Bart Stupak claims that he has 10 or 12 votes to block the Senate bill because it doesn’t go far enough on abortion. Needless to say, I think that Stupak’s office is dying to hear from any of you who live in his district.
But maybe we can find out who these 10 or 12 Democrats are, or whether they exist at all. If your representative seems like someone who might support HCR and might kill it over abortion, call him or her and find out where they stand. Email me (Tim F, not John Cole) about what you’re hearing back from them. The important questions are (1) is he or she inclined to support the Senate HCR bill, and (2) whether the Nelson language really be enough to kill his or her vote.
A little later today I will announce a slightly more organized plan that reader mcc and I are working out to track who stands where on this.
robertdsc
He pulled the same stunt when Pelosi introduced the House bill, which is why he got a vote on his amendment. Of course, he never divulged the names of the people who were with him, but the GOP came to his aid and helped his amendment pass.
Fucker.
Caren
This is again why compromising within the party was stupid. Lieberman, who absolutely gutted the HCR bill is making noises like he won’t vote for it.
They weakened the hell out of it in order to get these votes, and they still don’t have those votes.
Kill Stupak. Put the public option, which the public supports, back in. Put in drug reimportation and negotiation. Put in anti-trust regulations. Remove Stupak. Pass it all with 50 votes plus Biden.
Yes, Bart, Joe, and their imaginary friends will have a fit, but let Joe know if he doesn’t vote for it he loses his seniority and his chair, since it will be obvious he’s not caucusing with Democrats.
That’s what they should do. Of course, they’re spineless and don’t want to upset wealthy corporate sponsorships–that’s where they plan to work after all, so they’ll cave even more.
Alex S.
Stupak needs to be silenced. This maneuver only creates another rift in the coalition. A party must not accept this.
I hope Pelosi prepares a quick vote in the dead of night or something. The only thing that can keep this bill from passing is democratic fear and catholic lobbying. So if the Dems pass it they should make no fuss about it. The Senate bill will stay ready to be passed for another 12 months. The Dems should pick the right time. It’s all theirs, really.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
Anyone from Michigan should call Stupak.
He is considering a run for Governor. Tell him you will not support him in the primary or general for Governor if he doesn’t support the Senate bill.
Stroszek
Could someone, anyone in DC just go on TV and ask how someone who claims to be defending “the unborn” can justify voting down a bill that would guarantee prenatal care to every mother in America?
Doesn’t this also mean that Stupak would never have voted for the conference report anyway?
Napoleon
@robertdsc:
I don’t have links at the ready for this but it is worth pointing out that when he pulled that stunt he claimed to have 40 votes. At that time I read an quote from an anonymous congress person who said that was not true and that it only cost them 10-12 votes, which was reflected in the vote taken at that time.
IMO Stupak has shown himself to be a complete liar when it comes to this issue and he is willing to say and do anything to try and push it forward regardless of any damage he causes (remember his staff member who was conspiring with the Republicans), and in reality it is his own lone quest that he tries to make look like a movement of more then just him.
Mattsky
Aren’t these negotiations on C-SPAN?
geg6
Oh, I’m sure my congress critter, Jason Altmire, is one of those 10 or 12. No doubt about it at all. He’s a total fuck and I want him primaried so bad, it hurts. But it ain’t gonna happen here in teabagger W. PA.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Alex S.:
__
Just how do you propose to silence him? Pick him up outside of his favorite restaurant and have him disappear, maybe under Giants Stadium? Or should he be hustled off to the Lubyanka in a black Volga, then introduced to the pleasures of Adult’s World?
Stupak doesn’t need to be silenced, he needs to be marginalized.
Kryptik
Totally OT, but the more I try and read comments on various political blogs and such, and gauge reactions to the election from there, the more and more demoralized I get. The takeaway?
Dems need to be more bipartisan and conservative because they tried to be utopian commies and got burned for it. Oh, and Republicans are right to obstruct anything, because Dems are dirty lefty commies.
Sweet jumping Christ, Republicans could kick every single Democrat in the country in the balls repeatedly, and people would decry the Dems for sexually molesting Republicans. After all, they keep forcing those poor Reps into touching Dems in the naughty spot!
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Dennis-SGMM
Please share your plan with the Obama administration: they don’t seem to have one.
Keith G
They are likely the ones who already voted no. Stupak is raising campaign cash so it “pays” to be as over the right edge as possible.
