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You are here: Home / Open Threads / What Time Is It In New York?

What Time Is It In New York?

by Tim F|  March 19, 201012:56 pm| 107 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Time to phone John Hall.

I just got off the phone with Congressman John Hall’s office (NY-19). I assumed he would vote for HCR but he is undeclared. I gave money to elect Hall. His staff said I was one of only TWO calls in support of HCR, and the office has been flooded with calls opposing the bill. He will make up his mind on Sunday, but the staff member said calls are needed, and if I care about what happens we need to contact friends and family to call Hall’s office to voice support. I could hear the worry and fear in her voice.

If you have already called, send a fax as well. Faxes are as close as you can get to the gold standard of written letters, which take too long to arrive ever since the anthrax business.

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Reader Interactions

107Comments

  1. 1.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 19, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Tim, I take it you aren’t getting much lab work done today.

  2. 2.

    FreeAtLast

    March 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    WTF??!!!

    I worked to get him elected in 2006 even though he’s not in my district (he’s in a in a neighboring district). He’s gonna hear from me!

  3. 3.

    Tim F.

    March 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum: Trying to write a review at the moment. Paper for Science (cross fingers!) went out for collaborators to read two days ago so I’m slightly less frantic than usual.

  4. 4.

    aimai

    March 19, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    I just got off the phone with Capuano’s local rep. Really sweet chat. She wants him to vote yes (and I take it that he is going to) and she told me that they keep a separate tally of in state/out state votes, and that Lynch is secretly “anti choice” and that’s the real reason for his “no” vote (while Mike is pro choice). She let me go with the cheery, whispered, information “and you know what? the nuns are calling in!” We agreed that we want the nuns to mail in rulers in support of the bill.

    aimai

  5. 5.

    The Main Gauche of Mild Reason

    March 19, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Seems like the switchboard is overwhelmed right now….

  6. 6.

    Tazistan Jen

    March 19, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Good idea. I think I will fax a picture of me holding the sign I brought to visit Udall’s office. My three reps/sens are all on board, but if they are getting yelled at by teabaggers, I guess they need to hear from me one more time/

  7. 7.

    PeakVT

    March 19, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Parkinson’s disease hero speaks on health care reform.

  8. 8.

    FormerSwingVoter

    March 19, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    I’m having difficulty getting through on the phones. Is there an easy way to fax them from my computer?

    A quick search found this: http://faxzero.com/ – but I don’t know how legit it is.

  9. 9.

    cleek

    March 19, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    given that i’m smack in the middle of NC, i’m so happy to have a reliably liberal rep: David Price.

  10. 10.

    Jules

    March 19, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    I just heard on NPR that Rep. Peter DeFazio from Oregon has switched to no.

  11. 11.

    Jules

    March 19, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Oh and Lynch from Mass is a no.
    WTH is the matter with these people?

  12. 12.

    patrick II

    March 19, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    just called glenn nye of virginia’s second. He is “still reading the bill” and undecided. I told him his district share of the 45,000 deaths each year from poor health insurance comes to about 95 and there is nothing better he could do for his constituents than pass health care.
    For anybody else in nye’s district — he is still on the fence.

  13. 13.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    @cleek:

    You know, I had the misfortune of meeting the moron who challenged him last time and who was out trying to glad hand for votes this time saying that the dynamics were going to be very different this time around.
    Delusional fuckwit, you’re talking about Chapel Hill and Durham.

  14. 14.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    @PeakVT:
    Wow. Awesome. Thanks for the link. This needs to go viral. This guy is a real hero. Thanks to him for coming out to the rally and testifying in the face of all those cretins.

  15. 15.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Yes, let’s ignore the will of the majority of Americans. Support this unconstitutional bill and the unconstitutional technique to pass it! Go Amerika!

  16. 16.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    March 19, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    @Jules: Pete has a history of last minute histrionics. He’ll vote yes on Sunday.

  17. 17.

    The Disgruntled Chemist

    March 19, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    For anybody in MD-3, John Sarbanes is still undecided according to his Annapolis office. The staffer said they’re getting an even number of calls from each side.

  18. 18.

    aimai

    March 19, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    I don’t think “unconstitutional” means “things Kevin doesn’t like.” It sort of has a technical meaning.

    aimai

  19. 19.

    Tim F.

    March 19, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Cool! A real teabagger. Who wants to test whether he’s immune to logic?

  20. 20.

