The Times has a typically insipid and idiotic conversation between David Brooks and Dick Cavett on the topic of “trust”. There was nothing especially noteworthy about it, but I was struck by this picture illustrating leaders/institutions who had abused the public’s trust.
Don’t get me wrong — Paterson, Toyota, and the foreclosure thing make sense. The alleged wrong doing in these case was exactly the sort that should upset the public. But John Edwards and Tiger Woods? Is it really news that rich men like to have affairs?
And of course, what’s missing is a picture of Judy Miller. The Iraq war — both the propagandist run-up to it and the lack of planning for the war itself — shook public trust in institutions to the bone. But in all the endless handwringing conversations about loss of trust, that will never come up. The same way it will never come up in any discussion of the federal government’s financial problems.
It’s almost like it never happened.
anticontrarian
Where are the pictures of John Ensign? Or David Vitter? Or George H.W. Bush?
licensed to kill time
I have never understood why I should ever be upset about some politician/sports guy/movie star having an affair/getting drunk/using “salty language”. I just assume they all do it, like most human beings. It seems it’s when it gets out in public that we all have to have attacks of the vapors. Won’t someone think of the children,etc etc. Obsessing over trivialities while Rome is burning…
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Too late. Due to Karl Rove publishing his book Courage and Consequence, all that Iraq War history stuff has been officially revised.
And when Dick Cheney gets finished writing his memoirs, It will Be St. George and his warrior Prince of Darthness Dick saved the world from litard fascism, and endless lies of the left. Not to mention making Terry Schiavo into baby jeevus’s murdered sister.
KCinDC
Dave Weigel: “Hey, remember when David Vitter, John Ensign and Mark Sanford resigned in disgrace? Oh.”
FlipYrWhig
I will never understand why John Ensign hasn’t drawn more criticism for his conduct.
Short Bus Bully
Most people were wrong about the Iraq War. The vast majority of Americans fell for the bullshit rhetoric hook, line, and sinker. This isn’t about Americans losing trust in their institutions, it’s about Americans losing trust in THEMSELVES.
That’s about ten times harder to deal with.
Also explains the doubledown rage exhibited by the Teabaggers.
Yutsano
@FlipYrWhig: IOKIYAR. SATSQ.
@demo woman: HA! Mind-meld!
demo woman
@FlipYrWhig: IOKIYR… Gee look at diaper boy Vitter.
SATSQ
K. Grant
I wonder if the Village flogs Democrats because they actually evince some kind of shame – not full blown shame, but at least the appearance of shame, and thus the schadenfreude is that much the more enjoyable. With Republicans, meh, they never seem to be ashamed of anything, and thus how can you feel superior to some schlep if they continue to act as if they did nothing wrong?
demo woman
@Yutsano: lol.. Kerry was teased because of wind surfing and Diaper David still is held in esteem.
Douglas
The only people whose trust Tiger Woods betrayed was his sponsors.
Also, where’s the picture of David Brooks?
sukabi
pics that are missing include GWB, Dick Cheney, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Blankenfeld(sp?)(goldman sux CEO), fuckers at AIG, Washington Post, New York Times, the usual ball lickers on the Sunday political “talk shows”…. I could go on and on… but those folks are all responsible for the state we find ourselves in WRT the lack of trust the public has for government and our regular institutions.
Silver Owl
Remember republican men are a privileged group of people that is never ever to be seen as anything other absolutely perfection. Everything they say and everything they do is always right.
Yutsano
@demo woman: It’s the converse of hippie-punching: Republicans are by default good upstanding citizens so therefore they cannot be at fault for any delinquencies in character. And if they get caught, it’s just an abberation and reflects nothing on their true good upstanding citizen status.
Svensker
@demo woman:
Yes, but studly Diaper Dave had sex with women, while wimpy Kerry went wind surfing which is so gay.
Also, too, Kerry allowed himself to be wounded in Viet Nam in order to run for President 30 years later AND try to shame real true Murikans like Richard Cheney and Diaper Dave. Totally gay. (Used here as a perjorative, of course.)
