Thanks to John and my friend DougJ, I’m going to be posting my barely literate musings here. I’ll write a little more about myself in a later post, but I want to start with one of the strangest things I’ve heard in, well, perhaps forever.
Eric Massa, my Congressman for about 12 more hours, had his Dick Nixon 1962 moment yesterday on a radio show he co-hosts on Sundays (audio here). Highlights:
- House leadership inspired one of his aides to make an ethics complaint so they could get him to resign, all because they needed to lower the bar to get HCR passed by one vote (Massa’s resignation makes the number needed to pass 216 instead of 217).
- Rumors that he’s teh gay in the Navy are all misunderstandings of an incident where Massa walked in on a crewmate masturbating in his bunk.
- Steny Hoyer lied about Massa’s ethics investigation.
- A naked Rahm Emanuel confronted Massa in the showers of the House gym, and Massa and he also had a loud, expletive-filled argument over the phone about his “No” vote on HCR.
The incident that Massa believes sparked the investigation happened at a wedding reception for one of his staff members. When being razzed about possibly banging one of the bridesmaids he had just danced with, Massa “tousled the hair” of one of his male staffers and said “What I really ought to be doing is fucking you.”
It’s a strange end to a promising career, but those of us who have been watching him over the years always knew he had something like this in him.
Update: Just to be clear, by “always had something like this in him”, I meant a crazypants rant, not the harassment stuff.
Rahm left his post at the white house, ran down Pennsylvania Ave, stripped naked and chased Massa around a congressional shower over Massa’s no vote on HCR. And to think people say Rahm hasn’t put it all on the line (pun intended) to pass HCR.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Welcome to the BJ mosh pit! Wear armor, lotsa armor. ;)
Since he’s not my guy I am in the ‘wait until the next dozen pairs of shoes drop’ mode as I watch this mess unfold from the wings. Interesting start though, let’s see what the wingers grasp onto as the narrative for his leaving. That’s the direction the M$M will take.
This is good news for John McCain. ;)
@Mike Kay: I believe I have read some story about Rahm mentioning as an aside that he uses the House gym. Whatever.
I am just so sick and tired of these idiots and their stupid sexual harrassment crap. Yes, I know he’s innocent till proven guilty but jeezus wtf don’t you understand about behaving in an appropriate way at all times because you are a public official. Hoyer comes across as a total sleazeball but I don’t see why he would lie about Massa when they will need Massa beyond the HCR stuff.
I remember someone close to Massa’s losing 2006 bid) telling me how Massa had sadly imploded shortly before election day: his campaign manager quit and filed suit against him. Bad enough; worse to be followed by Massa’s bizarro decision to counter-sue said campaign manager. Days before election day. Massa lost by a few points.
It was a crazy story, which I’d thought was indicative of (a) a hotheaded candidate, who (b) posed no threat to anyone, else a campaign manager wouldn’t have felt free to malign him publicly given the obvious trust issues that would normally attach when he tried to get another job.
First of all, HCR isn’t being passed via reconciliation. It’s being passed under regular order with a few issues being ironed out via reconciliation.
Second, the goopers have used reconciliation over and over again to pass Bush’s trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich, and no one said shit.
Third, people who say if RahmBama only leaned on individual congressmen, they could get anything passed, only need to look to this testimony about how Rahm worked Massa over and he still refused to vote for the House version of HCR, even though it included a public option.
This is why it’s so hard to pass HCR — people like Massa, not because Rahm didn’t beat Massa or Congress sufficiently with a rubber hose.
Why oh why
Imagine that, a politician telling (some of) the truth; of course, he is on his way out.
But anybody still thinks Rahm Emanuel is not a strangely powerful and divisive White House chief of staff?
I just have to say this: as someone whose job is to oversee investigations of discrimination charges, including sexual harassment, I can tell you that a single drunken comment like this, made under these circumstances, does NOT rise to the level required to established a prima facie case of sexual harassment. Since the House and the White House is made up of many lawyers, one would assume they understand this. This is nothing more than a bullshit tempest in a teapot designed to cover their asses as they escort him out of their way.
Plus his recurrent cancer already helped him make up his mind about quitting 2 days before this came up, Way to smear a decent man. (And by “decent”, I don’t mean “saintly”.)
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal): Thanks, I’m glad to be here.
@vernonlee: I’m unfortunately well-acquainted with the details of Massa’s 2006 mess with his campaign manager. At the time, because the manager was gay, and Massa fired him because of stuff that happened with him and some young male staff, I assumed the issue was that Massa was a homophobe. Doesn’t look like that anymore.
