Oh noes:
Sen. Orrin Hatch threatened an all-out political “war” and promised a new high in partisan tensions if Democrats employ a rarely used Senate rule to win approval of their health reform bill.
His provocative statements came a day after President Barack Obama made a plea for bipartisanship and cooperation in his State of the Union address.
It was a plea that Hatch, a Utah Republican who sits on both of the Senate’s health committees, said he simply didn’t believe.
“They haven’t acted in good faith on this, nor do I expect that they will,” he said in an interview with The Salt Lake Tribune . “I expect them to go to reconciliation.”
It would be a real tragedy if the Republicans decided to stop working with the Democrats. Wait, what?
We’ll know he is serious if he threatens to reunite the singing Senators if the Dems use reconciliation.
Lols.
JK
Listening to the Singing Senators qualifies as a form of enhanced interrogation.
Obama should challenge the Senate Republcan douchebags to a televised Q and A like he had today with the House Rebublican douchebags.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
Hey Orrin, you didn’t mind reconciliation for the Dubya tax cuts, did you? So take your medicine like a man!!
rootless_e
Let the eagles soar.
General Winfield Stuck
Orrin Hatch has Gerbils in his head, even more as he gets older. All dems have to do is rerun 1996 when the wingnuts crammed their signature issue of Welfare Reform down dems throats with reconciliation and Clinton signed it into law. If that hadn’t happened, then they might have an argument against using budget reconc. for legislation. But fair is fair, and to keep a short cut rule to bypass the filibuster that is only used by one side of the ideological spectrum is a violation of the Yin/Yang balance of nature rule and would offend my obotness to no end. Ohmmmmmmmmmmmm!
CalD
How amazing to learn that Hatch apparently hasn’t always felt this way about passing bills through reconciliation.
mai naem
Yo, Orrin – go fuck yourself.
beltane
Had the GOP not been so completely obstructionist during Obama’s first year in office, Hatch’s threats would have more of a bite. But since they have undertaken what is in effect a procedural shutdown of the Senate, they have already squandered this bargaining chip.
Once you have already shot the hostage, what is left?
DougJ
God, I hate Harold Ford.
I realize that’s off topic, but I needed to vent.
SiubhanDuinne
@CalD #5. Amazing indeed. Amazing is hardly the word. I, for one, am shocked, stunned, staggered, stupefied . . .
Mike E
What a dickweasle–he once famously said that he supported the death penalty because he believed in the sanctity of life. Perfect Republican.
eastriver
Wow, the animosity from you Liarbaggers is a little frightening. Orrin is gonna get better. He’s trying. Don’t be so hateful.
SiubhanDuinne
@eastriver #11: Yes, he is trying. *Very* trying.
Wilson Heath
There’s more inane things going on, amazingly enough. I had the misfortune of catching a good chunk of the Texas GOP Gubernatorial debate tonight. Each candidate is an Army of Fail, and they are all ripping on each other in a way that’s almost heartwarming.
Funniest was the Teabagger, Medina: she said that the state could eliminate property taxes, replace the revenue with a retail sales tax, and increase net wealth of the citizenry. Uh-huh. What magical thinking gets this result? Frak, does even Heritage peddle such ridiculous manure?
Carrie
Yikes, there’s a rifle aiming for a little girl’s head
on the left side of my screen!
Bring back the Pam Anderson add or maybe have it pointing to the stubborn belly fat….that little girl didn’t do anything wrong!
gnomedad
“Up or down vote” — ancient history.
Ash Can
Orrin Hatch can go eat shit and bark at the moon. (Actually, come to think of it, this is pretty much what all the Congressional Republicans really are doing these days, isn’t it?)
inkadu
@beltane: Once you have already shot the hostage, what is left?
Blaming the police for not giving in to your demands.
Then putting the police on trial for manslaughter.
Then winning.
NR
The real question is not are the Republicans going to do everything they can to obstruct Obama’s agenda, the real question is, is Obama going to enable them by continuing to pursue “bipartisanship,” thereby making himself look like the fat kid on the playground who gets his lunch money stolen every day?
Notorious P.A.T.
But the president made a plea for bipartisanship! I guess it’s time for another plea!
Warren Terra
I’ve felt for years that any news story quoting or even mentioning Orrin Hatch in any way should be required to include that as Senate Judiciary Chair he blocked dozens upon dozens of Clinton’s judicial nominees, without regard to the merits or demerits of the individual nominees, leaving those seats empty until Dubya came into office – and then complained loudly to anyone who would listen that denying rapid confirmation to even a small number of Dubya’s judicial nominees, a small number who were selected for their extremism, was a betrayal of our founding fathers’ dearest wishes.
Of course, even the news stories reporting his demands for rapid confirmation of Dubya’s nominees didn’t mention those facts, let alone any other stories that quoted or mentioned him. But a boy can dream.
inkadu
@Wilson Heath: Thanks for the programming suggestion. The BBC History of India was starting to drag a bit. Ten minutes of Texas GOP wrangling should liven me up nicely.
http://www.khou.com/video/featured-videos/Replay-The-Belo-Debate-Part-I-83085692.html
Notorious P.A.T.
@NR:
Yes!
Mike E
@inkadu:
That’s repub chutzpah, or “shitzpah”.
madmommy
@Carrie:
Heh. On my screen it’s aiming at David Vitter.
inkadu
@inkadu: Though Texas Cheerleaders Support the Troops might also pique your… interest.
Yutsano
@eastriver: In the immortal words of my ancestors: feux toi.
burnspbesq
@Notorious P.A.T.:
Yes, and I made a plea for my belly fat to disappear while I am sleeping tonight.
I am far more likely to get what I want than Obama.
demkat620
Yeah that’s genius. On a day when the GOP caucus got schooled and looked like a whiny bunch of idiots, Orrin Hatch tries to out clown them.
What an asshat.
rootless_e
@Wilson Heath: I love this race. Texas Republicans are pushing the crazy envelope, thinking outside of the crazy box, and going the extra crazy mile. Medina seems sensible in this group.
Mike in NC
Screw that old geezer…
jeffreyw
All these threads and no puppeh pics.
Warren Terra
@Carrie:
I see the rifle ad, but above it I don’t get a little girl; I get a Google Adsense banner inviting me to join the NRSC (and “end the Democrats control in Washington” – apparently because apostrophes are for sissies). I think I’ll pass.
Alternatively, I get a great big rifle aiming at the NRSC, albeit the banner is really just a big maroon banner full of text and doesn’t contain any sort of human or other living creature, except the tiny mad elephant logo at the very top.
WaterGirl
@jeffreyw: Just caught myself smiling back at your dogs as I looked at the photo.
inkadu
@rootless_e: I don’t know much about Texas politics, since I live in in New England, but it’s the first time I’ve heard anyone complain about “the highway lobby,” and that the federal government funds public programs. Just secede already.
Also the first time I’ve seen anyone with a four-point kerchief in their breast pocket.
WereBear
Just saw the press conference on MSNBC, and wow. Just wow.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a televised mismatch since John Cleese knocked out the twelve year old girl on Monty Python.
Kryptik
You gotta love the usual audacity, accusing Dems of not acting in good faith after all the haranguing and baits and switches the Republicans pulled to water down the health care bill further.