    Da Bomb

    March 19, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Why don’t you slither on back under the rock you crawled from under.

    Ignorant twit.

  21. 21.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    @Jules:

    You should be asking what’s wrong with the bill, not the people who oppose it.

    It will bankrupt America. Do you support that? Find me one legitimate number in the CBO scoring that wasn’t fabricated by accounting gimmicks.

  22. 22.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    @Tim F.:

    Go ahead…I’m all ears. Let’s hash this out so the public can see that your position is horribly incorrect.

  23. 23.

    FormerSwingVoter

    March 19, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    The Constitution clearly gives the federal government the ability to spend money and make laws, while the courts have established that deem-and-pass is completely Constitutional since a vote is required, and simply counted towards both bills.

    Yet you still hold up a Constitution you have clearly never read in full as justification for blindly repeating what your radio tells you to.

    Sir, you are a coward.

  24. 24.

    slag

    March 19, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: I sure as hell wish we also would have ignored the will of the majority of Americans before we went to war in Iraq. Sometimes, the majority of Americans are just wrong. This is one of those times.

  25. 25.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 19, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll…

    “Mom, Phineas and Ferb are trying to improve health care for Americans.”

  26. 26.

    zmulls

    March 19, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    I called Sestak, Casey and Specter today. All of them are still giving out the “the [Senator/Representative] has always been very supportive of Health Care initiatives, but he will want to see the final bill before commiting, etc. etc.” line.

    I emphasized to all offices that at this point, there will certainly be things in the bill that we will have to hold our noses about, and this is a necessary first step. I told them that I’d like *my* Pennsylvania [Senator/Representative] to not be one of the guys sitting in back waiting for the last minute, and I’d prefer him out in front helping convince people to get on board.

    I always feel like I’m wasting my time. It’s not like I expect Sestak to really vote No…..

  27. 27.

    Fitzwili

    March 19, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    If you are calling a district with conservative or catholic voters- mention the nuns to the staffer- every office I have called has responded favorably to the mention of the nun’s support.

  28. 28.

    slag

    March 19, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    @Tim F.:

    Cool! A real teabagger. Who wants to test whether he’s immune to logic?

    You might as well ask whether this glass of water I’m drinking is wet.

  29. 29.

    Tim F.

    March 19, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: You already lost when you brought up the CBO conspiracy theories. Hard experience taught me not to bother with creationists, 9/11 troofers and conspiracy fans like you.

  30. 30.

    zmulls

    March 19, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    There’s nothing in the Constitution that says you’re guaranteed to have water

  31. 31.

    Jules

    March 19, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    @zmulls: That “but he will want to see the final bill before commiting” is just such a bunch of weasel word BS.

  32. 32.

    Chyron HR

    March 19, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Find me one legitimate number in the CBO scoring that wasn’t fabricated by accounting gimmicks.

    Wouldn’t it save time for you to tell us one number in the CBO scoring that WAS fabricated by accounting gimmicks?

    Surely you already have proof of these gimmicks or you wouldn’t be saying it, right?

  33. 33.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 19, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Wait, it saves money. The only reason reducing the cost of health care will bankrupt us is if the Republicans get back in charge and decide that all that money needs to be returned to the people in the form of tax cuts for the rich.

  34. 34.

    Neutron Flux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Amerika

    You spelled this wrong. – 2pts.

  35. 35.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    @FormerSwingVoter:

    The constituion does not give the government the authority to create a health care insurance exchange, a public option, or anything else. Nor does it give the government the ability to mandate that all people buy a good or service.

    The Supreme Court has said that “the exact text” must be approved by both houses of Congress and if not, the law violates article 1, section 7. It’s very clear:

    http://www.politicalamorality.com/ahem-article-1-section-7

  36. 36.

    jeffreyw

    March 19, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    @FormerSwingVoter: I’ve used that, it works great.

  37. 37.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    @Chyron HR:

    We can start with the 940 billion cost. Want to explain the 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits gimmick?

  38. 38.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Go Amerika!

    Looks like he studied at the “Moran Skool for Spellyng.”

  39. 39.

    Xenos

    March 19, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: It is a really tired complaint. After bitching about how the bill had to save money according to the CBO, now that the CBO supports the bill it is just proof that, in the words of McArblegarble the CBO has been “gamed” and is now meaningless.

