House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just told reporters that she does not believe she has enough votes in the House to pass the Senate health care reform bill as-is — at least not yet.
“I don’t see the votes for it at this time,” Pelosi said. “The members have been very clear in our caucus about the fact that they didn’t like it before it had the Nebraska provision and some of the other provisions that are unpalatable to them.”
“In every meeting that we have had, there would be nothing to give me any thought that that bill could pass right now the way that it is,” she said. “There isn’t a market right now for proceeding with the full bill unless some big changes are made.”
According to Ed Schultz and other manic progressives, this means that health care stocks should plummet, because they were only pretending to be against HCR but actually wanted it to pass.
Considering Pelosi has been the only person in DC to regularly deliver the votes, you can probably just kiss off the rest of the agenda. Climate change, financial regulation- whatever. Done. The caucus will now spend the the year running for cover and running to the right because they will misread the election results in Massachusetts. This never was going to be easy, but the egos on all sides of the issue, the big money boys, and the special interests won out.
My only question- which house blue dog will be the first to introduce a bill extend the Bush tax cuts to show their bipartisanship?
*** Update ***
Dana Houle and others state we are being hysterical (not the funny kind) nitwits and should slow down:
Pelosi DIDN’T mean HCR is dead. In fact, she said the opposite. I’m sick of people wanting to be outraged and disillusioned.
Tomlinson
Great. One party is unwilling to act, the other is unable to act.
We get the government we deserve.
shortstop
This fetal position feels really nice. Just leave me here for a little while.
BR
I just shouted at my rep about this. Told them that I’m tired of dems being scared of their own shadows and that they need to pass the senate bill and get it to the president by the SOTU. Told them I’m for single payer but we can’t get that done now and dems need to demonstrate that they didn’t just waste the last year on HCR with nothing to show for it.
I’m going to keep calling.
John Cole
I called Rep. Mollohan, stated my position, and also asked her to kindly kick Bart Stupak in the balls for me.
Skepticat
@John Cole: And it needn’t be too kindly.
Xantar
I don’t know. Sounds to me like she’s saying, “I need to know that this is going to revisited somewhere down the line.” Or in other words, “Promise me we’ll fix this in reconciliation.”
dr. bloor
Climate bill is toast, but financial reform and a good jobs bill needn’t be dead by a longshot. No one wants to be on the record against jobs and thrashing the banksters during an election year.
gex
@John Cole: I hope that is literal.
blackwaterdog
How incredibly sad. To let one vote kill an entire party with an overwhelming majority. It’s stunning.
Robin G.
Obviously I didn’t get drunk enough last night.
Fuck them. Seriously, fuck them. It’s not even the loss of such critical legislation. It’s that they were so, so close and fucked up. It’s like baseball — I hate losing to the Yankees, but losses happen; it’s the four run lead blown in the bottom of the ninth that’s inexcusable.
Scott
My only question- which house blue dog will be the first to introduce a bill extend the Bush tax cuts to show their bipartisanship?
Just the tax cuts? I’m wondering which Dem will reach across the aisle and start the impeachment process for the Repubs.
Mr Furious
Fuck Pelosi. If there’s no roll call vote, why should I just accept this as fact?
Casting an actual vote is a hell of a lot different than a whip count.
It the votes aren’t there, and it goes down, fine. Move on from there.
But not voting only proves to me that you are afraid to vote or don’t actually want to. It doesn’t prove the supports not there.
Karmakin
A climate bill never had a hope of hell of passing. Same with a real jobs bill. People are simply not going to support paying tax dollars to give jobs to poor people.
The only on that might have a shot is bank reform, but even that, I think in the end the potential damage to the stock market will kill the bill.
Like it or not, this isn’t even a political problem. This is a cultural problem. It’s the final evolution of “I’ve got mine, fuck you”
Michael
Its done. No HCR for my working life.
On top of that, the crazy has ramped up, and one of the biggest idiots that I know, a guy who I’ve known and represented (along with family members) for the last 20 years may actually figure out how to sail into Congress for a job that he is the least qualified for of just about anybody I know, including the semi-morons.
He’s gone full on teabagger, is in real estate, and in the thrall of douchebag developers. Plus he’s asking for my personal support – and I may have to terminate a 25 year friendship over this bullshit. Thing is, he’s running against a super-nice incumbent who won’t battle against the crazy.
