Another day, two more Rahm stories.
I don’t think I have ever seen such an infatuation with a President’s Chief of Staff, ever. It really is insane.
Truly Bizarre
This post is in: Show Me On the Doll Where Rahm Touched You
Truly Bizarre
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[…] Update: Moar about Rahm Emanuel, 2011 Nobel Awesome Prize Winner. […]
Tom
Uh…Karl Rove? You don’t think there was an equal if not greater fascination with him?
Dork
Trying to burnish your anti anti-Semitic creds, eh?
Ash
@Dork: Ehrm…..to whom are you referring?
taylormattd
They are obsessed. I guess I didn’t really like him as a Congressperson, but the focus on him is just psycho to me.
IMO, most of the people attacking him constantly are the FDL puma crowd, as well as former Ed-bots – all people who hated Obama during the primary. They’ve found a convienent way to attack Obama indirectly.
Drive By Wisdom
You seem to not understand politics much. These stories originate from factions within the White House itself.
moe99
Carter’s chief of staff, Hamilton Jordan (pronounced “Jerdan”)was the subject of lots of articles in his day. Very similar to this, but more in a “how can someone from out in the sticks have this job?” kind of way. I seem to recall he and Jody Powell graced the cover of Newsweek or Time.
geg6
Sounds to me like someone getting his message out there because there may just be someone else getting too much of the preznit’s ear on what his priorities should/must be.
Not that I would presume to insinuate that Rahm would be out there trying to get his narrative into the press so as to ratfuck a rival or anything.
But it would be irresponsible not to speculate.
John Cole
@Tom: Not Chief of Staff.
taylormattd
@Ash: Maybe Dork was looking in the mirror when he wrote that?
taylormattd
@Drive By Wisdom: Just because Jane Hamsher says these stories originate from the White House doesn’t mean they actually do.
Mnemosyne
@Tom:
Karl Rove was never Bush’s Chief of Staff — Andrew Card and Joshua Bolten were Bush’s Chiefs of Staff. Rove’s title was Senior Adviser and Deputy Chief of Staff.
Napoleon
@geg6:
Bingo
jg
it’s because he is perceived to be THE power center of the obama white house (outside of barack himself). sort of like how tom delay was the driving force of the republican congress even though he wasn’t speaker. He also is pretty much antithetical to the way obama ran his campaign. He was never known for beating up republicans, he was only known for crushing liberals. so, when obama hires a guy who is fixated with screwing liberals, it’s obviously a flashpoint for liberals. i also think that was all on purpose, to look bipartisan but it’s really backfired with the base.
but the hagiography articles really are amazing for how his boss is being portrayed.
Rhoda
I think it’s fascinating.
The last time we saw a dust up in the inner circle that wasn’t leaked was the Greg Craig affair and that was pretty obviously Rahm pushing the dude out. Now, we’ve got Rahm talking about how he planned to leave after two years and Milbank and the WashPo putting out the story that all the bad shit that’s gone down is because of Axe, Gibbs, and Jarrett. Oh, and the President is a black Jimmy Carter.
So, something’s going down.
Chyron HR
Anything President Palin tweets about is the most important thing in America, ergo Rahm is the most important man in America until she gets distracted by something else.
J.W. Hamner
He really does seem to be a lightening rod… it’s either “It’s all Rahm’s fault” or “If we only listed to Rahm things would be awesome.”
I miss the days of the campaign where they were disciplined enough that these kind of catty infighting articles didn’t come out… but I suppose that’s just not possible in the White House.
Fergus Wooster
What happened to “no drama”?
Assuming some of the sources are in the White House (a safe bet), someone has some internal policing to do.
Eric U.
the crazy thing about saying that the Prez would be in better shape if he listened to Rahm is that to all appearances, he’s in trouble because he listened to Rahm.
And this needs to have the “black Jimmy Carter” tag, one of the stories specifically mentions that is one of Rahm’s achievements.
jeffreyw
I been tellin ya, it’s the moon.
Kryptik
I’m not as reflexively anti-Rahm as some folks…but damn, you’d think from some of the defenders that all our problems would be fixed if Rahm were president instead.
Then again, look at some of the defenders. Dickwhisperer and the ‘even the liberal’ New Republic.
Shalimar
You do get that Rahm and Terry McAuliffe are basically viewed by many Dems as the embodiment of the sellout of Democratic principles for bigger campaign contributions from corporatist, big money interests, right? That is where most of the hatred started, during the Clinton years back when you were a Republican. Rahm is seen by many (including me) as a Republicanizing influence, the valuing of winning and power above the achievement of any positive objectives with that power.
And given your statements in the past, you don’t seem to disagree with any of that, so I don’t really understand your contempt for Dems who find Rahm repulsive. Would getting rid of Emanuel solve anything? No, but he’s still a scumbag who deserves to be stripped of all power.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Yeah, Dana Milbank is the go-to guy for Rahm and George W. is a fucking genius.
IMO this is a hatchet job by Milbank. I read a diary over at Kos that was on the Wreck list and the idjit that wrote it said that if Rahm was not the source of these stories then he should be confronting Milbank about it. Sure, that will convince the Rahm haters!
Fucking nitwits.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
At least Rahm didn’t kill Vince Foster???
DZ
@Shalimar:
Thank you for that. Indeed, FTW
The Grand Panjandrum
Palin thinks Rahm is a retard.
Ash
@Fergus Wooster:
Running a country involves more people (with more personal agendas) than a campaign.
Napoleon
BTW, love the tag.
John Cole
@jg: I’d hardly call the Froomkin piece I linked a “hagiography.”
John Cole
Did you all even read the links? One of these pieces is definitively not a “defense” of Rahm.
Fergus Wooster
@Ash:
Understood and noted. Still, I’m having flashbacks to all the factional leaking in the Clinton White House.
I’m just hoping for some more disciplined message control this time.
cat48
I want to give credit to bloggers. According to them, it all started when Rahm said it was f’n retarded to run ads against Blue Dogs.
Hamsher:
“I’ve helped launch a growing “surge of concern” about Rahm Emanuel and others who may be great patriots and loyal to President Obama who are badly undermining him and the success of his presidency”.
Kryptik
@John Cole:
I read Froomkin’s piece (which was definitely not a defense of Rahm), but what also jumped out at me in his piece are the ones he linked to that defended Rahm (the aforementioned Dickwhisperer).
I’m still very ambivalent toward Rahm as a whole, even if I’m admittedly leaning more toward the fiery lefty side. Just that Milbank’s piece that Froomkin linked to, and the TNR piece, one gets the sense that they’d be a lot happier if Rahm himself were the prez.
Xantar
I get the hatred of Rahm. What I don’t get is the continued insistence by many that Rahm is making political decisions for the White House. If you were paying any attention at all during 2008 or if you have read any reasonably sourced accounts of the time, the one thing that always comes through is that Obama makes up his own damn mind. Rahm works for Obama. Whether you think he is effective in the role or not, he is not an “influence” on Obama any more than any other advisor (and I’ll bet that he has a whole lot less clout than the inner circle who were actually working with Obama during the 2008 campaign).
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
OT, but costing hundreds of lives. One wonders if Pat Robertson or a Family representative (or perhaps Rick Warren?) will be along to explain to us all how this is an expression of Divine support for their decision to get their kill-the-gays legislation on ?
JGabriel
J.W. Hamner:
From “Show me on the doll where Rahm touched you” to “Ooh, he’s such a doll.”
