As Democrats frantically tried to cobble together votes to pass their sweeping health care reform legislation Saturday, House Republicans began a victory lap of sorts.
First, in a meeting of the House Republican Conference, the GOP’s leadership rallied the troops with flourishing rhetoric about regaining the majority in the fall.
“I don’t know, quite frankly, whether victory will come on the third Sunday in March or on the first Tuesday in November, but victory will come,” House Republican Conference leader Mike Pence of Indiana told Republicans Saturday afternoon.
They honestly think they are going to take back the house despite the fact that the bill they claimed would kill America passed. The numbers for Democrats will only go up if this bill passes.
It’s Mike Pence. What else would you expect?
This is the downside of being so tactically effective: they really don’t know where reality is.
I mean, the people they’ve organized to call Congress outnumber HCR supporters, so there MUST be a large majority on their side of the issue, right?
West of the Cascades
The GOP are delusional, and I feel soiled by having clicked on a Politico link.
I’ve eliminated the stain from my soul by buying a “Feed” t-shirt.
I can’t wait for them to campaign on the promise of repealing HCR.
“Hey, you know how you can keep your children on your health insurance now until they’re 26? We’ll take that burden away from you! And the ban on pre-existing conditions? We’ll remove that crushing oppression as well! Hey, seniors! Do you miss the donut hole in Medicare D? We’ll throw that cost back in your laps! You’re welcome, America!”
Not only will the numbers for the Democrats go up, but the out-of-control behavior of the Republican’s teabagging paramilitary forces is not going to help the GOP one bit.
Mike Pence needs to lay off the salvia divenorum, his hallucinations are not leading to enlightenment.
Ahhh, the smell of 10 million brackets being busted.
If Politico were a news outlet, it would be surprising that they consider this “news,” but since they aren’t, it isn’t.
Hey now…don’t associate something peaceful and positive (even if it is a legal entheogen) with Mike Pence…
@Dave L: This is why Fox News has ultimately been a liability for them. They may have solidified ( i.e. brainwashed) their base, but at the price of being held prisoners in their own private, Kim Jong-Ill crazy land.
And seriously? Peak wingnut was not a lie. It’s like God Herself – we just lack the ability to comprehend Her all at once, that’s all.
I very often talk to people about this bill, and even a lot of people who are pretty liberal start out against it until I start talking about what’s actually in it. One guy I know, who works as a Nurse Practitioner dealing with cancer patients (kids), didn’t know that it banned rescission! Then, they often say that this all sounds great, but they doubt it’ll actually happen the way the Democrats claim it will.
When these people see these things in action, they will love what Barack Obama has done here.
@John Cole: I thought you were sworn off Politcrack.
It’s bad enough reading it BTW. You only compound the sin by giving them a link.
– Matthew Yglesias, 2008
The whole post is worth reading.
Pence is an evolution-denier.
but in the end, all the preening is for the press.
remember in the summer 2008 how they held a candlelight session in the house chamber. They’re all about stunts.
Just saw this a TPM, Capuano of MA is now a yes.
Just read that Stewart Udall died (RIP–he did a lot for conservation in the US). Is that going to fuck up HCR by his two Senator sons leaving D.C. for a funeral?
Oh John, didn’t you remember? They’re all going to campaign on the inspiring plan put forward by that leader of Republicans, Paul Ryan. You know, abolish Social Security, give out vouchers for Medicare that are worth about 20 cents on the dollar, and tax cuts for the top 10 percent… /s
I really don’t understand why they thought Democrats would react to “we don’t want you to vote for this because it will mean that we will win in the fall.” Except for the fact that Dems on the hill tend to be easily frightened.
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, that post is one of my favorites, and part of the basis I often use for answering people who (reasonably) say “Pence can’t possibly be that stupid and be a congressman, can he?”
To paraphrase Barack Obama, yes he can!
I can’t wait for the wingnut AGs to start challenging it (on what grounds?). I think in the end the Republican congressional candidates will veer away from the repeal thing but some of the state AGs are crazy and unaccountable enough to actually try it.
Where’s our “Good News For John McCain” tag?