I want to start punching and burning right now, primarily conservatives, but I’ve got some progressives on my list, too.
mcd410x
I move that this become a cooking blog.
BR
I’m calling the white house too. They need to hear about this. Obama needs to push the house to vote the senate bill through. This is a time when his voice will matter, since the house seems to be clueless at the moment.
PeterJ
I, for one, welcome our Chinese overlords.
Would the last person to leave please turn off the lights?
EdTheRed
Fuck the Dems. Fuck ’em. They’re a bunch of chickenshit narcissistic cowards. Come November, when they’re swept the fuck out of office because no one bothers to show up and vote for them (and really, why should they, since the Dems didn’t bother to show up and vote for their constituents on the most important domestic issue of the past hundred years?), they’ll think they lost because they weren’t conservative enough.
Fucking losers. Pathetic fucking losers. Bush ruined the fucking country from top to bottom, and he never had the votes the Dems do now. Fucking pussies. Die in a fucking fire. Fuck you.
Also, too.
Mike from Philly
Bring back our Republican overlords! At least they have the decency to state their malevolent intent upfront and wear their ignorance proudly on their sleeves. Give me a genuinely evil moron over these incompetant cowards any day. I can make fun of the moron, the incompetant cowards just continually give me false hope. Its humiliating.
Betsy
God fucking dammit. I suppose it’s only coincidence that she declares this on the same day that SCOTUS decided that politicians will need to be pushed further down into the pockets of corporations.
dr. bloor
@Karmakin:
Disagree on the jobs bill part. It will certainly include a bunch of shit that’s distasteful to us, but something will pass. When unemployment hits 10%, it’s not limited to poor people with dark skin, it’s probably one of your neighbors as well. And red turf is getting ripped just as hard as blue turf on this.
Rock
And the descent to a third-world nation continues.
I have to say I found one year of a Democratic administration unsatisfying — I hoping for longer (4 years? was that too much to ask?).
What’s the point of electing Democrats if they think they need to govern like Republicans?
It makes me think the Democratic party is kept around just to provide the illusion of choice in what is truly a one-party state.
freelancer
My plan worked about as well as theirs:
1. Call Lee Terry (R-NE), and let him know that I will be heavily involved in the campaign of his Democratic Challenger.
2. Ingest copious amounts of alcohol.
3. ??????????????????????
4. House passes Senate Bill and sents it to Obama.
scudbucket
@Xantar: That’s the way I read it too. She’s forcing the Senate’s hand here, see if/what she’ll get from reconciliation.
Tomlinson
I want to see an up or down vote. Let’s see these assholes go on actual record for or against, rather than slinking around in back rooms.
Fuck them all, each and every one.
beltane
This country has fallen and it can’t get up. I don’t recall the f@@king Republicans shutting down like this when Jim Jeffords switched parties. Martha Coakley should be the Democrats’ new mascot.
Michael
Best Kos post ever.
I’m eagerly awaiting the FDL progressive plan with bated breath.
Hiram Taine
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.
It’s the only way to be sure.
PeterJ
I’m sorry, but our next overlords will be Chinese. The Congress is FUBAR.
Kryptik
When one Congressional seat so horribly alters your plans to the point you shovel everything, you fucking don’t deserve to be in power.
Fuck you, Democratic Party. Thanks for fucking nothing.
Basilisc
Today America officially became ungovernable. It’s Weimar time. But with a lot less decadent fucking.
Frannie
If Democrats cannot pass health care reform under these conditions (60 senators, 255+ House seats, an AMA endorsement, and a new president), no voter should ever listen to a Democrat promising health care reform again. They had their chance, and they couldn’t govern and couldn’t deliver.
These spineless hacks aren’t worthy of anyone’s support.
Legalize
Fuck the Dems. And fuck this country and its lazy, stupid, easily scared, and easily misled inhabitants (present company excluded). This is probably just the frustration talking right now.
Matt
If health care reform dies, I’m staying home this November. If they don’t want to work for me and everyone else who put them in position to win, fuck ’em. They don’t deserve to be there.
Fergus Wooster
I hate to be melodramatic, but I’m starting to wonder if we really are done as a country. Completely ungovernable, except in the sense of wholesale graft.
The SCOTUS decision could officially enshrine this – corporations fund politicians who then open the treasury for said corporations to loot treasury (and call it free enterprise), then reinvest a modest portion of the loot into their politicians.