.
jg
@ John Cole — No, i didn’t mean that about the froomkin article! i was talking about the wapo’s two articles. and now tnr’s article, too.
Joseph Nobles
Someone is giving both Rahm Emanuel a clear path to leave the administration and the administration a clear reason to send him on his way. It’s not safe to be a rat these days…
lol
Rahm Emmanuel drank the last cup of coffee in the pot and didn’t make more.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
I think Desiree Rogers was framed by Rahm in a plot to control White House fun.
geg6
@John Cole:
I didn’t read what you linked to, but if they aren’t one of the four articles I’ve read in the last few days about this very same subject, then I have to guess they say pretty much the same. Best as I can tell, this pissing match all started with Rahm, running his big mouth about how awesome he is and how the preznit listens to the other idjuts in the WH too much instead of taking awesome Rahm’s awesome advice. Which was something about how health care reform and restoring the rule of law were distractions from the really important things like getting congress critters re-elected and such. And then came a spate of articles from those anonymous people who felt dissed by Rahm’s giant spewing pie hole and hit back.
This is an internal struggle going public. Not a pretty thing, but not in the least bit puzzling considering Rahm is involved.
kommrade reproductive vigor
He’s cute and he never returns their calls, the bastard!
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Let’s primary his corporate lackey ass!!
AkaDad
@Dork:
You know who else burnished their anti anti-Semitic creds?
cat48
@geg6:
Ezra Klein seems to think that there is friction because Obama listens to his policy people more than anyone:
kay
He’s a stand-in for a familiar fight.
Was the agenda too ambitious or not ambitious enough?
This is a discussion that doesn’t play along neat ideological lines, either, despite best efforts of liberals and conservatives to portray it that way. There were and are a lot of liberal Democrats who thought the financial crisis and job loss trumped any larger agenda, on health care and energy. They wanted “jobs, jobs, jobs”. Guess what? That probably means shelving health care.
The decision was made to pursue the three-pronged legislative agenda despite the economy. The reason they did that is they appear to really believe that all these things are interconnected. For example, I don’t think there’s any question that 30 million new insured are going to lead to staffing up in health care. Jobs, jobs, jobs. It’s not called a “jobs bill” it’s called the “health care bill” but my assumption was liberals wouldn’t need a road map to figure out….it’s a jobs bill. Apparently I gave them too much credit.
You can object to that cohesive idea, or object to how it was carried out, but I was watching and listening, and that’s what happened.
And it was by no means all Rahm Emanual.
PeakVT
What I don’t get is the continued insistence by many that Rahm is making political decisions for the White House.
A lot of it is people trying not to discover that Obama is much more moderate than they thought he was.
Ted the Slacker
I don’t see it that Froomkin is doing a Rahm “story”, it’s more an opinion piece on the bizarre the Rahm ball-cupping epidemic, which is, as you say, insane.
Kryptik
@kay:
I don’t pretend that Rahm has anywhere near the power attributed to him. What I do see him as is a Devil’s Advocate. He’s the voice of the ‘Moderates’ in the party, sitting at Obama’s side. He’s more symptom than cause, IMO, and while Obama obviously has gone against his advice quite often, the rest of the Congress seems to sympathize more with Rahm, because they’re of the same cloth.
It’s that same sympathy that brings out folks like Milbank who seem to wonder why Rahm isn’t really the one in charge.
kay
@PeakVT:
I don’t know about that. What they set out to do is this: reform or change three huge sectors of the economy, health care, energy and finance. They set out to do that in a year.
I knew when it was announced it was hugely ambitious, and hugely risky. It gave me pause, but I thought “good for him for trying, they’ll slaughter him if he fails, but he’ll win big if he doesn’t”.
Apparently, I was alone in that. Everyone else was thinking it was milquetoast. It’s not. It’s the whole freaking economy, basically.
AxelFoley
Show Me On the Doll Where Rahm Touched You, indeed.
kay
@Kryptik:
I think he counts votes. I don’t think he ever pretended to be an ideological leader. I think you’re mistaking his lack of ideology for an ideology. He wanted seats in the House. He cared not a rat’s ass what they did when they got there.
I think if Pelosi told him she had 216 for single payer, he’d move on to his next calendered event.
There’s an alternate story on Craig, too, that I think deserves a look. Craig couldn’t get nominees past the Senate, and that was part of his job. My take on Rahm Emanual is he wanted Craig gone because he was counting confirmed nominees, and coming up short. I think that speculation is perhaps validated by the replacement they hired, who is politically savvy and connected. They want the nominees confirmed.
Dork
@AkaDad: No I dont
Bill E Pilgrim
Why is Froomkin’s piece “bizarre”?
Two pieces in a week or so in the Washington Post both buffed and shined so bright you can barely see titled basically “Why poor Rahm Emanuel is the only one in the White House who can save this administration…” good grief.
Whatever you think about Rahm or about those criticizing him, one DC newspaper making this huge PR effort in his favor is definitely noteworthy.
If Froomkin as an ex WAPO writer didn’t take note of that I’d think it was bizarre.
sukabi
I think this is an indication that Rahm’s days are numbered and it’s his attempt to turn it around… a sort of “Look, you can’t fire me, I’m invaluable to your Presidency” kind of thing… and the other side of all these self-promotion stories is a backhanded “the media’s on MY side, what do you think’s gonna happen if you fire me?” threat.
kay
@kay:
I object to this blinders-on approach.
We’ve all sort of decided it was the detention issue and RAHM EMANUEL that led to Craig’s dismissal. Okay, but since we all also agree that none of the judicial nominees were moving, could that have been part of it?
Because that’s what happened. Craig couldn’t move any nominees. We know that.
Focusing on Rahm Emanual’s role is ignoring half the story, to make it fit a narrative. That bothers me.
“The White House was also dissatisfied with Craig’s handling of political appointments, believing that Craig should have spent more time working with the Justice Department and with Congress to force through some of the President’s most eagerly-awaited principals, like Dawn Johnsen, whose nomination to be head of the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel still languishes. The issue of nominations is especially sensitive for the president, a constitutional law lecturer in his former life.
As a threshold matter, let me agree that Bob Bauer will be much more successful at ramming through nominations, which if we’re going to reclaim the judicial system from the mess that the Federalist Society and Alberto Gonzales’ DOJ made of it, is critically important. Bauer’s a fierce partisan unafraid to call out Republicans on their partisan grand-standing. I look forward to his role in nominations.”
Kryptik
@kay:
It may not be ideologically driven, but it still tends to have the resulting conclusion of ‘coddle the waffly moderates, and screw over the solid base’. Which hasn’t worked so far because the waffly moderates only give cover to the Republicans to move the goalposts even further right, prompting even more shifting by those ‘principled centrists’.
It’s bad politics IMO, because it’s focusing all on numbers without truly trying to understand where the numbers are coming from.
kay
@Kryptik:
I think there is a role for the person who focuses on counting votes. Look, I could care less if he goes tomorrow. I’m just having a little trouble putting together The Rahm Emanual Story in any way that makes sense.
Two weeks ago, it was widely reported (probably leaked by hapless Senate Democrats) that “Rahm doesn’t understand the Senate”, so that’s why they can’t get off their ass and do anything. A lack of “understanding”, whatever the hell that means.
Presumably because he understands the House. Okay. He’s the House guy. If that’s the measure, his “understanding” of the House, he’s a big success, because Pelosi has succeeded in moving every piece of legislation she was handed. We don’t have a problem with the House.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@kay:
This.