It’s the Republican mantra. The FOX Newsies were playing Bagdad Bob right up into the morning of November 5th in 2006 and 2008. And given that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, I’m sure they’ll hit a few electoral predictions right.
I honestly don’t see Democrats picking up additional seats this year. We’ve got some deep red seats we probably can’t keep. And we aren’t running on Howard Dean’s fifty state strategy like we used to be, so I don’t see any crazy pick-ups in Alabama or Oklahoma.
And then we’ve also got a bunch of unreliable Blue Dogs who are going to be running as Republican Lite during another “throw the bums out” election year, with Tea Baggers out in force.
I think the GOP can narrow our lead in House and Senate. But retaking anything is going to be a stretch. Ultimately, I’m curious to see whether the Tea Baggers show up in support of the GOP en mass or not.
That was DougJ, I believe. You can only save one soul at a time.
When the SCOTUS overturned Citizens United, all bets went off. I’m still waiting for habeus corpus and the federal income tax to be declared unconstitutional. It’s just a matter of time with the jokers we’ve got on the bench.
“They honestly think they are going to take back the house despite the fact that the bill they claimed would kill America passed.”
Well, it hasn’t passed yet. A couple of Dems still seem determined to snatch the football of victory away.
Veteran, Great War of Yankee Aggression
I think the more serious thinkers in the GOP (meaning the ones who don’t believe their own shit) understand all too well that when HCR becomes a reality, it will become as popular as Medicare, and they will spend the next generation swearing to defend it.
I wonder if they also get Ronald Brownstein’s analysis that Obama is changing the trajectory of Washington, reframing the debate about government, away from the “center-right” meme, to one where government is able to do things right.
Which is like talking quantum physics to the Bachman crowd, but I suspect the Rovians are genuinely terrified.
like all “good urinalists” they saved the meat of the “article” for the last:
Well, in his defense, his existence seems to be evidence against evolution.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
They will drop back to their trusty failsafe plan. That is to drive us all crazy with round the clock dumbfuck wingnuttery till America says uncle and puts them back in power.
There have been days the past year where they about had me, and you too John Cole. The permanent encore is coming that will make baby jeevus jump up and down and fill his diaper with Starbursts.
@MikeJ: it’s to whip up the base. they’re trying to manufacture energy with these melodramas.
Polling, maybe. But I’m dubious if you’re referring to Congressional and/or Senate seats. I’d love to see the majority increase, but who knows if that’s going to happen?
That said, taking a bow after the year long cacophony that was the GOP effort to derail HCR, and then losing sounds right in Pence’s wheelhouse.
If I were Pelosi, Monday morning, I would be on the phone with Senate leaders and Chris Dodd, mapping out hardcore Financial reform and then planning to announce sweeping Immigration reform on May 5. Just to watch the opposition immolate.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
The only way they can do any more damage than they’ve already done is if they actually get back in power. I can’t see how the House could get any trashier, or the Senate more obstructed. The GOP is pulling out every last stop, and it’s been on Outrage Mode 11 for the last year, non-stop.
Gail Collins nailed it today:
Except for the fact that the short term political consequences will be increased popularity and energy for Dems and reduced for Rethugs.
@Loneoak: Son and nephew. The senators Udall are first cousins.
There’s no way the family of Mo and Stewart Udall would allow a funeral to screw up a vote. I imagine the funeral will be later in the week.
That’s it, you’re hereby forbidden to link to Politico. Since I’m a liberal and therefore scheme to control every waking hour of your life, I can order you to do this. The Politburo will back me up on this too.
@Mike Kay: Loved when Tweety mocked him to his face on that.
This was one of Tweety’s finest moments.
Pence is totally anti-science. Fuckstick.
I’ve read a few Daydream Believers on non-political forums today who think the Supreme Court will put a stop to all this and Save America. The pull of the Wingularity grows stronger…
You know we sort of expect this rhetoric from the likes of Pence, Cantor, Boehner, etc. On the other hand it’s really disusting to have to contend with the bashing from the same side of the party. Maybe some will find this not to be bashing and could put another adjective on it.
Deedee Myers was on CNN a little while ago giving pointers to President Obama – “He has to get out among the people more. He needs to feel their pain”. This really ticked me off.