Absent Chinese credit, we’d be Yeltsin’s Russia in no-time. Then bring on the demagogues.
EdTheRed
Seriously, I’m fucking Teabagger unhinged lunatic pissed off right now. Like, I’m ready to start shipping salt to congressmen and playing dead in the halls of Congress. I wish I didn’t live in DC, ‘cuz if I had a Rep of my own, I’d damn sure show up at whatever townhall they had next and curse and wail and gnash my teeth like a winger. Then I’d post it up on the youtubes and blog about how the Angry Left is tired of losing its country, and we’re coming to take it back.
Amy
Call Pelosi and tell her it’s her job to get the votes (202) 225-0100
Then call back your reps and ask to speak to the legislative assistant.
Then recruit a few friends to do the same.
Also, call the White House and tell them they need to pressure the House and we want leadership from Obama.
Chyron HR
Wow. It’s a good thing Congress only spent half a year on this bill, or people might think it was a big waste of time.
Karmakin
@dr. bloor: The jobs that will be created by a jobs bill will be largely (entirely? pretty close) blue collar jobs.
Like it or not the currently targeted voting block, the middle/upper class swing voter, WILL heavily oppose this because they’ll see it as giving people money to sit around.
Fern
@Michael: Last I saw they were rejoicing that this could mean that the public option was back on the table.
PeakVT
Its done. No HCR for my working life.
No, it will still happen. But now it’s not going to happen before health care costs bankrupt the country and hundreds of thousands of people die prematurely because they lack insurance.
Tomlinson
What we are learning here is that Martha Coakley is, in fact, a model democrat.
GregB
Well, at least we’ll be able to read Bible verses off of the gun barrels when we are lined up against the wall in the great Glenn Beckian purges of 2012.
-G
jeffreyw
@mcd410x: 2d that motion
PeterJ
What was the plan of the republicans? Making healthcare Obama’s Waterloo? Looks like they are succeeding. And we got a lot of weak democrats in congress to thank for that.
Kryptik
@Amy:
If all this has taught me anything, it’s that we fucking don’t account for shit. No one in Washington listens to us or cares about us. Teabaggers, yes. Radical Christian nutjobs, yes. Bankers and Corporations, yes. But us? The ‘liberal base’? The people who actually like to see more people happy and successful rather than kicked in the nuts by institutional ratfuckery?
Who gives a shit about us.
Fuck it, it’s done. Gimmie a gun, a poster, and a teabagger hat. At least switching sides will spare me the psychological pain of being an American Liberal.
BR
Well, here’s a way of looking at it – congress did the teabaggers’ bidding when they were frothing with anger – they backed down on HCR, at least for a while.
So if we call with that sort of frothing anger at their incompetence and tell them to pass the fucking thing or else, maybe they’ll listen. Maybe Tim F. has a point about squeaky wheels. Maybe we need to give up the notion that reasoned debate is the answer.
BTD
Excuse me? all Pelosi said is she can not pass the Senate bill STAND ALONE. She needs the reconciliation fix.
So tell me then. Is Balloon Juice’s activism in favor of the STAND ALONE Senate bill with no fixes?
Is Balloon Juice against the companion reconciliation bill?
Well then, there is a complete lack of political reality here. The unions are demanding from the progressive Dems that a fix be done. The Dem need the unions for November. It is not realistic to expect progressive Dems to piss off the unions in this tough election environment.
mcd410x
a) I made a wonderful lentil and wheat berry soup last weekend. Good stuff.
b) Imagine if this crew had been in charge during the Great Depression: We’d all be ___________ (insert your country of choice here)!
c) I’m thinking an adobo chipotle-lime pork for this weekend … mmm.
Kryptik
@BR:
Because that worked for the Iraq War runup….wait, what?
No, we’re voiceless, because they don’t want to pay attention to DFHs.
Dave Fud
You need a Democratic pants on the ground tag.
And it should be applied to all Democratic initiatives until further notice.
Why did I give these jackasses money again? Why did I call for them, knock for them, convince my acquaintances for them.
I may have been a Charlie Brown, but I have other things I could do. My pants don’t have to be on the ground with the Democratic party’s pants.
p.a.