Another thing for the Rahm haters to chew on: from my seat Obama’s biggest mistake thus far has been the econ/finance team he put together, which Volker aside (who has mostly been used as a prop up until very recently) have reeked of what William Buiter termed “cognitive regulatory capture”. That is a more subtle thing than saying they are evil and in the pay of Wall Street. It’s more like they don’t have the right mental furniture to deal with the banking system crisis. They are like the WW I generals who couldn’t figure out how to overcome the deadlock in the trenches.
And from what I can tell Obama screwed that one up on his own, long before Rahm was a fixture in the WH.
cat48
@kay:
I agree with your theories. If Obama had gotten Daschle thru, he would have worked the Senate because he knows all the quirks. If Craig was responsible for nominees, he did fail. Bauer was the Obama campaign atty. He sparred with Clinton attys. more than once during the primary. He is partisan. He may have better luck. I think he’s married to Anita Dunn.
Jay B.
@PeakVT:
Jesus Christ. In the examples put forward in both the ball-washing pro-Rahm pieces AND Froomkin’s bracing (and, IMO, correct) rebuttal — Obama initially listened to the people who were advocating for what many of us thought were the right things to do: Ambitious health care reform, re-establishment of the rule of law, close Gitmo, etc. And in each case, Obama caved or “moderated” his stance and turned to what all parties agree was Emmanuel’s position to begin with. Something that was much more limited (“achievable”) and politically motivated.
It has literally nothing to do with Obama’s moderate inclinations. It has to do with having an ambitious progressive agenda then having the first hurdle come from people inside your own fucking administration.
Rahm says limited scope was the right way. WaPo ballwashers agree. Others, and even initially Obama himself, thought otherwise. And whether from “pragmatism” or successful infighting, Obama undercut his own message and caved on what he agreed were crucial issues.
kay
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
I see a local judge frequently who I really like a lot, and he and I discuss high-brow policy, although I’m always trying to dumb it down. I know he’s smart and although he’s a conservative, he’s the good kind.
I asked him to tell me honestly why he was afraid of Obama, because he is afraid of Obama, and that’s not like him. I know he doesn’t buy the death panels bullshit, and he seems to like Obama, as an individual.
He said “because he’s a Democrat and he’s changing three large sectors of the economy, and that’s too much change for me.”
Three huge sectors of the economy is true. Yup. No disputing that.
Mnemosyne
@kay:
This is a good point — every point of Congress FAIL so far has been in the Senate, not the House. Everything has passed the House.
The mistake may have been the administration treating Emanuel as the Congress Guy, not just the House Guy. Given the rivalry between the two houses of Congress, it’s not surprising that US Senators would decide they didn’t have to listen to some little pischer from the House telling them how to vote.
kay
@cat48:
Ultimately, I think Obama can pick his lawyer. I’ll be happy if they can get someone confirmed with the new hard-ball political lawyer, whatever, but I think everyone gets to pick their lawyer.
kay
@Mnemosyne:
It’s all tea leaf reading, but isn’t that “understand” hysterical?
The big phonies in the Senate objected to the profane ballerina telling them to do something useful, and make a decision.
They were offended. Again.
Corner Stone
@PeakVT:
IMO, a lot of it is people doing their damndest to find some other point of contest so they don’t have to look *right at the real issue* , which is that Obama is the boss.
kay
@Mnemosyne:
I was amused when Rangel said he wasn’t stepping aside, after the meeting with Pelosi.
I don’t think she liked that.
I want her to run the world. Properly.
Mnemosyne
@kay:
It drives me nuts whenever people link Pelosi and Reid as being similarly incompetent, because Pelosi is supremely competent. She knows how to get the House members to do what she wants.
If this thing does end up getting pulled out of the fire and passes, it will be 90 percent Pelosi’s doing and no one else’s (though everyone else is going to try and take the credit for it).
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@kay:
My response to that would be that those sectors of the economy are changing on their own, in response to events and forces far larger than anything the Dems can do and long predating Obama. What Obama is doing is trying to deflect those changes in a direction which benefits most Americans at an individual level and also reinforces the stability and power of the US as a whole. He is our Gorbachev. If he truly fails (i.e. something more dramatic than just not meeting everybody’s inflated expectations) then the US will be finished as a dominant geopolitical and economic power within a generation. Not in a downfall of the Soviet Union way, but in a decline of Victorian Britain to 2nd rank status by the time of the Suez crisis in the 1950s sort of way.
And that thinking the best thing we can do is to try to shut out those changes as he wants to, as if we can prevent them by putting somebody in charge who will cry “no, no, no”, is the surest way to make certain that they happen in the worst possible manner. That is the Ming dynasty way of doing things. In America we are supposed to look to the future, not recoil from it in fear. When did we change as country, and why?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Mnemosyne:
Fixt.
It may be a mere coincidence since the sample size is small, but it seems to me that Presidents who went directly from the Senate to the WH (c.f. JFK) have had a hard time with that chamber in particular.
kay
@Mnemosyne:
I wonder why she doesn’t get more credit from Democrats. I knew she’d get a load of crap from Republicans, but Democrats don’t appreciate her either.
I honestly think it’s because everyone has a movie-version of “tough pol” in their heads, ( LBJ is the boring, obvious example, but media loved Tom Delay) and she doesn’t fit that narrative.
That and “San Francisco” which media is obligated to reject out of hand and deny any legitimacy because it’s not in America. Unlike, say “Sugar Land”, which is so representative of America, if you live in a movie version of America.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
The Democratic party and especially it’s reps on the internet do not deserve having Obama as their president. It starts with calling themselves progressives when they are really just ordinary ideological liberal democrats that want what they want and don’t spend a nanosecond on realistic strategy to get it. So they attack like cowards Obama’s employees and not him directly with nit picky conspiracy theories in the WH inner circle. And this includes those WATB’s in the MSM who nag nag nag for a scoop and just make it up when they can’t find at least one anonymous source to quote..
Obama should do what I just did and go down to the local County Court Clerks office and re-register as an independent. It was liberating to do and I finally got around to it. Though unfortunately for Obama, he still needs the dem party machinery to get re-elected. His tough luck, so he will have to put up with this bullshit from supposed supporters and various and assorted Chicken Little Democrats.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@kay: Have you looked at the Senate lately? How is it Craig’s fault when tools like Ben Nelson were threatening to vote against Obama’s nominees?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@kay: Yes, I can remember a couple of years ago when the crap about her allegedly being told details of Bush’s torture regime and not doing anything about it. It was later debunked thoroughly, but I spent too much time getting flamed on liberal blogs defending her and her work as Speaker. These were allegedly good prog dems calling for her scalp, just like with Rahm now. But since I am no longer a democrat, piss on em.
That felt so good, I will say it again. I am no longer a democrat.
valdivia
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
as usual you are on the same page as me, even if I did not re-register yet.
I also want to second everything Kay said about Pelosi. she fucking rocks.
edited for clarity.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@kay: I think most Democrats do appreciate her. I bet what really pisses off everyone is the Senate, so the House passes stuff and it never gets enacted. But look, she also needs to sit on assholes like Stupak(figuratively). We might get HCR and yet reduce a woman’s right to chose. With a Democratic trifecta?
Jay B.
Awesome. After months and months bitching about Democrats who disagree with the party’s direction, you jump ship — and then give wholly irrelevant advice to the President. Fucking perfect. The party left you, eh? And yet, somehow I don’t think your liberation will prevent you from spouting the stupidest “advice” for those of us with the stones to remain in the Democratic Party despite its manifest flaws.
