In yesterday’s open thread headlined by Pelosi’s picture, there were a few comments about her lack of popularity amongst non-political types. I’ve had the same experience as those commenters: a couple of friends who vote Democratic, but don’t care much about politics, really dislike Nancy Pelosi.
If you look at past Speakers, this isn’t really surprising. The ones who made a lot of headlines, like Tip O’Neill and Newt Gingrich, weren’t that great. Tip was in a similar position as Pelosi (Democrats controlled both Houses and the Presidency), but Democrats dropped the ball on his watch. With all the press he gets, it’s easy to forget that Newt was deposed by his own party after 4 years.
Unlike Tip and Newt, the man widely considered to be the best Speaker in history, Sam Rayburn, “preferred working quietly in the background to being in the public spotlight.” His successor, John McCormack, shepherded landmark civil rights legislation, as well as Medicare, through the House, yet LBJ gets all the credit for those accomplishments. And let’s not forget Carl Albert, because everyone else has.
Pelosi is unpopular because the talents needed to be a good speaker just don’t sell soap. She’s ferociously on-message, which makes her public statements look wooden and over-rehearsed. The tale of her upbringing as daughter of a machine mayor is short on human interest, but long on the arm-twisting and favor-trading a good Speaker needs to master.
In short: she’s intense, focused, ruthless and competent. Those qualities won’t get her a movie of the week or a permanent spot on Meet the Press, but they might just get the most important piece of legislation in the last 40 years through the House.
r€nato
She’s a damned good speaker and I have a hard time not comparing the job she’s getting done vs. the job Harry Reid didn’t seem able to do all-too-well in the Senate.
r€nato
Anybody else catch Mary Matalin on Colbert last night? What a train wreck she was. She is clearly over 50 and was trying out the Madonna look from 25 years ago (when she might have been able to pull it off). She had a crucifix in plain view but she couldn’t quote a goddamned thing Jesus said. (Colbert sure can, because he believes in the real Jesus, not Republican Jesus.) She did claim he said, however, ‘the poor have to work’.
Colbert started out with his ‘GOP talking points’ bingo card which effectively shut her up for the entire (edited) interview. I thought this woman was pretty good on-camera but her fear of giving Colbert material seemed to cause her to shut herself down. She even asked him if she could see the bingo card!
Good stuff, catch it if you can.
jayackroyd
There is sexism going on as well. She is tough and focused. Those are virtues when you’re male, suspicious when you are not.
jayackroyd
r€nato
Colbert has the advantage of actually being Catholic. Not an advantage I would pursue, but there it is. It makes phonies like Matalin look sorta pathetic.
r€nato
…it was especially endearing when Matalin claimed that passing HCR would cause the Democrats to lose massively at the polls this fall. Which… should mean that she should WANT the Dems to pass HCR, right?
No, please don’t throw us into the briar patch!
r€nato
@jayackroyd:
‘phony’ is the nicest thing I could say about Matalin.
Napoleon
It really doesn’t matter what the average person thinks of Pelosi. No one votes one way or the other based on the speaker and if she deliver results people will vote Dem.
Sam Rayburn, great man and along with McCormack and Albert part of a long tradition of some pretty good leadership in the Dem party for much of the 20th century.
@r€nato:
She is a great example of how any more in the political and media class of this country you can be a complete f-up and still get treated as someone who has something to offer. Her entire career has been one train wreck after another.
beltane
Is she that unpopular among all non-political junkies? I know of several older Democratic women around Pelosi’s age who hold her in extremely high esteem. According to the DKos polls she is far more popular among women than among men (who really do seem to hate her).
I personally think she’s doing an outstanding job.
beltane
@jayackroyd: Of the triumvirate of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama it is interesting to note that it’s the white male who is the weak link. Just a casual observation on my part.
FMguru
I’m not surprised at her lack of popularity among people in general, but the lack of affection for her among progressives is a little startling. Of all the moving parts in HCR, she delivered for progressives far more than the hapless Reid or the wobbly Obama/Rahm, and the degree to which the final bill has any progressive credentials is due to Pelosi and her hardline negotiating style.
