I have to admit that there’s something to the strategy of lying to make big headlines, only to recant later when your bullshit has become conventional wisdom.
Try this out for yourself. The next time an uncle or someone at work claims that waterboarding works because someone at the CIA said so, point out that they guy who said so admits that he lied about it. Send the guy a link to Kirikaou’s original statements and a link to his recanting if you want. Think it’ll work?
For that one evening. Then the rebunking process will start again.
But the whole point really has nothing to do with whether or not torture is effective and I think most rational people understand that.
Of course not. And even if it did, the moran in question wouldn’t admit it. Tribal loyalty and all that, doncha know.
Pelosi just said (as reported by MSNBC?) that she *has* the votes to pass the Senate bill with changes.
Of course it won’t. Facts have a liberal bias and I’m quite certain that it’s already making the winger chain email rounds that he was forced to recant his story or lose his pension now that a damn liberal is running the CIA.
The question doesn’t survive the asking.
Not in any meaningful sense, because I never thought that it was actually about whether torture was effective. That’s always been one of many excuses that people who want us to torture “bad people” use to justify their opinions.
Also, @Corner Stone: ‘s comments about the rebunking process starting immediately after the (possibly) disillusioned person leaving my sight rings true.
why no ipad posting? what kind of radical, leftist, $ocialist blog is this?
I’m getting the ipad! Sign me up. I was going to buy a kindle, and then thinking about a new mac, so I’ll just buy this and save myself some do-ray-me.
I’m an apple whore.
I am strangely unmoved by the iPad. I’ve been an Apple guy for the past 30 odd years but I see the iPad and go meh. My G4 PowerBook and 3G iPhone are fine for what I do, so the idea of getting a new device has no interest for me.
Not even a little bit. “http://www.app.com/article/20100124/NEWS06/100124021/Psychologists–Propaganda-works-better-than-you-think”
Sorry, failing at linking it for some reason…
If it doesn’t work the first time, do it another 183 times.
I still have to fight off the whole “Pelosi demanded that bigger plane” fooforaw a few times a year. I keep the links bookmarked. It never seems to do any good. Rush or Hannity will trot it out as a throw away line and it will reactivate their programming to repeat it ad nauseum.
But as I said and a couple others also stated – to even open the door into whether torture works or not was a FAIL. Once you allowed that frame to be part of the discussion it did not matter if it worked or not because they would always invoke the “ticking nuclear bomb in Los Angeles” or the “what if they had your son hostage” scenarios.
Because even if waterboarding didn’t work this one time then certainly the next technique would or the next situation would be different and the info would be available, etc.
It’s not about effective and there’s no arguing with someone who cares about this metric.
licensed to kill time
Gawd, that made me laugh, thanks!
Work? Of course not. Even if this fellow lied about something, such does not change the FACT that we HAVE to waterboard terrorists to protect America. Moreover, waterboarding still isn’t torture. Thus, even if waterboarding IS torture, we have to do what needs to be done in order to protect America from terrorists. Gabba gabba purple banana monkey hey.
The question is who will be the first Sunday morning villager to let the claim go unchallenged?
The fact that there was ever even a conversation about whether torture works is conclusive evidence that we have lost our way.
Torture is never justified. Ever. Under any circumstances. Period. Full stop.
Anyone who doesn’t get that forfeits the right to call himself or herself human.
My partner has a MacBook, but I’ve always thought it was more than I needed for a mobile device.
So the iPad actually seems designed for a user more like me, one with a full desktop and doesn’t mind leaving most of the power behind (sadly, that means WoW.)
Guess I need an MMO for the iPad.
And as I said in another thread:
OT but H/T through Atrios:
As part of the operations, Obama approved a Dec. 24 strike against a compound where a U.S. citizen, Anwar al-Aulaqi, was thought to be meeting with other regional al-Qaeda leaders. Although he was not the focus of the strike and was not killed, he has since been added to a shortlist of U.S. citizens specifically targeted for killing or capture by the JSOC, military officials said
Pretty sure this will never go wrong. Because if the US citizen is on the JSOC’s approved list then obviously he or she is guilty.
licensed to kill time
Also, since this is an open thread, my edit buttons suddenly don’t work anymore (FF3.6). All I get are ugly big letters that promise me I can edit and don’t deliver and that pisses me off so FYWP.
@licensed to kill time:
Have you ever looked into a career as a comedic straight man?
Ditto. Just improve the iPhone by improving memory and letting me use multiple apps at a time, I say.
licensed to kill time
@Corner Stone: My SO tells me I’m pretty good at it – I set ’em up and watch ’em sail outa the park.. :-O
Hey you wanna hear my latest Hollywood script pitch?
OK, see, there’s these four 20something right-wing dweebs. They think Young Republicans are a bunch of squishy RINOs. They all beat off to various right-wing bimbos but of course none could ever admit it to the others. They never get laid, live at home, and spend lots of time guzzling Cheetos and Mountain Dew while reading/posting on right-wing blogs.
Then one day they are shot down in flames BIG TIME when trying to pick up chicks at a bar. To overcome the shame and humiliation, they decide to prove their machismo. They have to quit doing nothing but talking, and ‘take action’.
Their stunt is poorly conceived and executed, yet they become accidental heroes thanks to a lazy media that likes a good, sensational story. Their egos have been renewed and their self-confidence restored… perhaps too much so. Now what do they do to live up to their newfound reputation? Their ordinary lives were pretty pathetic.
They realize they have to follow up their stunt with something bigger… and end up getting in WAY over their heads.
So, how do you like it?
By the way… have you seen the mugshots of James O’Keefe and his crew?
