I haven’t been following this too closely, but is anyone else shocked at how unprofessional Craig James has been- he quite clearly leveraged his celebrity at ESPN into forcing Leach out at Tech. Now granted, Leach’s stubbornness most certainly was a factor, but James just seems all over this. Am I misreading this?
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The Dangerman
Haven’t been watching it it too closely, but if the reports on the actions of Leach are accurate, he well deserved to be fired.
Seems like there is a higher number of Coaches that are assholes these days (see Leach, Nick Saban, Pete Carroll); where have you gone, Frank Kush?
JerryS
Craig James (and his son, Adam) lost a whole lot of credibility. To me, an even bigger embarrassment has been how ESPN has basically acted as a mouthpiece for James and his family.
ESPN has NOT ONCE shown, on screen, the myriad of emails which, on the record, proclaim Adam James to be a lazy, spoiled, arrogant punk. The manner in which ESPN, ESPN News, and ESPN.com have ignored the Leach supporters is downright embarrassing. And for what? A College Football analyst with some NFL experience who, himself, was involved in one of the worst NCAA scandals in history? It makes no sense.
In my job, I occasionally run into ESPN talent. I’m so looking forward to the day soon in which I run into Craig James. I plan on telling him he’s an embarrassment to ESPN, and that his son is a punk.
And, John, to answer your question… No. You’re not missing anything. Craig James used his position to get a Major College coach – with a phenomenal record, given the circumstances – fired.
JerryS
The Dangerman – You have no idea what you’re talking about.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4787194
No shed. No electrical closet. Adam James was monitored the whole time.
mark
the issue should be, did James have a concussion, and if so, why on earth was Leach getting involved and confining him to a closet or shed. It doesn’t matter if James is a punk or the second coming of Jerome Bettis. Injured player, the coach gets the hell out of the diagnosis business.
JerryS
Mark –
The recommended treatment for a concussion is to stay in a cool, dark place. Read what the trainer wrote about the real time situation.
Additionally, he WAS CLEARED BY HIS DOCTORS TO RETURN TO PRACTICE, without participating in drills.
READ, for fuck’s sake.
mcd410x
I don’t know what happened in Lubbock. But if I’m ESPN I don’t let him near a microphone just because of the potential for impropriety and/or lawsuits.
James commenting on this during a game he’s televising is beyond ridiculous. If I’m Leach, I certainly include James and ESPN in any lawsuit against the university.
dr. bloor
As far as I can tell, another case of a bunch of morans with impure intentions colliding to create a media conflagration. Pass.
BTW, which Big Ten team is losing at the moment?
JerryS
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/19274638
Shame on Craig James.
Shame on ESPN.
Shame on Texas Tech.
If what Mike Leach said was true in the New York Times on Friday, then what we all thought two days ago is a mirage. Leach and other sources claim that the coach did not, in fact, mistreat Adam James. They say there was no “electrical closet” or “shed” as has been reported. They say there was no confinement. Leach is backed up by head trainer Steve Pincock and a team doctor.
Leach hasn’t spoken this candidly because he was busy suing the school. But now that it has fired him, the gloves are off. Most telling is the accusation that James leveraged his position as an ESPN analyst to get more playing time for his son.
I received two calls this week from people I trust saying the same thing. Big Daddy James had become a royal pain in the you-know-what. None of that should dismiss the assertion that Leach allegedly mistreated James’ son. But if a court ultimately rules in favor of Leach in what is sure to be an unlawful termination suit brought by Leach, James’ job could be in danger.
I thought from the beginning it was borderline unethical that friends and co-workers of James were reporting this story. It had that “railroad” smell to it from the beginning with James being portrayed as the protective parent.
There is definitely another side to this, a side that ESPN hasn’t reported until after the Times ran its story. At the least, ESPN hasn’t balanced. Just throwing this out there but where was the Worldwide Leader’s info coming from – James, his son, maybe both? That’s OK if Craig James worked for Fox. It’s not OK if he drives a story in his favor with his employer.
Where the e-mails from former and current Texas Tech players and coaches that called into question Adam James’ character? I wrote that story earlier this week and provided copies of the e-mails in a blog. It’s not like the e-mails weren’t available. A source was more than willing to share them.
With Leach firing back, Texas Tech better check its bank account and ESPN should consider firing Craig James. First, he is now as radioactive as Leach in his own profession. The rumor that James is considering a Senate run might have to be addressed. Free publicity, it would seem, for a future politician?
Also, what coach will want to talk to James in the future? Even if his son was mistreated by Leach, the allegation that has been badgering the Texas Tech staff will not go over well in the coaching profession.
As is usually the case, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but let’s look at this a different way. The fact that Leach would not “apologize” to the James family didn’t make sense from the beginning. If Adam’s treatment was so heinous, why would a simple apology make Big Daddy go away?
There are three sides of this story: Texas Tech’s, Leach’s and James’. I don’t know quite who to believe but I do know who has lost. The Phony Express, Big Daddy James.
Corner Stone
@The Dangerman:
They’ve always been assholes. Not all of ’em of course, but a sha-hooge chunk. We just never knew until years and years later – or if we found out some faction of us admired them for it.
ricky
I think there is enough hypocrisy circling all three rings of the clown circus on the High Plains to make any observation accurate.
Craig (Pay for Play) James and the Pony Bank Express killed
football at SMU (too bad it didn’t kill the Bush Library).
Tech fired a coach for mistreating players after hiring Bobby Knight to coach basketball.
Kent Hance has as much credibility as a University Chancellor as Attilla the Hun running a Peace Institute
(but even Attilla wouldn’t have hired Alberto Gonzalez).
Mike Leach the pirate fan put a kid in the brig then walked his own plank.
Lubbock, Texas even has a college. (I would have said “even exists” but for Buddy Holly and some other fine musicians it has produced.)
Everybody involved is probably paid 20X more than they are worth.
The Dangerman
@JerryS:
From my post:
Reading. It’s not just for breakfast anymore.
dr. bloor
@JerryS:
Leach got canned because of insubordination. The President and others told him to clean up his mess after the fact, and he refused. As far as the University is concerned, the antecedents are secondary. Simple, really.
Corner Stone
Hey, if he hasn’t done anything wrong then he has nothing to worry bout, amirite?
JerryS
One last point. Look it up. Mike Leach graduated football players at a higher rate than 99% of the BCS schools while at Texas Tech. In other words, he made sure his football players went to class and got a degree while also playing Division 1 football. USC, Notre Dame, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, didn’t graduate nearly as many players.
El Tiburon
No doubt Craig James should not have commented on the subject until the dust settled.
Poor judgment by James.
However you slice it, I think Leach was being railroaded out, which I guess happens all the time. The soap opera that is to follow will be fun.
Corner Stone
@dr. bloor:
I agree we need more deets – but yeah. He was called on something, whether complete horseshit or not, and he gave them the double bird. As I said in a previous thread, when the chancellor uses the word “insubordination” it’s over. That’s a straight shoutout to HR, and dismissal policies.
donovong
They have football teams in Texas?
Malron
I referenced ESPN’S shameful conduct the night of the Holiday Bowl. As Craig James helped call the game between Arizona and Nebraska, during the halftime show Mark May and Lou Holtz just ripped on Leach at the close of a one-sided report on the story that included an interview with the chancellor and a letter from a defensive tackle on the team. Both trashed Leach repeatedly. Not one person was quoted or interviewed to provide balance.
Karatist Preacher
Leach says (and others back him up) that he spent more time dealing with Craig James than all of the other parents combined. James was pissed that his son wasn’t playing more so he went around talking to administrators, professors, trustees etc. trying to dig up dirt on the coach.
If you think a grown football player would let himself get locked in a closet you’re nuts.
