Open Thread by Tim F| March 18, 20104:33 pm| 113 CommentsThis post is in: Open ThreadsFacebookTweetEmailAlmost beer o’clock. Chat about whatever.
Or something equally enjoyable…
The end of the NOVA game was on CBS. Robert Morris really made a statement about their basketball team.
Murray State is now leading Vandy by one with a minute left.
Disc’o’clock in my case. Getting the practice rounds in while the weather’s good… the tournament rounds this weekend are going to be shit.
Still an hour until beer o’clock for me. I hate you too.
Beer o’clock. Thank God. This day has been total shit.
Tim, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for being such a great BJ whip throughout this process. We all know it’s not over yet (72 hours, bitchez!), but you really have done yeoman’s work. You truly rock and I’d like to thank you for that.
@geg6: Amen. A true community organizer.
In case anyone missed it downstairs Bart Gorton is now a yes according to twitter.
The Grand Panjandrum
Its always beer o’clock somewhere.
Indeed. While so many have done nothing but complain, you got people to get involved. Great job!
@Sentient Puddle: Stop being a little Central Time bitch.
I have a question. I’ve read multiple reports from multiple sources today saying that various pro-life representatives have been consulting with their priests and other clergy regarding their health care vote. Apparently you have to wade through the frocks to get around on the Hill lately
I probably read that five different times before it occurred to me that this is really fucked up.
If these were Islamic legislators consulting their imams on how to legislate, do you think folks would not be treating this as an acceptable, matter-of-course way to make decisions?
Does church/state separation come into play in any way here? I remember reading that some people were scared to vote for JFK because they were afraid he’d take his marching orders from the pope. What ever happened with that?
Sir, even though I cannot forgive you for your beer o’clock happening sooner than mine, I will pull out an unopened bottle in my cube and raise it to you.
First buzzer beater, got to love the tourney!!
@geg6: Seconded, or thirded. Thanks, Tim.
I chime in with the rest of the Central Time bitchez. I’m thirsty.
I’ve also got pounds and pounds of pork at home, waiting to be picked off a roast at a time. I was going to save both of my rolled loin roasts with crackling for special occasions, but they’re sure sounding good. . .
@geg6: Agreed! I have new gray hairs from the whole HCR debate. It feels like the ’08 campaign redux.
@geg6: Yes. Thanks Tim.
@Chat Noir: No kiddin’. Sunday does sort of feel like it’s going to be an election day. For wonks, at least.
Haven’t a clue where Murray St. is located, but Vandy is in hell rite now. What a finny!
My pick of Murray State over Vandy pays off *happydance*. Sadly, I cannot enjoy an adult beverage till I get back later from the kidlet’s karate classes.
The Grand Panjandrum
Well, no Lehigh v. Robert Morris in the championship game this year.
Have tried for an hour or so to call my Congressman, John Boccieri (D-OH). His Capitol Hill line is consistently busy, and his local office isn’t picking up. I think the undecideds are hearing it from the public.
So ADL has gone after Petraeus’ testimony; Spencer Ackerman has the story.
The assumptions Gen. Petraeus presented to the Senate Armed Services Committee wrongly attribute “insufficient progress” in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and “a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel” as significantly impeding the U.S. military mission in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan and in dealing with the Iranian influences in the region. It is that much more of a concern to hear this coming from such a great American patriot and hero.
The General’s assertions lead to the illusory conclusion that if only there was a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the U.S. could successfully complete its mission in the region.
Gen. Petraeus has simply erred in linking the challenges faced by the U.S. and coalition forces in the region to a solution of the Israeli-Arab conflict, and blaming extremist activities on the absence of peace and the perceived U.S. favoritism for Israel. This linkage is dangerous and counterproductive.
Whenever the Israeli-Arab conflict is made a focal point, Israel comes to be seen as the problem. If only Israel would stop settlements, if only Israel would talk with Hamas, if only Israel would make concessions on refugees, if only it would share Jerusalem, everything in the region would then fall into line.
@geg6: Adding my thanks. Without Tim’s prodding, I’d really be too depressed by the whole thing to participate.
Kennedys don’t take their marching orders from the Pope or his bishops, but Republicans (and Bart Stupak) seem to have no problem doing so. Then again, they are the theocrat party.
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Correct or as we used to say in the Royal Navy “the sun is over the yard arm, especially when you use the Australian all purpose moveable yard arm”
So there is no favoritism on the part of the US government towards Israel?