…they attack like cowards Obama’s employees and not him directly
Holy shit. You really believe this? When people complain about Obama directly you bitch about that too. Total fucking joke.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: So you are saying Obama fufilled all his campaign promises?
kay
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
If I could just say, it’s always been like this. I only tell you that obvious thing because you have mentioned you didn’t sort of check in until 2000. Maybe checked in and then checked back out?
I checked out for a time during the Clinton health care debacle and again for the Monica Lewinsky hysteria, only because I could not listen anymore to Democratic members of Congress joining with the media idiots and creating a whole reality. The finger pointing is almost a requirement. Hillary took the hit last time, not completely undeserved, but not nearly “her fault” to the extent that we all settled on.
Health care is a third rail. It just is. There’s a reason no one could get it done. None of the people who tried were stupid, Bill Clinton was a really talented guy, both substantively and politically, and Obama is too. It’s difficult to do.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@kay: What else is Rangel going to say? Do you think he’s going to admit defeat to a bunch of Southern DINO’s(who made up a large part of the group calling for him to step down)?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
You can judge for yourself whether he has or hasn’t. In my book, relative to first term presidents at this stage, absolutely he has to a relative degree. Not perfect by any means, but trying in a climate of hyperpartisanship at a level not seen in my lifetime.
Jay B.
Also, you were run out of the party because of what, disagreements on liberal blogs? That’s even funnier. What a piece of work. I look forward to more lectures about Obama’s perfectly correct decisions and our disloyalty to him and the Party from someone who cuts and runs after thread board fights.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: You are the joke spoof. And I no longer belong to your fucking party of whiners where folks like you reign supreme in knuckleheaded bliss.
Dr. Morpheus
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
Yeah, he’s had more than enough time to do so. So what if he’s got the Republican party filibustering and voting en bloc to halt any legislative initiative he promotes.
So what if he has a MSM that is wired for Republicans and repeats endlessly Republican lies and ignores Democratic/liberal messages.
Who cares if he’s got traitors in the party, a.k.a. Blue Dogs, that join Republican filibusters in preventing anything useful from happening.
And big deal he’s got traitors like Jane Hamsher and her firebaggers joining up with Grover Fucking Norquest and going on Fox News to be used as a propaganda stooge for the Right.
Yeah, he’s a failed Black Jimmy Carter who’s thrown the people who elected him under the bus.
And if you believe all that then you’re too stupid for words.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: Nothing but strawmen from your concern troll swamp.
kay
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:
From what I’ve read, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think he should give up the chair, which is what he did, incidentally, and only “temporary”.
Pelosi ran on the GOP culture of corruption in 2006. For better or for worse (I think better, as a whole) that’s the box she’s in.
Corner Stone
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I am so damn tired of people trotting that politifact garbage out as some kind of shield.
If I tell you I’m going to check your mail, feed your dog and mow your yard while you are out of town for a month – and I complete 2 of those 3 things regularly – which one do you think you’re actually going to care about when you return home?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@kay:
Good memory. The only period in my life I’ve been a registered democrat was from 2000 to today. So yea, I tried it and checked out, thank the lard.
Dr. Morpheus
@Corner Stone:
Which magical wand did he
fail to usepurposely avoided using that would have accomplished those important issues as opposed to the “trivial” ones he has successfully completed?No, really, what leverage does he have with any of the opposition to his policies & campaign promises that he could have used, but didn’t?
Frankly, you don’t have shit about that.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
That’s because people like you don’t like facts. It gets in the way of your narrative of whining.
eta – in this regard you and your ilk are nothing more than wingnuts from the left.
Corner Stone
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
I like facts just fine. I don’t like it when morans like you twist something that isn’t very persuasive to begin with into being the end all be all of definitive argument settlers.
It’s a nice checklist. It doesn’t do what you purport it to do.
kay
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
I’m not talking you back in, either, so that’s not what the post was about. I’m sure you made a good decision.
Corner Stone
@Dr. Morpheus:
Not responsive to my post.
I don’t expect him to accomplish everything in one year and I never said he would or should.
What I object to is when epically stupid people like Stuck use it as a canvas to shield against all discussion of important issues.
As I said, it’s a nice checklist but it is not the rosetta stone in this debate.
geg6
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Why would he do something as stupid as that? He’s a Dem and not afraid to be proud of it. He’s not a so-called Independent, one of those people who either have no idea what they stand for or are too lazy to take a side. He’s a Dem and won’t run away from it.
This, from a guy who spends 9/10 of his time here dissing people who are actual loyal long-time Dems, through thick and thin. Next time you have the stones to attack one of us, talk to the hand. I have little to no respect for Is. Hell, even GOPers have more gumption.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
LOL
And you being the arbiter of “argument settlers”. It is not an end all to anything but non stop Obama fail wanking from pumas, dead enders, and assorted whiners. If anyone has facts to present, I will always listen. But not to fetid conspiracy theories about Rahm Emmanuel being some kind of Obama Administration Rasputin that is fucking everything up and needs the prog treatment to be cast out.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
“Reign” where? On the Internet? J-O-K-E. Dude, I’ve been treated to your insufferable bullshit on “what’s possible and only this” for Obama and the Democrats for months. I’m still waiting. And so what’s your next step, after things still remain in limbo? Jump ship and blame “unrealistic” liberals for both your retreat AND the failures of the White House and Congress because Internet people complain too much. And “liberals” have a weak grasp of politics? Hilarious.
It’s a perfect parody of self-satisfaction — the Connecticut for Lieberman party, reborn and manifested in a smug Internet blowhard.
OH — And I can’t WAIT for you to bitch about someone being a “Naderite” again.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@geg6: @geg6:
It was a throw away rhetorical question as he can’t or wouldn’t do that. But I bet dollars to donuts the dude spends some time each day wondering why a block of his supporters are bugfuck crazy looking under every fucking rock to find something to complain about, all the while calling themselves loyal dem supporters.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: I am not jumping any ship. I will work for, donate and vote for dems and dems only for the foreseeable future, but can no longer tolerate belonging to any organization of raging dumbasses like yourself. Call it self therapy.
Corner Stone
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
This has nothing to do with me as you will be unable to ever find a post by me that says this.
I have consistently said two things.
1. Rahm’s goal was to shift corporate funding from R’s to D’s who played ball with him.
2. Obama is the boss.
So as usual your patheticalnessosity shines through. Quitter.
former_friend
@Shalimar:
Dude, teh Cole is all about “contempt for Dems” … were you around for the Great Fruit Toss against Spitzer? Cole is an expensive ally who still has winger tendencies, like a stain that fades but doesn’t come out.
Another great routine is how he and DougL keep linking to long-discredited fools like Sullivan and Politico writers and whining about how foolish it all is (as they ignore/complain about actual progressives). It’s kind of like your cat bringing you a mouse head and leaving it on your pillow–every f’ing day … surely the cat doesn’t REALIZE what it’s doing.
Surely.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Bullshit, you cut and ran because people are mean to you on the Internet. It’s a whole lot of WATB from the butch fake “General” who thinks he’s James Carville and Judge Judy wrapped up in one.
Naderite.
Oh man, if it was only this easy to get rid of most chickenshit Democrats. We might have a fighting party again.
kay
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
It’s interesting, because he’s not a “no, no” person, generally. He reads a lot. He’s genuinely open-minded. His wife is this rabid partisan Republican warrior, but he’s not. For example, he once worked up this rather elaborate sort of chart that “showed” that we need Mexican immigrants “on the rolls” to insure Social Security solvency. These are the things he does in his spare time. Make charts.