JerryS
Dr. Bloor –
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Leach has a clause in his contract – six of them, actually – which list the reasons which he can be fired for cause.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/michael_mccann/12/30/leach.texas.tech/
——
Was Texas Tech legally entitled to fire Leach for cause? In addition to requiring Leach to follow Texas Tech procedures and polices and to provide responsible treatment of players’ health, Leach’s contract lists the circumstances under which Texas Tech could dismiss him for cause:
1) The commission of a major NCAA violation or an excessive accumulation of secondary violations by Leach.
2) Knowingly condoning NCAA violations by any staff member under his direct control.
3) Failure to take appropriate disciplinary action against any staff member committing NCAA violations.
4) Failure to take appropriate disciplinary action against football student-athletes.
5) Indictment for a felony criminal act.
6) A misdemeanor involving moral turpitude.
——
You’ll see that Insubordination isn’t on the list.
Violet
I’d hate to be his son, Adam.
Balconesfault
I haven’t watched WVU play this year.
That is one FAST quarterback.
ricky
I know I will be accused of racism for saying this, but it is obvious white people lack the skills to perform at running back or wide receiver and when you give them the chance
(Craig James and Adam James) they just mess your program up.
dr. bloor
@JerryS:
Oh, please, are you his farking brother or something? Insubordination is always in play, even with tenured professors. Leach was a University employee, and thought he was above the rules. He wasn’t.
gwangung
Steve Largent and Fred Biletnikoff agree.
JerryS
Dr. Bloor –
Um…. No. You’re wrong. How can you have insubordination when the coach was not given, by all accounts, an opportunity to defend himself to the charges by one player and that player’s father?
Texas Tech will lose the lawsuit, and end up paying Leach much more than the 2.4 million they owe him.
And you should learn more about the facts of THIS particular case before spouting off such bullshit opinions.
Corner Stone
@ricky: Wes Welker? Steve Largent?
Paging Mr. Largent…Or Mr. Welker to the “white” phone…
ricky
@donovong:
We do indeed. Some of our better professional teams are so good they no longer feel it necessary to even be affiliated with a college. We also have the Aggies of Texas A&M, but that is a farm team and school.
John P
Leach was put on a leave of absence and would still be the coach today if he had not filed suit against the university–his employer.
Once he filed suit, the university did what most employers would do–it fired him.
If he had done nothing wrong, he ultimately would have been vindicated, and would have continued to be the coach at Texas Tech. However, when a management level employee files suit against his employer, he is begging to be fired, which is what Texas Tech did.
Corner Stone
@JerryS: You’re a damn fool if you think the word “insubordinate” was not used for a very specific purpose here.
arguingwithsignposts
@ricky:
Are you kidding me? BoB, is that you?
Srsly.
ETA: John Riggins. And, BTW, since we’re talking “skills,” isn’t that the reverse of the “skills” argument that used to be made for blacks not playing quarterback?
FlipYrWhig
If my (long-ago) experience with coaches is any indication, what happened has jack squat to do with “recommended treatment” and much more to do with “discipline” and being “tough,” i.e., acting like a dictatorial asshole whenever possible. Player wants to do something that pegs him as spoiled or wussy, coach comes up with some kind of humiliation or punishment. Player says he’s hurt, coach questions his toughness. It doesn’t matter what the player is like, even if he _is_ a spoiled wuss. The underlying issue is responding to injury concerns through a lens of football-defined “discipline,” which is _highly_ destructive. Coaches need to stop pulling macho head games.
None of which has anything to do with whether Craig James and/or ESPN have behaved appropriately. It does seem like he has used the opportunity to blow up the story, from what I can tell. But I’ve only seen it on SportsCenter, where it looks like it’s being treated as a sports-news story, one that has multiple sides and includes comments from multiple camps.
dr. bloor
@JerryS:
I would imagine the University lawyers are really looking forward to discovery here. Oh, right, Leach is a squeaky-clean, upstanding citizen with a spotless record, who is a complete and utter victim in this process. I keep forgetting, even though you keep telling us it’s so.
Besides, what the player and his father said isn’t the root of the insubordination. The university, right or wrong, told him to take specific steps to make the issue go away, and he didn’t. As I said above, the antecedents don’t matter, The University directed him to take specific steps, and he refused. That’s the insubordination; what he did to James is irrelevant.
ricky
@gwangung: @gwangung:
My daddy claimed I was named after Lance Alworth’s dad.
I guess that is better than if it was Lance Rentzel’s.
Mr Furious
@ricky: And playing the role of BoB today…
gwangung
That’s just modern “journalism”, with selective use of sources. ESPN’s coverage is very questionable here.
ricky
@arguingwithsignposts:
Is it the hangover, or do some white people totally lack a sense of humor?
Joel
A lot of noise about the NFL minor leagues.
Balconesfault
As a UT fan, I thank Texas Tech for making our annual pathway to challenging for the National Championship that much easier (playing Tech in Lubbock is a bitch). Here’s hoping that Leach’s next job is outside the Big 12.
dr. bloor
@Joel:
Are you really suggesting that NCAA football isn’t a process through which our best and brightest student-athletes have their physical and intellectual talents brought to full fruition by mentors whose only motives are to build character, strength and intellect through impartially mediated athletic competitions? I’m shocked.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig:
Have you ever met a HS football coach? Or a middle school one for that matter?
That’s what they do. Head games and macho. By the time these alpha kids get to college they don’t know how to respond if someone isn’t fucking with them or challenging their “toughness” and work ethic.
Just look at the brief spat recently regarding Big Ben and Hines Ward over BB’s concussion. This is the result of 20 years of being told to play through pain, etc etc etc.
arguingwithsignposts
@ricky:
That’s some high snark there, ricky. I can’t see your skin color through the ‘puter. And we do have a troll here who would make that kind of argument. Next time, /snark for the snark impaired. BTW, was Adam James a running back? I thought he was a lineman?
ETA: I did note the Limbaugh reference, though, as I was typing. What is up with the great white whale these days, anyway? is he still resting in that foreign hospital?
Corner Stone
@ricky: We don’t dance very well either.
Chad S
Some friends of mine who are connected to Texas Tech said Adam James only made his accusation after Leach refused to release him from his scholarship so he could transfer to SMU. Its pretty clear that the kid was exaggerating his accusations and also pretty clear that Texas Tech was looking for any reason to fire Leach(they really didn’t like that he interviewed with Auburn and didn’t want to pay him the contract they gave him to stay). Craig James has destroyed his reputation with his behavior and all the T-Tech coaches saying he was the ultimate little league dad with them.
If you want to see where James was “confined” despite the fact that the trainer said that James was full of crap with his claims, here you go:
http://mobile.doubletnation.com/2009/12/30/1225037/the-saga-of-mike-leach-something
ppcli
@ricky:
Yep. Ohio State has lost to Michigan all these years because they were messed up by starting Brian Hartline and Anthony Gonzales. Gerhart has really hurt Stanford too.
arguingwithsignposts
Wow, if you’re not watching Northwestern v. Auburn, you just missed a great catch and run.
ricky
@dr. bloor:
There are hundred of thousands of blog commenters every year. Most of us go pro in something or other and are out of sorts.
Violet
@arguingwithsignposts:
At last notice, yes. As someone commented, the most interesting part of the hospital’s statement yesterday is that they gave no indication of when he might be released.
I also saw that some doctor’s group sent him a fruit and vegetable basket and recommended he go on a vegan diet. Bwahahahaha!
Corner Stone
@Chad S:
I’ve got some friends who have never heard of TTech and they say just the opposite.
Ranger 3
@Joel:You don’t know what you’re talking about. Why don’t you try reading the post before you go spouting your bullshit.
(Ok, not really. I just wanted to join in on the fun. It kinda is a minor league, though. With hotter women and worse pay.)
Balconesfault
@arguingwithsignposts: I’ve switched over to watching LSU – Penn State. I want to see JoPa win another bowl.
Plus, they’re already playing in mud, halfway through the first quarter. How cool is that?
