Marc Ambinder on McCain’s DADT flip-flop:
Given today’s developments, McCain should support the DADT repeal. He does not. Theory one is that he’s worried that J.D. Hayworth will use it against him in the primaries. Theory two is that McCain has come to believe that Gates and Mullen undercut Stanley McChrystal and David Petraeus at key moments during the Afghanistan debate. Theory three is that McCain, who, has, in private, expressed disdain at his party’s anti-gay stances, has changed his mind and now has a different view of homosexuality.
chopper
yeah, i vote for door number four.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
Theory four, he hates his own gay self.
Ash Can
Theory Five is that he’s just a typical Republican and is automatically against whatever Barack Obama and the Democrats are for.
akaoni
McCain’s already dead to the true believers. He needs to get back to being mavericky.
rob!
Oh, for fuck’s sake Ambinder, why not come up with 412 more–one for every year McCain’s been alive–reasons why McCain is backpedaling to try and give him the benefit of the doubt.
He’s a craven opportunist, and can’t stand the idea of being kicked out of the Senate and having to listen to that c*nt wife of his (his words!) drone on and on about she’s the real breadwinner in the family. He’ll say or do anything to keep his seat, that way he can take pot shots at the black guy that kicked his ass on both coasts and Indiana.
Andy
There’s nothing McCain could do now that would make the ‘baggers happy. Hell, I just saw Texas Governor Rick “Secession” Perry referred to as a RINO.
me
Theory 6: He’s always been a sociopath senile or not.
demo woman
This is what the Washington Post says. McCain appears to shift stance on ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy
DougJ
@me:
I actually don’t buy that, all in all. McCain-Feingold was important legislation and McCain-Kennedy would have been too. And neither was good for him politically.
So maybe I shouldn’t say he’s a sociopath at all, just senile. I don’t know. He was never the saint the Village made him out to be but there are various things in his political record that are genuinely honorable.
Bun
“Senile sociopath” is just a euphemism for crazy old fuck.
Just Some Fuckhead
Theory 5: Sarah Palin led John McCain to the Lord and now he hates fags like Jesus requires.
Captain Haddock
Well changing his stance got him a headline, what other motivation does he need?
BruinKid
@rob!: So basically, Theory #1. He wants to save his own butt in the primary.
I think it’s really that simple, and people are reading waaaaaaay too much into this. Fortunately, this provides Generic Democrat more ammunition to use against McCain should he survive the primary. It also provides ammo for Hayworth in the primary, to show the video of McCain’s prior position.
cleek
McCain’s such a maverick he won’t even side with his own professed beliefs.
you’re expectations are inadequate, when faced with a maverick of mavericsitude.
mr. whipple
Wide stance?
mcc
It’s not the theory I buy, but you know, I think really this is the scariest possibility of all. That maybe McCain not only is wanting to tell the military how the military should be run, not only is trying to intervene in not just military policy but actually office politics in the Pentagon, but is actually willing to warp U.S. politics and screw with tens of thousands of people just to get upper hand or payback for one pentagon office-politics player or another.
I think some mixture of the Hayworth theory and the “petty and out of it” theory would be the most likely ones, but really, looking at some of the things he’s said about DADT I do wonder a little if in his heart McCain thinks of himself as commander-in-chief.
arguingwithsignposts
Given that the military is apparently going to take a year to “study” the issue (what is it with Washington and extraordinarily long studies?), it’s not likely to matter much.
demo woman
@mr. whipple: Actually McCain hasn’t figured out what type of stance to take. He has to ask Cindy.
gwangung
McCain is petty enough to indulge in this.
Lev
Wonder if the wife is going to have words with him later.
You know, after reading David Foster Wallace’s account of McCain’s 2000 campaign, I never figured that Cindy McCain would be the saner and more likable of the two of them. Life is full of surprises.
gwangung
@arguingwithsignposts: I dunno, but since it took way more than that for desegregation, why are we so surprised at that?
beltane
I’ll go with a combination of theory #1 and theory #4. John McCain is a senile sociopath who is afraid of the Republican base.