Phoenix Woman
@anticontrarian:
Or George W. Bush, for that matter.
I was chatting the other day with some random dittohead who was yammering away about Edwards when I brought him up short by asking him “why is the media hammering away at a guy who retired from politics two years ago and hasn’t held an office for six years?”
He sputtered something to the effect that well, Edwards wanted to be president and he held himself up as so godly. To which I replied “You mean like Mark Sanford? That guy cheated on his wife too, and he held himself up as so godly — and he’s still considered a viable 2012 GOP candidate by some people. Oh, and he’s still a sitting governor.”
He didn’t have a reply to that.
PurpleGirl
I think that the Tiger Woods and John Edwards fidelity digs were uncalled for.
I don’t think rich has anything to do with it. I was involved with a guy who turned out to be a concurrent serial philanderer. He just couldn’t keep his pants zipped; he thought about sex all. the. time.
And believe me, working in publishing, he wasn’t even middle income comfortable. (He did have a great smile, wit and charm.)
Mark S.
@Short Bus Bully:
I don’t blame people for being mislead into the Iraq War. That’s understandable. What I do blame them for is not raising holy hell when no WMDs were found.
That and not being outraged by torture shows how far we have fallen as a nation.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@K. Grant:
I think they flog them because they are like them. Or liberal, but liberals with a personal career agenda and a need to appear “equal” in their criticism of dems and repubs, so they trump up what dems do wrong and play down the wanton liars we call republicans. They are corporate whores that suck up to their overlord winger suits in the ivory towers of big bidness and go easy on the right, or at least do false equivilence wanking on dems. Kind of like in families, where members rag on each other cause they know blood is thick and they will be forgiven for being assholes to their kinfolk. That is my nutty theory, anyways.
zhak
George W. Bush did more to destroy my own trust in our government than any other single person. See, despite not having a law-abiding Republican president since Eisenhower, Bush II took it to such an extreme that I could no longer fall back on “but the Constitution does have that pesky bit about the general welfare of its people” and feel a bit of pride.
As far as Edwards & Woods — I voted for Edwards in the last presidential primary, and thus, he violated my trust in him. An unelectable Democrat at a time when having another Republican in office would have been even more disastrous than the pseudo-Dems we have now. So, yeah, that’s a betrayal. & Woods, he’s built this whole lucrative persona about how perfect and wonderful he is, when, in fact, he’s a very fallible human being. He’s been selling us a lie since he signed his first endorsement deal.
I personally feel that there are many many more deserving entities that could have been in the graphic, but it doesn’t make the graphic any less accurate really.
sukabi
@Short Bus Bully: I don’t think the teabagger’s rage is a realization that they’ve been played for fools these many years… it’s more than likely a result of the last 9+ years of the full-throated liberal bashing that’s been done by the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh et al… and now with Obama in the WH it’s “proof” of what happens when affirmative action is taken too far.
In other words, the anger is a way to show displeasure with a black democrat in the White House… I’m not saying if Obama was white that it would be all hugs and kisses from this bunch, because it wouldn’t… but the hate would only be ratcheted up to 5 instead of 11.
Svensker
@Mark S.:
Yeah. Bill O’Reilly had SUCH a hard time digesting that hat he ate.
J.
Hate Cavett. Total name dropper. And agree the column was “insipid,” Doug J. The only good bit was the Groucho quote at the end. A shame because it (“trust”) was a good topic. Feh.
gizmo
It’s important to go beyond identifying Judy Miller as someone who abused the public trust. The real problem is the editors and publishers who provided a platform for her rubbish.
Brachiator
Actually, I can see a Tiger Woods/Toyota connection. Both had built up a huge amount of goodwill, and stupidly squandered it. Fer xample, when Tiger Woods would vacation in his wife’s home country and city, the people there treated him like a native son and helped fend off reporters and photographers. They feel like fools to think that they were really shielding his catting around. It would be different if it were a John Daly or a Charlie Sheen, two bad boys who are loved by some despite their antics.