Classic Republican projection.
eastriver
Wow, the animosity from you Liarbaggers is a little frightening. Orrin is gonna get better. He’s trying. Don’t be so hateful.@Yutsano:
In the words of my ancestors: it’s-ay a-ay ucking-fay oke-jay.
rob!
Oh no, another gasbag old white guy has declared war on Obama. I don’t know if I’ll be able to sleep tonight from the worry.
Yutsano
@jeffreyw: You haz reminded me: the long awaited photo of Jack-Jack:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44164793@N05/4314640873/
jeffreyw
@WaterGirl:
Just for you, then.
Warren Terra
@burnspbesq:
Well, there is, at least in theory, good sense in appearing reasonable and open to dialog and compromise in order to make it clear that the other side isn’t willing to do the same. So I’ve got no problems whatsoever with calls for bipartisanship, or with sincere efforts to build bipartisanship. We just need more over the latter part, the pivot where the noncooperating party is denounced for their unwillingness to work in a bipartisan manner.
Sadly, Dubya – who never compromised on anything during his time in office, at least not after 9/11 gave him The Responsibility To Save America or whatever he thought he had, would regularly if profoundly dishonestly decry Democratic unwillingness to work across the aisles, but so far Obama has not done much of this. He started during his State Of The Union, perhaps. We’ll see if he keeps it up, or if he really believes that all the bipartisan comity that he quite rightly calls for is actually plausible with the Republican Nihilists now in opposition.
Eric U.
I’m waiting for the truth to come out about Orrin. I’m not sure what the truth is, but it isn’t pretty.
jeffreyw
@Yutsano:
More like this, please.
SIA
Orrin Hatch is one prissy little bitch.
rootless_e
@inkadu: We have a good chance of dumping the Republicans from the statehouse this year. There’s a strong Democratic candidate – Bill White – and if the Repubs hammer each other long enough, it can be done.
jwb
Odd that Hatch would choose this moment to complain about reconciliation. Makes me think that he’s actually worried that the Dems may use it now. That in turns suggests to me that the Reid may be getting close to having the magic 50 he needs to move the legislation through reconciliation.
Carrie
@Warren Terra:
It’s awright, she’s gone now, hope she got away in time.
gonna take a Laudanum and lie down.
jwb
@rootless_e: I think it is very, very unlikely that White can win unless through some miracle the teabagger, Medina, manages to squeak by both Perry and Hutchison. She’s crazy enough that some moderate Goopers might prefer White.
inkadu
@rootless_e: I’m quite enjoying Medina. She’s mental illness made manifest.
Yutsano
@jeffreyw: I am all about giving the people what they want:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44164793@N05/4315390350/
I was trying to get a better picture here, but seriously, can you keep a border collie still?
LM
@Mike E
Maybe he meant the sanctimony of life?
MikeBoyScout
All things considered, I’m damn glad I don’t live in Utah.
rootless_e
@jwb: The key is for the teabaggers to alienate enough suburban republicans and then to get enuff of the new voters to show. I’m seeing a lot of 2-time-bush-losers describe themselves as “libertarians” these days.
jwb
@rootless_e: The difference is that Perry and Hutchison are just playing; Medina actually believes it.
mr. whipple
@SIA:
He is the whiniest little twit in the Senate, isn’t he? What a wanker!
mr. whipple
Yup. From your lips…
Yutsano
@MikeBoyScout: Try driving through Salt Lake City sometime. Aside from the really wide streets (it’s a Mormon thing, don’t ask me the exact details I just know that’s true) there is a really creepy vibe there. I was there and the hairs on the back of my neck would not go down until I got back to Idaho.
freelancer (itouch)
Okay, this missive from Hatch is particularly hilarious in light of the fact that:
1. Obama’s press conference today was newsmaking, as well as good optics for him.
2. Like Fox News realizing that O is drinking their milkshake and deciding to cut away early, the Banner story on Drudge for most of the day has been an accusatory hit piece talking point generator claiming that Obama wants to use the might of an all-powerful executive to change the rules of BCS college football.
3. If you click the link and READ the fucking article from the Salt Lake Trib, it says nothing of the sort, instead stating that Hatch had merely contacted Obama and requested that the Justice Dept look into possibly shady business practices and possible anti-trust law violations peripheral to the NCAA and its symbiotic relationship with corporate culture and the national business infrastructure.
In short, FUCK drudge and Hatch with no less than 41 of AsiangrrlMN’s rusty pitchforks.
jenniebee
So if that Pew poll showed that only 1 in 4 Americans know about the filibuster, which they taught us about in high school and was the big moment in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington for fuck’s sake, what are the numbers do you suppose on the percent of Americans who are receptive to the argument that Reconciliation is eeeeevil because some of this falls into a grey area on the Byrd rule and therefore shouldn’t be subject to a simple majority up or down vote?
Because if Orrin Hatch wants to go to the country to explain that one… well it’s one way to pick up the Orville Redenbacher endorsement, I’ll give him that. Popcorn futures are soaring!
jwb
@rootless_e: I don’t think White stands a chance against either Perry or Hutchison in a one-on-one matchup. He could win against Medina, however. And while I don’t think Medina would have a chance against either Perry or Hutchison in a one-on-one race, she could win a plurality if they are both in the race. I can’t remember whether the GOP primary has a runoff if no candidate gets 50%.
handy
Just got here from the Obama Q&A thread, and you know, all this unified hate on Repubs/Hatch is a nice reprieve from the epic battle between the mindless Obots who can’t stomach criticism of Their One and the dead end dubiously labeled “progressive” Jane worshipping firebaggers.
rootless_e
@jwb: Texas republicans have made dumb into an art form.
WaterGirl
Hey, where’s arguingwithsignposts tonight? I watched Leverage earlier today. My favorite character is Hardison and I wanted to tell AWS that for almost the whole hour I forgot Hardison was black.
/tweety
Yutsano
@handy: The enemy of my enemy and all that…
SIA
@mr. whipple: He’s in the top 5 congresscritters I would like to smack in the face (or punch in the neck) :)
Eric Cantor’s another.
But I believe I’d have to put Marsha Blackburn at the top of the list.
Yutsano
@SIA: I have a friend (an avowed Communist, when I go to Arizona I’m meeting up with him) who would love nothing more than for Marsha Blackburn to be the head of the Republican Party. That would bring them closer to peak Wingnut than anything else.
Zach
It’s amazing that Republicans think they’ll win the rhetorical battle of convincing America that the Democrats skirted around due process to get the health bill on the books. The bill’s already passed with supermajority support and this vote would command a majority, at least, as well. How do you make a 30-second ad convincing voters of the dasterdliness of reconciliation?
It’s even more amazing that a significant number of Democrats appear to agree with Republicans on this point.
However, they don’t actually agree and just want an excuse to buck party discipline and appease special interests.
rootless_e
John McCain GOP 4,467,748 55.5%
Barack Obama Dem 3,521,164 43.8%
And Obama never invested a dime in the state – in fact, they pumped money and volunteers out of here to swing states (for good reason).
Llelldorin
@handy:
Well, yeah. Thank God the Republicans were stupid enough to interrupt us when we were trying hard to self-destruct. That’s possibly the one thing we hate more than each other.
danimal
Hatch is a special level twit because he really sounds like he means it. He’s been in DC long enough to know he’s full of crap, but he just sounds so earnest and upset. He’s the definition of prissy.
handy
@rootless_e:
CA Repubs give them a run for their money.
