Frightened Democrats who compromise their principles for support from “moderates” will end up with neither. Even Republicans respect a Democrat who stands up unapologetically for what he believes.
Write it down, Blanche.
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TR
People respect guts, as Grayson notes, but they also respect authenticity.
In Andrew Young’s biography, he tells a story of campaigning for Congress in 1970. An old redneck in a pickup truck with a gun rack and a confederate flag pulled up to where he was speaking and got out. Young swallowed hard and stuck out his hand, asking for the man’s vote. The guy said there were only two people he was voting for that year — Young and Lester Maddox, the archconservative segregationist incumbent governor — because “y’all are the only ones who believe what you’re sayin’.”
Napoleon
Blanche would rather tell labor that she is for card check in the 06-08 period and then when there was actually a possibility to get it passed in 08-10 reverse her position.
Morbo
But David Broder* said that Grayson won’t stand a chance because of his naughty behavior!
*may not have actually said that
Cat Lady
Grayson has also figured out the bumper sticker thing.
“Republicans want you to die quickly”
Another lesson for the Dems – say something true, short and tart, and then double down.
Comrade Jake
Anyone catch the recent Grayson / Bachmann battle? TPM had a link, but I haven’t had a chance to watch the video.
chowkster
Edited to add later: Sorry for posting off topic. I needed to get this off my chest.
Why are most software developers such libertarian or republican assholes? And it is not like they are doing some brilliant work at NASA or NSA or some such. Just schmucks who barely earn their paychecks writing shitty J2EE XML apps for some asshole corporation when they are not slacking off the job or masturbating to Atlas Shrugged. What makes them feel so goddamned entitled? Before you get offended, I am a software developer myself.
Cat Lady
@chowkster:
Maybe it’s the Cheetos dust?
Violet
@Cat Lady:
So true. I simply cannot figure out why the Dems and their highly-paid advisers don’t get this. I’m not even in politics and it’s been obvious to me for ages.
Dems don’t get messaging at all. I thought things might change with Obama “Yes We Can!” etc., but so far…nothing. Grayson is a breath of fresh air.
@TR: Also agree about the authenticity. Grayson is who he is and doesn’t try to hide it. It’s easy to respect that.
Remember November
@chowkster:
Troglodytes fear the unknown. THey want to feel like masters of their domain. Living in a line-by line code existence makes them feel like they have a “command line” level access t their life. Yet, equally I know a lot of php devs who are the opposite. Must be a Microsoft clone mentality thing.
Alex S.
Being in the center only makes sense when the center has got the right position.
Mark
@Chowkster: Wow, I don’t feel bad about giving up on being a software developer 13 years ago. I took some graphics class where the prof was a c-sucker and the other students thrived on mountain dew and sitting at unix workstations from midnight to 5 am.
I chalk the libertarian b.s. up to most computer programmers lacking the ability to attract a girlfriend. Atlas Shrugged teaches maligned people that all of their special talents are unfairly ignored.
The Moar You Know
@chowkster: I’m a sysadmin for developers, have been for the last 8 years, and I don’t know what the deal is; about 7 out of 8 are reactionary right-wing wannabe Nazi assholes and the other 1 of 8 somehow are decent people.
If you figure it out, let me know.
gypsy howell
Blanche believes that Wellpoint, Walmart and the Walton family in particular are her paymasters.
She is standing up for what she believes.
gypsy howell
@The Moar You Know:
I’ll go with Mark’s Girlfriend Hypothesis.
sparky
um, as Newshoggers observed, maybe there’s a lesson here for someone else, and someone else’s idea of financial “reform” and health care “reform”.
just sayin’
4tehlulz
@chowkster: Because they’re pretty much engineers.
Just Some Fuckhead
DFS
@chowkster: It’s all the Rush records they listened to when they were teenagers. They internalized objectivism in the most insidious possible way.
Bad Horse's Filly
@TR: THIS.
jron
yes. yes, and yes. the surest way to lose is to stand for nothing. If your core supporters don’t much care for you, then neither will anyone else. And if you’re wishy-washy, you look weak and confused.
Frankly it’s hard to believe that this is not obvious, but apparently it’s not.
A Mom Anon
A big part of the problem has been a tolerance for bullies and liars.
If someone walks into my house and shits on the carpet,I have the right to toss them out the door(with my foot in their ass). Not only that,I have an obligation not to give into their whining about how mean I am for throwing them out.
I know I’ve written this here before,but my Grandma E used to tell her grandkids that we all had the right to be assholes,BY OURSELVES. When we could work and play well with others,then we could come back to the fold. If not,well,don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. There were 18 of us,she took no shit at all and we adored her for it.
DFS
In re: Grayson, meanwhile, the first commenter nails it. Grayson comes across as both competent and sincere in a way that practically no other politician on the scene these days can match.