Woods himself is aware of the issue of public perception. It’s not just about rich men liking to have affairs (and rich women, too, for that matter). Some people who are not as cynical or sophisticated or whatever may decide not to contribute to the Tiger Woods foundation, which would be unfortunate.
Toyota built a reputation based on quality and customer service. They too have squandered the huge amount of goodwill that they had built up, and may become just another car company (just as Tiger Woods may become just another golfer).
A recent edition of The Economist pointed out that Perrier never recovered from their slow and inconsistent response to a 1990 benzene contamination scandal, which ultimately led to their being bought out by Nestle.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Love how the worst offenders, you know, the people and organizations that fucked up the world’s economy for years to come; the dirt bags who are now daring to WHINE because everyone isn’t being nice to them and bringing them milkshakes; I love how the closest Time can get to representing the real villains of the fucking piece is an abstract collage featuring a God damn foreclosure sign some and a pair of hands cradling a pile of money.
ajr22
You want to discuss the war, instead of tigers wandering eye? grow up.
Jules
You have got to be shitting me?
David fucking Brooks discussing trust?
This is why i am so cynical. One of the biggest boosters of that BS war in Iraq discussing why people have lost trust in the “national project”.
It is people like Brooks who have helped erode the public’s trust…Jesus, what a douchnozzle.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Brachiator:
Just another golfer that, y’know, wins a lot.
arguingwithsignposts
Hope you’re enjoying the sunshine as much as lady smudge.
Phoenix Woman
@Jules:
Kinda like Sally Quinn criticizing the wives of horndog politicians.
mvr
@zhak: Yeah, my take on Edwards too. I didn’t vote for him, but I seriously considered doing so before he dropped out. What happens in politics is really important, and risking it just to sleep with someone is just stupid. Imagine that he’d won the primaries and been the alternative to McCain . . .
That said, the pastiche isn’t a representative sample of politicians who have betrayed important trusts.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: Awww! KITTEH!!
scav
Trust in the government?! I’ve learnt not to trust too damn many of my neighbors.
Brachiator
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
RE: (just as Tiger Woods may become just another golfer)
A lot of athletes win a lot. Tiger had taken a sport which was moribund and made it “must see” TV for fans. He increased the pot that all players contended for. He made Nike’s bones as a seller of golf products, increased corporate sponsorship, etc.
But it wasn’t just that he was chasing a record. It was his relationship with his father, which some fans assumed would be duplicated with his own kids. But that’s a bit tainted when you learn that he was banging babes during and after his wife’s pregnancies.
Ironically, had Tiger remained a bachelor or been more a hell raiser from the beginning, there would be less of an issue.
Tiger’s aura was never just about the mere winning. When was the last time you watched championship bowling on TV?
Mike E
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Tiger wins a lot, ‘juices’ even more.
That said, I hope he wins many more and discomforts those golfing jackasses.
wasabi gasp
You can point to those people without poking yourself in the eye.
trollhattan
@ Brachiator
Tiger’s aura was never just about the mere winning. When was the last time you watched championship bowling on TV?
Comrade Mary
@kommrade reproductive vigor:
Co-sign. And it’s a godawful graphic, too. What, was this bring your kid to work day?
Cynicor
Don’t forget, Paterson was not elected as governor, so at most we in New York placed a half-share of faith in him. Edwards, many of us actually voted for, but he didn’t commit his acts while in office.
(Disclaimer: I didn’t vote for Spitzer/Paterson. I voted for the guy from the Rent Is Too Damn High party.)
trollhattan
This one’s from Bakersfield, so it almost doesn’t count.
sacbee.com/2010/03/06/2586591/roy-ashburn-in-firestorm-over.html
kid bitzer
katrina.
also.