John S.
That will rank right up there with the decades long study by pre-adolescent boys on whether or not girls give you cooties.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Theory 4: He’s a petulant contrarian fuck who should be crammed into the same hell-bound basket as Lieberman.
Violet
Theory Seven: He misses being the center of attention and will do or say anything to return to the limelight. Especially if he gets to bring his boyfriend Joe with him.
HumboldtBlue
McCain has some things on his records that are genuinely honorable? McCain-Feingold was nothing more than a cynical attempt to apply salve to his seriously chapped ass after he was caught in the last major Republican-backed theft of regular Americans’ money — the savings and loan crime.
Fuck that angry little man.
Just Some Fuckhead
Theory 6: McCain was so disgusted by the antics of shrill gay blog commenters that he turned on them.
SteveinSC
@Bob (Not B.o.B.):
Right answer, Bob! As Winston Churchill once said “… and what are the noble traditions of the Royal Navy? Rum, sodomy and the lash.” Long nights a-sea and a lonely
sailor’sNavy Captain’s thoughts turn to the handsome young semen, uh, I mean, seaman. And, John McC. don’t try to fool us with that wall-plug powered woman, your Venus 4000 manekin you call a wife.cleek
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
i’d like to recommend that McCain’s head be stuffed up Lieberman’s ass, and Lieberman’s head be stuffed up McCain’s ass, and the two of them dipped in bronze and mounted on a marble plinth on the Capitol steps. and there they can couple for all eternity in their perverse yin/yang Ouroboros of self-worshiping failure. and the monument shall be called…
The AristocratsThe Mavericks.mcc
Yes, but is he good enough at planning ahead to indulge in it?
El Cid
O/T: Max Baucus is going to help the jobs bill by bringing a key section back to his committee:
Dems promise, however, that Baucus is just protecting his turf and will not create a sub-sub-sub committee of 400 Republicans and 2 right wing Democrats to f*** around for 27 months while Teatards paint Hitler mustaches on every picture of Obama in the country.
The Other Steve
You dirty hippies obviously didn’t read McCain’s statement. He said when the military leadership came to the Senate and said they should change the law, only then would McCain consider changing the law.
Well McCain considered it and he said NO.
Mike in NC
Let the Teabaggers devour one another like rotting zombies from a cheesy horror movie. Brains!
McCrazy has always had a chip on his shoulder because he never got to be an admiral like his daddy and grandpa. Country First be damned.
The Other Steve
It still seems to me that after McCain lost the election he should have realized he has to change his opinions because he’s wrong.
ed
Where did McCain stand on DADT when it was enacted? I assume he was against the very idea of gays in officially in the military at all, but what did he say at that time?
Pangloss
Lindsay Graham isn’t going to be speaking to him in the morning.
GregB
If President Obama is for it, Bitter Bizarro President McCain is against it.
The man has no principles.
-G
Citizen Alan
I would just like to say that, for all the complaints I have made about President Obama over the last several weeks based on the many ways in which I feel he has let both me and the nation down … I still get down on my knees every night and give thanks to a merciful God that Obama is our President right now instead of this repulsive and loathsome old man. It is my opinion that, with the exception of Joe Lieberman, no one in the U.S. Senate is as utterly devoid of personal character as John McCain.
dmsilev
@rob!:
Given how much the Village bobbleheads love him, I’d imagine that even if he loses his seat, he’ll still get regular invitations to go on TV to take potshots at Obama. Only difference would be that he’d be described as an “elder statesman”.
-dms
Ash
@Lev:
I wouldn’t consider her either sane (stealing babies and all) or likable (her remarks about soldiers getting PTSD just because they weren’t tough enough). Just not as scary as her husband, considering she has no real power except with her credit card.
demo woman
@mr. whipple: Are you having a nice birthday. Do you have lots of presents wrapped in Charmin. I understand that it’s the gift that keeps on giving.