To hell with the Bush Tax cuts. Health care issues have already been addressed through a similar process: The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
Why is he so opposed to health care reform?
Oh, forget it. I don’t think I care.
It will be a freaking miracle if this passes. This bill seems to inspire crazed panic among its opponents. You’d think they were proposing cutting off health care to 30 million, instead of expanding it. I’ve never seen anything like it.
What’s today’s charge against Rahm Emanuel, anyway? I’m not clear on that. He was naked while showering and yelled at Massa?
Let’s just hope Reagan stays dead or this could be an interesting election year.
Bill E Pilgrim
Okay this combined so many images that didn’t need evoking, ever.
I will say that’s devotion to self-abuse way beyond the age when most have given it up, to say the least.
Just wondering….something like what, exactly?
@Why oh why: Oh brother. Another conspiracy theorist who sees Rahm in his soup.
I swear, Massa voted AGAINST the public option, and then Massa sexually harassed his own staffer in front of cameras, and yet you blame the boogie man, Rahm. What’s wrong with you people?
If anything, this proves Rahm was fighting tooth and nail to pass HCR. If anything, you should be pissed at Massa for voting against the public option.
@Bill E Pilgrim: Yeah, the image was even worse with that unfortunate typo. I fixed it.
@Mike Kay: Massa sexually harassed a staff member on camera? You sure?
Did Rahm have “THUG LIFE” tattooed across his chest?
@Riggsveda: This is a fireable offense in any company.
I can’t go up to a co-worker or subordinate at a party, tussle her hair and say “I should be fucking you”, and expect to keep my job.
Perhaps you’ve been watching too much “Mad Men” but this isn’t the early knuckle dragging 1960s.
And if he’s such a good guy, why did he vote against the public option (the holy grail of the left wing blogosphere).
Fuck this “Mike Kay” asshole, that’s what I have to say this morning. That one seems just the kind of scum needed to put this blog over the edge into full wankerdom. Congrats!
I saw that thread our “ally” and “friend” Cole put up bashing Glen Greenwald of all people, on behalf of Rahm no less (who gives a fig, oh yeah, COLE) and Mike Kay was a toasty mash of fucking slime all the way through. Yes there were others, but that fucktard sure stood out. I call foul.
And new poster mrmix whatever, since this blog wants so badly to piss in my cornflakes, what the fuck does this mean: ‘those of us who have been watching him over the years always knew he had something like this in him.’
What, that Massa was a faggit, or that he’s a lying phony? I already don’t like you … which means I’m coming around a lot more.
Oh, just so you don’t get the wrong impression Mike Kay wanker asshole winger … GOOD MORNING! You came here nice and early to pollute this blog, and I applaud you! May all your buddies flock here too … I support anything you do to ruin this blog I once really enjoyed. Post your innermost “thoughts” often and converse freely from the bottom of your soul.
According to Massa there were a lot of cameras filming him, but perhaps not when he told the staffer, “I really ought to be doing is fucking you”. But he does say the table was full of staffers, who presumably collaborated the incident.
A bit late to make any difference, I’d think. In fact, it could even be thought of as taking coals to Newcastle.
…I kill me.
@former_friend: Oh, tisk, tisk, such a dainty flower.
Um, former_friend, sounds to me like you’re the one who needs to go back to bed and try to get up on the right side of it the next time…..
@Mike Kay: You are confusing apples and oranges. Any reason short of a discriminatory one can be a fireable offense for an employer not under a CBA…most states are “at-will” employment states. I am talking about the legal standard for establishing sexual harassment. And it is not here.
Perhaps it is; I am not a lawyer, so I really can’t say.
But when I hear “made a pass,” I think of a hand on a leg (or worse) in a situation where the person is cornered. I don’t think of inappropriate comments.
And not that this really excuses his behavior if it in fact happened, in my short time in the working world, I’ve seen a lot that is questionable to me that doesn’t necessarily bother the person involved. In the end, isn’t it only harassment if the person whom he made the comment to is bothered? I’m asking this not as a question to really excuse what Massa may or may not have done but to wonder what lines he may have crossed.
How about from the employer’s prospective.
Say I work at the public library. And during a lunch, I come up to a co-worker or subordinate after a couple of beers and I stroke her hair and say, “I really ought to be doing is fucking you”. Don’t you think the library would be within it’s rights to fire me, especially if it was collaborated?
Jesus. That sounds like the masturbatory fantasy of a submissive gay Republican.
The hair ruffling and comment would be wildly inappropriate when said during a presentation to a client at the office.
At a wedding reception, said to men only; I would not think actionable.