Murray State!! That just un-screwed what Notre Dame did to my bracket.
Well, no, I don’t really think it does, or not in the way you’re thinking. I know why it drives people crazy, and it bugs me too, but the idea is that religious people are allowed to have political opinions too, and that they are allowed to try to influence legislators and support or not support them, or promise to get them voters if they vote the way they please, the same way anyone else can. If congresscritters consulted with union bosses about what SEIU wants to see done, and with health care professionals about their concerns, but were somehow prohibited from consulting with priests if they wanted to talk to priests, that would actually violate First Amendment jurisprudence in my view, because the state is not supposed to be hostile to religion or endorsing of religion, but neutral. People sometimes talk about a wall between church and state, but the extreme version of that wall would not allow a fire department to go put out a fire at a church.
@JenJen: Well, it does improve my chances on getting the Butler win.
@Scott P.: I called mine, at MoveOn’s urging, a few days ago. They took my name. My Congressman (Gary Peters) is a definite yes, so I was just trying to counterbalance the phone calls he must be getting from the right wing crazies in the district.
Our district went from a safe red to a solid blue this past election, and from a congressman who would have been a definite no to one who is a definite yes. Elections do have consequences.
@Morbo: Wait, someone else picked Butler to win the whole thing?
My coin flips may not have had the desired results…
Vanderbilt and Notre Dame = total fail
I haz a sad over Vandy loss. :(
BTW I ran across Kona Brewing’s Pipeline Porter which is quite delicious. Try it if you get a chance.
@Sentient Puddle: N… no, have no fear of that.
@jibeaux: True, but churches shouldn’t be politically active if they want to be tax exempt. If organizations which work for my political goals have to pay taxes, so should churches which meddle in state affairs.
If individuals want to express their beliefs and act on them, fine. If organizations do, then they have to play by the same rules.
And, FWIW, I can’t imagine that the general response would be the same if it were a bunch of imams up on Capitol Hill trying to influence our legislators. Only the correct sorts of religions can do so with public approbation.
@The Grand Panjandrum:
DID YOU SEE THAT I WROTE AN ENTIRE POST AROUND YOUR EXCHANGE WITH SEN. SHAHEEN?!?
I put up a link in the last OT, but I did something wrong, but then asiangrrl came to my rescue, but you weren’t there anymore anyway, SO HERE’S THE CORRECT LINK ONE MORE TIME!!
Senator Jeanne Shaheen talks about the US-Israeli relationship and Israeli-Palestinian peace.
Odd, my clock say 3 past bong o’clock.
Have republicans made a march-madness-themed criticism of HCR yet? I haven’t seen one. What’s taking so long?
I have yet to register my delight over the new tagline, so I shall do so forthwith.
I am most delighted with the new tagline! Tickled pink, in fact!
@dr. luba: Gary Peters is my rep, too. I mentioned in a couple of past threads that my husband and I met him last summer when we were in DC on vacay. Stopped by his office to voice our support for HCR and the staffer told us the Congressman was in and that he could chat with us. He was very cordial and appreciated us stopping by. Then his staffer gave us passes to the House gallery. Needless to say, nerd that I am, I was quite thrilled.
I’ve called his office several times to reiterate my and my husband’s support for HCR.
I think the key is that we don’t talk about it; McCain got really pissed off over that testimony and if this is the line coming out of the Pentagon from Gates, Petraeus, and Mullen then ADL and AIPAC are going to have a harder case to make. Especially since everyone IS reaffirming their commitment to the state of Israel.
This reforms the issue into one of countries priorities and allies respect and responses; it’s why ADL wants to shut down this line of speech.
@geg6: DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO x elebenty million.
Thank you very, very much Tim F. You’ll really inspired me to be a truly involved participant in democracy on this, and that is as it should be. Thank you.
When this passes, I know I’m gonna cry, just like election night.
Dragon Age Origins expansion is pretty sweet.
@Sentient Puddle: I have a very real feeling that it will be, in its way, an election day.
Because if Democrats vote this in, they will be setting themselves up to maintain and increase their majority in November, and if they don’t, the door opens to the GOP.
I’d feel a lot better about it if the Roman Catholic Church didn’t own so many hospitals and have a financial interest in preventing healthcare reform from happening.
