Link to the story? More context? (Less cold medicine?)
‘Cos it’s pretty much a given that in the U.S. a joke about bombs, guns &c in an airport is a good way to wind up with a hand held metal detector up your ass.
I don’t know how it works where things go BOOM on a regular basis but I imagine they’re a tad stricter.
A German man was temporarily detained at Stuttgart airport on Tuesday after he repeatedly told security personnel that he had explosives in his underwear, police said.
Idiot got what he deserved.
7.
jeffreyw
The terrorists were winning with the Republicans in charge. At least to hear them talk they were. Be afraid! Be very afraid! Best thing Obama did was stay on vacation.
8.
schrodinger's cat
@beltane: They are rather earnest. I had a German friend who would begin his sentences with indeed and indubitably.
9.
General Winfield Stuck
Cole is now trolling his own blog. Not the first time. It will pass with a little more chicken soup and a lot less Robitussin DM,
@Terry: Christ, that’s 10×10^5^ times dumber than I expected.
But maybe he is the German equivalent of a wingnut and got exactly what he wanted, ja?
Police said a full body search of the German man did not turn up any explosives.
11.
danimal
I’ve often cursed Richard Reid as I remove my shoes in the airport. He was more disruptive to our economy and and our personal freedoms because he failed than he ever would have been if the shoe bomb detonated.
I expect we’ll have to check our underwear in the near future due to the undiebomber’s failure.
12.
cmorenc
Depends on what the “joke” was whether the man got exactly what he deserved for saying something recklessly inflammatory, or else the authorities demonstrated the sort of indiscriminate stupidity that inspires less, not more, confidence that they can spot a real terrorist in the crowd.
13.
Violet
@Terry:
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for the guy if this is what he did. If he made one stupid joke, that’s a different story.
John Cole, the headline you link to is misleading.
14.
d0n camillo
There’s a time and a place for joking, and airport security a few weeks after an attempted bombing on a jetliner is one of those.
Even before 9/11, this wasn’t a good idea.
15.
AB
so do they still let people travel by boat or no?
16.
cmorenc
Also, clearly not a good idea if you are a comedian out on a tour to blurt out to the person sitting next to you at the airport: “man I hope I don’t bomb tonight”.
John Cole, the headline you link to is misleading.
Meant to be
19.
grass
Technically you commented on it in the title. /pedant
20.
MattR
@cmorenc: And if you are meeting your friend Jack at the airport, be sure to greet him with “hello”, not “hi”
21.
Mayken
I stood in line at the Santa Barbara airport with my boss once while he cracked jokes about bombs and the security folks there were Not Amused. This was pre-9/11, mind you. So, no, I don’t think this is a case of the terrorists winning. It was not then, nor is it now, funny to joke about carrying bombs onto a plane, train, automobile, motor scooter you name it. It just isn’t.
Also, clearly not a good idea if you are a comedian out on a tour to blurt out to the person sitting next to you at the airport: “man I hope I don’t bomb tonight”.
You hearing this, MM?
23.
Max
Did anyone see Obama’s appearance this afternoon? I’m @ work and didn’t but the Twitter tells me he was pissed.
I’ve often cursed Richard Reid as I remove my shoes in the airport. He was more disruptive to our economy and and our personal freedoms because he failed than he ever would have been if the shoe bomb detonated.
I’m pretty immune to the shoe removal and other indignities, but I cursed terrorists in general when I got an invasive pat-down prior to boarding my early December flight. Had that woman done a similar pat-down on the boner bomber, she would have found his explosive undies. It was that invasive. I had to readjust all my clothes – outer and under – after she finished searching me.
25.
Catsy
Look, I’m not a fan of the near-police-state point we’ve gotten to with airport security, and I agree with the overall substantive point: that our overblown, ornamental and largely ineffective reactions to terrorism are doing the terrorists’ job for them.
But making a joke about having explosives at an airport is just mind-numbingly stupid any day of the week, and joking about having explosives in your skivvies a week after someone tried to blow up a plane in that same way reaches Darwin Award levels of stupidity.
This guy got the very least that he deserved, and this really isn’t a good example on which to hang a larger point about airline security paranoia.
26.
Mayken
@cmorenc: According to the article he repeatedly joked to the security agents that he had a bomb in his underwear. Of course, we don’t know whether that is true or not. He could have just pissed of some security dude and gotten busted for Annoyed a Person in Authority, which happens a lot more than we all would like to admit. But if it is true, sorry, he got what he deserved. Though they should have let his family on the plane. I am sure his wife was mortified.
27.
AkaDad
What brand of underwear did the undie-bomber wear?
Fruit of the BOOM!
28.
donovong
I was in Germany in the 70’s in a counter-terror role in the military. During my tenure there, the Bader-Meinhof Gang (Red Army Faction) was bombing the shit out of multiple targets there, just a couple of years after the Munich Olympic incident. We had numerous terror alerts ourselves, and had more than one incident, a few of which were public.
I can personally attest to the fact that the Germans do not fuck around and do not take terrorism lightly. It may be 30 years later, but this idiot got what he deserved and is lucky to be a free man.
“Ich bin ein douchebag.”
29.
schrodinger's cat
OK that was a pretty stupid “joke” to make. I guess I have to take back my first comment.
I’m @ work and didn’t but the Twitter tells me he was pissed.
Washington’s top socialite goes on teevee and calls for the firing of his Social Director and the SS Chief, and this after Dick Cheney drops non stop atomic turds on his presidency.
He ought to be pissed. I would be, but then the terrorists would win;
31.
Violet
Better headline: “German Man Is Idiot; Causes Family to Miss Vacation.”
Subheading: “Wife Sure She Can Do Better; Daughter Denies He’s Her Dad.”
32.
donovong
@General Winfield Stuck: And, of course, no pushback from either of the talking heads to Her Royal Majesty Sally Quinn. I suppose that is just not done in Village Society.