Unless it was a “last straw” kind of thing, and then it’s not an incident, it’s a pattern.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
No double entendre intended, of course.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but how does the sex of the people involved matter?
@arguingwithsignposts: Thanks for the catch.
Ooh, the self-awareness is weak in this one.
Oh! Golly! Not the Great and Powerful Greenwald! John Cole should “watch” his “mouth”, or Greenwald might get totally wasted and start ranting incoherently in the comment section here!
(Oops, too late.)
Brick Oven Bill
Al Sharpton, Democrat, teaches us, from the pulpit at Kean College:
“White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires…. We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.”
It’s Astronomy Al.
But nonetheless Al provides us an excellent example of the homophobia that many members of our society face on a daily basis. Let this be a lesson. And thank you Representative Massa for your public service.
@Chyron HR: And yet they accuse us of hero worship.
For my sins, I listened to the whole 95-minute rant. Massa comes across as a barroom-orator/closet-case/narcissist who calls Rahm “son of the devil’s spawn” and passive-aggressively begs for national attention and a district groundswell to rescind his resignation.
There was a time when the House Dems needed him for things beyond HCR, but now the only one who needs him is Bill O’Reilly — with whom he’ll have hooked up by lunchtime.
mistermix, 5 PM can’t get here soon enough.
That was one world-class meltdown by Massa. There is no way that guy is playing with a full deck.
And oh, I have that much less respect for him since he survived cancer, won a congressional seat as a Dem, then votes against a bill that would enable people with pre-existing conditions, you know, like cancer survivors, to get coverage. What a sumbag.
@Douglas: As described, it was the kind of comment (they were all bachelors…) that a man would make when ladies are not present.
But the core of it, heading back to the Navy incident(!) makes me think it’s a deep closet situation.
It’s pretty nasty to accuse his staffer of filing a complaint based on being “inspired” by House leadership. I assume he means “coerced” but is too chicken to say so, or has nothing to back that up.
So we’re going with “inspired”, which is impossible to prove or disprove.
He’s, um, handling this badly. I don’t know what happened, but this may not be the most professional, grown-up approach to a staffer’s complaint. Whatever else he is, he’s a lousy boss.
Welcome! Just to let you know, we have no manners here. Don’t take it personally.
I live in Illinois, and I have to say, this Massa guy is making Rod Blagojevich look like a rank amateur. And this is his second implosion? Seriously, how “promising” a career could this guy have had if he was this much of a buffoon?
ETA: Love the title.
Has anyone gone to the GOS yet? His suggestion that reconciliation is teh evil but affirming that Rahm is behind everything might have caused it to divide by zero.
@4tehlulz: It looks like the same mixed bag that it always does. Of course, I pick and choose which stories and diaries to read, and almost never read the comments anymore.
Brick Oven Bill
So Rahm, the ballerina, chooses naked showers as the venue in which to confront political opponents. This is news.
We should note that the leader of the Nazi SA was a short homosexual.
Not like there is anything wrong with that.
I’m not fond of the attacks on the two people who complained.
One was “inspired” by House leadership, and the other was “caught” masturbating. Neither was really offended, and they’re both liars.
Massa’s a class act, I must say. Way to deal respectfully with subordinates,”Sir”.
Brick Oven Bill:
Do you typically belittle people by feminizing them, BOB?
That says so much about your attitude towards women.
And how exactly does it follow that that should be noted? Do explain, please.
Why one might think you were afraid of gay people – what’s that called, a phobia? – that you have to equate them with Nazis.
I think you mean “corroborated the incident.”
@Brick Oven Bill:
idiot. You do know Mitch McConnell is gay. He’s your leader.
Good morning and fuck off.
Now where’s my coffee?
Brick Oven Bill
I am not the one whose mom made me dress up and dance in the ballet JGabriel. It must have been quite the experience for a young man however.
“Röhm had been one of the most prominent members of the party’s “socialist” faction. This group took the words “Sozialistische” and “Arbeiter” (“worker”) in the party’s name literally. They largely rejected capitalism (which they associated with Jews) and pushed for nationalisation of major industrial firms, expanded worker control, confiscation and redistribution of the estates of the old aristocracy and social equality. Röhm spoke of a “second revolution” against “reactionaries” (the National Socialist label for conservatives), as the National Socialists had previously dealt with the Communists and Socialists.”
Pigs & Spiders
Brick Oven Bill is bringing teh funny today.
Dunno, maybe this is a culture gap thing, but it seemed to me a thing anyone might have said – either to someone they’re in a relationship with (making it harmless flirting) or someone with whom they obviously kidding around (which is clear to everyone involved and isn’t considered inappropriate by the receiver of the remark – goodnatured jokes between friends). Or lastly, sexual harrassment. Gender doesn’t enter into it.
