You probably heard about this:
Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) has put an extraordinary “blanket hold” on at least 70 nominations President Obama has sent to the Senate, according to multiple reports this evening. The hold means no nominations can move forward unless Senate Democrats can secure a 60-member cloture vote to break it, or until Shelby lifts the hold.
“While holds are frequent,” CongressDaily’s Dan Friedman and Megan Scully report (sub. req.), “Senate aides said a blanket hold represents a far more aggressive use of the power than is normal.”
The Mobile Press-Register picked up the story early this afternoon. The paper confirmed Reid’s account of the hold, and reported that a Shelby spokesperson “did not immediately respond to phone and e-mail messages seeking confirmation of the senator’s action or his reason for doing so.”
It goes without saying that this shows what a great, venerable institution the Senate is, what a serious, bipartisan legislator Shelby is, and (of course) what a failure Obama has been at changing the tone in Washington.
Here’s what I’d like to know: is there any limit to how much a strong-willed minority can slow things down in the Senate? Could a new Republican Senator do something like this every day and bring everything to a complete halt for months on end?
Comrade Jake
What I don’t understand is why the Dems don’t call for a vote on one of the nominees, ASAP. Pick a nominee that is by all indications perfectly qualified, but not irreplaceable. Then put the newly minted Senator from MA on the spot to explain why he’s going to vote in lockstep with the GOP.
valdivia
I think you mean ‘a strong willed *minority*’ no?
Given how they behave I think the answer is they can do this with impunity because Reid lets them and the media enables them by not shining a light on how obstructionist they truly are.
Norbrook
Isn’t it amazing at how a Republican can on one hand rail against “pork,” but turn right around and hold up everything because they didn’t get theirs? It’s a good thing they’re immune to the toxic effects of hypocrisy.
bob h
I really criticize Reid for meekly accepting this crap without a peep of protest.
Perhaps time for a “Constitutional option” on holds? Just have Biden make the ruling breaking them, let the Republicans fulminate for a few weeks.
RSR
If the caucus holds, it seems so. And right now, I doubt very many GOPpers will risk taking on his/her own party/appear to be supporting Obama.
All very distinguished, the lot of them.
That institution is in serious need of reform. It can bring the wheels of governing to a halt, which is too much power.
beltane
Shelby’s move is the parliamentary version of the attack on Ft. Sumpter. If this asshat is not made an example of within the next few days, it will show that representative democracy is dead at the federal level in this country.
DougJ
@valdivia:
Thanks — I corrected it.
cat48
Yes they can and according to Howard Fineman, that is the plan because “real americans” don’t understand why nothing gets done. They just know nothing does. The Repugs are counting on it staying this way too since they have a 24 hr msg service. They see it as a winning strategy, and it probably is for them.
beltane
@bob h: Reid has lost any control he may have had over the Senate. His meekness is like blood in the water to the Republican sharks. If the Senate Dems were smart, they would find some way to replace him and then proceed from there.
John Quixote
The rules Reid agreed to at the beginning of the current session of Congress allows for this. There is no limit to how much and how long they can do this kind of shit. Sure, only a crazy redneck asshole like Shelby would do something like this, but IOKIYAR. Expect to hear nothing but the sound of crickets chirping over this. Because Rahm and Rushbo said ‘retarded.’
I really wish that this would be the ‘live wire in gasoline’ like Josh Marshall suggests, but I’m not getting my hopes up.
geg6
Reid could stop this. However, being Reid, he certainly won’t. I say Obama should do a massive recess appointment. Fuck it. And then when the Village screams bloody murder, let them explain why it was okay for W to do it and not Obama.
thomas
The Senate starts out as an un-democratic body (something like 20 states, total, don’t equal the population of California = 40 votes vs. 2 votes) and it has even more un-democratic rules. Time for a con-con ti fix the mess.
In my dreams.
Punchy
Yes, and they will. People perhaps laughed when I predicted that Obama would get NOT A SINGLE MAJOR PIECE of legislation passed in 4 years b/c they Republicans will filibuster everything.
This is just more of the same. And to those that say “Why dont Dems call them out on this?”, I say……call out to whom? Since when has the media cared about anyone but McCain and Thune and Limbaugh?
KCinDC
Shelby was elected in 1986 as a Democrat and switched parties in 1994 so he could continue to be part of the majority.