SIA
@Yutsano: In her next incarnation, Ms Blackburn will appear as a mosquito.
@Zach: I have wondered if HCR is still quite alive but the Dems have put it under the radar until all the sausage ingredients are out of sight and they’re ready to vote. The idea has an Obama-like stealth quality to it.
Redhand
Fuck him.
MikeBoyScout
@Yutsano:
As a friend of mine (who comes to SoCal as a post-doc via Russia) says ‘Utah is perhaps the most beautiful state in the USA, as long as you don’t need to speak with anyone who lives there.’
Morbo
@Yutsano: Mais non, les feux sont les choses qui brûle les autre choses. Peut être vous voulez dire “baiser” ou “baises toi.”
burnspbesq
@Zach:
Hey, he used “Democrat” and “party discipline” in the same sentence.
He’s a funny guy.
mr. whipple
@SIA:
“Eric Cantor’s another.”
Oh yeah. People that think Dems look ‘weak’ should consider these two sniveling weenies.
rootless_e
Joe Hensarling: Obama should of asked him how many zeros come after the 1 in 1 trillion.
jenniebee
@burnspbesq:
But the president made a plea for bipartisanship!
Yes, and I made a plea for my belly fat to disappear while I am sleeping tonight.
I am far more likely to get what I want than Obama.
They weren’t his intended audience. Wavering Republican voters and independents at home were.
I think it’s interesting how much people are still framing this as Obama seeking a “win” over Republicans. If you think that’s what he’s trying for, you don’t get what he’s doing. He’s boxed them into a corner where they have a choice of changing or dying off. They’ll keep fighting for a while, and we’ll see if they can fight their way out.
But I get it. We’ve been gut-kicked for decades, admitting that liberals don’t play this game as well as conservatives do, but staying in the goddamn game. Obama’s ambition and vision is to change the game entirely. It’ll be interesting to see if he can manage it.
Notorious P.A.T.
@inkadu:
Well done!
Then make some concessions to your belly. Reach across the aisle! Be nice to it! Whatever you do, don’t fight it!
Llelldorin
@handy:
QFFT. CA Dems are still living off their genius “We should run against immigrants in the fucking Golden State to shore up our support among elderly racists in Orange County” maneuver from sixteen years ago.
burnspbesq
@Morbo:
Je pense qu’il veut dire “baisez-vous-meme.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jenniebee:
Yeah, I don’t think “Those fiendish Democrats passed something with a majority! Unfair!” is going to cut a lot of ice, try as they might Mitch McConnell, Orrin Hatch and Sean Hannity, even aided and abetted by David Broder and Evan Bayh.
Yutsano
@Morbo: Domo sumimasen. Furansu-go ga chotto hanashiemasu. :)
Notorious P.A.T.
Plenty of room for the Danite Band?
jwb
@rootless_e: No argument there, but I think the Dems still have very much an uphill battle ahead in Texas. Based on my impressions living in the suburbs of Austin, I’d say that Perry will win another term (rather easily—he’ll actually get 50% of the vote this time!) and I suspect the House and Senate will tilt back towards the Goopers a bit, primarily because I think Democratic voting is going to be down fairly sharply this year. The odds tilt quite a lot in the Dems direction if Medina is the nominee or Perry actually goes over the edge and works diligently to out-teabag Medina, because Dems will come to the polls to vote against her (or against Perry if he goes over into full teabagger).
burnspbesq
I am astonished that the Republicans allowed cameras in the room for their thing with Obama. That was monumentally stupid.
Martin
@burnspbesq: Shh. We want it to keep happening. Senate next plz!
SIA
This frames the issue nicely.
Yutsano
@burnspbesq: It was a calculation on their part. They were hoping the guy who tended to trip over his words and use long pauses before answering would show up. Instead the got rickrolled. The question is how much the MSM will now ignore that this ever happened.
rootless_e
@jwb: Well, we were all surprised out here in western travis county in 2008 when we found a lot of Dems at the precinct caucus. But turnout is key. It’s annoying how republicans always vote and Democrats always talk.
burnspbesq
The last thing in the world I expected was for the people of New York to turn into a bunch of pants-wetters about holding the KSM trial in Manhattan.
Mike E
@LM:
Ahh, yes, that would be Joe Lieberman.
SIA
@Yutsano: Surprisingly the media seems to be giving the event an airing. It was on nightly news with Couric (haven’t checked the other networks.) Lamby Blitzer aired it, and now Anderson Cooper. Fox aired it till, as I understand it, the last 20 minutes.
@burnspbesq: Well, in their defense, this is what they’re working with:
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2010/01/more-sotu-framed-for-hanging.html
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@burnspbesq:
They read on a blog he needs a teleprompter.
mr. whipple
The format killed them, also.
Allowing them to ramble with their bullshit ‘questions’ allowed Obama to chuckle at their idiocy, cut them short, mock them. Then he got to answer on his terms with no follow up.
Heehee.
Morbo
@Yutsano: Watashi mo. Nihongo mo.
eastriver
@burnspbesq:
It’s not pants-wetting, putz. It’s money.
Why don’t you have the shitty little city you live in donate the $1b needed for the trial? Kay?
Notorious P.A.T.
I hope people will forgive me for thinking the party that just took Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat is a loooong way from dying off.
Notorious P.A.T.
Maybe they thought he would just sit there more or less idly, hoping things would go his way. Don’t know where they would get THAT idea.
Yutsano
@Morbo: So desu ka. Eigo go wa yoi, ne?
inkadu
@rootless_e: Completely secondary: I gotta admit, I love Hutchinson’s style. I knew someone from Texas and she was a sharp dresser and had aristocratic bearing and diction; but she had a heart of gold, and apparently was not made of money. Anyway, I’m digging microcultures these days. Talked to a guy from Salem, Mass. that had consonants from Britain (enunciated the t’s at the end of words, but dropped r’s) but straight ahead middle-american vowels. Ok. Sorry to bore you.
rootless_e
@Notorious P.A.T.: You think Republicans read FDL? I thought they just wrote it.
Ok. Thanks and goodnight.
jwb
@rootless_e: Similar thing happened at my precinct caucus. But my precinct still went for McCain fairly handily, the local elementary school (in AISD) required permission for students to watch Obama’s address to the school kids, and a couple of months ago the neighborhood was peppered with Nobamacare signs. Then, too, Doggett was ambushed this summer by the teabaggers at a grocery store just up the road from my house.
eastriver
@Notorious P.A.T.:
The reports I’ve seen say the Q&A camera request was made at the last second by the WH, and the GOP said Why not? There wasn’t any big strategy on either side.
SIA
Hey John Cole, how did Lily and Tunch react when you came home from the hospital? I am curious because it seems like the critters can sense when their human is ill or injured.
General Winfield Stuck
@jenniebee: This and word, whatever the right term for agree.
Gwangung
@eastriver: The last second ask wasn’t strategy!
rootless_e
@jwb: They bused ’em in for the doggett ambush. And he hammered back. We’ll see. I’m amazed by the tenacity of suburban republicans – it’s as if voting republican was fundamental to their personalities.
anyways later
danimal
@Notorious P.A.T.:
Special elections are an entirely different animal from the general. The GOP is energized now, but that could change quite a bit by November. They may do as well as folks are predicting, but I doubt it.
