Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Republicans don’t trust women.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Bark louder, little dog.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

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Reader Interactions

98Comments

  1. 1.

    elmo

    Serious question: Once Lincoln Davis’s staffer has told me in no uncertain terms that Davis does not support the bill, does it really do any further good to call again? “Hello staffer, has Congressman Davis changed his mind?”

  2. 2.

    aimai

    You know, elmo, I think it does do some good. At least I’m trying to say that to myself when I call Senator Brown’s office. Its clear if Kucinich flips that every vote can flip.

    aimai

  4. 4.

    jibeaux

    @elmo:

    You could try saying, is the good Congressman REALLY less in touch with reality than Dennis Kucinich, or does he just want to appear that way to voters?

  5. 5.

    Joe Beese

    Kucinich should be announcing his “reluctant” support for the Senate bill any minute now.

    I wonder what he got for selling out. Probably no more than a package of honey-roasted peanuts from Air Force One.

  6. 6.

    Tim F.

    @elmo: You would be amazed how many readers report that over the space of weeks their Congressperson told them no, no, no, no, no, no, maybe. Keep at it.

  7. 7.

    Stroszek

    The corporate media is pulling out all the stops. AP is running a “fact check” headline stating that “premiums will rise under Obama plan.” The underlying story is that, shocker, medical costs will continue to rise generally despite health care reform… though cost controls will eventually make them rise more slowly than expected.

    This is even more brazen than WaPo’s “Pelosi to Pass HCR without Vote” horse dung from yesterday.

  8. 8.

    mistermix

    If it looks like this thing is going to pass, then I’ll bet that the wafflers and maybes are going to vote Yes. I think we’re seeing some of that movement now.

    Pelosi is whipping hard, and her (good) argument is going to be that Democrats are going to be hit with HCR whether or not it passes, and if it does pass, each Democratic Member’s vote is pretty irrelevant (since the attack messaging will be “Democrats did this”).

    Hang together or hang separately.

  9. 9.

    JasonF

    Here’s a thing of beauty: MSNBC was talking to Rep. Shadegg when Rep. Kucinich started to make his announcement, so Dan Shuster cut Shadegg off and switched the feed over to Kucinich. I love the symbolism of that.

  14. 14.

    KDP

    Kucinich – I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, but I’ll vote Yes.

    Let it count now for passage of the bill; hopefully in the direction of comprehensive reform.

  15. 15.

    Yossarian

    To Elmo’s question, I agree with aimai. Keep at it. The way to handle it so that you make your opinion heard without coming off as an ass is to say something like “I realize Rep. Davis has expressed his intent to oppose the health care bill, but I’m a constituent who thinks this bill will expand coverage and reduce costs in a needed way and I’d respectfully urge him to keep an open mind on the issue. Upon further reflection I think he’ll see the merits of the bill and vote yes.” That’s extremely polite, highfalutin’ language, but it may actually register.

  19. 19.

    Folderol and Ephemera

    You would be amazed how many readers report that over the space of weeks their Congressperson told them no, no, no, no, no, no, maybe.

    . . .

    Kucinich – I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, but I’ll vote Yes.

    I smell a pattern here, maybe?

  20. 20.

    gogol's wife

    When I called Rosa De Lauro’s office the other day, her staffer had a smile in her voice. I took that as a good sign. It hasn’t happened before.

  21. 21.

    Mike Kay

    WOW!

    Dennis is now coming out with a strong defense of Obama and the bill, and slapping down the culture of republican fear

  27. 27.

    joes527

    Of course we’ll still hate us some Dennis Kucinich.

    He doesn’t fit into the narrative, and that pisses folks around here off. (We *loves* us some narrative)

    The fact that he does the right thing when it matters is just another reason to hate him. Just when we got our blog posts all writtn about how he is worse than cthulhu, he messes it up by doing this.

    The fucker.

  28. 28.

    Lolis

    @Joe Beese:

    So Grijalva, Woolsey, Sanders, Franken, and now, Kucinich must all be on your lists of “sell outs.” Is there anyone left?

    Doesn’t it tell you something when all of the most liberal people in the House and Senate support this bill? I guess nobody is really a liberal but you.