Oh God. Just saw ABCs computer graphics renditions of Mark Ingram and Colt McCoy in their ad for the BCS Championship game. Definitely on the wrong side of uncanny valley.
ricky
@arguingwithsignposts:
Adam is a wide receiver. His Daddy Craig was a running
back. Daddy played alongside a running back of a different color and talent level, Eric Dickerson. I really don’t know if Daddy was one of those players being paid at SMU. If he was he didn’t deserve the bucks Dickerson did.
As to your final question, I am not sure Hawaii is foreign.
I do know it is exotic. The hospital probably serves sodium free Spam.
eric k
Ricky,
I got that you were spoofing racists, apparently this site is full of people who don’t get sarcasm today, maybe the hangovers.
Ranger 3
@Corner Stone: Oh yeah… well I know a girl who is transfering to Tech next semester, and she’s a total whore.
Lots of whores go to Tech. Otherwise I don’t really have a point.
Brick Oven Bill
Heretics, all of you. Adam will do great in the NFL.
ricky
@Corner Stone:
What, are you playing BoB too? Didn’t you ever hear of Fred Astaire? Gene Kelly? Tom DeLay?
Linkmeister
@ricky: Hey! Our hospitals don’t serve anything that tastes good, just like every other hospital in the country!
Sheesh.
Ranger 3
SMU looks like they’ve finally got their program back on track, which is a very good thing. It will give rich white people in Dallas something to do on Saturday afternoons in the fall, besides coke.
It’s probably better for the James’ family that young Adam not transfer to SMU, however. June Jones would beat Craig James’ face through his ass.
Punchy
If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear JerryS is Leach’s wife.
Leach was a punk. Arrogant, mouthy punk. That shit doesn’t fly well in super-red Lubbock. Ask Coach Knight.
arguingwithsignposts
@ricky:
c.f., @Brick Oven Bill. I rest my case.
And I do agree that Dickerson was light-years ahead of James in terms of talent. I still can’t believe SMU got the death penalty for what most SEC schools did on a regular basis. They were an easy target. If only SMU had the balls to tell them to STFU and take it to court.
ricky
@Brick Oven Bill:
He will probably last a few years playing on Sunday.
That is only because many in the media are invested heavily in seeing the son of another broadcast commentator succeed.
tavella
Leach did the usual dickishness of head coaches with regards to concussions; punish and humilate the player — all the people going “confined in the dark is like, totally the optimum treatment” are idiots. While they are sitting out the recovery period, you park them on the sideline or send them home, you don’t shove them in a room and tell them they can’t sit down.
People like that are part of the reason a substantial number of NFL players end up drooling before they are sixty, people have started to notice it, the university didn’t want to be seen as contributing to that, told Leach to straighten up, he said fuck you. The university dumped him, sensibly.
The only reason it hit the papers, of course, is that James isn’t some desperate poor kid; he has prospects outside of football and has no intention of ending up brain damaged just so that some coach can look tough, and his father agrees with him. Good for him.
Jade Jordan
Craig James shared time with Eric Dickerson the best back of his time at SMU. Dickerson was all world and Craig James was a hack.
Due to Texas being Texas the fans demanded that Craig the campus politician play and Dickerson could not complain because he was a highly paid college player and his family was being well cared for.
He has been an a** his whole talent lite life.
Leach will win and win big and James will lose because no one wants a toxic player on their team.
The spoiled little rich boy has been exposed.
Punchy
Rocky Bleier just told you to STFU.
ricky
@Punchy:
Have you ever been to Lubbock? Shit does not fly in Lubbock, tortillas do. At least at football games.
Shit is what they keep in Lubbock’s skyscrapers. Only they are called Elevators there, for some reason.
Ranger 3
@Jade Jordan: I remember seeing Craig James take on the ’85 Bears in the Super Bowl.
He didn’t fare well.
ricky
@Ranger 3:
Most would not have to transfer in to Tech if they had just listed their vocation as “high school community service” when they originally applied for admission.
Punchy
One more comment:
You guys HAVE to turn on the PSU/LSU game. Holy fucking shit on a coffee table! I’ve never, ever, ever seen a field so fucked up (besides that Steelers/Miami game a coupla years back). Wow, what a complete disaster. More divots than Lindsey Lohan’s thighs.
Corner Stone
@ricky:
God no. There’s no way I’m stepping on DougJ’s turf after he wanted to ban me that one time.
Kick him in the nuts? Sure.
But bite on his spoof action? No way.
Some of us crackers have a sense of humor – hence my quotation marks in the “white” phone gag upthread.
I’m down with you ricky! Some of my best friends are black!
Corner Stone
@Punchy: They are chewing that damn field up. That guy returning a punt went to make a cut and a solid foot long piece of turf popped right the hell up.
Corner Stone
@Ranger 3:
Hahahahaha!! June Jones is a little bitch. He’s spent too many years coaching football outside the United States to really be a tough guy anymore.
Joey Maloney
I’m sure I would find this fascinating if I had any idea what you were all talking about.
Oh wait, it’s something to do with college athletics. No I wouldn’t.
Happy New Year to all.
Punchy
@Corner Stone: Cap 1 is Whorelando, right? No pro teams to worry about….so why wasn’t the field properly laid/protected?
This is damn comical. Course, as an Iowa alum, I have no dog in the fight, but my dad (LSU) is certainly cussing out Groundskeeper Willie.
Corner Stone
@tavella:
I’ll repeat just for the dufii here – I need more deets.
But if my son came to me and told me something had happened I would listen to him. At this point I would know my son’s desire/work ethic, and judge what next steps to take. Leach fucked himself by being ignorant, at least as far as what’s being reported so far. I guess we’ll see.
ricky
@Corner Stone:
Football outside the United States is called soccer.
And BTW, don’t get down with me. My best black friends are relatives. Actually I have only relatives. No friends.
Corner Stone
@Punchy: This is just a disgusting game that doesn’t really showcase either team’s speed and talent. Nasty shiz going on here.
Corner Stone
@ricky:
We figured as much.
Ranger 3
@ricky: Yeah, it’s such a waste. The DFW area loses thousands of whores every year to Tech alone. Many of them never return, those that do aren’t hot anymore after TTU is done with them.
It’s a tragedy, but no way am I living in fucking Lubbock. Definitely not worth it. I get depressed when my flight to Vegas connects through that shithole.
ricky
@Punchy:
They played a number of minor league championships there recently (AKA Florida High School Playoffs.) That was the field where the announcers said Miami was performing poorly because it was too cold.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
I don’t think Tech sends Leach packing unless they’re certain they have a better than marginal case for the courts. Discovery will be very very interesting for both sides.
@Joey Maloney: That’s nice. Do you want a cookie?
burnspbesq
@JerryS:
Why are you in the tank for Mike Leach? What’s your interest in the matter? If you expect anyone to take you seriously, spill it.
And FWIW, as a parent I reject absolutely any suggestion that Craig James acted inappropriately in looking into whether his son’s treatment was being handled properly. The fact that his celebrity may have given him a level of access that other parents might not have had doesn’t speak poorly of James – instead, it speaks poorly of a system in which other parent’s don’t have that same level of access.
My kid is a dancer, and will probably major in dance when he goes on to college. If he injures an ankle or a shoulder, and is pressured to get back in the studio before he is medically ready, you had best believe that I will bring 18 different kinds of hell down on the professors who are doing the pressuring. That’s my kid’s life you’re trifling with, and NOBODY gets to do that.
Face
@Punchy: Capital One treats their bowl game much like they treat their customers. Not at all surprised the game and field is a laughingstock.
Michael D.
@Punchy:
What a mess, huh? I’m surprised we haven’t seen a dozen ankle injuries already!
Joey Maloney
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Thanks for offering, but I baked a crapload of chocolate-oatmeal-raisin cookies yesterday. I’m fresh out of blowjobs, though.
