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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Forget What I Said

Forget What I Said

by Tim F|  January 27, 201010:00 am| 103 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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We are probably screwed in the Senate.

The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, deflected questions about health care. “We’re not on health care now,” Mr. Reid said. “We’ve talked a lot about it in the past.”

He added, “There is no rush,” and noted that Congress still had most of this year to work on the health bills passed in 2009 by the Senate and the House.

HCR will only get harder the closer we get to election time. That lack of urgency you hear is a signal that Reid and a substantial part of his caucus wants to give up entirely.

Call your Representative and tell him or her to pass the damn bill. 202-224-3121.

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103Comments

  1. 1.

    Kryptik

    January 27, 2010 at 10:03 am

    You know the problem with procrastination?

    The longer you put something off, the harder it becomes to get it done.

    Reid knows this. He just cast a death sentence on passing any sort of health bill. Fuck ’em.

  2. 2.

    dan

    January 27, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Don’t you get it, man? Harry is playing 11 dimensional chess! Psych! Healthcare by Valentine’s Day!

  3. 3.

    LarsThorwald

    January 27, 2010 at 10:05 am

    The jig was up last week. Health care reform is dead. Watch how little attention it gets tonight.

    I am a Democrat, but Jesus Christ, this is rapidly becoming a big, big test of loyalty.

  4. 4.

    stevie314159

    January 27, 2010 at 10:06 am

    At this point half the left wants it to fail, so the magical health care pony can be passed next year.

    The other half wants it to fail since they’ve already programmed their keyboard macros for F6=”Obama sucks” and F9=”Democrats suck” and of course F12=”Rahm!”.

  5. 5.

    Face

    January 27, 2010 at 10:07 am

    I said back in October we’d never see a HCR bill. I honestly didnt expect such a craven capitulation (I envisioned more Lieberman backstabbing), but I’m not one bit shocked at this non-outcome.

    Our legislative body is 100% sold to corporations. We’re basically fucked.

  6. 6.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    January 27, 2010 at 10:08 am

    The biggest enemies of progress and reform in this country aren’t the 25% of the population that’s batshit, wingnut, teabagging insane, it’s Democratic “leaders” like Harry Reid.

    I think I’ll go bang my head against a brick wall the rest of the day in an attempt to feel better.

  7. 7.

    r€nato

    January 27, 2010 at 10:08 am

    If I were an independent voter not committed to either party, WHY THE HELL WOULD I VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS IF THEY CAN’T GET THIS DONE?

    What else would they have to point to this fall as a reason to re-elect them? The awesome job they’ve done with the economy? All the new jobs created?

    For chrissakes. These people cannot possibly be that dumb. You don’t get to Congress by being an idiot (generally speaking…) so I am loathe to call them idiots. But really, what part of this do they not understand? They no longer have Bush to run against… so why would anybody vote for them if they can’t get health care done? They look like they have been just wasting time for the last year.

    Seriously… why would people who are not dyed-in-the-wool Democrats vote for them?

  8. 8.

    danimal

    January 27, 2010 at 10:11 am

    It’s a negotiating posture. “No rush” means “take it or leave it, Nancy.” It also keeps the tea partiers off the Senate lawn. I’d be surprised if there isn’t some effort behind the scenes to line up 50 votes for some minimal changes to the current Senate bill. The Nebraska provision, for example, is pretty embarrassing these days.

  9. 9.

    Kryptik

    January 27, 2010 at 10:12 am

    @r€nato:

    Because they’re even more committed to hippie punching than the Republicans. At least the right has habit and reflex to blame. Dems just do it out of craven idiocy and faulty political triangulation.

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    You’d think Reid would be much more audacious, considering he has so little left to lose. He’s damned if he does, damned if he don’t, much like Dems in general are. So why not do, dammit? You’re gonna be called horrible commie hippies bent on destroying America anyways, so why not actually take that ball and run with it a little, rather than punting at the opponent’s 10 yard line?

    @danimal:

    If he thinks “no rush” will keep the teabaggers off their cases, then he’s stupider than I imagined.

  10. 10.

    Napoleon

    January 27, 2010 at 10:13 am

    @r€nato:

    Seriously… why would people who are not dyed-in-the-wool Democrats vote for them?

    Why would people who ARE dyed-in-the-wool Democrats (assuming they don’t draw a pay check in politics) vote for them? HCR goes down I litterally have no reason to waste my time voting. The party stands for nothing. They are nothing but the Washington Generals of politics.

  11. 11.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 27, 2010 at 10:14 am

    If I were an independent voter not committed to either party, WHY THE HELL WOULD I VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS IF THEY CAN’T GET THIS DONE?
    What else would they have to point to this fall as a reason to re-elect them? The awesome job they’ve done with the economy? All the new jobs created?

    Why can they not get this? It’s so goddam frustrating. School uniforms! Spending Freeze! Yeah, that’ll work.

  12. 12.

    r€nato

    January 27, 2010 at 10:15 am

    @Napoleon:

    I’m left with, the only reason I have left to vote for them is that the Republicans are even worse.

    But choosing between ‘even worse’ and ‘not as bad but as completely useless as Bob Dole without his Vi*agra’ is not much of a choice.

  13. 13.

    Nicole

    January 27, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I hate Harry Reid.

    Also; called Rangel’s office this morning (also faxed a letter last week)- his staff member says he’s in favor of voting for the bill. I said thank you and said to tell him to lean on his fellow Congresspeople to do the same.