@Zifnab25: I’m counting on the teabaggers to fuck up the GOP primaries and weed out the sane.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
The GOP has painted themselves into a corner. After months of pinning their electoral chances on nonstop obstruction to everything Obama and the Democrats put forth, what else can they do now that reform is about to pass besides pretend that health reform passage is good for their election prospects? They certainly can’t go before the American people and say “Gee, guys; we wasted 15 months blocking historical legislation to make your lives better out of our own, shameless self-interest but now that its gonna succeed regardless you should at least give us credit for sticking together and staying committed to our goals?”
@HRA: DeeDee is always concern trolling Obama. She’s the Harold Ford of ex press-secretaries.
God, John’s going to be busy with an unhappy Tunch for a couple of weeks. Cats hate change. (they hate Obama!) We moved earlier this year and it took months to get them acclimated.
Yup, and in 2016, all the GOP presidential hopefuls will be saying they were for HCR at the time.
I caught about 15 minutes of that Republican meeting. It was nuts. They were acting like they’d won. Smiles all around. I guess they figure HCR is just in its last throes.
They just won’t admit that health care has improved their lives. How many elderly “farmers” are there collecting VA and SS checks AND checks for not actively farming their lands while going on about sockializzm and guvment innerfurance? At least one in my family. Blind as a bat, sitting in his trailer with his NRA posters and live weaponry, protecting midstate IL from the illegal hordes.
Leelee for Obama
@TR: Try to be gentle, after all Pence has to contend with Farmer’s Markets in Indiana that are like Baghdad markets of two years ago. It’s PTSD, have some compassion.
@Rommie: There was a post that another regular here pointed everyone to over at RedState, where it was confidently predicted that within three days after passing HCR, the Supreme Court would overturn it. And if it didn’t, there would be armed revolution. It was pretty sad, particularly when you looked at the number of people over there who recommended it and commented favorably on it.
@dr. bloor: LOL! My bad. Thanks for clearing that up.
Healthy skepticism is, um, healthy. It’s not a bad thing to be leery of dramatic promises made on behalf of any sweeping program, by either party.
But when someone starts going on about increased gubmint bureaucracy in HCR, I respond by saying, “I agree. That worries me too. In fact, there’s only one thing that scares me more, and that’s having those same decisions being made by a claims adjuster at my insurance company whose annual performance bonus depends on how many customer claims he can deny this quarter.”
That kinda shuts ’em up.
Leelee for Obama
@chrismealy: I was unaware of Republican affinity for hallucinogenics. That’s a possible explanation though. also, too
@HRA: DD sucks. Since she was FIRED by Clinton back in 1994, she hasn’t worked in politics again. Her ability is crap.
By about Thursday, the only person in America in worse political shape than any Republican will be Jane Hamsher. Perhaps her new friend Grover Norquist can console her.
I can understand how desperate you all are for some/any sort of reform of your hc. But I have to ask, is forcing(mandating) everyone purchase insurance really going to help, and are they really stopping recission(?)? It really concerns me that the insurance companies and phrma have had such input into this that nothing will really change and that any bad conequences will make further improvements almost impossible.
This really is a great country, isn’t it?
I caught the tail end of Obama’s speech to the dem caucus live and read the transcript later, but when I read that Howie Kurtz (ugh!) said it was the most emotional speech of Obama’s he’d seen, I decided to watch the video. All I can say is wow. I thought it was very powerful but in a more understated way than the recent rallies etc. Obviously, I’m not objective, but neither was the audience. I don’t know how anyone in that audience could vote no after that. Yeah, I know, I’m naive etc etc.
@Leelee for Obama:
First, thanks for asking your question in a civil and non-trollish way.
The mandate is actually necessary and integral to ending rescission, otherwise, high-risk patients that insurance companies don’t want to pay out on could just be dropped into an impossibly expensive pool outside the parameters of this legislation. Or they could just be neglected altogether. By putting everyone in the same overall risk pool, regardless of which company insures each individual, it holds the companies to the same standard.
Leelee for Obama
@Snarky Pickles: That explains it all, Thanks! And I love your handle!!!!
They declared in populist, militant near-fascist style that they would stop this Obama bill.