A lot of this is because of the structural differences between the House and Senate (she has much more powerful institutional tools at her disposal to maintain party discipline and punish aisle-crossers), but she’s been far more stalwart in her job than anyone else in Washington, and I’m more than a little saddened that progressives don’t appreciate her more.
mistermix
@Napoleon: You’re right that it isn’t important what people think of her. Though a lot of Democrats seem upset that she isn’t better-regarded.
@beltane: Come to think of it, the people I know who don’t like her are male.
MikeJ
Not fair to compare Pelosi to Reid. Reid has an entirely different animal to wrestle.
BR
@beltane:
Not only that, but if you look at the weekly dkos poll, Pelosi and Obama (and less so Reid) have their strongest support from women and minorities – significantly so.
BR
Pelosi favorability from dkos poll:
MEN : 21/74/5
WOMEN: 49/38/13
That’s what I call a gender gap.
MattF
Her qualities mean, specifically, that she’s not going to be popular in the Congress– certainly not with Republicans, but not with Democrats either. Since the media gets its ‘inside’ information from loose-lipped politicians and their staffs, the ‘word’ on Pelosi is always going to be negative.
jayackroyd
@beltane #8
I agree with you. The GOP has tried make her out to be an evil harpy, but I think she has stood up to that nonsense really well. It is the sort of thing that makes the heads explode of Tweety and his old white guy ilk, but she stands her ground, takes names and kicks ass. That is what you want a Speaker to do.
Hell, she brought nutsy Dennis to heel. Not easy.
BR
I do really get the sense from the old catholic guy contingent that seems to dominate the punditosphere that they’re really somehow viscerally uncomfortable with Obama and Pelosi being the two most powerful people in Washington (and the country). You just get that vibe from when they speak about them.
kay
I love Pelosi.
Democrats are impossible.
She “stays on message” and that means she’s “wooden”. She completes nearly every task she’s handed and that means she’s a “machine pol”.
I cannot imagine negotiating with Bart Stupak for 16 months.
I don’t think the media know what to do with her, either. She’s impossible to cram into one of the conventional boxes they reserve for powerful women.
beltane
@BR: Too bad the media considers the opinions of women and minorities to be unimportant. Real Americans=white males.
shortstop
I don’t want a political celebrity as speaker. I want someone who can lead a caucus without effectiveness-sapping grandstanding. Pelosi has earned my significant admiration.
mai naem
I haven’t seen any big hatefest for Pelosi except from the wingnuts.I have issues with Reid but Pelosi has more leverage with her Dems than Reid has with his. Not only that, she has a larger majority and I would be willing to bet he’s got more conservatives ratio-wise to deal with than she does. The only two things I do wish he had done was cut Baucus earlier in Finance and ofcourse tell Lieberprick to f#$k off and die.
MikeJ
@MattF: If Pelosi weren’t popular with Democrats in congress she wouldn’t be speaker.
sbjules
I too agree with beltane. I like Pelosi, I really like her!
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
She is a woman with power and she knows how to use it. Male goopers don’t like powerful and intelligent women ‘above’ them and they are going to disparage her at every turn they can. It’s all about diminishing her not only so they feel better about themselves but also they feed the public the perception that she is a monster. Goopers are into optics when it comes to their women; they have to look good and that is enough for them. No intelligence necessary, just smile and parrot the lines for the patsies. Look at how popular Bachmann and Palin are, the goopers absolutely love dumb, pliable women as politicians. Women that can be wound up, released and they parrot away at the talking points to their adoring party. A weak woman who willingly does the party bidding is the Republican version of being a powerful woman.
Smart people can see what an effective leader Pelosi is, that she is no vapid personality like Palin or Bachmann. That she actually has a brain and knows how to use it in her line of work, unlike Gooper beauty contestants Palin and Bachmann.
beltane
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal): Like Palin, Nancy Pelosi also has five children, but you never hear the wingnuts praise her for this. If Pelosi exploited her children and grandchildren the way Palin does, the right-wing noise machine would eat her alive.
Maude
@kay: And she always looks wonderful.
flukebucket
@mistermix:
That is what I have noticed. I think that is because she is supposed to be home washing dishes and doing laundry just like our current President is supposed to be shining shoes.
Some folks just cannot bring themselves to accept a changed world.