    So take this Kevin – If the bill does indeed cost money, that is OK because we are going to raise taxes on people just like you to pay for it. The we are going to laugh at you as we go out for our taxpayer funded gay abortions. Silly peasant!

  40. 40.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Teabagger troll on the White House’s facebook feed was talking about how they are trying to “shove this up our a%$”. Between teabagging, ass-item-shoving and throat-item-ramming, do they have a single way of relating to anything other than homoerotic analogies? Are they going to start talking about how they need to take a wide stance against this?

  41. 41.

    Jeff

    March 19, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    I called my congresscritter, Paul Tonko D-NY21, who is on the side of the angels on this one. and spoke to a very sweet staffer who said they’re getting a lot of calls. I told her to buck up, it’ll all be over in a couple of days– she laughed. I think a phone call like this can help a lot.

  42. 42.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    @Neutron Flux:

    Are you seriously that dense?

  43. 43.

    zmulls

    March 19, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    @Jules

    Yup. Very weaselly. So my message was, get out in front instead of bringing up the rear. I’m sure I was very effective. Not.

  44. 44.

    Xenos

    March 19, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: So what? It is called paying for something. We could try irresponsible deficit spending like a bunch of republicans, but that would be acting like assholes.

  45. 45.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    @FormerSwingVoter:
    I used MyFax for awhile and it worked great too. At the time they gave one month free. I eventually canceled the service and had a little problem with the online canceling, but when I called them their customer service guy took care of it without any problems. I think there was some computer glitch when I tried to cancel online.

  46. 46.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Call congresscritters. Ignore trollcritters. Eyes on the prize. This blog is not “the public.” C’mon.

  47. 47.

    Chyron HR

    March 19, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    We can start with the 940 billion cost.

    Okay, go for it. Show us the math that proves it won’t cost 940 billion. Actual math.

  48. 48.

    dmhlt

    March 19, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    I have no idea if Table formatting HTML Code is supported – so I apologize in advance if this is just a waste of space.
    But since I think it’s that important that we try – I’ll give it a go:

    Name (State-District) Phone Address FAX
    Rep. John Adler (D-NJ-3)
    (202) 225-4765 The Honorable John Adler
    1223 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3003 (202) 225-0778
    Rep. Jason Altmire (D-PA-4)
    (202) 225-2565 The Honorable Jason Altmire
    332 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3804 (202) 226-2274
    Rep. Michael Arcuri (D-NY-24)
    (202) 225-3665 The Honorable Michael A. Arcuri
    127 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3224 (202) 225-1891
    Rep. Brian Baird (D-WA-3)
    (202) 225-3536 The Honorable Brian Baird
    2350 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4703 (202) 225-3478
    Rep. John Boccieri (D-OH-16)
    (202) 225-3876 The Honorable John A. Boccieri
    1516 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3516 (202) 225-3059
    Rep. Chris Carney (D-PA-10)
    (202) 225-3731 The Honorable Christopher P. Carney
    416 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3810 (202) 225-9594
    Rep. Travis Childers (D-MS-1)
    (202) 225-4306 The Honorable Travis W. Childers
    1708 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-2401 (202) 225-3549
    Rep. Jerry Costello (D-IL-12)
    (202) 225-5661 The Honorable Jerry F. Costello
    2408 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-1312 (202) 225-0285
    Rep. Lincoln Davis (D-TN-4)
    (202) 225.6831 The Honorable Lincoln Davis
    410 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4204 (202) 226-5172
    Rep. Mike Doyle (D-PA-14)
    (202) 225-2135 The Honorable Mike Doyle
    401 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3814 (202) 225-3084
    Rep. Brad Ellsworth (D-IN-8)
    (202) 225-4636 The Honorable Brad Ellsworth
    513 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-1408 (202) 225-3284
    Rep. Baron Hill (D-IN-9)
    (202) 225-5315 The Honorable Baron Hill
    223 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-1409 (202) 226-6866
    Rep. Bart Gordon (D-TN-6)
    (202) 225-4231 The Honorable Bart Gordon
    2306 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4206 (202) 225-6887
    Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick (D-AZ-1)
    (202) 225-2315 The Honorable Ann Kirkpatrick
    1123 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-0301 (202) 226-9739
    Rep. Suzanne Kosmas (D-FL-24)
    (202) 225-2706 The Honorable Suzanne Kosmas
    238 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-0924 (202) 226-6299
    Rep. Dan Maffei (D-NY-25)
    (202) 225-3701 The Honorable Dan Maffei
    1630 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3225 (202) 225-4042
    Rep. Jim Matheson (D-UT-2)
    (202) 225-3011 The Honorable Jim Matheson
    2434 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4402 (202) 225-5638
    Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV-1)
    (202) 225-4172 The Honorable Alan B. Mollohan
    2302 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4801 (202) 225-7564
    Rep. Scott Murphy (D-NY-20)
    (202) 225-5614 The Honorable Scott Murphy
    120 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3220 (202) 225-1168
    Rep. Glenn Nye (D-VA-2)
    (202) 225-4215 The Honorable Glenn Nye
    116 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4602 (202) 225-4218
    Rep. Bill Owens (D-NY-23)
    (202) 225-4611 The Honorable Bill Owens
    2366 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3223 (202) 226-0621
    Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND-At Large)
    (202) 225-2611 The Honorable Earl Pomeroy
    1501 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3401 (202) 226-0893
    Rep. Zack Space (D-OH-18)
    (202) 225-6265 The Honorable Zack Space
    315 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3518 (202) 225-3394
    Rep. John Tanner (D-TN-8)
    (202) 225-4714 The Honorable John Tanner
    1226 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-4208 (202) 225-1765
    Rep. Harry Teague (D-NM-2)
    (202) 225-2365 The Honorable Harry Teague
    1007 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, D.C. 20515-3102 (202) 225-9599