  14. 14.

    r€nato

    January 27, 2010 at 10:16 am

    The Democrats are the Phoenix Suns of politics.

    (For the past two months, the Suns have made a habit of blowing double-digit leads and losing the game)

  15. 15.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    January 27, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Chin up gang! Ben Nelson and Joementum are still holding out hope for a bipartisan approach.

    Centrist Democratic senators have circumvented party leadership to approach Maine GOP Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins about reviving healthcare talks.
    …
    Democrats such as Sens. Blanche Lincoln (Ark.), Bill Nelson (Fla.) and Max Baucus (Mont.) have approached Snowe within the past week to discuss her potential support for various healthcare proposals.

    But this is my favorite.

    Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.), an Independent who caucuses with Democrats, has had several general discussions with Collins, who said she would consider supporting a scaled-down version of healthcare reform.

    Ratfucker.

  16. 16.

    El Cid

    January 27, 2010 at 10:18 am

    As a collective, the administration and party leadership appear to be guilty of persistent political malpractice against their own party and much of the interests of the American people, but of course we’re likely to just keep telling average people that they ought to think about things however we want them to.

  17. 17.

    Kryptik

    January 27, 2010 at 10:19 am

    @r€nato:

    I thought of them more as the Mets.

    Everything going for them, absolute every reason to expect that they can make the Fall Classic, especially with successes in the recent past, and they bungle in an embarrassingly public way. Heroes one year, jokes the next.

  18. 18.

    El Cid

    January 27, 2010 at 10:19 am

    By the way, Democrats should run on the argument that if we only gave them 67 Senators, then they’d work hard to find a new excuse to not get anything done.

  19. 19.

    Napoleon

    January 27, 2010 at 10:20 am

    @Napoleon:

    A PS to my post. The fact that Reid/Democratic Senators/The White House are now trying to line up having a conservative Republican, Ben B., go through on a straight 50+1 vote margin when a bunch of other Obama nominees, like liberal Dawn Johnson have not been brought up to a vote because they do not have 60, not to mention HCR had to go through with 60, tells you everything you need to know. Our “own team” unilaterally has determined that they should spot the other team points.

  20. 20.

    Lisa

    January 27, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Please can someone get rid of this pointless douchebag? Where the hell are the Republicans when you need them to impeach someone?

  21. 21.

    suzanne

    January 27, 2010 at 10:23 am

    @r€nato:

    Don’t insult my Suns like that.

    This is more akin to Kurt Cobain blowing his brains out at the apex of his popularity and creativity, with a baby to take care of.

  22. 22.

    Tomlinson

    January 27, 2010 at 10:24 am

    @Napoleon:

    Why would people who ARE dyed-in-the-wool Democrats (assuming they don’t draw a pay check in politics) vote for them? HCR goes down I litterally have no reason to waste my time voting. The party stands for nothing. They are nothing but the Washington Generals of politics.

    Bingo.

    I despise the wingnutty side of the republican party, but if the dems can’t get this done, it’s clear as hell that I’d better work to get better republicans, because the dems are, simply, ineffective. They may have better ideas, their hearts may be in a better place, but all of that means jack-all unless they can get something done. And by something, I mean solving something they’ve worked on for a year, something that is one of the largest issues facing this country, and something that is well within their grasp. HCR.

    So, better republicans would be a better choice. And that is where my money will go.

  23. 23.

    gypsy howell

    January 27, 2010 at 10:25 am

    You’d think Reid would be much more audacious, considering he has so little left to lose. He’s damned if he does, damned if he don’t, much like Dems in general are. So why not do, dammit?

    Because the end game for any legislator in Washington, after sucking up huge amounts of payola in campaign fundraising, is to position oneself for enrichment through future employment with the lobbyists. So simple, I’m surprised you ask.

    In light of the recent Supreme Court decision, does anyone out there honestly still believe that legislators are in any way motivated by what the voters want? It’s all about what the corporations want.

    What’s even more depressing to me this week is that short of an actual armed revolution, I can’t see how we’re going to change this. Even IF we could vote in a few more good guys, the rewards for our legislators voting against the best interests of the citizens in favor of corporate profits are much too overwhelming. And I don’t think we’re anywhere near actual armed rebellion. It appears we are going to sink much much lower. I don’t want it to get to that point, but I honestly don’t see where else this country is going.

  24. 24.

    Lisa K.

    January 27, 2010 at 10:25 am

    @LarsThorwald:

    I am a Democrat, but Jesus Christ, this is rapidly becoming a big, big test of loyalty.

    And I have to tell you, it is one I, a 30 year party loyalist, am failing. If they do not get this done, I am finished with them as a party.

    Go Green.

  25. 25.

    inkadu

    January 27, 2010 at 10:28 am

    The fierce urgency of whatever.

    What sucks is the people who will die or go bankrupt for lack of healthcare, but that congressional healthcare fiasco has so completely dominated the landscape that we only have old press clippings of Obama speeches on which to base the SOTU drinking game.

  26. 26.

    Lisa K.

    January 27, 2010 at 10:29 am

    @Tomlinson:

    So, better republicans would be a better choice. And that is where my money will go.

    At this point in the game, saying we need to get better Republicans is like an epidemiologist saying we need to get a better HIV virus. There is no such thing as a better Republican-even moderate Saint Olympia Snowe is nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They are all goons, IMO, it is just a matter of degree.

    So, no. Under absolutely no circumstances do I ever work for the benefit of any Republican. I will simply go to the FDL crazy side myself.

  27. 27.