The hip thing to be if you’re a conservative in this town is rabidly and irrationally anti-Mexican. They wear it like a badge of honor.
I know he would have gone along with financial reform, because he doesn’t have a lot of respect for finance or lenders, but that combined with cap and trade and health care was simply too much change for him. And Obama’s a DEMOCRAT. If someone is going to rewrite the rules, he wants a conservative to do that.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
And you’re not even a halfassed, chickenshit Democrat anymore, WATB. So what the fuck do you care? You took your ball and went home. You don’t get to play anymore.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Just coming home is all. Always was an independent until recent and now back at it. Quitting the democratic party is not really quitting anything but a word. There is no definable significance when fools collide. And that goes double and more malevolent for goopers as well.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.:
Au Contraire. I am an Obot, and not going anywhere but in your shit every day and twice on Sunday. Being a democrat is not required for that.
Quackosaur
@former_friend:
Methinks someone has their Dougs confused…
Corner Stone
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
An “independent” is a Republican who is too ashamed to admit it.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: Be careful, you might hurt yourself puke funneling all that stuck hate. Let it out a little at a time dude. Think long dude.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone: Actually , I belong to the Reformed Druid Party, but they wouldn’t let me list that on the application. I live to haunt wanky pumas like yourself.
Corner Stone
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I find it very funny that for the last year you’ve been crushing on Obama and flying into spittle flecked invective against anyone who dared to ask for more or suggest a different outcome may be possible.
And now all of a sudden it’s just to much for you, you poor dear. Some insipid blogger had the temerity to not agree with you on how awesome your crush was and you go feinting off to the nearest fainting couch to retire – and it just so happens to be exiting the Democratic Party.
And then you lay there cuddling your blankie and spit back at people who’ve decided to fight for what they believe in, no matter what morans like yourself accuse them of, day in and day out.
It’s all too funny for words. As my good friend matoko_chan says: lawls.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
No change in this department deader puma. Your Obama fail wanking will be crushed with simple facts just like before. If not by me, then someone else. There is no sanctuary for internet idiots like Corner Stone, and nowhere to run. This is written.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
And I will add. That I am quite pleased with the political enemies accumulated thusfar on BJ. May their cows all come home.
And I want to thank them for their support of my joining the No Party Affiliation Party.
Nellcote
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Can you vote in primaries in your state?
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Not “here”, you idiot. I fully expect you to continue to regale us with trenchant commentary about how the voters respect PoliFact above their own eyes, but in terms of what’s best for the Party or what should matter you’ve shown your true colors. Run away!
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Nellcote:
Don’t think so. But I was a Yellow Dog Democrat and now a Yellow Dog Independent. And will vote only for democrats since the GOP seems permanently insane. I have voted for goopers in the past before 2000, but don’t foresee that happening again anytime soon.
Jay B.
You literally have no comebacks that Republicans haven’t already perfected, champ. When confronted with their failure, they fall back on “why you hatin’?” every time. And “political enemies” don’t flatter yourself. I think you are a kid playing an adult game. And your chickenshit retreat because of Mean Bloggers pretty much proves the depth of your thinking.
It ain’t all about you, I seem to remember someone bitching when someone else got pissed off that their issue wasn’t being addressed.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: Sounds like it’s time for yer shot spanky.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
@Nellcote:
Don’t think so.
More awesome. A knee-jerk reaction without fully understanding the consequences? Why, sure!
Please lecture me more on politics. I want to subscribe to your newsletter.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.:
Okay. You are a complete whackjob on politics, and likely everything else. Lecture over.
Dr. Morpheus
@Corner Stone:
It is relevant to your post because your post was defending Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle belly-aching about how Obama hasn’t:
.
Stuck links to Politifact to show that what he has accomplished re: his campaign promises and both he and I point out that it’s been little over a year since he was sworn into office.
How in the hell can you imply that he’s somehow failed/reneged on his campaign promises given he’s only been in office for fourteen months? Or that he’s had the most dysfunctional Senate in the history of the nation?
Or, to put it more simply, what relevancy does your criticism have if you take into account, you know, like reality?
Tell me, with something to back up your assertions, what he could have accomplished vis-a-vi “important” campaign promises within the time period he has already served and with the monkey-wreching Republicans/ConservaDems that he’s either ignored or fucked up?
Again, with some credible empirical evidence, not merely, “well he said he was going to do it and he hasn’t so Q.E.D. he’s a liar/sucks”.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.:
I am truly touched by yours and Corner Stones deep concern for my political well being and such. It’s kind of like Larry and Curly worrying that Moe is getting carpal tunnel from braining them so much. The beatings will not stop, however, until morale improves.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
And the defensive, lame “comebacks” keep coming! You took yourself out of the debate over the candidates and the future of the only party you claim you’ll ever vote for — but I’m the irrational whackjob who doesn’t understand how politics works.
I’m deeply impressed by your logic and chops, General!
Of course, you have some fans on these threads for some reason, and they joined you in the “Naderite” stupidity whenever an actual Democrat (and not some whiny unaffiliated voter) had the temerity to disagree with whatever the shortsighted ad hoc “compromise” to the issue was — those were the days, huh?
Payback’s a bitch, so I’ve heard.
PaulW
Does Leo McGarry count?
CoS can be, depending on the President, the Second Most Powerful Man in the White House or The Guy Who Gets Me The Tacos. Rahm is seemingly playing for the former.
The noise over Rahm suggests certain factions within the Beltway aren’t getting the access to Obama they thought they’d get and as such are whining about it, the babies. Just remember, if they’re not complaining about one thing, they’ll complain about another.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: You do realize you are commenting on a blog created by a former republican who has just recently become a democrat. And a blog that has a wide assortment of disaffected commenters from a variety of pol backgrounds and party affiliations. If nothing else, my change back to what I’ve always been has taken you off the Obama Fail meme wanking for the day and onto an individual commenter fail meme wanking. This is good news for Obama!!
Annie
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
LOL…:) Don’t give up yet~
This is getting scary. If this is the type of discourse among people who actually are on the same side most of the time, and all of whom are big Obama supporters, the wingnuts can just sit back and let us destroy each other.
As a lifelong Democrat, and as a child of a father heavily involved in PA Democratic politics while I was growing up, I have to say that I believe that Democrats in Congress have not stood behind their leaders nor taken the Republicans to task enough this past year. They have not controlled the narrative, the press, the message nor helped the administration, especially on health care reform.
If a Sarah Palin can get more air time and be listened to more than Democrats, something is really wrong.
Corner Stone
@Dr. Morpheus: I was not defending anyone. Calvin can handle his own business and I didn’t comment on his/her post. My post was fairly straightforward – the use of Politifact to determine policy outcomes/promises is flawed. And I object to the over-repeated hauling of it out like a talisman.
My example was also pretty clear – different people judge different outcomes differently – so Politifact is not the final word on this debate.
When people cite it as if it speaks for itself in any and all cases I disagree with that.
And just so it’s clear before you haul out another strawman – I’ve never said Obama has failed on his campaign promises and never said he had one year to complete any of them. My post had nothing to do with that.
But continue screaming about magic wands and other items I seem to have never said anything about.