(i mean: in the list of events that undermined trust. )
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
This was in the caption under the photos (emphasis added):
“Just a few of the many people and things we’ve lost trust in:”
Why, thank you Mr. Brooks and Mr. Cavett! I had no idea that I once had trusted Tiger Woods not to cheat on his wife or that I was party to the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Thank you for helping me to know myself a little better.
No Joy in Mudville
I agree with DougJ on Woods, but I think Edwards did things that went far beyond a mere personal affair and put his entire party at risk. It may be a tough line to draw, but I think he crossed it.
He doesn’t get credit for failing to get the nomination — he wanted it and would have taken it if he had gotten the votes. The result that could have ensued (President McCain) had the timing been right (or I guess wrong) would have been a disaster.
kay
It is odd though. Not that the NYTimes has traced our lack of trust in government to John Edwards.
But just Iraq, in general.
I would think David Brooks and the rest of the war promoters would be huddled together, closely monitoring the security situation in Iraq, leading up to the election there.
I’m starting to think their support of that invasion wasn’t really about the Iraqi “peeeople”.
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
RE: Tiger’s aura was never just about the mere winning. When was the last time you watched championship bowling on TV?
But you know who Tiger Woods is.
How many know the top bowlers in the PBA Tour?
Hell, does the PBA even exist anymore?
Nomsayin’?
SGEW
Additionally, our government tortured innocent men to death while they were in our custody, and nobody is being held to any kind of account. Some of the people responsible were given medals; others were given Washington Post editorial positions.
How can you trust anyone now?
Kobie
@zhak:
Huh? Woods built his persona around the fact that he’s the best golfer ever.
jeffreyw
Anyone up for some snacks?
Kobie
@Brachiator: Well, hang on. Equating golf and the PBA doesn’t hold water. The PGA Tour was doing just fine ratingswise before Tiger came along. Not even close to afterward, but it was still FAR more profitable and popular than the PBA Tour (which, BTW, still does exist).
asiangrrlMN
@jeffreyw: Yum yum yum! Snacks!
@arguingwithsignposts: Aw, there’s the beautiful and elegant Lady Smudge!
@Kobie: Agreed. I didn’t give a shit about his personal life. I gave a shit that he was a person of color who dominated a pretty colorless sport like nobody’s business. He didn’t lie to anybody–except his wife.
I knew there were no WMD. I knew the government fucking sucked for the W. regime. The inchoate rage behind the teabaggers’ rantings and ravings have very little to do with undermined trust in the government.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Anybody who watches golf with even a passing interest can see what a completely self-absorbed individual he is, even by the standards of professional athletes, and the skirt-chasing tendencies had been intimated by some sportswriters all the way back in the ’90s. I wasn’t even a little bit surprised when the first infidelity accusations came out (though I admit that when the number of bimbos hit double figures the sheer breadth of it was a bit unexpected). On the other hand our journalism culture, with the way it reacts to information such as this, never ceases to amaze me.
Mike G
The Times could do a big montage of its own breaches of trust, large and small – Miller, the whole Iraq gullibility fustercluck, Jayson Blair, the other fabricating reporter, withholding the warrantless wiretapping story until after the ’04 election on Bush’s request.
Calming Influence
Someone at the Times reads The National Enquirer.
Violet
That photo collage is pathetic. Of all the individuals who have done something wrong, two of the three they choose to show are African American men. Coincidence?
And they show John Edwards, whose lies and background overlap with both the other two – politician, cheating on wife. Couldn’t they come up with some other big time liar? Why not Bernie Madoff?
What they really should have done is put a collection of political pundits’ photos in the collage. They lie and mislead the public all the time and never get called on it. Talk about a lack of trust.
harlana peppper
@jeffreyw: wow, that looks super, extra yummy
but i’m watching my weight, red wine diet
(wipes saliva from chin)
Kyle
Anybody who watches golf with even a passing interest can see what a completely self-absorbed individual he is, even by the standards of professional athletes
I find from personal experience that most professional and olympic athletes, not to mention most very successful actors and musicians, politicians, high-flying executives and such, are very self-absorbed and unbalanced personalities and frequently not pleasant people to hang around with if you can’t do something for them. Being competitive at the upper levels of their respective fields is very demanding, so oftentimes their life experiences are quite different from ordinary people and their personalities and beliefs about people and the world reflect this.
