It will be interesting to see what the Reasonoids make of this:
VANDERBOEGH: I am telling you we are motivated to break windows, we feel a deadly threat from the Federal government and the orders that the Democrat party has given us. […]
COLMES: You’re telling people to break the windows of Democratic headquarters. You’re telling people to commit acts of vandalism. You’re supporting breaking the law.
VANDERBOEGH: May I tell you my personal motive for doing this? I’m trying to save the lives of Nancy Pelosi, and every one of these people who do not understand the unintended consequences of their actions. […] Because they are not paying attention to the million of people across this deepening divide that politics no longer avails them. […] We refuse to participate in the system, and we refuse to pay the fines, and we refuse arrest. Now where do you suppose that’s going but a thousand little Waco’s.
Sentient Puddle
Aw, how cute…he thinks he’s reenacting Do The Right Thing.
Morbo
Well, April 19th is looking like it will be rather eventful.
Nikki
My apologies for posting this here, but David Frum has been booted out of AEI.
licensed to kill time
Enhanced Protest Techniques tag is coming in real handy these days, no? Also, I don’t think he’s too clear on the Waco outcome.
MNPundit
Sometime in the next 6 years if Obama is re-elected, the Rightwing will attempt a rising.
And then we will make them pay. Removing them seems to be the only way to end this. If they want to bring it, then they should go ahead. We’ll give them all they want.
mcc
We are breaking Nancy Pelosi’s windows to express our deep concern for her. But by pointing out that we are breaking her windows, she is fanning the flames of violence!
Michael
Now that there’s an Ernst Rohm, I’m looking for a heroic Corporal who was a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom (CONUS mess hall table cleanup division – OOHrah!) to step up and claim the mantle of leadership.
Palin will jump on that shit like Evita on Peron.
MacsenMifune
So he’s a terrorist.
Zifnab
@Nikki: Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
mistermix
You mean there will be thousands of compounds where a cult leader fucks underage girls he calls “wives”?
Michael
Dick Cheney’s Jericho play is probably in motion.
Chyron HR
Maybe he means they’re going to start shooting police officers.
Rick Taylor
I kind of knew intellectually if and when health care reform passed, the right wing would have to become even more frighteningly deranged than it was already, but I couldn’t imagine what that could look like. Now we’re seeing it.
scav
Yeah, I saw that “love pat” you just gave your little brother. I know you were just joking. I know, it’s mommy’s job to be mean. Time out, 10 minutes. Now. On the stairs. 10 whole minutes. I’m putting it on the timer. Of course you hate me. Sit. Down.
Michael
He’s white. By definition, that cannot be.
Citizen_X
How the fuck is that supposed to work? Can I try that now?
“I’m sorry, officer, but I’m going to have to refuse arrest.”
“Oh? That’s nice.” ZAP! TASE!
“Ow ow ow!”
Citizen Alan
Are we allowed to call them traitors yet?
Zifnab
@mistermix: Catholic uprising? No, wait. That was little boys.
I really do encourage wingers to embrace that Waco metaphor though. It seems very apt.
Mark S.
But Vanderboegh integrated the militias or something. He’s one of the good guys.
mcc
@Nikki: Well you know a movement has to have standards.
Comrade Dread
So stalwart patriots will be claiming divinity, marrying teenagers, and stocking up on illegal weaponry behind closed compounds?
In all seriousness, though, this is bulls***. If you wanted to save lives, you could just as easily say, “this is not the end of the world or the end of America. Calm down and get organized for your favorite Republican candidate and we’ll do our best to stop this nonsense before it’s fully implemented in 2014.”
Not, “The process has failed us, we don’t have a voice, blood of tyrants, here’s their addresses, lock and load, and ZOMG! No one could have predicted violence…”
kommrade reproductive vigor
He misspelled whackos.
Joshua Norton
A thousand little Wacos
You spelled “Whackos” wrong.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
Teabaggers=Weathermen/Black Panthers of the ’10s
Honestly, they’re going to have to run out of crazy at some point. I’m interested to see what’ll happen after the next Democratic victory.
El Cid
A “thousand little Wacos”? Well, how little? I mean, are they going to build dioramas of Waco and send them to people? Have a shootout with Nerf bullets and shine red light on a dollhouse to simulate flames? What?
But what the dude seems to me to be suggesting is the “jackbooted thugs” story — i.e., he and all his daring allies will hole up in their homes and not pay their horrendous ‘mandate’ fines and this will provoke the Obama martial law government into sending thousands of IRS agents to surround their 1 story ranch houses with hybrid, vegetable oil fueled tanks and they’ll have to scream out with a bullhorn that no copper’s gonna take them alive.
So, my guess is that he’s trying to say that by throwing bricks through windows & shit, this will scare the federal government out of sending tanks and troops in to kill thousands of citizens simply for refusing to pay a tax for not having health care.
You know, because a murderous, martial government about to kill thousands of people for not paying a tax fee is going to be deterred by a few bricks through windows.
Michael
Why do you hate Murka, the Troops or Sweet Baby Jesus?
Also.
bkny
ya gotta love this – via kaplan daily:
Vanderboegh said he once worked as a warehouse manager but now lives on government disability checks. He said he receives $1,300 a month because of his congestive heart failure, diabetes and hypertension. He has private health insurance through his wife, who works for a company that sells forklift products.
Mark S.
@Rick Taylor:
Get ready for immigration reform.
sukabi
A Thousand little WACKOS
fixed your typo John…
well I see I’m late to the party, but of the same mind. :-)
Violet
If Mr. Vanderboegh refuses to participate in the system, he can just stop accepting those social security disability checks right now. That would work out just fine.
Why does no one in the media mention that and call him on his crap?
MTiffany
@Citizen Alan: Whether we’re allowed to call them traitors or not, they are — and they have been for a long, long time.
Zifnab
@Citizen Alan: By failing to rise up and assault political leaders and public servants, it’s YOU who are the traitor.
Was George Washington a traitor when he marches his armies against the British? Was Sam Adams a traitor when he nailed the 99 Thesises to the King of England’s door? Was Patrick Henry a traitor when he smelled a rat and demanded liberty or death? Heck no!
I wrap myself in this burning flag because I love this country too damn much. Unlike you damn hippies.
El Cid
@Mark S.: I agree. The immigration reform debate will make TeaTard summer seem like a quiet Sunday afternoon in the magazine section of the public library.
danimal
A thousand Wacos or a thousand wackos? Nevermind, there are millions of wackos.
Is it just me or does his logic sound like the archetypical spouse-beater? “I only hit you (or threw a brick) because I care so much about you and I don’t want to see you get hurt…”
Josh Huaco
It was Elk, dammit, not Waco.
(sigh)
MTiffany
@Zifnab: LOL, wrapped in a burning flag. Would you by chance also be nailed to a burning cross as well?
Also?
Rick Taylor
It’s a small point, but after going through the hell of having a bunch of nuts lead my country into a war under a completely false causus belli that killed hundreds of thousands of lives, create millions of refuges, and cost hundreds of billions of dollars, having gone through all that while taking for granted that of course the system was legitimate and I had to fight through political means, I can’t tell you how angry I feel when now that it’s conservatives who aren’t getting their way, calls to violence are suddenly entirely justifiable just because people feel really bad.
danimal
Oh jeez, take one phone call and the whole posting community beats me to the wacko joke…you folks are quick.
Davis X. Machina
All those people in Texas died because they refused to participate in a scheme under which their money was going to be used to subsidize health care for shiftless n*gg*rs? I don’t remember it going down quite that way.
bemused
He’s just a concerned citizen trying to save the lives of Pelosi & others who know not what they do. I suppose he expects a medal.
Fern
@mcc: I used to be married to someone who used that line of “reasoning”. Amazing how that dynamics of this stuff look exactly like those in an abusive relationship – “NOW see what you made me do!”
gex
@Citizen_X: You assume the police forces are on the American government’s side, and not with the insurrection. I’m not so sure…
scav
The (de)Evolution of the Contemporary Republican Party: From a Thousand points of Light to a Thousand Points of Wacko, 2010.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@bkny: Christ why doesn’t he brand RAVING HYPOCRITE across his forehead and have done with it?
