Ahem:
Washington Bullshit Watch
No one does it better than Mark Halperin. Every single thing he cites in his latest brain-dead critique is, I believe, tangibly false, and the moronic attempt to grab some pageviews by a counter-intuitive and utterly dumb analogy – Obama is like Bush, guys! Aren’t I clever? – is Beltway hackery at its worst.
Someone needs to fire up Shrill blog again.
cleek
if Halperin is a troll, the best course of action, short of asking me to write a pie filter for his blog, is to ignore him.
trolls, like Sarah Palin, live on attention – regardless of the attention’s polarity. starve them.
mr. whipple
Obama live in PA, on now, Cspan.
flukebucket
Amen brother.
Obama is counting on the intelligence of the American people and in the end I am afraid that will be what fucks him.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
OT
Sorry but this needs reporting as a small step for mankind and a giant leap toward Peak Wingnut.
.
Please disregard this comment and not let it hijack a new thread. God hijacked shit, too, also.
It’s rubber mallet time. Then a nice Cyanide toddy.
Remfin
Andrew Sullivan linked to the story.
You linked to Andrew Sullivan linking to the story.
You’re part of the problem!
If you’re going to pollute posts with links to this kind of material you should at least include the rel=”nofollow” element so they don’t get boosts to their Google Rank out of things like this.
feebog
Score at the end of halftime:
Sully:1 The Village: 0.
jeffreyw
Blue Jay is shrill.
dmsilev
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: So, how long will it be until Sarah Palin defends her infamous “slaying of the first-born” serial killing spree because, well, God did it as well?
-dms
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Since becoming a regular reader here a few months ago–a refugee from the poutrage-o-sphere–I’ve been reading Sullivan pretty regularly too, and I have to say I am favorably impressed. I liked this today:
I still want an apology on behalf of all us decadent fifth-columnists, but it’s nice to see a quasi-establishment type call out the Kaplan Daily Hiattt for what it is. Of course, the fact that he’s done so is probably what marginalized the former editor of TNR and The Atlantic from the respectable Green Rooms of Broderville
David
Halperin doing the difficult job of pointing out continuity between administrations.
Kryptik
@cleek:
Problem with that is, if we don’t pay attention, someone with a vested interest will. Ignoring Fox News doesn’t make it go away, because people are gonna watch it anyways. Ignoring Palin won’t make her go away, because there are folks who have an interest in seeing her and the talking points she forwards given time and exposure. Just like your common troll, there comes a point where it’s impossible for attention to be withdrawn wholesale. At that point, the only thing that can be done is brutal mockery and truth hammering to discredit the troll and expose it for what it is to the people too slow to have seen it beforehand.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
But the WaPo’s own Kurtz claims it’s a lefty rag that needs further conservative tilt! Who to believe?!
Bill E Pilgrim
Hey here’s something from the WAPO with the usual level of disingenuous right wing reasoning.
Jackson Diehl complains that Obama doesn’t have “friends” abroad, and uses as a typical example Nicolas Sarkozy who complained about Obama’s disarmament proposal saying “We live in a real world”.
Diehl concludes that there’s some mystery about this:
What Diehl doesn’t mention of course is this:
People in France hate the right wing Sarkozy, and they like Obama.
What’s the mystery?
(Putting this here because I screwed up the formatting on it in the last thread and it went immediately to “you aren’t allowed to edit” for some reason.)
Nellcote
The ACLU compares Prez Obama to Bush in a full page ad in the NYT today.
Maude
I was think about another tag:
Black Bush or Brown Bush
Mike E
@jeffreyw: Blue jay: Damn sparrows–get off my…HAWK! Cheezit!
GReynoldsCT00
Saw that headline on Memeorandum… didn’t want to give him anything by clicking through.
Paris
You would think that publishing a completely unsourced book full of anonymous rumors would disqualify a so called ‘journalist’ from being mentioned by any self respecting publication. But not in Washington.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
I really like this title of Sully’s. It’s simple straight forward and elegant with a bohemian splash to it. I might steal it and rename my outdated and neglected little blog.
scav
@Bill E Pilgrim: Forgive me if I’m taking as much pleasure in the tanking of Sarko as anything available in the U.S. I was in Languedoc for the election and it was eerie having to sit still and wonder what the hell had gotten into the water supply. And that was in a heavily Sego region.
Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions
One day I’m gonna ask TNC if, when they first met, Sully came out and said “Hi, I’m Andrew Sullivan and I believe our racial backgrounds mean I’m inherently smarter than you,” or if it was more subtle than that.
scav
@Nellcote: At least, from the point of view required by the ACLU interests, they can make a valid case.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Heard this morning Obama is brushing off Immigration Reform. Thank the lard, we will finally get a rational calm new debate.
Dave ain’t here man.
toujoursdan
Speaking of Ms. Palin, he revealed that she went to Soviet Canuckistan for healthcare to a Calgary audience:
CNEWS Canada
Brachiator
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
I’m pretty sure that in the original Hebrew, “engraved on the palms of my hands” best comes across as “use a Teleprompter.”
These goons are three steps away from reaching the Rapture.
geg6
@Nellcote:
Well, honestly, in terms of civil liberties, his policies have not really been significantly different than Bush’s, other than our troops and intelligence agencies haven’t be doing the actual torturing themselves (though I have no doubt that they are fine with other countries doing it to get the information we want). But there are still too many people held without charges and without any sort of ability to address their detention, they still refuse to cooperate with any investigations of detentions and detention methods as can be seen by their staunch defense of “state secrets,” they still support spying on Americans through the Internet and monitoring phone calls without so much as minimal just cause. I’m sure there are other things that the ACLU would be happy to lay out for us, but given the ACLU’s mission, I won’t criticize them for this. Especially since they, well, have a point.
Bill E Pilgrim
@scav: What you may realize, but many in the US don’t, is how hated Sarkozy is.
When his approval ratings were higher, say in the 50s or something, that doesn’t mean that the other 45% just had minor quibbles with his policies. They despise him. Many of them at least.
I’m talking about George W Bush levels, the same sort of posters, Web sites, and so on. Basically anyone you’d recognize as young, hipster, urban etc absolutely demonizes him and has from before he was elected.
How he got elected (someone will bring up) is a long story. We should understand though, after ending up with Bush.
geg6
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Personally, I wouldn’t vote for someone married to Carla Bruni for anything. She is the epitome of everything we all should HATE about Europeans.
Being married to that insipid, stupid bimbo should automatically bar him from office, IMHO.
carlos the dwarf
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Jim, that position isn’t going to make you many friends here. The majority faction here at BJ hates Sullivan. Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions is one example [speaking of which, really Bill? really? I read you on TNC’s blog and you’re way above comments like that.], but you’ll get a lot of people who still haven’t forgiven Sully for his Iraq War cheerleading.
gbear
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: Isn’t Sully just ripping off (or paying respects to?) Froomkin with that title?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@geg6: I liked his last wife, the one who refused to socialize with the Bush family at Walkers’ Point.
Citizen_X
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I (getting 11-dimensional here) got the impression that that’s calculated to bring the teabaggers out into the streets in full rabid froth, and to shore up hispanic support. Nothing like showing clear differences between the sides, y’know?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@gbear: could be, I don’t know. But I like it, whoever started it.
And Obama just now in HC speech
Fuck politics, we’re going to pass HCR
This is why I am a proud Obot. Chew on it wankers.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes, me too. Gotta like that in a woman. That and the fact that she never felt the need to inflict crappy Eurotrash music on the world. Which is just another thing to hate Carla Bruni for.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Citizen_X: Yes, it is calculated for that, I think you are right. Though the shit will hit the fan. The good news is It’ll likely pit the left against the right in the coming donnybrook, which will be loud, but shouldn’t be blue on blue. At least I’m hoping that’s the case.
Robertdsc-iphone
I don’t agree about Duncan & Geithner but Gates is definitely a star.
Nellcote
@toujoursdan:
Uh oh, LaPalin might be fibbing
“Palin claims that while living in Skagway her brother was burned and they took him to the town of Whitehorse, in Canada, for treatment. However in an article written in the Skagway News around May 0f 2007 (Using the guilty plea of the VECO executives as a reference point), Palin tells a completely story: Her brother burned his foot badly jumping through a fire, and her mother had to take him down to Juneau on the ferry to the hospital.”
gbear
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Yep, proud Obot here too. I was watching the CSPAN feed but it crashed for me about 10 minutes ago. Sounded like he was riding out a bit of heckling now and then. I loved how he was so specifically ranting about insurance company bullshit. He was naming names.
