Those of you who feel confident to let Democrats play n-dimensional chess on health care need to read Josh Marshall’s front page. No particular post, just scan the whole thing from bottom to top. The message from all over DC is that Dems have no idea what to do right now. They’re terrified and adrift. This idea that leaders are calmly pushing pieces around a sand table is insane.
Take Barney Frank. Last night he declared that the whole enchilada was cooked and we might as well give up. That’s like a startled alpha deer running into a tree and knocking itself out. Way to lead the herd. Frank defended himself repeatedly to baffled constituents and then he walked the story back almost a full day later. If Frank is one of our best, I hate to imagine how the rest of our caucus feels.
Don’t call a Congressperson because he or she will turn around and do what we say (if you’re new at this, they won’t). We should call because the caucus will meet tomorrow and probably a few more times after that, and then the Democratic majority will have a plan. Maybe the plan will involve fighting like hell to get HCR done before some other stupid thing happens, but it seems a little Charlie Brownish to feel confident about Dems doing anything that productive. If Reps show up buzzing about noisy supporters demanding HCR then we stand a slightly better chance than if they show up dwelling on their usual phobias turned up to eleven.
At least that’s my view. Small chance of having a meaningful impact, etc. etc.. At least it vents the frustration better than yelling at pseudonyms on an internetblog.
Mnemosyne
Okay, that made me LOL. I’ll call Schiff tomorrow.
General Winfield Stuck
There is really only one person to call that can make this happen. If Nancy Pelosi wants it to bad enough, it will likely occur, but will be close. Though it never hurts to let your rep know how one of his/her constituents feel. Especially on something this consequential. I called mine today, Harry Teague, the dude isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, and is likely a one termer as the Little Texas SE quadrant of NM is lousy with tea baggers. Not where I live in SW part of the state though. We are lousy with artsy fartsy artista’s most of which sport dreadlocks and pine for a Kucinich presidency. I love it here, with a passion.
jwb
Technical question: Do only the DC office calls count or can we call their local numbers as well?
Dennis-SGMM
My rep is David Dreier so I think that I’ll just save my breath.
cat48
Ok, I’ll pretend I live in the district & call Barney Frank using a map. You really don’t want me to call the 3 Repug losers from SC again, do you? Anyone else you would like to target? I did this successfully when I targeted the sponsors of the Birther Bill. They emailed me back.
Fern
@General Winfield Stuck: I think Pelosi wants it bad.
Mnemosyne
@Fern:
I hope you’re right, because Pelosi is the one Democrat we can count on to get shit done. The House passed their health care bill two freakin’ months ago.
Emma Anne
I said it before, but thanks again for this, Tim. I did call my rep and the aide took careful notes, which makes me think they are at least listening.
General Winfield Stuck
@Fern: Then we could be in business. But it still will be very close, I think
Rock
Honestly, I think Pelosi might be the most competent Dem in a leadership position. If the fate of HCR reform is on her, at least there’s a chance it could happen.
Emma Anne
How about putting up a poll to see how many people called?
General Winfield Stuck
@Rock: Yes, and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to hear people say that. Back when all the torture briefing nonsense was breaking, I got flamed by progs to no end on other blogs defending her.
Dollared
Wow, I am so with you on the Barney Frank thing.
Look, they knew for a week that Brown could win. Couldn’t somebody in the White House have drawn up, I dunno, maybe a PLAN? Maybe some TALKING POINTS? And then, I don’t know, SHARED THEM WITH THE CAUCUS and call me crazy, EVEN A FEW SURROGATES? How much does Lanny Davis cost?
I watch this disaster and seriously wonder. Seriously. What happens if there was some sort of Taiwan/China provocation? A popular uprising in Saudi Arabia? These guys appear to be prepared for – nothing.
I started out wanting to write a post about being frustrated that all of the Democratic elite does not seem to remember that they are fighting for 150 million people who have stagnated for 30 years and need their children to have a shot at college if our country is to be strong again. Now I really think – people this incompetent really should be glad they left DOD in the hands of a Republican. Because these guys suck so bad it’s a national security issue.
Joey Maloney
“We are all Jane Hamsher now.” –TBogg
Nimed
Yeah yeah, the n-dimensional chess. If Obama is Jesus-Kasparov, than I guess I’m fucking St. Thomas, and am pretty convinced Deep Blue kicked his ass fair and square. Ok, bad analogy. But consider this:
The House, the last chance to pass HCL, is wavering and sending mixed signals about voting for/against the bill. We all agree on this. And this is what Obama has to say to Stephanopoulos:
and
and
Cole and a lot of others were “reassured” by this interview, because Obama “gets it”, speaks eloquently and is not GWB. But, to me, it sure looks like he is not pressing the House to pass the Senate bill. If anything, he’s telling them not to.
What’s reassuring about that?
mcd410x
Spielberg and Lucas were raping a stormtrooper when the police broke in.
mcd410x
Yay, it took 12 comments to commence the hippie bashing!
Is is parody or self-parody at this point? I can’t tell.
Jim
@General Winfield Stuck: Honestly, I think Pelosi might be the most competent Dem in a leadership position. If the fate of HCR reform is on her, at least there’s a chance it could happen.
Oh, lord, remember when she made her horrifically realistic comment that “impeachment is off the table”. It shouldn’t have been, but it was. She shouldn’t have said it, but it was true. You would have thought her saying it was the reason it didn’t happen.
General Winfield Stuck
@mcd410x: Why thank you. I like to be first.
Jim
@Dollared:
One reach-around from or for Sean Hannity. Neither is picky about it.
Was that over the top? I’m kinda new here, and +3.
Mark S.
I don’t know if this has been brought up on one of the hundred or so threads on this issue, but we could be in trouble from everyone’s favorite Family member from Michigan:
I realize the five vote margin was because Pelosi let some of these guys vote against it once she had 218, but geez this is going to be extremely close!
schaudenfraud
It’s weird, I currently live in Pete Sessions district (not a chance in hell a call would make a bit of difference), but will be moving literally a few blocks down the same street to Eddie Bernice Johnson’s district (member of the progressive caucus) in February. Think it’s worth a shot to call her (certainty couldn’t hurt)? Also what do you do? Ask for the rep or just start into your spiel as soon as someone pick sup the phone (I’m young, gave to a political campaign for the first time with Obama, and if the House can just pass the senate bill I’m in it for the next cycle, volunteering/donations etc. etc.). Thanks everybody!
Mark S.
@Jim:
At this place? That was a G-rated comment.
cmorenc
When it takes MONTHS for the President, the Senate Majority Leader, and the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee to figure out that:
1) the Republicans early on unanimously adopted the deju-vu 1984 strategy for returning to power, and NONE of them want to do anything to help any sort of HCR to pass for which the dems or Obama might get positive credit, or to help Obama succeed at ANYTHING. Any appearance of willingness to negotiate was simply a stall tactic to buy time to sow disinformation and discontent by any means within the media and electorate;
2) Joe Lieberman, who went to the GOP convention and spoke to support John McCain (and campaigned for him) is a duplitious vengeful vain backstabbing weasel who could be trusted for only one thing: he’ll seize any available leverage or podium to screw over the Democrats (especially progressives).
GEEZ LOUISE. If Obama and Reid couldn’t figure even that out for so long, how the hell are they going to figure out Putin? the Chinese? the Iranians? and so on.
jwb
@General Winfield Stuck: I’m more optimistic than you on this because I think the dems have at last come to recognize that they screwed the pooch with HCR. They’re now in a position where all options carry substantial downside risk, especially sitting around fiddling while the country burns. And I really don’t think the goopers will be smart enough to give a little at this moment to gain traction in a negotiation they could then drag out to kill it off while keeping it in the headlines. So I think the Dems will conclude that getting the senate bill through with reconcilliation fixes to win labor and the other votes they need, especially if done reasonably quickly, is their best path out of the wilderness. Then they need another issue to divert attention and get people thinking bad thoughts about the goopers.
Jim
@Mark S.:
There was, I believe, more than one Dem who voted against it because of the public option– Murphy, NY, Minnick-ID, Edwards-TX. and a couple who voted against it b/c it wasn’t liberal enough. Maybe the former will get on board with the Senate version, and the patron saint of 2% will want to save some lives rather than take a pointless stand.
I always ask if the ‘critter has made a decision on X, and then say that I hope he (mine’s a he) will support or oppose. I’ve never gotten into what kind of support I give, or may give, ’cause it feels a little wrong to me, for some reason.
schaudenfraud
Also, apropos of nothing, a photo from the protests at Eddie Bernice Johnson’s office I took during the Baucus break this summer.
http://www.twitpic.com/z18pu
Jim
@schaudenfraud:
Ah, Madison is weeping with pride, somewhere.
jwb
@Dollared: I agree and it’s actually a little odd because one of Obama’s fortes in the campaign was that he always seemed to have a plan B.
General Winfield Stuck
@jwb: I do hope you are right.
eemom
Krugman. Ouch.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/he-wasnt-the-one-weve-been-waiting-for/
General Winfield Stuck
@eemom: Krugman should stay away from politics. He bounces around like he’s made of Flubber.
Ailuridae
@eemom:
Also that’s the same article that caused Cole to freak out earlier here: https://balloon-juice.com/?p=32904. You can read that thread to understand more about the problems with that article but, in short, there isn’t a whole lot to suggest that the White House wants any new bill introduced.
Comrade Luke
I think a lot of this might have a simple explanation, ie the people in Congress now have had it so easy for so long that now that they really have to legislate they have no idea wtf to do.
Yutsano
@Comrade Luke: They were completely neutered under Bush II so all they had to do was rubber stamp whatever he proposed and it happened. The Democrats didn’t do enough obstruction then, but now it’s like they totally forgot they actually MAKE laws, not get led around like little ducklings.
Fitzwili
I called this morning and told Frank’s office that it was political suicide to not do whatever it takes to pass HCR. I was very very explicit in detailing my displeasure and let the office know I am a Move On, ActBlue,lefty who donates locally and nationally to Dem. canidates.But what is the point of all my activity if the Dems can’t pass their agenda with 59 senators and a healthy house majority?
At that point, Frank’s office didn’t realize that there was something posted at TPM that detailed his objections to taking action. The woman who answered the phone sounded taken back when I told her what was on TPM- I got several other people to call Frank’s office – I do think the calls helped a bit. I think Rep. Weiner should be next on the list for targeted calls- tell the office it doesn’t matter if you are a constituent or not- these men are making decisions that impact every American .
The Raven
AOL! By Odin! Get ’em out out there, get ’em moving.
The Raven
@Dollared:
We’re marching, we’re fighting. The Democrats are only the standard bearers, and they are staggering.
tammanycall
Practical/strategy question(s): do you think it’s better to call the state/district office or the Washington office? Should I still call even if I’m in one of the bluest districts/states in the country?
Fitzwili
@tammanycall
I would call the Washington office first- and some of the holdouts are the progressive Reps. – so ALL Reps. are in danger of chickening out- so I think calling helps even if you are in a blue state!
I would also call Pelosi and some of the other leaders- even if you are not in their district- we need to make noise to be heard.
Jim
I call both, sometimes a third. I suspect they just mark calls (pro/con) on a tally sheet anyway.
Yes, your rep will be going into the caucus meeting, and depending on hir rank/personality/seniority, may say “my office got 17,000 calls in favor of….”
Watching TDS/Colbert. I swear, never mind Coakley going on vacation, if these two hadn’t gone on Xmas vacation, Brown would’ve been hash (25% serious). FoxNews don’t go on vacation.
cmorenc
@jwb
REALLY?
– See: Sens. Grassley and Snowe perform a tag-team drag-out match in the Senate Finance Committee precisely to give appearance of trying to negotiate toward a workable bipartisan compromise, while their actual goal was to stall to give as much time as possible for the other GOOPers and enablers (like FauxNews) to spread disinformation and inflammation about HCR. Once it FINALLY many weeks late burned through Reid and Baucus’s thick skull that Grassley was indeed not negotiating in good faith, TAG! they were lured into wrestling with Olympia Snowe for several more weeks. Snowe pulled off a pretty convincing legislative cock-tease over that time before Obama, Reid et. al finally realized she would never “consumate” the negotiation; it was all teasing and petting just to get them all hot.
It’s not whether the GOOPERS are smart enough to try the same trick twice – it’s been obvious since sometime in March, at latest, that their strategy was to replay the same obstructionist derailing of a healthcare reform attempt that was their vehicle for regaining power in 1994, so why wouldn’t they also try the dummy compromise negotiation ploy if the dems are stupid enough to get suckered along?
THE REAL QUESTION is whether the DEMOCRATS, particularly Reid, Pelosi, and Obama are dumb enough to fall for that crap again. Unfortunately, early signs coming out of the Obama camp indicate that’s indeed a possibility.
Uriel
@Dollared:
While I could be accused of being an O-rahm-atron at times, I’m going to have to say that this is pretty mystifying. I don’t know if they thought they had to stick it out till the end with thir brave face intact, didn’t want to mess with the ju-ju , or they thought any doubt on the part of the official apparatus could interfere with powerful effects of the clap clap clapping…
But, yeah- it does seem pretty inexcusable that someone, at some point down the line, didn’t say “Hey, just in case Tink doesn’t make it, we should probably work on a plausible and easily digestible series of sound bites that we could all mouth off in unison to explain that duirn our very important appearances with Chris Matthews and Wolf Blitzer- rather than appearing to flop around like a fish on the deck of Jolly Rodger?”
Impeachable? No? Stupid? Yeah. Just a bit.
The Ace Tomato Company
Fuck calling my rep. It’s not going to make one damned bit of difference. After 30+ years I am done with the Democratic Party. From here on out, I am writing my own name into every ballot until such time as we get a political party that actually does something beneficial for the country.
In some ways I am starting to think the Democrats are even more insidious than the Republicans. At least with Republicans we know we’re going to get fucked so we can at least offer some resistance. With the Democrats, we let out guard down in the hope of reform and still end up getting screwed just as badly.
Screw the Democrats. They are dead to me.
Martin
@Uriel: I agree, but I’d add that a lot of the flopping around has been in the House who are probably deservedly pissed off at the Senate for being handed a bill they didn’t want to pass and then being boxed in because the DSCC fucked up an easy win. Even if they had the talking points, I think they were pissed enough that they would have been off message anyway.
The other point is that the media was looking for Dems to be shellshocked and found the story even when it wasn’t really there – as we saw with the WH report.
But there’s no question that every aspect of this special election should have been handled better. Only the House is excused and they’re the ones who are going to have to come through and salvage HCR. Pelosi has a big job on her hands.
Martin
Shorter The Ace Tomato Company:
The donkey hurt my feelings, so screw you guys, I’m out of here.
The Raven
@tammanycall:
Yes. Let ’em know. Get ’em moving. If they don’t do it, it won’t be because we didn’t push.
Uriel
@Martin:
True. It’s probably going to take a couple of days to figure out how much of this is actually due to real clumsiness on the part of dems, and how much of this is a result of an overriding desire on the part of the chattering class to cram stuff into the pre-fab narrative “Oh, those goofy libs, can’t they do anything right! Wah-wah-wah. (Play Yakety Sax over choice highlights.)”
But I do get the frustration over it seeming to be easier for the talking heads to do this than it should.
The Ace Tomato Company
Uh no, the donkey has been weak, feckless and hasn’t done jack shit since the 1960s. I gave them way too much credit and provided them with way too many excuses. In the 1980s I gave them the benefit of the doubt because they were under the shadow of Reagan. From 1994-2006 I gave them the benefit of the doubt because they were fighting rising conservatism.
When they finally got their biggest supermajority in 40 years in both houses of congress, got the White House, as well as a majority of state legislatures and STILL haven’t done shit, I think it’s fair to toss these douchebags right in the garbage.
As for Obama; he better start putting up a serious fight (including with members of his own party) and start getting more personally involved. As far as I’m concerned, he either comes out swinging at the SOTU, or I am happy to see him as a one term, failed president. Fuck, he doesn’t even need to “win” all these battles, he just needs to friggin try. Given that his administration didn’t even prepare his party for a potential MA loss, shows how ridiculously disconnected he is.
Long story short: When the Democrats start using an excuse which can largely be translated as, “How do you expected us to get anything done when the Republicans held a 40 to 60 advantage over us in the Senate” it’s pretty clear they’re fucking worthless.
Any party with even a little bit of a spine could have succeeded here. Imagine how much would have gotten done if Bush and the Republicans had ever had these types of majorities. We’d all be getting huge tax credits and subsidized trips to travel overseas and torture brown people.
Uriel
@The Ace Tomato Company: Look- this is probably unfair, since I’m going to bed in a moment, and won’t be able to see your undoubtedly brilliant response, but this:
Is unadulterated nonsense.
Go back in your mind and really remember where the poor in this country stood under Regan. Or Gays/lesbians. or people with aids.Or African Americans. Or unions. Or environmentalists.
Or, fuck, just try and cast your mind back and remember how all those people who didn’t want to see the world reduced to a glowing cinder were treated during the reign of the “great communicator.” Remember that whole “the soviet union is illegal, the bombing begins in five minutes” hilarity? Able Archer? Stanislav Petrov?
Does the democratic party get to claim all the credit for those changes? No. But they should get their due. Which is substantial.
Cripes, it would be nice if progressives/liberals/dems could at least once admit that some god damn progress has, in fact, been made.
JoyceH
Something occurred to me today, and that’s that the only people being beaten up for the fiasco in Congress are the Democrats. Yes, they’re the ones in charge and they’re the ones who probably screwed up the HCR process – but they’re the only ones actually trying to accomplish anything. ALL those rowdy townhalls last summer were Democratic town halls.
Upthread I see people posting that there’s no point in calling their rep because he’s a Republican. So the Dems are getting it from both sides – the teabaggers beating them up for this alleged ‘government takeover of health care’ and now their progressive constituents beating them up for not fighting for the bills.
I’m not saying that progressives shouldn’t call their Democratic reps, of course they should – to let them know that the ‘baggers aren’t the only people out there. But those of us with Republican reps need to call them too.
The Democrats in Congress are having their lives made miserable by the stirred-up teabaggers and also their own supporters. Meanwhile, the Republicans who are the REAL problem because they’ve been refusing to engage on the nation’s problems and are obstructing everything are just sitting back gloating and being smug.
I doubt if we can change any of their votes, but dammitall, at least let’s stop them from enjoying themselves so much!
Bill E Pilgrim
No one just wants to face the fact that the Democratic supermajority wasn’t some cleverly orchestrated many-dimensional chess, but more like 60 clowns who happened to trip over themselves at the same time so as to form an accidental human pyramid.
“Inherently unstable” would be an understatement.
I think what infuriates me the most is the feeling that so many at the top in the Democratic power structure are taking such pains to be fair to Republicans, “Oh, we mustn’t do anything until he’s seated!” and “the people have spoken!” and all the rest of it, when what we’re talking about having all this respect for is a filibuster power that’s being abused so that a small minority can virtually call the shots.
Respect, reschmect. They have none, why are they being rewarded for that?
The supermajority was a one-time, fortuitous arrangement of the planets, and should have been taken advantage of while it lasted. When Harry Reid said “Olympia Snowe wasted our time, for months” I wanted to scream, out loud.
Yeah, no one could have predicted that.
I think John C had it right two posts back: The problem is at the top. Nice try Mr. President, but it turns out that your pit bull is biting your dinner guests and licking the hands of the burglars. Do something about it or get a new one.
wilfred
Please.
Michael
rimshot
And don’t forget to tip the waiters
Chuck Butcher
@Uriel:
Having watched blue collar wages tank from RR on with a slight slow down under Clinton I don’t see it economically. Everybody seems to want to talk economy in regard to votes, not a winning scenario from my perspective. Oh it did catch the middle much later and was therefore not a concern. Now I sure don’t call the (D) the GOP, but give me a fucking break.
Maybe you’d like to talk about Iraq, or Patriot Acts, or Enemy Combatants, or… Thank you (D). How about Glass-Steagel, or the tax code or… You can sure pile up a lot of forgiveness into that period. Oh hell, I’ll still vote but your whanging at the left is pretty fucking tiresome and considering how wrong you’ve been – fucking annoying.
I watch all this foot stomping and yowling about fightng the House and contrast it to the “looney left” you were a very short time ago castigating for yowling and fighting…
ROTFLMAO or would be if it weren’t so sad. What? You don’t have the votes from your Party? But this is different because … well because you’re doing it. It can’t be bad because… well you’re not the evil left and it only counts if…
mai naem
Just wondering if Tim is going to have a post about how the House Blue dogs are the real problem since Bart”Secret Fundy Family”Stupak is saying that he doesn’t like the Senate’s less restrictive abortion language and he’s got 10-12 votes with him.
Also too if Coakley had won in Mass. would Bayh and Lieberprick come out and said that the Mass. people had spoken and that we should keep on the way out left road that we are supposedly taking?
mai naem
Anybody heard of this story:
Following an ABC News report that thousands of gun sights used by the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan are inscribed with secret Bible references, a spokesperson for the Marine Corps said the Corps is ‘concerned’ and will discuss the matter with the weapons manufacturer.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/secret-bible-verses-guns-marines-concerned/story?id=9602030
You gotta be kidding.
Mary
Shouldn’t we also be calling the White House?
Stroszek
@Mark S.: Didn’t a bunch of the Stupak baby-killers just go ahead and vote against the bill anyway?
Either way, there are a couple of no-voting Blue Dogs who I’m hopeful can be brought on board now that they’ve announced their retirement. There are also people like Artur Davis who just need to be kindly informed that no, a black man will not be elected governor of Alabama in 2010 and that his impoverished constituents really need those insurance subsidies.
Lisa K.
You know, I am all for a big tent-really-but when the clowns in the tent start actively working to sabotage a signature piece of legislation for an administration, it is time to relieve them of their committee obligations. It is past time to kick Joe Lieberman out of the caucus IMO. They will not accomplish anything with him that they could not have without him.
Democrats may be the party with the better ideas, but they are otherwise useless. And ideas alone do not improve healthcare or generate jobs.
Lisa K.
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Not the least of the rest of it were if the circumstances reversed, a Republican president would have had that piece of legislation on his desk two seconds after Martha Coakley gave her concession speech.
I despise Republican philosophy and tactics, but if I were someone with no political convictions or ideology, it sure would be easy to be convinced at this point that Bush was an aberration and the real Republicans are coming back to get us out of this mess, since Democrats certainly aren’t able to do it. They are shooting their own president in the foot, after all
jwb
@cmorenc: I meant now that the Goopers have the Dems down, will they give the appearance of being willing to appear to negotiate? I don’t think the Goopers will, since that would entail its own risks and I think they will figure the Dems have been damaged sufficiently at this point.
jwb
@eemom: I saw that last night. Ouch indeed.
What does it mean that the NY Times editorial this morning also criticizes Obama from the left?
daryljfontaine
Good grief, between his interview of Obama and his smug preening on GMA, I seriously want to punch George Stephanopoulos in the face.
“Can you tell me in what ways this is all your fault?”
“He’s realizing that he went to Washington to change it and is now part of the problem.”
“Obama — worst president of the 21st century, or worst president ever?”
Maybe that last one is a slight exaggeration.
D
Stroszek
Snuffa really confuses me. Did he actually turn Republican or is he desperately trying to compensate for being perceived as a Clinton crony?
Keith G
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Added to that is the reality that the GOP have policy drivers like Norquist, Limbaugh, NRA. They enunciate a policy then are willing and able to punish those who don’t follow.
The Dems have policy advisers like Krugman. They enunciate a policy then hope that someone listens.
Our way is more humane and more feckless.
norbizness
“I don’t belong to any organized political party… I’m a Democrat.”
Napoleon
Well I will not waste my time calling since I have a Rep Congressperson. By the way, in case anyone hasn’t noticed the Dems are a bunch of feckless cowards from Obama on down.
jibeaux
I called my Rep’s office yesterday, Brad Miller. I consider him to be a pretty level-headed guy. Not a real progressive, not a real blue dog either. I just stated that I did not want him to be discouraged about health care reform, and that it was a very high priority to me that we accomplish something on that front. Nice lady logging these calls said she would pass along the message. An underwhelming report, I know.
Husband is going to call today even though he took the side in the bet that the Democrats would immediately roll over and wave the white flag. I think he half expected them to start talking about privatizing Social Security. Yes, he’s got the smarter bet but it’s the same checking account so it’s really just a matter of who picks the restaurant.)
Robin G.
A couple of thoughts as I nurse my hangover:
1) I can’t entirely blame Obama (or Webb) for saying we’re not going to rush the HCR through the Senate before Brown is seated. It would be terrible optics, and would seriously delegitimize the legislation in the eyes of the public. Would the Republicans do it? In a heartbeat. But we’re not them. And I really don’t think “HCR was passed through tricks and deceit!” is a cudgel we want to be hit with this fall, because it’s exactly the kind of message the Dems suck at responding to. (Yes, they’ll be hit with other things, too. I’m not dumb.) Plus. if it went back to the Senate, we have to make another pass by Lieberdouche. Frankly, I think the Brown thing is a good excuse to not send it back to the Senate. And someone needs to tell the House Dems that, disgusting though it is, they were always going to have to support the Senate bill more or less verbatim, or the Senate Drama Queen Caucus would have bolted. The Brown victory didn’t make that happen, it was always that way.
2) I’m going to keep calling. I don’t know if it helps, but it can’t hurt.
3) I think the votes are probably there in the House, just sort of instinctually. There’s a lot of real progressives, but I doubt any of them are firebaggers; they want this done. The abortion caucus isn’t that big. A number of Blue Dogs voted against the House bill because of the public option, and now that’s not there. To me, the biggest problem has to be labor, and if they can be appeased with a quick fix in reconciliation or something, then we should be good. No one wants to be The Vote That Killed Reform, and if we lost, it would be by a slim margin. Everyone would know who did it, and Pelosi would come down like a hammer.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
fixeded.
jibeaux
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
But after we call, we can still definitely yell at pseudonyms on blogs, right? ‘Cause I reject these false dichotomies!
Uriel
@Chuck Butcher:
I think I said progress, not perfection. There’s a difference, subtle tho it may be. I was addressing recognition of the former, not accolades and universal praise for the latter.
Also, nice how you avoided every goddamn example I provided and switched to railing about all sorts of other things.
Also, you might look into who, exactly, were the ones who originated and were pushing hard for those things on your list. Yes, dems didn’t fight hard enough on these issues- but pretending that those were democratic initiatives is pretty intellectually dishonest.
As for the rest of your piece, I guess my first reaction is, ‘whatever.’ I’m assuming you’re using the repeated “you”‘s in the abstract. Otherwise, you’ve obviously personalized something I said somewhere way beyond any reasonable limit.
At worst, all I’ve done here in comments is criticize a select range of progressives on very limited questions regarding tactics on a fairly small range issues. If engaging in debate now suddenly means I’ve become an enemy of the people, a destroyer of justice and one of the reasons you can’t have nice things, then my reaction is exactly and entirely this: grow up.
I mean, come on- “loony left?” I’ve seen cardboard cut-outs with more depth and substance.
Violet
Question – I called my Rep. yesterday. Should I call again today and tomorrow, etc.? Or is once enough?
I really don’t know how this works and what would have a better impact. Don’t want to be seriously annoying by calling over and over and thus have my opinion discounted. But don’t want to not do enough.
Basilisc
I just called Jim Moran’s capitol hill office (VA 8th district, Arlington/Alexandria). They said he’s a strong supporter of HCR but hasn’t yet taken a position on the House passing the Senate bill unchanged.
FormerSwingVoter
People are noticing:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/01/welling_up.php?ref=fpblg
Ecks
@daryljfontaine: Actually I LIKED the interview BECAUSE Georgie actually pushed at Obama and asked hard questions and made him defend himself. If interviewers worked like this more often in this country, and to BOTH parties, this would be a better place.
But America has this stupid belief that an interviewer should never ever challenge their interviewee, and should just loft softballs. Go watch a British interview with a politician – they get grilled and asked devils advocate questions no matter who they are. It comes off as totally hostile to N. American eyes, but it’s sooooo much better.
BTW, data point: Ezra cites a reader:
Liberty60
I think we also need to look at our enemy, the grassroots wingnuts.After the 2008 election everyone- and I mean EVERYONE was telling them that they were toast, that we held all the powerthat they should just STFU and go home.
So what did they do? Wring their hands and whine about how unfair life is? No, they got angry, and over the period of a year staged a comeback. We laughed at the RedStaters mailing shit to people, and all the ranting angry white guys on Powerline and Hot Air.
But it works!
Grassroots anger and mobilization and blogging and letter writing works, damnit.
Sitting here hoping that Lanny Davis and the Beltway Dems will somehow save things while we sit on the sidelines passively observing is a guaranteed failure.
I have called my congresswoman, and will again today.
What we need is to build a movement- we need to be able to mobilize 70,000 people in Washington like the Teabaggers. we need to make every one of the Congressmen’s townhalls our own, and make them afraid of us, not the other side.