And I’m sure it goes without saying that a chronically ill dude talking about how “we” are going to do jack except take some pills and go to the damn doctor or a fricking HOOT.
It would be hilarious if Obama told every who didn’t want to “participate in the system” was excused from paying federal taxes if they did not accept or use anything paid for by federal funds.
MattR
Anyone else thinking of Kathy Bates in Misery?
kay
@Violet:
I agree. It’s hard to qualify for disability SSI. He went to lots of hearings. Filled out a lot of forms.
He was happy to participate in ‘the system” then.
Not that it matters, for him. He’s eligible for either Medicare and Medicaid, depending on his situation.
He’s talking tough with a gubmint health card in his pocket. He’s less brave than the 20 year old bagger at your supermarket, who is winging it on health care.
russell
Vanderboegh is having his moment in the spotlight, and he wants all 15 minutes.
cleek
he’s trying to save Pelosi them same way Nelson tries to save Bart by telling Bart to stop punching himself.
Violet
Bruce Bartlett comments on Frum’s firing:
Their purity tests are starting to be made public. Interesting. How incredibly depressing, though, that they aren’t even allowed to publicly agree with things they actually agree with because it doesn’t conform with the party line.
They sound like Soviet era communists.
(Found via Sully.)
Fern
@Mark S.: I’m kind of hoping that one isn’t next on the agenda, given the climate.
celticdragonchick
Off thread note…but important:
David Frum has been purged from the AEI today. Apparently, his rather sensible columns, especially asking why the GOP refused to negotiate on health care, were verbotten points of view in today’s conservatism.
Welcome to the ex-GOP pool, David. The water is fine.
His resignation note:
Dear Arthur,
This will memorialize our conversation at lunch today. Effective immediately, my position as a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute is terminated. I appreciate the consideration that delays my emptying of my office until after my return from travel next week. Premises will be vacated no later than April 9.
I have had many fruitful years at the American Enterprise Institute, and I do regret this abrupt and unexpected conclusion of our relationship.
Very truly yours,
David Frum
Alan
OT: This post from Bruce Bartlett about David Frum’s firing from the AEI is worth the read.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Listen up. This guy isn’t crazy. He speaks for thousands and probly millions. He is not kidding. These people believe their country is being stolen, they really do, and we will see the crazy notched up a 100 times when Immigration Reform rolls around. America is busting at the seams to evolve into a truly multiculture nation that was decided when the founders penned the liberal constitution declaring all peoples equal. And while we fought a bloody civil war against that direction coming full circle into a more perfect union, the forces against it see themselves backed into a corner and unable to stop it by political participation.
And they cannot stop it, because it is the nature of democracy of one person one vote, and now the white electoral supremacy is fading away into numbers that threaten the ultimate control of white majority rule. And it cannot be stopped by normal politics, so they are talking themselves into stopping it with politics by other means. Or just dropping out and refusing the responsibilities that come with citizenry.
Three fourths of the country can swallow this reality and some of us welcome it. But about a fourth cannot. Mr. Vanderboegh is speaking for that group.
Svensker
@Rick Taylor:
This. A thousand times this.
cleek
hmmm. i think something happened with David Frum
Mark S.
OT, but the Vatican is fighting back (h/t)
See, if there was no automatic punishment, you can hardly condemn the Church for not doing anything. That’s a perfectly logical explanation and I expect all of the outrage to die down shortly.
dmsilev
@celticdragonchick: So, the purges are underway. When do we get the show trials and the denunciations of former -comrades- coworkers?
-dms
MattR
@cleek: And I think Bruce Bartlett might have some thoughts on the matter.
dadanarchist
Someone in a (warning warning warning) Politico comment referred to Teabaggers threatening violence as “Teahadists.”
I think it has a certain ring to it.
hypusine
Nice government you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it.
Republicans couldn’t win on the merits (or after a decade of fucking up. Also.) so now they incite and threaten violence unless given some power. Blindingly obvious, and it really is that simple. That we’re not hearing that widely acknowledged is kind of amazing to me.
Citizen_X
More on the crazy scary side: read the “Lock’n load” chain email in this GOS diary. It includes these gems:
AnotherBruce
The thing I don’t get about this is why DougJ and John seem so concerned about what Reason thinks about this. It’s not surprising to me that Libertarians are as whacked as any right winger. It’s what happens when you live completely in your own head instead of the world. So it’s not a newsflash that Libertarians are every bit as childish, selfish and downright mean as any Republican.
Short Bus Bully
Watching these motherfuckers cry warms the cockles of my baby Jesus hating, redistributive Liberal heart (or it would if we Liberals had hearts). I hope these patsy patriots continue to ramp up their playground vandalism so the paramilitary police forces of this country that they LOVE to outfit with bestest and shiniest weapons come and beat down the doors of their mobile homes.
They want to go out as martyrs for their cause (American Taliban style)? I am a HUGE supporter of them following that to its logical and obvious conclusion.
Natural Selection FTW.
celticdragonchick
@dmsilev:
I think that the Club for Growth could be a passable stand in for the NKVD, heh!
morzer
@MNPundit:
One of the reasons we are not the right-wing is that we don’t eagerly anticipate making fellow-citizens pay. Instead, we do our best to stop it coming to violence and retribution. At least, that’s part of my understanding of what being a liberal means.
freelancer
@Sentient Puddle:
Mind Meld.
Violet
@dadanarchist:
We were coming up with names yesterday:
Al Teada
Tealibaggers
Teaquada
Teahadist made an appearance I think.
I’m doing this from memory. Anyone else want to join in or remember any more?
Sly
“In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Union; and then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us! That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, ‘Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!'”
You have to go pretty far back to find Republicans who weren’t wankers.
New Yorker
@Violet:
Speaking of which, doesn’t this…
“I’m trying to save the lives of Nancy Pelosi, and every one of these people who do not understand the unintended consequences of their actions.”
…just sound like he’s saying that Nancy Pelosi is suffering from false consciousness and that he really just wants to help her by sending her to a re-education camp?
Violet
Any Californians here? This headline at the Atlantic caught my eye. California: A Blue State Turning Red?
Thoughts?
AnotherBruce
They sound like Soviet era communists.
This. They are every bit as ideologically “pure” (rigid) as any of the old hard line Soviet communists were.
Remember, we used to call these types of Soviet party members “conservatives”.
Violet
@New Yorker:
He’s just saving her from herself. Such a thoughtful guy.
bkny
I think that the Club for Growth
and did you see that larry kudlow … larry kudlow! … called them out that for their very unhelpful recent performance.
gwangung
Dude, they only THINK they’re like the Panthers.
They got about 1/2 the swagger, none of the street smarts and less than nothing of the social service work the Panthers did.
And Another Thing...
Poor, poor little David “Axis of Evil” Frum.
Sentient Puddle
@Violet: It’s weak sauce. A few critiques:
1) The thesis is something like “OMG a Republican could win the governor and senate race!” Two marquee races sure, but hardly enough to say the state is turning red.
2) The article conveniently forgets that a Republican already holds the governor seat. Halfway to red state already!
3) The case that Republicans can take the senate seat is weak: one poll. Nate Silver laughs at such shoddy analysis.
4) Wake me when a Republican presidential candidate doesn’t lose by a bloody wide margin. This one’s the primary reason why everyone thinks California is such a blue state.
ETA: OK, so I’m not Californian. But really, if I could find four gaping holes in it, then a local more in tune with the local scene should be able to come up with a list longer than “An Open Letter to Conservatives” of what’s wrong with that article.
Fax Paladin
@Josh Huaco: I feel your pain. I also remember the live video of Bush arriving at TSTC Airport in what CNN insisted was Crawford. Though in that case, come to think of it, we might have come off lucky…
Mark S.
Bartlett’s conclusion is almost touching:
It must hurt, but it’s also pretty naive to think that these corporations and right wing lunatic millionaires are paying you six figure salaries to write whatever the pursuit of truth leads you to think. A rational person, I would think, would realize that they are paying you to spout propaganda about how raising taxes on the top 1% will destroy the country. I’m sorry it took these guys so long to figure that out.
freelancer
Here’s his radio interview quote via Maddow:
dadanarchist
@Violet:
It’s nonsense – every six years Republicans act like Barbara Boxer is vulnerable and every six years she is reelected.