Hang on while I ask Mark Halperin.
33.
cmorenc
@MattR:
And if you are meeting your friend Jack at the airport, be sure to greet him with “hello”, not “hi”
In my case, that turns out to actually be valuable practical advice since my brother IS named “Jack”.
– and that’s not his nickname, that’s his formal first name on his birth certificate. He doesn’t have an alternate “nickname” other than his real name “Jack”. So, his friends will need to heed your advice too!
34.
valdivia
Totally OT but I could not agree with MattY more on this post about Chuck Lane. I have the added problem of thinking Peter Sarsgaard who plays Lane in the movie is rather the hawt so until Lane began revealing who he really is on his blog I was predisposed to like him. Why couldn’t someone have told me earlier so I could loathe him appropriately?
35.
John PM
Making a joke about having a bomb in an airport is akin to making a joke that you have been drinking after a police officer pulls you over, i.e., stupid!
36.
jenniebee
That happened in Richmond several years ago. Searching for the link found even more.
Airport security lines have never been free-speech zones, even before 9/11. Joking about the wrong thing within hearing of airport/airline employees has always (for as long as I can remember) had the potential to get you major law-enforcement hassles (if not jail time).
Edit: as Jenniebee’s link illustrates.
39.
cmorenc
@Mayken
According to the article he repeatedly joked to the security agents that he had a bomb in his underwear.
Well then, he WAS indeed a world-class noxious dumbshit who got what he deserved…no, make that he was lucky to be let off with much less than he could have deserved getting. They should have at least added a swift kick in his underpants on the way out the door to airport security.
40.
Mike Kay
I didn’t realize Colonel Klink was still alive.
Wacky, yuckster!
41.
Zuzu's Petals
I’m sure the fact that he was flying to Egypt didn’t help.
Well, one Red State senate seat down the tubes to the wingers. Dorgan won’t run for reelection likely cause he’s behind 20 polling points to wingnut. It’s obviously Obama;s fault for being a black red soshulist.
44.
The Moar You Know
Damn. I’ve been through Frankfurt a couple of times. Pre 9/11. Nothing but very, very serious looking military with MP5 submachine guns, MRI scanners for all luggage, and some fairly invasive personal searching.
I can’t imagine what it was like post 9/11, and this guy and his family ought to be counting themselves lucky they’re not in jail. What he is alleged to have done, if true, is fucking stupid.
@cmorenc: I am guessing your brother ran into idiot teachers who tried to correct him if he wrote Jack somewhere he was supposed to use his “full name”. I had friends named Jay and Brad who ran into that problem frequently when they were in elementary school. And elementary school is where I first heard a logic problem that had to do with the phrase “Hi Jack” in an airport. For some reason it has stuck with me for more than 25 years.
48.
El Cid
Didja know you can’t really make jokes about bank robbery and make jokes about having a gun and a stick-up note in a bank?
Yes, I would say the President was pissed, forceful, grim, and determined. It can’t have been pleasant for him but huge kudos for manning up, taking responsibility, and demanding accountability from the intelligence community. He embodies HST’s “the buck stops here” philosophy. I can’t imagine any circumstances under which his predecessor would have said those words or come through a situation like this one without breaking into a little smirk and blaming everybody else.
50.
16shellsfromathirtyoughtsix
According to the article he repeatedly joked to the security agents that he had a bomb in his underwear.
This is something Michael from ‘The Office’ would do. What a dumbass.
51.
The Moar You Know
@John Cole: Actually, if what he’s alleged to have done is true, that would have been a stupid move regardless of when it was done.
But yeah, point taken. The terrorists have certainly won; they’ve managed to fuck up almost every aspect of American civic life.
I can’t imagine any circumstances under which his predecessor would have said those words or come through a situation like this one without breaking into a little smirk and blaming everybody else.
Or giving out a Medal of Freedom.
53.
fraught
“He got what he deserved.” Was the full body search what he unconsciously wanted? No matter how lame his attempt his humor was, he couldn’t have been unaware that it wasn’t going over and needed to keep repeating it. Noone’s that stupid.
But you are missing the point, which is “given today’s environment.”
Joking about bombs at the security checkpoint is no different today than before the crotch bomber tried to blow up the plane. In fact, it’s not any different than before 9/11. Maybe the security personnel are paying more attention than they used to pre-9/11, but in general it’s always been a bad thing to joke about security issues at the security line in the airport and could get you in trouble.
In that regard, the terrorists won when the first terrorist hijacked the first plane.
56.
jenniebee
It’s not just jokes, the woman in Richmond was a 48 year old librarian who was arrested for explaining security policy to her husband:
The couple had been rerouted to American after their USAir connecting flight to Charlotte, N.C., was postponed due to bad weather. During the flight transfer to American, their baggage remained on the USAir plane.
An American Airlines security policy meant to deter terrorists from checking dangerous luggage on one flight, while escaping on another, kept the two from boarding the second plane. Hansel’s husband did not follow the policy’s logic, and asked his wife to explain.
According to a court document, Hansel replied, “This is the way we planned it: that we fly American, that our bags go on USAir and that the bomb in our bags can blow up their airplane. Now do you understand?”
“It’s absurd,” Hansel said. “We were having a rational conversation in which I did use the word ‘bomb.’ But to be arrested? I think the FBI were bored or just having a slow day.”
Hansel faced up to $1,000 in fines and five years in prison. The charges were later dropped, but only after she spent much “time, energy and money” clearing her name.
57.
General Winfield Stuck
Damn you Wright Brothers!!. When the Horse and Buggy era returns after the oil runs out but not before the ice melts, this will all seem like a bad dream.
58.
Jamie
He was really dumb, but the terrorists keep winning.
59.
schrodinger's cat
Those standard questions about whether you have packed your own bags, never made much sense to me. When did they start asking those? What purpose do they serve?