  49. 49.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    @Xenos:

    So taxing people for 10 years and giving them benefits for 6 so you can make your bill appear deficit neutral is not a gimmick?

    Ok, so what happens in the next 10 years when you have to give benefits for the full 10?

    Want to stop hiding behind the smoke and mirrors and give a logical response?

  50. 50.

    Dannie22

    March 19, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Just called Marcia Fudge’s office. She’s still reviewing the amendments and is still undecided. I told the guy that if she didn’t vote for this bill, I would not vote for her. A lot of folks in her district are upset with her.
    I’d like to know what kind of games she is playing. It’s her first term and she’s a nobody. She only got that seat because Stephanie Tubbs jones died.

  51. 51.

    Tim F.

    March 19, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    People, do not let health care distract you from the real question.

    WHERE IS THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

  52. 52.

    Flugelhorn

    March 19, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    This dog will never hunt. Breath and effort are being squandered here.

  53. 53.

    Xenos

    March 19, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Ok, so what happens in the next 10 years when you have to give benefits for the full 10?

    No problem. As I stated earlier, we will raise taxes on assholes like you, and all will be peachy.

  54. 54.

    mr. whipple

    March 19, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    So take this Kevin – If the bill does indeed cost money, that is OK because we are going to raise taxes on people just like you to pay for it. The we are going to laugh at you as we go out for our taxpayer funded gay abortions. Silly peasant!

    That is so awesome. We’re gonna ram gay abortions down their throats!

  55. 55.

    The Dangerman

    March 19, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    @jibeaux:

    Are they going to start talking about how they need to take a wide stance against this?

    They’re one wetsuit short of a great Friday night.

  56. 56.

    Neutron Flux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Sure.

    ETA But my spellchecker knows how to spell America.

  57. 57.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    @Dannie22:
    Perhaps she just wants attention from the President? Everyone saw that Dennis K. got to ride in Air Force One. If they hold out, they up their chances of getting some one-on-one time with Obama.

    Our elected Representatives are so ego-driven, it wouldn’t surprise me if this kind of thinking is behind some of their hedging.

  58. 58.

    gwangung

    March 19, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Stooopid ™.

    I could puke a better argument than this.

  59. 59.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    @Chyron HR:

    The bill is front-loaded with taxes and back-loaded with spending. The CBO scored a 10 year bill that only showed 6 years of spending.

    Second, the doc fix was left out and will be passed separately. Why? Because that would raise the cost over 1 trillion.

    Third, no government entitlement program has ever come anywhere close to the 10 year cost estimate. Most are 50+% higher.

    The list goes on and on.

  60. 60.

    tripletee

    March 19, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Oh dear. Kevin doesn’t believe the CBO. Anyone wanna bet that he wasn’t nearly as skeptical when the candy-and-flowers crowd was telling us how awesome and cheap Iraq would be? Anyone?

    Yeah, didn’t think so.