Longtime DC residents still remember him as the guy who forced us to hold a referendum on whether to institute a death penalty in DC, after one of his aides was murdered. The referendum was voted down, with even some death penalty supporters voting no because they didn’t like that it was being imposed by Congress (in which we have no voting representation) rather than our own elected government.
Amazingly, Shelby has not yet signed on to a the latest similar attempt to force a referendum, this time on whether to allow same-sex marriage in DC.
Michael D.
I think Obama could go on TV and make a very good case to the American people that Republicans are being a bunch of children and that, in order to get ANYTHING done for the American people, the Senate is going to have to abolish the filibuster for as long as the Republicans are in the minority.
@dmsilev: or this.
kay
Is this actually about Gates?
To clarify: I think Gates intends to cut some defense programs that have been sacred cows. I think he has the will to do this because this is probably his last government job, and he’s always wanted to do it, and now he can.
No one has the balls to cut these programs because Congress protects them in their own states and districts.
dmsilev
I’d love to see Obama issue an ultimatum to the Senate: Override Shelby’s holds, or I’ll recess-appoint all of them.
Oh, and I’m sure Shelby is on record attacking the stimulus package because “government spending doesn’t create jobs” or something along those lines. So let’s add hypocrisy to the long list of other reasons why he should be repeatedly slapped in the face with a large wet fish.
-dms
earlofscruggs
Obama has failed to change the tone in washington. He has sunk us deep in debt, and he has tried to force health care down our throats.
We need a new party in power. A party that is free of blame for the mess in Washington. A party that magically sprang into existence just yesterday, willed into being by the plaintive cry of Lady Liberty.
That party is here! They will save us from the long nightmarish reign of the Democrat Party and its Kenyan interloper president whom ACORN elected through trickery.
They call themselves…Republicans! They are the party of bold new ideas. They will cut taxes on the wealth-creators. They will stop wasting your money on welfare. They are pro-business. They will spread democracy around the globe.
It will all work out magically. Hooray, America will be free once again!
Face
How? Please explain.
Comrade Jake
The real problem I have here is the sense that even Democratic Senators prefer this sort of thing to removing the 60-vote rule. It gives any one of them a great deal of power. Don’t want to give me what I want? Well, then I’ll just vote with the Republicans!
We are truly, royally, epically screwed.
ericvsthem
Rethugs would have been screaming for the “nuclear option” months ago if the Dems behaved this way prior to the leadership change in the Senate in 2007.
It is high time that the Reid and Obama start making the same threat and then use recess appointments to prove that they mean business.
zmulls
Yes they can. There has always been this power for Senators to get consideration on small things, or to hold up a handful of nominations for principled reasons (even if they’re the wrong principles).
The Democrats used it to block a handful of judges and other appointees.
The mitigating factor is supposed to be SHAME. That Senators want to at least appear fair and honorable and that it would look shameful to abuse the privilege. The current Republican party by and large could care less about the character of the institution. If it’s not illegal they will do it.
I do agree that we may be reaching some sort of tipping point. I don’t know what happens short term, apart from a whole raft of recess appointments and/or HCR reconciliation; and I don’t know what happens long term either.
You know there’s going to be one or two SCOTUS vacancies in the near term (next two years). Can you imagine?
Egypt Steve
I don’t get it. Chris Dodd tried to put a “hold” on telecom spy amnesty, and Reid just blew him off. So it can be done. When will somebody finally slap Reid and the rest of the Senate Dem. “Leadership” into realizing that it is time to forget “comity,” and end this comedy of errors in teh Senate?
I say, it is time to be as petty as possible. Move them out of their offices. Cut their budgets. Make them park in Bethesda and take the train into D.C. Whatever discretion Reid has, exercise it! And exercise it for the expressed purpose of making the thugs’ lives as miserable as possible, in every way possible! Make them eat shit!
Zifnab
@Face: Reid acknowledges the hold by convention. But he doesn’t have to. He could call for a full open vote. This would bog down the Senate (Oh noes! Not that!) and delay a jobs bill. So Reid will quietly ignore the gut punch, and continue on trying to pull 59 votes together so we can watch another piece of legislation get filibustered.
I don’t see the point. The stimulus was a fluke. Snowe and Collins have been brought back into line, and Arlen Specter has flipped and gone completely native. You’re not going to get your 60 votes, even if you can whip the conserva-Dem caucus into line.
Ailuridae
I’m 4 hours and 20 minutes into watching/listening to MSNBC’s early morning coverage* and, unsurprisingly, I have yet to hear them mention this. I can’t even imagine the hysteria if Dianne Feinstein were holding up something under Bush for earmarks.