Ranger 3
Wow. Just wow. That is one fucked up field. Unreal. Have I seen a more fucked up field? Soldier Field or Candlestick back in the day, maybe. Hard to say, I didn’t have the HD 40″ teevee back then. But it’s only the 2nd Quarter.
Sully is gonna demand that Obama fire the Secretary of the Interior, of course. Accountability and all that.
Michael D.
Oh, and while I do enjoy the game, FAR, FAR, FAR too much importance is placed on college football in the US.
FAR too much.
American colleges would give up entire academic programs before they’d touch their football teams.
J. Michael Neal
I’m not sure it’s possible to dislike every party to a dispute more than I do here. I can’t stand Texas Tech and their Bobbky Knight and Alberto Gonzales hiring ways. Mike Leach is the complete jackass that declared that his players weren’t allowed to have Facebook accounts because he thought the publicizing the secrets of team meetings endangered national security or something. They’re playing Michigan State, and it’s really tough for this kid from Ann Arbor to root for Sparty.
Northwestern was down by 14 with five minutes to play. They scored, but couldn’t recover the onside kick with 2:30 to go. They just tied it up.
Edit: And then recovered a fumble on the ensuing kickoff.
My fucking Goophers, though, looked pathetic last night.
burnspbesq
@ricky:
Imagine my surprise.
Corner Stone
@Joey Maloney:
Fuck, me too.
*test from Firefox.
arguingwithsignposts
Wow, tie game NW vs. Auburn, late TD and a 2-point conversion!
ETA: And NW recovers a fumble on the kickoff!
Corner Stone
@Michael D.: *Ok, I’m going to try jacking with you in the new year and see if I have more success than in 2009.
Heretic!
AhabTRuler
Yes, because no one would ever exert undue pressure on behalf of their children. In fact, parents are often the most rational and balanced of people, weighing the relative merits of any situation before commenting or asserting privilege.
@J. Michael Neal:
Strangely enough, that’s how I feel about nine out of ten news stories, especially if one of the parties involved is society.
<Rocky Horror>Fuck society</Rocky Horror>
Dork
NU about to complete the most amazing comeback I’ve seen in years.
arguingwithsignposts
@Michael D.:
On this we can agree. I’d rather have minor league NFL teams.
Michael D.
Joe Paterno would have made more money on The Sopranos.
Ranger 3
@Michael D.:
What, are you some kind of homo?
/snark
Michael D.
By the way everyone, Happy New Year!
Just 364 more days till the end of the decade!
arguingwithsignposts
Dammit! Demos missed the FG! Now to OT.
Corner Stone
@AhabTRuler:
Whoooosh!
Little League moms and dads have all the same concerns, just no one ever fucking hears about it at a major program.
It’s bullshit to think this doesn’t happen to some poor sad sack every year. And we’ll never know. But maybe now we will.
Ranger 3
@Michael D.: No, no. That’s incorrect.
That would only be the case if we referred to decades in the same way that we refer to centuries. But we don’t. We say 20th Century A.D. or 21st Century A.D. but we don’t say 201st Decade A.D. or 202nd Decade A.D. The A.D. isn’t included or even implied. We just say 80’s or 90’s or 20’s or oughts. The key is the third digit in the year, nothing more. Otherwise the only requirement for it being a decade is that it be a ten year period of time, which 1 January 2000 to 1 January 2010 clearly is.
GEEK FAIL!
Michael D.
@Ranger 3: So, you’re saying that the first decade, AD, was only 9 years then? from 1AD to 9AD?
AhabTRuler
@Ranger 3:
Pedant FAIL!
The consensus is that there is no consensus.
ricky
@Michael D.:
So are you alleging that the birth of the baby Jesus was the top story of the decade before he was born?
arguingwithsignposts
Dammit! Auburn wins on a fumble. That NW win would have been a great story. Instead, it’s more SEC chest-thumping.
Or maybe not. (not the SEC-chest-thumping part, that’s a given)
Corner Stone
BTW people – Chevelle rocks out with their kaks out.
End.
Ranger 3
@Michael D.: No. Pay attention. The 1st decade A.D. would have been from 1 A.D. to 11 A.D. But chronology doesn’t require that you use the year 1 A.D. as a reference, and when it comes to decades we don’t.
We use 1 A.D. as a reference point for centuries, but not for decades, and that’s fine. A decade is just 10 years, it could be any ten years. We choose to designate decades from xxx0 to xx10, drawing the name of each decade from the third digit in the number. Yes, we do borrow a year from the 20th century to make up the oughts, but’s that’s ok. Our credit is good. We’ll just have to pay it back in the 22nd century.
Hopefully some of us will still be around to make good on our debt.
arguingwithsignposts
Wow, this game is crazy. A roughing the kicker penalty half-the-distance to keep the game from being won by Auburn.
J. Michael Neal
Auburn has won this game three times based upon the call on the field, but had two overturned on replay and one by a roughing the kicker penalty on a missed field goal in OT.
Ranger 3
@AhabTRuler: Never match wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line.
Dork
@arguingwithsignposts: It aint done yet. Guy misses a THIRD consecutive kick, and saved by another penalty. NU just cant be killed off.
Corner Stone
@Ranger 3:
I don’t know who. Only Midnight Marauder is under 30 on this damn blog.
arguingwithsignposts
@Dork: Well, it’s over now. let the SEC chest-thumping begin. Geez. I would have loved to have seen an NW win, and I don’t have a dog in this hunt.
AhabTRuler
@Corner Stone: Wait, what? I’m confused. Are you saying that kids are pressured into doing things the shouldn’t or wouldn’t by societal pressures? Or are you arguing that parents are judicious and impartial in their efforts in defending the perceived interests of their children?
No matter how you slice it, I think its a bit disingenuous for everyone to get religion on their concerns for the health of their football playing children . If you want to protect your child’s health, especially with regard to head, neck, and spine injuries, don’t let them play football in the first place. Encourage them to take up basketball, cross-country, lacrosse, or soccer. Sure, they might blow out a knee or ankle at some point, especially if they pursue it at the collegiate level, but we can fix that pretty easily. Have you ever tried sewing a brain back together?
Linkmeister
Wow. That NWU – Auburn game was certainly entertaining.
Ranger 3
@Corner Stone: I don’t know, but I pretty sure General Winfield Stuck is a vampire.
peach flavored shampoo
@Ranger 3: It would be irresponsible not to irresponsibly speculate on such irresponsibility.
Corner Stone
@AhabTRuler: Obviously you are confused.
Colleges et al across the nation treat their kids like cattle. The head coaches are sadistic assholes that have had a lifetime of treating alpha athletes as punks/pussies/wimps, and the rest as cast-off fodder.
I’m saying this similar situation happens across the nation yet we don’t hear much about Johnny Joe getting concussed and wondering if he should play or practice. We are hearing about the James boy because of connections.
And don’t say some stupid shit like, “Don’t play football.”
How about we agree to let kids compete as they wish, but respect their health and not denigrate them when they have an issue?
Probably too much for you to deal with.
MattR
@burnspbesq: I am beyond pissed that I was not paying attention when this thread first popped up. I have been waiting to have a conversation about this with some (semi) reasonable people. And now I missed all the good stuff and am not going back to catch up.
But I think your comment sums it up pretty well. I cannot be upset at Craig James for being a protective (maybe even overprotective) father, especially given all the recent news about concussions and football players.
From what I can tell, Leach’s downfall was not how he treated Adam James. That probably would not have even earned him a reprimand if he had been willing to say it might not have been the brightest thing. The real problem was that he was not gonna allow his bosses to supervise the way he ran his team. And that is a pretty good reason to be fired from any job.
Corner Stone
@Ranger 3: He’s too epically stupid to survive more than one natural lifetime.
In fact, if he makes it to retirement I’ll be colored shocked.