The gubernatorial election is a different matter entirely as Californians, like Bay Staters, sometimes elect Republicans to counterbalance the utter Democratic dominance of the State House.
And, honestly, these polls are meaningless because the two pairs of candidates have yet to actually square off. I chalk it up to anger at incumbents.
mclaren
Time for the Republicans to re-brand themselves as THE PARTY OF TIMOTHY McVEIGH.
For their 2010 congressional elections, they can put up TV spots with photos of the Murrah Federal Building in ruins and unfurl a banner reading MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
mcc
@Mark S.: You know, the internet has really opened up a lot of possibilities for small-dollar fundraising. Maybe Frum and Bartlett could take a cue from post-Dean organizing on the left and band together to found a donation-funded think tank, which could spout propaganda about how raising taxes on the top 1% will destroy the country — but in a way that looks out for the common man.
gnomedad
Nice little Speaker of the House youse got here. Be a shame if anything happened to her.
Bill E Pilgrim
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Yep, just another minority, a status they’re going to have to accept, sooner or later.
Maybe John Boehner can start a group called the NAAOCP.
kc
Isn’t the guy who’s collecting Social Security disability benefits?
Violet
@Sentient Puddle: @dadanarchist:
Thank you both for your comments. I figured it was a kind of lame analysis, but thought someone here could offer more insight.
I’ve got relatives in California who are definitely in wingnut territory (one of them knows Cheney personally – yikes), so I know those kinds are out there. Headline just kind of caught my eye.
Calouste
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
There are some comparisons to be made with South Africa in the early 1990s, where there was a real fear of a civil war being started by white supremacist groups like the Afrikaner Weerstands Beweging in combination with elements of the army and the special forces. However the only thing that happened was the aborted coup in Boputhatswana in 1994, which didn’t end with a heroic last stand or anything like it, but with 3 AWB members shot like rabid dogs in full view of the cameras by a black policeman. And when war shows its real ugly face instead of the supposed heroism, it suddenly becomes rather unappealing to even the hardiest weekend warriors.
Crusty Dem
@Alan:
I feel sorry for the poor AEI intern who has to go through all the group picture and photoshop out Frum. Ah well, the AEI has always been at war with Oceania.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
@Violet:
It’s really interesting how they quote almost exclusively Republicans or Republican-leaners. I mean, sure, you could have a Massachusetts like fluke in a low turnout election, but I don’t think you’re going to be able to get around the fact that LA/Bay area are major population centers and heavily liberal.
David in NY
@Mark S.:
Nice point.
And Another Thing...
@Bill E Pilgrim: win.
stuckinred
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason: When I see these dudes stand up like the Days of Rage and the Panthers in the California Statehouse I’ll believe that. Till then they are weasel shit loudmouth cowards.
Llelldorin
You have to find it hilarious that these think tanks–supposedly founded to combat the lack of academic freedom in mainline academia (people saying mean things in faculty meetings and at conferences, as far as I can tell)–instantly fire anyone who deviates by an iota from the party line.
Sly
Weiner’s office got the white powder treatment earlier today.
The RNC could do with the Brando treatment right about now.
Alan
@Crusty Dem: I wouldn’t feel sorry for the intern. He or she will probably tackle the job with enthusiasm–will probably have it done by tomorrow’s Two Minute Hate.
Calouste
@freelancer:
IOW, he’s getting $1300/month for being morbidly obese?
scav
@Violet: I think the other thing is that CA’s got about everything, both in terms of physical and political climate. SF / Bezerkley and Bakersfield / The Orange Curtain.
tc125231
@Zifnab: I think you meant to say “us damn hippies,” no?
Montysano
Wait….. wut?? There’s going to be a Tea Party rallying coinciding with the dates of Waco and Oklahoma City? SRSLY?? Peak Wingnut approaches?
It’s sucking hard lately to have to work my ass off instead of goofing off on the intertoobz. I’m falling behind…..
Redshift
@Mark S.: It’s especially ludicrous because if they actually wanted to “pursue the truth,” they could almost find a political science department somewhere that would have them (especially considering the number of incompetent former Bush officials who have gotten high-profile academic jobs.)
Of course, they’d have to let go of the delusion that academia is biased against conservatives, and face the hard truth that academia is biased against people who start with the “correct” conclusion and work backwards to the evidence and arguments, instead of the other way around. (As Frum could no doubt attest, you can keep a job in wingnut welfare as long as you come to the preferred conservative conclusion, no matter how thin or ridiculous your reasoning is, which doesn’t exactly build your reasoning skills.)
I honestly think that a good chunk of the disastrous “we know we’re right” policy of the Bush Administration was a result of being staffed with people who had spent their whole careers in that sheltered hothouse environment.
scav
Entirely Entirely OT: The POTUS went to Prairie Lights!. ‘scuse me. go hawks.
Dreggas
@Violet:
As a californian I seriously doubt that. People that I talk with are fed up with Arnold and republicans in general. I don’t see CA going red any time soon.
MikeTheZ
@Montysano: My favorite part is they’re having to meet in Va because they’re little stunt wouldn’t go over well in D.C.
That said, way to go Va! And three cheers for McDonnell striking down the 1 handgun/month law. Not like we didn’t have the worst school shooting in history or anything here, nope.
FlipYrWhig
Hey, remember how there was a left-wing guy no one had really heard of, who was opposed to the Iraq war and said he’d like to see “a million Mogadishus”? People got pretty upset and said it thoroughly discredited the entire political left. National Review exploded. David Horowitz fulminated. Here’s one reaction to it:
Source:
Salon, March 29, 2003
Author:
Andrew Sullivan
Gentlemen, start your condemnations.
Chuck
“Let a thousand Wacos bloom”, eh?
Right. Because if there’s any group that elicits a groundswell of public sympathy, it’s nutcases in compounds. That’s why Reno lost her job and the ATF was disbanded.
ellaesther
I was in the car today listening to Fresh Air on NPR and Terri Gross was talking to Mark Potok from the Southern Poverty Law Center, who recently produced a report called Rage on the Right.
I speak as someone who has been frightened for this President from the moment he declared, and even so, even with all my pre-approved fear, it was chilling, man. I wanted to call the White House and say “Why are you letting him wander about the country?! Put him in the bunker! He can TOTALLY lead by video conference!”
Furthermore, as much as I thought I knew about the dangerous folks out there in this great nation, it turns out I really didn’t know very much.
Chilling. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124906766
FlipYrWhig
@Calouste:
And probably all het up about freeloaders and layabouts mooching off his tax dollars, too.
Bill E Pilgrim
Wow I just saw this about Frum being fired.
Yes he committed the cardinal sin in a right-wing think tank, which is to actually think.
ellaesther
Also, the idea of a Second Amendment rally in Washington, to which organizers are now apparently encouraging people to come armed? (As if they wouldn’t anyway, but still)
Has me a little terrified.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Calouste:
I sure hope you are right. And I do doubt there will be something like a formal civil war, but more like pockets of malcontented fools, maybe doing some terrorist things and hording weapons and such. But it is worrisome tha some of our southern state leaders talking like rebels again to the union.
Time will tell how it all shakes out.
ellaesther
@Montysano: It also coincides with the first shots fired at Lexington, which is the reason they’re giving for the timing, but dude. No one needs to break the code.
Redshift
@MikeTheZ: Sadly, they’re meeting in Northern Virginia, where we’re not big fans of McDonnell and his ilk. However, to tie the day’s threads together, it does look like they’ll be far enough from my house that any shots they fire in the air won’t get this far…
Josh Huaco
@scav:
Iowa City FTW. A gem of a college town. But the water tastes like Spic ‘n’ Span.
scav
@Josh Huaco: oh yeah, has your hair recovered yet?
EDIT: for everyone else. to compensate for the pesticide surge in spring, they add a chlorine surge. VOCs are us.