(I assume Massa was trying for the 2nd and ended up doing the 3rd. )
@kay: Agreed. The guy just is not ready for prime time.
@JGabriel: Next thing you know, BOB’ll be claiming the Nazi SA leader was Jewish too.
Pigs & Spiders:
No, not really.
Pigs & Spiders
@JGabriel: Well, I mean, if you take him seriously, he’s not. I can’t take him seriously ever, let alone at 9am.
Democrats . . . enforcing party discipline: AWK-ward!
@kay: One of the things that has bothered me about this mess is that I seriously doubt that Massa’s version is the whole complaint. In and of itself, what he says would be actionable, but overall would have led to just a minor slap on the wrist at best. In general, the seriousness is determined by the repetitive nature of the harassment. That’s why I think there’s more to it than what Massa is trying to pre-emptively spin it.
Pigs & Spiders
Sully is upset that Rahm didn’t confront him naked in the shower:
IMO Being confronted in the showers by fully clothed Rahm Emanuel would’ve been far more disquieting. Either way, welcome, I’m sure you’ll have some fun.
@Douglas: Judging from Massa’s picture online, he’s of the generation where you get points for not saying certain things in front of women.
At least, to me, that’s why he emphasized the sex of the people he said it to.
But the whole thing doesn’t have its dots connected yet, so it doesn’t make much sense at this point.
A morning thread called Rahm Touched Me Here?
You know where this is going.
And, yes, BoB should fuck off. Also.
@Why oh why: How does this show Rahm is all powerful and divisive, excatly?
Good morning, All.
It is nice to see that all you puppies are in good fighting form this morning. Enjoy.
I have a day off – hooray! Gonna try to Do Nothing as much as possible.
This dood sounds a tad unbalanced.
I politely disagreed with him and laid out my case. He disagreed, and presented his case. I was hardly bashing him.
Cripes, you delicate flower.
there’s a ghey and/or pen1s joke in there somewheres…
@Pigs & Spiders: Now that I think about it, Kristen Wiig could totally own a Bob rant on SNL.
@mistermix – “show me on the doll…” is a tag for the ages, if that isn’t the title of your full time blog, you should consider it.
Diane Rehm touched on this a bit on her Friday news round up show. It was in the context of if Dems were repeating the self-immolating scandals that killed the GOP in 06.
The reporter responded that the Dems were handling their issues far better. As an example Massa was bought up.
The reporter said the staffer went to Hoyer and the Leader told the staffer that he had 48 hours to take it to the Ethics Committee or Hoyer would do it himself.
That’s another angle to the story.
@JGabriel: I always thought BOB was a closet case. Just note his obsession with Barney Frank.
Thanks. I want to clarify that before we go off into the weeds on what’s an “actionable” claim of sexual harassment, as far as a lawsuit goes.
This is an ethics complaint, under House rules, not a sexual harassment claim for damages.
“Inspired” bothers me, because staffer going to leadership and complaining, and leadership saying “we have a process for that” could equal “inspired”.
I am a gay guy working at a small business owned by a gay couple and employing more than a few other queer folk of both genders.
At times the repartee is sharp and travels at light speed, but saying anything like, “What I really ought to be doing is fucking you.” would just bring everything to a dead silent halt.
There are so many ways that is so wrong. It sounds, semantically, like a threat – if said between people who have no history of intimacy. While the soon to be ex federal employee did not mean it that way, he should have known better.
@kay: When a person goes to the leadership for a concern, doesn’t that mean the person is already complaining? “Inspired” would make sense if, the leadership heard a rumor then went to the staffer and nudged him to file an official complaint.
I’m a boss and Massa’s comment, even in an off-hours, social setting, is inappropriate and actionable in so many ways. I don’t know him, but good riddance. If he’s ignoring managerial principals in this manner, I suspect he’s ignoring them in many more and his staff is probably miserable.
I elect to never socialize with my staff. It’s much easier to keep the lines between employer and employee clearly defined.
I must object to anyone equating male ballet dancing with being gay. I know nothing about Rahm, but I do know that my middle son, a former ballet dancer, is completely straight and very sought after by the young ladies. In fact, he used to comment how nice it was to be a straight guy in the constant company of many beautiful, athletic young women. There may be gay ballet dancers, just as there are gay people in every field, but it is not a given. Anyone who makes such an assumption is simply an ignoramus. In addition, my son had played fullback on the football team prior to his ballet experience, and he said that the ballet was a much tougher workout than football. Straight or gay, these are not people to be taken lightly.