To me, that’s the problematic double-dealing: giving someone “spiritual” advice that just happens to keep money flowing to your organization.
Was driving around this afternoon on the way to/from a doctor’s appointment and decided to listen to AM radio, just to keep tabs on what the other side was saying. Caught the end of Limbaugh’s program and a bit of Hannity here and there.
Limbaugh spent most of his time talking about how the health care bill wouldn’t help anyone and would just raise costs for everyone. They really don’t care what they say, do they?
Hannity said the CBO report was a liberal lie and totally untrue. Then had Mike Pence on his show, who said that the Dems were in “complete disarray” and don’t have the votes. Then Hannity urged all his listeners to keep calling their reps because they can help make sure the whole thing falls apart.
I came away from listening to these guys rather depressed about the bill’s chances. And I’m actually following the news, so know what’s going on. There are going to be some flabbergasted wingnuts out there if the bill does pass. They are being told it’s failing and they can make sure it fails if they only pick up the phone.
Yes, this blog is very inspiring. I can’t read anything else.
Called Sheila Jackson-Lee again. They’re all too happy to hear from people thanking them for their support.
@mr. whipple: Me too. My level of anxiety is at perpetually high.
For me, too. Except the one bracket out of three where I had Vandy beating Butler.
Obligatory baby pic – scarfing down my Chicken Parm. It’s nice to have approval.
You just have to be happy for Murray State. Just makes me feel warm all over to see a bunch of guys rolling all over the floor.
Josh Marshall Tivo’s American Idol. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to take him seriously again.
I mean, ok, you’re bored, there’s nothing else on, so maybe you take in an episode of Idol. I get that.
But to actually set your DVR to record it so you won’t miss it while you’re away?
That’s a whole new level of lameness that I’d never even considered.
I guess I’ll get over it. Someday. But I wish respectable journalists would keep their viewing habits to themselves. It’s just so embarrassing.
As in all things there is a line, sometimes broad, sometimes not. In the religion/state thing the line is narrow, because as you point out we can have beliefs. Or not. For me the line is crossed here by the politicians but more so by the religious entities. The union president who goes to DC is going on behalf of his members. The insurance lobbyist is going for
the moneyhis clients. The cleric is going for his church, not the members of his church. He is trying to interject his church’s beliefs into the law. Even the lobbyist is working for someone’s advantage, not an ideal that is, well not ideal. It’s why there is supposed to be a separation, a firewall. Clerics pushing a religious ideal and politicians making their decisions based on conferring with those clerics has crossed the line. Way crossed. And that’s what was discussed back in JFK’s day. It was thought that JFK would call the pope to find out what to say and do, he would be a puppet for the pope. But that’s exactly what is going on here. The politician goes to the cleric to find out what to do and say. Once again, line crossed.
I’m certainly more than a little twisted, but this sounds highly erotic to me.
I blame jefferyw.
So sweet. She’s in a delicious-food-induced reverie.
I don’t think Friedman is on Op-Ed duty til Sunday. He’ll find a way to strangle a metaphor out of that.
Excellent update to the Balloon Juice header! I like that it keeps changing.
And a Tunch or Lily pix would be a welcome respite to all this whip counting.
TUNCH!!!! (new tagline)
I feel bad for Robert Morris; they led most of the game only to lose. They should still feel really proud of themselves.
carlos the dwarf
I am endlessly jealous. I haven’t gotten to have a disc-o-clock in months. This Saturday, I hope.
When this passes, I start shopping for Chicago real estate. Me and my pre-existing condition can come home again, baby.
OK, what was it, John discovered how to change the tagline yesterday? I believe he is now having way too much fun with it.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
@Corner Stone: As erotic as rubbing cure into a pork belly? Or rinsing that cure off and hanging the bacon? . . .
I find that the “sawing through the head” thing is only erotic to the most twisted of folks, though . . .
Hee hee. Thanks! I confess it’s very gratifying.
Lol @ the header. Love that it changes every day.
Want to add my thanks to Tim for being such a great BJ community organizer. I don’t usually get involved in things like this, but for the first time ever I’ve been phoning my Rep and Senators on a regular basis. It’s been great to know that I’m being heard and I feel like maybe I am making a difference. I never would have done it without your posts, Tim. You definitely made a difference.
@gogol’s wife: DUDE! That last one should have hung around at least a little longer! (Or, at least long enough for someone to give me some love for me “I’m tickled pink” comment about it…!)