60.
Mayken
@John Cole: No, sorry, John, it was stupid pre-9/11 and it is stupid now. As witnessed by my comment above, the security personnel at airports have taken any talk, no matter how silly, about bombs on planes very seriously for YEARS. My boss was extraordinarily lucky that he was (eventually) allowed to get on the plane after making such remarks repeatedly and wasn’t booted off or arrested. And this was to get on a little puddle-jumper to Las Vegas from a fairly small airport (20 other people on the plane and maybe all of 150 in the whole airport at the time!)
I am with you on ineptness of security theatre and the stupid paranoia of the “war on terror” but remarks such as this have been out of line for all the years I’ve been getting on planes.
61.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@jenniebee: That librarian is good: Planning a bad weather transfer.
“I’ve often cursed Richard Reid as I remove my shoes in the airport. He was more disruptive to our economy and and our personal freedoms because he failed than he ever would have been if the shoe bomb detonated.”
True story: A relative used to work as a probation officer in London. One evening int he 1990s I was visiting her, and she was obviously disturbed. She said a petty criminal parolee she’d interviewed today had told her “all white women are whores”.
As she dealt with hard cases, sex offenders, etc., this was surprising to me that she’d been that shaken up by it.
Go forward a decade to the mid-2000s. She told me that she had a bad feeling about this guy, but he was only in the probation services purview for 30 days. She got his parole file form his former prison, but it was a lazy paint-by-numbers hack job. By the time she got through to the parole officer a this former prison, who admitted, yeah the guy was a bit of a wackjob and going to court to get the probation order extended might be a good idea, the 30 days were up and her office no longer had the authority to pull him in.
Of course, the all-white-women-are-whores guy was Richard Reid. If the parole officer at the prison had done his job, my relative would have had grounds to get the probation order extended, and maybe we wouldn’t be taking our shoes off at the airport.
My uncle who was a geology professor back in the 70’s and 80’s was asked about all the rocks in his luggage once. He tried to explain about “volcanic bombs” (larger bits of magma ejected into the air form a volcano that partially harden before impacting the ground).
So you all are telling me that on September 10th, 2001, you and I would be reading an AP story about some asshole in an airport in Germany?
It still would have happened, you just wouldn’t have heard about it. As a past commuter into Frankfurt, I can tell you they have never taken any shit.
69.
celticdragon
Also, war correspondent Michael Yon was briefly arrested today at the airport in Seattle for refusing to disclose his annual income to a TSA questioner.
The right wing blogs have all just discovered the Patriot Act can fuck you over…
70.
Mayken
@16shellsfromathirtyoughtsix: Yeah, it does sound too tv for reality, doesn’t it? On the other hand, I seriously had a boss almost exactly like Michael from the office, down to the not understanding the complete inappropriateness of 90% of what he said to his employees. And, as I commented above, almost got himself tossed from an flight for making jokes about bombs in the security line.
71.
MattR
@John Cole: We would not be reading about it because it would not be news, but it would have happened. As I commented earlier, I heard a logic problem about someone being arrested in an airport over a two word greeting (Hi Jack) when I was in elementary school in the 80’s.
72.
Demo Woman
OT Brian Williams is going to talk about possible hidden messages in the movie Avatar.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
If you said you had a bomb, well, likely yes. So long as you had your standard issue box cutters on hand.
74.
The Moar You Know
So you all are telling me that on September 10th, 2001, you and I would be reading an AP story about some asshole in an airport in Germany?
@John Cole: Would we be reading about it? No. Would that guy be cooling his heels in German jail? Hell yes.
Have you ever been through airport security in Germany? I went in 1997. One of the most intimidating experiences of my life.
75.
gopher2b
Kind of depends on the joke. If he said something like: “Are you happy to see me or is that a bomb in you pants, OH!” then over reaction.
But if he said “I have got a bomb in my underpants!!! Ha!! HA!! No seriously, I’ve got a bomb in my underpants!!! HAAAA!!!! HAAAA!!! Not kidding, going blow up the plane with the bomb in my underpants!!!!! HOOO HOOO HAA!!!! Then the asshole got what he deserved for no other reason than holding up the fucking line with his stupid joke.
@John Cole: I love how politico says it “threatens Democratic control of the Senate.” Because 59 means you don’t have control.
80.
Violet
@John Cole:
That’s just the press doing it’s usual “Look! Shiny object!” form of journalism of writing a story about whatever subject is “hot” at the moment.
Had the German guy done this in 2009 pre-crotch bomber, it might or might not been an AP story.
John, I’ll agree if you add to the list of winners anyone involved in the “security trade” in the U.S. They and the panty bombers have a real nice symbiosis going on.
84.
Bill Arnold
Those standard questions about whether you have packed your own bags, never made much sense to me. When did they start asking those? What purpose do they serve?
These questions date back to the 1980s or earlier (on El Al at least) and the “Hindawi_Affair”, where a man packed the bags of his pregnant Irish fiance and sent her on a flight to Israel to meet his parents. He packed a bomb.
Yeah, everybody lies when answering this question. They probably shouldn’t.
85.
chrome agnomen
i’m a full bore, dyed in the wool stinking liberal atheist DFH, and I can hardly wait for the damn rapture myself!! i just hope nobody hijacks any celestial shit; in case there is an afterlife, i don’t want to have to undergo a cavity search to get my horns.
86.
J
If we really are going to be prevented from visiting the lavatory for more than an hour before landing and for the whole of flights of an hour’s duration, the terrorists really have won.
My one post 25 Dec. flight suggests that they really are serious about this.
87.
Mayken
@J: I thought that was a short-term policy for the days just after the attack. Are they serious about this going forward?
88.
Violet
@Bill Arnold:
Apparently the questions are no longer required to be asked in the US. I’m still asked them when departing the UK. They also ask if I have any electric or battery operated items and I have to say what they are.