  30. 30.

    soonergrunt

    I’m sure somebody has already noted this, or will have by the time I hit the )submit( button, but Talking Points Memo is reporting that Kucinich just had a press conference where he announced his ‘yes’ vote.

  32. 32.

    Will

    @joes527:

    I’m glad he’s doing the right thing on healthcare. Up until today, it appeared he wasn’t going to. This is the most important vote he will likely ever make in his career. Good for Dennis for making the right decision.

  33. 33.

    elmo

    Okay. Thanks for all the encouragement; I’ll keep calling. For whatever reason, Bart Gordon’s staff are really pleasant, but my own Rep? They sound bored and tired of it, and it’s really a freakin’ chore to talk to them. Ugh.

    But I’ll call again today at lunch. One more question. Call all of his offices, or just DC?

  36. 36.

    The Main Gauche of Mild Reason

    Just heard Kucinich’s statement on NPR. He’s a definite yes.

  37. 37.

    Joe Beese

    @Lolis:

    No, there’s no one left.

    And what it tells me that “the most liberal people” on Capitol Hill are some piss-poor liberals.

  39. 39.

    beltane

    @Mike Kay: Holy crap has that place become one big den of crazy. This comment was my favorite:

    Obama and Rahm and Kos and MoveOn have now destroyed the only Progressive voice left on the hill, and he got nothing for it. Heartbreaking!

  40. 40.

    JAHILL10

    Rep. K doing the right thing makes me happy. Now maybe I can get some work done today instead of checking the whip count tallies every five minutes.

  41. 41.

    SGEW

    Breaking: Politician speaks and acts politically about political policy: Differing positions referenced, disingenuous language used, motivations ultimately unclear.

    Shocked, shocked.

  43. 43.

    Napoleon

    By the way, here in the Cleveland area advertising for and against HCR is at a level you would expect right before an election.

  44. 44.

    aimai

    I think its interesting–the part I’ve seen reported of Kucinich’s speech–where he spoke of the compassion (I think he meant sympathy/respect) he has for Obama as the guy who has to make actual decisions because he’s actually in power. Something that has been missing from Kucinich and Stupak’s arguments (oddly enough, from two different sides of the so called debate) is the inevitability of compromise to get to desired policy ends. Both Kucinich and Stupak have, up until now, acted as if their votes were totally context free: they pursued a policy that was totally unresponsive to reality and governance.

    I wanted lots of things from Obama and the Dems that they weren’t able to deliver–and I still think we could have gotten them (perhaps) with better strategic choices earlier in the game. But there’s no doubt that at this point in the legislative situation and cycle *this bill* is the best bill we can get and Obama and the Dems are pulling out all the stops to get it. That Stupak is continuing to obstruct and Kucinich is voting for it is just a sign that some people really do have principles based on sincere care for those in need and others don’t. Its not a question of having principles, or not, as the FDL’ers seem to think. Its a question of whether when someone is drowning you throw them a rope because you can–or whether you stand on the side and pontificate about how much better it would be if you had a rowboat and could save more people.

    aimai

  46. 46.

    jibeaux

    @Joe Beese:

    It’s sad, you know, because the health care reform plans that exist in their heads would be so much totally awesomer than this one, and I don’t know why they all think they have to vote for this just because, like, it could get a majority vote. I mean, you have to be true to your principled plans that exist in your head in order to be a real liberal. Actually, since every piece of legislation that exists has some sort of crap or earmark or compromise in it, I don’t know why any real liberal would vote for anything, you know?

  47. 47.

    Admiral_Komack

    @mr. whipple:

    -I think Dennis caved when the President confided to Dennis that he didn’t know if Rahm could restrain his mighty phallus of doom.

  48. 48.

    Mike Kay

    And I don’t what to hear any Firebagger bash our friend Dennis.

    Dennis stands on principal, damn it!

  49. 49.

    jibeaux

    Obama and Rahm and Kos and MoveOn have now destroyed the only Progressive voice

    Progressive. You keep using that word….

  51. 51.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    @aimai: Well said. And now that the leadership and the Administration have stopped negotiating with Stupak and gone to the individual members they must know they have the votes (or it is the only way to get the votes). The Democratic leader who deserves most of the credit here is Speaker Pelosi. She got a bill passed with a PO and has done a great job of making sure this thing is now on the brink of passing (albeit without a PO, but I don’t blame her for that).