The Moar You Know
@Anya: Yeah, Bob’s just disappointed Rahm will never look at him twice.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Good catch…lol! I was waiting to see if anyone would ‘grasp it’. ;)
former_friend? Maybe acquaintance or customer but definitely not a friend. Probably Just Some Fuckhead. ;)
Why do people like to come in here and issue blanket proclamations? It’s as if they think their decree carries weight or the like with anonymous, faceless people (and puppets!) that hang out here. On any given day two (or more) people who were in total agreement the day before are currently trying to verbally strangle each other. The next day it’s as if it never happened because a new brawl has started.
I do notice that the ones who like to say this are generally irregulars or first time posters. Puppets too, lotsa puppets! Probably Rahm fucking with us…
@Josie: I absolutely concur, and I’ve known more than my fair share of professional ballet dancers (worked in entertainment, etc.).
However, I have to point out that there is a legitimate argument that professional ballet often destroys young women’s bodies – sometimes irreparably (N.B.: professional football can do the same to young men). There are, of course, questions of choice and agency involved, naturally, and I don’t mean to start a ballet flame war, but it’s a point of view, sure.
Me, three. That’s the only way the resignation makes a lot of sense.
And where are my manners? Welcome, Sir Mix! And be not afraid. Or at least, not too afraid.
How about Massa focuses on his own (admitted) role in all this instead of casting around for villains?
Then using it to agitate against health care reform, and adopt this “I’m a victim” whine? He’s a real prince.
There’s history here. When Foley was finally held to account, the inquiry was into whether the complaints had been taken seriously, and addressed. That’s always the inquiry in a workplace, because shit happens. The next question is “what did you do about it?” Always. Massa doesn’t dispute it happened. Then we go to the next question.
It wasn’t about him, ultimately.
@Keith G: I am in agreement with you. I am just not understanding what he means by inspired.
@kay: That “always a victim” narcissism is my most hated quality in people. It’s why I don’t like Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin, and even Bill Clinton. It’s also why I’m an O-bot.
Massa sounds sociopathic to me.
Me too. I think it harms real victims, incidentally. He says something bone-headed and insulting, and we all have to apologize.
I hate when people adopt it “on my behalf”, like Hillary’s friends did.
“Please. Don’t help me”, I want to say.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he say he wasn’t running because he was gravely ill? Which is it? Gravely ill OR driven out by a naked Rahm Emanual?
@kay: Maybe naked Rahm made him gravely ill.
It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
@Anya: He (Massa) is meaning, “I am the one getting fucked!” ironically.
I feel much worse about Rangel. We need his liberal feisty tendencies. I wished he had learned that this is no longer the 1970s and living large makes one a larger target. Too bad.
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
The same thing happened with Dennis G’s first couple of posts. I think that whenever John adds a new top level poster, the new TLP’s “friends” show up here, carrying whatever grudges/feuds/insanity they’ve been cultivating for years in other parts of the blogosphere. Then they get pelted with rotten cabbages, etc. and after getting a good dose of old fashioned Balloon-Juice style hospitality they leave, usually permanently.
Think of it as the BJ equivalent of going thru the delousing shed at Ellis Island and getting a quick name change gratis. Come in the back door as Frankenstein, leave via the front door at Froonkensteen, and you’re all good.
Welcome aboard mistermix. Hope you brought pet pics. You might need 'em.
Why not both?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@kay: I always wonder if HRC watched Geraldine Ferraro use Hillary’s campaign to get back on TV and thought “who pulled this asshole out of freezer to come and make me look bad?”
But this might damage his chances of making the cast of next season’s The Apprentice.
I think we can expect a(n attempted) big publicity tour on the cable news networks the next couple months.
@Why oh why:
But anybody still thinks Rahm Emanuel is not a strangely powerful and divisive White House chief of staff?
Only one person has to be satisfied with Rahm Emanuel’s job performance in order for him to remain in place. You are not that person. I am not that person, either. Unlike you, I choose not to obsess over things I can’t control.
Same here. It’s one of the most refreshing things about Obama’s entire administration. Maybe I’ve subconsciously cast all examples from my memory, but I can’t recall a single member of his team that played the victim game. And FSM knows they’ve had plenty of opportunities.
This might be the biggest difference between Obama’s team and the Clinton and McCain campaigns.
@Pigs & Spiders:
Andrew is delusional if he thinks Rahm can run roughshod over Holder.
Welcome, mistermix! You give good post :)
I totally wouldn’t mind being confronted in the shower by a naked Rahm Emanuel. Whatever his other failings, the man is hot.