If you’d spent your entire childhood on a golf course being pushed relentlessly to perform instead of hanging out with your peers, then having massive success, money and adulation and lackeys bowing to your whims 24/7, you could develop some pretty warped perceptions about life and about yourself.
jeffreyw
@harlana peppper: Thank you maam, Eva sez hi. So say we all.
eemom
OT, but this is pretty good:
huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/president-obama-replace-r_b_488416.html
Violet
@Kobie:
The “best golfer ever” and the “good family man” persona were both part of his story. Had Tiger been open about his wh0ring around with Vegas showgirls, pr0n stars, etc., it’s not as likely that a company such as Accenture – whose existence depends on their reputation for being smart, competent, dependable, able to solve problems, etc. – would have hired him to sell their ideals. Equally, had Tiger been a boring middle-of-the-pack golfer, he wouldn’t have had as many – if any – endorsement deals. It’s also possible that were he less photogenic, and not a person of color, he might also not have been as interesting to advertisers.
Tiger’s appeal depended on the entire package. It’s pretty obvious this is the case because as soon as the stories of his exploits broke and were known to be true, a whole lot of his advertisers dumped him or distanced themselves significantly.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
How many deaths did Woods cause? Toyota has, what, 30+ at this point?
Sorry, but there’s a huge difference between cheating on your wife and trying to cover up the fact that your product is killing people.
harlana peppper
@jeffreyw: thank you so much, hi back at Eva and all others! and my fondest wishes
can you teleport those dumplings down my way, per chance? and don’t forget the sauce, we like the sauce
:)
Yutsano
@harlana peppper: Methinks we need to organize a BJ confab in Southern Illinois. We’ll send plenty of notice so jeffreyw can have plenty of food ready.
Mike G
Accenture – whose existence depends on their reputation for being smart, competent, dependable, able to solve problems, etc.
Which has about as much basis in reality as Tiger Woods’ family man persona. Consultants are self-serving jargon suckholes.
Brachiator
@Kobie:
TV ratings for golf swelled after Tiger entered the scene. Golf purses expanded as well. TV ratings have declined in Tiger’s absence, already making the downturn in the economy more deeply felt in the golfing industry.
When was the last time a bowling tournament was on broadcast TV?
The point is that Tiger Woods wasn’t just the top golfer in a lucrative sport. He is rumored to have begun the first athlete worth nearly $1 billion.
Despite the notions that all rich athletes are set for life, there has never been a sports figure in, for example, the Forbes 400 richest Americans. In his apology speech, Woods tried hard to protect his foundation, which is a separate entity, but dependent upon the goodwill he generates. There have been news stories on the impact of Tiger’s absence on the sport. He is a financial entity as much as an athlete, and his problems have affected the whole of golf in terms of its financial footing.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
RE: Ironically, had Tiger remained a bachelor or been more a hell raiser from the beginning, there would be less of an issue.
How does being self-absorbed directly relate to anything? And intimation is not the same as revelation.
Not all the women were bimbos. Not by any stretch. And as you admit, the numbers have had a different impact than if there were fewer.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
OT
While no decision has been made by Obama concerning where or if the 9-11 terrorist trials will be in civilian court. A little perspective on what the administration is up against.
How can any president keep his word when surrounded by sniveling cowards in other elected office. I say get busy with a Mars mission and have the trial there. Or maybe the moon. What a bed wetting nation we have.
eta- if they have a need for middle aged cranky Obots, I would be glad to go along. As far away as I can get from watb land.
Laertes
@Mnemosyne: Sorry, but there’s a huge difference between cheating on your wife and trying to cover up the fact that your product is killing people.