    Camchuck

    January 27, 2010 at 10:29 am

    WTF Reid? The SEIU wants the bill passed. How the hell does Reid get stand a chance of being reelected without SEIU support, which surely relies on HCR being passed?

    Its not like Reid will earn a single anti-HCR voter by scuttling it now. PTDB!

  28. 28.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    January 27, 2010 at 10:29 am

    I wonder how many heart attacks Obama could cause on the Democratic side of the aisle tonight if he said “The Democratic Party will be defined by its ability to pass health care. Other than spending bills, I will not discuss any other legislation until a health care reform bill crosses my desk. Either the party lives by health care, or it dies by health care.”

    I don’t expect it, but it would be funny to watch Nelson’s face screw up into a little ball.

  29. 29.

    r€nato

    January 27, 2010 at 10:30 am

    @suzanne:

    they are my Suns too, and they are absolutely pathetic. If they cannot pull it together in the next month, then they should just blow up the team, fire Gentry, and prepare for the free agent market after this season.

    Of course, Kerr and Sarver are running the show so they’ll probably make a botch of that too.

  30. 30.

    Tomlinson

    January 27, 2010 at 10:31 am

    @inkadu:

    we only have old press clippings of Obama speeches on which to base the SOTU drinking game.

    Come now. Here are your keywords: “bipartisan”, “consensus”, “jobs”, “fiscal responsibility”, “middle class”, “working together”, “shared vision”

    Here’s what you won’t hear: “fight”, “determined”, “health care”, or at least not healthcare near the words “pass” and “this year”.

  31. 31.

    valdivia

    January 27, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Just FYI but every credible person on hcr thinks the NY Times piece went out of tis way to overstate the point. Either way keep calling, calling calling.

  32. 32.

    Kryptik

    January 27, 2010 at 10:32 am

    @Camchuck:

    I think Reid has accepted that he won’t be re-elected.

    However, as gypsy pointed out, rather than go out guns blazing, he’s gone full bore Stockholm Syndrome in hopes of being shown mercy after he’s kicked out.

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    You’d have impeachment articles drawn up by midnight. But at least we’d see just how little of a ‘majority’ we actually have when those lines are drawn.

  33. 33.

    Tomlinson

    January 27, 2010 at 10:33 am

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    “The Democratic Party will be defined by its ability to pass health care. Other than spending bills, I will not discuss any other legislation until a health care reform bill crosses my desk. Either the party lives by health care, or it dies by health care.”

    I think the chance of him taking an actual stand on anything, but most especially HCR, are pretty much the same as the chance that it’s going to rain unicorns tonight.

    But we can hope.

  34. 34.

    Malron

    January 27, 2010 at 10:34 am

    The House needs to pass the damn bill and quit trying to save face by claiming they can’t do it because they can’t get the senate to promise to fix it later. If they passed it the president could sign it the same day… but NOOOOOOOOOOO! The House would rather waste days if not weeks trying to claim helplessness. Meanwhile, more time is wasted that could be better spent on other pieces of legislation.

  35. 35.

    Tomlinson

    January 27, 2010 at 10:38 am

    There is no such thing as a better Republican-even moderate Saint Olympia Snowe is nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They are all goons, IMO, it is just a matter of degree.

    I don’t disagree, but they are the only goons we have. The other goons may talk a good game, but they apparently can’t do shit.

    So we’d better fix the effective goons.

  36. 36.

    eastriver

    January 27, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Craig Kilborne would’ve passed it by now.

  37. 37.

    ChrisB

    January 27, 2010 at 10:39 am

    @Kryptik: Damn it, you beat me to it. And they’re not like the ’62 Mets, who apparently were lovable and often humorous. They’re like the 2009 Mets, who were an embarassment and a disgrace. Or maybe like the 2007 and 2008 Mets, who completely collapsed on the verge of accomplishing something.

    I’m hoping this is just an attempt to get the House to just pass the damn bill but I don’t think so. I think they’re just fucking giving up.

    Shitheads.

  38. 38.

    Napoleon

    January 27, 2010 at 10:39 am

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    That is exactly what he should say, but I think at this point it is pretty clear he completely lacks the leadership ability and balls to lay out a clear “f-you, you do what I say or the electorate will clear you out and if I have to go down with the ship becuase of it, so be it”.

  39. 39.

    The Other Steve

    January 27, 2010 at 10:41 am

    This may just be the first year I don’t vote.

  40. 40.

    aimai

    January 27, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Wow, what happened here since last night? Where are all the true blue-ies to explain to us all that we are all just FDL/Right wing ratfuckers in disguise?

    I think I’m just a contrarian, at this point, but I can’t take anything the Senators say seriously as a real reflection of what is going on. They don’t have the slightest sense that they are being watched, or listened to. They come out on the steps of wherever they are and they bleat something out into the ether and go back to doing whatever they were going to do. Reid doesn’t “mean” anything by anything he says. Everything is going on behind closed doors. That doesn’t mean anything good for reform, but it doesn’t mean anything bad for reform either.

    For serious political activists who are concerned about getting the vote out next time around, in a few months (essentially) the democratic senators and congressmen who don’t get the urgency are, of course, helping to kill off the party’s chances. But its really clear that the majority of dems in the house and senate don’t think about this corporately at all–or only sporadically. We are more anxious about the fate of the party than they are. We are also more wedded to actually doing stuff with power than they are.

    I don’t despair–maybe because I”m reading a book on the black death and anything less than the loss of one third of humanity looks pretty good to me.

    aimai

  41. 41.