@ed: Read the post and the links. It appears that he has flip flopped or flopped flipped on the issue. Maybe he changed his stance because he’s afraid the news media will stop calling him if he agrees with the pres.
gwangung
On the other hand, she may have been basing that latter on first hand observation, so you’d have to give her a mulligan…
mcc
@ed: What an interesting question.
Checking Google all I can find is that McCain voted for the Military Personnel Eligibility Act of 1993 (the DADT law).
I wonder how one would go about finding the Congressional Record for the debate / final statements on that bill. Or if there are C-SPAN archives…?
Citizen Alan
@Mike in NC:
Perhaps he shouldn’t have crashed all those jets then — more jets, I am told, than any other Navy officer who has ever crashed multiple jets without being drummed out of the service for it.
AkaDad
Theory 8:
Meth binge.
gocart mozart
Heh
http://www.redstate.com/coldwarrior/2010/01/16/jd-hayworth-creams-mccain-in-straw-poll-at-maricopa-county-rep-party-annual-meeting-sources-a-more-conservative-party/
Comrade Kevin
@cleek: That was awesome.
Lev
@Ash: Well, she backs gay marriage now. That’s not nothing.
The Grand Panjandrum
Let us not forget that former POW McCain is the man who voted against a moderate HCR bill after he himself has been the beneficiary of government run healthcare for his entire life. (He was covered at birth because his father was in the Navy.)
Fuck John McCain, he is a disgraceful, bitter old man.
Mike E
He’s angry because they play on his lawn and clouds are gay, dammit!
Ruckus
@cleek:
Best statue ever.
First of all I thought that their heads were already located as you specify so all that’s left is the bronzing. You did mean to just dip them in the hot bronze? Please say you did.
mcc
@Mike E: Which lawn
Midnight Marauder
Theory #9:
ManBearPig.
Mike E
@mcc:
The one with the anatomically correct lawn jockeys, natch.
Citizen_X
Theory #10: Maybe you shouldn’t layer on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt.
MikeJ
Sadly the GPO online archive only goes back to ’94.
eemom
McCain is just trying desperately to stay relevant.
Either that, or DougJ is right and he’s still trying to suck up to the “base” because he’s forgotten the election is over.
freelancer
Theory #11: That [gay] one!
r€nato
@BruinKid:
Unfortunately, the Arizona Democratic Party could not find its way out of a wet paper sack if you gave them a box cutter and directions.
The GOP primary winner, takes the general election unless McCain/Hayworth drops dead or is caught soliciting sex in a bathroom stall.
JK
John McCain is a warped, frustrated, bitter man and a worthless piece of scum.
r€nato: Inexplicably, Obama helped McCain big time by removing the only democrat, Janet Napolitano, who had a legitimate chance of beating him in a general election.
demo woman
@eemom: If McCain agrees with the President, the news media will not seek out his opinion. What else would he do on a Sunday morning while Lindsay is in church?
shortstop
Whatever that young black punk who shellacked the Maverick 16 months ago is for, Cotton Hill McCain is against. There is absolutely nothing Obama supports that McCain will stand up for. And this…
…makes me wonder if there isn’t an element of sticking it to the c#nt in all this. Not the major motivation, but one of them.
MikeJ
@mcc:
In doing some more research, it appears that the bill was never given this name. After passage right wingers decided they didn’t like DADT and just started calling it what they wanted.
See:
http://cmrlink.org/HMilitary.asp?docID=300 (right wing loons)
and Moonie Times:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jan/02/gays-and-the-military/
On the one hand we have the law that Congress passed with bipartisan veto-proof majorities, “Section 654, Title 10,” which could have been named the “Military Personnel Eligibility Act of 1993.”
(bold mine)
mr. whipple
Yes, very nice. Wife got me a bunch of cd’s, some books, a box of Godiva, I got some business today, my senile dad recognized me and smiled.
A damn fine day. Thank you!
shortstop
Why does the edit button never appear when I’ve just posted “sticking it to the cunt”? Um, I trust you all got the reference.