No need to get all dramatic. There’s no caption on that picture stating that all breaches of trust are equal. Brachiator’s observation, that both Toyota and Woods very carelessly and quickly damaged a a valuable image that had been carefully constructed over a long period of time, is a good one. If all you can say about it is that Woods didn’t kill anyone, you’re not saying anything very interesting, nor pointing out a flaw that anyone else couldn’t have seen, had they bothered list the ways in which a philandering American golfer and a Japenese manufacturer of notoriously dangerous cars aren’t precisely the same thing.
As for me, I’ve never watched a minute of golf, but even I’m aware that Woods was a marketing powerhouse, and that his appeal was a combination of his awesome ability and his wholesome, competent, no-drama image. I’m not a bit surprised to see advertisers dumping him. No advertiser wants to pay good money to be a punchline.
harlana peppper
@Yutsano: Food Porn, so cruel and titillating for the cooking-challenged
Violet
@Mike G:
Yep. Consultants are not my favorite kind of people. Lots of money wasted there, in my experience. But that doesn’t mean they don’t want to project a certain kind of image. And that image isn’t one that’s tied to pr0n stars and Vegas parties. Nevermind what the consultants themselves do (lots of parties, from what I’ve heard).
Kobie
@Brachiator: I’m not denying that ratings didn’t swell after Tiger joined the tour. But even before he joined, they were leaps and bounds past bowling.
schrodinger's cat
After the success of my mango frozen yogurt last week. I am making blue berry frozen yogurt, right now. Does anyone want some?
Yutsano
@schrodinger’s cat: Yesh plz!
DougJ
@Violet:
I would also argue that John Edwards, like Clinton before him, is de facto black. If you’re a poor, southern white and you eat too much/chase women/build too big a house, you may as well be black in terms of media coverage.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat: Pix Please
Mnemosyne
@Laertes:
Given DougJ’s original point that the NYT is ignoring the elephant in the room that is Iraq, I think it’s pretty important to note that some breaches of trust are more damaging than others. You can use this handy chart to figure out whether or not Woods owes you an apology for breaching your trust in him.
Yes, that’s kind of my point. What “trust” was there with Tiger Woods? Why was I supposed to care that he cheated on his wife other than being able to gossip about someone I don’t know? At least John Edwards was trying to get himself into a position of great political power. Paterson used the power of his office to cover up a crime. Woods was selling cars and former divisions of Arthur Andersen.
I think there’s a difference between trusting a celebrity not to lie to you about his personal life and trusting a corporation not to let its products kill you. The PR damage to the Toyota brand is, frankly, the least of the company’s problems.
To me, this seems like yet another symptom of the media’s inability to distinguish between news and gossip. Toyota’s cars killing people is news. Tiger Woods cheating on his wife is gossip. Treating them as basically the same thing is what’s wrong with our media.
Mark S.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Warning: Legal/Political Wankery to Follow
I wonder how far this could be taken. Suppose Obama wanted to try Bush and Cheney for war crimes. Could Congress withhold funding for any trial concerning Bush and Cheney? Could they pass a law prohibiting any funds to go to trials of people who assassinate abortion doctors? How about trials against favored Republican donors?
eemom
fer chrissake, peeples — not saying it’s on the level of Bushco, but John Edwards fucking DID betray our trust, BIG time.
WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED if he got the nomination and his ultra sleazoid behavior — not the screwing around itself, but the incredibly disgusting, craven and cowardly shit he pulled trying to cover it up, while he was still running for president — came out, which it WOULD have? Huh?? President McCain and Vice President Palin, that’s what.
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
It’s that way because Republicans and the media decided to use National Enquirer tactics to try and bring Bill Clinton down when they couldn’t find any other excuse. I really think that, without that whole fiasco, the Edwards story would have died on the vine.
After all, what media outlet was finally able to get the pictures of Edwards with his mistress and baby? Not the NYT. Not ABC News. It was, in fact, the National Enquirer.