JohnR
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Thanks! That made me flash back to Big Bambu and from there to the guys in Yellowbeard (not great, but fun to watch). Who would have thought that Tommy would have produced a daughter as nice as Rae Dawn?
Bill E Pilgrim
@geg6: Hmm. Not entirely fair, she’s highly educated, speaks three languages, and has done quite well with foreign leaders and so on.
I would say she’s highly criticizable for being right wing, from family money, and most of all married to him, but not a reputation for being stupid in the least.
Uloborus
@geg6:
I would argue that his policies have been very, very different from Bush’s, or we wouldn’t have any Guantanamo detainees being tried in the states. His use of State Secrets is apparently also much different from Bush’s and more in line with the actual proper use of that privilege, but that’s more for lawyers to debate.
On the other hand, it’s exactly the ACLU’s job to go after him if his policies haven’t been enough different, especially for things like indefinite detention. I don’t buy ‘just like Bush’, but as far as I’m concerned, they can go right ahead pressuring him, especially in the courts. Heck, I’d love them to pressure him in the courts. By all means, let’s get those checks and balances going. I personally think he won’t be bothered at all, but whether he wants these powers taken away from him or not, it’s the right thing to do.
gbear
@Nellcote:
Imagine our astonishment…
Bill H
Omigod, Sully, go back to merely blockquoting others.
Michael D.
@Maude:
Having “Black Bush” appear every few posts would certainly up the traffic to this blog.
Sly
@toujoursdan:
Palin attained popularity as governor by increasing the dividends Alaskans receive from oil/gas royalties and getting more subsidies from the Federal government. Pledging to do these things during the campaign was a big reason how she became governor in the first place.
So it’s no surprise that she went to Canada for medical care. It’s socíalism (FUWP) that benefited her and her family. Grifters don’t make any greater ideological distinctions than that.
Sly
@toujoursdan:
Palin attained popularity as governor by increasing the dividends Alaskans receive from oil/gas royalties and getting more subsidies from the Federal government. Pledging to do these things during the campaign was a big reason how she became governor in the first place.
So it’s no surprise that she went to Canada for medical care. It’s socíalism (FUWP) that benefited her and her family. Grifters don’t make any greater ideological distinctions than that.
geg6
@Uloborus:
And this is exactly right. I want the ACLU to do what they do best, regardless of who the president is. I don’t trust any politicians, though Obama gets some slack from me, and I DO trust the ACLU, implicitly.
And I don’t think Obama feels any differently than I do about them. I’m sure he wants them to do their job, too. Despite my criticisms of Obama, I have no doubt that he values their work and that he wants the system of checks and balances, which seems to be almost completely snuffed out by the last decade or two, to be restored.
AkaDad
Obama sleeps in the the White House. He’s just like Bush!
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@Bill E Pilgrim: Didn’t he get elected because the Socialists still can’t get their shit together?
Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions
“Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions is one example [speaking of which, really Bill? really? I read you on TNC’s blog and you’re way above comments like that.]”
Look, the man not only pimped The Bell Curve relentlessly, but martyrs himself for doing so at almost every opportunity to do so, and did so as recently as a few weeks ago. If he’s going to throw his support behind the book as much as he has, then he probably deserves to be asked a tough question or two.
Bill Rutherford, Princeton Admissions
And no, I don’t hate Sully, but yes, a more substantive apology for being called a fifth columnist, a decadent coastal elite, being on the side of the enemy, etc. for holding the same position Sully himself now holds would be nice.
Sentient Puddle
I like how you can tell the commenters here who didn’t bother reading the blockquote and just assumed that something from Sully is necessarily inane.
Slightly related to the topic, Chuck Todd really got on my nerves this morning. He reported about a summit the White House will have to discuss NASA budgeting with people who are peeved that he cut manned space flight. He then discussed this with a correspondent (supposedly an expert, I think), and the entire time was spent on…how this will play in Florida.