* Its possible, but unlikely I missed it.
beltane
@Egypt Steve: It would appear that only Republicans are allowed to place holds on anything. An yeah, Shelby’s life ought to be made a living hell, not that this will ever happen.
The Grand Panjandrum
This very item has been in the comments of the last two threads. Shelby is extorting the taxpayers money from Congress. If Ben Nelson is going to catch hell for it then so should this cretinous rat-bastard. BTW here is a video of Shelby denouncing … what, you ask? Why, earmarks! But, you see, this hold is not to get funding for earmarks, it is to ensure absolutely vital programs for the good of this great nation. (Rumor has it he’s got a statue in NY harbor that he will sell to you for a very reasonable price, as well.)
thomas
@earlofscruggs:
snark award to the earl
Warren Terra
When the Ds wanted to block a few of W’s most extreme nominees to lifetime judgeships the Rs ginned up a Constitutional Crisis, but it’s different when this R blocks everyone? Reid is a joke.
John S.
If it’s any consolation, it is almost certain that the good people of Nevada will rid us of the most inept Majority leader in modern history come November. Which is great news, because when it comes to the Senate, lesssos more.
Let’s just hope Chuck Schumer can hold on to become Majority Leader if Larry Kudlow runs as a
RepublicanCorporate Whore whose campaign is paid for by Wall Street.arguingwithsignposts
Is there a reason why Shumer is always mentioned for majority leader and not Durbin, who is, I believe, 2nd on the list?
geg6
@Face:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_hold
Reid could simply refuse to cooperate by insisting on a cloture vote. Yes, it’s time consuming and perhaps unproductive in the short run, but it sure would show the country who is trying to do stuff and who isn’t.
The operative sentence in that Wiki entry is this:
He caves every time. Every time.
demo woman
Write letters and call news stations to ask why a Senator can hold up nominations because he wants 40 billion for his state. Might not help, but it sure feels good.
jeffreyw
As bad as filibusters and holds can be for the progression of legislative business it can be much worse. Reid knows this, and any attempt to crack down on the foot dragging senators will mean that any progress at all will stop. It is in the interest of the majority to make even little progress rather than none. The thing is that Reid is reaping ever diminishing returns for his forbearance. There must be a reckoning, and Shelby’s overreach may well be the tipping point.
danimal
The underpants gnome theory of Democratic politics:
1) Republican pulls outrageous stunt.
2) ????
3) Blame Harry Reid.
Jeez people, can’t we be outraged by this blatant act of extortion for a day or two? This is a golden gift of political hubris by the opposition and all anyone wants to do is bitch about Harry Reid. Try bitching about Shelby a little, he’s earned it, kthxbai.
Ailuridae
@arguingwithsignposts:
I think the Democrats fear the narrative that all the power of the federal government would be consolidated in Chicago. Its a stupid narrative but given how easily the stupid narrative about deficits became conventional wisdom …
HRA
Shelby’s reason for the blanket is here.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/02/05/shelby-tries-to-shut-down-us-senate-to-benefit-foreign-company/
IMO it is disgusting.
Ailuridae
@geg6:
Every time?
http://www.fresnobee.com/559/story/1809029.html?storylink=mirelated
KCinDC
@Egypt Steve, I think Dodd’s problem was that he didn’t have 40 other senators supporting him. A hold is at base a filibuster threat. Shelby can do it only because all the Republicans will support him in his obstruction.
Ailuridae
@KCinDC:
This. The FISA expansion passed with high 60s in votes and thats with about a dozen Senators not voting or abstaining.
danimal
@KCinDC:
Which is why this is such a gift. Every Republican would have to go on record supporting the hold. It’s total political corruption, easily understood, for the whole nation to see. The Dems should force a vote a day on the nominees for as long as they can, and beat the hell out of the Republicans for their obstruction.
scav
Ahh, but when will we see Shelby’s (R-AL) ad touting his credentials as an outsider with proven anti-pork credentials and is there much doubt that the animal depicted will be porcine instead of ovine?
scarpy
As a bunch of folks have pointed out, the answer to DougJ’s question is Yes. What’s more, Reid really doesn’t have much power to stop this sort of thing if the GOP decides to do it.