John Cole
Yeah, but he’s not a bigot!
Comrade Dread
1. Arnold has been a poor governor and the Republicans in the legislature are, by far, some of the worst Republicans you could imagine. I think the Democrats in the legislature suck donkey balls and are largely paid for hacks, and yet somehow most of these Republicans still look worse.
(That being said, I don’t think everything is entirely Arnold’s fault. I’m pretty sure someone with the wisdom of Solomon wouldn’t be able to govern our state right now.)
2. Republicans lost Hispanic voters with nativism, and surprisingly, we have a lot of Hispanics in this state. They’re becoming the majority, in fact. So you know, personally, I would have appealed to shared social values and told the rednecks in the party to go Cheney themselves, but Republicans opted to embrace that faction.
3. We’re home of Los Angeles and San Francisco, man. That would permanently bar us from any Tea Party gatherings.
4. We’re looking increasingly like we’re going to sign off on legal pot and teh gay marriage.
So, yes, I think California is going to be liberal for a least another generation or two, even if the Republicans got their heads out of their behinds and started trying to reach out and build up a stronger party with a multi-ethnic base.
KDP
@bkny: Right, and so for him there would be no fines, no cost other than that his wife pays to cover him.
I feel soiled from having clicked through to his site. Here’s a lovely gem of his justification:
I’d like to know how he calculated that he’d never get back what he paid in though, since I roughed out last night that contributions for 20 years at 6.2% of 50000/yr income meant he would have paid in ~$62000. That covers 47.9 months of SSDI payouts at $1300/month. Now, admittedly, I’m not including accrued treasury bond interest of ~3%, but it wouldn’t increase his contribution by much.
Whatever
MikeTheZ
@Redshift: Am I the only one who thinks we should let Texas secede and bugger off by themselves, and then split NoVa off from the rest of the state so we don’t have to change the flag?
Allan
A thousand little Wacos? Really?
Then I guess when I tell you to go die in a fire, I’m simply wishing you success in your endeavors.
Miss Grammar
@Joshua Norton: That’s “wackos”. To whack means to hit. Wacky means crazy.
Next people will think the correct spelling of “moron” is “moran”.
gnomedad
@ellaesther:
“A person usually has two reasons for doing something: a good reason and the real reason.” – Thomas Carlyle
Pangloss
@Alan: Great post, and even better comments. It’s starting to dawn on people that aren’t interested in politics that there’s a whole lot of crazy coming from even the mainstream members of the GOP. Chuck Grassley, Death Panels? Really? Not even one single vote for Health Care? Really? Eric Cantor, victim of armed hippies with terrible aim? Really?
Martin
Am I the only one that wants to hide a box on the 2nd Amendment rally site with a remote activated starters pistol inside and see what transpires?
Omnes Omnibus
@ellaesther:
I really wish those a**holes would pick a different day. I have family who fought at Concord and I don’t want their memory associated with these twits. I think, with no evidence but family history to support me, that the people at Lexington and Concord would despise the right-wing sh*t merchants who are trying to glom onto their legacy. The whole tea party thing gets me too. Can’t these idiots read a history book?
The Populist
@gex:
I think that too but duty will trump those who revolt to the other side. Many borderline states that had no issue with slavery fought for the union.
Miss Grammar
@gex: Do tell, gex. What intelligence do you have on this? A secret poll? Are we poised on the brink of the 4th Reich?
bkny
@FlipYrWhig:
ever seen that ubiquitous scooter chair ad on cable. i bet he’s got one of those … and all courtesy of uncle sam. that’s one of the guarantees of the ad — medicare will pay for it.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@John Cole: And just tying to protect Nancy Pelosi. What a sweetheart.
Josh Huaco
@scav:
Yikes, there’s a story behind that quote. Sorry I forgot to link. I don’t want people to get the wrong idea.
stuckinred
Be vigilant but don’t get yourselves all worked up in to a frenzy here.
Omnes Omnibus
@Allan:
FTW
robertdsc
OT, but funny:
POTUS at the bookstore
The photo is priceless.
The Populist
Remember this too…those who might (for now) sympathize with these people may change their opinion once they start committing terrorist acts.
Many people in this country might be annoyed by this HCR bill but not enough to see their cities burn and fighting in the streets. Most are pragmatic enough to see there is nothing to gain from that. Many may distance their stance a bit when they see dead women and children who basically did nothing but be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Once these people act out, they know they can never go back to the way it was so they will be fighting for a place to call theirs. We may even have to consider carving out a place for them if it ensures peace.
Maude
@Violet:
He really shouldn’t be out there giving these interviews. He could be reviewed because he might be able to do substantial work if he can do all this media stuff.
SSDI goes by US labor laws. A claimant has to prove inabillity to earn a certain amount of money.
Part of the proof is medical evidence that must meet the federal standard.
It uses the federal appeals process.
It is initial claim,
reconsideration,
written appeal to an administrative law judge.
Hearing before judge.
If you lose at the hearing, it can be 2 -4 years to have the case considered by the federal appeals count.
It can go all the way up to the Supremes.
It is the same appeals process for medicare part D.
The first turn down for part D is the private ins. co.
Omnes Omnibus
@robertdsc: Looks like he was in the fiction section.
NobodySpecial
Related
The Populist
@bkny:
But we owe it to him, don’t you see? He figures he should “get his” since so many others do it.
The typical wingnut excuse. I’d have a modicum of respect for the idiot if he didn’t take public funds.
bemused
@KDP:
R’s always find a justification to do exactly what they want.
Tattoosydney
OT but I am surprised that this hasn’t had much coverage (or it may just be that I missed it in all the discussion about healthcare and coffins on lawns):
Mike in NC
If only David Koresh had been able to dial down the crazy a few notches, today he’d be a prosperous and influential multi-term GOP congressman from Texas with an excellent shot at being elected governor.
Comrade Luke
Billmon weighs in.
Man I miss that guy.
Makewi
@bemused:
As opposed to D’s who will pass a bill that the majority of Americans are opposed to and pretend that they have the consent of the governed.
Jon O.
Why’s everybody picking on this Vanderboegh guy? He’s NOT a racist!
MikeTheZ
@robertdsc: I love the end of the article.
MikeJ
@Mike in NC:
If Koresh had lived a few more years he wouldn’t have had to dial down the crazy.
stuckinred
@Makewi: What fucking bullshit.
Pangloss
@The Populist:
Don’t hold your breath. I can’t think of a single Republican that got any heat over the Oklahoma City bombing or Eric Rudolph.
Omnes Omnibus
@Makewi: Obama and the Dems campaigned on HCR. Obama won the Presidency; Dems extended their majorities in the House and Senate. They passed a law that closely tracks their campaign promises. IOW, you are full of shit.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Makewi:
Come on Scarlett, now you’re just phoning in GOP talking points again. I have higher expectations from your recent trolling efforts. So could you just tighten up some? thanx!
bemused
@Makewi:
Go away.
Omnes Omnibus
@bemused: That answer was better than mine. Well said.
robertdsc
@Tattoosydney:
If true, I’m glad the Prez did it. The Israelis have gone far too long without any check on their behavior. They’re the real rogue state in the ME. Maybe now some serious work will be done to get the Palestininans a state.
bemused
@Omnes Omnibus:
Why thank you, thank you very much. Uh huh.
Mnemosyne
@Violet:
It’s BS. They predict every time that Boxer is going to have a tough battle and then she wins by 20 percentage points.
The one of the big reasons Schwarzenegger won a second time is that he’s been completely rejected by the California Republican Party. (That, and Phil Angelides has even less charisma than Gray Davis, a man who reflects his nickname perfectly.) Basically, he’s Jesse Ventura right now.
People are going to abstractly like the Republican candidate until s/he starts saying the things required by the state Republican party, like how they’re going to work to get abortion banned in California. Then there will be a very quick turnaround and Boxer will be re-elected by at least 10 percentage points, and probably more.
The Populist
@Makewi:
I will repeat this to you one last time: THE MAJORITY ARE NOT AGAINST HCR.
Take your repetitive talking points to a rightie board and stop already.
Makewi
@stuckinred:
That’s what I’m saying.