The Democratic Party has majorities in the House and Senate greater than the R’s have had since Herbert F’in Hoover. And are paralyzed. Change the donkey symbol to a jellyfish. No wonder the teabaggers want to blow up the Republican Party; the Dems are no threat at all. I don’t think there’s a word in English to express the depth of my disgust.
New Yorker
I have a sneaking suspicion that my Congresswoman, Nydia Velazquez, would be one to vote against the Senate bill because it’s too far to the right, so I gave her office a call and very calmly and sternly told the staffer that I want the Senate bill passed.
BR
@Kryptik:
Well we’ve tried reasoned and unreasoned debate while in the minority, and it didn’t work. (Iraq, etc.)
We’ve tried reasoned debate while in the majority and that didn’t work either. So what we have left is unreasoned debate while in the majority…
jrg
I don’t think the Dems are smart enough to figure out that if they don’t pass it, next year the media and the GOP will make the mid-term elections a referendum on how we almost passed a HCR bill that was going to mandate forced abortions for all white babies and executions for anyone over 55 years old.
Kryptik
@Dave Fud:
‘Democrat = Showing Your Ass’. Because that’s all that Democrats seem to do now. Show their ass and run away.
danimal
Well, I suppose we’ll get a chance to test out the Hamsher hypothesis now. Now that this HCR bill is dead, I’m sure the progressive caucus has the votes lined up to pass a better bill with single payer and magical fairy dust that cures all diseases.
Just let me know when that bill passes and I’ll eat all the crow you can feed me. Better happen before the end of this congressional session, because the Dem majority is gone, daddy, gone in November.
chopper
@Michael:
yeah, thanks for that one, guys. the ‘i wannit and i’ll take my ball and go home if i can’t get it’ shtick really worked, didn’t it.
Bill H
@Tomlinson:
I appreciate the sentiment, and have been known to utter the same, but…
With the two-party system, the public has a really hard time, short of revolution, of changing that government. Electing the “other party” into power is obviously not the solution, third party is not even close to viable, so where do we go?
A concerted effort to dump all incumbents, regardless of party, would be constructive, I think. Get every voter to work in unison and in one election year elect 435 brand new Representatives and 33 brand new Senators. But is there any real chance of that happening?
Corporate interests have a firm grip on politicians of all stripes. We don’t deserve that, really.
slag
@BTD:
So, then, we’re totally screwed. We can’t get the Senate to pass anything at this point. Our only hope is having the House pass the bill. And if that’s not going to happen, we’re screwed. Game over. Yay we lose!
mrmobi
Wow. Everyone here seems to be turned off by the sausage-making process. For myself, I think John Scalzi has it right:
<q cite=”Ten months ago, everyone assumed the GOP was doomed for several political cycles.
Ten months before that, there was still a chance Hillary Clinton would have been the next president of the United States, and no one outside of Alaska had heard of Sarah Palin.
Which is to say that a lot can happen in ten months. No one should get cocky, no one should feel doomed, and no one should be under the impression that any prediction that make now will have any relation to what happens in November. The only prediction I do feel confident in making is: the next ten months should be interesting.”
Bill E Pilgrim
@mcd410x:
I think it could become an all-animals, all-the-time blog with very little remodeling at all. A little snip, cut, edit, and dog’s your uncle.
scudbucket
@BTD: I agree. What happened to the reality-based community?
Rick Taylor
__
I’m more worried about the moves for fiscal responsibility. We’ve seen this played out before; Democrats get into power, suddenly deficits are the worst thing in the world, they have to responsible and put off luxuries like health care for sick. Democrats indeed respond, the deficit begins to stable, then a Republican comes in and spends it all and then some on tax cuts for the rich and a shiny new war. Rinse and repat.
celticdragon
@Hiram Taine:
We have some cannisters of CN-20
Nerve gas the whole fucking nest.
/s
lmf
just sit in nov.
Mark S.
As stupid as that provision is, it should be remembered that before the ink is dry on the bill, there will be 49 lawsuits against it and it will be declared unconstitutional before the year is out. Granted, this isn’t the ideal way to do it, but that’s legislating in our thoroughly fucked up system.
celticdragon
@p.a.:
Hear, hear.
Liberty60
I called My Rep., and Pelosi’s office.
I also joined Moveon.org for no other reason than to DO SOMETHING.
We need to start having our own Tea Parties, and getting traction.
Even if this battle is lost, we are in a long war. We have to get angry, get organized, get moving.