    Lisa K.

    January 27, 2010 at 10:42 am

    @Tomlinson:

    I don’t disagree, but they are the only goons we have. The other goons may talk a good game, but they apparently can’t do shit. So we’d better fix the effective goons.

    No. You are talking about giving aid and comfort to an insane, bloodthirsty, power mad group of people who Dick Cheney proved can be herded like sheep towards the most diabolical of ends. If we were to do as you suggested, we would end up in a fascist dictatorship right out of Sinclair Lewis. I for one will not be a party to that. Forget you even thought it.

  42. 42.

    gypsy howell

    January 27, 2010 at 10:42 am

    The House needs to pass the damn bill and quit trying to save face by claiming they can’t do it because they can’t get the senate to promise to fix it later. If they passed it the president could sign it the same day…

    I swear to god, I am so disillusioned with Obama at the moment that it wouldn’t surprise me if he figured out some reason to veto it if it ever were to come across his desk.

    Actions speak louder than words, and judging by his (in)action on this, I am feeling very foolish for believing he ever had any intention of passing a health care bill. Do you think they’re actually laughing at us in the White House these days?

  43. 43.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    January 27, 2010 at 10:45 am

    @Napoleon: The one thing I’m torn about is this: How do you scare the Democrats without totally screwing us over? There are very few politicians – including Dems – that truly understand the living day-to-day, being scared of losing health care at any time. The Dems, at least most of them, are empathetic, even if they don’t exactly know how it feels. But if they lose their job, they won’t have to worry about being poor.

    But, right now, what would replace them would be the worst thing that could happen. So, we’re kind of stuck.

  44. 44.

    Rick Taylor

    January 27, 2010 at 10:46 am

    __

    “We’ve talked a lot about it in the past.”

    __
    Yup, you’ve talked quite a bit about it. You haven’t actually passed any bills into law yet, but you’ve certainly done a lot of talking, so I guess it makes sense to move on to and talk about something else at this point.
    __
    I’m not generally part of the Reid-must-be-fired chorus; the senate is awful and up until now I’ve been willing to assume he’s doing a decent job given the obstacles he faces. But when I hear this I want to scream.

  45. 45.

    Brien Jackson

    January 27, 2010 at 10:48 am

    @Napoleon:

    Well no, it doesn’t tell you much of anything. Senate leadership has been trying to make the case that the caucus should vote for cloture on everything since Specter defected, and the Bayh/Landrieu/Nelson axis laughed in their face. The only thing different now is that it appears the Democrats opposing Bernanke agree that they should vote for cloture, even if they vote against him.

  46. 46.

    Nicole

    January 27, 2010 at 10:50 am

    I faxed to my Senators an angry letter telling them that if they think Massachusetts was disappointing, just wait and see what happens in November if HCR falls apart. I’m sure it will do jack-squat, but you know, this thing is teaching me you might as well tell the people you elected about the crummy job they’re doing, rather than just bitch about it to your like-minded friends.

  47. 47.

    gypsy howell

    January 27, 2010 at 10:54 am

    I’m not generally part of the Reid-must-be-fired chorus;

    If Reid were fired (he won’t be, but for the sake of argument) who do you think would be made Majority Leader? They’d probably get all bi-artisany about it and select Lieberman. And only because it would be a step down for President McCain.

  48. 48.

    madmatt

    January 27, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Well of course they don’t care, they have unlimited healthcare for life and sinecures with ins companies if they lose the election….where is the upside in passing it?

  49. 49.

    meh

    January 27, 2010 at 10:57 am

    fuck em – fuck em all. they. do. not. give. a. shit. PERIOD. All they have to do is pass a bill that is more moderate than the one they already passed but are afraid to. They don’t understand that they are toast already but are too fucking scared to go down swinging. Fuck em – i’m giving the crazy motherfuckers $100

  50. 50.

    Charity

    January 27, 2010 at 10:57 am

    I am calling Senator Durbin and Burris everyday this week to the pressure on.

    I called my rep, Rep. Schakowsky, all last week and was very happy to see her coming out and supporting passing the Senate’s plan yesterday. I’m calling her office today to thank her.

    Calls do work! Keep calling folks!

  51. 51.

    slackjawedgawker

    January 27, 2010 at 10:58 am

    I hope the Senate Dems wake up and realize that they’re much better off picking a Leader from a blue state rather than a purple one.

    I despise Schumer, but I think he might be the guy they hand the reins to, and at least he won’t feel his constituency pulling him (and thus the entire Senate) back to the middle on _every_ issue.

  52. 52.

    Napoleon

    January 27, 2010 at 10:58 am

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    The problem is unless you signal you are willing to go to the mat to replace them, in my case that would be with better democrats, and suffer the loss if need be, they will never take you seriously.

    IMO that is one of the huge problems with Obama. It was pretty clear months ago that he will not go to the mat (not even with the Republicans let alone clowns in the Dem camp), and that being the case whenever people like Nelson and Baucus are making whatever calculations they make when doing whatever they do, do not need to account for that. Obama can partially correct that in the Financial reform debate by taking on some of the Dems who want to slow walk it, but it is already to late for HCR. The best he could do there is make a strong show of support in his speach tonight.

  53. 53.

    Kryptik

    January 27, 2010 at 10:58 am

    @gypsy howell:

    Nah, even Senate Dems are a bit bitter with Lieberman. Not as much as sane Dems, but…yeah.

    My guess? Ben Nelson. That’s a good, solid, bi-partisan choice. Or maybe Baucus, for all his good work on that compromise bill.