  61. 61.

    dmhlt

    March 19, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Note to Self: Table formating code is NOT supported

  62. 62.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    @gwangung:

    Then do it, instead of talking about it. Or are you just copping out because you lack an intelligent response?

    Figured.

  63. 63.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    Saturday: tickle fights, saltiness.

  64. 64.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    @tripletee:

    The CBO has to score what’s put in front of them and what was put in front of them was a year long smoke and mirrors shell game to create an artificial cost estimate.

    Do you think this just happened to come in at right under a trillion dollars by coincidence? Are you that naive?

  65. 65.

    Llelldorin

    March 19, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Kevin, you should really read the CBO report if you’re going to denounce it. They explicitly scored the second decade (albeit roughly, because it’s hard to extrapolate out that far).

    It reduces the deficit by 1.2 trillion dollars over 20 years–the deficit reductions go up in the second 10 year period, not down.

  66. 66.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    @Neutron Flux:

    I was making fun of you idiot. Jesus Christ you’re stupid.

  67. 67.

    Chyron HR

    March 19, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    The bill is front-loaded with taxes and back-loaded with spending. The CBO scored a 10 year bill that only showed 6 years of spending.

    Yes, they did. Now prove that their score is inaccurate. With actual math. You have the math, right? Copy and paste. It’s that easy.

    Third, no government entitlement program has ever come anywhere close to the 10 year cost estimate.

    Or you can just whine that everything you don’t want to hear is a lie. I guess that would also be easy.

  68. 68.

    aimai

    March 19, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Holy Moley ignore the Trolly–CNN is reporting that Cao has gone from “no” to “maybe” after his personal talk with Obama yesterday.

    This is retail politics done by a master hondler. Rahm should live so long. This and the friendly kiss on Marcy Kaptur’s cheek seem to have done more for wavering votes than you’d think possible. Hats off to Hawaii nice if Obama can flip two votes with kindness. I think there’s room in this political moment for both carrots and sticks, but the guy is really good with what he’s good with and it seems to be the carrots.

    aimai

  69. 69.

    WereBear

    March 19, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    If Troll was capable of self-reflection, Troll would ask themselves why they are dead set against Promoting the General Welfare.

    That’s in the Preamble to the Constitution. It specifically tells the government they are supposed to do that.

  70. 70.

    Flugelhorn

    March 19, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    @jibeaux:

    This blog is not “the public.” C’mon.

    I think that is the most intelligent thing I have heard in this thread. This is exactly the point. The people on this blog are so far down the rabbit hole and out of touch with the rest of the US. When you spend all of your time soaking in progressive marinade, you lose the flavor of the country as a whole.

    Even if by some miracle this thing “passes” on Sunday, there is still a long road ahead. There will be further debate on “sidecar” packages and I imagine several constitutional challenges.

  71. 71.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    @Llelldorin:

    AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…you’re fucking dense.

    They scored a bill that shows 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits and that double counted 500 billion in medicare savings TWICE. DO YOU NOT SEE HOW THAT MAY PRESENT A PROBLEM WITH CORRECT SCORING?????

    Fuck me…no wonder this country is about to drive off a cliff. The ignorance on this site is mind blowing.

  72. 72.

    gwangung

    March 19, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: You first.

    Any argument that starts “The constituion does not give the government the authority to create a health care insurance exchange, a public option, or anything else. ” is a loser argument. It ignores jurisprudence over the last 3/4 of a century.

    Try harder. Try to fit it into established court decisions.

    Until, I’ll treat your arguments with the respect they deserve.

  73. 73.

    Neutron Flux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Sheez. Now I am embarrased. Why do you make fun of me?

    Because I am dense?

  74. 74.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    @gwangung:

    Just because progressives like you have raped the Constitution with a misrepresentation of the general welfare clause and commerce clause doesn’t mean you’re right.

    If you want to be Europe so much…GO THERE AND DON’T COME BACK.

  75. 75.

    Redshift

    March 19, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    @Flugelhorn:

    There will be further debate on “sidecar” packages and I imagine several constitutional challenges.

    You mean like the one from our wingnut AG here in Virginia, who has declared that he’s definitely going to sue the federal government over it, but doesn’t have any idea on what grounds? Yeah, I expect there will be a bunch of those, since a bunch of states are governed by wingnuts.

    This is one case where I could support “loser pays” for frivolous lawsuits, but only if Cuccinelli pays personally, not the VA taxpayers.

  76. 76.