Corner Stone
@PaulW:
Damn. I wish I had that guy.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
They still let me vote and say whatever I want. The fact that I can no longer vote in primaries does not change that. What the fuck is wrong with, you crazy or something, on drugs? Why are you so obsessed with how I’m registered to vote. And implying that an independent cannot participate in political debate on this blog. Fuck you , really, you insane ass.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Annie: Why is everyone saying “Don’t give up” to someone who simply registers as an independent? I don’t get it, unless it relates to the reason I switched back in the first place. Which is a dislike of tribalism. (and I’m not saying this about you, cause your mind is open). I have not been a very good democrat anyways, always questioning the “real base” of the party and giving them shit when they make accusations without solid evidence. So I will still give them the same shit as I did before, though without remorse from the perpetual whining of punching hippies in the dem party, my party but is no longer.
I didn’t intend my first comment to stir this kind of flame war, as it is the same thing I’ve always said or requested. And that is to use facts for arguments, not just passion and feelings. This may be a debate those on the left should have.
kay
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
You realize you’re going to get twice the campaign lit and phone calls because you are now the (mostly) mythical “independent” voter?
Plus, Arizona is a closed primary. That’s where you live, right?
Anyway, I don’t think it’s this earth shattering event, for whatever that’s worth. Just don’t vote for jerks.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
.
You brought it up, you asshole. Liberating! All that shit. I found it, let’s say, ironic after months of your butch posing blasting Democrats who disagreed with some aspect of Obama’s approach, goals or Congress’ ineptness, etc. Making sport of people’s claims to be “through” with the party after some sundry, arbitrary line — you did this quite often and you know it. So, let’s say, it irks me to read more pompous bullshit about your “independence” as if you also haven’t tucked tail and run in the same fucking way.
No, you disingenuous asshole. Say whatever you want. But you’ve been calling out people’s Democratic bona fides, judging them and their concerns unworthy in a pathetic, simpleminded attempt to marginalize them by assertion rather than argument. You, unlike others who got equally passionate, brought up next to nothing of substance save that polifact piece and judged it of the deepest import. The final word. Well, except for a few cliches about ponies, unseriousness and liberals which you always manage to spout.
In short, you’re a joke. I don’t think you’re “insane” or “crazy” or any of the things you attribute to me and other people who disagree with you. You’re just another pompous, inarticulate, asshole in an Internet full of them. It’s just neat finding such a perfect specimen who lacks even the barest semblance of self-awareness.
4jkb4ia
I liked reading them because there was the vaguest possibility that I would have a favorable judgment of Rahm afterwards. Also people are willing to say anonymously that “Obrahma” does not exist, and Bob Casey going on the record that Rahm did not understand the Senate was
classichelpful.General Egali Tarian Stuck
@kay:LOL. Don’t have a landline anymore, haven’t for several years. I use a prepaid cell and nobody has ever gotten that number that I didn’t give it to them. And it’s NM, and I believe it is also closed. NBD to me, as I make no bones about voting straight dem ticket these days anyway. It isn’t a big deal, other than I have never been comfortable belonging to anything, pol parties, or whatever. Not a joiner and just did it in 2000 cause Bush was elected. But he is gone and if some other bloodthirsty wingnut gets back in the WH, I may join the dem party again.
gwangung
Personally, I think this is a reaction to people trying to play the more-progressive-than-thou approach, which is equally simple-minded and equally an attempt to marginalize. It’s the same unwillingness to work together among people who want the same thing, but in different ways. Not that useful if you spend more than a few minutes at it.
But what do I know…I’ve only been at it for 35 years.
geg6
@Jay B.:
Yes. That is why I find this whole “I’m an Independent now! I’m free!” shit hilarious. This is the guy who questioned my bona fides as a Democrat and told me that I do nothing but whine and cry for my missing unicorns. Too fuckin’ much.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
I have called out and will continue to the bona fides of jackasses like you who spout bullshit without facts. And if I do the same, somebody should do the same with me. Has nothing to do with democrats or any political party. People who trade in lies and dishonest memes and cower benieth a cloak of being “the real” dem base, all the while blowing smoke up our asses claiming to be loyal dems just keeping Obama honest. With lies and GOP framing and general douchbaggery that trolls traffic in. Fuck off you fool.
PeakVT
… having the first hurdle come from people inside your own fucking administration.
How can Rahm be a “hurdle” when he serves entirely at the whim of Obama in an position that does not require Senate approval?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@geg6:
LOL, Still full of shit you started Geg6. Whining in post after post after post that Obama and you Obots screwed po little ole me because we reluctantly wanted a bill with no PO to still pass. It went on and on until someone called you on it and you went full ballistic batshit crazy. I questioned your loyalty to Obama because of your fact free allegations and accusations, and could care less what party you belong to.
Corner Stone
DingDingDingDingDingDing!! Jackpot.
geg6
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Here’s where you get it and me all wrong:
I have no loyalty to Obama as an end to itself, unlike you. I have a loyalty to my party and what I believe is best for my country. The great majority of the population still supports the PO. I believe there are now 35 senators who have signed on for the PO in reconciliation. Obama himself has said he has no objections to passing a PO.
You believe it is more important to have some sort of ridiculous loyalty to a particular political figure. I believe it is more important to be true to your fellows in the struggle, the policies and objectives of the Democratic Party and liberalism, and to never abandon principles in favor of a particular politician.
Funny that I’m a loyal and enthusiastic party member and you fashion yourself as some sort of principled lone wolf when it’s obvious principles mean nothing to you and following for the sake of being a good follower means nothing to me. Ironic, you might even say.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone: Use the whole quote dipshit.
This is the kind of dishonest horseshit that comes out of wankers like you and geg, and jay b. You make my case of fact free allegations and accusations.
Jay B.
@Corner Stone:
Oh man. This is endlessly amusing. Poke it again!
EDIT: That said, I do understand the General’s subsequent point. He didn’t mean “loyalty to Obama” the way he’s slavishly loyal to Obama. He meant that he doubted we were ever “loyal” to Obama because he thought our concerns, despite any facts you might have offered that he disagreed with, were “fact free”. Unlike his deep, personal relationship to the truth.
Dr. Morpheus
@Corner Stone:
Stuck said,
Stuck was replying to Calvin’s question and you leaped up and fixated on the first five words, or rather, the link that those five words led to rather taking into account the rest of Stuck’s post.
Nowhere did he claim Politifact is the “final word in this debate”, he states, “relative to first term presidents at this stage, absolutely he has to a relative degree“.
What part of that statement is absolutist? It’s empirically backing up an assertion rather than relying on “it’s true because I say so!”.
The second part of your post,
cannot be interpreted in any other way than you think Obama’s focused on the trivial and ignored the important stuff.
That is why I brought up magic wands and the rest. Whatever you think he’s ignored/fucked up/whatever how can you argue in good faith that his actions are in anyway comparable to “not feeding your dog”? Which is blatantly obviously your point!
For instance, how could he have closed Gitmo and transferred the prisoners to Federal prisons IF EVEN HIS OWN FUCKING PARTY WON’T VOTE TO GIVE HIM FUNDS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS?
This is his failure? How? Really, I’d like to know.
geg6
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
The jokes. They write themselves.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@geg6: You are like reading an open book. Same dishonesty as described in my previous comment.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
And I don’t get you wrong. You are the person who had a complete meltdown over a character in a fiction novel. You are the person, and not the only one, who dumped tons of misinformation about the HCR debate and whining about obots being selfish assholes unicorn worshippers (my description) and admitted that you opposed the senate bill because it might not give you what you wanted personally. And then after weeks of pity partying made a grand declaration you had decided after all that the senate bill would save lives and did a mea culpa now supporting it.
I think you are a nut is all.
Corner Stone
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: And…the entire quote does not mitigate your statement.