  54. 54.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Noooooooooooo, don’t do this to me! I just posted about it!

    Also, I think it’s a good idea to call anyway. Honestly, if we’re going to call Republicans just to let them know that we’re out here (which I think we should), we should definitely call Senate Democrats.

    To borrow the words of Dr. King: We mustn’t make hasty judgments which are blind to the necessity of social progress, and must recognize that social change will not come overnight, yet work as though it is an imminent possibility. (Yes, I’m still reading that damn book. Sorry).

  55. 55.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    January 27, 2010 at 11:00 am

    @aimai:

    What she said.

    I’ve also found that reading history books is a tonic for despair over contemporary events. Given how things have been going recently, I may need to get a bigger house to fit all the history books in.

  56. 56.

    John S.

    January 27, 2010 at 11:00 am

    If Reid were fired (he won’t be, but for the sake of argument) who do you think would be made Majority Leader?

    Reid is going to be fired by the people of Nevada.

    I think Chuck Schumer would be next in line for Majority Leader after Reid gets Daschled. I think he will do a MUCH better job.

  57. 57.

    ChristianPinko

    January 27, 2010 at 11:01 am

    If health care reform fails, it should not be because WE gave up.

    Our Senators are cowards. It’s time to make them fear us.

    Light up the Senate switchboard and demand that they cooperate with the House.

  58. 58.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:01 am

    @ChristianPinko: What the Christian pinko said.

  59. 59.

    aimai

    January 27, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Just got off the phone with Kerry’s phone intern. She was so cute I wanted to reach through the phone and pinch her cheeks. I think I understood her to say that Kerry supported reconciliation to fix the senate bill and hoped the house would pass the senate bill and trust them all. She seemed to think he’d come out strongly in favor of reconciliation. I asked her, just for fun, whether Kerry had spoken to brown about being a good soldier for MA and working with the Dems and she said he had but they had no idea if Brown would be willing to do so. Fair enough. I didn’t expect anything else.

    aimai

  60. 60.

    Bobby Thomson

    January 27, 2010 at 11:06 am

    A bit of a disconnect, no? Identifying the Senate as the problem and then asking readers to punch hippies call their Representatives?

  61. 61.

    Kryptik

    January 27, 2010 at 11:08 am

    @Bobby Thomson:

    I think that comes from writing off the Senate as a lost cause. Which, if Reid’s example is a clue, it probably is.

  62. 62.

    meh

    January 27, 2010 at 11:08 am

    @ChristianPinko:

    They don’t care – they simply don’t care. They see it as a no-win situation for them. If they go along with the concurrent reconcilliation bill, they have to worry about unfettered corporate money attacking them next reelection. If they don’t go along with it, they have to worry about their constituents going after them for it. Between those two groups, I’m sure the specter of unregulated amounts of corporate money are far scarier then a bunch of whiney hippies and lower middle class peons. They simply don’t give a shit what you think. They have a Senate Pension and healthcare for life.

    I, for one, am getting off this particular crazy train and hoping aboard the GOP crazy train. I figure that they have worn me down and turned me into what they always said I was – an American hating, Democracy hating DFH – so, I might as well do my best to get the fucking crazy guys elected so that they can go about destroying the country that I have so much righteous anger towards at this point – I mean, come on, do you really want to live in a country where the populace is so fucking gullible that they believe the President of United States is a secret muslim (while screaming about Wright), that the health care bill had death panels, and Fox News is the most trusted name in news today? Wake the fuck up – America is a rotting corpse…lets make it burn.

    sorry for spelling mistakes…I just dont care enough to fix them

  63. 63.

    used to be disgusted

    January 27, 2010 at 11:08 am

    @aimai: Thanks for that. It incidentally contradicts something I read on a TPM comments thread about Kerry’s position.

    By all means call both the Senate and the House. I couldn’t get Burris or Durbin to state a firm position.

  64. 64.

    Malron

    January 27, 2010 at 11:09 am

    This whole inept dance shows that people in Congress care more about political cover than they do about actually getting shit done.

    Pass.
    The.
    Damn.
    Bill.

  65. 65.

    gypsy howell

    January 27, 2010 at 11:11 am

    @Kryptik:

    Maybe President Snowe would be interested?

  66. 66.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:13 am

    @used to be disgusted: I’m literally on the phone with Durbin’s office now! More in a bit.

  67. 67.

    Brien Jackson

    January 27, 2010 at 11:15 am

    So my guess is that either Reid just didn’t want to talk about it or the votes aren’t there for reconcilliation changes.

  68. 68.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Okee dokee!

    I just got off the phone with the Health Legislative Assistant in the office of Dick Durbin (IL), and she said very clearly that he still supports the Senate bill, he wants to see the House pass it, “but we’re waiting to see what happens tonight.” I said “The State of the Union address, right?” and she said yes. A couple of minutes later, I said something like “well, I can see that he would want to see how the leader of his party is planning on leading on this issue,” and she said “that is a major part of his thinking.”

    So I repeat: TRY TO CALL THE WHITE HOUSE TOO! I say “try,” because I’ve been trying and its damn hard to get through. But I’m going to try again.

    BTW: She, like the assistant in Rep. Danny Davis’s office a couple of days ago, was lovely and gracious and open and helpful. I am coming to really love the staffers in my elected officials’ offices this week!

  69. 69.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:21 am

    @used to be disgusted: Oh, and I called Burris too, and they took my message, but the Health Legislative Assistant was in a meeting. (I’m so glad that I’ve actually spoken with two such assistants this week, else I would be tempted to say “in a ‘meeting’ “. But now I suspect s/he was really in a meeting!)

