteh slappin’ a big dog around?
I don’t think so at all. In one case he was speaking about what others subjectively believe and in another he was stating what he thought the objective truth was.
You know in the Village it appears to be bad form to point out who is married to who but maybe from now on in threads of people like Drum (who I really like) stuff like this needs to be pointed out when relevant. She is married to a genuine wingnut who post on a genuine wingnut site.
So it took a kenyan whatshisname to steer the ss america.
Congrats dems and the Prez. Well done.
Hope billy boy kristol chokes on it.
@rapido: Friends don’t let friends link to McArgleBargle.
selective memory on the right?? I’m SHOCKED!!
sometimes Jesus just overtakes you, donch’a know?
… I’m working on my coffee too while digesting all this
That is not what Klein said. Learn to read English.
I thought I’d take a little heat for that after dougj’s post. I just can’t quit her.
The Grand Panjandrum
@drillfork: He is specifically NOT hammering Ezra. I would suggest a closer reading.
@The Grand Panjandrum: Interestingly, even tho’ I may, at times, disagree with Glenzilla’s policy preferences or political prognoses (never mind the prose or the prolixity!), I can’t say I’ve ever found him to be wrong about something without eventually correcting himself, publicly.
IOW, one could disagree w/ his oughts or shoulds (e.g., Holder should immediately begin an open, transparent, and politically unaccountable criminal prosecution of former White House officials for violations of Geneva and the CAT), but he’s virtually always spot-on in his determinations of what is (i.e., the Obama administration is adopting certain Bush-era legal policies in order to not prosecute former White House officials).
Well, it does make one think they’re coordinating their talking points.
GG amazing-randied Reason’s bendy crack spoon.
Yeah, the “hit” on Klein at the end is pretty weak. Ezra, in that post, is pretty clearly talking about activist progressives, not wonkish beltway types or himself. And of course, he was right – the activist progressives chose the public option as the battle line.
I guess Glenzilla couldn’t help but to try to skewer one of the few good guys writing about this issue, simply for the crime of living in the District it would seem.
EVERY DAY IS A JESUS BUTTON DAY! Thanks, BJ, for giving me a lol so early in the morning. More smudge to come.
ETA: Amazon is still my god.
Actually, It doesn’t, unless your bent on seeing that in what he says. Both are totally consist with each other (or more accurate are not inconsistent) and are at a piece with what it has appeared Ezra has believed all along (i.e., everything else he has posted). On second read, after GP’s post, I don’t even thing GG’s target is Ezra.
What accounts for the shift?
Well, for one, you’d have to be some kind of idiot to try advocate strongly for a program and then turn around and say, “Well, you know, the rest of the bill is reasonably good, so if you kill the public option, no biggie.”
For another, some activists who will remain nameless were evidently more interested in knowing that they’re important to the President and the Congressional leadership than they were in actually providing health care to the uninsured.
Glennzilla is rather devastating there. Both about Reason and the about face and demonization of Dem bill critics (not a slam at Ezra, a slam at those to whom Ezra is referring). When Glenn is on, he’s on. I really wouldn’t want to go up against him in a courtroom. Even when I don’t agree with him, he has an argumentative style and talent that I admire. Relentless and focused. IANAL but I would think that makes for much courtroom success.
umm. I was talking about suderman and mcardle. and I agree with you about gg on ezra.
Sorry! and Merry Christmas!
and here I thought we were getting on so nicely. No problem – same to you.
It really did come across as a power play, with about 30 million people being used as a game piece.
Wait, wait–does this mean Reason is NOT the place for informed, sober, non-biased political commentary? How can this be? THEIR NAME IS REASON!
Well, but that’s a given. this was like a fish/barrel thing.
No, that’s actually NOT what Glenn writes there. Did you miss the part where he mentions that Klein wasn’t saying he felt that way?
Edit: I see that several of the usual suspects beat me to it. Such is life.
Democrats in the House, Democrats in the Senate, Democrats in the White House, health care for all and all’s right in the world (for now, at least)! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Well, Happy Christmas! I know the feeling ain’t mutual, but the Hippies love you all. Peace, love and all that jazz, you know how we are.
/tokes on a mistletoe
It also made killing the PO extremely attractive for folks who had a vested interest in hippie-punching. Sadly, some Democratic Senators find it hard to resist a chance to get patchouli on their fists, either because they’re afraid of losing in Red states (Landrieu and Lincoln), because they’re half-bright quasi-wingnuts (Nelson) or because they’re vengeful little imps with broken souls (Lieberman).
Jane Hamsher poops rose buds and Markos pees Moet Chandon.
The hit on Klein is vapor. Klein said a Progressive victory would mean a strong Public Option, which is pretty unexceptionable. Klein didn’t say a decent or workable bill required a Public Option.
Put it another way, Klein was describing what, in the context of a health care bill passing, would mean the progressives won in shaping the bill. That it’s not their ideal bill doesn’t make it a loss.
Matt seems like a nice enough guy, but the minute he steps into an intellectual wading pool, he’s in over his head.
That is just an embarassment.
I lost all respect for Reason when …. well, I never had any respect for Reason to begin with. But if I ever did, I would have lost it the other week when Matt Welch wrote a piece about how France’s health care system is better than ours, but we should still support the libertarain paradise of government not being involved in health care because shut up, that’s why.
Susan of Texas
McArdle did an interview with Glenn Reynolds in which she backed the tea-baggers, without mentioning her fiance’s connection to them and Koch. Yet another reason to fight the Baby Villagers–conflicts of interest are irrelevant for them.
Yeah, when you have to parse semantics on a single word basis, you probably haven’t found a lie. Well played, Reason.
On another note, I’m also happy that Glenn points out how suddenly conservatives turned on the CBO. That does not get pointed out enough.
So let me see if I’ve got this straight: the editorial staff of Reason is intellectually dishonest?
Excuse me if I am unsurprised by this shocking revelation.
The public option was super important to a lot of people last summer. I was one of them. Then it became obvious that it couldn’t get through the Senate. Then some of those people accepted reality and focused on getting the best possible bill through the Senate.
Accepting political reality, and accepting people who accept political reality, is not part of Glenn’s feature-set. It’s part of the reason why I think Scott Horton (and, before he went to DOJ, Marty Lederman) is better at what Greenwald does than Greenwald is.
Why oh why
That would be a very serious accusation against Horton if it were true because:
1. He writes about legal matters.
2. The political reality is that Obama and Holder have decided to cover up the crimes of the Bush administration, and continue some of their most despised practices.
Thankfully, Horton has not accepted this political reality at all, and is not drinking the Obama “Looking Forward” kool-aid.
@Why oh why:
With all due respect, you have either completely misunderstood what I wrote or deliberately taken it out of context to make a non- germane point.
Because I am imbued with the holiday spirit, I will refrain from saying any of the things I am thinking about you and your behavior.
Merry Christmas. Hope Santa brings you wisdom.
@Why oh why:
It’s a slam against Horton for someone to say he likes Horton’s work better than Greenwald’s?
My brain hurts now.
It’s kind of interesting to watch the, um, intellectual synergy, that has built between suderman and the “econo”-blogger who shall not be named. It’s like reading parallel universe blogs between which absolutely nothing is different. The “CBO can’t be trusted” theme and the “counting medicare savings twice” theme are but two recent examples.