There is no “loyalty” to Obama from a Democratic voter. The people who work for him may owe him personal loyalty, but that’s another discussion.
Over the last 18 to 24 months you’ve been telling everyone here exactly what you were about but it’s good to finally just get it out there in as succinct a manner as possible.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@geg6: So you admit your using half quotes to make debate points is a joke. I agree.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Sure it does grasshopper. People who don’t use facts and full statements of those they are attacking is wanking. Whether it is in this thread about me, or in dozens of other threads about Obama. You are an expert at it. Lies are loyal to nothing and are like chaffe in the wind. They are just lies. And that is all they are.
Corner Stone
@Dr. Morpheus: Stuck uses Politifact at every opportunity.
I could link a bunch of these cites but it goes into moderation and they are very easy to find littered throughout B-J.
The example illustrates that if you want to argue a record of campaign promises fulfilled/broken, you should understand that different people weigh different outcomes as more important. To you a record of 80% promises kept may be a sterling win. To others, the 20% not kept may outweigh the rest. The categories themselves aren’t very accurate either. Stuck uses a flawed report for a reason.
This isn’t hard but you’re determined to make it so.
As for the rest, you keep demanding I argue something I have not argued.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone:
You are a funny person CS. You have done nothing but rag on Obama for the past two years since the early Hillbot days, at every opportunity, whether a thread was about Obama or not.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
It is the “fact” part that throws ya, ain’t it?
geg6
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
I have no idea what you are talking about with the novel thing. None at all. Whatever.
As for HCR, I was and still am for the public option. No change there and I’ve been fighting for it all along. And, yes, I still believe the excise tax, as it was originally constituted, was unfair and one of the people getting hit with the unfairness was me. In case you haven’t noticed, there have been significant changes to the excise tax, so I obviously was not the only person who noticed the problems with it nor the only one who would be hurt by it. I’m still against it as a funding mechanism (believing a tax on high income earners a better way to do it), but I can deal with losing a battle or two as long my concerns get some sort of hearing. Which they did. As for my finally deciding to make calls when Tim F started those threads, you’re right. I decided, at that point, that the greater good and all that. I’ve done that on almost every single political issue in my life because nothing is ever the way I want it to be and so I have to watch the process happen, see any changes made, and then decide whether or not I can live with the compromise. This is what is called “being rational.”
What is not rational is choosing a figurehead to latch onto with fanatical enthusiasm, supporting any and every thing this figurehead does regardless of principles, demonizing anyone who disagrees, and never changing your mind or shifting your emphasis to accommodate emerging facts or shifting battlegrounds. This is what is called “being irrational.”
None of it, however, is dishonest.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
You have nothing but steamy conspiracy theories, and in a thread that highlights the polar opposites of wankers in the media reading the WH tea leaves from unnamed sources, you join in the Rahm must be behind it all meme@geg6:
My fanatical enthusiasm is debunking the reams of bullshit coming from all quarters on what’s wrong with Obama. Bring a fact. Shake my Obot world why don’t ya.
Otherwise, you have exactly nothin”
Holden Caulfield
cfaller96
Just FTR, John, I finally sent you that email with the
“mountain of links”few links about Rahm that you requested. Um, yeah, let’s just say the jury’s still out on whether Rahm is doing a good job as CoS or not.geg6
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
LOL! Fucking Holden Caufield you hold against me? Because I hate a book and an author, I suck? Hate to tell you, Stuck, but apparently a lot of other people, even some with literary credentials, suck, too.
I have no conspiracy theories. I simply looked at a situation posed on a blog and made my predictions as to how this situation may have come about. I’m not exactly sticking my head out here, since half the Internet and MSM are making the same prediction. And, really, my criticisms of Rahm here have been quite mild. As I said either in this thread or Tim’s on this subject, I don’t hate Rahm at all. I simply don’t think he’s very good at what he and his sycophants claim he is.
I really don’t understand what you think is so dishonest or conspiratorial about it. I haven’t said anything that hasn’t been said elsewhere about Rahm and his win at all cost (even all your principles) strategy, what I have said has been very moderate, and I really don’t think anyone can argue with the fact that Rahm has political ambitions beyond CoS and, in fact, has made that well known.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Quackosaur:
No shit. I better change my name if DougJ is going to keep dragging it through the mud. ;)
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@geg6:
“Syncophants’. “choosing a figurehead” “latch onto with fanatical enthusiasm”, Please take all of these and shove them up your uninformed whiny ass. And “regardless of principles” is a laffer. You have none, only your self absorbed wonts and desires without nary a clue about politics in this country. And no facts to back up your dissent.
And you wonder why we hippie punch
There is a dem president in power, that unless there is evidence of him fucking up, other than the mind farts of nutroot nation, some of us would like to see that president, whether it was Hillary, or Richardson, or whoever. remain in power and have enough support to get things done. You offer nothing but whining and lies.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@geg6:
Jesus Christ. What a noble picture you paint. You are and have been not loyal to anything but getting your own self taken care of. Period. With occasional outbursts opining for the greater good when the self pity became too much.
Jay B.
And we’ll do this by leaving the party and complaining about people not clapping loud enough.
unless there is evidence of him fucking up
He fucked up on health care (and so did Congress). He fucked up on Gitmo (and so did Congress). He fucked up on civil liberties all on his own. On the first two, he fucked up by either misreading or not understanding the political dynamics, even he tacitly admitted to it by having a useless “summit” months and months after HCR got bogged down. And he didn’t want to fight his own party on the Gitmo stupidity, for decent political, but terrible moral reasons. It’s a fucking abomination that Gitmo is still open. He knows this and even made a great speech why. And yet, there it is, still a festering wound. Did he say anything about how fucking stupid Feingold and the rest of them were? Did he tell Bloomberg to sack up and hold the trial of KSM in Manhattan where it belongs? Nope. Dropped two hot potatoes, not because they were right and he was wrong, but because it was easier.
This isn’t “conspiracy” or “insanity”, it’s plainly obvious.
In hindsight, and things that were argued at the time, he also fucked up by not asking for a larger stimulus. More would have been better! But yes, Congress sucks too. And he’s also fucking up, in real time, by continuing to embrace this bipartisan schtick. He’s much better when he draws contrasts between the two parties, not blurs them. Until you prove to me people care more about bipartisanship than outcomes, this is a fact.
Most of these things are fixable errors though. But, like any solution, you first must admit there’s a problem. The irony is, of course, the Administration has been coming around on this — you, on the other hand, have not.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: You are a OCD numbnut. Talk to your fellow true democrats in this thread. Or just jump. I don’t care.
Though with every comment, I get happier not being associated with asshats like you and your buds on this thread.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.:
And one last nugget for wankers like you geg and CS. I never questioned democratic bonefides, I questioned the veracity of your claims and accusations, and I was hardly the only one. I could care less who belongs to what fucking party.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Laughable bullshit. I rarely accuse people of lying — which is something you do in nearly every post — but you are plainly lying here. After you’ve been hoisted on your own petard, you’re now trying to weasel out of months and months of browbeating insufficiently dedicated Democrats (whom you called “Naderites” or “PUMAs” or liars, or spoofs, or trolls, or unicorn-seekers, or WATB, ad nauseum) — as if an actual Democrat could have no possible reason to complain — going so far as to accuse aimai of all people for not being a stout enough Democrat (and lying in the process), you do it constantly. It’s literally preposterous to make that claim.
It’s no conspiracy that geg6, Corner Stone and I had the exactly same response to your moronic “liberation” from party affiliation, it’s the kind of response you so richly earned.