    Jules

    March 19, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:
    Troll speaks:
    blah blah blah wocka wocka wocka

  77. 77.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    @Flugelhorn:

    Really, you liked that better than the “wide stance” thing, ’cause I was kind of thinking that would be a good distraction. Well, thanks. I actually borrowed it from the troll, who seems to think that feeding him is hashing it out for “the public”. Perhaps a streak of exhibitionism to the homoeroticism, with a hint of food pron….

  78. 78.

    Llelldorin

    March 19, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Read the damned report–they score beyond the first 10 years, albeit roughly. In the second ten years the gap between the start of taxes and the start of benefits isn’t relevant.

    I’ll admit, though, that it’s amusing to be called dense by someone who very obviously hasn’t bothered to read the report that he’s criticizing.

  79. 79.

    Kevin @ Political Amorality

    March 19, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Even the simple request that one of you dumbasses explain 10 years of taxes for 6 years of spending couldn’t get an intelligent, logical, or honest response.

    Progressives are pathetic. Pass the bill and watch it get reversed by the Supreme Court. Then watch 1994 happen all over again.

    You’re all an embarrassment to America.

  80. 80.

    4tehlulz

    March 19, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: NO U

  81. 81.

    gwangung

    March 19, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Snicker, snicker. That’s all you got, ain’t it.

    Besides, wrong continent. They also have government health care, though. Cheaper cost, better results.

    Americans used to want to take the best from all systems. Now you refuse to admit anyone can do it better. Embarassing.

  82. 82.

    Tim F.

    March 19, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    For god’s sake people, where is the birth certificate?!?

  83. 83.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    They resist the Ben-wa balls of Communism that the Domicrats seek to impose on them, they cry out after the whipping of Nancy Pelosi….

    It’s not that hard, people.

  84. 84.

    John

    March 19, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Sarbanes? What is the deal with this ridiculous posturing. Who is he fooling? He’s obviously voting in favor, and I don’t understand what pretending otherwise accomplishes.

    ETA: Fudge and DeFazio too, for that matter. All of those three are obviously going to vote in favor, and everybody knows it. I don’t understand what they think this kind of nonsense is going to accomplish.

  85. 85.

    Mike Kay

    March 19, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality: Did you freak out in 2003 when Bush pushed through a $1.2 trillion prescription drug plan, ALL of it unpaid for?

  86. 86.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    @aimai:

    CNN is reporting that Cao has gone from “no” to “maybe” after his personal talk with Obama yesterday.

    This is big news. Obama really is good at retail politics. Cao would be smart to vote yes. His district isn’t exactly conservative.

  87. 87.

    Genine

    March 19, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I just called Diana DeGette’s office and I, too, got the “she’s very supportive of health care but wants to read the bill carefully before deciding her vote, etc.” Yesterday, her office had more angry phone calls. Today is a mix. If you live in CO-1 district and support health care reform, give her a call.

    Thanks!

    PTDB

  88. 88.

    Cain

    March 19, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    @Jules:

    I just heard on NPR that Rep. Peter DeFazio from Oregon has switched to no.

    uh whut?!! Peter DeFazio is a fairly liberal and safe house seat. There should be no reason for him to vote no on health care reform. He’s known as a pretty good progressive so I’m not sure why he’s saying know. That said, David Wu from Oregon is leaning towards voting for the bill. They confirm that a lot of tea baggers have been calling them.

    Maybe it is time for me to give Peter DeFazio a call…

    cain

  89. 89.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    I wonder if people like Kevin have joined the Stop Medicare movement, since it’s soshulized medicine and all.

  90. 90.

    Genine

    March 19, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Btw, I LOVE how spending $940 billion over TEN years will bankrupt us, but spending $940 billion + in ONE year for blowing shit up won’t.

  91. 91.

    dr. bloor

    March 19, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    @Tim F.:

    Who wants to test whether he’s immune to logic?

    Talk about an unnecessary diagnostic procedure.

  92. 92.

    jibeaux

    March 19, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    The size of Obama’s package intimidates them.

  93. 93.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 19, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    @gwangung: And that’s the entire winger argument: Europe does it, so we can’t. If it’s happening in Europe it must be socialist, and therefore bad, because somehow, not getting socialist cooties is the goal, not continually trying to improve ourselves as a nation and make everyone’s lives the best possible.

  94. 94.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 19, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    @Violet: I had an old high school friend tell me that she thinks medicare needs to go away because of that whole self-reliance thing and all, while she collects a paycheck and get health care in the US Navy.