Cat Lady
I can’t wait until Hayworth kicks his wrinkled old ass in the primary. What will really be interesting is whether the Sunday bobbleheads will still care about President McCain. I don’t think they can quit him.
mcc
@Cat Lady: Maybe they could give him his own show.
mcc
@MikeJ: Huh. Looks like wikipedia needs some corrections…
aimai
I don’t even think McCain could get back with the teabaggers if he divorced Mrs. M and straight married Palin. I’m pretty sure he’s not going to try. He may like being a Senator, but he really likes being Mr. Beer Millionaire even more. But can’t he go out with a little class? I guess the question, after the 2008 election, answers itself.
aimai
Cat Lady
@mcc:
Maverick has already been done. Maybe POW! The Life and Times of a Sad Little Man.
r€nato
@Cat Lady:
I have a hard time believing Hayseed beats McCain. The teabagger contingent is loud and noisy and I think Hayseed has spent a little too long listening to the near-unanimous praise from pre-screened callers to his hate radio show. But ultimately, I don’t think they have the numbers behind them. McCain has the establishment and the state party apparatus behind him.
It should be messy and fun to watch, though.
WereBear
@cleek: Criminy, I saw that in my head.
It was extraordinary!
Don’t know whether to be mad, sad, or glad, but great writing, all the same.
MikeJ
ITYM “Opposite married'”.
de stijl
What are you rebelling against, Johnny?
Whaddaya got?Myself.Cat Lady
@r€nato:
Re-posting from up thread: Hayworth creams McCain in straw poll.
The Populist
McCain is an old fool and as much as I despise Hayworth, I hope he beats him in the primary for two simple reasons:
A) He will lose and it makes Palin look like a loser as well.
B) Hayworth is such a whack job that even the people of Arizona may vote Dem this time around.
This is the state that gave Janet Napolitano two terms as governor so I believe they may not be as batshit insane to give that failure Hayworth a seat in the Senate.
The Populist
@r€nato:
He may be the establishment, but right now the party is in turmoil. I see him possibly losing which opens the door to a Dem winning. Hayworth may win in the country clubs of Scottsdale and Tucson but he won’t win over middle of the road folks of the surrounding Phoenix area who may just vote for a dem this time round.
MikeJ
@mcc: What a surprise. Don’t suppose you know the bill number that passed, do ya? It would drop right into the offending sentence as a replacement for the non-NPOV text.
scav
ok, sudden veer into OTland. What is it about batshit? Is it really that much loopier than all other forms of guano? Is there, in fact, a DSM-IV for excrement?
WereBear
@scav: Well, there’s also “bat” ends with a “t’ so there’s a rhythm to it.
Can’t do that with unicorn.
schrodinger's cat
Theory 5: He is a self serving publicity whore, takes whateverstance that will keep him in news.
rob!
As much as I’d hate to risk Hayworth actually being in the Senate, I’d friggin’ LOVE IT if he smashed McCain in the primary.
Just Some Fuckhead
@rob!:
I think Hayworth would be an improvement over McCain if for no other reason than we don’t have to deal with this bullshit centrist mavericky nonsense from McCain anymore and perhaps it will get him off my teevee.
jeffreyw
@WereBear:
a unicorn is a sorta horse
and horseshit is a road apple
and green apples is
a nam war sit rep
which means i’m ok
so it all fits
if you are batshit
cmorenc
@DougJ
Except that McCain has a history of kicking over from honorable eclectic maverick into sleazy sociopath whenever:
a) he has an opportunity for major personal advancement if he flips into sleazy sociopath mode;
b) he receives (or is in imminent danger of receiving) a painful political ass-kicking handed to him by someone who is little but a sleazy sociopath (George Bush in 2000 comes readily to mind).