Ah well. This is more fitting, at any rate.
Beer o’clock? My watch says it’s Whisky o’clock.
Holy smokes, I thought my kid had lots of hair. How old is your cutie?
I’m getting the same feeling I did after the election when the wingnuts who had been listening only to their own radio stations, and talking only amongst themselves, were totally convinced the whole election must have been stolen because “no one they knew” was voting for Obama and “its a center right nation.” Rush et al have insisted all along that the bill would be the end of the world, and very expensive, and also that the dems weren’t strong enough to pass it. IF it passes (inch’allah) they are going to be scrambling around the next day for explanations.
Rush, of course, is going to insist that its meaningless *and* expensive–that no white people will be helped, and that all the money is going to pay for illegal aliens. And many of his followers will insist that the vote didn’t really happen, or was paid for by…uh…unions, or corporations, or banks, or aliens, or somebody. There’s just no room in this model of american politics for succesful democratic legislation and legislators.
@Fergus Wooster: I’m…not as young as I used to be…it’s going to be a few mins for me here.
So, Obama picked Murray State; I’m so not worthy.
@Carnacki: That was yesterday.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
I’m guessing Cole received too many fanmails asking if it was true he showered with Rahm. And if so, why?
Dear God, Glenn Beck is Must Watch WTF TV today. Seeds in the fruit?
R-Jud–that is the funniest “baby falls into cupcake” picture I’ve ever seen. Also, Fergus Wooster’s baby is adorable.
@Carnacki: Carnacki’s house! Stat!!
@R-Jud: 17 months. She popped out with full locks of jet-black hair.
Awwww. . . We’ll have to give Peanut a cupcake now. . .
Yeah, kind of takes you back to the days of all-night raves in the meatpacking district. Only slightly less gore. . .
@The Dangerman: He did pick Notre Dame though.
I too, would like to join the chorus in thanking you Tim.
Hah, awesome– I’m reading the blog (like many others I haven’t been this anxious since election week) and nursing a shot of Oban. My grad students are all chuckling at me.
The philistines, they’re still nursing their green beer hangovers. I’ve got the good stuff.
And where are Tunch and sweet Lily?
@Fergus Wooster: She is so cute and she obviously enjoys your cooking.
I only drink Crown Royal — Special Reserve if you’re buying — on days that end with ‘y’.
@demo woman: We’re thrilled that she’s eating her full intake now. It took her about 15 months to learn how.
She’s a preexisting condition and recission target, so if this sucker passes, we’re breaking out the
Good point; the Big East almost took a giant shit coming off the line, almost losing their first 2 games (Villanova was DOA against Robert Morris – and still almost lost on a late brain cramp).
Dudes, tweety is dropping the hammer on the leader of AFP, whose signs made a prominent appearance at yesterday’s Columbus HCR rally.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Someone just forwarded me a the United Pro-Life Bishops CLARIFICTION (their spelling) on the nun letter.
Bless me Father, your Freudian slip is peeking out from beneath your cassock.
I don’t know if this got mentioned in an earlier thread but TPM has a link up to the actual, factual Health Care Bill + and a little about the planned vote:
Reconciliation Bill Goes Online, Starts 72-Hour Clock
So far, FOX has been absolutely silent on the whole issue. It’s as though it hasn’t happened. Which I find extremely interesting. If it had been anyone besides Petraeus, I think they would have been blaring about the antisemitic, traitorous, America-hating, Jesus-hating general. But as of yet, they aren’t even tip-toeing.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
But I do believe that the apex of AIPAC power has been reached. Question is, how long will the decline take. (I feel sorry for all the folks who will have to die while it happens.)
Not sure why the following information triggered moderation, so I’ll reword it and live in hope:
Talking Points Memo has a link to the HCR bill in its entirety, with a little information about the planning of the vote:
@jibeaux: The problem is writing religious doctrine into law, which violates the religious freedom of those who disagree with it.
Having a whole slew of aunts, uncles, siblings, & my SO that are doctors, nurses, and other medical staff, many of whom work at Catholic hospitals I can assure you that it is NOT that heavy handed.
I have NEVER seen nor heard of any proselytizing going on in such hospitals.
If anything, they have been one of the only institutions that will treat the poor and uninsured and frequently just eat the cost.
Third time, for luck?