I think it’s also worth noting that his support for stuff like auditing the Fed has probably got him a lot of support from the Ron Paul-type wing of the Republican base (which most Republicans are happy to pretend isn’t there).
demimondian
Alan Grayson? Yes, he’s good for an ego boost, and, yes, his schtick cuts through the media narrative — and, yes, everyone loves the fact that he’ll tell a reporter that the other guys are BS-ing — but how does that make him any more trustworthy than a far-right demagogue?
woody
chowkster:
Imho it stems from their (not altogether delusional) conviction that they, indeed, belong to the Master Race, the “programmers,” the controllers, of the IT Universe. Computers RULE, and these guys rule the computers.
In a funny, and paradoxical way, they seem to believe their skill at IT endows them with actual powers in meat space where, if their wildest dreams were realized, they’d be the Elite.
But they got zits they can’t program away…
liberal
@chowkster:
More generally, engineers tend to be far more conservative on average than e.g. scientists.
Will
As someone who has had his fair share of compsci courses, but no professional experience, I think programmers-to-be consider themselves very special butterflies who will be coddled by corporations, and they all want to work in corporations because that’s where the money is.
They’re tailor made for libertarianism, because they all feel like they’re better than everyone else around them and are repeatedly told by professors that they’ll be rewarded lavishly for it. Thank god I took those courses as an employed adult seeking professional education, because I didn’t have to deal with that environment as an insecure late teen/early 20-something seeking validation and social peers.
It’s a very competitive group with limited social skills and empathy. They’re very comfortable pushing the weak out in their interpersonal relationships with fellow students – more left for them – and all seem to be drawn to violent video games and art. Very, very, very sexist group, as well. I actually ended up talking more to the handful of female comp sci students, pretty much all of whom ended up switching over to engineering.
Creepy, creepy subculture. Sometimes I think the corporate management types shipped as many programming jobs as they could overseas just so they wouldn’t have to deal with American computer nerds.
burnspbesq
@Cat Lady:
“Maybe it’s the Cheetos dust?”
Has the medical community recognized mesocheetooma as a real disease yet? It’s just like mesothelioma, except that it destroys the brain instead of the lungs.
(apologies to anyone who has, or has a family member who has, mesothelioma. I know there isn’t anything humorous about that).
Just Some Fuckhead
liberal
@A Mom Anon:
Agreed, but I think a better metaphor is “If someone kicks you in the nuts, and keeps doing it, and you don’t kick back, by say the fourth time or so I think there’s something really wrong with you.”
Bill E Pilgrim
@chowkster: The developers and engineers I work with aren’t. To a person, they’re fiercely in favor of universal health coverage, and were pretty much all against the idea of invading Iraq.
Of course, they all live in France, which may explain some of it.
By the way, I see in this morning’s paper that France has reached 10% unemployment. Big news here, it’s the first time it’s gone that high since the the late 1990s.
I guess all that so-schlizm keeps France lagging behind the USA, just as the Republicans are always claiming. Sigh.
After all, they’d have to add another percentage point or so to reach US unemployment rates right now.
Skepticat
Blanche? How about Barack?
Punchy
Did you say chicken-shit Dems?
I thought you might have…..
HRA
What you have to understand about Congress is that the greater percentage are lawyers. Before I state my thoughts and in defense of what some lawyers here will take umbrage at, I come from a very long line of lawyers, judges, etc. I do respect the profession.
Lawyers will scrabble in the courtroom on opposing sides and leave together for lunch or a drink. They tend to do a good portion of acting as in drama acting, too.
Having said that I am missing Ted Kennedy who would have made the chamber echo over what we are seeing there now.
Re: Blanche Lincoln – her state is Walmart. I know people go off on certain issues with Walmart. Yet, it’ s a goodly number of the AR population that depends on their living from it.
chowkster
But – and this is what chaps my ass – these guys are not DOING any groundbreaking research or inventing new algorithms. Fuck, they are not even contributing to any Open Source projects or anything like that. They are churning out shitty computer code for some lousy, greedy corporation. Nothing special that a drone sitting in an office in Bangalore or Pune cannot do.
Growing up in India, I have met some self-made people who literally pulled themselves up by their bootstraps when they were probably the first to go to school in their several generations. I could understand if some of these people feel that others could do the same. But Mr. Java Developer here was born into a white collar educated family and went to a fucking public university. And now he (it’s always the guys who are assholes. I have found that female software developers are mostly decent and very competent people) has got his and screw everyone else and the government better stay out of his business, forever.
What makes these mediocre people leading middling lives think so highly of themselves?