  70. 70.

    aimai

    January 27, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Used to be disgusted:

    Yes, after I made my call I saw that comment over at TPM, so now I’m actually wondering exactly what I was told. I mean, I faithfully reported what she told me but there was something very rote and guarded about her response to my questions and she was clearly determined not to be drawn into any long drawn out thing. I wouldn’t put it past Kerry to be waffling on these issues. He’s a huge waffler in public because, well, I think its a personality trait as well as the distance that Senators keep from their constituents. They really do think they are royalty and that we are just there to stand by and hold their coats when they decide its time to fight.

    aimai

  71. 71.

    Sanka

    January 27, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Yes! Hurry! Call your congressman!! HURRY!!

    Only three in ten Americans say they want Congress to pass legislation similar to the health care reform bills that have already been approved by the House and Senate, according to a new national poll.

    A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey also indicates that nearly half the public, 48 percent, would like federal lawmakers to start work on an entirely new bill, and 21 percent feel Congress should stop working an any bills that would change the country’s health care system

    Good luck with that…

    Heckuva job Dems, you’re really proving that you can do a great job running the country.

    Next step? The big campaign strategy for 2010? Quick! Let’s ask our Republican opponents if they’re BIRTHERS!

    Great job…

  72. 72.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:27 am

    @Tomlinson:

    Come now. Here are your keywords: “bipartisan”, “consensus”, “jobs”, “fiscal responsibility”, “middle class”, “working together”, “shared vision”
    …
    Here’s what you won’t hear: “fight”, “determined”, “health care”, or at least not healthcare near the words “pass” and “this year”.

    Myself and Midnight Marauder have a little wager / drinking game going tonight if anyone else feels like compadre’ing it up with us.
    I have “bought” (that’s like in craps where you “buy” the 10) the term “humble” and all it’s variants. MM has “bought” any hint of a chance Obama is sticking a finger in the R’s eyesockets.
    I’m pretty sure I’m going to be fucking loopy waaayyy before MM ever gets to sniff a drink.
    So if anyone else wants in I think Tomlinson has a pretty good start to picking your spots….or your shots. Either way.

  73. 73.

    meh

    January 27, 2010 at 11:27 am

    @Sanka:

    This post is so full of win I don’t know where to start…good on you, Sir. Good on you.

  74. 74.

    Tomlinson

    January 27, 2010 at 11:28 am

    I said something like “well, I can see that he would want to see how the leader of his party is planning on leading on this issue,” and she said “that is a major part of his thinking.”

    Ladies and Gentlemen (and birthers), this tells everything you need to know about just how fucked the democrats are.

    This would be what is technically known as a “leadership vacuum.”

  75. 75.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:30 am

    @aimai:

    Wow, what happened here since last night? Where are all the true blue-ies to explain to us all that we are all just FDL/Right wing ratfuckers in disguise?

    Cole is laid up and can’t rally his O-bots by telling people they are wanking and he’s tired of it.

    But I say give them a little time. The cognitive dissonance will wera off and they will be back to full on mode soon enough. Happens every time.

  76. 76.

    bob

    January 27, 2010 at 11:31 am

    The Dems make good corporate money playing the “Good Cop” and sucking up all the money, motivation and time of their supporters. It’s a sweet deal for them.

    No matter how clear this role is made by their actions, most Dem supporters cannot see (or rather, accept) this fact. Instead they make up fantasies about Dem leaders “not having balls” or “ineffective” or “cowed” or “confused” etc.

    In actual fact, the Dem leadership is ballsy, strong, effective and clear-headed in it’s mission of playing Good Cop by falling down strategically while speaking sonorous tones to their “base.”

    Unfortunately, accepting this truth would mean Ralph Nader and his Progressive supporters were right … and the vicious internecine scapegoating prevents this possibility from being accepted.

    It’s gone for a long time. Far, far too long. Wars, Patriot Acts, Military Commissions, sham justice, FISA, torture, propaganda, rendition … it all bounces off the psychological-teflon that coats the mind of the scapegoating anti-Nader Dem activist. Everything the Dems do is Nader’s fault, everything the Dems don’t do is … yep, Nader’s fault. Scapegoating really does work, just like propaganda.

    It has been amazing to see. If by amazing you mean terrifying and horrifically disillusioning. Thanks, kos and fellow Nader-haters, the Republicans honestly could not have done this without you. I mean, even if you hate or disparage or misunderstand Progressive principles you shouldn’t steal the name and push actual Progressives in front of the Establishment scythe. For Goodness’ sake if nothing else.

  77. 77.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:32 am

    @Lisa K.:

    group of people who Dick Cheney proved can be herded like sheep towards the most diabolical of ends.

    To be fair, he proved this about D’s as well.

  78. 78.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    January 27, 2010 at 11:32 am

    @Brien Jackson:

    So my guess is that either Reid just didn’t want to talk about it or the votes aren’t there for reconcilliation changes.

    Or that he just doesn’t want to deal with the 10,000 amendments that the GOP will throw out to drag the whole thing out from here to hell and back. One of the problems with the Senate is that it takes time to get to the Senate in the first place, and longer to rise up through the ranks to the leadership. By the time they get there, they are for the most part old men – in this case tired old men who just don’t want to be bothered any more. It’s their lawn, and they just want us to get off of it. We need younger leaders, and it doesn’t help that Obama pulled Hillary and Biden out of the Senate to staff his administration.