How that POS finds his shoes most days surprises me.
Crusty Dem
John, as a parent, if you have Leach and his assistant coaches bad mouthing your son, you do not sit still and allow it to pass when you’re holding the big megaphone. That said, ESPN should have taken the megaphone away from James, he shouldn’t be talking on their network about their product.
That anyone would allow this coach OR this administration to account for the well being of their child is completely beyond me.
Tokyokie
The immediate act of insubordination that Tech is citing as cause for firing Leach is that he declined to agree to a new set of intrusive guidelines for dealing with injured players. In other words, a significant and unilateral remaking of the employee contract. Good luck with that in court, Tech.
Corner Stone
@Tokyokie:
Yeah, right. Good luck with that defense.
“They’uns tried to stop me from fucking with them’uns what had the head batterings!”
Shit.
Dude’s done and anyone who has ever dealt with a Fortune 200 Company knows he’s fucked.
He’ll get paid a little but he isn’t going to “win” this thing.
Corner Stone
Has no one here ever been employed? Fuck me.
MattR
@Corner Stone:
I was, but then I started commenting here and I got fired ;)
Andy K
@Ranger 3:
There were eleven years in a decade back in Jesus times?
Tim (The Oher One)
Who wins in a “douche-off” ? Craig James or Bob Davie ?
Oh and Happy New Year to all the Juicers.
AhabTRuler
@Corner Stone: Do you really think that collegiate sports is about kids having fun (w00t! Intramural Ultimate Frisbee)?
Furthermore, I am not saying “Don’t play football,” I am saying “Don’t play football and be surprised that the culture is a little fucked up.” It’s not like concussions are the only unhealthy aspect of the football experience.
FWIW, I would discourage a child from pursuing ballet or gymnastics as a profession, too. Better to take up pastimes like fly-fishing, marijuana cultivation, or investment banking (but not golf, that Tiger Woods is a bad influence).
@Tim (The Oher One):
I don’t even want to think about what a literal interpretation of that phrase would imply.
Andy K
@Crusty Dem:
My problem here is that this looks, objectively, like a case of the first generation spoiled asshole protecting the second generation spoiled asshole.
Corner Stone
@AhabTRuler: Listen. I love you. I don’t wanna fight.
Well, that’s a lie. I do wanna fight just not with you.
And no, I don’t think college sports is about fun. It’s about money. And that’s why the sadistic assholes need to be publicly checked when we can. Mr. James can check some shit right now.
Whether it happened the way it’s reported we will all find out one day I hope. But I can guarantee that kids left, right and middle have all come out worse for the wear because some sadistic asshole told them to get back in the game and not let their team down.
Corner Stone
@MattR: I don’t think it was the BJ that got you. It couldn’t stop Clinton and I doubt it would’ve stopped you.
AhabTRuler
@Corner Stone:
Hey, you can’t talk about my father that way, he did it because he loved me.
Yutsano
College football is a massive revenue generator. These coaches get paid to keep the alumni taps flowing. Anything that threatens that revenue stream is excised as quickly as possible. The university is thinking beyond the immediate ramifications. If Leach can mistreat (not getting into the details of whether James was mistreated right now) a player, regardless if that’s true, suddenly recruits start looking at their other offers, performance of the future teams comes into jeopardy, and the university reacts accordingly. Football is football but business is business, and this was a pure business decision by Texas Tech. Not that they seem to mind their image taking hits, hiring Gonzo and all.
MattR
@Corner Stone: Wow. No one has ever mentioned me and Clinton in the same sentence before. I’m gonna have to go call my mom,
BTW, I would have been a lot less pissed if it was a Clinton BJ.
Corner Stone
@AhabTRuler:
My dad was always the “Assistant Coach” who actually coached the kids up. He left being the sadistic asshole to my best friends’ dad.
That dude one time got in a fist fight when he had a broken arm. The arm was in a cast. And he basically started strokin down with some dude who said something to him after a game.
So, yeah. I know a thing or three about sadistic asshole coaches.
Corner Stone
@MattR: Your mom already loves you kid. Tell her you love her.
calling all toasters
Apparently the translation of Texas Tech’s Latin motto reads “Don’t Piss Off the Powerful.”
Molly
@MattR:
Married to a coach in Texas…who is nothing like the ones described here, or I’d have divorced him a long time ago. :)
I disagree with this, from experience. A coach, whether high school or college, always has to deal with parents and boosters putting pressure on them to play a kid. Administrators will get involved in it…in high school, because they don’t want to deal with a pissed-off parent, in college, because of the money involved. Coaches fight for their autonomy not because they want to be free to run the kids into the ground, but because they do not want to have to constantly be fighting that battle.
Football coaches tend to be the worst when it comes to treatment of players; husband is basketball, so we watch it from the outside. Different mentality. When he was coaching high school, one of his basketball players who went to play for Bobby Bowden died after practice one day; he’d been denied water. Kid was like a son to us. So, I don’t support the idea that coaches should be able to do whatever they want, but I do understand the fight.
Ranger 3
@Andy K: Texas Tech is a conservative institution, and like so many other conservative institutions, it is really only good at producing slutty white girls.
Which is awesome.
Ben
I am a Longhorn fan and spend a lot of time with Big 12 people… Leach is the biggest douchebag drunk in college football. Forget what James and his son “might” have done. Leach has zero social intelligence and zero friends in the Tech administration. Lots of skeletons.
Downpuppy
Leach has a fantastic You tube collection
Pirates, drive ins, fat little girlfriends – the hits just keep coming
Ranger 3
@Andy K: 1 Jan 1 A.D. to 1 Jan 11 A.D. is 10 years.
More Geek Fail.
Stop trying to be clever. You’re not good at it.
NobodySpecial
Now wait one minute.
I understand and agree that Eric Dickerson > Craig James.
But James was not a scrub. Scrubs don’t run for 1200 yards in a season where they don’t start all the games.
Like it or not, James was a major reason the guys in the pink uniforms even GOT to the Super Bowl to begin with.
And I’d argue, his kid or not, that a former NFL running back would be a little bit more familiar with concussions and their aftereffects than the normal football parent. Certainly more than Mike Leach, who I can’t determine ever played a down of football at any level. Evidently the closest he got was benchwarmer in high school.
Ranger 3
@Downpuppy:
From what I’ve seen of the guy I wouldn’t be suprised if he walked in on Chris Hansen’s film crew butt ass naked and carrying a six pack of Mike’s Hard Lemonade.
He’s kind of got that vibe to him, ya know?
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
The list of football players who don’t go through something like this in their football careers is much, much shorter than the list of those who do.
And as for the concerns as to whether the concussion was being treated properly, well, first let’s talk about how to mistreat a concussion; by playing. There really is no treatment for a concussion other than chilling out for a few days/weeks. Was the staff negligent in monitoring for neurological symptoms? I haven’t read anything suggesting that. So as far as the concussion goes, there is nothing in any of the stories I’ve read suggesting the team did anything wrong, obviously there may be damning information I haven’t run across.
So that leaves us with the player maybe being singled out for humiliation. Well, ritual humiliation is as much a part of football as dry heaves and cute girls in short skirts. If what Leach did (again with the caveat that I’m only going by what’s been reported in the few stories I’ve read) is a firing offense you might as well fire all of FBS.
I have no doubt that Leach is a grade A prick, but any major college football program is a petty dictatorship with a little Saddam at the top. Leach was coaching there because the school wanted a highly motivated asshole leading a winning program. If the school didn’t want that they shouldn’t have signed the contract in the first place. So fuck the school.
This Capital One Bowl is kind of painful to watch, isn’t it. I give PSU credit for being a good slop team, but I can’t help feeling that under normal conditions LSU would be about four TDs ahead right now.
Andy K
@Ranger 3:
No, 1 Jan., 1 AD to 31 Dec., 10 AD is ten FULL years. If you stretch it to 1 Jan. 1, 2011, you have gone a day beyond ten years.