Meanwhile, the NYT can’t even figure out that their reporters are being manipulated by the Bush administration to support the war in Iraq.
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw: Sorry no pics, experiment fail. No frozen yogurt this time, just a yogurt smoothie, for some reason the yogurt just did not freeze, may be the blue berries were not cold enough. I has a sad.
Redshift
The idea that “people have lost trust in government” as the lesson of the teabaggers (and only since Obama was elected) is clearly the new wingnut attack meme; I’ve been seeing a lot of it. I think we need a better response to it than just “what the hell??!”
The “trust” meme seems to have several components. The first is, of course, that only the feeling of loss of trust by “real Muricans” (of whom the teabaggers are assumed to be representative) matters, and that their motivations for claiming the “don’t trust” government are valid at face value, and not because the party they don’t like is in power, they’re motivated by racism, etc.
The fact that people who are not self-identified conservatives may have been expressing a loss of trust in government during the Bush administration is of no consequence, and is not allowed to undermine this meme.
Finally, because they’ve decided this is news now, the only causes that are allowed to be discussed are recent events, and because they’re presumed to be sincere, the only causes that can be discussed are actions by the targets of their anger. The fact that one political party has been openly running for forty years on the idea that government action is evil and always wrong cannot be mentioned, nor can the fact that their allies in the media have been amplifying that idea in increasingly hysterical terms, and stating as fact that the government is planning to take their guns, indoctrinate their children, and have bureaucrats decide that they or their parents should die, and politicians and government officials should not be trusted if they say they aren’t.
Gee, it’s so hard to figure out why people might be less trusting of government…
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
I would think it would be self-explanatory. He himself talked about it at his news conference, though not in those exact words.
Again, this is something that was known but not much talked about. That’s behavior you expect from a famous bachelor athlete, after all. Point being, only children and adults not paying close attention would be surprised by this individual’s sense of sexual entitlement even after his marriage, though his family might rightly hope that he would do better.
You have your definition and I have mine.
By the way, I’m getting caught up in talking about Tiger’s personal life, though my point was supposed to be about the indignation of our journalistic and popular culture. As Matt Taibbi said, “when you have agents and hangers-on handing you money and naked women and Escalades from the age of 14 on, it’s bound to swell your head.” Why journos are shocked at the peccadillos of someone like Tiger and subsequently lose “trust” in him I don’t know, other than to speculate that they are simply pathetic people.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
I believe you when you say you’ve never watched a minute of golf, because “wholesome” is not a word one would apply to his on-course behavior. He’s notorious for cursing and smashing clubs into the ground, for instance.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Mark S.: They hold the purse strings, FOR EVERYTHING, and can make law on their own with a 2/3 majority vote, ie veto over ride. They could ban a single federal dime being spent on what they don’t want it be spent on. When it comes to appropriations, the US Congress power is plenary.
sukabi
@eemom: playing the “what if” game is pointless and a gigantic waste of time. Edwards did not get nominated, wasn’t even close. He wasn’t elected president, and never will be. If by chance he did get elected, he would have been promptly impeached by both parties and it would have had the same effect on the country as Clinton’s impeachment… NONE. Washington asshats had the vapors, but those are the only folks, would have played out the same for Edwards.
The one thing most people don’t get, and it’s fundamental: Politicians, sports “stars” and celebrities of all stripes are HUMAN and have the same HUMAN flaws as everyone else… which means they lie, cheat and steal just like 99.99999% of the population, they just do it with abandon and with very few consequences.
WereBear
@arguingwithsignposts: She’s getting big!
Big Ernie
Aside from the glaring omissions here, I am going to go along with the Edwards bashing. I know a guy who contributed a few hundred hard-earned to his campaign, and Edwards turned around and gave it to his girlfriend (100k +) to hold a camcorder. Yeah, that will make me think twice before writing a check for a candidate–I’ll stick to physical work in the campaign offices.
I seriously don’t see anything really heavy about Tiger. I think it’s unfair to lump him with the pos Edwards.