The thing about filibusters these days isn’t so much that they block legislation, though they can do that. It’s that, if even one senator is willing to be a complete asshole, even a filibuster that 99 senators oppose can in theory stop work on everything else for a week. That’s because when you decide to break a filibuster, you have to file a motion for cloture. Then you have to wait two days for the motion to “ripen” before you can vote on ending the filibuster. THEN, even if you succeed, that just means you now have a 30-hour limit set for remaining debate. And then finally, FINALLY, you can vote on whatever it was that was being blocked.
Usually, as a matter of course senators agree to shorten these waiting periods. But the Senate operates by unanimous consent, so all it takes is one senator to object to that agreement, and then you’re stuck waiting out the clock.
Now figure that you can filibuster almost anything in the senate — a vote on bill, an amendment, even a motion to start talking about an issue. Each filibuster, even if defeated, can take up to a week of the Senate’s time. There are not that many weeks in a year.
It’s harder for one single asshole senator to do that, because if everyone else wants to move on, then that senator would really have to be there the whole time to object to proposals to shorten the waiting periods. But if the senator has the backing of his asshole leadership — if his entire party, say, is composed of inveterate assholes — then he will have plenty of people willing to enforce his objection for him.
(On Dodd, btw — I don’t know why people still complain about this. It is clear that Reid and the Dems didn’t want to fight the telecoms and the NSA, and it is equally clear that if Dodd had wanted to, he could have forced the issue to take much longer. He was grandstanding with no intention of changing policy, and the Dems have no problem with giving away your civil rights. Deal with it, and/or start a revolution.)
ETA — Of course, Obama nd the Dems should bludgeon the GOP for this and yes, make McConnell either defend it or crucify Shelby at every turn. Wish I thought that would happen.
geg6
@Ailuridae:
The exception that proves the rule. If he could have done it once, he could have been doing it every goddam day if he wanted to play hardball. The fact is that Harry Reid wouldn’t know hardball if it hit him in the face.
Ash Can
More information on the earmarks for which Shelby is holding all these nominees hostage can be found here.
Reid’s response has been to call upon Obama to make recess appointments.
Ailuridae
@danimal:
Which is why this is such a gift. Every Republican would have to go on record supporting the hold. It’s total political corruption, easily understood, for the whole nation to see. The Dems should force a vote a day on the nominees for as long as they can, and beat the hell out of the Republicans for their obstruction.
I suspect the mainstream media’s reaction to this will be “Why are the Democrats focusing on political theater when unemployments is 9.7%?” and not, as it should be, “Why the fuck is Richard Shelby again trying to use federal dollars to give a foreign company jobs based in Alabama?”
If this is the tactic the Democrats take they have to message and massage it properly and it has to first be mentioned by the President (and the VP wouldn’t hurt) in a large public forum preferably from the prodding of a questioner.
Ailuridae
@geg6:
Umm, he’s done it more than once. I just showed the most recent time.
I particularly liked during the Strouthers hold when people were suggesting this without realizing the obvious: Reid didn’t have the votes to break the hold as there are 4-6 members of the Democratic caucus who are union-hating assholes.
MattR
@danimal:
@danimal:
And Harry Reid not forcing a vote every day is step 2 above.
geg6
@Ailuridae:
You seem to think I’m only interested in making sure appointments get made. Sure, I’m interested in that. But the politics (and not simply the Village politics of supposed Senate comity, obsession with process, and horse race positioning) are also important. And all America sees is Harry Reid wringing his hands, letting assholes run the process, and Dems whining about their powerlessness while bringing almost nothing to a vote to demonstrate who exactly it is that is holding the nation hostage. Will it create havoc among the Village? Oh my, yes. Will it cause some things to not get done? Well, pray tell, what IS getting done that your typical American can see? This shit is Politics 101. You can’t fight the perception of weakness and paralysis on your part by buying into the tactics of those who want you to look weak and helpless.
MattR
@Ailuridae: I think you are proving geg6’s point. Reid will bring things to a vote only when he knows for certain he can win (has 60 votes). He is not insisting on cloture votes that will not pass, but which will show that the entire Republican caucus is engaged in obstructionism.
burnspbesq
As long as the Republicans in the Senate continue to hold together with the kind of party discipline we normally observe in parliamentary systems, and the Democrats don’t, the Republicans will win everything they choose to contest.
It’s asymmetrical warfare, and the Democrats have no clue how to do counter-insurgency.
John S.
Well, technically it would be Byrd or Inouye, but that isn’t going to happen for obvious reasons. Durbin is Majority Whip, so he would have a good case (and has more seniority than Schumer), but I just don’t see it happening.
It’s all speculation at this point, but I think Schumer has been floated as a favorite for the position.