4tehlulz
Yes, but would you have a beer with her?
kay
@Maude:
I laugh at Republicans with the botox stuff.
These are the same people who elevated a House member who is known for nothing so much as his tanning-bed usage.
He’s a moron. But he plays golf!
Gregory
Mark me down as one old white (lapsed) Catholic male who admires Pelosi.
The major beef I have with her is getting played into taking impeachment off the table, but that’s a specific performance issue, not a personality issue (which, as others have pointed out, is a double standard anyway).
ETA: I’m not suggesting Pelosi should necessarily have pursued impeachment proceedings against Bush, but by taking it off the table she gave the crooks breathing room and moved the Overton window the wrong way.
Cat Lady
Thanks for this interesting post mistermix. I didn’t know that John McCormack didn’t go to high school, yet passed the bar at 21. He was my kind of Democrat – fiercely liberal, wicked smaht, devoted to his wife, and devoted to the ideals of this country. In other words, the opposite of Gingrich. The Boston Irish have really done pretty well by all of us, at least the ones who went into politics.
hal
The best thing Matalin ever did was not reproduce. James Carville/Mary Matalin genes combining would not have been pretty.
Woodrowfan
a smart, capable, ambitious woman makes RWers balls shrink. Their hatred of The Speaker is partly just partisan (she leads the other side) and part Repuk hatred/fear of strong capable women.
Woodrowfan
I think they have at least one daughter…
mistermix
@kay: Just to be clear: I like her, a lot. I’m trying to explain why people who aren’t political junkies, and therefore can’t appreciate that she’s a hell of a Speaker, don’t like her.
beltane
@hal: Sorry to burst your bubble, but Carville and Matalin have two daughters so Matalin’s X chromosome will live on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Carville
Brian J
If she gets health care passed and it turns out that the death panels don’t start immediately and the tanks don’t start rolling through the streets right away, I suspect her popularity will increase with everyone outside the extremes of the Republican party. If she manages to become associated–indirectly, of course, because as others said, she prefers to be in the background–with other popular pieces of legislation, it could increase even more. Granted, she won’t become like Obama was at the time of his swearing in, but she could be viewed in a new light. And even if she isn’t, I don’t think she’ll care.
Meanwhile, here’s a nice article describing the relationship between Hillary Clinton and Obama after the long primary campaign. Nothing is perfect just yet, because as the article describes there hasn’t been any signature achievement that has brought them together, but at the same time, I think it shows what happens when two grown ups, as opposed to childish clowns, are in charge.
MattF
Well, I know a female Democrat (ex-Congressional staffer) who doesn’t like her. Her complaint is that Pelosi is basically a privileged big-city pol who is uninterested in the nuts and bolts of getting things done in the House– and lack of interest in nuts and bolts means that lobbyists-with-agendas who are involved the minutiae of policy have more influence than they ought to.
Dave Paulson
Nancy Pelosi is “good” at her job, by certain standards, but oddly enough, it’s that proficiency that causes conflict with progressives. Case in point is the HCR bill: she decided not to include the public option in the reconciliation package, in spite of the fact that the Senate would likely have the votes to pass it. I must assume that this is because she felt she didn’t have sufficient support in the House.
Is this practical? Probably. Is it what progressives want? Absolutely not!
Brian J
@beltane:
Palin’s children are younger than Pelosi’s. It’s harder to use your kids as props if they are adults.
But yes, she would be eaten alive if she tried to do what Palin did.
Chyron HR
The Speaker of the House is a pretty cool guy. seh wrangles blue dogs and doesn’t afraid of anything.
shortstop
I recall an interview with her filmmaker daughter (Alexandra?) when she was following the McCain campaign. She was mystified by the level of winger vitriol against her mother expressed by people who didn’t know she was Nancy’s daughter. Somebody was bitching about Nancy’s lack of essential womanhood and maternal qualities or some such shit and Alexandra thought to herself, “Yeah, and she’s taking care of my children right now while I make this film.” I remember thinking how cool it was that the speaker of the house goes home in the summer and has a houseful of grandchildren to feed, bathe and play with.
I guess that sounds odd — I mean, why wouldn’t she? But I just liked the basicness of it. I feel the same way about how Joe Biden interacts with his extended family.
mr. whipple
@Brian J:
Agreed. I think Pelosi is awesome.