It takes a sleazy sociopathic frame of mind not merely to pick Sarah Palin as his VP candidate, but to pick her in the shallow, thoughtlessly hurried manner he did. It also speaks volumes about McCain’s base frame of mind that his true preferred pick would have been…Joe Lieberman, as close to a prototype of a sleazy hypocritical sociopath as you’ll find in modern American politics.
ajr22
Some ass on harball just said that don’t ask don’t tell should be repealed, so NO gays can serve no matter what. He then went on to say all gay activity should be illegal in this country. It was kinda shocking, Mathews did not really attack him for it, just left the conversation at that. America’s religious zealots are really scary.
GregB
ajr22,
When I was younger and following politics in NH in the 80’s there was a state rep. who was against allowing gays to donate blood.
She then amended her opinion. “If they want to donate blood, they have to donate ALL of it.”
-G
scav
@WereBear: Well, the combo does work in that blunt Anglo-Saxon manner and there’s a visceral – well, labial – joy in the B rather than the R of Ratshit (well, with a good hard drawn out trill to the RRR. . .) Still. Doesn’t help much with the whole mental stability issue. I’m liking unicorn poop though, must be good for something…. umm, topical topical. OK, You’ll find McCain’s principles and sanity filed next to the Unicorn Poop.
freelancer
SMBC posted this Sunday, and if I didn’t know any better, I’d say these could be some of Chris Matthews’ lost segments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGArqoF0TpQ
Fucking balance.
Napoleon
@ajr22:
You know, some times the best thing is to let people put out there what they believe and let the people decide. Matthews put on the most unvarnished radical in defense of DADT. Maybe nothing more is necessary to discredit DADT.
demo woman
@freelancer: I sent Sullivan an email earlier stating that most soldiers don’t care what the gunner believes as they are capable and have your back. Can a religious zealot or racist truly have the back of those they hate? The law should weed out homophobics, racists and zealots rather than just identifying gays. Admittedly some gays might be excluded under my plan but that’s a different issue.
Chuck Butcher
He’s an opportunistic fucking coward and if you have some doubts ask his first wife and to hear his prison tapes. Then go ask his buddy from the S&L.
Cat Lady
@Napoleon:
It’s like when DougJ puts Broder’s most inane brain droppings in block quotes. It speaks for itself. Loudly.
Chuck
Hayworth being in the Senate would be no different, what with McCain pretty much backing every right-wing batshit thing just to gain cred and stick it to The Cunt and/or That One. Unlike McCrankypants, he’d have no seniority,
TR
So…
Theory one means the Maverick is flip-flopping for nothing more than crass political gain.
Theory two means the Maverick is flip-flopping out of childish spite.
Theory three means the Maverick has had a sudden recent conversion on how he feels about gay men for some reason.
mcc
@MikeJ: Well so let’s see here…
Apparently the DADT law wasn’t passed as a bill by itself, but rather was written into the text of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1994 (which would, I believe, have been passed in 1993). Specifically section 571. (In the Thomas version you can find the text under “subtitle G”).
There appears to be a good if disorganized collection of information on original DADT passage, including some very limited excerpts from the Congressional record, here. Haven’t had a chance to look at them fully yet.
The impression I’m getting is that there was no specific, independent vote on DADT, rather the bill appears to have been reported out of committee with Sec. 571 present. I say this because Sen. Boxer appears to have submitted an amendment to strip the DADT language; it went down by 63 votes. (Anyone looking for debate money quotes would probably be best off looking either in committee meetings– was McCain on the Armed Services committee in 1993?– or in whatever debate occurred around the Feinstein amendment. As far as the latter thing goes a partial excerpt from the debate quoting only Sen.s Boxer and Wellstone as at the Stanford site).
If I can figure out exactly how this happened I’ll modify wikipedia…
suzanne
@The Populist:
You think? I genuinely fear the voters in the crappier parts of the state. Plus, the Mormons in the East Valley will never go liberal.