They are way too far out on the right wing ledge for the general population. They can’t dial back the rhetoric without losing the base; they can’t stay crazy and intense and maintain their appeal to independents.
Martin
@jenniebee:
But Obama made the futility of the exercise plain in the speech, in what was his best and most repeated point of the night – the GOP has painted a landscape where anyone even in the same frame as Obama is a marxists terrorist america-hater. Obama didn’t box them into that corner – they and the teabaggers did. Obama’s trying to get them the hell out of the corner because even though it might help Dems win elections in a theoretical sense, if nothing happens and voters get pissed, they’re going to toss incumbents, and Dems lose that fight. And the GOP knows that. They want the public hurting. They want them pissed. They’re calculating that fucking over the voter is the path to the majority. Hell, it’s so goddamn effective that it’s even gotten liberal activists on their side.
Obama and the Dem’s job is to expose this to the voter. They can’t go through the media to do it because the media is obsessed with some sense of false balance, except for Fox who is totally in the tank for the GOP. Obama needs to go past the media, which is why today’s event was so important, and the Dems need to start passing thing, whether they are content with them or not. They need to drown the public in change. It might not be perfectly progressive, but voters want action and the GOP is adamant about preventing it.
eastriver
@Gwangung:
Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. Right?
jwb
@inkadu: Hutchison herself is probably fine, though as a Senator she’s always seemed a little disengaged; but unfortunately she has to run in the GOP primary in Texas, which means taking on some truly horrendous positions if she is going to be competitive. And this being Texas, it’s hard to see how she will be able to back away from those positions completely if she is elected Governor. I do think that she’d probably be an improvement on Gov. Goodhair. Hell, Medina would probably be an improvement on Gov. Goodhair. But unfortunately I still think Goodhair will win relatively easily. And the legislative session in 2011 is shaping up to be a blood bath—we may well end up making California look sane—unless the economy turns around very quickly.
Mike E
@danimal:
This. Also.
eastriver
@Yutsano:
Klaatu Barada Nikto
Yutsano
@eastriver: Gesundheit.
Morbo
@Yutsano: Yes, I think that would be for the best.
Martin
@danimal: You’re missing the strategy. The GOP isn’t trying to win a war of ideas. They’ve given up on ideas. Calling Obama a communist isn’t trying to give voters a better way forward. This is simply an attrition war. The GOP is trying to make incumbency poisonous to voters by shutting everything down. Voters aren’t going to discriminate between Democratic ideas and Republican attacks if they are unemployed. They’re going to say ‘Fuck it, the guy in the office now didn’t get it done, I’m going with the other guy’. If every incumbent flips, the GOP is in the majority, and the GOP incumbents will always be able to claim ‘don’t blame me, we were outnumbed by the Dems’. That’s the overarching strategy.
And that’s sort of what Obama was telling us. The GOP can’t vote for anything. They’ve salted the earth. Now, for the Republicans that do want to fix things, they’re fucked – and they know they’re fucked. Hell, there was some clapping in the room at these points that Obama made. And clearly Obama knows that the Republicans can’t vote on anything, which is why he made such a clear point of it today. Essentially he was telling them to shut the fuck up about trying to compromise and wanting bipartisanship because they were the ones that chose the strategy, not the Dems.
Obama knows he’s not going to get anything out of this, and the message was heard in the room, but far more importantly the message was heard and understood out here.
inkadu
@jwb: From my days of mocking shrub, I thought the role of Governor in Texas was rather minor; most of the heavy lifting is done by the legislature. Or the baseball team.
Does Texas have any onerous budget requirements like California? If not, how could things get as bad?
arguingwithsignposts
@WaterGirl:
I saw what you did there. fell asleep watching Ep. 3 season 6 of West Wing earlier. I’m back.
And for about an hour now, reading these comments, I forgot you were all human. /tweety
jenniebee
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not only that, but he’s threatening war? What’s he going to do, force cloture votes on non-binding resolutions to declare May 12 Oscar Mayer Hot Dog Appreciation Day? Because they’re already referring to the president as Bolshevik Satan and doing party line votes on pay as you go and defense appropriations. This is Vlad the Impaler saying “no more Mr. Nice Guy” is what we’ve got here.
Yutsano
@inkadu: Texas runs a budget surplus mostly because they do pretty much nothing for the people of Texas. In fact, I’m not really sure what social services they DO provide.
Wile E. Quixote
@Yutsano:
The width of the streets is due to a city ordnance requiring that they be laid out wide enough so that a wagon team could be easily turned around.
I was in Utah once for an NCO training course and really liked it. It’s an outstandingly beautiful state and the Mormons I met knew that I wasn’t a Mormon and had no interest in becoming one but still treated me decently and with respect. And the Mormon Church recently backed a Salt Lake City ordnance barring housing and employment discrimination based upon sexual orientation. I didn’t find Utah all that bad, now Dorklahoma. Don’t even get me started on fucking Dorklahoma. I mean if we ever decided to resume above ground nuclear testing Dorklahoma would be the perfect place to do it. Flat, hot, ugly and chock full of ignorant bigots, it’s like the filthy, chancre encrusted taint between Texas and Kansas or New Mexico and Arkansas, take your pick.
Martin
@Yutsano: They offer good gunemployment benefits. If you lose your job, the state gives you a regular bullet stipend until you get your income flow back.
Oh, and they execute the kinds of people you don’t want in your neighborhood. The state is so deeply committed to this, that they’ll even rig the legal system to guarantee a regular service of executions.
jenniebee
@Martin:
Obama’s trying to get them the hell out of the corner because even though it might help Dems win elections in a theoretical sense, if nothing happens and voters get pissed, they’re going to toss incumbents, and Dems lose that fight.
You’re taking what Obama is doing at face value, and you shouldn’t. I believe what he’s saying, but not that he was saying it to the people in the room with him right then. What he was doing was inviting Republican voters, not Republican politicians, to believe that they’d have a non-humiliating welcome in the Democratic party. Instead of reinforcing the impressions of voters who are the historical opponents of Democrats, Obama is taking a non-adversarial approach to their representatives (with whom many of the more moderate voters are not well pleased) and presenting himself as someone who is confident, calm, reassuring, and non-hostile to them. He’s not out to fight Republican lawmakers, he’d rather seduce their support away.
darryl
I just watched the MSNBC 2-hr thing about Obama’s Q and A session. Holy Cow, Obama brought a machine gun to a plastic knife fight. I have to agree with Olbermann when he said something like ‘This is not a guy I ever want to get into an argument with…about anything.”
Martin
@Wile E. Quixote: I agree. Utah is a pretty damn nice state. Well, other than there being no booze there and there being some ugly social attitudes, but honestly, no state is entirely spared from that. Utah just has a unique flavor of it.
jwb
@inkadu: “Does Texas have any onerous budget requirements like California? If not, how could things get as bad?”
Because our sales tax revenue is way down, our royalties from energy extraction is down, the business tax isn’t bringing in enough to cover the cut in property taxes, and we refuse to raise taxes. The legislature is going to have to cut services, and cut deep, and we don’t have particularly generous services to begin with. Now, we probably won’t have a legislative standoff like California (I don’t think Texas is in that sense ungovernable), but in terms of ending next session with a state budget that is in shambles and that will do heavy long-term damage to state agencies, infrastructure and institutions—yeah, I think we’ve got a pretty good chance of getting there.