She is the only one who has ever got a HCR bill thru the House. Based on that alone, imo, she’s entered the realm of greatness.
Brian J
@shortstop:
Maybe she’s vastly different in private, but I also like how you get the impression the attacks don’t phase her that much. She is, to be blunt, a grandma with a big set…of steel nerves.
kay
@mistermix:
Somebody commented here the other day, referring to votes for HCR : “I trust her”.
I do, too. Not “trust” in a personal way, but I am confident in her abilities, in the sense that if she can’t do this (at this particular time, given the Congress she has, and the specific set of facts) no one can.
Brian J
@MattF:
I’m not sure I get that. She’s under-interested in getting things done in the House, or in the policy angle? The former I don’t really believe, because she’d be screwing over the entire party by not getting anything done. And the latter doesn’t seem obvious, either.
zmulls
Remember that classic “great” Speakers like Sam Rayburn didn’t have to deal with a television culture. It was a lot easier to stay in the background and get it done in the last century.
It’s a job requirement now to get on TV and speak to cameras. Sucks, but it’s the way it is. I expect Pelosi has had some cosmetic work done, and colors her hair. And I don’t freaking blame her. Can you imagine if she looked like *most* 70-year-olds? Nobody would take her serious.
No, she’s not good at the on camera stuff. But she appears to be real good at the “in the room” stuff. Getting through to someone one-on-one, wrangling small factions a few people at a time, knows what’s going on in all the districts and what members are worried about, looks for ways to satisfy members’ concerns (either by real changes or at least face-saving ones).
If she hadn’t been damn determined to get this done one way or another, it would not have happened. Even more than Obama, she’s pulling this one across the finish line
I would have preferred many more ponies. But I’ll take this mule and ask for more ponies next Congress, and again after the 2012 elections.
Marc
@beltane: I would love to see Chuck Schumer get Reid’s job, mostly because I think he’d be more effective but partly because I love the thought of an Obama/Pelosi/Schumer trio running the country.
If nothing else, it would show the true face of some of those deeply concerned friends of Israel on the right…
Graeme
I actually just voted against Pelosi in ’08. Her recent performance has me regretting that. I’ll be solidly supporting her henceforth.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@kay:
This.
When she became Speaker, her first year didn’t instill me with a lot of confidence, possibly because she didn’t have an effective majority. After all, we’re Dems and we have Blue Dog Dems so doing anything meaningful was impossible.
Since then? She’s been top notch. Since she’s had a working majority, she’s enacted a progressive agenda. Too bad it’s run into the stone wall that is the Senate where another Dem leader finally got a working majority this year but then remembered he had no balls.
And who gives a shit (other than the Beltway gasbags and stenographers) about her rating? The only thing that matters is her polling in her district.
Marc
@MattF: Yeah, I don’t know if I’d buy that without a lot more information. “Uninterested in the nuts and bolts of getting things done in the House” doesn’t line up all that well with her record.
And “a privileged big-city pol” sounds like code for some sort of resentment to me.
Adrienne
@Marc: That’s my wet dream gov’t trifecta! Obama/Pelosi/Reid would totally kick ass…. Only thing is, Schumer is one of my senators and lord knows he lies down w/ the banking dogs and has some of the banking dog fleas to show for it.
Davis X. Machina
Objection, Your Honor, assumes facts not in evidence….
CalD
Sure, you think Pelosi is great now. But wait until she come in the night to take your balls. (Yes, I’m kidding.)
I gotta tell you though, single most underappreciated figure of our time almost has to be Harry Reid. Mrs. Pelosi gets unfairly trashed from both the left and right but she certainly gets no less love than Reid. And I haven’t exactly seen her whipping up 100% of her caucus for much of anything very consequential. In fact the HCR bill that we’re talking about right now passed the senate with 60 votes and I seriously doubt Reid will have any problem getting 51 for the sidecar bill.
kay
@Marc:
It’s the San Francisco thing. Since I reject the idea that San Francisco is somehow less American than, say, Salt Lake City or Dallas, I don’t buy it, but she’d have an easier time if she were midwestern or southern.