Bender
If a Senator really brought Congress to a standstill, he’d probably be the odds-on favorite for the Oval Office in 2012.
The 52 voted for Obama because he’s black/young/not Bush, not because they want his crazy, paedophilic, thieving Chicago Mob cronies to push his Marx-lite “spread-the-wealth” policies on America.
Ailuridae
@MattR:
Please see my post in 46. While I think the messaging on this should in some normative way be a slam dunk I think its highly likely that it won’t be covered positively by the mainstream press. Now I think Obama going to recess appointments is an even worse idea and is the kind of thing that can keep the mainstream media aflutter for weeks about the lack of transparency etc.
I would really like to see Reid do this. I think if managed well it could be great politics. But I am pretty sure it’ll be horrible politics if he did it anytime soon and without explicit public backing from the President.
Here’s a google on Shelby and hold:
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNG_enUS334US334&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=shelby+hold
I’m about five and a half hours into listening to MSNBC today with no mention of this. That google search is showing left blogs, and insider Washington writing (politico, the hill etc). Let’s see if, for once, Democratic PR operatives can successfully manage to generate outrage over something that is genuinely outrageous.
Ailuridae
@Bender:
Troll fail. I understand conservatives are generally stupid but “the 52” is really “the 53”. Please troll better in the future, dumbass.
moe99
Reid gavels the Senate into recess along with Pelosi for President’s day and Obama does recess appointments. F*ck the Republicans.
kindness
Senate Majority Leader Reid chose to ignore Senator Dodd’s hold two years ago. What is stopping him from doing the same to the Republican wrecking crew? Sure the Republicans would howl, shred their clothes & pull out their hair (which they do anyhow), but the public would like & respect Reid more. So what’s the problem? (well, other than Reid is a spineless Leader)
J. Michael Neal
@MattR:
Show who? Us? We know that already. The people who don’t know this won’t learn it from Reid forcing a vote. In order for that to happen, a) the mainstream media would have to give it serious coverage; b) these people would have to be watching, rather than ignoring politics; and c) care enough about what they hear to take the time to understand it.
Process will not, and can not, be a winning issue. It just doesn’t resonate. Before people start complaining that the Republicans would (and did) screech about it in similar circumstances, remember that there is no evidence that this particular screeching ever won them any votes. Voters just don’t care.
Notorious P.A.T.
Hard to argue with that.
shortstop
As others have noted, holds aren’t part of Senate rules, and honoring them is only a custom — but if Reid doesn’t have the votes, he doesn’t want to ignore these holds.
I suspect the GOP really, really wants Obama to make 70 recess appointments in one fell swoop. Can you imagine the amount of media-supported Republican screeching about Obama’s “unprecedented power grab and assault on the separation of powers”? Unaccompanied, of course, by any kind of actual coverage of what Shelby did and the pork he’s demanding?
dmsilev
@Bender:
I think your talking-point-o-matic is stuck. Try rebooting it or something.
-dms
Ailuridae
@kindness:
This has already been explained twice in this fucking thread. Reid knew Dodd didn’t have the votes to stop cloture. Reid now knows that the Republicans do have the votes and will vote to block cloture (they did it just this week over an entirely uncontroversial NLRB choice)
Bill Arnold
Perhaps the Democrats (or some enterprising web site) need to put together a “wall of shame”, with pictures of stalled nominees, and their qualifications, and their status, including holds.
Same with filibustered legislation. A big desk full of big stacks of paper printouts of bills (double spaced, single sided, thick paper), which have been blocked via Republican filibuster, with prominent labels, including names in big camera-friendly fonts.
The Republicans/Teabaggers/FNC would counter, but so what?
Chas
I actually just got my hands on the actual hold note that Shelby had hand-delivered to Obama yesterday
VERY EXCLUSIVE
http://bit.ly/cDH6Nn
@chaslicc
MattR
@J. Michael Neal: Show who? How about the voters in Massachusetts? Or Maine? I can’t/won’t really argue with your list of things that need to happen, but if Reid doesn’t force a vote then there is zero chance of any of them ever occurring. And I am not talking about a single vote. I am talking about as many as possible so that every Republican is on the record. Perhaps “process” will not be the winning issue, but maybe hyper partisanship is and/or perhaps points can be made by forcing them to defend voting “no” on one of the nominees (and it may be a different one in different states depending on the constituency)
Remember November
Why didn’t the Dems do this to Bush?