(It’s not a question. Just a rant)
ricky
This tells you less about the value of Grayson speaking out than it does about why incumbents, even in a throw them out year, rarely lose primaries.
ricky
@demimondian:
Because he is on our side and he is doing what we imagined
Obama was promising he would do despite all that “there is no blue states of America. there is no red states of America” horse manure. Don’t ya know? You betcha.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Skepticat: You mean the Barrack that is pushing for reconciliation to pass HCR and said “so what” to electoral consequences. The one who said yesterday to progs and others in the House who are balking at doing the necessary first pass the current Senate Bill or else
That said, if Obama over rules Holder and backs down from trying KSM in federal court and sends these trials to the Military to try, then that is something to attack the dude on. And I am with you, if he does this then outrage is called for. Let’s hope he doesn’t.
geg6
I wish all Dems would take a lesson from Grayson. He’s awesome. I am a somewhat of a combative and outspoken person IRL and I totally respect and admire that in a politician, even if grudgingly for GOPers and Libertards (though few meet the “coherent” bar) who can speak a coherent thought with honesty, even if it is sometimes a brutal honesty.
As for Blanche, there is a rather brutal honesty happening in her political fortunes lately. Emily’s List has a devastating post on its blog about what a liar she was in regard to their support and why they withdrew their support for her and will never give it back.
http://emilyslist.org/blog/surprised_about_blanche_lincolns_fight_for_survival_im_not/
BGK
I guess I live in bizarro world. With only three exceptions (one apolitical, one low-key Paultard, and one Pailinista (one of only two women in the group)), our whole technical/development/systems group are raging O-Bots. We had much sparkling wine on Inauguration Day. The “creative” people are the true Fascists.
This is in deep red Florida, also.
demimondian
@HRA: Um, yeah. No.
Walmart is a large employer in Bentonville, yes. Outside of Bentonville? No, actually, it isn’t a very large contributor to the state — and Bentonville is a tiny place.
demimondian
@ricky: That’s my point, though. Alan Grayson isn’t on your side, he’s on Alan Grayson’s side.
Kryptik
Of course, for most people, they sadly won’t get much further than the ‘Grayson and Bachmann are equally insane, truth is always smack dab int he middle’ pablum. At least Grayson kicked some serious ass.
Thank god, too, since the rest of Florida still has some issues. Like legally denying a pregnant woman the self-determination of her own body.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@chowkster: I live in Texas, so my sample is kind of skewed in the first place, but even here, not all of the programmers I know – including myself – are wingers. One I know who is programs because he thinks it’s the place he can make the most money; I’ve always said he’d shovel horse shit if someone would pay him $100/hr.
At some level, programming is kind of like owning a gun or being a heart specialist: These people think they have the ability to control your own little world, and they did it all by themselves (except for the people who run the companies that pay their wages, or the nurses that work for the doctor, or the company that made the gun, which they generally do not like to be reminded of).
And all of the programmers who realize don’t do it all themselves did one of three things: Either they became teachers; they invented extreme programming (XP) (Scrum was invented by those who saw that XP was working but couldn’t take the ego hit of working with someone else, like the very people we are talking about); or we spend all of our time cleaning up after those who think they can do it by themselves.
Cat Lady
@burnspbesq:
A programmer’s dream.
...now I try to be amused
@chowkster: The libertarian nerds I’ve met hate politics and have no hope there will be change for the better. Their impractical political opinions are just a way to distinguish themselves from the “common herd” and sneer at them. I’ll bet that when they do vote they vote for the likes of Ron Paul, so politically they don’t matter. But not that many programmers I’ve met are vocal libertarians.
I’m a CS major and professional software developer, BTW.
Cat Lady
@geg6:
An anonymous comment to that Emily’s List post which neatly sums up the progressives’ dilemma:
“Emily’s List would rather a conservative anti-choice Republican hold Blanche Lincoln’s seat than Sen. Lincoln? So, ideological purity trumps common sense? And, if her loss gives the Reps 51 seats, will that make Emily’s List folks happy? Am I getting this right? You want a Senate that will block every Obama appointee to the Supreme Court? And I thought Limbaugh was nuts.”
I think that a Democrat voting Republican is better than a Republican voting Republican. Keeping committee chairmanships away from the batshit insanity that will ensue if the majority flips is more important than Blanche Lincoln.
jrg
chowkster: I’ve been in tech for years (sysadmin, QA, support). Most of the people I’ve worked with are Dems.
Your bigoted tirades are not helping anyone. The next time you feel like venting, take a walk instead.
VOR
Yes, yes, yes.
Bill Clinton keeps saying people will vote for “Strong and Wrong” before right but wishy-washy. See Bush, George W.
I didn’t always agree with Paul Wellstone, but I knew for sure he was taking positions he believed in. But so many politicians have their fingers in the wind all the time and seem to believe in nothing but getting re-elected.