I think that fits the movie version of ” Real American Politician”.
She has to be from somewhere like “Sugarland”. Or Kansas!
WereBear
The very behavior that gets men admired will drive right-wingers crazy when it appears in a feminine body.
That’s because, to them, women are not people. Even a right wing woman is made to feel “wrong” for admiring a strong person of their own sex.
SGEW
[my occasional tl;dr]
Well, as a political type who reliably votes Democratic, I’ve held a real grudge against Rep. Pelosi for years now, to tell the truth. I’m not a fan.
From my perspective at the time, Pelosi basically dropped the ball during the Bush years. Capitulated to madness and tyranny: blinkered herself from acknowledging law breaking, played softball on questions of historical importance, and ultimately served to weaken the balanced powers of Congress. For example, considering a nuclear strike against Iran (madness: madness!) was said to be “on the table,” but considering impeachment proceedings for ordering warrantless wiretapping or torture (admitted crimes!) was unilaterally “off the table.” Bluntly; I came to despise her table.
Now, mind you, I acknowledge that one could certainly argue that she did a bang-up job on a botched game in a broken system; there may have been precious little that anyone could have done in that position, in those times, in this bloody nation. There may have been untold damage that was mitigated by her actions, both public and private (depending on counter-factuals, perhaps). And she does have a relatively solid voting record, sure.
But I think I would hold a grudge against anyone who was a “leader” of the Democratic congress members during the Bush years. It was an impossible position, granted; maybe it required different circumstances, or would have required an absolutely historically badass politician to have made a difference[1]. It’s hard to say exactly how one congressperson, Speaker or not, could have somehow checked the flagrant lawbreaking and delusional policy of the executive branch . . . but that was their damned job. If they failed at a job requirement, they should be held accountable for it.
Of course, I feel somewhat differently now[2]. And when HCR is signed, I’ll be one of her biggest congratulators. Good job; you’re awesome for doing the right thing, in a competent way. Hooray! Fo’ realz.
Yet I will always hold the Bush years against her; against everyone. Against us, I guess.
[1] Depending on one’s sort of historical theory, of course.
[2] Eliding discussion of my current political perspective, for now.
rikyrah
you’ve forgotten the most important point about Pelosi…
she does all of this in designer clothes with nary a hair out of place…
yes, that’s snark, but not really.
I don’t believe Pelosi will ever get her due, mainly because she’s a woman. And, because she doesn’t fit the feminist stereotypes. She’s married to a good looking man who looks pretty happy to be in her presence; she’s been a good mother – none of her kids are in the tabloids or on police blotters; she’s a devoted grandmother. Plus, she LOOKS DAMN GOOD for her age.
what part of that fits into the feminist stereotype?
Nancy looks like she’s had it all; at differing times in her life, but the overall arc of her life has been positive, both personally and professionally.
THAT is why the GOP loathes her.
as for progressives, I don’t know about them.
but, yes, as someone noted above, she gets consistent high marks from women, and oddly enough, from Blacks in those DailyKos polls.[ personally speaking, I think it’s because Black folk see that Nancy gets shyt done only to see it stall in the Senate. Plus the more progressive nature of what comes out of the House appeals to the Black community more.]
Kristine
@jayackroyd:
Bingo. With bonus points.
It’s so simple. And really sad.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Always been a Pelosi fan, never wavered despite some disappointments. If you are not willing to accept a degree of disappointment in leaders, then you are doomed to perpetual cynicism born of unrealistic expectations of human persons. I can’t do politics that way, or life in general. Granted, stakes are high and errors and shortcomings from our leaders sometimes have dire consequences, but the perfect does not exist for those in public life any more than it does with any of us in our private lives. Though where to draw lines is no easy task, and always subject to debate.
SGEW
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Alas: a lack.
Corner Stone
@mistermix:
This isn’t a mystery.
slightly_peeved
Even allowing for this to be true, likely does not mean definitely.
If removing the public option turns the likely into a definitely, I think Obama and Peloisi would currently take the definitely. Considering the history of HCR in the US, and the small weakened form of a public option that was being proposed, I can’t blame them for trying to eliminate the risks.