The Populist
@Mnemosyne:
She may have trouble with Campbell but Fiorina and DeVore can’t beat her at all.
Campbell is your trademark old school California Con. Conservative on fiscal, liberal on many other things (think Pete Wilson). I won’t vote for him but I can see how he would appeal to people on the fence and independents.
She should be worried about him BUT he won’t beat Fiorina’s deep pockets. She, on the other hand, is a failure of epic proportions.
Martin
@Makewi: If the public didn’t want HCR, why did they elect Obama and so many Dems that campaigned on delivering exactly what they delivered? If GOP solutions is what the public wanted, why aren’t they in the White House and in the majority?
You don’t need to answer – it’d just be bullshit anyway.
The Populist
@Makewi:
They DO have the fucking consent maroon…if they did NOT the GOP would never have lost the majority.
God, you people crack me up with the Limpballs talking points and delusional, 1 dimensional arguments.
demo woman
@Comrade Luke: Me too. Thank you so much for the link and he’s right. I do wish that he would come here and do a weekly post.
Calouste
@Tattoosydney:
Because Michelle Obama and the kids are actually spending the week in NYC, not in DC, so the story has some credibility issues.
stuckinred
@Makewi: You aren’t saying shit.
KDP
@Omnes Omnibus: Mine too.
@bemused: Too true, and accuse Dems of doing the same. As you so clearly pointed out. Presidential campaign on HCR, Senate/House majorities coming out of that campaign, many opportunities including the bipartisan committees that put together the bills for R cooperation, and a vote held with much fanfare during primetime.
I live in a community in which a few residents act as teahadists within our community towards other residents. One of them assaulted another resident last June and DA brought a case against her. She is being evicted and must leave our community on the 31st. Today, she stopped her care as I was walking my dog, called me a b..ch and told me to watch my back. I looked at her dumbfounded and told her I’d be filing a police report, and she already has an assault case so …
I know from my experience with this little group that people with a victim mindset and a belief in their ‘right’ to whatever cannot be reasoned with and are not rational. They don’t listen, they project their own behavior on to their ‘enemies,’ and over time become dangerous.
Makewi
@Omnes Omnibus:
That argument is almost like logic, except for the parts where you pretend and make stuff up.
@The Populist:
Sure they are and the Democrats are going to pay for passing it big time at the polls, AND the GOP will then repeal it. Should be great fun.
MikeTheZ
Just asking: Am I the only one who still gets a warm fuzzy feeling any time the random tagline pops up with “Yes We Did”?
The Populist
@Martin:
Ding Ding Ding.
This meme about the governed is bull too. If America wanted the status quo, the right would not have lost their majorities.
Simply put (since Cons can’t think any other way apparently) they like to argue the left had zero right to do this YET this bill passed with a majority of votes, the people in charge were ELECTED by popular vote and the fucking President won with over 50% of the popular vote.
Simple…they want to act like the Dems are not legit yet they WON THE ELECTIONS THAT PUT THEM IN THERE. PEOPLE KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO TACKLE THESE ISSUES. THE GOP HAD A CHANCE TO WORK WITH THE DEMS BUT DECIDED TO BE CHILDREN AND GO HOME.
In the end, this legitimacy argument is dangerous all by itself. The right aren’t very legit now that Roberts gave them the Citizens United decision. Now they can buy their way back in, average American citizen be damned.
The Populist
@Makewi:
Sure, they won’t. The dems will still have control of the house and senate come November.
I can respect a man with a dream though!
ellaesther
@gnomedad: Indeed.
Makewi
@The Populist:
Wait, so you are saying that consent is given as a blanket for every act to come based on the outcome of a given election? The people lose their right to have an opinion once they have cast a vote? By that logic the GOP had consent for all our foreign adventures all the way up until 2006. Right?
stuckinred
@Makewi: you really are a fucking idiot aren’t you?
ellaesther
@Omnes Omnibus: Given their spelling skills, I would say no, reading is not their strong suit….
MikeTheZ
…warm fuzzy feeling gone. Put on the House reconciliation debate, and hear a ReThug say the solution is to repeal and to go with…wait for it…tort reform!
Litlebritdifrnt
@robertdsc:
I love these bits from the story:
“Obama also bought a book for Gibbs, who was holding a large Star Wars pop-up book for his six-year-old son, Ethan.
“It’s a little expensive, sir,” Gibbs said to his boss as he handed it over.
POTUS showed the book to pool as the cashier rang it up for $37.44.
“I can handle it,” Obama said as Gibbs suggested he pay. “It’s for keeping his dad away for too many hours a day.”
“I need more books than that, sir,” Gibbs remarked.”
THIS. The President gets it, not only does his press secretary worry about the price of a book, but the POTUS realizes the human cost of working for his administration. I cannot tell you how much this has impressed me, and yes I am an Obot, but damn.
The Populist
@Tattoosydney:
It’s about time. Israel has to accept that to have peace, you have to give something up. They did it with Egypt.
I am tired of having muslim whack jobs blame US for the deeds of Israel. Israel does not even respect the USA anyway seeing how they’ve been caught spying on us numerous times in the last 40 years AND other issues.
Oh and this statement is not anti-semitic. It’s a policy disagreement.
Makewi
@Martin:
Obama campaigned that he was going to have the IRS force individual citizens to buy health insurance from private companies? I must have missed that part. Should I google under the hope or the change?
EIGRP
I didn’t realize Waco was a synonym for penis
That clears up lots of issues the teabaggers and their “little Wacos” have.
-Eric
some other guy
Re: Frum’s dismissal from AEI
I suspect there must be more to this story. From what I’ve seen, Norm Ornstein is far more intellectually honest than Frum ever was and he’s allowed to stay. Then again, Frum has a much higher profile so his apostasy probably has a bigger impact.
The Populist
@Makewi:
No, he ran on HCR genius and won. Had the lame right come to the table with some REAL solutions (maybe a public option doesn’t look so bad, eh?) then maybe this would be better. The right refuses to compromise on anything.
St. Ronald Raygun worked with dems all the time. Why is it these righties can’t do the same?
bemused
@stuckinred:
Pretzel logic most often ends up in a cluster fuck. I would just avoid the aggravation.
PeakVT
I often find this chart handy when dealing with conservative trolls. In this case, the chart shows that the Democrats currently hold more House seats than the Republicans have held at any time since 1945, and that the Democrats currently hold more Senate seats than the Republicans have held at any time since 1945.
The Populist
@MikeTheZ:
If they had negotiated in GOOD FAITH, maybe they could have had some tort reform. They decided to do NOTHING but be obstructionists. In the real world (since they love to use that phrase) if I did that with my business, I’d be done.
Makewi
@stuckinred:
Is your screen name supposed to point to the fact that you are stuck in a red state? If so, why are you stuck?
The Populist
@PeakVT:
Yep, further proving that Makewi has nothing but handy, dandy Michael Steele/Bush Limpballs talking points to spread as if they were factual.
stuckinred
@bemused:Over a long time ago, oh yea. . .
Allan
@Makewi: You may have the first terminal case of butthurt.
If we’re lucky.
Makewi
@The Populist:
I do believe it is possible that you and I would disagree over what constitutes a “real” solution. In any case, I applaud your short term victory and look forward to your scapegoating excuses when it is repealed or fails to deliver the sort of social justice you are looking for.
I’m curious what negotiating in “good faith” would look like to you. Care to lay out some examples.
Tiparillo
Who is this Makewi and why is she makign things up?
Allan
@Makewi: Why don’t you stick to the topic and tell us all about your own personal Waco plans?
Mnemosyne
@Tattoosydney:
I guess Bibi thought he could insult the US as much as he wanted and Obama wouldn’t say “boo.” That’s what you get for listening to the Republicans who tell you what an empty suit Obama is.
And Another Thing...
@Makewi: “…repeal it…”
HA HA HA HA HA
That’s an R strategy to whip up the wingnut suckers and take their money. What a bunch of effing snake oil salesman preying on a bunch of uninformed nutcases.
So, which are you…the snake or the sucker?