  79. 79.

    Yossarian

    January 27, 2010 at 11:37 am

    If the Dems don’t at least TRY to ram this thing through, I’m not voting this year. I guess I can sort-of handle failure after a real effort, but if Reid’s comment means anything (and it may not, as aimai has pointed out) and the Senate really does pronounce itself exhausted with all the effort and thinking hard and voting stuff and doesn’t even try to push this thing through, I’m calling and/or writing the DNC and politely letting them know that I will be sitting out of the 2010 elections in a combination of despair and protest.

    Not that it will matter– I’m a DC resident. And I’ll hate to do it, in part because I know a lot of the DNC folks (staff) and they some of the smartest, hardest-working idealists and professionals I’ve ever had the pleasure of coming across. But they get screwed by bad leadership as much as the rest of us, so they’ll have to hear it.

  80. 80.

    growingdaisies

    January 27, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Harry Reid is a freaking idiot. As usual.

    Called my senators today. Sen. Mikulski of MD’s office says she has not taken a position yet. I urged her to support reconciliation.

    Sen. Cardin’s office says he is strongly supporting fixing the bill in reconciliation so the House can get it passed. So at least there’s one.

  81. 81.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:39 am

    @ellaesther:

    A couple of minutes later, I said something like “well, I can see that he would want to see how the leader of his party is planning on leading on this issue,” and she said “that is a major part of his thinking.”

    Are you telling us that Dick Durbin *does not know* how Obama plans to address the HCR issue?

  82. 82.

    Doug Z

    January 27, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Called Sen. Burris’ office. Slightly encouraging in that the staffer seemed to say that the House will pass the bill with “strong assurances” from the Senate and WH that it will be fixed, but that wouldn’t need to be done right away. Reconciliation (he said 51 senators) would be done at a later date.

    Don’t know how up to date that is, but there it is.

  83. 83.

    Shalimar

    January 27, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Napoleon:

    Our “own team” unilaterally has determined that they should spot the other team points.

    We don’t even have a team. We have hundreds of players who think they’re playing an individual sport, along with a few dozen who think their job is to help the other team win.

  84. 84.

    Svensker

    January 27, 2010 at 11:44 am

    @meh:

    Mr. Svensker, is that you?

  85. 85.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:45 am

    @Doug Z:

    Called Sen. Burris’ office. Slightly encouraging in that the staffer seemed to say that the House will pass the bill with “strong assurances” from the Senate and WH that it will be fixed, but that wouldn’t need to be done right away. Reconciliation (he said 51 senators) would be done at a later date.

    If *Dick Durbin* does not know what’s going on with HCR then how the hell would a dead duck like Burris know wtf is going to happen?

  86. 86.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:45 am

    @Corner Stone: Well, I’m telling you that that’s what she said, and given the tiny bit of what I know about how Presidents plan their STOU addresses (which is, I admit, not a lot), I think that’s entirely possible.

    Decisions about what would get emphasis, what would be highlighted and what back-burnered, those sorts of things, are often made up late in the day, and Presidents often want to have freedom from too much input from the Legislative branch in planning the address. After all, it’s an address to the Legislative branch.

  87. 87.

    Lisa K.

    January 27, 2010 at 11:46 am

    @Corner Stone:

    To be fair, he proved this about D’s as well.

    Maybe he just proved that politicians are weak and rudderless people who do not deserve our support no matter what letter is after their name.

    Revolution, anyone?

  88. 88.

    ellaesther

    January 27, 2010 at 11:50 am

    @Corner Stone: I’m also going to suggest that it’s entirely possible, given the POTUS’s relationship with Durbin, that Durbin does know, and he has (quite appropriately, given the address in question) not told his staffer.

  89. 89.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:51 am

    @bob:

    No matter how clear this role is made by their actions, most Dem supporters cannot see (or rather, accept) this fact. Instead they make up fantasies about Dem leaders “not having balls” or “ineffective” or “cowed” or “confused” etc.
    …
    In actual fact, the Dem leadership is ballsy, strong, effective and clear-headed in it’s mission of playing Good Cop by falling down strategically while speaking sonorous tones to their “base.”

    I agree witht his part of your sentiment. I’ve said for years that people who fall into the “incompetent, gutless, lazy, fearful Democrat” meme are fooling themselves.
    When looked at rationally, the outcomes we have seen and are currently seeing are much more easily explained by the straightline truth – this is the outcome they preferred. To wail away and scream that Reid has no balls, or the D leadership is incompetent is just hiding the truth.

    I would disagree with the sentiment that reflects Nader’s proposition there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between them. IMO if Gore had been President after 9-11 we would not have invaded Iraq. So I think that’s a little more than a dime’s worth right there.
    Otherwise the two parties are motivated by the same things, money, power, fame and a guaranteed future for themselves and their families.

    I’ll lay money down right now on where Reid will be working 2 years (or less) after he loses his re-election bid.
    That’s what it’s all about for 99% of them.

  90. 90.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:54 am

    @ellaesther:

    Decisions about what would get emphasis, what would be highlighted and what back-burnered, those sorts of things, are often made up late in the day, and Presidents often want to have freedom from too much input from the Legislative branch in planning the address. After all, it’s an address to the Legislative branch.

    I agree. I didn’t mean specifically how Obama will say the exact things in the SOTU tonight, but more like “Obama is going to push HCR tonight, and in our leadership meetings we know we want to pass this thing so X,Y,Z is the way we as D’s are going.”
    The fact that Durbin’s staffer was using it as the preferred shield just makes me scratch my head. Like they don’t know where Obama stands before the SOTU is over?