  52. 52.

    gwangung

    I wanted lots of things from Obama and the Dems that they weren’t able to deliver—and I still think we could have gotten them (perhaps) with better strategic choices earlier in the game. But there’s no doubt that at this point in the legislative situation and cycle this bill is the best bill we can get and Obama and the Dems are pulling out all the stops to get it.

    I think there’s some debate to be had on the first sentence (see Nate Silver’s gaming of alternative strategies). But I think the latter is very important as well. Fight for best, but accept better–because that means you can fight for best from a stronger ground later on.

  53. 53.

    joes527

    @Will: Actually, this switch makes me nervous. My read of Dennis was that he was going to vote no in every scenario where his vote didn’t matter. What he intended to do if his vote did matter was going to be an interesting question, but I expected him to keep it to himself right to the vote.

    The fact that DK has been deployed as a rah-rah supporter suggest to me that the whip count is short and the leadership is trying to build some momentum. It might work.

    Watching eleventy dimensional chess from this dimension is a real drag

  57. 57.

    Michael D.

    Hmmm, I called Congressman John Lewis’s office. I know he supports HCR, but I thought I would call and say “thanks.” The gentleman who answered the phone seemed kinda, “Huh? Why are you calling…thanks though.”

    And that was the end.

    Maybe I mis-read.

  58. 58.

    Ash Can

    he got nothing for it

    If these cretins really believe this, they need to hand in their Political Junkie Club membership cards and decoder rings. In return for this vote and the $16k of donations (if those yahoos can be believed) from the Purists, Kucinich will rake in hundreds large in re-election campaign funds, not to mention seeing Air Force One around his neighborhood again. Politics ain’t beanbag, kids.

  59. 59.

    Leelee for Obama

    Just sent a thank you to his Congressional website and think it would be a great idea for all of us who thank him to do that. Dennis is gonna catch major shitstorms for this, and he needs to know some of us appreciate it.

  60. 60.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    @gwangung:

    Fight for best, but accept better—because that means you can fight for best from a stronger ground later on.

    Precisely. If this bill passes we are one step closer to single payer. The next battle is over the Public Option. It may not happen until next year but it is coming.

  61. 61.

    Will

    @joes527:

    My read of Dennis was that he was going to vote no in every scenario where his vote didn’t matter. What he intended to do if his vote did matter was going to be an interesting question, but I expected him to keep it to himself right to the vote.

    The fact that DK has been deployed as a rah-rah supporter suggest to me that the whip count is short and the leadership is trying to build some momentum. It might work.

    I have to agree. I assumed we wouldn’t know from him until the very end. The fact that he is coming out probably means he realized they needed momentum coming from a big switch like his. The numbers are still scary.

  62. 62.

    Leelee for Obama

    Politics ain’t beanbag, kids.

    And to quote my favorite West Wing guy, Leo McGarry: “we play ALL nine innings here.” It’s important that people know what you stand for. It’s equally important they know what you won’t stand for. And the status quo in health care shouldn’t be stood for. FULL STOP.

  65. 65.

    cintibud

    Had a hard time getting through to Steve Driehaus office but finally was able to talk to a staffer. I’ve called 5-6 times and each time the answer was non-commital, but this time I got something more.

    The Staffer reported that Driehaus could not accept the bill as currently written due to the abortion language. I expressed very strongly my feelings that 1) This was a side issue that had no relevance to the bill 2) There was a release from Catholic scholars reporting that the current bill did not change the status quo 3) Mr. Driehaus will have a very tough fight in Nov if he votes yes, but if he votes with John Boehner, Michele Backmann, and Jean Schmidt AGAINST Obama he will be blown out in Nov because he will lose not just my support, but the support of many democrats in his district.

    The staffer seemed to be very understanding and said he would pass my message on. However this seems to confirm that at this point Driehaus is still one of the Stupak people.

    If he votes No I swear I will do something I never thought I’d ever do – vote for the jerk Steve Chabot. I can justify that since in that case Driehaus would lose big anyway. I’d want to emphasize that the base here will not support traitors and send a message to other local pols who think they can screw us with impunity.