89.
Bill Arnold
My one post 25 Dec. flight suggests that they really are serious about this.
My one post 25 Dec. flight was on El Al, and they hadn’t changed their procedures at all as far as was obviously visible.
No new rules about bags, or rules about sitting for an hour before landing.
Have you ever been through airport security in Germany? I went in 1997. One of the most intimidating experiences of my life.
Same here. I went through in 1979 in Frankfurt and it was pretty intimidating even then. That was the first time I was ever patted down.
I traveled in China two months after 9-11. They really don’t mess around there, either.
91.
Mayken
@Violet: The last time I was “asked” those questions was in Detroit (on my way to Germany) and they were on a printed card the ticket agent handed to me before I gave her my bag. It was really quite amusing. She just asked, “What are your answers to these questions?” I answered appropriately I guess cause she took the bag without ever once looking at me.
92.
Mike G
A couple of years ago a European (I forget from where) at Houston airport made a joke about bombs in his luggage and got six months in jail.
93.
scarshapedstar
The terrorists won a long, long time ago, when half of America embraced the “they will blow up our office buildings, one by one, decade by decade, until we’re ALL DEAD” theory and started wetting the bed every night.
94.
J
Mayken #87
My flight was on 1 Jan. and there was no announcement that anything would be different; but despite the complete absence of even a hint of turbulence, the seat belt signs never went off during the hour long flight. Perhaps this experience was anomalous–I certainly hope so. Human nature being what it is, I feel embarrassed to voice concerns about the subject–even speaking behind the veil of anonymity–but if they do go through with this, the cost in dignity will be high–and flying fraught with opportunities for humiliation much greater than those we already routinely undergo. Will there be exceptions for children? for nervous fliers? for people with conditions of various kinds, whether temporary or chronic? Will one be allowed to ask for special permission after making an emergency petition to the flight attendant? One cringes at the thought.
I’ve been thinking much the same. In fact if I were of the tinfoil-hat persuasion, I might start believing that UndieBomber was paid big bucks by the manufacturers of full-body airport scanners . . . naaah, couldn’t be . . . . . .
Immigration already knows how much you make–it’s shown on their data terminals once they scan your passport. They ask as a means to dominate the situation (most people don’t like revealing their salary) and as a means of confirming identity.
El Al security is designed to prevent hijackings and bombings.
Western airline security is designed to scare the shit out of everybody.
El Al didn’t need to tighten security after the underwear bomber because their planes are already secure. Everybody else had to “tighten” their security because the TSA decided Americans weren’t scared enough.
99.
Randy P
@schrodinger’s cat:
They ask those questions because several bombings and attempted bombings have happened in exactly that way. I believe the Lockerbie, Scotland incident was traced to somebody who gave his girlfriend a bag to carry, and somebody posted a link here a day or two ago to a story where El Al security found a bomb and timing device in a bag which somebody gave to his girlfriend.
I think it started around the time of the Lockerbie incident.
That one struck close to home for me because that flight was carrying many of the semester abroad students from my alma mater, Syracuse. They lost something like 35 students that day.
100.
Randy P
I don’t remember noticing anything in particular about security in Germany (I flew a couple of EasyJet flights through Germany last year). I’ve been more struck by Air France security. There was an incident where I passed through the x-ray without incident but was pulled aside at the airplane to ask about something they’d seen in my backpack. It turned out to be a nail clipper with a fairly nasty implement attached.
That impressed me. As far as I could tell, they had second thoughts at security after I left but still were able to send enough of a description for me to be spotted and pulled aside by another guard. That kind of thing doesn’t annoy me, it makes me feel safe.
Another time at De Gaulle airport, the area I was in was temporarily evacuated while the police blew up an abandoned suitcase.
I trust the French to keep me safe (and to serve decent food and wine on board). Air France has been my preferred overseas airline, but the non-security-related hassles of changing planes at De Gaulle are getting to be too much.
101.
Ash Can
Jesus Christ, you guys, the no-jokes-about-bombs rules date back to the 19-fucking-60s, for crap’s sake. Do the words “Take this plane to Cuba” ring any bells?
Our national government and almost all of the establishment media have decided to play a similar game, which could be called Terrorball. The first two rules of Terrorball are: (1) The game lasts until there are no longer any terrorists, and; (2) If terrorists manage to ever kill or injure or seriously frighten any Americans, they win.
One has to wonder what drives a person to make a joke they must or should know it will bring unwanted circumstances.
I was once on the receiving end as a government employee signing up the unemployed for their checks. The lines were long. It was noisy and I still heard a claimant brag to his companions about how he was going to answer the required questions for his check. Laughter all around him. I figured when it was his turn to be questioned, he would start out that way and steer to the proper answers. All would be well and I would submit his payment to Albany. He kept on going. The laughter got louder and louder. I begged him to stop it. Suddenly the higher uppers and the armed guard were at my side. He was led to an inside office. No check for that week. He never did it again.
104.
YellowJournalism
@celticdragon: My dad was asked that, as well as the name of the company he works for and the full name of his boss. This was before Fruit of the Boom.
On the way home after Christmas, my sister was questioned as to why she bought clothes up here. Nevermind that half of the new clothes were gifts from me or that she was travelling from a city known for its damn gigantic mall.
105.
hamletta
@Ash Can: Thank you! I grew up in DC, and I learned the “no jokes” rule early.
And that’s another thing they don’t like at the airport. Jokes. You can’t joke about a bomb. Well, why is it just jokes? What about a riddle? How about a limerick? How about a bomb anecdote? You know, no punch line, just a really cute story. Or suppose you intended the remark not as a joke but as an ironic musing? Are they prepared to make that distinction? I think not! And besides, who’s to say what’s funny?