OriGuy
I’ve been a software developer for 32 years. It’s probably true that more lean libertarian than the general public, but I think that’s true for engineers in general. It has something to do with working with systems that are highly structured and mechanical.
I don’t think it’s as prevalent as chowster says. Maybe that’s the environment (s)he’s in. I work in Silicon Valley. Most of the people I work with now voted for Obama and aren’t libertarians.
I did work with one guy that was a Libertarian, as in campaigned for the party and went to conventions. He got laid off, had no skills outside the proprietary systems we worked on, procrastinated about going for interviews until the severance and unemployment ran out. He ended up staying with friends. One day they came home and found a note in the kitchen that led them to call the police. He had killed himself. So much for self-reliance.
Napoleon
@Cat Lady:
And your whole attitude is what makes Blanche possible. If people like her knew that there was a downside to siding with the other side on important votes and that party discipline will to some degree get imposed the problems with the Lincolns/Nelsons/Bayhs becomes less. But like anything else in life to get to that end you have to invest, in in this case the investment maybe more Republicans in the short term, but unless you are willing to make that investment things will never change.
PeakVT
Frightened Democrats who compromise their principles for support from “moderates” will end up with neither.
One would think this could be filed safely away in the “No Duh!” drawer, but, sadly, no. Every Democratic candidate should be made to write this a 1000 times in longhand.
Ed in NJ
Grayson has taken one of the Republican strong suits and co-opted it for himself. He teached the Constitution to high schoolers, and passes out copies of it to people. Such a simple way of turning the “Republicans are the party of the Constitution” on its head. It’s sad that other Democrats don’t follow suit.
chowkster
@jrg: Bigoted is a bit harsh word to use for my rants. But whatever. It is your blog, so I will take your advice.
jrg
It’s not my blog, chowkster. Say whatever you like. My skin’s not that thin :)
Perry Como
@chowkster: Maybe it’s the environment you are in? I haven’t worked corporate in a long time, but in the scrappy start up industry the programmers I work with range from live-and-let-live libertarians to Working Families Party activists. I can’t think of a single person I’ve met that has been a Republican, but that could be self-selection bias. In the geek circles I hang out in a Republican would be mocked mercilessly; libertarians get more leeway, but that’s because they share their pot.
geg6
@Napoleon:
This. A thousand times, nay a million times, this.
Allan
The Democratic Party should hire an educator with a background in special education to work with members of Congress, most of whom are retarded, until they grasp this simple concept.
Ed Drone
@Mark:
What do engineers (including software engineers) use for birth control?
… Their personalities.
Ed
Ed Drone
@jron:
Multiple-Choice Mitt being one example. I have to say that Sarah Palin’s public persona, unfortunately, is the opposite — she appears to hold to simple (if simplistic) principles, putting her above the rest of the winger crowd in that respect.
I know, I know; her persona is purest b.s., and her one true principle is immediate gratification for her and her own (witness the “Oscar freebies” flap now going on), but she doesn’t come across as pandering, like Mitt and Rudy and so many of the others.
Ed
Paul in KY
I’m a programmer (22 years) & most of my colleagues here are right-wing nuts. I think it’s a combination of Mark’s theory above & that they are making some good money & hate paying taxes. I got mine, now fuck off government.
It can be depressing at times.
Tsulagi
I like Grayson. He was the one last year from the floor delivered his “The Republican health care plan is to not get sick, and if you do, DIE QUICKLY” speech. Sent R-baggers like those at RedState into collective vapors.
From Tim’s link also apparent he has common sense…
Imagine that. And polls in his R-leaning district showing favorable ratings from Is and Rs.
Didn’t he get the overarching D-Strategery memo that certain success will follow from self-fucking your own campaign pledges and legislation in the hope of getting an approving nod from serious adult Rs like Snowe and I-Conns? He doesn’t see the big picture.
Mark
jrg: “bigoted” isn’t really the right word. As a 15-year tech veteran, it’s hard to deny that there’s something a little different about computer programmers and engineers. For example, every company I’ve worked at has had blowups between technical employees (or between employees and managers) that involve yelling, profanity and threats of violence. These are people with advanced degrees who have no idea how to behave towards others and their managers don’t really bat an eye at it.
I asked a friend of mine who works in marketing how this would fly on her side of the building. “Um, you cannot yell at someone in a meeting. You would be reprimanded or fired.”
One thing that comes along with this strange behavior is an odd attitude to government and politics. Hence worthless fools like Steve Poizner, Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorina become serious politicians.
Tonal Crow
Good rhetoric works. That is all.
oscarbob
@Napoleon:
I couldn’t agree more, and I think maybe we should let Stupak know he’s playing with fire.
Yutsano
@geg6:
I knew I liked you for some reason. :)
Ron Beasley
Thanks for the link Tim – biggest day we’ve had in a month. And I appreciate the great comments thread as well.