Makewi
@Allan:
Are you wishing my death. That’s so sweet. Later you can go up to your room and tear up all your posters while screaming.
That’ll show me.
The Populist
@Allan:
Yep, agreed. He seems to have a problem understanding how elections work in this country. I remember when the right took the congress AND the WH they did whatever they wanted to, ‘public opinion’ be damned. Now the right seem to care about polls again.
Polls are subjective. I can easily counter Makewi with tons of data showing people are giving this new law a chance.
Oh well…it must be nice to be blissfully ignorant and pretend that talking points are facts.
stuckinred
I guess it shouldn’t be fed.
demo woman
@stuckinred: I think that Makewi is Doug’s alter ego. He seems to bore easily and has to pick up a new moniker.
Omnes Omnibus
@Makewi: Yes, dear. That’s nice.
Kirk Spencer
Well, Makewi, your thesis will be quite easy to test. If the majority doesn’t like it, undoubtedly next year we’ll see the House and Senate repeal the bill — though they may have to wait till 2013 for a Republican president to quit vetoing the repeal.
Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to happen. In fact, I think that in 2011 the Democrats will still hold majorities in both the Senate and the House. Which would in turn put a bit of a crimp in the idea that the majority of Americans were so unhappy about this, wouldn’t it?
But we’ll have to wait and see.
The Populist
@Makewi:
Making stuff up again, I see. How sweet.
Makewi
@Allan:
This Waco thing is your fantasy, helped along by the likes of Alan Colmes, so that you can continue to feel like you are the supermen fighting the nazi’s. This story repeats so often I’m a little surprised you haven’t caught on to it yet.
My Truth Hurts
@violet
A proposition to legalize, tax and regulate marijuana for all adults 21 and over has just been approved for the November 2010 ballot. If there is one issue that will bring out jaded liberals like me who gave up voting years ago, it’s that. I promise I won’t be checking the names of any GOP candidates on my ballot either.
The Populist
@Kirk Spencer:
Not only that but this bill has the option to be improved and tweaked, for the good, over time.
stuckinred
@demo woman: I haven’t been here long enough to know who Doug is, I’m a recent refugee from the land of the Firebagger. Over there they liked to say
s
c
r
o
l
l
when they got one!
AhabTRuler
@Makewi: C’mon, even Jake Fucking Tapper was more entertaining than you are.
NobodySpecial
@Tattoosydney:
Except, of course, that the president of Equatorial Guinea isn’t a habitual liar.
The Populist
@Makewi:
Nah, Waco is something you folks can’t let go of. None of us care that much about it because the lawbreaker was given his option to surrender and do the right thing, but he burned the property to the ground.
Sorry, it’s the right that seems to care more about a lawbreaker than anybody I know on the left.
Makewi
@Kirk Spencer:
Yes, we will have to wait and see. In the meantime we have 13 states so far that are planning on suing the federal government over the constitutionality of forcing a private citizen from purchasing a product from a private company under penalty of law. I do believe the USSC will have something to say about that.
In any case, you should enjoy your victory now, you’ve earned it and it may well be fleeting.
MikeTheZ
Can someone please explain to me how the ReThugs have cornered the market on “common sense”?
mcc
Interesting. Malewi was pretending last week that the problem wasn’t the health care bill itself but rather just the abortion provisions, right? Or did I just imagine that?
The Populist
@Makewi:
I don’t make excuses nor do I scapegoat. I leave that to you folks to do. You don’t know what honor is so I won’t explain it to you.
You aren’t gonna push my buttons. This thing will stay on the books and help many people. Too bad you are too selfish and full of yourself to understand that helping fellow Americans is noble AND it’s something Jesus would be proud of.
Omnes Omnibus
@NobodySpecial:
You mean the treat afforded the head of government of a foreign nation? To what other treatment would Bibi be entitled?
The Populist
@mcc:
Yep, he was doing that. He got beaten down with facts (many of us came at him with the Hyde Amendment points) and he evaporated into silence like all right wingers who can’t win an argument based on facts.
The Populist
@Makewi:
And they have no case. Nice waste of taxpayer dollars.
If the Supremes get involved then we know the activism will rear it’s head once again. I bet on Kennedy doing the right thing since this bill is a regulation/taxation bill. Perfectly LEGAL for Congress to enact. Look it up.
NobodySpecial
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think Obama doesn’t have the wetsuits needed for the treatment he’s USED to from Republican administrations.
Paul in NC
Read the WP article on this guy. He’s “disabled” and receives a “disability check.” This means the guy is on SSDI, social security disability. He’s on the dole, living off the government tit. He says he has healthcare through his wife’s employer, but it’s likely he’s lying. When you qualify for SSDI, you’re automatically qualified for Medicare. So unless his wife gets healthcare benefits for spouses for free, there’s a high probability he’s really on Medicare.
Also, he urges others to throw bricks, but he ain’t throwing any bricks. Guy’s a pussy, a coward, a liar, and a hypocrite. (But you already knew that).
Omnes Omnibus
@NobodySpecial: Ew.
Admiral_Komack
@bemused
“He’s just a concerned citizen trying to save the lives of Pelosi & others who know not what they do. I suppose he expects a medal.”
-He deserves
a foot up his assto be beat down for being the ignorant fuck that he is.Montysano
@Comrade Luke:
You and I both.
He wrote a piece after Katrina that is one of the most eloquent, heartbreaking things I’ve ever read. The Billmon archive seems to be available only as a download, dammit, so no linky….
MikeTheZ
And lo and behold, we have a republican saying “lets not vote tonight.”
Calouste
@NobodySpecial:
This man ?
Comrade Luke
Isn’t everyone hammering makewi, let alone acknowledging him at all, the same as the media covering Cantor’s comments by saying “See, they both do it”?
Ignoring him would make him go away faster than engaging in a “debate”, as if that’s even possible with him.
Mark S.
@Makewi:
In 2014, when someone will actually have standing to sue on that.
Tattoosydney
@Calouste:
Hmmm, well that makes it even more odd.
seyahatname
@ellaesther:
The NPR article also mentions a Harris poll on public opinion towards Obama. http://news.harrisinteractive.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=1963&ResLibraryID=37050&Category=1777
BTW, who are these 6% of self-identified democrats who believes Obama is the Anti-Christ? The PUMA fringe?
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Luke: I haven’t had a particularly great day. My wife is out of town over night and I need to be in the office for another half an hour. That’s my excuse.
NobodySpecial
@Calouste:
I stand corrected. And yeah, that sounds like correct treatment for Bibi then.
JGabriel
Makewi:
I agree. The words “So what?” come to mind. So do “Lack of Standing” and “Petition Denied”.
.
Omnes Omnibus
@Calouste: His coup was on my 15th birthday.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@FlipYrWhig:
Fix’t.
He’s the New Age Social Security Patriot. Keep yer grubby mits offa muh gubmint munny or ahhl blow yer ass away!
I like how the nuts on the right are using the ‘justification for domestic violence’ argument to imply that the Democrats were bringing this down on themselves and that if they would just stop it then everything would be just fine. But officer, if my wife had just shut up and did the dishes none of this would have happened!
No, what they are doing is called terrorism. They are trying to terrorize people into doing what they want, just like the crazy mooslims they claim to despise. They are too small to win at the ballot box so they are pulling out the ammo box. These people claim to be patriots but they are no better than the crazy jihadists they despise. I’m beginning to think that the reason the right despises the jihadist mooslims so much is because they are like the mob; they don’t want anyone encroaching on their ‘turf’ and they are ready to ‘go to the mattresses’ to defend it. It’s literally a mob-type of war between the the crazy christians and crazy muslims that we’re caught in the middle of it.
White majority status is coming to an end. I embrace our coming multicultural overlords. :)
MikeTheZ
ReThugs talking points on the floor: Government takeover, special provisions, lost jobs, doctors will quit, repeal repeal repeal NONONONONONONO!
I thought the republicans were against mind altering drugs…
WereBear
@Mark S.:
Apparently church laws do not require that he stop it, either.
The Populist
@Comrade Luke:
I’m done. I just can’t let idiotic nonsense, talking points and trying to sell b.s. as facts go.