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schrodinger's cat
You are kidding, right?
chopper
airplane! was so on the money.
beltane
I’ve always been led to believe that German men did not make jokes. Perhaps airport security was surprised by this.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Link to the story? More context? (Less cold medicine?)
‘Cos it’s pretty much a given that in the U.S. a joke about bombs, guns &c in an airport is a good way to wind up with a hand held metal detector up your ass.
I don’t know how it works where things go BOOM on a regular basis but I imagine they’re a tad stricter.
General Winfield Stuck
What was the joke?
Terry
Man jokes about terrorism at German airport
Idiot got what he deserved.
jeffreyw
The terrorists were winning with the Republicans in charge. At least to hear them talk they were. Be afraid! Be very afraid! Best thing Obama did was stay on vacation.
schrodinger's cat
@beltane: They are rather earnest. I had a German friend who would begin his sentences with indeed and indubitably.
General Winfield Stuck
Cole is now trolling his own blog. Not the first time. It will pass with a little more chicken soup and a lot less Robitussin DM,
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Terry: Christ, that’s 10×10^5^ times dumber than I expected.
But maybe he is the German equivalent of a wingnut and got exactly what he wanted, ja?
danimal
I’ve often cursed Richard Reid as I remove my shoes in the airport. He was more disruptive to our economy and and our personal freedoms because he failed than he ever would have been if the shoe bomb detonated.
I expect we’ll have to check our underwear in the near future due to the undiebomber’s failure.
cmorenc
Depends on what the “joke” was whether the man got exactly what he deserved for saying something recklessly inflammatory, or else the authorities demonstrated the sort of indiscriminate stupidity that inspires less, not more, confidence that they can spot a real terrorist in the crowd.
Violet
@Terry:
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for the guy if this is what he did. If he made one stupid joke, that’s a different story.
John Cole, the headline you link to is misleading.
d0n camillo
There’s a time and a place for joking, and airport security a few weeks after an attempted bombing on a jetliner is one of those.
Even before 9/11, this wasn’t a good idea.
AB
so do they still let people travel by boat or no?
cmorenc
Also, clearly not a good idea if you are a comedian out on a tour to blurt out to the person sitting next to you at the airport: “man I hope I don’t bomb tonight”.
General Winfield Stuck
@AB:
A slow boat.
And only to China.
General Winfield Stuck
Meant to be
grass
Technically you commented on it in the title. /pedant
MattR
@cmorenc: And if you are meeting your friend Jack at the airport, be sure to greet him with “hello”, not “hi”
Mayken
I stood in line at the Santa Barbara airport with my boss once while he cracked jokes about bombs and the security folks there were Not Amused. This was pre-9/11, mind you. So, no, I don’t think this is a case of the terrorists winning. It was not then, nor is it now, funny to joke about carrying bombs onto a plane, train, automobile, motor scooter you name it. It just isn’t.
freelancer
@cmorenc:
You hearing this, MM?
Max
Did anyone see Obama’s appearance this afternoon? I’m @ work and didn’t but the Twitter tells me he was pissed.
Violet
@danimal:
I’m pretty immune to the shoe removal and other indignities, but I cursed terrorists in general when I got an invasive pat-down prior to boarding my early December flight. Had that woman done a similar pat-down on the boner bomber, she would have found his explosive undies. It was that invasive. I had to readjust all my clothes – outer and under – after she finished searching me.
Catsy
Look, I’m not a fan of the near-police-state point we’ve gotten to with airport security, and I agree with the overall substantive point: that our overblown, ornamental and largely ineffective reactions to terrorism are doing the terrorists’ job for them.
But making a joke about having explosives at an airport is just mind-numbingly stupid any day of the week, and joking about having explosives in your skivvies a week after someone tried to blow up a plane in that same way reaches Darwin Award levels of stupidity.
This guy got the very least that he deserved, and this really isn’t a good example on which to hang a larger point about airline security paranoia.
Mayken
@cmorenc: According to the article he repeatedly joked to the security agents that he had a bomb in his underwear. Of course, we don’t know whether that is true or not. He could have just pissed of some security dude and gotten busted for Annoyed a Person in Authority, which happens a lot more than we all would like to admit. But if it is true, sorry, he got what he deserved. Though they should have let his family on the plane. I am sure his wife was mortified.
AkaDad
What brand of underwear did the undie-bomber wear?
Fruit of the BOOM!
donovong
I was in Germany in the 70’s in a counter-terror role in the military. During my tenure there, the Bader-Meinhof Gang (Red Army Faction) was bombing the shit out of multiple targets there, just a couple of years after the Munich Olympic incident. We had numerous terror alerts ourselves, and had more than one incident, a few of which were public.
I can personally attest to the fact that the Germans do not fuck around and do not take terrorism lightly. It may be 30 years later, but this idiot got what he deserved and is lucky to be a free man.
“Ich bin ein douchebag.”
schrodinger's cat
OK that was a pretty stupid “joke” to make. I guess I have to take back my first comment.
General Winfield Stuck
@Max:
Washington’s top socialite goes on teevee and calls for the firing of his Social Director and the SS Chief, and this after Dick Cheney drops non stop atomic turds on his presidency.
He ought to be pissed. I would be, but then the terrorists would win;
Violet
Better headline: “German Man Is Idiot; Causes Family to Miss Vacation.”
Subheading: “Wife Sure She Can Do Better; Daughter Denies He’s Her Dad.”
donovong
@General Winfield Stuck: And, of course, no pushback from either of the talking heads to Her Royal Majesty Sally Quinn. I suppose that is just not done in Village Society.
Hang on while I ask Mark Halperin.
cmorenc
@MattR:
In my case, that turns out to actually be valuable practical advice since my brother IS named “Jack”.