Re Massa: There are 435 Representatives, and most are elected on the strength of their gabbery and social plausibility. In a sample population that size, with the outsize ego and sense of entitlement anyone who runs for office has to have, the odds of having a few members a few degress or more off plumb isn’t even a 50-50 bet; it’s a sure thing.
Throw in the whole sex mess (where for people of Massa’s generation even thinking you might be gay is traumatic enough, much less other people thinking you’re gay), the harassment mess (you’re not supposed to be flirty with anyone, much less people the same gender you are); and the socializing with subordinates issue on top of that… and honestly, sometimes I’m amazed we don’t have more reps go off the rails in such offensive-yet-entertaining fashion.
I have a little sympathy for the guy. Less than I would have had if he’d been supporting HCR, though.
Wait, I want to be sure of what Massa is alleging. Is he saying that there was this wedding incident on New Year’s Eve, and his staffer stewed about it for 3 months, and then the staffer conspired with House Democratic leadership and Rahm Emanuel to sandbag Massa with the complaint now, so he wouldn’t be a No vote on HCR?
What I particularly don’t understand is that, if you find the charges embarrassing enough to resign over, in order that you spare your family the humiliation, why would you start talking about them in the media? It seems like there were two logical options to react to anything like what Massa says happened: stay and fight and let the chips fall where they may (to get back at Rahm et al), or leave quickly and quietly (to keep a lid on the story). I don’t see what this combination accomplishes. He just sounds like a nut.
“Obsessing over things we can’t control” sums up the overwhelming majority of internet political writing. Or, perhaps, most of human existence.
He had a promising career in what? Sit-com? Stand-up maybe more likely, especially in those venues where the audience is encouraged to throw things. I swear, it’s as though wack-job blithering “news”-worthy stupidity is a goal now instead of a mere side-effect.
Do we get to start talking about Rahm Derangement Syndrome now that we have people complaining that he was mean to a guy who voted against healthcare reform?
I had to pause and catch my breath after this part. LOL
You know, one of the frontpages (Meteorblades?) At DKos was EXTREMELY DISAPPROVING of the “show me on the doll” meme. He felt it was trivializing and disrespectful of a very serious and traumatic issue.
Just an FYI.
@Keith G: I actually was hoping Rangel would get some sense and resign. His seat is a solidly democratic so it would have been better for the party if he retired.
I think the “salty old sailor” needs to STFU. He keeps making outrageous comments If he is such a supporter of universal health care why didn’t he vote for the house bill?
@Elise: I want me some naked Rahm.
Just over one month, it seems…if that long. Hoyer said he became aware of the allegation in early February.
How am I supposed to take Massa seriously?
What is he talking about in this big, garbled rant? Emanual was naked in the shower, so that’s sort of like saying something gross to your employee at a wedding?
Shouldn’t he at least make sense?
I can’t believe he’s weighing in on health care. Maybe he should take a deep breath and calm down first. Give it a week, get back to us when you’re coherent.
I don’t feel like we have time for these self-indulgent forays into crazy. Maybe later.
@kay: I’m sure he just got distracted and flustered by being confronted with a naked Rahm. Who wouldn’t?! I think my focus would certainly be elsewhere!
But yeah, Massa is just trying to distract everyone from the fact that he sexually harassed an employee. He’s desperate to change the direction of the conversation away from his unethical behavior and find a way to blame Rahm instead – it fits with the netroots narrative over at GOS and FDL, and those were the folks who bought into his “I voted no because it didn’t have Single Payer” schtick – despite the fact that he lives in one of the most conservative NY districts.
If Rahm actually bitched him out over his vote against HCR, while nude, I may have to start liking him. As for the rest, just leave, Massa.
I keep saying this, but I feel like it’s true. The reason that people hate Congress is because they’re always talking about themselves. This bickering and “look at me and my issues” comes off as self-indulgent, not “principled”.
It’s true across the board, whether it’s the Cornhusker Kickback or Bart Stupak yammering about abortion, or this…individual.
Health care was negotiated. Democrats drafted it. If you’re going to vote “no”, fine. The time for lodging complaints ended. If your “idea” didn’t get in there, it’s because you’re a member of a body, a “Congress” and not a little potentate.
DDay points out that if Massa’s vote was so central to everything, why is the White House lobbying Stupak?
That’s just juvenile male pecking order stuff in many cases. Apparently Massa never grew up if he thinks he can talk that way to his staff.
Well, he has a career in blogging, anyway.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I have a hard time believing that’s all there is to this story. Some kid in his twenties was teasing the old guy for being all Chris Matthewsish with a bridesmaid, the old guy takes a shot back, booze is involved on all sides, and a (presumably) politically ambitious smart ass is so hurt he files a formal ethics complaint? Nah.