That’s why we call 1 Jan. of any year NEW YEAR’S Day.
MattR
@Molly: I definitely understand the problem with boosters, parents, school officials, etc. and wanting the autonomy so they don’t have to deal with that BS. But the school still has to be able to set some minimum set of guidelines for the program. From what I have read, the university wanted him to agree to some pretty basic standards regarding the treatment of injuries/injured players. Stuff that, like allowing players access to water, is so obvious that it is almost surprising that it need to be written down.
eric k
J Michael,
At least the calls were correct though.
If it weren’t for replay Auburn would have won on that fumble call in OT, he was clearly down so Northwestern would have had a legit beef.
The roughing the kicker was pretty blatant too. Pretty low class for the Auburn fans to boo while they were helping the kicker off the field, sheesh the guy almost had a Theisman on his leg.
I understand why NW faked the kick, the freshman kicker should be fine on the chippie, but the way they were playing they probably didn’t have a chance in another OT, but it was pretty obvious it was coming, probably better off just going for it on 4th down with the regular offense.
MattR
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.): I think the problem the school had is that it could be interpreted that the humiliation was for not being able to tough out a concussion which could lead future players to get pressured back onto the field before they should. I do not think it was a firing offense and I am not sure the school does either. It seems more like the trigger to a long simmering feud that ended with both sides trying to mark their territory, so to speak.
Andy K
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
I dunno…From what I’ve seen of Penn State this year, this is a pretty typical game for them: Stalwart defense, especially from the front seven, and spotty offense.
ricky
@calling all toasters:
No, at Tech the dead do not read languages, so their motto is in English.
It reads: Unlike Frisbees, tortillas have no lips. Throw just as good. Taste better, too.
Shalimar
I’m not sure about the Leach/Tech saga except that it seems like everyone involved is a complete jackass. That said, since Leach supposedly has the team’s doctor saying that what was done to punish James wouldn’t have caused any additional health repercussions, it seems like the burden shifts to the university to show there was any wrongdoing at all. Coaches discipline their players in many creative ways and the only unusual thing about this incident is the concussion, which according to Leach’s expert isn’t relevant.
Yutsano
@ricky: Heh. That just reminded me of when I was watching Texas – A & M with my dad this last year. He was yelling at the TV when A & M would score, “ONE KISS! ONE KISS DAMMIT!!” They were messing up tradition all over the place. It was hilarious.
Andy K
@Shalimar:
FIFY
MattR
@Shalimar: Slapping a player doesn’t have any health repercussions either.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Possibly, but from what I’ve read the team acted entirely appropriately regarding the concussion. Did the coach call James a big pussy for not toughing it out? I haven’t read such a thing. I’m afraid the mere act of sending a player with a headache into an isolated, quiet place is exactly the right thing to do, unless there’s more to it.
Yes, that’s in line with some things I’ve read.
calling all toasters
@ricky: That is awesome. I have a newfound respect for the Red Raiders.
Crusty Dem
@Andy K:
I think everyone involved is a useless sack of shit, including University administration. I think Leach’s firing offense was not the incident (which was only under investigation), but his batshit crazy response, followed by badmouthing everyone involved (and getting assistants to call James a spoiled brat is really poor form, whether true or false). Even if he’s being railroaded, his behavior is piss poor, and I find it very striking that multiple players have stood up and said it was time for Leach to go (particularly when other coaches and coordinators might be loyal to Leach)..
Crusty Dem
@Andy K:
I think everyone involved is a useless sack of shit, including University administration. I think Leach’s firing offense was not the incident (which was only under investigation), but his batshit crazy response, followed by badmouthing everyone involved (and getting assistants to call James a spoiled brat is really poor form, whether true or false). Even if he’s being railroaded, his behavior is piss poor, and I find it very striking that multiple players have stood up and said it was time for Leach to go (particularly when other coaches and coordinators might be loyal to Leach)..
Corner Stone
@Shalimar:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!
Molly
@MattR:
Absolutely. I just have seen coaches blow under pressure, dig their heels in, and say NO MORE. Which is what I think Leach did. If Craig James was truly putting pressure on him to play his son, going to administrators, working the boosters, I can see how it finally built up until it blew and he told his administrators to f**k off.
I have no idea what really happened. Upthread, Ben at 139 said Leach has little respect from anyone. That is correct. He’s not beloved, “contempt” is the word I think of. But, coaches know what will get them fired. Losing being the biggest factor. :) I will guarantee he knew he had crossed the line, no matter what he might say in public. They all know.
rs
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.): Bruce, that was better than 99% of the sport commentary I read in newspapers or on the internet.
Dave Zirin writes the other 1%.
Common Sense
Leach never quite fit in Lubbock. He’s a weird cat. Never played collegiate football and got his law degree from Pepperdine after going to BYU. He didn’t grow up in Texas. Was born in Cali and grew up there and Wyoming. I think he’s going to be very successful somewhere, probably Pac 10.
I think Tech consigned themselves to duking it out with Baylor for the bottom of the Big 12. What coach is going to want to come there now?
PTirebiter
We get a lot of local Tech coverage here in Dallas, and Leach has been an accident waiting to happen for awhile now. The James saga was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back. Each time the school tried to rein him, Leach mooned them pretty publicly. He handed them the sword to break his contract. Privately, his players are saying good riddance.
FlipYrWhig
Part of the problem is that there has been a lot of consciousness-raising about concussions and head injuries lately, which seems to be causing faultlines in the “walk it off” mentality of coaches and players alike. Here you have the university saying “Coach, you don’t fuck around with concussions,” and the coach saying, “You hired me to do a job, so let me do my job.” He dug in because football programs have long been like fiefdoms where Coach Is Lord, and just about every coach on that level seems like a raving egomaniac. I’m sure he didn’t like dealing with a noodge of a parent who was himself a big-time college football star, and doesn’t want to see him secure anything that could be construed as special treatment for his kid, but a concussion is totally the wrong situation to start throwing coachly weight around and cooking up petty humiliations, because concussions are being taken very seriously now.
Thlayli
Oregon’s uniforms are butt-ugly. Gee, what a shock.
***
Seems obvious to me the the Tech administration was looking for an excuse to shitcan Leach, and they jumped on the James family as that excuse.
***
The most amusing thing to me about all this is the suggestion that Craig James killed the SMU program all by himself.
Michael
I’m thinking that the other players may just leave baby James beaten and mumbling in a dumpster as a bit of extra training.
Corner Stone
@Thlayli:
They just re-signed him in Feb I think. So obviously they thought he could be there a while.
Leach just didn’t do himself any favors at all. With the people who sign his paychecks.
What’s that joke? Shaq is “rich”, but the guy who signs his check is “wealthy”.
Or some such. Point being, Leach ain’t Jeebus II.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
Thlayli:
What people seem to have missed, and which I don’t know has been addressed up thread, is that Texas Tech was due to pay Leach an $800,000 bonus on Thursday(yesterday) if he was still the coach. People seem to forget the contentious negotiations he and the school had earlier this year over a contract extension. He’s the most successful coach Texas Tech has ever had, by far. Craig James is an idiot. He should thank his lucky stars every day for Eric Dickerson. Otherwise, all he ever would have been is a third-rate John Cappelletti.
Molly
@Thlayli:
What’s with the tobacco leaves on their shoulders?
MattR
@Thlayli:
These are ugly, but I like some of the different combos the players come up with
@Molly: Not sure what exactly you are looking at. Top of the shoulder pads? Or that white thing on the front right shoulder? I think the latter is a Rose Bowl patch.
Yutsano
@Molly: They’re supposedly wings. Nike didn’t really match their uber design skills with the Oregon unis this year.
eric k
Molly,
I think those are supposed to be feathers, get it duck wings.
Given the options these aren’t bad by Oregon standards. I think out of the thousands of combos I’ve seen from them in the last few years there are only 1 or 2 that are actually decent looking.
fauxpopuli
@JerryS:
Be a bit more of an overbearing ass about this huh? “No shed.” you say. Alright. Take your own advice, read this short article, look at this video. Why don’t you tell me what you call a small wood structure that holds landscaping equipment?
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/12/30/leachs-lawyer-takes-camera-inside-the-shed-and-closet/
Whether Craig James is a hoverer who is abusing his position at ESPN is irrelevant. Whether Adam James is an arrogant primadonna is irrelevant. If the kid wasn’t cleared then Leach’s action was punitive and wholly irresponsible. If he was then it’s a different story though still a bit disturbing (not allowing him to stand?) — and if he was cleared what’s with Leach’s initial claim that it was done for medical reasons?
At this point you don’t know any better than any other outside observer who has read the news stories. Do you really think it’s a coincidence that the whole “hovering abuser of position / arrogant primadonna” angle you’re pushing conforms exactly to the Leach camp’s spin? There are two sides in this story and both of them are in a PR fight, so unless you want to confirm the speculation that you are indeed Leach’s wife spare the holier-than-thou attitude eh?
Crusty Dem
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
I thought everyone knew about the payment he was due. Of course, wouldn’t knowing you were about to get a check for $800k result in you not acting like an asshole when you’re accused of something? The guy has absolutely no control over his mouth (no surprise to anyone who watches Sportscenter).
Dr. Squid
@Balconesfault:
If you wanted easy, you wouldn’t have blown up the Southwest Conference for the big payday of the Mediocre 12.
Dr. Squid
@Thlayli:
I was actually disappointed. I wanted to see day-glo yellow jerseys and pants with the hunter green helmet for maximum distraction against the stinking Luckeyes. The kind that will make me call me family to say, “Holy crap will you look at that?”
Instead they’re just ordinary clashy. Blah.
Update: My older brother attended SMU for his first two years and overlapped with Dickerjames. The violations that got the program killed were actually reported by a Texas judge and Longhorn booster. Makes me think that the whole thing was done by UT to get back at another program for daring to win the Cotton Bowl without their approval. The rest is history – the entire SWC got killed as a result
Dr. Squid
@Thlayli: @Common Sense:
Leach’s old boss Hal Mumme is just down the road in Abilene, where he quadrupled his team’s win total in one season over the previous 2 seasons (from 1-19 to 4-6). You think he wouldn’t come back to D-I if they asked?
Bob In Pacifica
If it’s how it was reported then Leach is jerk and should be fired. You don’t punish player by treating him badly or holding him up for scorn if he has an injury.
If it’s different then I’ll change my opinion. Unless it’s not different enough from the media reports. Then I won’t change my mind.
Craig James? Hey, it’s his kid. And his employer obviously wants him to talk about it. And he talks for a living.
In the grand scheme of things, John, I think your first instinct, not to pay much attention to it, was correct.
Demo Woman
@Dr. Squid: SMU was in the process of cleaning up its program. The AD director was my neighbor and his wife and I were involved in various programs together at the elementary school together. He had turned down a job with Ohio State the previous year. Obviously, his career was killed along with the program.
Texas A & M avoided the death penalty because the powers that be realized what happened to the entire conference.
I just listened to Lynch’s and Craig James’ interview online at ESPN. The problem with the entire situation is Adam James might have been embarrassed but his health was not in danger. Lynch called Adam into his office and played messages his dad left about Adam not playing enough. The choice was call off his dad or the entire team heard the messages. A commenter mentioned that Adam James had left the baseball team already over playing time.
Scott
Very, very late to the conversation — but I’m a former Lubbockite with tons of contacts back in town.
The consensus I’m hearing is that the James situation was just a convenient excuse that Chancellor Kent Hance and A.D. Gerald Myers used to give Leach the boot. The Dallas Morning News has a bunch of e-mails between Hance and a Dallas-area booster that make it clear that this was being cooked up waaaaay back last year.
All that mattered to Hance and Myers was getting Leach gone before the end of the year, so they wouldn’t have to pay him the $800K bonus in his contract.
No one’s particularly sure why Leach and Myers have it in for Leach so bad — it certainly stems from prior to the contract negotiations last year.
I expect that Leach will sue the university and will get a pretty nice settlement out of it. The DMN’s e-mails and the nonexistent James investigation are pretty damning. I expect Leach will get hired by another university in a year or two. I expect Myers will announce his retirement soon. I hope Hance will be fired, but I’m not holding my breath.
I expect the university will lose a lot of money — not just from the lawsuit, but from loss of football revenue, since a lot of season ticket holders have already decided not to renew. The still-not-quite-refurbished football stadium will be a lot emptier next season, and Tech will return to its traditional 6-6 season (or 5-7 or 4-8).
I’m very curious whether Myers or Hance will attend the bowl game — I’m betting they’ll skip. I also suspect they’ll take the first two months of the next semester off for vacation, too, just to avoid the plenty-ticked-off students, alumni, and locals…
Corner Stone
@Scott:
Before Feb 2009? Then why re-sign him? Why agree to a bonus possibility?
This is silly conspiracy bullshit. Dude threw a hissy to his bosses and got called on it.
Dr. Squid
@Corner Stone:
These are the people that hired Alberto Gonzales. Planning for the future isn’t exactly their strong suit.
General Winfield Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Taking shots at people not on a thread again, I see. With yer buddy Ranger 3. My little Huckleberries, the both of ya’s/:-)
drkrick
I remember that game. It was ugly. What I don’t remember is the Super Bowl Dickerson helped lead one of his teams to. James may be a classic little league dad, but don’t pretend he wasn’t an accomplished player in his time.
Yutsano
@General Winfield Stuck: Ahh it’s a new year. Let’s let all the old bullshit go and start anew.
General Winfield Stuck
@Yutsano:
LOL, I be all smiles today.:)
Yutsano
@General Winfield Stuck: Lots of puppeh kisses will do that. I should go visit my parents and get me some border collie wuv.
Seanly
@Face:
The LSU/Penn State game was the 3rd game on that field in a week. High school playoffs tore up the field, it was re-sodded for the Champs Sports Bowl on Tuesday.
Desert Rat
@Corner Stone:
There were actually more of these assholes in the old days. The difference is, there are very few kids willing to play for assholes like Leach, Mangino, etc. without someone bitching up a storm about being mistreated by a coach (real or imagined).
Bill
I don’t know Corner Stone, and I don’t know all the facts here, but he doesn’t know what he’s talking about wrt employment law. Leach had a contract, and you have to look to the contract for any legitimate grounds for termination. Just judging by the six “for cause” provisions listed at the very top of the thread, Leach is going to survive any motion to dismiss his complaint, which will get him to discovery. Which means he’s going to get a nice settlement out of this, you can bank on that.
Yutsano
@Bill:
Which I would bet a beer is all he really wants out of this when all is said and done. A big fat paycheck and an opportunity to head coach somewhere else.
JerryS
Cornerstone doesn’t have the facts. If he did, he’d know:
1. Leach’s contract is very specific. Insubordination is no reason for dismissal, as per the contract.
2. Adam James was not locked anywhere – per statements by the Trainer watching him both times.
3. Adam James was cleared to return to the team by HIS doctor – with specific instructions, which Mike Leach followed.
4. Emails from the administration going back over a year clearly show the administration’s animus towards Leach. These emails will be Exhibit A in Leach’s wrongful termination lawsuit against the university.
5. Statements from the Doctor who treated James, the trainer who watched him, and several assistant coaches (who are still employed by Texas Tech), clearly show that Adam James is flat out lying about his alleged punishment.