– and that’s not his nickname, that’s his formal first name on his birth certificate. He doesn’t have an alternate “nickname” other than his real name “Jack”. So, his friends will need to heed your advice too!
valdivia
Totally OT but I could not agree with MattY more on this post about Chuck Lane. I have the added problem of thinking Peter Sarsgaard who plays Lane in the movie is rather the hawt so until Lane began revealing who he really is on his blog I was predisposed to like him. Why couldn’t someone have told me earlier so I could loathe him appropriately?
John PM
Making a joke about having a bomb in an airport is akin to making a joke that you have been drinking after a police officer pulls you over, i.e., stupid!
jenniebee
That happened in Richmond several years ago. Searching for the link found even more.
Mayken
@Violet: Win!
Tom Hilton
Airport security lines have never been free-speech zones, even before 9/11. Joking about the wrong thing within hearing of airport/airline employees has always (for as long as I can remember) had the potential to get you major law-enforcement hassles (if not jail time).
Edit: as Jenniebee’s link illustrates.
cmorenc
@Mayken
Well then, he WAS indeed a world-class noxious dumbshit who got what he deserved…no, make that he was lucky to be let off with much less than he could have deserved getting. They should have at least added a swift kick in his underpants on the way out the door to airport security.
Mike Kay
I didn’t realize Colonel Klink was still alive.
Wacky, yuckster!
Zuzu's Petals
I’m sure the fact that he was flying to Egypt didn’t help.
Elisabeth
@Max:
FWIW, here’s the TPM story. Sounds stern at the very least.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/obama-on-airline-security-the-system-has-failed.php?ref=fpa
General Winfield Stuck
Well, one Red State senate seat down the tubes to the wingers. Dorgan won’t run for reelection likely cause he’s behind 20 polling points to wingnut. It’s obviously Obama;s fault for being a black red soshulist.
The Moar You Know
Damn. I’ve been through Frankfurt a couple of times. Pre 9/11. Nothing but very, very serious looking military with MP5 submachine guns, MRI scanners for all luggage, and some fairly invasive personal searching.
I can’t imagine what it was like post 9/11, and this guy and his family ought to be counting themselves lucky they’re not in jail. What he is alleged to have done, if true, is fucking stupid.
John Cole
Yes, it is exceptionally stupid, given today’s environment, to make the jokes.
But you are missing the point, which is “given today’s environment.”
Pat Down wi Happy Ending
TSA – “Me love you long long time.”
http://wonkette.com/413034/413034#comments
MattR
@cmorenc: I am guessing your brother ran into idiot teachers who tried to correct him if he wrote Jack somewhere he was supposed to use his “full name”. I had friends named Jay and Brad who ran into that problem frequently when they were in elementary school. And elementary school is where I first heard a logic problem that had to do with the phrase “Hi Jack” in an airport. For some reason it has stuck with me for more than 25 years.
El Cid
Didja know you can’t really make jokes about bank robbery and make jokes about having a gun and a stick-up note in a bank?
SiubhanDuinne
@Max:
I just watched highlights on the CNN website http://us.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/05/obama.terror.meeting/index.html
Yes, I would say the President was pissed, forceful, grim, and determined. It can’t have been pleasant for him but huge kudos for manning up, taking responsibility, and demanding accountability from the intelligence community. He embodies HST’s “the buck stops here” philosophy. I can’t imagine any circumstances under which his predecessor would have said those words or come through a situation like this one without breaking into a little smirk and blaming everybody else.
16shellsfromathirtyoughtsix
This is something Michael from ‘The Office’ would do. What a dumbass.
The Moar You Know
@John Cole: Actually, if what he’s alleged to have done is true, that would have been a stupid move regardless of when it was done.
But yeah, point taken. The terrorists have certainly won; they’ve managed to fuck up almost every aspect of American civic life.
MattR
@SiubhanDuinne:
Or giving out a Medal of Freedom.
fraught
“He got what he deserved.” Was the full body search what he unconsciously wanted? No matter how lame his attempt his humor was, he couldn’t have been unaware that it wasn’t going over and needed to keep repeating it. Noone’s that stupid.
SiubhanDuinne
@MattR:
Absolutely. Stupid of me to overlook that!
Violet
@John Cole:
Joking about bombs at the security checkpoint is no different today than before the crotch bomber tried to blow up the plane. In fact, it’s not any different than before 9/11. Maybe the security personnel are paying more attention than they used to pre-9/11, but in general it’s always been a bad thing to joke about security issues at the security line in the airport and could get you in trouble.
In that regard, the terrorists won when the first terrorist hijacked the first plane.
jenniebee
It’s not just jokes, the woman in Richmond was a 48 year old librarian who was arrested for explaining security policy to her husband:
The couple had been rerouted to American after their USAir connecting flight to Charlotte, N.C., was postponed due to bad weather. During the flight transfer to American, their baggage remained on the USAir plane.
An American Airlines security policy meant to deter terrorists from checking dangerous luggage on one flight, while escaping on another, kept the two from boarding the second plane. Hansel’s husband did not follow the policy’s logic, and asked his wife to explain.
According to a court document, Hansel replied, “This is the way we planned it: that we fly American, that our bags go on USAir and that the bomb in our bags can blow up their airplane. Now do you understand?”
“It’s absurd,” Hansel said. “We were having a rational conversation in which I did use the word ‘bomb.’ But to be arrested? I think the FBI were bored or just having a slow day.”
Hansel faced up to $1,000 in fines and five years in prison. The charges were later dropped, but only after she spent much “time, energy and money” clearing her name.
General Winfield Stuck
Damn you Wright Brothers!!. When the Horse and Buggy era returns after the oil runs out but not before the ice melts, this will all seem like a bad dream.
Jamie
He was really dumb, but the terrorists keep winning.
schrodinger's cat
Those standard questions about whether you have packed your own bags, never made much sense to me. When did they start asking those? What purpose do they serve?