Rick Taylor
I do agree with BTD though; things look grim, but it’s just a little too early to declare defeat (and aren’t we angry with Democrats who are doing the same thing?).
__
Atrios, the quintessential DFH, hasn’t quite given up hope.
Robin G.
@mrmobi: I’m not prepared to say that the Democrats are fucked forever (okay, yes, I’m saying that, but it’s emotionally driven), but I think all clear-eyed analysis has to say that if the Senate bill dies, we won’t see a second shot at health care reform for another ten years, minimum. And that alone is worth crying about.
PeterJ
How about starting it by holding a couple of congressional democrats over the fire until their skin get a bit more hardened?
Yossarian
I’m not an “activist” in the classic sense of the term, and I don’t have my own blog. I am not a bagger of any kind, Tea or Fire. I am a professional political operative in Washington DC who tries to elect Democrats for a living. I have spent many late nights and many early mornings working for people and causes I believed in, and I’ve moved to faraway cities away from my friends and loved ones for low pay in order to get people elected who I thought at the very least shared my instincts for moving the country forward.
And if the House doesn’t pass health care, modified in reconciliation or not, because Scott Brown beat Martha Coakley, I am fucking done. That is it. To see my party abandon the most important domestic goal of the past fifty-odd years right as it sits on the one-yard line because Blue Dogs took a fraidy-pee and progressives took a snit is more than I frankly can handle. It’s awful to feel as if my professional and personal commitments have been so cavalierly pissed on because of overreaction to some colossal stiff beating a shitty candidate in my home state.
celticdragon
@Fergus Wooster:
Some very smart lawyers at Balkinization have been opining that the Constitution is effectively broken.
I tend to agree.
celticdragon
@Robin G.:
I’m in the pool for twenty years.
Bill H
@New Yorker:
Hobsen’s choice. What I want is for Congress to do its job and conference the two bills and pass what represents the will of both houses. The Senate bill sucks. But look at what Congress has done to us.
I guess it’s like the woman who’s husband is beating her and blames herself for pissing him off. She just wants it to stop, and anything she has to do, no matter how demeaning and costly to make it stop is okay, just to survive. She deserves to have a husband who loves her but, tragically, she’ll settle for one that doesn’t beat her too badly.
So we’ll take the shit sandwich that the Senate deems is what we deserve.
Amy
Next call: Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
(202) 863-1500
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@BTD:
I’m as pissed off as everyone else, but BTD is talking sense here. This isn’t over – what this news means is that the House and Senate are playing a high stakes game of chicken with each other, because their respective Dem members have different electoral needs heading into 2010.
FWIW, I favor trying to get fixes in reconcilation but if necessary passing the Senate bill unchanged except for the anti-abortion part (that is the line in the sand I won’t cross), and dealing with the rest of the health care mess in a stand alone bill in the next Congress. Elkins Act, Hepburn Act, bitchez!
Woodbuster
@BTD: Okay, I just looked out the window and didn’t see any flying pigs. However, I am not sur that they aren’t above the cloud cover, because I agree with BTD. (Oooh. I just threw up a little in my mouth!)
It ain’t over until it’s over. I will be the first one saying “Fuck The Democrats!” and start buiding my Costa Rica fund if they fail on this bill, but I ain’t giving up yet. I think Pelosi is negotiating in public.
Cap'n Phealy
What’s the over/under on how long Obama gets into the SOTU before some Republican yahoo heckles him? And which yahoo will it be?
Jon
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: hear, hear. I refuse to believe it’s dead.
celticdragon
Paul Krugman today on Obama.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/he-wasnt-the-one-weve-been-waiting-for/
danimal
@Yossarian: This
cat48
No, financial reform with the Volcker Law or Rule will pass I think if the 59 don’t wimp out because John McCain wants Glass-Stegall reinstated. Maybe he will go along w/Volcker Law.
Obama has got to be pissed about health care so I don’t expect him to sit back quietly while the Dodd/Shelby show try to destroy the Consumer Protection Agency he wants along w/financial reform. He sent that bill to the House last June & they just passed it last month after the lobbyists & Blue Dogs rewrote it.
“Things are going to get real mean now.” Trying to remember what movie that quote is from. Might have been a Western.
Nick
@Bill H: Every system is a two party system…in parliamentary systems they’re just called coalitions.