Said what I needed. Makewi will now slither back to his little club and gloat how “he told them liber-uls off!”
celticdragonchick
@Makewi:
I recall that President Bush said something to that effect, yes.
* Remarks during interview aboard Air Force One,
The President had been asked if his administration needed to be accountable to public opinion, especially with respect to events in Iraq as I recall. President Bush famously didn’t give a rats ass about public opinion, and said so rather often.
Triassic Sands
Yeah, I’ve always found that the best response to a deadly threat is to break windows. So far it’s a strategy that has kept me alive even during shark attacks.
Doesn’t he mean a thousand little wackos?
Dilemma of the century. When they “refuse arrest” and the cops tase them, what will Digby say? Then again, maybe the cops (Glenn Beck viewers probably) will all join the protests. Needless to say no cop wants the government to have anything to do his (or her) job.
MikeTheZ
And now republicans are whining about how there is no public option. No joke.
“Don’t tell me republicans didn’t try!”
Um, Mr. Burgess, I have one word for you: filibuster.
The Populist
@seyahatname:
And older Reagan Dems like a friend of mine who listens to Beck and Limpballs.
Mnemosyne
I guess elections only have consequences when Republicans win.
The Populist
@MikeTheZ:
Classic! If they had come to the table and fought for the ability of those who can’t be insured to buy a public plan the right might be a tad happier in the end. I made that point to the GOP concern troll above.
Maybe this opens the door to adding language, later, for a public option!
Cool!!! Oh yes, best not get too excited by GOP idiots who talk more than they actually do anything.
Mark S.
@WereBear:
He was too sick and old to do any more molesting, so they figured let bygones be bygones.
Mnemosyne
@seyahatname:
Don’t forget, the LaRouchies are all registered Democrats, as is Fred Phelps (of “God Hates Fags” fame), I believe.
ETA: Democratic registration does not guarantee sanity. Not by a long shot.
My Truth Hurts
@Makewi
As most gun toting rightwingnuts know, only a few years after the nation’s Founding Fathers ratified the Constitution, Congress approved the Militia Act of 1792, which was duly signed by George Washington, then the president and commander in chief.
Establishing state militias and a national standard for their operation, the Militia Act explicitly required every “free able-bodied white male citizen” between the ages of 18 and 45, with a few occupational exceptions, to “provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder..”
Within six months, every citizen enrolled and notified of his required militia service had to equip himself as specified above. There was spirited debate in Congress as to whether the state ought to subsidize the purchase of arms for men too poor to afford their own, so that everyone could serve his country. Subsidized or not, however, the founders saw no constitutional barrier to a law ordering every citizen to buy a gun and ammo.
So, as you can see, congress has already dealt with the constitutionality of forcing a private citizen from purchasing a product from a private company under penalty of law. It is, in fact, constitutional to do so.
I guess this makes the Founding Fathers all Socialists.
Calouste
@MikeTheZ:
I’ve always liked the “doctors will quit” meme.
Where to? Canada? The NHS in the UK? It’s not like an MD gives you a boatload of skills that are easily transferable to another profession with a similar level of pay.
MikeTheZ
@The Populist: I’m kinda bummed out that the dems didn’t turn around and motion to amend Alan Grayson’s medicare for all plan to the bill. That would have been an amazing “put your money where your mouth is” moment.
I am amazed that ReThugs can say with a straight face “we reached out time and time again, and were rebuffed.” Poking someone with a tazer is not the same as reaching out.
The Populist
@celticdragonchick:
Great response. It gets tiresome having to answer questions from somebody who understood the point he was answering but is playing a game. He is fully aware of the fact that Bush and the GOP congress did not care one iota about the people.
They act like Obama doesn’t care but he’s been a hell of a lot more transparent and open than those tards were.
Svensker
@Omnes Omnibus:
When Israel gets the same amount of US taxpayer dollars as E.G. does, then give me a call. In the meantime, Petraeus has had to walk back his statement saying Israel’s intransigence puts U.S. soldiers in danger.
Allan
@Comrade Luke: How do we know for sure that Makewi isn’t Eric Cantor?
The Populist
@MikeTheZ: Agreed. I still have hope that once Grayson wins (and he will) reelection they keep pushing this for next term and beyond. Once people see the positives they may force their elected leader to make a public option available.
Kirk Spencer
When my post responding to makewi gets out of moderation, is there a chance of knowing WHY it went? I thought I avoided all the reject words.
MikeTheZ
@Calouste: Its a talking point that makes absolutely no sense. I’d also like to note the ReThug chair, David Dreier comes off as a blowhard gameshow host more than anything else.
The Populist
@Kirk Spencer:
Happens to me a lot and I avoid all the words. I think new ones go in from time to time? I also think if you quote too much stuff, it moderates.
MikeTheZ
@The Populist: Its just a shame that there’s almost no way that it’ll get through the senate, because people are too lazy to think.
The Populist
@Svensker:
…yet he’s so right. The wingnuts defend Israel solely because of their religious dogma. It’s nice to see that Israel has to accept that they won’t get their way and need to start making a harder effort to show they want peace.
The Populist
@MikeTheZ: Yep, but if people start to really push for it I have a feeling they may have no choice BUT to vote for it.
The Populist
@Calouste: They aren’t quitting anymore than a California business is closing it’s doors because they put in another regulation.
Most doctors went into this to help people. Ask any doctor (the ones I know at least) and they will tell you the nightmare for them is dealing with insurance companies. Now it may be a lot easier for them to get things done.
scav
@Mark S and @werebear: well, for those with the right handshakes, it is usually more a case of Forgive and let God sort them out.
MikeTheZ
@The Populist: True. I keep forgetting that the Dems have had a taste of victory and liked it. Who knows, maybe they’ll stay aggressive. I’m looking forward to seeing how they respond to Eric Cantor’s bullcrap. Its starting on Countdown right now, but that’s kind of like shouting into an echo chamber.
Calliope Jane
@Omnes Omnibus: I really wish those a**holes would pick a different day. I have family who fought at Concord and I don’t want their memory associated with these twits. I think, with no evidence but family history to support me, that the people at Lexington and Concord would despise the right-wing sh*t merchants who are trying to glom onto their legacy. The whole tea party thing gets me too. Can’t these idiots read a history book?
This. Exactly. I also want them to stop using the “Don’t tread on me flag.” They finally stopped using the “We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately flag” because they realized unity wasn’t exactly the thing they were seeking.
Brick Oven Bill
If there is one thing scarier than a generic female driving a forklift, it is a single childless middle-aged woman in charge of security services.
Sullenberger is a union man, and a hero to all. Perhaps Obama should put him in charge of Homeland Security.
mcc
I like how we are seeing both a “doctors will quit” meme and a “there will not be enough doctors to cover the expanded demand from the newly insured” meme at once.
“DEMAND PRESSURE” DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS
BruceFromOhio
@Rick Taylor:
Uh, not to me. It’s kind of THE fucking point.
MikeTheZ
@mcc: What on Earth makes you think the ReThugs understand how markets work? These are the people who, despite all evidence to the contrary, believe laissez faire and trickle down economics will result in prosperity for all.
Kirk Spencer
@The Populist: OK. Just in case, then, let me paraphrase (forgot to save, can’t copy and edit, and now it appears to have disappeared.)
I look forward to the court challenge of the states.
It will probably lose. Insurance is certainly an interstate issue and so the commerce clause covers — better than many times it’s been used in the past. There is also precedence.
Not just Massachusetts and the parallels. After all, that was just a state. No, my favorite precedence is education.
All children are mandated to be educated. Not going to school is can be done but it’s an exception and usually a burden.
The reason I prefer education, however, ties to the fact I hope the Attorneys General win. See, the ONLY point of attack for which there isn’t precedence is the fact the mandate is for private companies. There is no government option; no public option.
If they win, then, the government has two choices. They can simply remove the mandate, which has nasty effects on premiums due to decreased pools. Or they can add a public option, just as exists for education. Or, just to make sure all the points are noted, they can make single payer (such as medicare for all). That too meets precedence in common good benefits made available to all citizens.
And Another Thing...