  95. 95.

    Violet

    March 19, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):
    Did you mention that little fact to her? Seems like everyone who is taking the government’s money has some sort of justification for it – “But I fought for my country – they owe me!” or “I’m old and I couldn’t get health insurance elsewhere!” or “I lost my job and I deserve unemployment!”

    Doing without seems to be for everyone else.

  96. 96.

    Bobby Thomson

    March 19, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    @dr. bloor: Win.

  97. 97.

    cleek

    March 19, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    They scored a bill that shows 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits and that double counted 500 billion in medicare savings TWICE.

    i for one, always defer to pseudonymous internet dilettante trolls, especially when it comes to evaluating the cost of huge and complicated pieces of legislation.

    after all, it’s a well-known fact that professional economists and analysts are terrible at dealing with numbers, and are notorious for doing things like double counting 500B items.

  98. 98.

    GReynoldsCT00

    March 19, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Chris Murphy from CT is now in the ‘yes’ column, just spoke with his office

  99. 99.

    martha

    March 19, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    @Tim F.: It’s being hidden in a vault on Niihau by now…the native Hawaiians are protecting it…

  100. 100.

    CalD

    March 19, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    I received an e-mail from the DSCC earlier today asking for a donation. The reply-to address was [email protected], so I sent them back this response:

    For what it’s worth, I have a little money set aside to give $100 each to the DSCC, the DCCC, and the DNC, plus $50 each for my congressman Joe Courtney and the Connecticut Democratic Victory fund. I am planning to make contributions to all of the above *except* the DSCC on the day the House passes the senate health care reform bill.
    __
    I will proudly send the DSCC a contribution on the day the senate passes the sidecar reconciliation bill to amend their original health care reform bill. However if none of those things happen, then not only will I not be contributing one red cent to any Democratic campaign for federal office this year, I would not swear at this moment that I will bother showing up to vote in November.
    __
    I am saying this to you not as some right- or left-wing extremist or malcontent, but as hard-nosed pragmatist and a lifelong yellow dog Democrat who has pulled a straight ticket in almost every federal election in the last 30 years. If you guys screw this up, I’m all through with you.
    __
    Sincerely,
    __
    [CalD]

  101. 101.

    celticdragonchick

    March 19, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Fuck me…no wonder this country is about to drive off a cliff. The ignorance on this site is mind blowing.

    Thank you for demonstrating that personally in such vivid detail.

    Unthinking and unreflexive political hackery is always amusing to watch.

  102. 102.

    tripletee

    March 19, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    @Kevin @ Political Amorality:

    Do you think this just happened to come in at right under a trillion dollars by coincidence? Are you that naive?

    Let’s say I’m building a house, and I have a set budget amount in mind. I spend a year doing research and removing/adjusting features to get the costs in line. (Needless to say, I will cut whatever else is necessary to keep the granite countertops in.) Then I go to the contractor and the quote I get is close to my budget. CONSPIRACY!!

    The fact that the anti-HRC trolls are so droolingly stupid gives me hope that we might actually get this thing done.

  103. 103.

    CalD

    March 19, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Speaking of trolls, shouldn’t there be a lot more of them out by now? Whither the great right-wing troll herds of yesteryear?

  104. 104.

    John S.

    March 19, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    If you want to be Europe so much…GO THERE AND DON’T COME BACK.

    How precious. The little troll things George W. Bush is still in office and anyone gives a rat’s ass about his faux-patriotic ultimatums.

    The majority rules, elections have consequences, Obama is everyone’s president blah blah blah…if you don’t like America, GET OUT!

  105. 105.

    Yutsano

    March 19, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): That is so WIN! I’m so glad I’m not at work otherwise I’d be getting stared at right now I’m laughing so hard.

  106. 106.

    Ouish

    March 19, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    I’m delurking because, as it happens, John Hall is my representative. I had assumed he was a sure Yes, and I was sufficiently alarmed by this post to actually get up and make my first congressional phone call. While speaking to the staffer, I mentioned hearing that they’d been getting a lot of calls from HCR opponents, and he told that actually most of the calls they’ve been getting today have been in favor.

    Go netroots!

  107. 107.

    Sarah in Brooklyn

    March 19, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    i called my dad who lives in Woodstock and is very active poltically. he’ll get the word out and make some calls himself.

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