I remember when I was in fourth grade. Hayworth (this was when he was a weatherman) came to my elementary school and read us a story. He was a scary bastard even then.
ajr22
@Napoleon: I agree with this, Mathews clearly pulled that opinion out of this idiot to discredit him. However that is a pretty radical statement, I would expect Mathews to at least have a snarky response before the segment ended. Whatever, I’m sure the guy was actually gay himself. He kinda looked and reminded me of Alby from Big Love.
suzanne
Oh, and I personally vote for Theory Number Spineless Craven Bastard.
eemom
McCain is as “honorable” as he is a “maverick.” Both labels are pure emmessemm mythology.
Omnes Omnibus
@scav:
Moreover, rats already have their place in the lexicon of insanity: crazy as a shithouse rat.
MikeJ
@mcc:
Without looking it up, I seem to recall there being legislation offered saying that it was a question best left to the commander in chief and leaving the congress out of it. No surprise at all that congress won’t vote to take their power away. And to be fair, I like having even a messily run congress rather than a king.
maus
He has a lifetime of entitlement and flush-faced hissy fits behind him, I think he can call them up pretty much at will.
mr. whipple
Agreed with all, but consider the HUGE upside of never seeing President McStunty on Sunday talk shows.
mcc
@MikeJ: Yeah, that exactly. The debate snippet I referred to is here (apparently it was amendment 783). The important thing about it seems to have been not its text, which was nonbinding “sense of Congress” language, but that it wiped out the binding text that was there before (and which apparently survived into the final bill).
Does Balloon Juice still have that 2-link limit?
The Populist
@suzanne:
Suzanne, many in the state may lean right from what I observe but they may blanch at a scumbag like Hayworth. It all depends on the Dem candidate. If it’s a repeat of Massachusetts, the dem candidate loses.
I see hope only because the areas I mentioned did vote for Napolitano who was not a full on DINO like many Dems from that state.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@cleek: I’d like to recommend that should an artist ever propose such a project, we all chip in to make it happen!
Put me down for $100.
Cain
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Oh no, my friend. He will only grow stronger and become more mavericky and be on your tv all the time. The guy is like the boomer character from Left4Dead. Some stupid zombie who pukes on you and then get a bunch of zombies attack you while you’re in a green haze wiping the shit off your face.
Hell be showing up a LOT more often and he’ll be part of some thinkthank and will be an expert on Obama or some shit like that.
cain
Anne Laurie
@scav:
For gardeners, guano (batshit, seal shit, or seabird shit) is a special high-quality premium fertilizer. Mere bullshit is good enough for humble peasants, but a plutocrat with Prezdent McCain’s vast wealth can afford the FINEST scent-free, phosphorus-rich fertilizer… grows lawns so lush, they’ll look just like astroturfing!
Also, a vulgar person might say that McCain has soured on DADT because having his own cock sucked non-stop by the Media Village Idiots over the last several years turns out to be not as much fun as he had expected. Fortunately, none of the first hundred commentors here were vulgar… enough.
scav
@Anne Laurie: ah! I knew I could count on someone here! Premium Gold-Plated Platinum Member Batshit.
TooManyJens
@Ash Can: Ding ding ding!
DougJ
@mcc:
Does Balloon Juice still have that 2-link limit?
Yes.
maus
Big fucking deal. McCain is too narcissistic for that to matter. He’s not even so much about the agenda as self-aggrandizement. He’s much worse with Liebermann in that aspect. Slightly less harmful, but his ego is everything.
suzanne
@The Populist:
Yeah, it’s a goofy place. 5 of 8 congresscritters are Dems (though my own, Mitchell, is pissing me off as of late), but Kyl and McCain have been our Senators since I was in grade school. Why do we keep electing these crotch lice when there’s obviously room in the state politics for the not-insane? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
Paul in KY
I think it’s a combo of 4 & 5.
Should be great news for President McCain!
Surly Duff
Maybe he rewatched Top Gun, found some of the obvious undercurrents that he had not seen before and decided to change his position. This should provide all the proof anyone needs:
And you know what happened as a result of this romantic dalliance between Maverick and Iceman? Goose died. Try to refute that evidence!
Surly Duff
<a href=”“>
Link Fail