Mayken
@John Cole: No, sorry, John, it was stupid pre-9/11 and it is stupid now. As witnessed by my comment above, the security personnel at airports have taken any talk, no matter how silly, about bombs on planes very seriously for YEARS. My boss was extraordinarily lucky that he was (eventually) allowed to get on the plane after making such remarks repeatedly and wasn’t booted off or arrested. And this was to get on a little puddle-jumper to Las Vegas from a fairly small airport (20 other people on the plane and maybe all of 150 in the whole airport at the time!)
I am with you on ineptness of security theatre and the stupid paranoia of the “war on terror” but remarks such as this have been out of line for all the years I’ve been getting on planes.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@jenniebee: That librarian is good: Planning a bad weather transfer.
celticdragon
@16shellsfromathirtyoughtsix:
One of the more interesting names I have seen in awhile.
Demo Woman
@General Winfield Stuck: That sucks!
Comrade Sock Puppet of the Great Satan
“I’ve often cursed Richard Reid as I remove my shoes in the airport. He was more disruptive to our economy and and our personal freedoms because he failed than he ever would have been if the shoe bomb detonated.”
True story: A relative used to work as a probation officer in London. One evening int he 1990s I was visiting her, and she was obviously disturbed. She said a petty criminal parolee she’d interviewed today had told her “all white women are whores”.
As she dealt with hard cases, sex offenders, etc., this was surprising to me that she’d been that shaken up by it.
Go forward a decade to the mid-2000s. She told me that she had a bad feeling about this guy, but he was only in the probation services purview for 30 days. She got his parole file form his former prison, but it was a lazy paint-by-numbers hack job. By the time she got through to the parole officer a this former prison, who admitted, yeah the guy was a bit of a wackjob and going to court to get the probation order extended might be a good idea, the 30 days were up and her office no longer had the authority to pull him in.
Of course, the all-white-women-are-whores guy was Richard Reid. If the parole officer at the prison had done his job, my relative would have had grounds to get the probation order extended, and maybe we wouldn’t be taking our shoes off at the airport.
John Cole
So you all are telling me that on September 10th, 2001, you and I would be reading an AP story about some asshole in an airport in Germany?
MikeJ
If you want stupid how about shutting down half of SeaTac because someone locked the door to the toilet.
celticdragon
@Violet:
My uncle who was a geology professor back in the 70’s and 80’s was asked about all the rocks in his luggage once. He tried to explain about “volcanic bombs” (larger bits of magma ejected into the air form a volcano that partially harden before impacting the ground).
Let’s just say that it didn’t go over real well.
MikeJ
@John Cole:
It still would have happened, you just wouldn’t have heard about it. As a past commuter into Frankfurt, I can tell you they have never taken any shit.
celticdragon
Also, war correspondent Michael Yon was briefly arrested today at the airport in Seattle for refusing to disclose his annual income to a TSA questioner.
The right wing blogs have all just discovered the Patriot Act can fuck you over…
Mayken
@16shellsfromathirtyoughtsix: Yeah, it does sound too tv for reality, doesn’t it? On the other hand, I seriously had a boss almost exactly like Michael from the office, down to the not understanding the complete inappropriateness of 90% of what he said to his employees. And, as I commented above, almost got himself tossed from an flight for making jokes about bombs in the security line.
MattR
@John Cole: We would not be reading about it because it would not be news, but it would have happened. As I commented earlier, I heard a logic problem about someone being arrested in an airport over a two word greeting (Hi Jack) when I was in elementary school in the 80’s.
Demo Woman
OT Brian Williams is going to talk about possible hidden messages in the movie Avatar.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
General Winfield Stuck
@John Cole:
If you said you had a bomb, well, likely yes. So long as you had your standard issue box cutters on hand.
The Moar You Know
@John Cole: Would we be reading about it? No. Would that guy be cooling his heels in German jail? Hell yes.
Have you ever been through airport security in Germany? I went in 1997. One of the most intimidating experiences of my life.
gopher2b
Kind of depends on the joke. If he said something like: “Are you happy to see me or is that a bomb in you pants, OH!” then over reaction.
But if he said “I have got a bomb in my underpants!!! Ha!! HA!! No seriously, I’ve got a bomb in my underpants!!! HAAAA!!!! HAAAA!!! Not kidding, going blow up the plane with the bomb in my underpants!!!!! HOOO HOOO HAA!!!! Then the asshole got what he deserved for no other reason than holding up the fucking line with his stupid joke.
I do feel bad for his wife and kid though.
John Cole
Dorgan’s out- I’m betting if Rahm will just stfu we can get a much more liberal Democrat elected in his place.
John Cole
@The Moar You Know: I lived in Germany for three years.
bago
I’m guessing this takes Logic Bombs right off the table.
MikeJ
@John Cole: I love how politico says it “threatens Democratic control of the Senate.” Because 59 means you don’t have control.
Violet
@John Cole:
That’s just the press doing it’s usual “Look! Shiny object!” form of journalism of writing a story about whatever subject is “hot” at the moment.
Had the German guy done this in 2009 pre-crotch bomber, it might or might not been an AP story.
bago
You are on the way to destruction!
General Winfield Stuck
@John Cole:
Jane’s Addiction has this.
mcd410x
John, I’ll agree if you add to the list of winners anyone involved in the “security trade” in the U.S. They and the panty bombers have a real nice symbiosis going on.
Bill Arnold
These questions date back to the 1980s or earlier (on El Al at least) and the
“Hindawi_Affair”, where a man packed the bags of his pregnant Irish fiance and sent her on a flight to Israel to meet his parents. He packed a bomb.
Yeah, everybody lies when answering this question. They probably shouldn’t.
chrome agnomen
i’m a full bore, dyed in the wool stinking liberal atheist DFH, and I can hardly wait for the damn rapture myself!! i just hope nobody hijacks any celestial shit; in case there is an afterlife, i don’t want to have to undergo a cavity search to get my horns.