Douglas
Seeing that we lost the 60 seat majority, and there’s quite some wiggle room to the 50 seat majority (not like it means much anymore when republicans are in the minority)… can we start primarying Nelson, Lieberman and their friends now?
Maybe we lose some seats, maybe we don’t, but at least the next time something like healthcare comes along their spiritual successors will remember that showing the finger to the rest of the party (and their base, not to mention their constituents) on something this important comes with a price as well.
D-Chance.
People, people, people… relax.
Fergus Wooster
@celticdragon:
I’d call for a new Convention, but I’m reasonably confident it would result in the United States of Jesusland, with American Taliban fundamentalism as our established religion and a Senate appointed by our bankster betters.
Gen
If Pelosi’s negotiating in public she’s dumber than snot becuase she just lost most of the people who worked to elect democrats. I’ve unsubscribed from every email list I’ve ever been on for donating money. I’ll be darned if I make another phone call to get cussed out by some 80 year old witch screaming I was cutting her oxygen line by trying to pass HCR.
Corner Stone
@Michael:
Really? This is the pathetic place you’ve decided to land on?
jcricket
@celticdragon: I’d say 20 is about right. But between now and then I expect “deficit reduction” to lead to more tax cuts for the rich, a gutting of Social Security and Medicaid and a large spate of infrastructure failures.
Even when we do pass something remotely sensible for (say) HCR it’ll still be funded regressively, or barely funded at all.
As places like Haiti show you, people are willing to put up with all kinds of existence when they have no money to move. That’s the future for the poor and middle class in this country. Ever-more crushing poverty, crumbling schools, no access to healthcare outside the ER, no retirement security at all, and probably higher sales, gas and other regressive taxes (at best).
Until the minorities become the majority this is what we face. Or, the miracle occurs and the poor whites get together with the minorities (while chucking their racism, xenophobia, homophobia and tax-phobia) and at least stop voting for Republicans.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m still going to vote, and vote for Democrats. The alternative is far, far worse – at least I can stave off utter disaster by keeping a few Dems around. But I’m done giving to anyone that’s not an Alan-Grayson type, or a real liberal. Blue Dogs, the DNC, the DSCC, etc. can all FOAD.
cat48
They are bitching on TV because Obama crashed the Dow 200 pts again. “These new restrictions are going to be so hard on the banks!” Wahhh Wahhh
Mark S.
@Tomlinson:
I don’t think we deserve this dysfunctional of a government. It’s the fucking filibuster, or more precisely, what that abortion has devolved into in the last several years. It is virtually impossible to get sixty votes for anything.
I wish the Republicans would have nuked it back in 2005; God knows the Democrats are too pussy to do so.
jcricket
@Douglas: We don’t need to primary these guys. Nelson, Lincoln and Landrieu are toast. They will be replaced by Republicans, probably very conservative ones. Hell, even McCain faces a serious conservative primary challenger.
Lieberman will probably become a Republican and then either not run again, or be replaced by a real Democrat.
The era of the Blue Dogs is probably over. To be replaced by an increased number of hardcore Republicans in states that are becoming redder and a small number of moderate Democrats in states that are becoming bluer.
The era of partisanship is just beginning, imho.
Woodbuster
@Gen: Not if those same people read the whole goddam statement she made, rather than just the snippet saying she hasn’t got the votes. Unless, of course, those people are just looking for an excuse to set their hair on fire or play dead.
For example, this from Greg Sargeant: “The key is that Pelosi said the bill can’t pass the House “at this time” or “right now.” What’s more, this doesn’t address another possibility being studied by House leaders right now: Passing the Senate bill while simultaneously creating a mechanism that would make it possible, or even mandatory, to fix the bill later through reconciliation, meaning those fixes would only require 51 votes in the Senate.”
If such a mechanism were created, it might — repeat, might — induce enough House Dems to reconsider, making it possible for them to pass the Senate bill. No one knows how feasible such a mechanism would be. But it’s being studied as we speak.”
It ain’t over yet.
Yossarian
It’s depressing as hell to realize that the most prescient, accurate piece of media to describe our country’s direction was “The Wire.” Things will not change, our institutions are broken, our leadership has neither the will nor the intelligence to fix them, and we are engaged in a full-on national sprint toward oligarchy (done in the name of populism, no less). The only comfort is knowing that I have a full bottle of Scotch sitting at home waiting for me.
Mark S.
I wonder why I tripped the spam filter. We can still say the f-word, right?
edit: never mind
Rick Taylor
Unfortunately, that Monty Python sketch just came into my head.
__
Health Care: “I’m not dead yet!”
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@jcricket:
I agree. The Great Unmixing (i.e. the roughly 100 year long process between 1912 and 2008 whereby the Dem and Rep bases swapped regional and cultural identity) is more or less complete. Time for Civil War 2.0 (or 3.0 if you believe Kevin Phillips’ hypothesis that the Revolutionary War was also a civil war within the US). The structural barriers that used to hold back the full expression of tribalistic hatred expressed via partisan political agitprop have melted away.
Fergus Wooster
@Yossarian: This.
It was a shame watching Obama follow the Carcetti arc, especially given his supposed enthusiasm for The Wire.
I propose Lieberman as Clay Davis (sheeeeeee-iiiit).
Comrade Luke
@PeakVT:
And it will be done by Republicans. I’ve been saying this for years but no one listens: eventually the system will get so fucked up that company profits will be crippled across the board. At that point Republicans save the day for their corporate contributors. And btw, if you think the current HCR proposals suck ass, wait until you see what we get from the Republican plan.
It’s a great day for America everybody!
Tsulagi
Not yet, I’d say more like life support. Seems Pelosi was careful to add “at this time.” Followed by…
Think what Pelosi may have been saying is House members aren’t going to have their asses hanging out in wind passing the piece of shit Senate bill unless the Senate sacks up passing companion reconciliation at least tweaking the excise tax. Now, not later. Maybe recognizing her members wouldn’t give a lot of weight to a Senate promise they’d get right on it, or that they’d even be able to push limited reconciliation through.
Could you blame her? Later this year her members could be out fighting for their seats with a lot of traditional support like unions pissed at them while the Senate, months later, once again is trying to get Olympia Snowe’s support. Even though they don’t need it. While Snowe is still telling them they need to slow down the process. The House has seen this dance.
But have faith, PhRMA and AHIP want this bill, there will be arm twisting.
Kryptik
Banking on reconciliation is fine and dandy, until you see Blue Dogs like Evan Bayh telegraphing that he and that not so significant chunk of Blue Dogs are willing to take the ball back and score an own goal just to spite their team.
With the Dems morally crippled and willing to buckle because of one seat, I’m not even sure reconciliation would be possible.
Unless someone can show me someone in the senate actually willing to consider it and say damn the Lieberhacks, Nelsons, and Braying Bayh, i still can’t see a way we’re not fucked.
jcricket
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: You and I are in agreement. I think the only thing that will stave off the “war” is: laziness (on all our parts); minorities on a very fast pace to become the majority.
And they’re becoming the majority not just in “liberal” places like Seattle or Berkeley, but across Texas, and in the major population centers in the mountain west, etc.
Sure, you have 10 states that will be Republican forever, but there are 35 that will probably become solidly blue in the next 20 years (assuming parties continue on their existing platforms/trajectories – which is a big assumption). And maybe 5 swing-ish states left. 35
>15.Yeah, in those blue states you’ll have divisions (see WA state, for example), but we’ll outnumber “them” – so they can bitch and moan all they want.
scudbucket
@Fergus Wooster: I hate to be melodramatic, but I’m starting to wonder if we really are done as a country. Completely ungovernable, except in the sense of wholesale graft.
No snark here, but that’s exactly how I felt when the Senate bill passed. The only upside was hoping that the Dems could close the deal and survive the midterms.
Joel
She’s saying “get pumped”
I’m calling McDermott.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@jcricket:
I don’t expect an actual 19th-20th cen style war. More like sporadic poorly organized grass roots violence driven by social discontent – something like a mix of 1960s style urban riots and 1990s style right wing militias and domestic terrorist groups, with a corresponding set of heavy handed govt repression and counter-terrrorism actions in response. I think the “Patriot” Act under Bush was crafted with this sort of future in mind, as a tool for domestic repression which would become necessary for the P.T.B.’s to put down populist anger.