  66. 66.

    Joe Beese

    @Ash Can:

    If Dennis thinks Obama is going to do shit for him down the road, he really is crazy.

    Now that Team Hope has wrung from him from what they required, they’ll dispose of him like a used Kleenex.

  67. 67.

    Mike Kay

    So sad. The FDL thugs are just bashing the crap outta poor Dennis. Why just yesterday, they were denouncing such ad hominem attacks on Dennis.

    Que Sera, Sera,
    Whatever will be, will be
    The future’s not ours, to see
    Que Sera, Sera
    What will be, will be.

  70. 70.

    gwangung

    If Dennis thinks Obama is going to do shit for him down the road, he really is crazy.

    You’re so cute when you babble.

  73. 73.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    Michael Moore is going to be on the Diane Rehm Show right now. Should be an interesting show after Moore published a public letter thanking DK for standing strong against the current Senate bill.

  74. 74.

    aimai

    Dennis switching doesn’t make me any more nervous than I already was. The count was incredibly close and every vote clearly mattered from the get go. Switching a no vote to a yes was always going to be important.

    I’d like to encourage people to call Joseph Cao, if you are in his district. He struck me as a very principled person–he originally bucked his party on this vote–and I think he’s a very humane one. I know that the supposed sticking point is the Stupak/abortion one but I believe that he’s the kind of person who would consider himself obligated to listen to his own constituents and to opposing views.

    Every.Single.Vote.Counts.

    aimai

  75. 75.

    cathaireverywhere

    Called Congressman Costa’s office. He is not my Rep, but is in the next district over and represented part of my area when he was in the state government. The staff member I spoke to seemed glad to speak to someone who was not frothing at the mouth and we agreed that all of the crazies don’t have a clue what is in the bill and will, in fact, love it once it becomes law. I have also contacted my Repub Rising Star, Kevin Mc Carthy a couple of times, just so I could say I did, but felt the time was wasted….

  76. 76.

    WereBear

    Like many here, I was more than a tad upset at the pre-emptive compromises going in. I thought negotiation meant you go in with Public Option AND Rainbow Ponies, and let the opposition pry them from you.

    Must mean I’m not a high level negotiator!

    However, it took less than an hour for me to go: I just want a bill. It’s like getting a house; that’s the hurdle, and then you can paint the living room purple and strip off the hideous bathroom wallpaper.

    Seems to me the Republicans would do something like this: “We want 50% off taxes for rich people. Oh, you object to that? We’ll only get 25%?”

    Republicans wouldn’t stomp off and say “50% or nuthin’.” They’d grab while the getting is good.

    So should we.

  77. 77.

    Sentient Puddle

    @joes527: I don’t entirely agree with your assessment. We’ve known since a week or so after Scott Brown was elected that it was going to be tough for the House to set aside their egos and pass the damn bill. Whether or not Kucinich came out in favor today, the vote’s going to be tight. In my mind, the only real difference is that we now know we got one extra vote.

    And in any case, game’s still not over.

  78. 78.

    cintibud

    I should also add that when I asked the staffer for Driehaus if they were getting a lot of “Vote NO!” calls he said yes, but also that they received a lot of calls of support as well, so everyone keep calling!

  79. 79.

    Mary G

    I just called my Republican congress-critter (Ken Calvert – CA 44) and gave a hostile young man good old polite what-for about being on the wrong side of history. I urged him to tell the member to be brave and daring and vote yes on the healthcare bill.

    He started off with “don’t you want us to start over and do it right?” and recited every other talking point on Frank Luntz’s list. I calmly but thoroughly explained why I thought that was all total bull.

    Then I told him that I especially hated the post card they sent out promising to make bio-identical drug patents shorter with Pharma’s logo right on it as the single biggest hypocritical lie I have ever been told personally by a politician.

    I thought it would be a waste of time but I have to say I enjoyed it tremendously. He was so surly and nasty that I am beginning to allow myself a little hope that it may happen after all. Maybe.

  81. 81.

    Tattoosydney

    @Mike Kay:

    Tears of the Clowns

    Oh. Heavens. I haven’t spent much time at Firedoglake, but it’s just like Healthcareis44 over there.