J
If we really are going to be prevented from visiting the lavatory for more than an hour before landing and for the whole of flights of an hour’s duration, the terrorists really have won.
My one post 25 Dec. flight suggests that they really are serious about this.
Mayken
@J: I thought that was a short-term policy for the days just after the attack. Are they serious about this going forward?
Violet
@Bill Arnold:
Apparently the questions are no longer required to be asked in the US. I’m still asked them when departing the UK. They also ask if I have any electric or battery operated items and I have to say what they are.
Bill Arnold
My one post 25 Dec. flight was on El Al, and they hadn’t changed their procedures at all as far as was obviously visible.
No new rules about bags, or rules about sitting for an hour before landing.
EEH
@The Moar You Know:
Same here. I went through in 1979 in Frankfurt and it was pretty intimidating even then. That was the first time I was ever patted down.
I traveled in China two months after 9-11. They really don’t mess around there, either.
Mayken
@Violet: The last time I was “asked” those questions was in Detroit (on my way to Germany) and they were on a printed card the ticket agent handed to me before I gave her my bag. It was really quite amusing. She just asked, “What are your answers to these questions?” I answered appropriately I guess cause she took the bag without ever once looking at me.
Mike G
A couple of years ago a European (I forget from where) at Houston airport made a joke about bombs in his luggage and got six months in jail.
scarshapedstar
The terrorists won a long, long time ago, when half of America embraced the “they will blow up our office buildings, one by one, decade by decade, until we’re ALL DEAD” theory and started wetting the bed every night.
J
Mayken #87
My flight was on 1 Jan. and there was no announcement that anything would be different; but despite the complete absence of even a hint of turbulence, the seat belt signs never went off during the hour long flight. Perhaps this experience was anomalous–I certainly hope so. Human nature being what it is, I feel embarrassed to voice concerns about the subject–even speaking behind the veil of anonymity–but if they do go through with this, the cost in dignity will be high–and flying fraught with opportunities for humiliation much greater than those we already routinely undergo. Will there be exceptions for children? for nervous fliers? for people with conditions of various kinds, whether temporary or chronic? Will one be allowed to ask for special permission after making an emergency petition to the flight attendant? One cringes at the thought.
Mayken
@J: ugh! Hope it is a fluke, too!
SiubhanDuinne
@mcd410x / #83
I’ve been thinking much the same. In fact if I were of the tinfoil-hat persuasion, I might start believing that UndieBomber was paid big bucks by the manufacturers of full-body airport scanners . . . naaah, couldn’t be . . . . . .
Mari
@celticdragon:
Yon was arrested by immigration, not the TSA.
Immigration already knows how much you make–it’s shown on their data terminals once they scan your passport. They ask as a means to dominate the situation (most people don’t like revealing their salary) and as a means of confirming identity.
Mari
@Bill Arnold:
El Al security is designed to prevent hijackings and bombings.
Western airline security is designed to scare the shit out of everybody.
El Al didn’t need to tighten security after the underwear bomber because their planes are already secure. Everybody else had to “tighten” their security because the TSA decided Americans weren’t scared enough.
Randy P
@schrodinger’s cat:
They ask those questions because several bombings and attempted bombings have happened in exactly that way. I believe the Lockerbie, Scotland incident was traced to somebody who gave his girlfriend a bag to carry, and somebody posted a link here a day or two ago to a story where El Al security found a bomb and timing device in a bag which somebody gave to his girlfriend.
I think it started around the time of the Lockerbie incident.
That one struck close to home for me because that flight was carrying many of the semester abroad students from my alma mater, Syracuse. They lost something like 35 students that day.
Randy P
I don’t remember noticing anything in particular about security in Germany (I flew a couple of EasyJet flights through Germany last year). I’ve been more struck by Air France security. There was an incident where I passed through the x-ray without incident but was pulled aside at the airplane to ask about something they’d seen in my backpack. It turned out to be a nail clipper with a fairly nasty implement attached.
That impressed me. As far as I could tell, they had second thoughts at security after I left but still were able to send enough of a description for me to be spotted and pulled aside by another guard. That kind of thing doesn’t annoy me, it makes me feel safe.
Another time at De Gaulle airport, the area I was in was temporarily evacuated while the police blew up an abandoned suitcase.
I trust the French to keep me safe (and to serve decent food and wine on board). Air France has been my preferred overseas airline, but the non-security-related hassles of changing planes at De Gaulle are getting to be too much.
Ash Can
Jesus Christ, you guys, the no-jokes-about-bombs rules date back to the 19-fucking-60s, for crap’s sake. Do the words “Take this plane to Cuba” ring any bells?
mcd410x
@SiubhanDuinne: Lol, nice.
Great LGM post on Terrorball:
I’m sure someone has posted this already.
HRA
@Ash Can:
Ding!
One has to wonder what drives a person to make a joke they must or should know it will bring unwanted circumstances.
I was once on the receiving end as a government employee signing up the unemployed for their checks. The lines were long. It was noisy and I still heard a claimant brag to his companions about how he was going to answer the required questions for his check. Laughter all around him. I figured when it was his turn to be questioned, he would start out that way and steer to the proper answers. All would be well and I would submit his payment to Albany. He kept on going. The laughter got louder and louder. I begged him to stop it. Suddenly the higher uppers and the armed guard were at my side. He was led to an inside office. No check for that week. He never did it again.
YellowJournalism
@celticdragon: My dad was asked that, as well as the name of the company he works for and the full name of his boss. This was before Fruit of the Boom.
On the way home after Christmas, my sister was questioned as to why she bought clothes up here. Nevermind that half of the new clothes were gifts from me or that she was travelling from a city known for its damn gigantic mall.
hamletta
@Ash Can: Thank you! I grew up in DC, and I learned the “no jokes” rule early.
J. A. Baker
This reminds me of something the late, great George Carlin once said: