Just called Rep. Mollohan’s office, and his staffers claim that he has no position because Pelosi said the bill will never come to the floor. I asked her where Pelosi had said that, and she said yesterday.
Even the staffers have no idea what Pelosi said- she specifically did not rule out ever bringing the bill to a vote, she said she does not have the votes for it to pass right now.
The staffer kept asking me if there is a specific issue in the Senate bill- as if that mattered, because the conference is dead. I then told her that you all are going to get massacred in the fall if nothing passes and quite frankly, you will deserve it.
I do not think you can underestimate how rudderless the House is right now- and the more they panic, the more they will run for the hills. The Democrats are so screwed.
El Cid
The best approach is for the leadership to step back and give them another 18 – 48 months to consider their next options.
MaximusNYC
Is it worth calling Pelosi’s office, in addition to our own reps?
Lisa K.
That is what the 04 Yanks thought of the 04 Red Sox, too. Then Kevin Millar said, “don’t let us win one.”
Then the Yanks let them win one, and the Sox were off and running. The rest is history.
This could end up exactly the same IF the Democrats can just win this one…
We need Millar on this.
cfaller96
Reposted from previous thread because it’s so appropriate:
More generally, it’s Friday afternoon, and the Democrats still have not developed and/or rallied around a plan (mainly because they apparently never really expected Coakley to lose). That’s embarrassing enough, but what’s worse is that I don’t think any of us know who is responsible for developing and herding everyone around a plan. President Obama? Speaker Pelosi?
I don’t know who’s in charge of this thing anymore, no one in Congress is strong enough to think for themselves, they have no instructions, and everyone is watching. The American people are forced to conclude that on arguably their most important issue and the #1 item on President Obama’s agenda, the Democrats have neither the ability nor the willpower to accomplish anything substantive.
Wow. Just wow.
Tomlinson
Speaking as a Sox fan (and I do think the comparison is very apropos), what’s happened here is classic Sox.
But expecting them to pull it off?
Don’t go there.
I think I said we were “terrifyingly close to HCR” a few weeks back.
Everyone understand what I meant now?
Lisa K.
That is what they have been thinking for a few months now, which, contrary to some of the beliefs expressed here, is why Scott Brown won IMO.
Like I said-crazy beats wimpy every time.
Tomlinson
Seriously. They have lost one freakin’ election and still have one of the largest majorities in recent history, are on the very cusp of passing HCR, a goal for lo! these 50 years and more and…
They’ve decompensated?
I mean, these people are among the rulers of the free world.
We’re all fucking doomed.
Mnemosyne
I was pretty sure we were hosed when Barney Frank had his freakout and declared the whole thing dead. If people in leadership positions like Frank are having a meltdown, why would the backbenchers react any differently?
Lisa K.
@Tomlinson:
Let’s hope it turns into 04 classic and not 86 classic.
David Atkins
Lois Capps’ (CA-23) staffer would only say that “she’s committed to getting it done. That’s the talking point you can take out of it.”
When I said I understood that, but that there are only a few strategies available at this point, and asked what strategy she was leaning toward, she remained noncommittal. It seemed that she wasn’t allowed to say any more than that.
These people are truly lost.
Rock
How dumb are they? How can they think that they can walk away from this and survive the mid-terms? The political part of their job is the part they care about and they can’t even do that correctly.
What they should do is pass the damn bill. There’s a win. And then, spend the rest of the time introducing popular SIMPLE bills like Wall St. tax and Wall St. regulations (but make them simple…this for public consumption not actual implementation) and get the Republicans on record opposing them. Then vociferously point out the Republicans putting party before patriotism. That’s the best case scenario for the next 3 years (and that depends on keeping a majority in at least one house of congress).
General Winfield Stuck
After giving them a little time to sort out possible options of getting this done, we all ought to get on Reid’s ass and if necessary Pelosi to start making the motherfucking blue dogs and wingnuts actually vote on a bill. They should get a final version together that liberals can support, whether from a conference or the ping ponging they been doing and bring it to a vote. It would at least serve to comfort libs and progs or whatever with some closure, and would put the onus on the obstructors to actually obstruct, and not do it via punditry. They had better start looking after their base at least, dem CC’rs, with an end game vote, even if it comes up short.
That is my dream, and I will hold it close, along with my tear stained plastic unicorn..
David
I’ve never seen this addressed by any of the firebaggers either, but how is a better bill supposed to pass after the Dems lose seats in the next election? If they don’t pass HCR, they may not even have the majority on both chambers.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
This storm has been brewing for a long time. The disarray in the House reflects a lack of anything even remotely resembling consensus amongst the voters. Ask 300 million Americans what to do re: HCR and you’ll get 600 million opinions. And that comes from a political class that is totally and completely unwilling to talk to the electorate in any terms other than “here are goodies for you, they don’t cost anything” (Dems), or “be afraid, be very, very afraid” (GOP). When was the last time a political figure in this country asked folks to make a shared sacrifice for anything? Because the compromised necessary to get something as big and complicated as HCR done depend on a strong sense of shared community. But we don’t have that – everybody is looking out for #1 and as a result we aren’t a cohesive polity any more, because nobody has put in the effort or invested the political capital to make it so. The USA has become nothing but a collection of interest groups. We are the Disunited States of America. And I blame the GOP very much for this – so much could have been done on 9-12 and later to rebuild the ties that hold us together, and they did the exact opposite.
The Grand Panjandrum
@El Cid: By then the Senate may get President Snowe on board.
Brick Oven Bill
:)
beltane
Just got off the phone with Peter Welch’s (VT-AL) office and they don’t know what’s going on either. It sounded like he wants to vote for it but that they don’t know what they’re voting on or if they’re voting on anything at all. Is anyone in charge here? Anyone?
The Raven
The House Democrats, it seems, are expected to fall on their swords for the corporations. The Senate Democrats apparently never dreamed that they might also be at risk. Not surprisingly, both houses of Congress are panicked.
I think you’re going to win, and the Senate bill will be passed as it stands. From what I seeing from the House, there are three major positions:
1. Pass lesser reforms piecemeal. (scared)
2. Pass the Senate bill as it stands. (center)
3. Pass the Senate bill, modified through reconciliation (left)
The compromise looks like (2), pass the Senate bill as it stands. Lots more food for corvids.
Croak!
patroclus
I think the Congressmen are waiting for Obama’s State of the Union speech.
beltane
@David: The people will rise up and spontaneously demand single payer. This is, some claim, how civil rights legislation was passed.
If they want us to believe this, they’d better start passing around those kind buds they’ve been smoking.
Knocienz
Well at least the Democrats are all united behind the “We have no idea what we are going to do” ‘plan’
Peter Zerzan
I just talked to my Congresswoman Jackie Speier of CA CD-12. She said she will not vote for the Senate bill as is.
kay
@David:
They’re not big on counting. firebaggers. They’re “big picture” people.
Until they start pulling individual provisions out of the bill and misrepresenting them. Then they’re very, very specific, and won’t put anything in context of the larger bill.
It’s maddening.
BTD
On the “Pass The Bill” issue, the unions have the rudder John.
Just because they do not say that to you in the congressman’s office does not make that the case.
No one will take a specific position unless they have to. right now, on the Senate Stand alone bill, the union has exercise a veto. Unless the Senate agrees to a companion fix to the excise tax, that’s where it will stay.
Lisa K.
@David:
The results do not matter. All that matters over at that insane asylum is punishing those who produced a bill not 100% to their liking. Evidently the mindset is if we allow enough right wing lunatics to replace the traitorous current Democrats, the country will REALLY see how bad off they are and elect BETTER Democrats two decades from now.
It is complete insanity.
General Winfield Stuck
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Yes, you are right. And it is why reforming health care has been so hard to do. It is complex, with a matrix of private and public funding apparatuses along with seemingly an infinite number of players and middlemen. Add to that the visceral concern of tinkering with something so personal and important as potential life saving means like health insurance, and you have a situation primed to be distorted and fear mongered by those who oppose reform, and we know who they are. And that is what happened and it was expected.
but with failure there is also the macabre knowledge the clown car that is our HC system will still be heading for the cliff and killing people along the way. Someday soon it will not be a reform effort, but a salvage operation.
FlipYrWhig
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
I think it has a lot to do with inability to take the long view — in bad times we want quick fixes and in good times we don’t care about fixes because, hey, good times!
geg6
@General Winfield Stuck:
You do understand that it’s not the Blue Dogs who are actually causing most of the problems right now, don’t you? I mean, I hate the Blue Dogs as much or more than anyone, but my Blue Dog congresscritter just told me he would have no problem voting for the Senate bill and would even look at revisions through reconciliation (though it would depend on what they are). It seems to be the Grijalva faction that is really causing the angst. Though, at this point, who knows?
Tim F.
@MaximusNYC: Only if you know a zip code in her district. Otherwise your message will not exactly get written down in the book of life.
Tomlinson
Could have fooled me, looks more like the “run in circles scream and shout” plan, or maybe the “freeze like a deer in the headlights” plan or even the “ponies…ponies…ponies…I want my ponies” plan.
Dee From Texas
I guess I should be doing something now but I live in Texas so all of my congressmen are heavily invested in seeing HCR fail. If anyone can suggest something that we red-staters could do, I will consider it.
I have never been so sickened by American politics. All of the Republicans look like calculating wingnuts, and the Democrats…look like cowards. Even if they aren’t, they LOOK it which is mostly what matters in politics.
Here’s an urgent request for John Cole: for heaven’s sake, put A LOT of pictures of Tunch and Lily into Balloon Juice — in between all the terrible news. It will have a calming effect in the middle of the horror.
I’m afraid I’ll just go crazy completely and never donate or vote for a national candidate again.
gypsy howell
As a lifelong democrat, I’ve always known the party was wimpy and feckless (especially since St Ronnie was elected), but honestly, a complete nuclear meltdown after one election goes bad?
This is simply unbelievable.
And Obama seems as clueless as the rest of them.
How long before we start hearing “if he can’t even handle one lost senate seat, how would he handle a terrorist attack?” Shit, I’m beginning to ask myself that question after this week.
These people needs to take a big deep breath and pull themselves together. This is actually frightening to watch.
cfaller96
My own $.02 is that calls should be made to Speaker Pelosi’s office to ask her (nicely) to put the Senate bill up for a vote regardless of the whip count. I mean, what do we have to lose? If she truly doesn’t have the votes and it fails, then that’s no different than not putting it up for a vote anyway.
I would also suggest a call to the WH and suggest the “cleanup amendment” alternative. Despite the news reports I refuse to believe that President Obama is doing nothing about this. I have to believe he’s still interested and involved. If I’m wrong about that I’ll probably crawl into a bottle until the next college football season starts.
I have no idea if Speaker Pelosi or President Obama would listen.
Napoleon
@geg6:
That appears to be where the major problem lies.
Irony Abounds
I’ve always believed that the Democratic leadership in Congress is a major weakness. I know some say that Pelosi has delivered, but frankly, I don’t see it. All of this is something that needed to be worked out well in advance of any votes being taken. You don’t put something up, see how the votes go and then react – good Congressional leadership will know in advance how the votes will go and passage would be a foregone conclusion – particularly with the wide majorities enjoyed by the Dems. Obama is to blame for giving Congress full responsibility for the legislation. He should have put a better framework together that had a shot at passage. Nonetheless, Reid and Pelosi have made a complete mess of this situation.
General Winfield Stuck
@geg6: I was talking about going ahead and creating a final bill like they were already doing, not just the senate bill, but a fixed bill that liberals could support. Then still voting on it even though it would likely be defeated and the usual suspects of Blue Dogs would vote no. Read my whole comment.
Cat Lady
Fix’t for accuracy.
I do believe we’re officially ungovernable. The MA election has pulled the veil off of our civic face, and it’s ugly and mean.
Svensker
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Jimmy Carter with the Sweater for $100, Alex.
Comrade Dread
I keep having images of a handful of humanzees saying how we could really improve our lot in life by climbing down from the trees and building more stable shelters (so we won’t be eaten) and get some fires going, and how this all sounds good to a majority of the group who decide we should do that.
But then a small group (unhappy the majority isn’t following their throw shit on Tyrannosaurus Rexs and let the JohnGaltzee eat all of the bananas) mocks them incessantly and throws shit on anything they try to do.
And pretty soon the Get out of the trees group runs around aimlessly hitting themselves in the head with rocks because… well, that’s what they always do when confronted by opposition.
And eventually, the whole pack dies off after the opposition group regains authority and convinces them all that fire is edible.
I honestly cannot imagine that we’ve survived this long as a species and that we’re really not part of a cosmic Monty Python skit.
wvng
I just called both Reid’s and Pelosi’s offices, relaying basically the message that is screaming from these pages today. They took my call, they listened and wrote down what I said – the gist of which is that they, together, need to lead their respective caucuses right now to agree to a reconciliation package by the Senate that will satisfy the House so it will vote for the Senate HCR bill. I also said that they need to do the leading because Obama either can’t or won’t.
Worth a try. Isn’t it?
RSR
“he has no position because Pelosi said the bill will never come to the floor”
I recall way too much of that in the summer and fall: people proffering no opinion because–they said–there was nothing to offer an opinion about! Enough of the copping-out by claiming it’s all hypothetical.
Stupak and Nelson certainly had no problem telling us what they would and would not support.
mcc
I just updated the spreadsheet of calls made by Balloon Juicers with all the threads (except this one) since last night.
The one thing that really, really strikes me, looking at this, is just how incredibly many of the responses here are just “waiting for leadership” or “will do what leadership says”.
Pelosi seems to be waiting back on committing to a strategy because she doesn’t know if it works, but in the meantime, god damn, her failure to commit seems to be the main thing driving people away from the bill!
Henry Bayer
Here’s a scenario to give you pause: Senate version brought to a vote in House. Republicans all delay their votes, as the Democrats cave in and most vote against. Republicans then ALL vote to pass Senate bill, which after all, was tailored to please Republicans. HCR passes. Even I would vote Republican after this.
D. Aristophanes
Only if you know a zip code in her district. Otherwise your message will not exactly get written down in the book of life.
94117
danimal
@geg6: It sure looks like the progressives are afraid to get too far ahead of the unions. The problems appear solvable with leadership, and I’m one that believes leadership is most effective behind closed doors. But I’ll agree with the General, there needs to be a vote. If this thing gets killed, I want names. Without the names of the No votes, my anger will get directed at Democrats in general.
Raoul
I think many of us should have fought the Senate atrocity earlier-giving in to Lieberman and Nelson should have never been an option. Sleep with dogs….
Lisa K.
@Dee From Texas:
Click here for an incredibly cute picture of my dog in the snow, if that will help…
artem1s
More from the world of 11 dimensional chess…
http://www.plunderbund.com/2010/01/22/today-in-ohio-president-obama-got-his-groove-back/
http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/president-obama-back-campaign-mode-refocuses-agenda
I double dog dare you to figure this one out…
David
Reid got 60% to vote for it, and people hate his leadership. Pelosi has gotten results and been regarded more favorably than Reid so far and she only has to get 50% + 1 to pass the bill. Monumental failure if it doesn’t pass the House.
Lisa K.
@Henry Bayer:
I would subside on a diet of raw sewage before I would do that. I have never voted for a Republican in my life, and I never will.
I will live (and more likely die) with Democrats, no matter how useless they are. Their one saving grace is that they are not Republicans.
Greg in Brooklyn
Called the local office of Yvette Clarke (D-NY11) and was forwarded to the DC office. Told the aide that while I had called a few months back to encourage Clarke to support a strong public option, now I’m calling to urge her to pass the Senate bill. Told the aide that the fate of the party majorities in both houses is at stake. The aide told me that the office is getting a lot of calls in support of this. No indication of how she will vote.
Svensker
@Lisa K.:
You are right — cuteness cubed. That cheered me up. I may actually go do some work instead of moping around like a tired chicken without a head, or an elected Democrat, but I repeat myself.
cfaller96
The logic was that losing the majority is not a real possibility, and so killing HCR and allowing the Blue Dogs to get whacked in 2010 would allow for all the Progressives to come back for a “second bite at the apple,” but this time with a demonstration of the bad things that can happen if their interests are not tended to. I myself firmly bought into this logic, if for no other reason then it was at least a defensible negotiating position for the “first bite at the apple.” As long as the conference bill hadn’t been finalized, everything was negotiable and all threats should have remained on the table.
That was then, though, and this is now. Losing the majority is now possible, even if it’s still unlikely. And the Senate has decided that they are done with HCR (fuckers), so there’s no more negotiating. So now, we’re out of time. As much as I hate the Senate bill, this is really it (and there’s still the faint possibility of a reconciliation amendment, but only with passage of the Senate bill).
wvng
I’ve also tried calling the WH, but he phone has been very busy.
Robin G.
@El Cid:
So we’re about one Friedman Unit from comprehensive HCR?
Lisa K.
@Svensker:
She had just finished burrowing and rolling in the snow. That little tuft of white on her nose will kill you with cuteness.
GregB
I hate to be an alarmist, but tonight Glenn Beck is rolling out his newest piece of propaganda for the tea-party set.
It is advancing Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism thesis.
Beck is pushing the theory that the left is actively planning genocides.
I honestly believe that Beck is working his followers into a do it to them before they do it to you mind set.
It goes hand in hand with Limbaugh’s recent foray into fanning anti-semitism against the left.
We are heading down a dangerous path.
-G
Irony Abounds
@Napoleon: In a Congress of dim bulbs, Grijalva is among the dimest. He is basically a product of the local machine politics in Pima County, and left to his own devices couldn’t find his ass with two hands and a flashlight. His position is that he won’t accept the Senate bill because it is not liberal enough, yet he supports a piecemeal approach that is guaranteed to produce even more conservative legislation (if anything were produced at all). How brilliant is that? For him to be a linchpin on any important legislation is most frightening.
mcc
Geez. I just realized that Pelosi’s San Francisco office is, like, a 10 minute bus ride from where I’m sitting right now.
I wonder what happens if I just try to walk in and talk to someone.
sparky
@cfaller96: it still seems to me that people here are missing something. if no one here likes the bill why exactly would the general public like it either? so how exactly is getting it passed going to help the Ds come fall, which, so far as i can tell, is the only remaining rationalization i see here?
Lisa K.
@GregB:
You know, I can only worry about so much today…I will put off Glenn Beck for right now.
FlipYrWhig
@Raoul:
Wait, how would that help? Wouldn’t that mean a 58-42 vote on the Senate bill and a massive nuclear meltdown in December that would probably lead to a month of Democrats being pilloried as ineffective… and hence Brown beating Coakley, and Democrats pointing fingers at each other, flailing about with no sense of what happens next?
General Winfield Stuck
@Lisa K.: Ahh! yes it does help me. A sweetheart doggie you have!!
beltane
@mcc: Can you add Welch (VT) as a “meh”. Nice guy answered the phone. They don’t know what’s going on, and the Supreme Court decision has compounded the shock of the Massachusetts Senate debacle.
cjones
Haha, nice cartoon. But did he really have to write health care on the ball?
Svensker
Just went over to FDL to see what they’re saying (I KNOW I said I’d get to work, just a MINUTE) and Jane has a post up about how we need to kill the bill so the 4th option can happen and then we all ride around on our HCR unicorns forever. Does anyone understand what this 4th option is? My brain couldn’t fathom it.
Lisa K.
@General Winfield Stuck:
My baby…a little rescue dog from Louisiana. The shelter where we got her puts down ~700-800 animals in a WEEK.
Stroszek
I called Pelosi’s office and told them to bring it to a floor vote if for nothing else than giving closure to the base. I also said that we Dems out in the sticks are getting really frustrated with the post-election chaos.
I would call Zach Wamp, but the last time I did that, he mailed me a brochure about why Al Gore is an evil George Soros-financed menace to society.
Irony Abounds
And the “mehs” have it, the legislation is permanently exiled to Purgatory. Next up – caving in on financial reform.
General Winfield Stuck
@danimal: They say for closure in the grieving process, it is always better to have a body to view. If it comes to RIP HCR.
David
@sparky: The Senate bill does quite a bit to improve things. (Not as much as the House bill, but that doesn’t matter anymore.) When people are asked about individual parts of the Senate bill, they are very popular. Running on something is a far better place to be than “i voted for it, but it didn’t pass”.
General Winfield Stuck
@Lisa K.: You did good!!
beltane
@GregB: Yep, Roger Ailes is getting his troops ready to eliminate anyone who is slow to submit to the New Corporate Order. Time to keep a close eye on the activities of your rightie neighbors.
El Cid
@Robin G.: Are you trying to impose a timeline? That seems kind of radical to me. We should appoint a commission charged with considering a possible future review, and thus present a resolution for a sense of the committee to a joint informal delegation of 3 Democrats and 8 Republicans to decide the way forward.
Svensker
@GregB:
Yeah, Beck had a thing on last night (or the night before) “educating” his audience about the awful socialist genocides that have happened in history, as under Stalin and Mao. The hubster says “why’s he explaining this stuff to his ignorant git audience?” (he’s an elitist, ya see), and I say, “because he’s going to explain to them shortly how Democrats are really socialists and if HCR goes through, genocide will follow, naturally.” Appears I’m right.
Svensker
Oh crap, I said “sockalist”. Pooty. I be moderated.
FlipYrWhig
@sparky: You pass it, then explain it, confident that a lot of the opposition stems from incomprehension, so once it’s in place people will get over their opposition, and maybe even learn to love it. I happen to agree with that. But lots of people apparently don’t, and they think instead that as people begin to comprehend the bill it will only _increase_ disapproval.
beltane
@Svensker: Fuck her. That’s all I have to say.
El Cid
@Svensker: “The Fourth Option” is the upcoming John Grisham novel.
meh
strange days friends…12 months ago we were talking about the demise of the GOP a political party – dead, fin, finito – yet today, I am watching the slow decomposition of a party that I worked hard to put into power. I am more ashamed of myself for being fooled than I have been about almost anything else in my life. It’s all over except for the screaming.
I read an excellent post over at TNC’s house – basic gist was “I’m an upper middle class, white guy, heterosexual, married with good health insurance. I don’t have a dog in this fight, yet I was working to get this done for people less fortunate than myself.” That’s how this is falling apart – the Democrats in congress have insurance; they have money; they have jobs (for now) – they don’t have a dog in this fight. That’s why they are so willing to give up without much a fight. You want fuck their mindset? Set it up so if healthcare fails, they lose their insurance – that shit would be passed before 5pm today.
The are going to get massacred in November – they are going to lose a whole generation of voters to apathy and bitterness and that sweet, sweet taste of betrayal PLUS they are going to lose the support of the largest growing minority voting block in the nation in Latinos and will thusly lose the chance to govern for at least another generation – although I can’t honestly say that’s a bad thing at this point.
Fuck, I mean, if you don’t want to pass healthcare when it’s the right thing to do, pass healthcare so you stick it to the fucking GOP.
If it’s dead, I mean really, really fucking dead, I’m sending $100 to the RNCC. That’s a motherfuckin promise.
Quiddity
Well, there are a lot of members in the House to deal with, much more than the Senate.
The problem is there was no prep-work (behind the scenes, of course) in the event of a Coakley loss. As far as I can tell, by all concerned.
That’s why it’s extremely difficult to set a message, or follow a plan, in such short order.
@meh I don’t see the Republicans doing all that well with their message
batgirl
@Svensker: Ah, I remember how well that worked out.
I listened to someone tell me yesterday that we need to cut the deficit, cut taxes, and make sure she gets her Medicare and Social Security all at the same time. Politicians don’t ask because they already know the answer.
I thought maybe Obama could be the leader to bring the people along. Obviously, I was wrong.
geg6
@General Winfield Stuck:
Well, when some of us said that a few days and weeks ago, I seem to remember being told I was something suspiciously close to a Firebagger. And that I was unrealistic and I should quit wishing for ponies and unicorns and support the “pragmatic” course of supporting the Senate bill. Funny how it’s all turned around now, isn’t it? I’m whipping my congressional delegation for the Senate bill and you’re suggesting they do what I wanted them to do weeks ago.
If this is how BJ has become on the subject, no wonder Congress has lost their heads at this point.
GregB
Lisa,
Keep your friends close and all.
Not paying attention or ignoring this stuff won’t make it go away.
-G
tcolberg
@mcc: Take the damn spreadsheet to her office. Show them that all the legislators are looking to her for leadership and so far she’s been giving them nothing. We need to pass this now and all it takes is Pelosi standing up and rallying the caucus.
She also needs to figure out whether a follow up reconciliation bill will get holdouts on board, but those inquiries and negotiations are what her staffers are for.
Lisa K.
@GregB:
No, but it might keep me from cutting my own throat for one more day.
Uriel
I keep running a thought experiment about all this in my head, and I can’t help thinking that there’s something off base in my calculations, because my conclusions just seem- well wrong, to be frank. I was wondering if any one here could help:
So the under scenario I’m envisioning, instead of Brown winning last Tuesday, I’m running under the assumption that what actually happened was that, when the poll booths closed at 7, after a brief earthquake, Ted Kennedy himself erupted from the grave, hurling fire and lightning and carrying a sword in each of his eighteen hands. His cancer has been cured by Jesus himself, of course, and – remember I’m just noodling this around- he’s now the size of a two story house. He proceeds lay waste to Brown, the RNC and, just for good measure, Coakley and the Mayor of Boston. The way I’m gaming it in my head, based on the man’s record on this sort of thing, he then proceeds to storm his way across the country-side to the capitol building, where he grabs Reid by the neck, slams him against the wall hard enough to crack the marble façade, before spitting the words, “You feckless twat- Give. Me. Back. My. SEAT!” through his clenched teeth. Where-upon he is duly sworn and seated.
Now, I played with the intervening variables a bit, moving time-lines around and such, but it still isn’t ending three days later with this evening’s announcement : “Tonight’s episode of ‘Numbers’ is being canceled so we can bring you televised coverage of the signing ceremony for the historic Health Care Reform Act of 2010.”
So, anyone have any ideas? Am I missing some subtle beltway reality, or is it just a matter of political naiveté?
Comrade Scrutinizer
@cfaller96:
__
The Senate passed a HCR bill so itis done with HCR, at least for now. There isn’t anymore negotiating to be done, until the House votes whether to accept the Senate bill as written, or makes changes. There’s no point in talking until the Senate has a look at what the House does; anything else would be premature.
cfaller96
Sparky, that was my main point a few days ago- it’s not only bad, but bad and UNPOPULAR, so why pass it? Two things have happened that flipped me: first, I believe the Senators when they say they are done with the conference bill and will not break a filibuster to vote for it; and second, conciliatory noise by some Senators (e.g. Conrad) convinced me that pushing an amendment through by reconciliation is still possible.
The unpopularity of the bill can hopefully be mitigated, and the alternative is nothing. So, now I’m pushing for passage.
It’s entirely possible that’s going on right now- that Speaker Pelosi is furiously cobbling together a tentative agreement with Senator Reid, and only after she’s done with that will she whip the caucus and put the Senate bill up for a vote. We wouldn’t be able to tell if she were doing that, IMO. And don’t write off President Obama yet- I assume he’s involved, for better or worse.
We don’t really know what’s going on behind the scenes, which is simultaneously understandable and frightening.
Stroszek
@Uriel: Lieberman was going to fuck us either way.
Osprey
@Svensker: I write a lot of reports and have to read state law books (which are full of wordy phrases and annoying jargon for the sole purpose of confusing the public and giving me indigestion) and I can’t make sense of it. I can only guess it’s some oddly contrived rule that allows the House to ammend the Senate bill without having to vote on the original…Senate bill? I don’t think we’ll have to worry about it, but let them have their fantasies.
General Winfield Stuck
@geg6: If you cannot accept screwing up by not reading my entire comment, please don’t play the fucking victim card over something that has nothing to do with what you said earlier and were criticized on.
edit because I said if all efforts fail for the house to pass the current senate bill, THEN take it to a losing vote. That has nothing to do with killing the bill and voting for a bill you liked knowing it will be defeated, Before the senate race in Mass.
cfaller96
There is this thing called a conference, where the Senate and the House get together to negotiate out ONE BILL for final passage and Presidential signature. Until the special election, the Senate, the White House, the House, and various interest groups were all negotiating on the final bill.
So no, up until a couple days ago, the Senate was NOT “done” with HCR. They were still in negotiations. But Brown’s victory caused them to cut and run, because they don’t know how to break a filibuster. Again, fuckers.
mcc
@tcolberg: You know what? That is a pretty good idea. Um… hm.
meh
@Quiddity:
You’re kidding right? As Pete Dominick said today on Stand Up on POTUS, they (the GOP) Campaign better, They get their message across better, and the Govern better (albeit by default of governing better than a bunch of pussies rocking back and forth in the corner of the capital sucking their thumbs).
Healthcare Reform went from reform to a Govt Takeover of Healthcare™ – end of life counseling became death panels. They know how to push a message far better than anything the feckless democrats can do.
Jamie
sorry this is more classic Cubs than classic Red Sox.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@FlipYrWhig: Silly person. If the other Dems had stood up to the Republicans, Nelson, and Lieberman, and Obama had whacked them over the head with His Bully Pulpit, the the magical mystical Overton Portal of Amazing Political Whizbang would have poured out fairy dust, all opposition to HCR would have disappeared in a blaze of amazement at the Principled Stand of the 58
at Thermopylaeon the Senate floor, and the 58 Principled Senators would have been paraded through the streets, triumphant.Or something.
David
@cfaller96: There is no magical “breaking the filibuster”. The GOP have 41 seats and won’t hesitate vote against HCR en masse.
Jamie
Unfortunately being against the Dem who are communistic fascists who were trying to take or the government but are too incompetent to find their way to the grocery store seems to work for the GOP.
Sasha
@MaximusNYC:
Funny, you should say that. I just finished leaving a message of support (which I’m sure is appreciated) and my brilliant plan to take back the initiative and put the Republicans back on the defensive (which she might think is actually sweet, if totally silly).
. . .
What is my brilliant plan? Glad you asked! Take a seat . . .
The Democrats have produced a decent bill that ends discrimination against pre-existing conditions; closes the donut hole created by the unfunded, deficit-exploding GOP Medicare bill; is deficit-neutral (actually, it’s better than deficit-neutral since it will actually reduce the deficit); covers 30-40 million Americans; is bipartisan (with scores, if not hundreds, of amendments and concessions to Republicans); and yet is more conservative than the healthcare plan proposed by GOP icon Richard Nixon.
And the Republicans have produced . . . what? Nothing. Nada. Zip.
So let’s give them the chance.
Have Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the Democrats throw down the gauntlet and challenge the Republicans to craft and propose a better healthcare bill. Let them know that health care reform cannot wait another year.
Tell them that the vote to pass the conference-reconciled healthcare bill will be postponed until October and the GOP has until August (6 months) to come up with something better. Let them prove the GOP is a party of ideas, and not just ideology.
If the Republicans can produce something that offers as much as the current Senate bill, then we will have September to incorporate the best parts of both bills for passage in October.
If they can’t come up with so much as that, then demand they allow the bill to come to a vote on the Senate floor. And tell them if they insist on obstructing health care reform that the Democrats will have no choice but to pass the current Senate bill in the house and then fix it afterwards with reconciliation in the Senate.
In other words, force the GOP to do something constructive.
. . . yeah, it’s a dream but it’s a nice one.
Tim (The Oher One)
I miss the good old days when we were one blowjob away from HCR.
mcc
So I just called Honda and Lofgren’s DC offices.
Lofgren, the aide didn’t have an answer at this time, but took down my address (like… street address) so he could mail me a response. Um, thanks.
Honda was a bit more interesting. I actually got Honda’s legislative director on the phone. She said Honda did not have a position on the Senate bill yet and actually said that Honda had not been asked by Pelosi to support the Senate bill. She hemmed and hawed when I asked about whether he’d support the Senate bill if asked, and pointed out there were a lot of problems Honda had with the Senate bill as opposed to the House bill.
(Also called Grijalva and Pelosi’s offices and made irritable noises, dunno what good it did.)
Comrade Scrutinizer
@El Cid: Sounds more like Frederick Forsythe, or maybe Robert Ludlum.
Morbo
@artem1s: It almost makes me wonder if this Onion video is actually true.
geg6
@General Winfield Stuck:
Um, no I read your whole comment the first time. You wrote your comment in such a way as to place the blame on the Blue Dogs, even if it wasn’t stated explicitly. I merely pointed out that you were wrong to imply it’s the Blue Dogs. And then you came back with your smartass bullshit once again. And you obviously think I’m too stupid to remember that people like me were saying they should make changes that were more likely to actually be, you know, “reform,” put it up for a floor vote, and then force the Blue Dogs and their wimpy friends to vote against it. And you were the self-appointed flamer of those of us who proposed such idiotic, self-defeating stuff and that we didn’t care about killing or bankrupting people, obviously.
You really are such a jackass sometimes. But don’t go around acting like you just thought that comment up. You were dead set against it and, even if no one else does, I remember that.
Robin G.
@El Cid: I was being sarcastic. I’m rather betting that the Dems will happily take the approach of, “Don’t worry, we’ll get to HCR in six months!” “No, really, six more months!” “I swear, just six months this time!” Punt, punt, punt…
cfaller96
Well, David, “breaking a filibuster” would require a lot of risk and chutzpah. It would require Harry Reid and the Democrats to change the rules to force Republicans to actually filibuster (i.e. to read the dictionary, War & Peace, etc. in order to prevent a vote on HCR). There would be a chance that Republicans would never be broken, but that in itself would be a pretty powerful demonstration to the American people- look at how willing the Republicans are to shut down our government because we want to reform health insurers and give everyone health care. It’s one thing to say it, it’s entirely another thing to show it, and I’d bet that the filibuster would wither and die after a week or so…and then you can pass whatever the hell you want!
That’s how I would do it. But Harry Reid is not me, and the Senate is not a place that puts a priority on getting things done. So here we are.
And let me add one final note- yes, the Dems “only” have 59 votes now and thus “can’t” really break a filibuster to do anything…BUT THAT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE UNACCEPTABLE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. To throw up your hands and say “we can’t do anything because the Republicans are thwarting our 18 seat majority” is bad, unwise, lazy, electoral suicide, etc. on soooooo many levels. That will NOT fly with anyone, so to suggest that Dems (of all stripes) should just accept that they can’t get anything done anymore is flatly unacceptable. Find another way to show the voters we still deserve our majorities, plzthx.
General Winfield Stuck
@geg6: Sorry you still have axes to grind, but you were the one that brought Kos diary comparing dems who supported the Iraq war. Up until then, I was coddling your self indulgent whining. Get over your precious self.
And my comment today had absolutely nothing to do with what happened weeks ago, nothing.
Robin G.
@El Cid re:Robin G.: Never mind, you were being sarcastic too. Internets fail.
geg6
@General Winfield Stuck:
Still think the Dems are so brave and wanting to stand up for the right thing? Still don’t see them as the cowards they were back then? And you have the balls to call ME self-indulgent and whining and in need of getting over myself? You were wrong then and you’re wrong now and if you can’t see the contradiction in how you acted then and all your whining the last few days over the Dems, you’ll never learn.
Yeah, because nobody thought of having them make the bill more liberal and forcing the Blue Dogs to vote up or down on it then. Nobody at all. Only you, with your brilliant and quick thinking thought of it, just today.
David
@cfaller96: Their majorities are why this has to be passed. Either the Democrats succeed in passing HCR and claim victory, or they fail. And involving the Senate is a recipe for failure, there is zero will there to address the filibuster.
General Winfield Stuck
Never said that. You need to pull yourself together Geg, you’re talking and thinking crazy. Those resentments will eat you alive if you let them.
And the only thing that has caused this is the Mass election, until then it was headed for completion with a some fixed bill for final vote.
geg6
@General Winfield Stuck:
The advice you seem to think I need is advice I think someone else should be taking. Look in a mirror.
We are done.
General Winfield Stuck
@geg6:
It is only fitting that you end it, having started it. :-)
scratches head
Brachiator
I guess I’m going to have to take a break from reading political threads. The Democrats won a huge victory back in November of 2008, but ever since have been acting as though George Bush is still president.
They are stuck on permanent “defer, cower and fear” mode. They jump at any opportunity to retreat. Pelosi, Reid, even Frank strike bold poses, but then lack any conviction.
Obama unfortunately feeding into this. I am not one of those who see him as just making pretty speeches. But if he starts out as saying that something (health reform, financial reform, etc) is important, only to back off and say “never mind,” he undermines his own authority.
Wake me when this bunch grow a pair (ovaries or testes, I ain’t no sexist).
Corner Stone
@Svensker:
I think she may be a little hungry and was really talking about FourthMeal
jayjaybear
It would just be wonderful once in a while to have that stock headline in every newspaper’s editorial office, “Democrats In Disarray”, NOT be true. Just, you know, once in a while…
Corner Stone
@El Cid:
The President agrees:
FlipYrWhig
@Comrade Scrutinizer: On second thought, Raoul was probably making an argument for doing the “reconciliation” tactic all along. But I don’t think there are even 50 votes for reconciliation, because of the “process” people like Byrd and Feingold who think it’s parliamentarily inappropriate, and because I still think that there are as many as 10 senators who lean against the whole idea and were using Lieberman and Nelson to give them cover. They don’t really have interest in getting the comprehensive bill done; they were willing to be team players in only two cases, zero defectors or just enough defectors so that nothing could pass.
In other words, vote number 51 is easy to give when you need 60 and _will_ get it; and vote number 51 is easy to give when you need 60 and _won’t_ get it; but vote number 51 might not be easy to give when you need 50 and _might_ get it.
David in NY
@Greg in Brooklyn:
“Yvette Clarke (D-NY11) … is getting a lot of calls in support of this”
Hey, I made some of those calls!!! Got told they were “reading the bill” and are “waiting for the leadership.” I said they only way shit was gonna get done (paraphrasing) was if they voted on the Senate bill … but they say they don’t know if it’s even going to be brought to the floor (and they don’t think they have anything to say about that which is probably true).
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: Do you mean that that quotation from Obama suggests that he would rather wait? Or that Pelosi and Reid would rather wait? I don’t see the connection.
les
@BTD:
Benen:
mandarama
@Stroszek:
I’m so sorry you have Wamp. I have Blackburn–not much better. Just a veneer of sanity.
I always call Cooper too, even though I’m not in his district. I just give a friend’s address.
Tsulagi
@El Cid:
Snowe would still complain telling them they’re going too fast. Don’t piss Olympia off, D-pols follow her lead.
@Henry Bayer: That more or less happened to a smaller degree on the Dorgan drug-reimportation amendment with the R-baggers, led by McCain, getting Rs to give it a majority vote, but not enough for cloture. Ds voted it down. There’s been some dark comedy in this whole process.
It’s kind of an across the board thing. Something the Ds can finally unite on. Two days ago…
The emphasis could be on “still,” but to be fair, Gibbs continued…
He didn’t say how many days expected, but going forward no doubt it’ll be one of them.
Lisa K.
@Corner Stone:
And you know he is just dying to say, IF YOU FUCKERS HAD TAKEN CARE OF THIS IN AUGUST LIKE I TOLD YOU TO, WE WOULD NOT BE IN THIS MESS NOW!
Lisa K.
@Tsulagi:
Christ, yes. A decade would be too fast for her.
Quiddity
@meh
You are correct that the Republicans can present a negative message effectively (e.g. death panels), but I don’t see what their positive (“elect me because …”) message is. At least with domestic politics. They may be able to ramp up the terror threat (and Iraq may have some unpleasant surprises this year), but what’s left? Tax cuts? Deregulation? Another round of social issues?
It seems as if the electorate is disenchanted with both parties. I expect very low turnout this November (teabaggers will show, but independents won’t). Maybe Obama can capture some of the populist spirit and rescue the Democrats. For those of us with long memories, it’s beginning to feel like “malaise” time (the country was in a funk: oil shocks, inflation and no one in Washington seemed to have a handle on the situation).
Sibelius
I just called Rep. Honda myself and got the same response as above. The aide that answered, after I identified myself and what I was calling about said “you and everyone else”. I was transferred to the legislative director who gave the spiel about not having an official position yet, waiting to see what the leadership is going to do, “he supports the house bill” etc. All I said is that time is short and there are no other options now other than passing the senate bill and fixing it.
I know everyone else has said it, but they really have no idea what to do. They sounded absolutely terrified that they are going to be forced to make a decision that might cost them their gigs one way or the other.
Apsalar
@Sasha:
Your plan only works if everyone is acting in good faith, which of course, the Republicans are not and never do. When the 6 months are up and it’s time to have an up or down vote on the original Senate bill, they’d find some other reason to delay (or they’d let Lieberman or one of the DINOs do it).
Also, I’m don’t think that Republicans want any sort of health reform at all. They can say they are, but the people they really represent have no problem with the status quo.
tomvox1
Well, Balloon Jucie Dems are not the only people placing calls, and so the premise that the Left is speaking with one voice here in favor of passing the bill and the House confusion is spontaneously generated is fallacious:
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/22/the-attack-on-progressives-who-wont-vote-for-the-senate-bill-has-begun/
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/22/van-hollen-senate-bill-is-irrevocably-tarnished/
When the DCCC chairman starts wetting his pants over the outcome of one 2-year Senate special election, the FDL-progressives are still looking to kill the bill and the GOS progressives are backing Krugman’s “pass the damn bill” entreaties, I can understand why the representatives are a trifle unsure.
And damnit if Obama hasn’t completely left the f’ing building on this issue. For me that is far and away the most disappointing part of this. I am really bummed about Barry. I feel like he really may be a big ol’ DLC wannabe p*ssy after all. I didn’t expect the second coming of FDR or anything but for chrissakes fight for your #1 priority, man!
John
@David:
Or, in this case, “I voted for it, and it did pass, but it didn’t become law because we couldn’t work out some minor disagreements.”
BTD
@les:
Benen is wrong as a mere click of the link he provides demonstrates.
les
@sparky:
By and large, people here don’t like what’s not in the bill. If the Senate bill passes, people will discover: no pre-existing condition shit; no lifetime caps; limited rescission; stipends; a baby step toward reining in ins. co. overhead/profit; no death panels; no gov’t. bureaucrat in the doctor’s office; etc. Stuff they will, ya know, like. They won’t ever give it up–they’ll scream to have bad stuff fixed, to have competition so they can get the policy their cousin has a couple of states over, and on. This bill is a shit sandwich only compared to the fucking steak we all wanted up front.
silentbeep
Well, I am going to say something that may be a little unpopular but look: the election happened on Tuesday, it’s now Friday, and we are talking about organizing dozens of people with a myriad of takes and positions, with a coherent message, in like two days.
I know the window is closing and I get the dismay. But, I’m gonna wait and see for next week at least. Before this whole mess happened, they were talking about pushing this thing through in February anyway. I understand extenuating circumstances should probably move the calender up a little, but I’m not prepared to give up after 72 hours. Not just yet…But who knows? I may have to eat my words soon enough. Just not yet.
les
@BTD:
From the link:
AFL/CIO says the same thing, but leans harder on concurrent fixes.
You can play all the asshole word games you want. The unions are on the page. The unions see the current situation as pass the bill and fixes. They are not “kill the bill.”
BTD
@les:
“Fixed right away” may mean something to you that it does not mean to me.
It certainly does not mean “fix it later.”
But look, I’m sure you want to believe that the unions are all for passing the bill stand alone. I doubt nothing I say will convince you otherwise
BTD
@les:
BTW, I never said they were “kill the bill.”
silentbeep
@tomvox1:
Oh yes, I hear you about the fighting. I was always a fan of the calm, cool and collected style but this approach is not a strength in every single situation. I keep waiting for him to pivot and start using the “sting” part in his “float like a butterfly sting like a bee” m.o.
Liberty60
FWIW, I called Rep. Loretta Sanchez’s office (CA-47) and was told she supports the Senate bill, but wished to see modifications to it.
I ended up yelling- politesly, but still yelling- that her constituent wished her to vote yes on SOMETHING, to prevent the entire progressive agenda from collapsing.
John
An actual piece of encouraging news!
E. J. Dionne writes that the congressional leadership is working on a plan for proceeding:
1) The House passes a bill through budget reconciliation to fix the things they don’t like about the Senate bill
2) The Senate slightly amends the bill in ways agreed upon with the house, and then passes it under reconciliation, thus sending it back to the senate for approval.
3) The Houses passes the Senate health care bill
4) The Houses passes the Senate reconciliation amendments.
Dionne says that he’s “been told reliably…that leaders of both Houses are considering” this. He goes on to point out some problems, but it certainly seems like a plan.
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
Did the president and the Congressional leadership really not expect any opposition?
And if health care reform has really been a long cherished dream of Democrats, I don’t understand why they did not have a more coherent plan outline ready to go. Hell, I know no reporter or pundit can be bothered with anything as boring as facts and background, but I wonder fer xample, how the current plan differs from or improves upon the Clinton plan.
The irony is that when Bush and the Republicans came into power, they came ready with a to-do list. Everything on their list was crap, but they were ready to roll. The Democrats act like they still can’t believe that they won.
The double irony is that the Republicans had no grand strategy to defeat the Democrats, and their influence outside the Beltway and Fox News is greatly over-stated. The Democrats have largely no one but themselves to blame for their bonehead stumbles — and they don’t even have the courage to admit their own mistakes.
tomvox1
@silentbeep:
And I’m sincerely worried that he’s more Floyd Patterson than Muhammad Ali–good but nowhere near good enough.
Sasha
@Apsalar:
Of course the GOP wouldn’t have a plan. That’s the point: They’ll look like idiots for being called out and not producing jack.
And since the original Senate bill was already passed, they can’t obstruct it in the Senate. All it would require is House passage for it to become law.
tomvox1
@Brachiator:
Without 9/11, Bush would have rolled all the way back to Crawford having accomplished jack and shit in his one term. Context matters.
Which is not to say that once 9/11 happened, those MFers didn’t ride that good ol’ “They’re Trying To KILLLLLL YOU!” moment all the way to a movement conservatives wettest dream.
In any case, a pep talk by Obama on why this whole thing still matters as much as it did last week would be nice…
Scott P.
The problem is that any motion to change the rules is, you guessed it, subject to filibuster. The sole exception is the passage of the rules at the beginning of each Congress, which is by majority vote.
So the _only_ time you can get rid of the filibuster by majority vote is at the beginning of a Congress.
Now, there is the “nuclear option” developed by the Republicans. The Senate can pass a point of order resolving that the filibuster is unconstitutional by majority vote.
Malron
HAHA great cartoon.
Dr. Morpheus
@David:
Oh, but David, (this is the best part), the Firebaggers know the Democrats will lose this fall. It’s all part of the plan.
Then things in this country will get REALLY bad. The “People” will “wake up” and…
Ta-da! Congress will be filled with Kuciniches, Weiners, and Graysons from every state.
That’s when we get our magical ponies.
Over the bodies of about a quarter of a million people who will die in the meantime from lack of medical insurance.
A small price for the purest of victories later.
Jon
Just send this to as many Repubs as possible. Every one you get will be so so so sweet. (For the non-internet savvy, do NOT go to the url suggested in the image)
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs216.snc1/8321_867857045449_8834963_49151675_5714335_n.jpg
LongHairedWeirdo
Lindsay Beyerstein (Majikthise) points out the obvious: If Pelosi says “we’ll pass it” it means she loses her power to tell Reid “It’s up to you to promise me X and Y concessions during reconciliation. Give me those promises, and you’ll get your vote.”
sparky
@cfaller96: well, yes, that is all *possible*. but i note that now supposedly there is some promise of fixing things. absent a guarantee in writing, all that is is blather. i understand, but after a year of pretty word pictures followed by crap, i’m not buying into it any longer. and i think it is a mistake for the people here to buy into it as well. i think y’all are gonna get rolled.
and as for explaining this bill and people liking it–???? there is NOTHING to like about it from the standpoint of the uninsured, and every time i look at it i find some other bomb in it.
ex: the uninsured–there’s a 5B cap on expenses. that’s it. HHS is explicitly authorized to deny coverage if expenses go above that amount. how that is universal coverage is beyond me.
sparky
@Dr. Morpheus: mmm smells like strawmen. and where, might i ask were you all during the last, o, 20 years when the same results obtained every year?
if you disagree, fine. i can understand that. but ad hominems that make you feel good don’t really answer the questions.
sparky
@les: see my post above.
as i keep trying to say, i don’t think so.
exhibit b:
want more? this language appears at the end of the section authorizing the uninsured pool.
believing something is there when it isn’t is like believing there are WMDs in Iraq. in 2006.
Brachiator
@tomvox1:
Equally important, the Democrats were too frightened to stand up to the Republicans, and too willing to let the GOP get away with Bush’s “with us or against us” BS.
Obama has needlessly squandered a good deal of political capital. I’m still in his corner, but now it is more important than ever for him to come up with good plans and back them. Even a defeat can be respected if the battle is hard fought.
sparky
know what i really like? that the insurance companies are guaranteed at least a 20%/25% profit, unless of course they convince HHS that the market is not competitive enough. in that case they get *more*. this is a better racket than GS has!
gotta hand it to the Senate drafters–only they could caption a section saying “ensuring that consumers receive value” and then, in the same section! make that concern *the very last* factor to consider in setting profits. kudos!
Uriel
@Stroszek:
Actually, several of the models I ‘ran,’ as it were, accounted for this variable by having the newly risen Lion of the Senate exploding Lieberman’s head, alla scanners, with the lasers in his eyes, kicking the corpse unceremoniously to the ground, and unilaterally declaring Noam Chomsky the senior senator from Connecticut. Dodd complained a bit, but Ted just flipped him the bird and said “He who transplanted can still sustain my liver spotted ass, mother-fucker. Now get back to work.” and, you know, what could Dodd do?
And yet, the exciting adventures of a quirky math genius and his brother, Special Agent Dr. Joel Fleischman, ran uninterrupted- apart from brief minute long bits of helpful advice from our corporate overlords.
But, again, I’m probably forgetting something.
Old Fart
Perfect example of how they listen.
You asked where and she replied…when.
Tax Analyst
…Maybe your meds? j/k
lol
Mnemosyne
@sparky:
Did you miss the “prior to 2014” part in what you quoted, or just not remember what the word “prior” means?
PTirebiter
@sparky:
I’m late to the party again, and I can’t speak for Morpheus, but I know where I’ve been for the last thirty years. If you believe the results have stayed the same, I have to ask where you have been?
Uriel
@Tax Analyst:
But see, that’s exactly what I’m saying!
I understand that this exact issue you mention here should have been tided up and put to bed by now- I mean, sheesh how many days do they need, four? Five? But I’m just not getting the mechanism. Some minor but obvious point keeps escaping me….
Unfortunately, I took a nap and missed ‘Numbers’, so maybe the piece I’m missing was somehow addressed there, in a special news update or something.
;)
FlipYrWhig
@sparky:
Is this likely to happen? I have no idea. Do you? I find attempting to read the law impossible, but I’m not trained in it. Also, it sounds like most of what you’re picking up on is tied to the moments of transition from the current stupid system to the would-be new, would-be less-stupid system, rather than the final state of affairs.