I’ve twice tried to link to TPM to a piece they have up with an embedded link to The Bill. Twice, moderation has stopped me.
Now I’ll try with the link to the pdf of the bill:
@ellaesther: THANK GOD.
@Carnacki: I’ve never seen the point of Special Reserve.
Crown is so damned nifty all by itself for 2/3rds the price.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Everyone put on their dung helmets. The Queen of Poutrage is spinning up for an epic meltdown
Meanwhile, back at the Firebagger Front, the whip wizards at FDL stick to their Norquist math approved dem fail whip count for passage of the “This Is Going To Ruin Jane Hamshers Reputation Health Care Reform Rahm Sellout” bill of 2010.
Not to be left out, Ace of Spades, big Jimbo, is very concerned.
Me, I plan to pick my teeth and write another Obama love song.
I’m getting the same inkling.
Especially when my email is filling up with RW spam freaking out and claiming that 60% of the country opposes the plan and just wants to start over. The radio is in full freakout screaming apoplexy, and Fox News has gone from Sockalism, to armaggedon, to Code Red, to I don’t know where they go next, Red State is predicting violent backlash.
The nadir, you mean…?
But honestly, lord lord, this Jew hopes you’re right.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I love it. Like Malkin gave two shits about the Constitution before January 20, 2009.
Sweet, sweet Malkin rage-tears. . . mmmmmm. . . .
Same with the Bean (who’s just had her first birthday– hence the cupcake). Small humans are amusing, aren’t they?
This. As with a lot of other things, the front-line staff at Catholic hospitals are, in the main, lovely committed people. It’s the board-level and diocese level people who are more likely to be complete jerkwads.
@R-Jud: She’s adorable. Best birthday wishes from the Wooster household!
We had taken to calling her a proto-human. But then came the first expression of Will. I fear it’s all downhill from here. . .
Heh heh heh…my west and south brackets are pretty fucked. About the only saving grace I’ll have is if Butler wins. And then wins again and again and then three more times.
Glenn Beck has three Obama-ified posters of Founding Fathers – Sam Adams as Faith, George Washington as Hope, and Ben Franklin as Charity.
Really, Ben Franklin as Charity. Serial fornicator, perpetually isolated from his family. That’s Beck’s icon of Charity. I can’t fathom why Sam and George are Faith and Hope, though.
However, I would like them if they were labeled BEER, POT, and TAIL.
Yes, I was going to point that out as well. Catholic hospitals, for that reason, probably have more to financially gain, in the form of payment from currently poor and uninsured patients, from passage of HCR than they would lose.
The Bishops’ opposition to HCR is strictly ideological, as far as I can tell.
@Joseph Nobles: You owe me a laptop and a dark chocolate mocha for that last line.
In fact, whoever is keeping tally needs to record that one for the post of the year.
@Dr. Morpheus: The problem isn’t possible proselytizing. The problem is that there are medical procedures that Catholic hospitals will not do or offer, for example, abortions, the morning after pill, plan B will not be given to rape victims (Lieberman expressed the idea that if a rape victim was denied the pill in a Catholic hospital CT had enough hospitals that said victim could go to another hospital for it!), tubal ligations, etc.
It’s not the doctors, nurses and other medical staff who are going to Congress giving “spiritual” advice that just happens to give their hospital an advantage. It’s those jerkwad board members who are trying to have it both ways.
One of the reasons that certain bishops are fighting so hard against healthcare reform is that they’re afraid that Catholic hospitals will be forced give the morning-after pill to rape victims and similar “immoral” acts if the government is paying for healthcare.
I’m sure the people doing the actual work at the hospitals are doing a fine job, but they’re not the ones trying to block healthcare because they’re going to lose a competitive advantage.
Beer, I remember beer, oh yeaaahhh……now it’s all straight hard liquor for me, and that sparingly. But as terrible sad as it makes me to give up my friend beer, it’s been a good thing indeed to lose these 40 pounds. 30 more to go and I will cap it off with a kegger, perhaps, eh? That sounds like a fantastic goal.
Oh, many thanks for that news! He was one I was really hoping would come around.
@Mnemosyne: It may surprise you, then, that Catholic hospitals support passage of HCR.
Don’t fall into the trap of believing that all Catholics are in lockstep agreement with the pope and all the old fossilized right-wing cardinals and bishops. They’d like to think so, but it’s not the case.