Seriously guys? Nothing on why manned spaceflight was cut from the budget? Nothing on the f’real disagreement (I mean something beyond Bill Nelson bringing pork back home to his state)? No, the real story is how re-prioritizing the budget apparently gets voters pissed for no reason. Ugh.
kay
@toujoursdan:
It’s even more convoluted than that. She claimed the reverse initially: that she fled Canada for US health care.
“Palin has also told an alternate version of the story that had her family traveling south by ferry to Juneau from Skagway for treatment of her brother’s burned foot, rather than to Canada, according to a 2007 report posted by the Skagway News.”
She’s all messed up.
Redshirt
Yeah, I’m a diehard Obot, but I also will support anything and everything the ACLU does. They are pretty much the only group left, apparently, that actually understands the Constitution and acts to implement that understanding.
geg6
@Uloborus:
Well, since we don’t, I don’t really see how things have changed under Obama in this matter. And based on the reporting of Rahm trying to make deals with Graham to end any possibility of civilian trials and pressuring Holder to make legal decisions based on purely political reasoning, I don’t foresee us ever getting trials for those men.
I also know several attorneys who know more about the State Secrets stuff than I certainly do who do not see the distinction you make between Bush and Obama.
I’d have to say that my biggest disappointment with Obama has been his civil liberties record, which is abysmal. I certainly expected more from a constitutional expert. And I hope he remembers his class syllabus soon, so I can quit being pissed at him about this.
licensed to kill time
I just have to say “Palin” and “Skagway” in the same sentence is pretty funny.
Also, the fact that she pulls assorted stories out of her brain and reshuffles them to fit the talking point du jour is rather reminiscent of Reagan. I’m sure she’d be pleased to hear that, though it is hardly a compliment.
Uloborus
@geg6:
Man, this AGAIN. ‘It’s not going to happen.’ He’s scheduled, what, two dozen guys for civilian trials? Despite the fact that congress goes apeshit every time he makes a baby step towards closing Guantanamo? And incidentally, the military tribunals and reinstating habeas corpus? Yeah, Bush wouldn’t do any of those, either. And I’ve ‘heard’ a lot of stuff about what he’s going to do, like throw DADT under the bus and abandon Health Care and lord knows what all. The man is surrounded by more unsourced rumors and wild interpretations of innocuous announcements than any president I can remember.
And I’ve heard lawyers say he’s abusing state secrets. And I’ve heard lawyers say he’s using them in totally different ways than Bush is. This is exactly why we need the ACLU for stuff like this. They’ll force the courts to define what he can and can’t do with it. More power to them.
I’m not thrilled with his civil liberties record. I certainly consider it the low point of his presidency. I just tear my hair out with this ‘just like Bush’ analogy, because he’s not. No torture, he uses rendition in compliance with international law, he’s reinstated Habeas Corpus, and if he’s not trying to integrate the political prisoners Bush made a mess of into our justice system against incredible odds, he’s sure faking it well.
Dr. Morpheus
@scav:
Obot that I am, I have to agree with the ACLU on this. Obama needs to do the right thing here and not back down from civilian trials.
geg6
@Uloborus:
And man, with this shit AGAIN. I never once said he was “just like Bush.” What I said was that his civil liberties record is abysmal and the ACLU believes that nothing significant has changed. And this is all sadly true. I don’t hold Obama to account for Congress’ failures. I do, however, hold him to account for his own failures and the alleged backing down on civilian trials would be/is a massive failure. Until there are actual trials or they actually do wimp out and have military tribunals, I withhold judgment but will be watching with a jaundiced eye. I’m no State Secrets expert, but the people I know who are say that his stance on this has the exact same effect as Bush’s, even if the reasoning is slightly different. And they say that both Obama and Bush are full of shit on this.
All I want the man to do is what he promised and what his area of expertise should drive him to do. All I want anyone here to do is read what I actually write before claiming I said something I never said.
burnspbesq
My ACLU contributions at work. Me likee.
Redshirt
I think one of Sully’s stunt stand in’s may have staged a palace coup. This new Sully who’s writing today is fired up about the despicable media we have. He just lambasted Kristol, for all the right reasons.
liberty60
@Uloborus:
This.