Not a new issue in my view.
4tehlulz
Call everyone’s bluff. Put the Senate bill to a vote and let the chips fall where they may.
Demo Woman
Tim, Thank you for arranging this. If Stupak is your representative, can you please ask him as a good Christian how can you let 30000 to 40000 Americans die a year because they do not have health care.
If the response is because abortion kills also, you might point out that is settled law (we hope) and as your representative, he has the opportunity to do some good for his citizens.
Napoleon
@4tehlulz:
Exactly. Even if it fails at least everyone lays their cards on the table and we will all know who needs to go from the caucus. If a Dem wants to vote against it and risk a primary make him actually do it and reveal him or her self.
Chyron HR
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Obviously, I would cast Silence on him. As long as he doesn’t have an Echo Herb, we’re golden–otherwise, follow up with Fire2.
Mary
Should we be calling our own reps every day or was the one call yesterday sufficient?
Stroszek
@Comrade Scrutinizer: I’d prefer to just punch him in the face.
Kryptik
@Chyron HR:
But Silence, Stop, and Slow never work…
The obvious answer here is to just cast Flare all day long.
Cat Lady
Just got off the phone with Barney Frank’s very nice staffer who says that he hates the Senate bill re abortion rights but understands the need to keep pushing, we’ll know more later today, and his first reported statement was more thinking out loud than well-considered. They all need to hear from us regardless whether you think your Rep. cares or not. It’s not a waste of breath. Teatards with their tiny stunted brains understand this.
Stroszek
@Cat Lady: He hates the Senate bill on abortion rights but he voted for the Stupak’d House bill?
Put down the f’n shovel, Barney. The hole is deep enough. Just lay in it for now.
Scott
Just how do you propose to silence him? Pick him up outside of his favorite restaurant and have him disappear, maybe under Giants Stadium? Or should he be hustled off to the Lubyanka in a black Volga, then introduced to the pleasures of Adult’s World?
Either of those would actually be fine with me.
SpaceSquid
@4tehlulz
Another vote for that here. If the Democrats attempt to pass their signature legislation ends up torpedoed by the Democrats, the only possible way to limit the damage would be to have it on the record which specific Democrats just crippled their own party.
4tehlulz
>Just how do you propose to silence him?
Letting him try to govern Michigan seems like a good way to do it.
Glocksman
I’m positive my own Brad Ellsworth (IN-08) is one of them.
This area is heavily anti-abortion*, so even if he personally leaned pro choice, he politically has to support Stupak.
Brad’s in for a tough fight this time around and he doesn’t need to hand the Repubs another club to beat him around the head with.
*Remember Sarah Palin’s first post election speech?
It was to the Vanderburgh County Right to Life.
Vanderburgh is home to the district’s largest city.
Dennis-SGMM
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Couldn’t Stupak, and any other wavering Democratic reps be strong armed? What would happen if they were privately told that unless they vote to pass the Senate bill they will be primaried and the resources of the party will be behind their opponent? If they’re willing to derail this crucial-to-the-party piece of legislation then the party should be willing to derail them.
John
Okay, the Democrats who voted for the Stupak amendment and for the House bill are as follows:
1. Joe Baca
2. Marion Berry
3. Sanford Bishop
4. Dennis Cardoza
5. Chris Carney
6. Jim Cooper
7. Jim Costa
8. Jerry Costello
9. Henry Cuellar
10. Kathy Dahlkemper
11. Joe Donnelly
12. Mike Doyle
13. Steve Driehaus
14. Brad Ellsworth
15. Bob Etheridge
16. Baron Hill
17. Paul Kanjorski
18. Marcy Kaptur
19. Dale Kildee
20. Jim Langevin
21. Dan Lipinski
22. Stephen Lynch
23. Mike Michaud
24. Alan Mollohan
25. John Murtha
26. Richard Neal
27. Jim Oberstar
28. Dave Obey
29. Solomon Ortiz
30. Tom Perriello
31. Earl Pomeroy
32. Nick Rahall
33. Silvestre Reyes
34. Ciro Rodriguez
35. John Salazar
36. Vic Snyder
37. Zach Space
38. John Spratt
39. Bart Stupak
40. Charlie Wilson
I imagine the vast majority of these would be fine with the Senate language, but who knows how many would not? It is pretty ridiculous that any measure which wins the support of Ben Nelson and which was designed by Bob Casey should be considered as too pro-choice to win any of these guys’ votes.