Truly, the pod people have invaded the GOP.
Chad N Freude
A data point from the Mobile Press-Register:
I don’t think the recompetition has been resolved yet (not enough time since the challenge; couldn’t find any news later than Dec 2009).
shortstop
This.
There is no public cost to the GOP for pulling this shit because 90 out of 100 voters don’t know the Republicans are doing this and never will.
Watch, however, how quickly the national freakout occurs when/if Obama makes 70 recess appointments at once.
Sentient Puddle
Not entirely sure some of you realize how much this ties the Senate’s hands. I might be wrong for this particular case, but here’s my understanding of the process: A vote for cloture shuts off unlimited debate, but guarantees a minimum of 30 hours of debate after the cloture vote. This can be bypassed with unanimous consent, but with Shelby being a WATB, we know that’s not happening.
So 30 hours of debate at minimum…for all 70 nominees. You do the math.
And unless you honestly believe Reid can twist Republican arms to force unanimous consent, there’s not a whole lot he can reasonably do about this.
KCinDC
@J. Michael Neal, I think process can’t be a winning issue for Democrats. I’m pretty sure it can be for Republicans, but even if that’s true Democrats overestimate the public reaction to procedural issues like reconciliation or even various drastic maneuvers to circumvent filibusters. Republicans will scream, and the media will amplify their points, but the number of people who pay attention to Congress at that level of detail is minuscule.
danimal
@MattR: Matt, what exactly should Harry Reid have done last night? If all of Obama’s nominees are on hold in a month, you will be proven right. But maybe give the guy 24 frickin hours before shooting him down.
The GOP would wind up the wurlitzer to 11 criticizing the Democrats if the situation was reversed. Instead, we get Democrats blasting Harry Reid instead of Shelby and the obstructionist GOP.
Comrade Scrutinizer
__
Homework assignment: research the Dixiecrats and segregationist Democrats.
@J. Michael Neal:
You’re right, of course, but there’s a vocal bunch who aren’t interested in that, they just want someone to put on a show, beat his/her hairy chest, and make macho sounds at the Republicans. @danimal: is right: the problem is obstructionist Republicans. Reid isn’t the bestest Majority Leader evah, but he’s constrained both by Senate procedures and the fact that the Senate has to been seen to be getting something accomplished. Reid shutting down the Senate for an endless series of cloture votes accomplishes nothing. The outrage needs to focus on the Republicans as obstructionists, not on the Dems as a bunch of pantywaists. Bloviating about how ineffective the Dems are reinforces the idea that Dems are weak. The truth is a lot more complicated, and it starts on the right side of the aisle with Republicans who exploit every little procedural rule to delay or kill legislation. They do that, then we Dems and liberals immediately eat our own. The Repubs get away scot-free yet again.
People who want to move Overfuckington Windows and alter media perceptions and talking points aren’t going to do it by reinforcing existing narratives.
Ailuridae
@shortstop:
As others have noted, holds aren’t part of Senate rules, and honoring them is only a custom—but if Reid doesn’t have the votes, he doesn’t want to ignore these holds.
This is untrue. The Senate, per its rules operates by unanimous consent. Therefore any single Senator objecting to doing anything prevents unanimous consent. So, while the word “hold” or “secret hold” may not appear in Senate rules, any logical reading of the rules establishes the validity of the hold. The hold, like a filibuster can be broken by cloture.
The wiki on this is pretty good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_hold
MattR
@danimal: Given Harry Reid’s record I don’t think it is all too inappropriate to criticize his past repsonses and to preemptively push him to be aggressive. Obviously Shelby is the bigger jerk, but I expect that he will be working against my interests.
Since the Super Bowl is this weekend, here is a stupid sports analogy: It sucks to lose a game when the other team performs well and beats you, but it sucks even worse when you perform poorly and fail to take advantage of the other team’s mistakes.
Ailuridae
@KCinDC:
but even if that’s true Democrats overestimate the public reaction to procedural issues like reconciliation or even various drastic maneuvers to circumvent filibusters. Republicans will scream, and the media will amplify their points, but the number of people who pay attention to Congress at that level of detail is minuscule.
This is true. Passing any legislation possible through reconciliation is not going to lose votes for Democrats. When you have the inevitable discussion on TV with a Democratic and Republican strategist the Democrat can just keep repeating that the bill passed by majority rule and let the Republican explain how it fits into a democracy to require things to pass with 60% of the vote.