The serious and traumatic issue of
RahmEmmanuel Goldstein’s all-encompassing villainy?
Brick Oven Bill:
A bit late, but wow, you really don’t get it do you? Or, more likely, you’re just being disingenuous, but on the off chance that it’s the former:
A ballerina is a female ballet dancer. By calling Rahm a “ballerina”, whether he had ballet lessons or not, you are attempting to belittle him by feminizing him. Ipso facto, you’ve got a low opinion of women.
And male ballet dancers too, apparently. I think you should go up to one and call him a “ballerina” to his face. You can probably get fodder for two or three posts, at least, from the shit-kicking you’d get — those guys are usually in pretty good shape.
Yeah. Gotta agree. Those ballet dancers have tougher workouts than NFL players. Don’t believe me? Ask Lynn Swann, Pro Football Hall of Famer and Super Bowl X MVP. He should know since he did both.
@SGEW: I would agree with you on the legitimate argument as to the unhealthy requirements for ballerinas. But, that is a digression here.
@Anya: Ditto this.
Welcome, mistermix! Thanks for an insider’s perspective. I had no idea WTF Massa was trying to say with his rant. I still don’t, but it’s nice to get some of the details cleared up (such as this is not the first time he’s gone off the rails). He needs to just go. Now. And use his insurance to get the mental help he so desperately needs.
Small steps: perhaps all BOB comments can have the “reply” button eliminated, and then we’ll move to the reply and the original comment being eliminated as well.
I realize you guys probably give less than a fuck and are more worried about whatever contest you guys are in as to who can be more of a dick, but if you knew anything about MB’s personal history, you could tell why he finds joking about sex crimes to be kinda unfunny.
@NobodySpecial: All right, I don’t know anything about Meteor Blades except that he (I didn’t even know his gender) contributes to DKos. I was just making a quip reversing what was trivial and what was important, obviously (I hope) not saying anything about sexual abuse. But I’m sure I could have been more careful about such things, so, that’s on me, and I’m sorry.
I have no idea what is going on with Massa, but I think it’s well established that one can be gay and a homophobe at the same time.
No need to apologize to me. It just gets tiring seeing the same posters over and over trying to drag this site down into some ConservaDem version of /b/ chan.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Whatever. None of us were there. I don’t do gossip. Give me verifiable facts, and even then, don’t jump to conclusions for me. I can do that on my own.
Additionally, and also too, moreover, I don’t do sex police. If a man can’t take that comment from another man without going to the teacher and telling on him, then maybe the quoted line was appropriate after all. I have taken that kind of crap from many other males, and I never had to ask for any help to deal with it.
If we strip away all the sex police gossip here, what we are left with is some language we used to call swearing. So are now at the Language Police level? Jesus wept. I need something more substantial. Did Massa get his male staffer pregnant? Now that would be worth looking into.
Oh and hey look at that.
Don BelAqua: So if your son came to you and told you his boss said to him, in front of others, “I should be fucking you” you would slap down your son for not being able to take a joke? Wow.
No, don’t bother to answer that. ThisDid Massa get his male staffer pregnant? Now that would be worth looking into tells me all I need to know.
My adult son would never come to me with that. Like me, he has been handling his own interpersonal issues since he was in high school.
I don’t take crap from anybody. Most guys really don’t. And I don’t go to the teacher when somebody gives me crap, I handle it myself. It’s a guy thing. I like being a guy, for a lot of reasons like that. If I can’t handle that remark, I have no business going to a party where alcohol is being consumed. People do dumb things when they are drunk.
Like writing that post of yours, for example.
Massa is apparently a bit of a jerk. But I would rather deal with a jerk than with a weenie.
And no, you piece of shit, I would never slap my son. I spanked him one time in his entire life, and the incident left us both committed to seing that it never happened again.
Indeed . . .
@DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio: So, the bit about “language we used to call swearing” you refer to here is, itself, gossip– gossip from a biased source no less. The only source we have for the claim that the gist of the ethics complaint was over the wedding incident Massa describes– or that the wedding incident even happened– is Massa himself. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
If we stick to verifiable facts, all we know is:
– The House Ethics panel is investigating Massa, for something. They issued a statement saying so (but as I understand did not say what the investigation was about).
– As soon as the investigation started, Massa resigned. (In, if I understand the way the ethics committee works, a way that will prevent the specific content of the ethics complaint from ever being fully revealed.)