My understanding is that only Stupak and Driehaus have openly suggested they cannot support the Senate version because of the abortion language.
Barbara
Stupak represents a district in the state with the HIGHEST unemployment rate in the nation, with more people who are in the position of having lost some of the best insurance coverage to be had, and now having none — zip, zero, zilch, nada — and no way of paying for health care unless they qualify for Medicaid.
He is Exhibit A of why I left the Catholic Church. The price is too goddamned high.
John
Also, Stupak’s list of “ten to twelve Democrats” who cannot support the Senate version is, I think, pretty clearly a bluff. If these people existed, we would know who they are. Stupak and Driehaus are making perfectly clear their opposition to the bill if the Stupak language is replaced by the Senate abortion language. Who are the other eight? Why should we believe Stupak?
I think a lot of the Dems who voted for the amendment did so not because they considered it a sine qua non themselves, but because they were afraid the bill would not have 218 votes without it. And, obviously, at this point, even Stupak and Driehaus alone are enough to kill the Senate bill, if Pelosi can’t pick up other votes elsewhere – Wexler has, for obscure reasons, resigned, and Joseph Cao is probably not going to vote for it again anyway, so there’s no margin for error in losing the votes of anybody else who voted for the bill the first time – they’d have to be countered by new votes from the 38 Democrats who voted against the bill.
That is maybe possible, but I suspect this is one of the main obstacles in the way of passage of the Senate bill.
Nick
@Glocksman: He WAS Vandenburg County Sheriff before becoming a Congressman
Glocksman
@John:
Ridiculous??
Sure but that won’t prevent the Repubs as portraying that vote as ‘anti life’.
Look here if you want to see how the loons are already portraying the Senate bill.
Personally I think Ellsworth has no fucking choice but to either stick with Stupak or get beat by Buschon come November.
Mary
I don’t know if this is the right place to post this, but it looks like Labor is on board with passing the Senate bill, then fixing it. This must mean there is a firm deal in place guaranteeing that the Senate will agree to the excise tax fix. Yay.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/labor-coalesces-pass-senate-health-care-bill-but-only-if-its-fixed-quickly.php
Napoleon
@John:
It is worth pointing out that it was reported when the vote was held that Pelosi had commitments for more votes then the bill got but she let some of them vote against it to protect themselves. So there should be wiggle room there, but no one but the Dem leadership knows how much that is.
Glocksman
@Nick:
Sure he was.
He also tacked hard right in order to beat John Hostettler.
Not only did he publicly tout his pro life credentials, he worked hard to garner an NRA ‘A’ rating.
I have no idea where he personally stands on abortion, but his statements on the issue lead me to believe that he’d rather have the House Democratic caucus pissed at him than the local right to life crowd.
The caucus can’t vote him out of office.
The pro-life nutters can.
Fwiffo
Isn’t it past time that Bart woke up next to a horse head?
Nick
@Glocksman: To be honest…abortion and guns are really the only issues I tend to be far more conservative on than the rest of the party.
and I’m from New Jersey.
Tim F.
@geg6: Jason Altmire is definitely not one of those 10-12. Altmire would not vote for HCR if you let him write the bill himself.
Glocksman
@Mary:
If the fixes are guaranteed, that is a plus.
The risk is that the prima donnas in the Senate will say ‘sure’ and then turn right around and stick in the shiv.
If that happens, look for labor to be furious.
Glocksman
@Nick:
Heh..
I’m a lifelong southwestern Indiana Hoosier, and I’m to the right of most of the Republican party on guns.
Never mind the Democrats. :)
Abortion?
Never had a strong opinion either way, but I lean somewhat pro choice.
Corner Stone
@Napoleon:
This is an important point and I’ve been looking for a place to point this out myself. There’s no telling how many she blessed but we better hope it was a couple dozen or more.
Corner Stone
@Glocksman:
…And?
Corner Stone
@geg6:
It may be my form of weird dyslexia but everytime I see his name I read it as “Jason Amirite?”
Glocksman
@Corner Stone:
Purely speculating, you might see primary challengers become well funded.
That said, in a tight race labor’s GOTV and fundraising can make a difference.
IOW, while we won’t officially endorse whatever Republican winds up on top in Arkansas, we damn sure can just sit on our hands come Election day.
From my POV, I’d rather be stabbed in the front by a Republican than in the back by ‘Democrats’ like Blanche.