The problem is not a whole lot can pass through reconciliation.
shortstop
Thanks, Ailuridae. We’re in agreement although I wasn’t clear — I meant Reid doesn’t have the votes to get to cloture.
TooManyJens
I just called Senator Shelby’s office, and was told by the staffer who answered the phone that Shelby is putting holds on the nominations because he is dissatisfied with the information he’s gotten about the nominees and is worried about national security.
“What would satisfy him?” I asked.
“He has informed Barack Obama that he wants more transparency and more information about the nominees.”
“Yes, but specifically, what does he want to know?”
“Like I said, he wants it to be more clear.”
“But what does that mean?”
“Just what I said, ma’am, have a nice day.” ::click::
TooManyJens
@Chas: FTW!
SteveinSC
@geg6: I am totally with you on this. Now this from Shelby. Remember all the “up or down” vote from these hypocrites? We warned about the train wreck about to happen in Massachusetts and now we can see another, far worse, down the track in November. Reid is on a suicidal course and leading the rest of the Dems over a cliff with him. You have to force the Republicans to filibuster. We’re not getting anything but window dressing through now, so why not have at the assholes? Make them filibuster. The news will have to carry it and Mika Brzezinski and Politico can wring their hands all they want, but everyone will see the obstructors for what they are. Remember Gingrich’s shut down of the government? He ended up out of a job. A good dose of sunlight on these political terrorists will do a lot of disinfecting. Reid knows all the parliamentary maneuvers, so goddam it use them or get the fuck out of the way.
cat48
This was in the Mobile Register and most in “comments section” seem to think it is a good idea to stop anything that Obama wants to do. That would be quite typical for a lot of Red staters thought process. Not all, but most.
KCinDC
@Ailuridae, yes, reconciliation has very limited uses. But it can and should be used to pass certain fixes to the Senate’s health care reform bill. That’s really what I was referring to. Republican screaming about how tyrannical it is to pass things with a majority vote will get further than it should in our current Republican-wired media environment, but ultimately if the bill passed is good the public won’t care how it was passed (those few who are even aware of reconciliation). And Democrats can keep pointing out that Bush’s tax cuts were passed the same way.
MattR
@TooManyJens: I am surprised the answer to “Yes, but specifically, what does he want to know?” was not “Whatever it is they haven’t told us”
TooManyJens
@MattR: I know! Sometimes I think the wingnuts won’t believe that Obama has been straight with them until he tells them all about the sekrit plan for the Islamososhalist takeover.
KCinDC
@cat48, fortunately newspaper site commenters are not representative of the public as a whole, and Alabama is not the whole country.
mcd410x
Obstruction is a winning strategy for those in the minority. People want things like …jobs. Not procedural bullshit.
Ailuridae
@KCinDC:
yes, reconciliation has very limited uses. But it can and should be used to pass certain fixes to the Senate’s health care reform bill. That’s really what I was referring to. Republican screaming about how tyrannical it is to pass things with a majority vote will get further than it should in our current Republican-wired media environment, but ultimately if the bill passed is good the public won’t care how it was passed (those few who are even aware of reconciliation). And Democrats can keep pointing out that Bush’s tax cuts were passed the same way.
Yep passing the changes that can be passed through reconciliation won’t hurt the Democrats at all. Additionally passing the tax increase on the wealthiest Americans (versus letting the Bush tax cuts just expire) is also a winner. Having the typical bobble heads from the Republican strategy wing explain how its wrong to pass legislation with majority vote certainly cannot hurt the Democrats.
Comrade Dread
Yes.
Because Congressional Democrats are pussies.
I think it might be wise for you to study alchemy (maybe voodoo) and see about creating Zombie LBJ to teach them about hardball politics.
Colin Laney
This is the same Richard Shelby who siphoned off Katrina reconstruction money to build luxury condominiums in his hometown, which experienced no damage worth mentioning from the storm.
Ailuridae
Maybe the White House will actually manage this well and start the pushback. Granted this is off the WH site itself but it explains the situation well.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/02/03/needless-delays-and-filibusters-run-amok-a-case-study
Here’s to hoping that its something that gets a consistent push from the Pres and VP over the next couple of weeks.
Brien Jackson
They can’t block the budget. Other than that, no there’s nothing they can’t slow down.
KCinDC
@Ailuridae, it’s not “passing a tax increase”. It’s allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire, exactly as they were written — something that happens automatically if Congress does nothing. What they’re talking about doing is passing a tax cut for middle-class folks by preventing the expiration for them.