6. Not one other player, in the ten years Leach has been at Tech, has complained about mistreatment by Leach. Additionally, not one other player, has come out and complained about mistreatment by Leach since he was fired. If this guy was so horrible, I’d expect all the disgruntled players to come out of the woodwork. Additionally, several former players have stepped forward, on the record, to defend Leach.
7. Texas Tech did not give Mike Leach the opportunity to defend himself against the charges of Adam and Craig James. This alone will allow his lawsuit to proceed to discovery and probably trial. Which, I assure you, Texas Tech does not want. The emails published by the Daily News will turn any jury against Texas Tech.
8. Mike Leach has stated that he has VoiceMails of Craig James threatening to go to the Administration of Texas Tech if Leach does not give Adam James more playing time. You can expect this to be Exhibit A in the civil suit against Craig James by Mike Leach.
Yutsano
@JerryS: Discovery will be bloody both ways here. I’m not defending the university here, but Leach is hardly a paragon of virtue here.
David
So, defenders of Texas Tech, let me get this straight: Leach probably deserved to be fired because he’s probably a bully, or something. There’s no unambiguous evidence to support this; most of it seems to be based on the presumption that MOST coaches are bullies, which would seem to complicate the notion that Leach’s supposed actions were unique and warranted firing.
Obviously, other information could come out, but so far all of the clear evidence that has emerged seems to me to support Leach’s claim that he’s done nothing wrong.
And people seem to be confusing some of the contractual implications. Schools can fire coaches whenever they want, for whatever reason (losing, insubordination, etc.). What they can’t do is fire them and not pay them the remainder of their contracted salary without demonstrating specific contractual violations, which is what Texas Tech is trying to do. If Jerry’s understanding of his contract is accurate (and from what I’ve seen elsewhere, I think it is), unless new information emerges Texas Tech owes Leach the remainder of his contract.
Corner Stone
@Bill: Well I don’t know you either Bill but I can tell you I’d make a friendly wager that his contract will prove just about as viable as “No Compete” contracts in TX.
IOW, good fucking luck to him. He’ll get a settlement, I agree. And that may be a “win”, but no court will ever rule in his favor based on the “insubordination” complaint.
Corner Stone
@JerryS: And you are off your fucking rocker and continue to miss the point. The University doesn’t give a shit at this point what James pere did or did not do. They told Leach to do something and he said Fuck You!
I say we wait and see how this plays out cause I’m thinking he’ll take a settlement and move on. He’ll certainly never get a judgment in his favor in a TX court.
Corner Stone
@Desert Rat:
I’d say you may have something there but what I’d argue is that in the olden days kids didn’t have as many high profile opportunities. They had a couple dozen big programs and a whole lot of nothing programs. If they burned a head coach at a major program they were done, and most likely no one would want to hear them “whine” anyway.
But now I hope things are changing a little and kids can be protected without ruining their viability at other programs.
Common Sense
@Dr. Squid:
I think Mumme would probably lead Tech to 4 wins or so every year at the D1 level as well.
Just like Baylor.
Dr. Squid
@Common Sense:
First of all, the point is that Leach’s offense is Mumme’s offense. Leach lifted it wholesale from his days as an assistant in Valdosta. So if you bring in Mumme, you get to recruit the same kids you had been, and those kids took you to ten straight bowl games. Meanwhile, he took a kid that was there for baseball, made him the starting QB and turned him into the #9 qb in passing yards in D3. The number of passes he threw last season was double what he threw in his entire high school career.
Meanwhile, you might wonder why you think everyone else is crazy for relying on facts while you make speculations based on what someone would do. For that kind of analysis, you might be better off writing for soap operas.
Tom_23
@JerryS: +1
A lot of misinformation floating about Leach. In fact here is a statement from a dad from a current player
Link
Tom_23
PS: Before the contraversy, here’s a good article (slightly over the top) on Leach. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/magazine/04coach.html?pagewanted=all
Ian
@JerryS:
What you have done is a classic appeal to ignorance. What you should have done is provided us a link that proves Mike Leach graduates more of his players. Instead you put the burden on us and give a highly improbable statistic to back it up.
JerryS
Ian –
Here ya go…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/30/AR2009123002278.html
Mike Leach graduated players at a rate 8th best in the Nation, and 1st in the Big 12.
Google is your friend.
Shalimar
@Corner Stone:
You’re pretty clearly not a lawyer. No one who went through even a semester of law school would ever make such a definitive statement with so little public information to base it on.
Do you even know what Hance and Myers asked Leach to do that he was insubordinate about? I saw Hance on ESPN saying he was in Leach’s corner but Leach was stubborn and wouldn’t do anything to help himself out. That is clearly bullshit, all evidence I have heard suggests that Hance and Myers wanted Leach gone even during the contract renegotiation last year but had to have an excuse so they themselves wouldn’t catch hell from alumni.
It isn’t even clear if any meetings with Leach took place either in person or over the phone, or what exactly he was asked to do. Suing for reinstatement because you were suspended isn’t insubordination in and of itself, especially if you have emails showing that the people who would hear your appeal in-house are biased against you.
calling all toasters
To tally it up so far…
On the pro-Leach side:
1– Adam James was not mistreated.
2– Craig James had no business commenting on this.
3– Craig James was an incredibly intrusive parent at practices.
4– Tech was invested in firing Leach to avoid paying him a big bonus.
5– There was no hearing of any sort.
6– Leach was summarily fired for insubordination, which is not an actual cause of action, per his contract
7– Leach has been very successful on the football field
8– Tech football players do well academically
On the anti-Leach side:
1– Leach has worn out his welcome
2– Leach is a jerk
3– Leach has lots of skeletons in his closet
4– You should always do what your boss commands
Does anyone else here get the feeling that the anti-Leach forces are being directed by Karl Rove?
AhabTRuler
@Ian:
No it isn’t.
Corner Stone
@Tom_23: Shorter Tom_23: I’m a REAL MAN dammit!
Corner Stone
@Shalimar:
Give me a break. Where will this issue be litigated, if it in fact does go to court?
TX.
I’ve seen more contracts be nullified in a TX court than I can shake my weiner at.
And you think a court is going to side with a coach over a University? Shit.
But as I said, let’s let it play out. Leach will take a settlement and move on – that’s my wager.
Ecks
Put it to my dad who is an administrator at a large public uni, and at least for tenured faculty (a comparison someone made WAAAAY up above) you can’t go firing them just because they refuse to sign some new document you gave them, no matter how blue in the face you turn shouting about “insubordination”. If a tenured faculty refused to teach the courses assigned to them, that would be one thing, and you could start proceedings to fire them, though it would be a messy. If you demanded they sign something new, and they refused, they’d have a grade A freedom of speech case against you, and you’d be going nowhere fast.
As the more lawyerly types above point out, it looks like TT *can* choose to fire Leach for whatever BS reason they want, but unless it is one of the specifically enumerated reasons defined in his contract (which this, at present does not appear to be), then the firing is not “for cause”, and the uni will be paying him a whole heck of a lot of money. And that just is what it is. Contracts can always be broken if you are willing to pay the price.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
If anybody is still following this thread, the university has released a couple of affidavits damaging to Leach. It’s a hell of a race to the bottom for all parties.
Tom_23
@Corner Stone: Not even close. The issue here is this an isolated incident or pattern (ala Mangino, the recently fire Kansas coach). As time goes on, more and more this is looking like James had an agenda. Here is some more backing.
Link
College coaches can be aweful. I read an account of what Coughlin did BC from an ex-player that was downright aweful (Emotionally and physically abusive from what I remember). I am sure Leach was just as tough.
But Leach in his quirky way supported his players as well.
Mike D.
James is just being a dad – using whatever means he can to go after someone who hurt his kid. That’s to be expected. The unprofessional party is ESPN, nominally a journalistic organization, giving him unconstrained access to a platform on which he has special standing, allowing him to use his profile on the network to his own personal ends. It’s amazing to me that they’ve done it and don’t seem to have any qualms about it.