Yutsano
@Wile E. Quixote: The Tetons are nothing short of breathtaking. Provo is actually a cute little college town (I almost went to BYU although as a nice Jewish boy that would have gone over REAL well, I did get in however) and the Great Salt Lake is a wonderful inland sea. SLC though…I dunno, could just have been my reaction.
EDIT: And every Mormon I’ve ever known has been a great person. Not one has ever tried to evangelize me (not something I can say about some of my old fundie friends). I know enough about their religion that I think it’s hokum but the kid in South Park said the best thing about being Mormon and it’s mostly true.
Martin
@jenniebee: I agree. Sorry, I missed that key sentence there where you made it clear you were talking about voters. Way too many hours of work this week…
Jason Bylinowski
I know I’m late to the party, but I wanted to express my mad glee that for once I actually got to see something of note happen on live TV and it was actually GOOD NEWS FOR DEMOCRATS.
I was working at a relatively wealthy person’s house at a gated community, installing a shitload of printers onto all their computers, and this customer naturally had Fox News on their big old TV screen. We got through the first half hour or so of the GOP Retreat and then my customer decided that Obama was doing too well to keep watching.
“I can’t believe he’s doing this well without his teleprompter!” I exclaim, knowing exactly the right thing to say to the fool on the couch. “I bet you he doesn’t last another five minutes.” Bam, back to the show. Yes.
What followed was another half hour of sublime entertainment. I’m no Obot and have my problems with our President, but man, he was charming, he was brilliant, and he was focused in a way I just didn’t expect to see. I mean, I remember the debates, and he was always just okay, but nothing outstanding. This, however, was a rhetorical slaughter, and then to make it even better, Fox ended up cutting the feed before it was over. That was somehow surprisingly satisfying. I watched the rest at home, and it just got better from there. It was hard keeping a straight face the whole time though, and I just flat-out told my customer, “I’m not sure what just happened there but I’m pretty sure he just made the news.”
arguingwithsignposts
regarding Utah, one of my former profs. went to BYU, and told stories about students ratting each other out for drinking and the like. Very big brother-esque situation, even off campus. I attended an event on campus and there was no caffeine. A definite no-no for professional academics.
no. freakin’. caffeine.
jwb
@Yutsano: And Texas isn’t really running a surplus this year. The state looks like it has a surplus because of the stimulus money, because gas was above $4 a gallon a couple of years ago which allowed them to build a healthy reserve and because the recession was late in getting to the state.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: BYU has a VERY strict honor code. You can actually get kicked out for violating a Church tenet or any other part of the honor code. And Allah help you if you’re gay there. It’s a really good school, but being a student there can be very oppressive.
DaBomb
@rootless_e: I am with you about Bill White. He has a good chance.
@Wilson Heath: Watching those assholes debate is like watching sock puppets wrestle.
arguingwithsignposts
@Yutsano: i once worked at a school where a student got kicked out for admitting that he had “homosexual thoughts” to his roommate. (not Mormon) So yeah, that’s some fucked up shit.
(the school I worked at was a little left of Bob Jones U., but not by much)
handy
@Yutsano:
And Allah help you if you pray to Allah, too, I imagine.
Yutsano
@handy: Heh. When I was applying to BYU they couldn’t out and out ask me if I was Mormon, however they did note that if you had a bishop speak for you your tuition would be lowered. My parents freaked at that.
jwb
@DaBomb: The fact that Hutchison has considerable support for her run means that there are a lot of higher level Republicans who are dissatisfied with Perry. That does suggest a vulnerability that someone like White might be able to exploit. However, I do think the odds remain pretty heavily in favor of Perry so long as the economy doesn’t tank or he doesn’t flip out and go full teabag (which he is fully capable of doing).
jenniebee
@Martin: I hear that.
I would also note that when Obama talks like this about bi-partisanship and does the catch-more-flies-with-honey routine, he’s also putting Republican representatives in a bad spot with the Village. Get Broder scorekeeping on bipartisanship every week with a default assumption that Republicans are the problem, and Republicans will have a bigger problem than Obama and Pelosi on their hands, make no mistake about it.
Did you catch Boehner’s response, btw? If Democrats would just separate the things we suggest from the things we don’t like and vote on them separately then maybe we’ll support the things we suggested in the first place. But it isn’t fair to ask Republicans to support the Democratic agenda in kind; compromise is still doing entirely what Republicans want to do.
Ailuridae
I have a question. Is there something about the GOP that encourages the advancement of women in that caucus who speak in incoherent word salads? Palin, Blackburn, Bachmann jeebus. Blackburns question to Obama during today’s event is almost impossible to follow.
I really like SLC. My best friend and his wife live there and he and his wife live pretty close to the university of Utah. Its a surprisingly progressive city (a lot like Boise) and its public transportation will soon be the best in the country after MBTA, SEPTA, CTA and BART. And for a place that has a reputation as dryish it had some really great local beer.
I think I’ve mentioned before that my dad is an Appalachian version of Hank Hill. He’s a straight punch Republican voter and is largely a one-issue voter. He’s watching the MSNBC coverage of this and his summation was that Obama decimated them. For reference he thought McCain and Palin won all the debates. Well, actually he doesn’t think that but that’s what he argued.
arguingwithsignposts
@Ailuridae:
What is that one issue? just out of curiosity.
darryl
Obama brought out the Bear Jew.
KDP
I thought I’d take a quick cruise by Erik’s house just to see what’s happening. He’s proud and pleased to have been at the entire event, and at the end of his post he had this to say:
Any thoughts on which poll he might be talking about?
arguingwithsignposts
@KDP:
The one they push-polled out of their asses?
Srsly, the reality-distortion within the GOP is strong.
And kudos to you for reading it so we don’t have to.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: Framing of the questions, sample, the ways of biasing a poll in your favor are pretty much endless. But since Erickk chose not to link to the poll he’s talking suggests either a) the poll doesn’t say what he talks about or b) he’s making it up out of whole cloth.
Ailuridae
@arguingwithsignposts:
Abortion. As the years have gone on and he’s gotten older (he’s coming up on 68) he’s grown to accept more and more conservative dogma while being personally repulsed by a lot of the candidates Republicans put forward.
Martin
@jenniebee: Yeah, no surprise there. Someone in the media needs to start calling them out on their shit, though. How many Republicans in the Senate voted for Paygo? Why did the GOP filibuster the defense appropriations bill to fund Iraq and Afghanistan?
Looks like the California GOP has gotten more followers.
freelancer (itouch)
@darryl:
Haha! Going Godwin FTW!
soonergrunt
@Wile E. Quixote:
Dude!
Believe it or not, there are a few of us progressive/liberal types here. Keep the nukes in the western half of the state and along the Texas and Kansas border if you have to drop em. Leave Tulsa, Norman, and Moore for us at least.
Blow the ever living shit out of Stillwater though. Fucking OSU only exists to prove that inbreeding doesn’t prevent people from getting college degrees.
Something Fabulous
@DougJ: Ish. And HuffPo has really gotten… sleazy, hasn’t it? The sidebar stories were about Tiger Woods’ proclivities and such. Ish. Poor Jason Linkins. Can we throw him some kind of life raft?