As Mayken pointed out, extensive work has shown that debunking, which necessarily includes repeating the lies to explain why they’re wrong, somehow increases peoples’ likelihood of believing the lies.
My theory is that people instinctively want to deny being wrong.
In my experience, people are far more likely to admit they are wrong about something (if they are capable of it at all), when they feel they have freely arrived at the conclusion themselves without having some other person ‘confront’ them with their error.
That’s why I’ve noticed that some of the most intelligent and thoughtful people I’ve ever known, would rarely contradict me to my face. Instead they would pose a rhetorical question designed to point me in the right direction, if you get what I mean.
Nah, a lot of the same brilliant thinkers who just know torture works also just know the planet appeared 6,000 years ago when God blinked.
@Max: based on what i’ve read about the iPad so far, do not get it if you want an eBook reader. it is backlit, not e-ink, so you will get eyestrain and have problems with glare & sunlight. also, you have to pay for wi-fi, unlike with the kindle or nook. add on it being about a pound heavier, double the price (for the base model) and a higher cost for the books and i fail to see the appeal. at least, if you wanted a dedicated reader, that is.
i’ve always felt apple cripples itself with proprietary software. for small, portable and (mostly) single-purpose devices, it doesn’t matter so much (and can even be benefical). for devices envisioned as multi-purpose, it’s a serious flaw. i haven’t read everything yet, but a 1Ghz chip with an iTouch OS? why? why make it a larger, overpowered version of a phone, that cannot run anything the phone can’t?
You can’t have a race to be first if no one is going to line up at the starting block.
Its a great device for people without a PB or iPhone though, like me.
I find it a chore to have to move to another room to setup a instaview on Netflix for our capable DVD player or set some movie/tv download in motion for streaming to the same DVD player.
@rnato: IIRC, it’s not about prejudice. Researchers exposed nonbiased people to lies + debunkings, and quizzed them awhile later to test memory. They retained the lies.
iPad sounds to me like a feminine hygiene product, a rather unfortunate connotation, IMO.
If you’re looking for ways to amuse youselves before the President’s SOTU Address, I have a brand spanking new Assclowns of the Week up.
On the spit for #82: The SCOTUS. James O’Keefe. SC Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer. Fox News. Harold Ford, Jr. All this and much, much more!
I nominate Jay Leno. This guy gives new meaning to the word scumbag.
Yes, I was one of the many who thought this, too. Also, when I say it out loud, I feel like I am saying “iPod” while doing a Peter Griffin impersonation.
The wingnut version of Entourage
It seems to be a large-print, blowed-up iTouch. (and don’t get me wrong. I LUUUUV my iTouch.) It’s my favorite little piece of electronic hardware, but I’d expect more for an extra $2-300 and something that ostensibly is supposed to be Apple’s answer to netbooks.
I’ve also heard that Saddam Hussein has nuclear weapons.
@freelancer: I will check that out. I already have an iphone, so if it’s not much more than that, I’ll just buy the kindle.
Well…it came up on one message board I frequent, and the wingnut response was that he isn’t credible. How can we believe his recantation? I shit you not: people actually said this.
Well, I’ll put it this way, I cannot tell you how often I’ve been pasting links debunking the whole CRA caused the housing debacle nonsense, and no, people will still not believe them, even though I link to the Fed and the FDIC stating as much.
I’m very tired…
Victim In Fatal Car Accident Tragically Not Glenn Beck
Oh crap, Fred Phelps and his entourage of hatefreaks are coming back to my city. I hope G-d is getting a good laugh out of these idiots – I sure am tired of them. At least I’ll be out of town. Otherwise I’d be down there with my “Jesus loves you – everyone else knows you’re an asshole” sign.
Did it occur to anyone else when the ipad was announced that you can’t really do anything with 16GB?
My music files alone are closing in on 20GB, and with photos, videos, and high def videos, even 64GB looks pretty small.
The funny thing is that my ipod has 250GB.
I think the ipad would have been a lot cooler if it were running the full OS. I don’t need and don’t want a big iphone. I would like an actual tablet I can work on.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Landon Donovan scored his first goal for Everton today.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Here’s a link with video of Donovan’s goal.
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: I can’t wait! June 12! June 12! June 12!
The battle, he is up the hill.
Question for any in the WoW guild who might have been on in the last few days: has my character been on doing weird shit lately? I just got an email from Blizzard before leaving work saying that my account was temporarily suspended for in-game chat spam. Which is odd, because last I logged on was Sunday…
In any case, with the suspension, they also reset my password, so I at least got that going for me for now. But I also want to know more details about what just transpired.
@r€nato: I have a title for you. The Hangover 2: Wingnut Roadtrip.
Kirikaou has partially recanted or backtracked before, and I thought had previously admitted that his “knowledge” was second-hand, or else that had been established (I’ll be researching this more precisely for a later post). His claims always smacked of bullshit to those following this closely, since Suskind and Ali Soufan’s accounts contradicted Kirikaou, as did the memos Cheney claimed proved that torture “worked” that did not prove that at all (despite probable bullying by Cheney of the CIA). However, this is the most definitive admission from Kirikaou. There’s a whole group of torture apologists and proponents who have been eager to claim torture “works,” and almost all of them have completely ignored the many, many reports and articles disproving them and showing a deliberate system of abuse and general cruelty authorized at the very top. Then there’s torture proponents like Liz and Dick Cheney, who when confronted with evidence (a rarity) will just flat-out lie instead.
In some literature you suffer the fate of your sins…Dante’s Inferno? Anyway, this guy should be waterboarded, and he shouldn’t be allowed to quit after 35 or 40 seconds. 83 times, M’ef-F’er.