    ETA – no, after checking, Hillaryis44 is still much scarier.

  82. 82.

    Tim in SF

    Pelosi is my rep, Boxer and Feinstein are my Senators.

    Feinstein is also a “yes” but I feel she could be pulled back to “maybe” so I’ve called her a few times.

    But Pelosi or Boxer? I don’t see the point in calling the other two who are squarely in our corner.

  83. 83.

    soonergrunt

    Well, I’m glad this is happening, but none of the changes will take place soon enough to help me and mine. I just found out like 5 minutes ago that my contract was not renewed as a cost-cutting move. My last day is March 31. I have to find a job right quick.

  84. 84.

    Mnemosyne

    @aimai:

    I’m kind of surprised that the Democrats aren’t trying to recruit Cao to switch parties. He got elected from a heavily Democratic district (you know, the one where the Dem rep was keeping cash in his freezer) and he does seem to vote with the Dems on important issues. IIRC, he voted “yes” on the stimulus, too.

  85. 85.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    Matheson is my rep, and I just now called – took three tries to get through, which is very unusual. I hope they’re getting lots of support calls. I can make a case for that in my head – he’s not the sort of guy you’d think you’d need to call to oppose it. I have a hard time believing he’ll come through, but I did call and was polite but emphatic about requesting his support.

  89. 89.

    Leelee for Obama

    @soonergrunt: Good luck with the search, soonergrunt. Is this a military contract thing, or your job here at home that’s not renewing? Either way, it barks needing to find a job ASAP, but if they’re letting you out of your military contract, that’s one big weight off your shoulders.

  90. 90.

    soonergrunt

    First, thanks to all for your support and encouragement.
    @Leelee for Obama: well, I retired from the National Guard last month, but since it’s a reserve retirement, I don’t get benefits until I’m 60, so not until 2030. My health insurance was Tricare Reserve Select, and Tricare and DEERS haven’t gotten the machinery in place for the new Tricare Reserve Retired program that the Democratic congress mandated last year so I lost that health insurance. Now my health insurance through my civilian job is going away when my job does. My wife took the bare minimum plan at her work because she had to take insurance from them (Tricare is MUCH better) and the coverage we can get from them is pathetic for what it will cost for the whole family.
    My current job is as an IT contractor on Tinker Air Force Base. The government non-renewed the contract as a cost-cutting move.

  91. 91.

    Lizzy L

    My Congressperson is George Miller (D-CA), who is totally for the bill. I plan to call his office to say Thanks. Best I can do.

  92. 92.

    Leelee for Obama

    @soonergrunt: I missed that you retired. I’m sorry you’re getting cut at Tinker, that had to be a good gig for you. As I said before, good luck and I hope something breaks for you quickly. It seems that an IT person with military experience should be able to get something, but this ain’t regular times. Can you get help with COBRA subsidies at least?

  93. 93.

    Jackie

    @Tim in SF: You call to say “atta girl, I got your back”. Plus if you are on the phone there is a nutcase who can’t get through to harass them. win win.

  94. 94.

    Will

    Someone more clever than I needs to set up a parody site identical to FDL, calling out the traitors FDR, LBJ, MLK, etc., for selling us all out on the Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Civil Rights legislation. It would be a hoot! You could just replace Dennis’ name with one of these icons in any one of the hundreds of hateful comments being left over at FDL today.

  95. 95.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    Someone more clever than I needs to set up a parody site identical to FDL

    FDL is already that.

  96. 96.

    soonergrunt

    @Leelee for Obama:
    Well, we got certificates of credible coverage (whatever those are) when Tricare dropped us. My wife has insurance through her job, but they won’t let us change the plan. We can add beneficiaries with those certificates, but we can’t get a better plan till option period rolls around next November.

  98. 98.

    Brett

    Matheson has said he might be a “maybe”? I’ll believe it when I see it (and I’m from his district).

    Then again, odds are that Matheson will get shuffled into a very democratic and possibly liberal district if Utah gets the long-desired 4th congressional seat. Perhaps he’s covering the bases, in order to prevent a possible primary challenge if/when that happens.

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