Yutsano
@Ailuridae: You would think he would be pissed off at the Republicans. After all they had six years to make abortion illegal and they sat on their hands and did nothing about it at all. It didn’t stop them from fundraising the hell off of trying to stop abortion.
darryl
I hafta say the same thing, nearly, about my Seventh Day Adventist relatives. I don’t even remotely agree with them (I’m an atheist), but I’ll take them all day long over some obnoxious holy roller fundies like some of my other relatives. They proselytize more, but it’s not obnoxious.
Nixon had a great idea in the late sixties. Putting it into effect caused him to win I think it was the ’68 election with 60% of the vote–more than any president since. But the long term consequences of appealing to the fundie tards is why the Republicans are now hitting rock bottom and reaching for the dynamite to keep going.
b-psycho
So it’s a partisan move to use a method that only needs 51 votes, when the reason for it is that some in Obama’s own party are willing to join a filibuster?
jenniebee
@Martin:
The GOP is trying to make incumbency poisonous to voters by shutting everything down.
I think they’re still a little skittish of that after the stunts they pulled in ’95 backfired on them. My take is that they’ve backed themselves into a place where they have no other choice. This was inevitable from the moment Sarah Palin said that Obama “pals around with terrorists” (if not before). They’ve been building a movement in their base for years that has fed on slogans like “there’s no reason to compromise when you’re right” and now the base is hopping mad, furious that they’ve lost, they feel personally repudiated and anybody who compromises with the guy who’s been “palling around with terrorists”… shoot, look at how fast these people have turned on Sarah Palin herself, and all she did was pay back a favor and endorse a guy who isn’t compromising but has in the past and probably secretly wants to. They’ve sowed winds and now they’re reaping whirlwinds.
Anyway, the critters can’t any of them afford for any of their number to be seen as willing to work with the other side. The risk has been completely socialized: the Tea Partiers don’t care which critter it is that breaks ranks and they don’t care about how important the legislation that prompted the break might be. If Republicans as a party are seen as anything but red in tooth and claw in their fight with the Democrats… well the Tea Partiers are already on the verge of forming a third party. If that happens and the new party gains a real foothold, the Republicans become the weakest of the three parties, which means they’re through, and all they have to look forward to is dissolution and absorption. The closest model for it I can think of is the transition in GB from the Liberal to the Labour party, if the Labour party was barking mad.
That’s my take on it, anyway.
arguingwithsignposts
listening to KO, Tweety and Rachel back and forth on the Obama smackdown. Are they all white? because I forgot. /tweety
handy
@arguingwithsignposts:
Hah!
jenniebee
@Mike E:
What a dickweasle—he once famously said that he supported the death penalty because he believed in the sanctity of life. Perfect Republican.
In all fairness, that was John Stuart Mill’s argument, too.
arguingwithsignposts
Watching Obama’s reax to Jeb Henserling (sp?) lecture him about the deficit is priceless. “At some point I know you’re going to let me answer.”
I wish I knew what was going through his head, because it was undoubtedly … something.
“That’s factually just not true, and you know it’s not true.” heh.
xian
@eastriver, re:
that’s silly. the Republicans didn’t want to say yes but, as Shields put it on McLehrer, “they were hoist on their own transparency petard.” I smell Plouffe.
Ailuridae
@Yutsano:
Oh I tell him all the time that the Republicans are just duping the pro-life movement and have no intention of ever overturning Roe V Wade. I think he actually knows that and just can’t bring himself to vote for any pro-choice candidate.
Zach
@Martin:
Republicans never vote for PAYGO. It’s fundamentally at odds with their legislative agenda. It sounds good, but it makes tax cuts that aren’t balanced with spending cuts impossible. Republicans want massive tax cuts that cannot conceivably be paid for without corresponding tax hikes. They don’t think they need to cut spending because the mystical Laffer curve will pay for any tax cut.
PAYGO was the creation of a Democratic Congress and was resisted even by the contract-with-america era Republicans (although it remained in effect and resulted in the surplus in 2000).
handy
@jenniebee:
I wonder what kind of reaction someone would get if they flipped that argument and said they opposed the death penalty because they believed in the sanctity of death.
+possibly too much
Zach
@eastriver:
Someone was at the ready with a boombox rocking Hail to the Chief so there must have been some forewarning that it’d be broadcast.
Martin
I just saw an ad for a Big Mac in a tortilla. What the fuck are they thinking?
Yutsano
@Zach: Republicans resisting cost saving measures? Unpossible!
handy
@Martin:
I don’t even think they do that in Mexico.
arguingwithsignposts
@Martin:
haha. I have no clue. But I have to try one. :)
jenniebee
@KDP: Even if the numbers are true though, are they really comparable? The Republican party shrank over the last several years as a percentage of the population, and they lost those members mostly to the Independents pool. Naturally, that means that the pool of Independents leans further to the right than it did when it wasn’t full of former Republicans. The same math applies to the question of how many points do Republicans need to win Independents by. They may be one point up with them now than they were in ’94, but they would have had to gain ten points to break even.
All of this is fantastically silly speculation to be engaging in in January, anyway. Scott Brown was a nobody three weeks before he was a kingmaker, McCain was running neck-and-neck until AIG collapsed and Sarah Palin said “all of them” and the Red Sox are often clear division champs on Mother’s Day. The Republicans’ best hope is that we don’t get a successful Jobs package and they don’t get the blame for stopping it, and they really don’t have much of a shot at making that happen.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: I would just to say I had. I’m just afraid I wouldn’t be able to finish the thing. Culinary fusion does have its limits.
Elie
@Martin:
Bravo! Well said, Martin
KDP
@KDP: Correcting myself, the post I quoted at RS was by Brian Faughnan, not Erik. Most of the commenters over there are appalled… appalled, I tell you, at the idea that the Repugs would consider trying to court independents….
@jenniebee: Personally, I thought the numbers didn’t make sense, but would be interested in looking at the ‘poll’ from which they came. As you say, it’s early days, but pragmatic planning for the future by R leadership could bear fruit if the D’s are caught as flatfooted as MA was last week.
My fear is the firebaggers who came out for Obama and Dem candidates last year, but because they didn’t get their ponies will sit on their hands this year. Further, getting Democratic seats in red seats was all well and good, but the philosophy of those holding the seats is quite different from traditional D’s. Oops ,about to time out of edit.
arguingwithsignposts
“I’ve read your legislation.”
Mike Pence is such a dick. I am so loving this smackdown, even watching the second time.
jenniebee
@arguingwithsignposts: I listen to Pat Buchannan and sometimes I forget he’s a racist misogynistic nazi-sympathizing douche.
Nah, that’s a lie. I never forget it. /sigh
arguingwithsignposts
@jenniebee:
win. there are some things we never forget. I never forget that he is PAID to be a racist, misogynist nazi-sympathizing douche.
freelancer (itouch)
@arguingwithsignposts:
uhm, I imagine something more profane and a bit more Daniel Day-Lewis than this:
Anne Laurie
@inkadu:
I’m guessing that’s the fetish code for ‘dildo, two wetsuits’.
soonergrunt
@arguingwithsignposts: You really need to stop with the whole equating a douche with Pat Buchanan.
One is a stinky disgusting vile thing, and the other is a douche.
Martin
@KDP: The most recent poll I can find is from October (ABC/WaPo), but the breakdown of self-identification was 20% GOP, 33% Dem, 42% Ind.
If the GOP has a 15 point gap in independents, then they’re tied, mainly because those 15 points are the ones that can no longer call themselves Republicans.