Brien Jackson
In case no one else beat me to it…shut up.
twiffer
@Egypt Steve: fuck that. make ’em park in rockville.
Brien Jackson
Nevermind, I see the whole first third of the thread or so devolved into the generic “it’s all Reid’s fault” nonsense. I guess bothering to look up the actual procedural rules and consequences is just too much trouble. Much easier to go with the “it’s all Reid’s fault” stand by.
Brien Jackson
@Egypt Steve:
Yes, but when you say “blew him off” you mean “filed for cloture.” Which is fine for high priority votes, but if you’re filing for cloture on every single little thing, you wind up grinding the entire body to a stand still, and you can’t do anything else. Which is why holds are effective on obscure things. They don’t really work so well on the big-ticket items, because those are worth filing for cloture on.
Ailuridae
@KCinDC:
You misunderstood me. I want the Democrats to explicitly pass a tax increase on upper income voters now using reconciliation rather than letting the Bush tax cuts expire. That’s a political winner for them and also necessary policy. Then I want them to separately address the other tax brackets in a bill that will maintain the Bush tax rates and will be subject to the 60 vote requirement.
Tim in SF
Here’s your answer, Doug, from Krugman:
—
There’s a precedent for all this. In effect, we’ve now become 17th-century Poland: “… with the rise of power held by Polish magnates, the unanimity principle was reinforced with the institution of the nobility’s right of liberum veto (Latin for “I freely forbid”). If the envoys were unable to reach a unanimous decision within six weeks (the time limit of a single session), deliberations were declared null and void. From the mid-17th century onward, any objection to a Sejm resolution — by either an envoy or a senator — automatically caused the rejection of other, previously approved resolutions. This was because all resolutions passed by a given session of the Sejm formed a whole resolution, and, as such, was published as the annual constitution of the Sejm, e.g., Anno Domini 1667. In the 16th century, no single person or small group dared to hold up proceedings, but, from the second half of the 17th century, the liberum veto was used to virtually paralyze the Sejm, and brought the Commonwealth to the brink of collapse.”
—
More
shortstop
And that’s assuming Reid even has the votes for cloture.
Sentient Puddle
And since I stumbled upon it thanks to Ezra Klein, here’s David Waldman’s writeup of what a hold is, how it works, etc. Also includes discussion of why Dodd’s hold was “blown off.” It’s helpful to read, because:
And if you whine about how Dodd’s hold was overridden and Shelby’s wont, you clearly like newspapers better.
TooManyJens
Aaand, now Shelby’s saying that it’s all about
how much bigger his dick is than Obama’sconcerns about Teh Terrorists:Shelby’s Office Confirms Holds, Lashes Out At Obama
I just called ’em again to say that the Senator should be ashamed of himself for suggesting that the President is “coddling terrorists”. I recommend it highly; it was therapeutic.
fordpowers
what ever happened to everyone deserving an “up or down vote?”
suckers.
Notorious P.A.T.
Don’t let the door hit ya, Harry. Why it’s good for Democrats to let one of their most conservative members be Majority leader is beyond me.
CalD
Could a strong-willed House Majority Leader shut down the government and impeach a president over sexual dalliance that wouldn’t rate as soft porn? Would they?
Maybe senate Democrats should just stage a sit-in… I’m actually half serious.
John S.
Well that and the fact that if the Republicans had invented a Manchurian Majority Leader who embodied all their talking points of seeming weak, ineffectual, out-of-touch, etc. I don’t think they could have gotten better results than Harry Reid.
I know better than to blame him for everything that goes down in the Senate, but for the things for which he is directly responsible and has control over, the guy really does suck.
horatius
Stop blaming the fucking media and Harry Fucking Reid. All Obama has to do is say that he’s waited a year to fill urgent positions and he can’t wait anymore. So fuck you Dick Shelby. You can go fuck yourself, and I’ll make sure that Alabama doesn’t get a single federal dollar till 2016. But then Rahm Emmanuel will probably stop him from doing that.
Why can’t Obama do what he did to get Bernanke nominated for all his other positions?
BombIranForChrist
Prediction: Democrats will whine a little and then do absolutely nothing.
batgirl
On a google news search for this story here are the first two headlines:
Guess which one is from WaPo? (The other is actually from CBS News)
We are fucked. There are days that I think every real Democrat should walk away from government, hand complete control over to the Republicans and give the people what they think they want. When they begin to cry, there will be no Democrat in sight for the GOP to blame. Fuck it all.