@Brick Oven Bill: Take your sexist, adolescent ass and go find Makewi. You are definitely the skunk at the party.
BC
On the repeal thing, Makewi, get with the new talking points. They will not just repeal, they are going to repeal and replace. That means they will take out things like the Medicare cuts and the tax increases and leave in the no pre-existing conditions, no recissions, and other goodies. In effect, they will govern as they did from 2001-2006: legislate spending bills but not have them paid for. See, for example, Medicare Part D. McConnell didn’t say anything about repealing the individual mandate, however . . .
Calouste
@Kirk Spencer:
Isn’t the implementation of the mandate that you have to pay an additional tax to cover the use of medical facilities by people who can’t pay for it, but that you are excempt from the tax if you can show a health insurance certificate? I.e. there is still no one that forces you to buy insurance, you just get a tax incentive if you do. Like for example when you take out a mortgage to buy a house, you also get extra tax deductions compared to renters.
Mnemosyne
@Kirk Spencer:
Unless you first manage to challenge the constitutionality of states requiring drivers to purchase car insurance from private companies in order to drive a car, I don’t think that’s going to produce a win. Here in California, if you need low-cost insurance, you’re steered to a private company that has an agreement with the state at random and don’t pay a dime to the state itself.
soonergrunt
I just got home from work, I’ll throw this out there, since this thread is running pretty long–
What is it with right wingers talking about the kiddie-fucker Koresh and his cult bots like they’re some kid of heroes?
Maybe Makewi can explain to us what the fascination is with a guy who broke a bunch of laws, fucked little girls, conned hundreds of people out of their money and…never mind. I just got it.
So Makewi do tell–which part of that equation is yours?
Kirk Spencer
@Mnemosyne: The narrow weak part of that is that you aren’t mandated to have auto insurance unless you have a car. The health care insurance is everyone, period. It’s small, but might be large enough to split the hair.
@Calouste: I’ve read so many variations I honestly don’t remember. It’s either that or it’s related to the IRS tax return — think of “yet another 1099” that you have to include with the 1040.
Mark S.
@soonergrunt:
Child bride #14.
The Populist
@soonergrunt:
Cuz he gave a middle finger to a Dem administration. If he dared do it during Bush’s reign, he’d be called a terrist (Bush spelling), tortured and thrown the book at and they’d cheer that too.
Mark S.
@Kirk Spencer:
I think you’re right, I don’t think the car insurance analogy quite works.
EIGRP
@Kirk Spencer:
Maybe. You (the general you) aren’t mandated to live in the US either.
Are there any communities that have privatized water/sewer? I’m pretty sure people are mandated to use the sewer system instead of having cesspools/leech fields. I think the government has found that legal.
Anyway, all things being equal, I would rather pay to keep people healthy and prevent them from getting sick versus making them healthy after they are sick.
-Eric
Regnad Kcin
@Michael:
Plus, Timothy McHorstWessel. Also. Such as.
LD50
@Makewi:
Sorry, you fucking idiot, the GOP could take over both House and Senate in 2010 and they still wouldn’t have the votes to override Obama’s veto of any attempt to repeal HCR. It’s simply numerically impossible. So HCR is in place til 2013 and until then there isn’t jack shit any of you wingnuts can do, however many guns you accumulate or Black congressmen you spit on.
So you say, you’ll get president Palin in in 2012 and THEN repeal? 3 years after the enactment of HCR, and after the public has gotten used to the reforms? The GOP is going to run on a platform of kicking people BACK off insurance due to pre-existing conditions? ‘Vote for us, we’ll kick your 23-YO son off your medical coverage’? Good luck with that.
Kirk Spencer
@EIGRP: Agreed. That’s why I hope the AGs challenging the mandate win. It forces a fix. The fix choices are: drop it; add a public choice; make it all public.
Odds are that since people won’t want to give up the GOOD parts of the bill and do not want to have to pay MORE, that the latter two choices are what’ll happen.
Public option or single payer. All because some red-staters were short-sighted. I’ll take it.
Mnemosyne
@Kirk Spencer:
Possibly. But it sounds like you may be going down the rabbit hole of thinking that the potential problem in the bill is that people are mandated to pay their money to private companies. In fact, a whole lot of countries with universal healthcare — including Japan, Germany and Switzerland — mandate that their citizens pay their money to private companies. The problem we have is that our current healthcare system is for-profit, and all of the above countries have nonprofit systems.
If the for-profit insurers are eventually driven out by nonprofits, then you will have what you want even if we still pay our money to private companies because it’s not the “private company” part that’s the root of the problem. It’s the “for profit” part.
ETA: And don’t forget that “for profit” applies to many hospitals and other providers, not just insurance companies. Almost everything in our healthcare system is set up so someone, somewhere can profit from it.
And Another Thing...
@Kirk Spencer: With no/limited pre-existing condition exclusion and no right to cancel sick beneficiaries, insurance companies are royally screwed if the mandate were found to be unconsitutional. Their risk pools just progressively get worse and worse. These AG’s are ignorantly going off half-cocked. They profoundly do not understand the fundamentals of health insurance. I wonder how long it will take before R political leaders listen to the insurers and quietly back off. Regardless of the ideology, the policy stupidity is just astonishing.
Just for fun, some pro-single payer advocacy group should talk abt filing amicus briefs – that’ll set their heads to spinning.
FlipYrWhig
@The Populist:
Good theory, but the other big militia/white supremacist/black helicopter hero, Randy Weaver, gave a middle finger to a Republican administration: Ruby Ridge.
mcc
@And Another Thing…: I believe one of the claims of the wingnut AG suit is that the hcr bill has no severability clause. So they strike down the mandate, they strike down the law. Is their claim.
…man what the hell Apple Spellcheck, severability is totally a word.
goatchowder
Whiskey tango foxtrot?
My god. He’s saying, basically, “THE BITCH MADE ME HIT HER!”
That douchebag, and his teabagging followers, are beyond being creepy abuser types. At a national scale now, they’re terrorists.
They’re basically saying, “IT’S HER OWN FAULT, SHE JUST WOULDN’T FUCKING LISTEN!”
And what he’s calling for is a thousand Oklahoma City’s.
Arrest these anti-American terrorists immediately. I don’t want them running loose in my country.
Mike P
@Sentient Puddle: Well, when Jennifer Rubin is one of the people calling Cali going red, you need to take a step back. That, along with Chris “Obama having a divided Congress will be good for him” Cilzza (who probably penned the missive while in his smoking jacket) gives one another reason to pause.
I lived in CA for 8 1/2 years before moving to NYC for grad school. By and large, the red areas of the state are the Central Valley and the O.C. (aka the Orange Curtain) + San Diego. Everything else, that is to say, L.A., S.F./Bay Area, and most of the rest is pretty blue. If the GOP goes all in on the “scary Latinos” tack during immigration reform, they’re going to ensure CA never votes Republican again for the rest of our lives, given their rate of growth in the state. The “analysis” also avoids, as others noted, how unpopular Arnie is (Jerry Brown is probably the gov. frontrunner) and given the demographics of the state and who will benefit from #hcr, I would bet Boxer will be fine.
bob h
A criminal conviction could cost this clown his Social Security benefits.
liberal
@Mike P:
IIRC recent polling sez he’s now the most unpopular Cali governor in history, including Gray Davis.
MNPundit
@morzer: Yet we have done nothing but right a rearguard action from 1968-2008. Even now the HCR that passed is essentially A GOP PLAN FROM THE 1990s. It was their alternative to the Clinton plan. The passage is a victory for conservatism. This is our greatest victory? Enshrining conservative ideas? It has been acknowledged even by supports that there is almost no way this plan will actually lead to any kind of government insurance expansion. It will have to be a whole new fight.
We have let the Right paint us as effeminate pacifists. I have no desire to create false fear or invade other countries. But if the rightwing thinks it can launch some sort of revolution it will be time for payback for 40 years of abuse where we have had to do nothing but take it.
They have doomed our climate perhaps our species and caused suffering for untold millions. Our best has failed. I won’t instigate under any circumstances but if they do, it’s time for a reckoning.