Also, it’s telling that you can’t even muster up a response to a list of things that Obama fucked up. I know you think it’s impossible, but it’s a fair list, open to debate maybe, but you can’t even admit to any of it being real — but at least you accuse me of OCD, naturally. It’s just the kind of guy you are.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: You make a lot of accusations here dude. Kind of like what you do with Obama. Links? proof? never called aimai a not stout enough anything. I accused her of using RW frames on Obama. I have called persons like you watb’s, pumas, liars, spoofs and trolls, but not for not being good enough democrats but for being watb’s, pumas, liars, spoofs and trolls. Along with a many other commenters calling each other all sorts of shit. It’s a BJ tradition. Never used Naderite, or unicorn seekers, but i kind of like “unicorn seekers” and will add it to my trusty bag of insults../ And always for making accusations without proof. Get busy with archives dude, you have a lot of work to do to dig out stuff that don’t exist. I will be here when you finish. Otherwise, you confirm my accusation that you make shit up without evidence to back it up.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: And like I said earlier in the thread, I have called into question those who bring forth complaints and criticisms without real evidence other than their feelings, and all the while claiming to be loyal Obama supporters that I or we should not counter criticize. And again, I am hardly the only one on this blog that has done that.
Annie
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
The “don’t give up yet” did not relate to remaining or leaving the Democratic party. It related to don’t give up on the issues debate. I am unconvertable with giving a litmus test over who is or is not a better Democrat. Ultimately, the discourse should be over policies and positions — I will take all the Independents I can get on my side. If Independents are moving to the Republican side, they are crazy…They forget history and the results of Republican rule. HCR impacts us all. The Republicans are disingenous when arguing for small government and entitlement reform, while keeping all the entitlements that have made them rich — defense and farm subsidies. Treating Lady Sarah as a viable candidate for anything is scary — not even given the fact that she is barely literate, her record of governance is a disaster. The religious right has nothing to offer Independents — talk about the opposite of small government — having the church mandate our social and religious sphere. etc., etc., etc…Republicans have given us nothing but lies, and the media has fallen behind them lock step.
So stay engaged and have fun. If nothing else, we can stand opposition in our midst — it just keeps us more honest.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Annie: Not to worry. You can go back 3 years ago and I have been saying over and again the same thing as today on this blog. My beliefs have always been the same whether registered as a dem or independent from the time I can remember anything. They just happen to fall mostly on the left side of the pol fulcrum where the dem party resides, mostly. With all the neurosis over here, it is still way way better than the right side.
Though they are certainly better organized with messaging. And that is my biggest complaint from dems, the lack of discipline and grasping the nature of the non zero sum game that is politics in this country. Not only from CC;ers but from many rank and file dems as well. There is a way to dissent, and too many have no clue how to do it responsibly without withdrawing, or giving the perception of withdrawing support of their parties elected leaders. And for not realizing or caring that a presidents power is directly related to that reality or perception of support. It is a self defeating feed loop of failure and weakness when it gets to a certain point.
Annie
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Cool……I am new to the site. I have to say that today’s thread made me uncomfortable — as if we lost what was really important. Personal attacks lead us astray. Republicans would love nothing better than to have us fighting among ourselves — and we have too many supposed Democrats inciting internal fights. Democrats and Independents should be aligned. I love a teabagger article I read that interviewed teabaggers, who had no problem paying several thousand dollars to attend a teabagger convention, all the while talking about their summer homes and vacations to Europe and beyond…Etc.
Kisses to Charlie…
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Annie:
Yea, me too. Though it was my own fault. Big mouth and all.
Jay B.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
So, your defense is that she’s not a bad Democrat, just a right wing shill?
Here’s a good one:
aimai: I don’t think Obama’s new ploy is a mistake because I don’t like Obama. I do like Obama,
You:
I don’t believe you. Not a single bit.
edit – at least him as president
And this one’s a charmer:
aimai: To accuse me of lying about that is just weird. Why would I bother?
You:
“But what has been infuriating these past few months are people coming here hawking or trying to create Obama FAIL memes whether openly or covertly and telling me they just want Obama to do better. Some do, and I have no problem with that, as long as their criticisms are substantial and fact based.
Your bs today about obama not being man enough, or commanding enough could well have come straight out of the RNC, as well as some other lame anti Obama RW framing from you and others. One thing about writing long verbose screes, they can help to fill in cracks in arguments, but they also provide more opportunity for the truth to come out.”
So yeah, you’re not questioning her Democratic bona fides, just floating the possibility that she, and/or maybe unnamed others, are working covertly hawking Obama FAIL “memes” and that the longer they write the “truth” comes out.
So there are a lot of “purity” screaming douchebags on this site. What’s your point?
This is also awesome, if only tangentially related:
Which is, of course, another way of questioning her bona fides. After all, what does that bitch know about politics anyway? If you knew anything about her or what’s she’s done, you’d apologize for being such a total asshole.
sbjules
I don’t think I have ever seen such an infatuation with a President’s Chief of Staff, ever. It really is insane.
Ever? What about Karl Rove.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: LOL. I stand by everything I said, and none of it had anything to do with the democratic party or loyalty to it. Asshole? guilty as charged. But also on the mark and I don’t whine about unfair treatment. I return fire. You progs have such tender feelings. Maybe you should take up crocheting instead of political blogging. You have a nice evening JayB. And did I tell you I’m no longer in your party? I must have. It’s true.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@sbjules: Karl Rove wasn’t Chief of Staff. He was the political officer in the WH. and sometimes policy adviser. Josh Bolton and Andy Card were bush’s only CoS.
Crazy Kale Lady
@sbjules: Oh for fuck’s sake. Read comment #1 and reply #8.
Hey Everyone! Pro Tip!
Read upthread before you post. Chances are, your super-amazing, mind-blowing, uber-pithy and awesomely astute point has been made 87 times by now.
Honestly.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Crazy Kale Lady: The NCAA Tourny is coming up. Hope your cool uniform Bonafides are in good shape for the bracket pool :)
Annie
@Jay B.:
You are an asshole. We all are at some point assholes. What would be hard to dispute at this point — whether we are Democrats or Independents — is the extent to which the administration is controlling the narrative. They aren’t. And, Democrats in Congress have to share the blame. Read the Politico article on RNC talking points. If the RNC thinks they can win by painting Obama as a “socialist,” than something is wrong. Nothing about making the country better. No ideas about how to govern. Nothing — just perpetuating lies after talking points after lies after talking points. They governed, and they failed. Republicans in Congress have become wealthy off of tax payer dollars. Where is this in the narrative? Why isn’t that front page? I completely support the administration, but I am frustrated that the RNC could win with vacuous slogans. Something is wrong.
Jay B.
I stand by everything I said, and none of it had anything to do with the democratic party or loyalty to it.
I knew you’d say that. You’re a terminally dishonest motherfucker. You literally said that there were “covert” attempts to spread “create” right wing memes — but you weren’t calling anyone out, oh, heavens no. Just because you thought there were covert right wing agents posing as “democrats” spreading filthy lies about Obama doesn’t mean you were questioning anyone’s actual Democratic bonnies. You were…who the fuck knows?
Annie
I am suddenly in moderation purgatory. Ah, some things remain constant — it is a good feeling…to know that one can count on some things in life….
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jay B.: LOL. you have a good night JayB. And try and relax. I mean that.
Annie
@Jay B.:
Give. it. up….You made your point, motherfucker.
Corner Stone
@Annie: Hilarious.