  91. 91.

    Corner Stone

    January 27, 2010 at 11:55 am

    @ellaesther:

    I’m also going to suggest that it’s entirely possible, given the POTUS’s relationship with Durbin, that Durbin does know, and he has (quite appropriately, given the address in question) not told his staffer.

    Yes, very possible of course.
    I still find it puzzling that that would be the phrase they are being told to use. But, eh, anything’s possible at this point.

  92. 92.

    Shalimar

    January 27, 2010 at 11:58 am

    @Doug Z:

    Reconciliation (he said 51 senators) would be done at a later date.

    I agree with the House progressives on this. Later isn’t good enough. I don’t trust Senate Dems to tie their own shoelaces in the morning, let alone fulfill their promises. If Reid ever shows any sign of leadership, then maybe that will change.

  93. 93.

    Sock Puppet of the Great Satan

    January 27, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    “Reconciliation (he said 51 senators) would be done at a later date.”

    And the check is in the mail.

    Fuck it. Now I understand why the House Democrats don’t trust their Senate counterparts.

  94. 94.

    Little Dreamer

    January 27, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    @r€nato:

    These people cannot possibly be that dumb. You don’t get to Congress by being an idiot

    Two words: Michelle Bachmann!

  95. 95.

    Shalimar

    January 27, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Like they don’t know where Obama stands before the SOTU is over?

    I’m guessing it’s more like Senate leadership doesn’t have the political capital or ability to get it’s members in line, so it depends entirely on how much capital Obama is willing to use getting it passed. Sure, Obama is for it, but that doesn’t mean he will do anything to help. His reluctance to use capital for anything progressive has been depressing.

  96. 96.

    Brien Jackson

    January 27, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Well, there ya go:

    In the Senate, Reid could lose nine members of his caucus and still pass the bill, as long as Vice President Joe Biden broke a 50-50 tie. Top Democrats, such as Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin, predicted Reid would find enough votes.

    But a POLITICO survey of senators Tuesday showed Reid could find himself scrounging.

    Reid’s spokesman, Jim Manley, declined to comment on whether the majority leader believes he can round up 51 votes.

    “We are still discussing next steps and options with the House, the White House and our caucus,” Manley said.

    Seven Senate Democrats and one independent, Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, cautioned that they were wary of using reconciliation to push ahead with health care reform. Some said the maneuver would show Americans that Democrats had not learned from the Massachusetts election.

    They’ve got Bayh, Landrieu, Ben Nelson, Lincoln, Pryor, Begich, McCaskill, and Lieberman poo-poohing the idea of using reconcilliation to fix the bill. So if you assume they’re all “no’s” for reconcilliation that leaves you with only 1 more vote to lose, and you’ve still got Webb, Feingold, and Byrd to account for. So it does not appear that the votes are there.

    Fuckheads.

  97. 97.

    Brien Jackson

    January 27, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    @Shalimar:

    If Reid ever shows any sign of leadership, then maybe that will change

    Oh sod off already. Foreign policy doesn’t work like neocons envision it does, and neither does whipping Senate votes.

  98. 98.

    John

    January 27, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    @Napoleon:

    HCR goes down I litterally have no reason to waste my time voting. The party stands for nothing. They are nothing but the Washington Generals of politics.

    How quickly we forget the Bush years. Even if the Democrats get absolutely nothing done, they’re at least not actively making things worse. Lesser of two evils, and so forth.

    Not that this excuses the Democrats for being pathetic losers, but after Bush, “not actively fucking people over” is a real, tangible good.

  99. 99.

    Lisa K.

    January 27, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    @r€nato:

    These people cannot possibly be that dumb. You don’t get to Congress by being an idiot

    Maybe not, but in Alaska at least it gets you the governorship.

  100. 100.

    Lisa K.

    January 27, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    @John:

    Not that this excuses the Democrats for being pathetic losers, but after Bush, “not actively fucking people over” is a real, tangible good.

    You cannot set the bar much lower than that, can you?

  101. 101.

    John S.

    January 27, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    @Sanka:

    A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey also indicates that nearly half the public, 48 percent, would like federal lawmakers to start work on an entirely new bill, and 21 percent feel Congress should stop working an any bills that would change the country’s health care system

    Not that I expect a dumb fuck troll like yourself to understand how to read a poll, but…

    Most of that 48 percent don’t think the bill does enough (they want MORE robust change) and the 21 percent are the usual teabaggers. So naturally in your world, this means all Americans are opposed to HCR.

  102. 102.

    Dr. Morpheus

    January 27, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    @The Other Steve:

    This may just be the first year I don’t vote.

    Great! Thanks for the resulting tyranny!

  103. 103.

    Dr. Morpheus

    January 27, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    @gypsy howell:

    I swear to god, I am so disillusioned with Obama at the moment that it wouldn’t surprise me if he figured out some reason to veto it if it ever were to come across his desk.

    Actions speak louder than words, and judging by his (in)action on this, I am feeling very foolish for believing he ever had any intention of passing a health care bill. Do you think they’re actually laughing at us in the White House these days?

    Why?

    What they hell would be the motivation? What would be the pay-off?

    Politically castrated for the rest of his term. Branded as a black Jimmy Carter in all the history books.

    There’s not going to be any wingnut welfare waiting for him at the end.

    What’s the upside for him in your scenario?

    STOP BEING HYSTERICAL!

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