TooManyJens
Never underestimate the number of douchebags out there for whom any woman they don’t want to bang is a worthless bitch. No, I’m most emphatically not saying that all men are like this, but god damn, there are a lot of them. And if you’re getting your impression of who is and is not popular from the internet, you’re going to run into them even more.
Sock Puppet of the Great Satan
I love Pelosi, and am proud she’s my Rep.
“Anybody else catch Mary Matalin on Colbert last night? What a train wreck she was”
I think Matalin was drunk.
Parrotlover77
Word.
I started out with a bad taste in my mouth after the whole “impeachment is off the table” comment. Since then, she has grown on me in a strong way. Her commitment to her job is amazing and I have yet to see her promise something she couldn’t come through on. Some of the things she says are unpopular with the ultra-libs but it’s not due to lack of will. When she says the House can’t do something, it’s because they don’t have the votes and can’t whip them up! (That’s why she took impeachment “off the table.” It never would have passed and it would have caused embarrassment to the party to doggedly pursue it like the Repubs did with the BJ nonsense.)
If she pulls off this HCR vote, I’d put her, easily, as one of the top Speakers in the modern era, if not the top spot. She didn’t have it easy. The Congress is still a “old boy’s club.” She’s an amazing politician and I admire her greatly.
I disagree with “likely.” In the Senate, we have 41 right now. The last 9 we need (assuming Biden breaks the tie, which is a pretty safe, but not definite, assumption) are going to be extraordinarly hard to get. Look at the trouble Pelosi is having on her side! And the Senate is far more conservative. Don’t be fooled — if it wasn’t the abortion nonsense, it would be something else. It’s just an excuse. They can come off as “reasonable” by pointing to a specific part they don’t like, while at the same time attempting to appease the teabaggers (who would never vote for them anyway, but, well, conservative Dems are retarded that way).
I’m not even going to get into the possible backlash on the House side with the blue dogs who are little tiny scared blue puppies when a couple of old hags with teabags on their hat call them up and whine.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
And this, my friends, is why I LOVE “Grandma Nancy.”
woody45
@Marc:
I’m just amazed that they expected the daughter of a big city mayor to live in squalor.
Then there’s the reality. She grew up in Baltimore’s Little Italy. That’s as working class as it gets. Her father never moved out of the neighborhood.
AxelFoley
@hal:
Damn, man, it’s a good thing I wasn’t eating. That thought makes my stomach turn.
Buggy Ding Dong
If we had more Democrats like Pelosi, we’d actually be a damn effective political party.
I love her.
AxelFoley
@beltane:
Well, there goes dinner…
Skeletor and Evil Lyn have kids, huh? LOL
Chuck Butcher
I have a great deal of respect for Pelosi as a smart and effective Speaker. Whether I like her or not is immaterial; I find her laugh annoying and her mannerisms overly theatrical. So what? She isn’t ever going to be a regular dinner guest at my house.
Ninufar
Two things I love most (so far, before health care reform) about Speaker Pelosi:
1. She pushed John Murtha into the limelight way before much of anyone else had the guts to question the war in Iraq.
2. When the presidential primary race was getting kinda wacky, she squashed some of the crazier demands of the competitors (like one former junior senator from NY who’s really stepped up lately, whew).
I think she’s for real, she’s a for-real tough wrangler in that sausage-making factory, she’s a real doting & involved grandmother… this foils so many of the smears against her!!! The last time she was invoking St. Joseph (I think?) was at a tomb she visited in, what, Syria? And wingnuts ran with this (Reuters?) photo of her with her head covered in a scarf, scandal! scandal! And every older Italian Catholic voter saw that picture and went, *wow*, she is so darn wholesome! (Prob’ly the older Jewish voters and Eastern Orth. Christians, too.) Hah.
jamzo
if she were a man nancy would have a popular image
“strong, focused, determined” etc
her political opponents attack her strength
they have done is to hilary clinton and now they are doing this to nancy pelosi
Preston
RENATO: Well said. I real love Colbert he real shut Mary Matalin down. I real felt she real did not know the scripture she was referring to (her fumbling gave her away), no real surprise there, even though she is very good at her day job. Let’s face it, she is very smart so if she real knew the subject she would have hit this with a response “out of the park”. Instead, she said very little. Too funny.