AhabTRuler
He would have lost even if he hadn’t been shtupping the ditz.
eemom
@sukabi:
those are some pretty brazen assumptions about how things would have played out for someone who is above the “what if game.”
And some pretty ridiculous generalizations about sweeping categories of people for someone who objects to “pointlessness.”
eemom
@AhabTRuler:
that is NOT THE POINT. The point is he was willing to risk it.
sukabi
@eemom: my point, pointless or not was and is, if you put your “faith” or whatever you want to call it in a celebrity or politician you are begging to be disappointed. They are “selling a product” and it has very little relationship to who they actually are as a person or what they actually believe. Edwards “sold” himself as “a humble, everyman”, and while he came from humble beginnings, what he was, was far from humble… and it wasn’t hard to figure out, if you looked beyond his own sales pitch.
sukabi
@eemom: and that goes to the type of person Edwards is… a very narcissistic, “entitled”, “the rules don’t apply to me” type of guy.
FlipYrWhig
@demo woman: @Yutsano: Yeah, true, Vitter is similarly bad — but Ensign is even worse. Vitter went to prostitutes. Ensign had an affair with a staffer _and paid off her and her husband to keep it quiet_. And he paid them off with his parents’ money, which is, honestly, rather emasculating, you’d think. And yet Ensign has barely had to defend himself. It’s ridiculous.
gopher2b
John Edwards embezzled campaign contributions to pay off his pregnant mistress. He’s about to be indicted for these crimes. He should not get a pass on this.
Mnemosyne
@gopher2b:
Neither should the people who lied us into war in Iraq … and yet the NYT gave them a pass by focusing on relatively petty crimes like Edwards’ and ignoring the really big reason why people don’t trust public institutions like the government.
Paying off your mistress with campaign money and invading another country are not the same thing, just as lying about sleeping around and lying about your product killing people are not the same thing even if both actions damage your brand.
potenta
@eemom : you’re right…don’t risk, don’t win :)
Elmwood
Toyota let people down, and the media latched onto the opportunity to bring it down a few pegs just because of its stellar quality reputation. There may be other motivations related to investments or money somewhere. Toyota’s quality control failures have cost some people their lives and that is serious, but where is the perspective. How many lives have been damaged by Toyota compared to: the Chinese milk and melamine; Ford Pinto and GM Chevette cars, GM windows that strangle kids. What of the faulty product from the NY Times and Washington Post that were supportive rather than critical of the run up to the Iraq war? Count the number of lives destroyed by the press, tv and radio, talking heads news and insipid politicians.
The functioning of our democracy depends on informed citizens and the media are instead misinforming the citizens through both omission and inaccuracy. The elections, tabulated by opaque electronic machines are untrustworthy and would not be acceptable to any informed people.
The Iraq war was begun as a profit engine and a political distraction and power tool. Iraq and Saddam were hardly the most deserving targets, but they were easy targets, already vilified and Iraq has lots of oil. The war has served its creators well.
Our Health care “system” kills tens of thousands of Americans each year through lack of coverage that boosts profits.
The resources of our nation and our planet are being sucked dry by a small percent of the population who intend to survive it’s destruction.
A useful media could accurately inform Americans about all the above issues in a week of front pages and TV special reports with graphs, retrospective video and real history.
Our media are like barkers at a carnival and we are just the marks with the money ambling in a daze of bright lights and loud noise. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Enjoy, pay up.
Just a few years ago, everyone got news from one of three networks and a couple newspapers. There was general common ground for discussion. Now the networks and papers are still there but they are propaganda tools. People can still get background facts and accurate information but they have to go hunting for it on the web. The facts about Iraq, Bush’s military history, wire tapping, general lawlessness, the financial-congressional ripoff, all are not part of the body of common knowledge for enough people.
If one TV network could run enough truth, background and facts it might show the rest up for what they are.
Then again maybe not, since bald faced lying and denials seem to have no consequences.