And this won’t be a passing thing like the riots during the 1960s. I expect a prolonged period (i.e. several decades) of partisan hatred and low level violence until one of the parties is able to cross the lines of the dominant cultural blocs in the US to poach from the base of the other party (which is what the Dems did starting in the 1912 election after the GOP split between progressives and conservatives, and then extended under FDR).
jcricket
You know – now that I’ve calmed down a tiny bit, I see a glimmer of hope in our future. I know all the states are bankrupt, but MA passed universal healthcare, and now it’s working pretty good – I doubt it’ll get repealed, even with the funding problems. People like it too much, and Democrats are “too” in charge there.
I could see states like WA and CA (and even OR, CO, MD) etc doing the same thing.
Note I said “could see” not “will definitely see” – as the approach to the current recession in these states seems to be running screaming towards revenue cuts and Armageddon for social services.
If the federal government is incapable of doing basically anything that benefits people, perhaps the states can get together and pass their own shitty, expensive versions of stuff, at least as a start.
This is not an argument in favor of the “laboratory of the states” or whatever BS conservatives always peddle. But I can see a situation where the liberal populations within states do rise up and demand services and benefits, and are willing to pay for them (at least a little) – even if that’s way less efficient and beneficial than having the entire US with a single system.
gypsy howell
@Fergus Wooster:
I’m in the middle of Season 5 right now, so no spoilers please! I’ve been escaping into the entire 5-season DVD set of The Wire over the last few weeks, because real life is way too depressing.
I feel like Going Omar on our elected officials (not to mention 5 of our SCOTUSes) at the moment.
matoko_chan
Dude….are we all two-digits now?
Think about why Pelosi would say she doesn’t have the votes in the House.
Could it POSSIBLY be that she knows Reid has 51 votes for the public option in the House bill IN THE SENATE?
Pelosi WANTS the public option, membah?
Do you honestly think that she has had time to poll all 258 votes and dicker about suasion and all that in 24 HOURS?
man…take a chill pill.
suzanne
I don’t know about any of you, but two wetsuits and a dildo actually sounds a lot more pleasant right now.
God.
I need a drink.
Xecky Gilchrist
Called UT Rep. Matheson (nominal D). Staffer stammered about waiting until he reads the bill. I pointed out that I remembered very well that he voted for the Stupidak amendment and then against the house bill, and asked if he planned to give us any reason not to vote for an actual republican.
Chris Andersen
What Dana doesn’t understand is that, at this critical moment, every word uttered by the leadership matters. If they hedge, if they sound hesitant, if they use words like maybe and tough going, then everyone will interpret that as throwing in the towel.
It doesn’t matter if that is what is meant, that is what will be heard.
Perception is reality.
Chris Andersen
@Robin G.:
It’s the unforced error (Coakley losing) leading to a total meltdown of the offense. I hate it when my favorite teams do that.
Aside: I’m a Trailblazer fan and one thing I love about the blazers this year is they don’t wilt in the face of adversity (and lord have they suffered it this year). They double down. They fight even harder. And they win much more often then a team with half their starting lineup on the sidelines nursing their injuries should expect.
celticdragon
@jcricket:
Yep. All the worst parts of Robert Kaplans essays in
“The Coming Anarchy”
Fergus Wooster
@gypsy howell:
We truly lack an Omar. We could use one – “I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase, but hey, it’s all in the game, right?”
Plenty of Davises, Marimows, Rawls and Burrells though.
Comrade Scrutinizer
What a bunch of drama queens! Swear to god, the lot of you sound like the PMDs, talking about the advent of the Anti-Christ and The End of The World as We Know it. All you’re missing is the fucking Jesus-Is-Gonna-Lift-Me-Right-To-Heaven Rapture.
Chad N Freude
@celticdragon: Yes, but
I think he got the “ours” on the wrong side of the bifurcation.
lol chikinburd
@Chris Andersen:
Don’t know why the Nuggets still have you on their bench for spelling Martin and Nene, then.
I’d like to believe Pelosi has some non-public knowledge that suggested a reconciliation approach would actually even get 50 votes, and wasn’t just seeking cover for her caucus members for the eventuality of HCR’s wholesale failure. Our moral imperative not to give up requires that we act on the assumption that she does. Still, it’d be nice to have more substantive encouragement that that’s the case than we’ve gotten thus far.
matoko_chan
May I just say…..
i tole you so.
matoko_chan
Oh, im sure Reid has the votes for reconciliation…..we just dont know if Reid has the votes for the public option.
Now that is interesting….Obama could use this on anti-public-option moderates like Snowe to get their vote.
Perhaps even on Brown.
:)