It seems to me there are only two ways to interpret these facts, and neither reflects well on Massa. Either one, Massa is telling the truth and the ethics inquiry is about him making one (by his own admission) inappropriate comment at a wedding. Or two, Massa is not telling the truth (would Massa even specifically know what the ethics inquiry is about?) and the inquiry is about something else. In case one, Massa’s resignation seems to make no sense at all. Massa resigned to avoid… what? There’s no guarantee at all the ethics committee would have even done anything; the ethics committee investigates people all the time and usually doesn’t ultimately act on the investigation. Even in the worst case scenario the ethics committee would have only admonished him. But Massa doesn’t seem bothered by the details of the story being known (since in this scenario, he’s already told us all the details of his own free will), and doesn’t seem ashamed of what he says he did– he seems to be almost bragging about it (he’s a salty old sailor). So Massa seems to have resigned randomly, surely irresponsibly. His resignation helps health care in the short term, but also creates a high probability his seat will be thrown to the Republicans. I’m not saying this scenario must be false, but this scenario also makes Massa seem kind of crazy. And that’s scenario one, scenario two means Massa actually did something far worse than his wedding story he tells, he resigned to keep the full details from ever coming to light, pushed his own version of the story onto the media, and then to cover himself ran to Glenn Beck and smeared the Democrats with some elaborate story about them trumping up sexual harassment charges to pass their eeevil health care bill.
I don’t know what your point is.
Mine is that we really don’t know all the facts, and until we do, I am not jumping to any conclusions.
As for the famous “harassment” remark, a guy goes to a party where people are drinking and his boss makes a rude remark to him. Wow. Shocking. But really, who gives a damn?
I have worked for guys who talk like Massa at the office. Worse. There is one simple way to deal with them: Stand up to them. There are many ways to do this, but for me, the basically in your face “get back to me when you stop acting and talking like a jerk” approach works fairly well. That usually stops the crap right there. Any idea that their boss status entitles them to talk to me that way is dispensed with instantly. I have walked out of the room on a boss who was being verbally abusive, and amazingly, the abuse pretty much ended right there. Once they know that this highhanded tactic doesn’t work, they will usually stop it. I even did this with a boss who (legally) carried a gun just to intimidate people. And fear of losing my job is no factor. Jobs were scarce when I stood up to the boss with the gun, I didn’t care. I’d rather be unemployed than be pushed around by some asshole. I don’t have a lot of respect for an adult who whines that his boss was rude to him at a party after letting him do it. Or for the boss either, for that matter.
If Massa “did something worse” then when the facts come out, I will process them. Until then I am not speculating about them. Life is hard enough without cluttering it up with old lady gossip.
Screw all these people, Massa included, with their stories and their gossip and their whining. That’s my two cents worth. But meanwhile I am not getting worked up about it, it’s a tempest in a teapot.
Well, this is part of what I was trying to point out. You say you will not jump to conclusions, but you also seem to be jumping to the conclusion that Massa’s story (which, again, as I understand hasn’t been corroborated?) about the wedding both occurred, occurred as he described it, and has something to do with the ethics complaint. There’s a contradiction here. If speculation does not matter, then neither does Massa’s story.
I don’t think going to HR is ever an inappropriate response. If Massa is telling the truth, that appears to be essentially what the staffer in question did.
Honestly you sound pretty worked up already.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
MB expressed disapproval about that? Then all is well since disagreements with MB usually means that someone else was right about something.
MB is one of the many reasons I will never post at Kos again. Fuck the pc police, especially when they haven’t got a single funny bone in their body and can’t let a joke go by because someone somewhere would be offended by it. People like that suck the humor right out of anything unless they can put their stamp of approval on it.
Every word you said is wrong.
I’m not jumping to any conclusion. I am saying that if the story is as portrayed on this thread, then who cares? Whether that story is the correct one or not, who knows? We don’t know. Can you not read?
I do. Not only inappropriate, but ineffective. But in this case, the thing supposedly happened at a wedding. Who the fuck goes to HR over something their boss said at a wedding? Answer that your own way, you know what my answer is.
You haven’t seen me worked up, compadre.
mistermix, now I see why “we always knew he had a crazypants rant in him.” This YouTube showed up on Fox today at 12:34 PM and on Ben Smith’s page two hours later. From a documentary on the vets who ran in 2006, “Taking the Hill”: DCCC chair Rahm’s visit to advise Massa to tone down the anger. Ooo-wee.
What’s Your Name: Oh it’s one of those “I’m too macho and so’s my son”. Nevermind. And I would never, ever, EVER, assume you hit your son. If you explode verbally at him the way you have over everyone on this thread — he knows not to challenge you. Alpha dog and all that.