They’re about to lose.
But this simultaneously means they look like weak losers.
You can’t keep up a populist angry-semi-fascist movement based on the rhetoric of authoritarian power if you keep getting your ass kicked by a librul black dood with a Mooozlim name.
Just to make it clear, I am a big supporter of universal hc. And so wish you could all have access to a system similar to the one we have(although far from perfect, compared to yours it is superb).
@freelancer: Hell, over the past 18 months they’ve been posing as the defenders of medicare and whipping up angry mobs of seniors by claiming that the Democratic party wants to cut their benefits. Just when you think they can’t sink any lower, they always find a way.
There are few who want this bill to pass more than moi, but as David Dayen and Nate S. and others are pointing out, Pelosi’s math is still difficult. I’d hold off on the champagne until the President’s signature, folks.
@Debbie(aussie): Hey, if we were Australia, with its political environment, we’d probably be more like Australia. Since we’re not, and more like the US, with a pretty weirdly exceptional political history among modern Western industrial nations, we have to deal with who we are, and who we’ve been.
@chrismealy: So I missed that, but what’s interesting about what you say, the Democratic meeting was really… it was very like a pep rally, it was all “we are going to do this” positive thinking. And it made sense they’d want to do that because you could kinda tell, they were trying to try to create positive images, project certainty to try to kind of force the remaining people in line.
But it doesn’t seem to make really as much sense for the same mood to be at the republican rally, right? Because nothing they do will have any impact on the process tomorrow at all. If they’re fired up it will not change things at all from if they’re despondent. Success or victory is determined by the number of Democrats on board, the Republicans have no ability to effect the outcome. They already tried absolute solidity and all it did was cut them out of the process.
@mcc: It makes sense to me; put on a big show of lockstep unity to intimidate the Dems who are still wavering and perhaps scare enough of them to scuttle the bill.
It would appear that Nancy Pelosi may have bigger stones than Rahm Emanuel.
Lockstep or goosestep?
Yes, it will make rescission illegal.
Specifically it says:
‘‘(f) RESCISSION.—A health insurance issuer may re-
11 scind group health insurance coverage only upon clear and
12 convincing evidence of fraud described in subsection
13 (b)(2), under procedures that provide for independent, ex-
14 ternal third-party review.’’.
‘(f) RESCISSION.—A health insurance issuer may re-
19 scind individual health insurance coverage only upon clear
20 and convincing evidence of fraud described in subsection
21 (b)(2), under procedures that provide for independent, ex-
22 ternal third-party review.’’
So even though it still is technically legal, you’d have to commit fraud to trigger it, and fraud is not the same thing as you forgot to list acne.
@Snarky Pickles: Yes. ;-)
My concern is the length of time it will take for aspects of the bill to come online. What will be in place by November that Dems can point at and say, “We did this for you”? I keep thinking of the credit card “reform” we got – Dems gave the credit card companies several months to do their worst, and they did. If the same thing happens with health insurance, Republicans will have no problems repealing it.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
No denial for pre existing conditions and no rescission, to name just a couple of provisions that will be in effect before November.
Seconding the General, here are several vital, easy-to-understand, we-all-agree-on provisions that go into effect either immediately, or at the beginning of 2011. It’s a big win if the Dems work at selling it — which I really think they “get” now that they have to.
It takes a while to implement legislation this big. Just the reality. It will just have to be dealth with and the whole regulatory process that enacts the legislation as well…
Our mandate’s better, but compulsory enrolment in a govt. health system’s not going to get the required majorities to pass in the US. Getting companies to do it works in a number of the European countries.
Essentially what the exchanges do is give all the unemployed, people without insurance, and small businesses access to the current government health insurance plan. While run at the state level, most of the control is held by the Health and Human Services Secretary. While the regulations imposed by the Secretary aren’t quite European-standard, they’re a lot more solid than the current regulation of the US insurance market.
From what I’ve read in polls, people in the US who haven’t been screwed over by their insurance company are by-and-large happy with their insurance. This legislation gives everyone access to insurance, and adds a whole heap of regulations to lessen or prevent the screwing-over insurance companies can do. Very few people should be worse off under this system, and a lot of people will be better off.