The key in November is Democrats getting their energy up. The independent gap doesn’t mean shit. Dems need to rally. Obama needs to hit the ground. I’m hoping after the reception today, he’ll see that, and that other Dems will see that too.
arguingwithsignposts
@soonergrunt:
I laughed out loud. my apologies to all douches everywhere.
Does Marsha Blackburn qualify as a dick? or just an ass?
Martin
@freelancer (itouch): I imagine Obama is wondering why it was so much work for him to get elected while voters seem to embrace dipshits like this guy.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: I’m thinking more along the lines of a misogynistic term for a female dog who’s had puppies. Hell I feel guilty enough just implying the term, mostly because I’ve owned a few in my day.
Mnemosyne
@jenniebee:
Exactly. He did it all through 2008 and it helped get enough independent votes for him to win. He’s saying, “See, it’s not so bad here on the Democratic side. We’re not as scary as they kept telling you. Come on over.”
Like it or not, Obama has no interest in grinding conservatives into the dirt. In principle that’s a good thing, but I can understand the frustration on our side since it’s only human for us to want a little payback for all of the Republican idiocy we’ve had to deal with for the past 8+ years.
Mike E
@darryl:
Whoa. I just finished ‘Inglourious Basterds.’ I felt a tingle up my leg!
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne:
Ahh c’mon. Are you telling me he didn’t enjoy what was happening even just a little? They threw whatever big guns they had and he demolished them. I’m sure he went right back to the White House and celebrated with Michelle.
arguingwithsignposts
Rep. Jason Chaffetz: “we have not been obstructionists.” Wow. any bigger liars out there?
soonergrunt
@arguingwithsignposts: Oh, dear. We’re going to have that whole Dicks, Pussies, and Assholes speech from Team America World Police, aren’t we?
“You’re wirtress, Arric Barwin!!”
She’s an asshole.
gwangung
Quite. He extends respect to the other side, even when, or especially when, they don’t deserve it.
And THAT’S a major quality that led independants and disaffected Republicans to vote for him. Any strategy that involves him discarding that respect is an automatic loser.
Mike E
@jenniebee:
Okay, so he’s a plagiarizing dickweasle–I stand corrected!
h/t jenniebee
Janet Strange
@inkadu:
Er, huh?
This KeyBee?
I remember all this from when she was state treasurer. There’s more about her tantrums here.
Mike E
@Janet Strange:
Hmm, ‘asshole’ it is.
Martin
@arguingwithsignposts:
Well, in the House that’s probably a fair statement. It’s the Senate that’s the problem and I think every single member of the House sees it that way.
Yutsano
@Martin: Except, well, it not. It’s true that the House has fewer parliamentary tricks to actually stop legislation, but voting no en masse gives pretty much the same appearance of wanting to just stop whatever they can with no regards to the actual issues.
Martin
@Yutsano: Sorry, I can’t interpret it that way. Voting along party lines is partisan, and certainly not helpful, but it’s not obstructionist because it does nothing to stop a majority of Democrats from passing what they want to pass. Basically, it puts the entire burden of legislating on the Dems and if they can’t pull their caucus together, that’s their problem.
So, I don’t like it, but I wouldn’t call it obstructionist. Now, filibustering the defense appropriations which would defund the troops in order to drag out a filibuster on HCR. THAT’S obstructionist.
I don’t think Obama has a big problem with the House Republicans. They’re loud and boorish and he called them out on that, and they sure as hell can’t talk about bipartisanship, but they aren’t getting in the way of the Dems doing anything they feel like doing. So, on that very narrow point, I’d give them a pass simply because they don’t have the means to do it. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it if they had the means, but they pretty much have to sit there and take it as things are.
Glocksman
@handy:
In the immortal words of Charlie Daniels:
:)
Yutsano
@Martin: A lot of that is due to the whipping skill of Nancy Pelosi. If she wasn’t as capable of herding her cats as she is there would be a ton more obstruction than happens now. You are correct that it is not obstruction in that they CAN’T stop any laws from passing, but voting as a bloc against every single proposal, even ones they should support, makes them look childish. The fact that Obama called them all on it today just makes me appreciate him in the White House more and more.
freelancer (itouch)
Given what has happened in the last week, I can’t help but be grateful that word “hybrid” is not in our political discourse, for now.
http://mm.todoseries.com/%2FEspañol%2FOcio%2FSeries%2FActualidad%2F76438/bsg-hybrid.jpg
that was a strawman giant of fucking goofy.
Martin
@Yutsano: No, I agree that Pelosi deserves a lot of credit here. Well, I’m wavering a bit because I wish the House would just pass the Senate bill and get this over with…
But, Democrats shouldn’t require the degree of herding that is needed these days, particularly when the stakes are so clear here.
Angry Space Cadet
Oh yes, your laughing now, but then one day we’ll all be watching the reconciliation vote on C-Span as all of the sudden, everyone in the GOP caucus disrobes. Yes, we will have health care reform, but it will come at the price of a lot of vomiting.
Yutsano
@Martin: Considering Nancy’s abilities I’d bet money she has the votes right now. But she’s leaning on Harry to not fuck them over, which pretty much leads up back to Orrin’s freak-out today. I think whoever said that Orrin wouldn’t be making noise like this unless Harry had the votes lined up may just have a point here. Otherwise it seems both ill-timed and out of place. Why say anything at all unless something is about to happen to make noise about? Call Orrin whatever you want but he’s never been the type to attract attention to himself like this.
MelodyMaker
yeah, yeah, Obama rulllzz. can we go back to calling each other the real racist? Damn, that was funny. I”M THE real racist. tell me I’m not—
I look sideways on dudes that buy American Spirits when I judge from their dress that they should be smoking Basics. fuckers.
And, chicks that claim that smart and geeky is sexy are probably right, but full of shit anyway because they aren’t calling me. And I’m cute. And I cook! Chicks. wtf. Maybe I should go on a date and learn something, but here I am.
Love you guys, fuk’n racist sexist Firebaggin Obots.
freelancer (itouch)
@Angry Space Cadet:
Republican Space Rangers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUXXwVmEWy0&feature=youtube_gdata
Fuck Yeah!
aka “I got a solution. You’re a dick! South Carolina, what up?!”
MelodyMaker
it was a busy week, this week. Now I feel better. Thanks, balloon-juice.com! whatever. Better than spooting on Facebook.
ruemara
I’m rather amused at all the snark about Obama asking for bipartisanship. You know how when someone asks if she looks fat in this, it’s often better not to say yes you look fat in that? Just because he’s publically “reaching across the aisle” and “looking for bipartisanshp” doesn’t mean he actually expects it. I know I’d spend my efforts keeping them focused on the shiny metal object, if I had good people to run around behind them and get it done before they can notice that this is just smoke and mirrors.
ruemara
@Martin: President McCain, Olympia Snowe and 1 other have voted for PAYGO each time it has been up for vote. Except for this last time.
Martin
@Yutsano: Makes sense. I’m not one to make loyalty threats about supporting Dems. I’m old enough to be past stomping upstairs and slamming my door. But if HCR doesn’t pass, I’m going to be rather emotionally despondent about the next 3 years. Today was a VERY uplifting day, and I hope it’s not just a freak event – I want to see Obama connecting with the public like this a lot more. And I’d be very happy to see an event like today’s broadcast with just House and Senate Dems in the room. I know that sounds very dangerous, because I think it would be a lot more combative than we might feel comfortable with, but Dems and Independents would walk away with a much greater understanding of where the party is, and I trust Obama would pull any tension and disagreement in the room into a common theme.
I do a lot of argument and negotiation in my job with colleagues. It’s not stressful, but these guys are pretty damn smart and they’ve all got me outgunned education-wise, so I always need to be on my game. I’m just so envious of how good Obama is at it. It’s not easy to be able to field a question you don’t see coming, organize the facts in your head to form a clear rebuttal, and then craft that into a stream of reasoning that isn’t insulting, rambling, or weak. And to do it all under pressure, knowing that you are massively outnumbered and outexperienced by many of the people in the room, and on TV so there’s no backsies if you fuck up. The guy is just a freak in this setting. I don’t know, maybe he sucks at a lot of the other stuff and that’s why we are where we are, but if I were the WH staff, I’d find a way to put Obama out there at least once a week doing this.
Martin
@ruemara: Well, sure, what else can they do? The teabaggers are doing their best to run McCain out of the Senate as it is, even willing to throw Palin overboard in the process. It’s like fucking Lord of the Flies over there.
Yutsano
@Martin: I vote for Dems mostly because there is no viable alternative. If both candidates suck equally I either write in or don’t vote. Since I live in a state where there will be two candidates (gotta love jungle primaries) that usually leaves the D side getting my choice. I have left the option blank before however, mostly to protest the bad options. I’m sincerely hoping that won’t happen again come November but we’ll see. I’m suddenly reminded of how after all the pantswetting a few sane voices were saying there is a political eternity between now and November. Today proved that was true more than anything.
MelodyMaker
I’m sure some of you got this, but. hmhmhm.
Subject: Excuses, Excuses: Barack Obama’s Year of Failure
From: “Michael Steele, RNC Chairman”
Date: Fri, January 29, 2010 1:57 am
MelodyMaker
“Can’t Hardly Wait” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M7q5Mn3-oM
but,
The Kinks – Tired of Waiting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz64hWng2vM
arguingwithsignposts
@MelodyMaker:
if anyone should be lecturing Obama on a “year of failure,” it’s Michael Steele.
Common Sense
Texas Politics are absolutely the most entertaining kind of politics. These people are truly insane. I too think White stands a decent chance. I’m a little biased since I live in Houston but even the Republicans here are ok with him — he’s not exactly anti business and he worked with a lot of Republicans in the City and State to get things done here. There’s definitely support for him
I also noticed that Austin is considerably less “liberal” the last few times I went there. In 2008 the place was Ron Paul central and last time I seriously saw Atlas Shrugged in four different homes in three days. These were College friends (I was there for the BCS Championship). Liberals. I kind of think Austin is just uberantiestablishment. They hate “the man” and Obama is “the man” these days. The suburbs are definitely a different story in Travis/Williamson Country as well. They’ve never been anywhere close to the stereotype of Austin and have consistently trended red the last few decades.
Common Sense
BTW Texas does a runoff if no one gets 50%. I think Medina is a thorn but won’t last. My money’s on Perry in the primary. Too much Washington hate for Kay.
MelodyMaker
@arguingwithsignposts:
Ten Years Gone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v16CxX_2qec
Johnny B
If the House does not have the votes to pass the Senate health care bill, they should start picking and choosing discreet parts of health care reform and forcing passage of those. I’d love to see Republicans defending recission, dropping insureds for preexisting conditions, against Meicare buy-in for 55-65 year olds, a national insurance exchange for small businesses and the self-employed, ect. If they filibuster, then maybe, just maybe the American public will learn that it is the Republicans who are holding up health care.
Bob In Pacifica
How much more obstructionist could the Repubs be? Will Orrin show up in Sherrod Brown’s office dressed as a telephone repairman to tamper with the phones? Or maybe a staffer will just hack into Dem email accounts?
matoko_chan
why not…..just let them filibuster?
they filibustered against civil rights for blacks for 57 days.
it will just make them look like the stupid, obstructionist assholes they are.
the rules for filibustering are milk and water only, and no potty breaks.
a single republican senator can only filibuster until his bladder is ready to explode. Strom Thurmond filibustered civil rights for 24 hours, but he took a steam bath before he started.
Let the country see them for what they are, just like the country saw them for racist assholes during civil rights.
mattH
Yutsano:
SLC is more liberal than any non-urban area in Idaho. Considering the fact that most of southern Idaho is Mormon…makes me wonder what vibe it is.
Wile E. Quixote:
Only because the most media-conscious church in the U.S. was getting massive amounts of bad publicity for their and their adherent’s funding and support of Prop 8 in California.
Dead right on the beer though. Polygamy Porter is one of the best, low alcohol or not.
mattH
Even though there isn’t enough bleach to scrub that from my mind, I’m willing to make that sacrifice.
Sly
Threats of “all-out political war” from the chief architect of the nuclear option and a Senator who voted for reconciliation bills seven times in as many years (and helped usher in the 1996 rule change to allow deficit spending through reconciliation). That’s funny, and about as consistent as a schizophrenic on LSD.
It’s all theater.
@matoko_chan:
The cloture rules since 1975 don’t actually require someone to stand up and read from the phone book anymore. It can still happen, but those are usually filibusters designed to delay or protest. Reid himself did this back in 2003, when he read from a book on his hometown for something like 8 hours. Actually killing a bill just needs 41 people to vote against cloture. They can do a traditional filibuster, but its at the discretion of the minority, not the majority.
Even if this wasn’t the case, the minority could delay indefinitely by using repeated quorum calls (a request of the presiding officer to count the number of members present to see if the necessary number of representatives exists to conduct business, which under the Constitution in 60 for the Senate) if the votes for cloture didn’t exist, which effectively means that a quorum is absent and the body must adjourn. No one in the minority would have to do anything that would make them look bad, and disappearing quorums (asking for a quorum and then having 41 people not vote) are still permissible in the Senate. In the House, the actually count the members whether they respond or not.
General Winfield Stuck
@Sly: LOL, I remember that day well, back when Harry had some fire in his belly. I learned more than I ever wanted to about his hometown of Searchlight Az.
General Winfield Stuck
That should be Nevada. not AZ
Rob
I am really tempted to ask Congress to pass the Senate bill using reconciliation…
Perhaps they let the anger regarding the economy that seems to be projecting itself in anger toward health care quiet down, and try to pass financial industry reform (a popular populist issue) and also pass some budget control measures – also a popular issue which goes to the heart of the healthcare complaints. Then they get 2 things accomplished (one of the complaints against Obama and the Dems) – 2 things that have independent support and are seen as centrist issues, which paves the way for healthcare.
If Republicans say No to those votes and hold them up, then the rage will turn toward them and then the Dems should use reconciliation to pass both of these 2 bills and then also use it to pass healthcare.
If the Republicans work with Dems to pass both of these bills, Dems then try to negotiate a health care package with the Republicans. But the Dems should hold out as a threat to Republicans that if they don’t come to an agreement that can get passed, then the Dems will pass the Senate health care bill using reconciliation.
I also don’t know why the Dems are so afraid of Republicans using the filibuster. If Republicans pull that care, they look like the “Party of No” and eventually Americans get sick of the filibuster effort and turn against them for using it.
Rob
Newmericans.com