I am as opposed to Obama’s civil rights record as Greenwald, but the tactic of saying “He disappointed me on this issue, so he is EXACTLY THE SAME as Bush/ Hitler/ Etc.” is as stoopid as it sounds.
But worse that stupid- it breeds a sort of unearned worldliness, a sophistication on the cheap, where with a wave of the hand, you can dismiss everything that he has done.
Demanding that politicians adhere religiously to an entire slate of issues or risk total excommunication, is not starry eyed idealism; it actually is a form of sly triangulation, every bit as corrupt and cynical as anything by Joe Lieberman.
Because ultimately, it can’t possibly lead anywhere but to the same destination.
Darkmoth
@geg6:
“ACLU believes that nothing significant has changed”
I realize this is a nuanced point, but I see a real difference between “nothing significant has changed” and “we want a better record on civil liberties”. A rapist is very very different from someone who doesn’t prosecute that rapist. There are myriad reasons why someone might not prosecute – laziness, fear, ruthless political calculation – but none of them rise to the level of actually raping someone. Or in this case, actually instituting a policy of torture. I am dismayed that we’ve allowed ourselves to diminish the real evil of torture by equating it to what is at worst, a lack of intestinal fortitude. Being a wuss is now equivalent to drowning people.
I know the ACLU is using a rhetorical device to strengthen it’s point, but it seems that bit by bit we are substituting rhetorical devices for substantive debate.
Chuck Butcher
@Darkmoth:
Halperin’s piece included a bunch of debatable opinions about actions that are in debate.
The ACLU finds not cleaning up the mess and in fact continuing aspects of it unacceptable. I agree. Your analogy about rapists is stupid and inapplicable. They are continuing actions that should not be continued, scarcely the same thing as not prosecuting someone else. Yes, my inclination is to have charges brought against BushCo. A lack of that fits your analogy. But then I’m also real familiar with politicians acting out of expediency rather than principle. Being used to it doesn’t mean not scorching them for doing it – unlike say, you.
Barack Obama is a politician not a white knight worthy of uncritical admiration. I’ve never met or known anyone worthy of that. Around here, to a large extent, that is aiding and abetting the enemy. Since I helped BO in the Primaries and the General; I’d say that means I thought he was the best of the lot, still do – he also is an asshole sometimes. So?
Uloborus
@geg6:
Quoting from you:
‘Well, honestly, in terms of civil liberties, his policies have not really been significantly different than Bush’s.’
If that doesn’t mean you think he’s behaving just like Bush here, I apologize, but that’s what I read that made me think you do. That’s still how it reads to me, actually. But misunderstandings happen, and other things you said weren’t nearly that extreme.
I may even be misreading mild amounts of snark at someone else.
Darkmoth
@Chuck Butcher:
Not prosecuting torture is one of the core criticisms of Obama’s administration, I fail to see how it’s “scarcely the same thing”. It is one of the main things, unless you are following some different civil rights debate. You can rephrase it as “not cleaning up the mess”, but that is still different than making the mess. Is that really so controversial?
Furthermore, unless you are claiming that Obama has re-instated the torture policy, then the cessation of torture is a “significant thing”. Unless you don’t view torture as “significant”.
As I said, i get the rhetorical underpinnings. But lets be adult briefly and recognize that there is a huge difference.
henqiguai
Entirely too many things in this world for which we should all be paying attention, and in the process, memories fade. But isn’t the administration currently supporting at least five investigations into the previous administration’s activities with regards to torture ? And if that memory is correct, is the desire for immediate relief stronger than, perhaps, a thorough investigation and hopefully a tight case presented to a Court ?
This administration is just into its second year, and as has been pointed out ad nauseum, people are seemingly demanding everything be fixed instantaneously and that is just idiotic (yeah, I cleaned that up). But maybe I’m misunderstanding the positions being put forth.
Chuck Butcher
@Darkmoth:
Torture, I mentioned that, but that has nothing to do with indefinite detention, official secrets crap in court, civilian trials…
You selectively choose an issue to bolster your bullshit and then poke at me about being adult? Whatever…
Sammy
I guess if you work on Wall Street, just cashed in annother bonus, and see no sign of any meaningful regulation, Geithner is a true star.