[R]ecent Tea Party people who allegedly denounced a Parkinson’s patient or spat at gay and black congressmen might well have been agents. Offensive signs might be Made in DC too. Next might come calls for violence by alleged Tea Party types, and perhaps acts, which can be used to suppress dissent. Peaceful resistance is not only right, it is all that works, unless you are with the state. If anyone urges the use of violence, the state’s characteristic action, he is probably an agent.
And it looks like we’ve found another ACORN photoshop job:
dmsilev
So now they form a circle of mutual informers, all pointing at each other and screaming “heretic!”?
Excellent.
-dms
Midnight Marauder
What’s amazing is that this country has even been able to function at all with the vast amount of time government employees have spent making misspelled placards.
mantis
If anyone urges the use of violence, the state’s characteristic action, he is probably an agent.
Of course! No genuine teabagger would every advocate or commit violence. They came unarmed (this time).
beltane
Maybe there is no tea party movement at all. Maybe they are all government agents pretending to be teabaggers in an attempt to discredit the movement that does not exist and which no one belongs to. The reality is that this is all Rahm Emauel’s doing. He hired a bunch of actors to play the part of teabaggers just to mess with the minds of Fox viewers. Because he is evil and has nothing better to do with his time.
licensed to kill time
Oh for crap’s sake, these people see a conspiracy under every rock, a commie in every gathering. Authoritarians just want somebody to be in control.
cleek
If anyone urges the use of violence, the state’s characteristic action, he is probably an agent.
if anyone believes this, he is probably an idiot.
Tomlinson
These people live in a truly exciting, if obviously fictional, world. We have communist plots, federal detention centers, black helicopters, an illegitimate president, infiltrating agents, evil ACORNs and, yes, even armageddon.
I almost envy them. My world is generally much less fun.
geg6
These Teatards are really quite entertaining. I laugh endlessly at their sternly worded and massively misspelled signs. Like I said earlier, BOB is the only one of the bunch that knows how to spell. That’s how you can always spot him among the group. He’s the only one with a sign with correct spelling and pizza sauce stains.
freelancer (itouch)
Damn, those agents look just like the reel ‘merkan thing.
Ugh
Uh, didn’t the FBI and other law enforcement agencies do exactly what he alleges in the 1960s and 70s? And I do seem to recall that in more than one of the gangs of supposed terrorists prosecuted by the Bush adminstration the most enthusiastic and gung ho person in the group was the government informant.
I’m not saying that any of the assholes who spat on congressmen or belittled the guy with Parkinsons were government agents, just pointing out that there is ample precedent for the things he’s alleging in recent American history.
Scott
I’m actually fairly thrilled about this. I’ve been a conspiracy-theory junkie for years — I used to collect books and videos by crazies who believed that Illuminati were coming to get them. I got Donna Kossy’s “Kooks” book, as many of the old “Illuminati: New World Order” books as possible. If they’re all about to go this crazy again, we may be heading into a new Golden Age of Conspiracies. I wish Robert Anton Wilson were alive to see this…
Chad S
Rockwell is a retard, its been proven with science.
beltane
It usually takes a person many, many years of LSD use to have a thought process this illogical. What is these people’s excuse?
cleek
but that’s probably because browsers have built-in spellcheckers.
Bender
The right’s idiots misspell signs at protests. The left’s idiots do that too, and also, they are elected to Congress.
Legalize
This doesn’t even make sense on its own terms. If one acknowledges that the state has a monopoly on the use of force, or if the use of force is a characteristic function of the state, what the fuck is there left to oppose if you’re a teabagger?
Loneoak
I sure hope those FBI agents are getting hazard pay for the vast amounts of Cheeto dust they must be inhaling at those protests.
David
Sometime google UFO + Freerepublic and you’ll see there are daily threads about personal encounters with UFOs. It’s all par for the course with these people.
Midnight Marauder
@Ugh:
Not really, actually. What he’s alleging is not that the FBI or whatever government agency is attempting to infiltrate Tea Party groups’ membership. But rather, that essentially every terrible thing, word, or event that has been attributed to the Tea Party “Movement” is really the work of a nefarious group of undercover federal agents.
I get what you’re saying, but come now. We are talking about two very different dynamics in this situation.
Liz
I hate to admit it but this ‘movement’ is getting confusing to me. Thank the gods I have this blog to help me figure it out.
cleek
sure. but there’s also a ton of footage of wingners being all gun-pointy and fisty-shouty and threat-makey from the past 18 months – long before they got wise to the fact that the rest of the country was starting to worry about just how far the teabastards would go.
they were for violent retribution for their electoral failure long before they were against it.
Ugh
@Midnight Marauder: Fair enough.
jrosen
freelancer: And be sure to protect your precious bodily essences. (Didn’t we just date ourselves?)
When my son was home sick from school in the 6th grade I, as a single parent, rented some videotapes to keep him entertained. Most entertaining for me was watching him watch “Strangelove”. At first, it seemed to scare him, and then he quickly caught on that it was a put-on and he couldn’t contain himself. Every line in that classic is a gag. BTW, the black crewmember of the B52 reading the skinmag (“Miss Foreign Affairs”) was James Earl Jones making his screen debut. (I also had the pleasure that year of introducing my son to the true Marxists (Groucho, Chico, and Harpo).
Mark S.
If you see one guy sucking the testicles of another guy, they’re probably just regular teabaggers.
JZ
Taken to the logical extreme, there are actually 25 Tea Partiers. The rest are all FBI plants.
cleek
anyone else having comment-editing issues in FF ?
cs
I’m having vague memories of either a news story or a piece of fiction, in the late 60’s or early 70’s, about undercover agents outnumbering sincere members in some lefty group. Does this ring a bell for anyone? Almost sounds like something Burroughs or Hunter Thompson would write.
Considering the level of violent rhetoric in the Teahadist movement, the agents would definitely need to outnumber the outraged fat old people. I’m not sure that the FBI/CIA/UN Black Helicopter Division could find that many people with beer bellies and sallow skin to go undercover. I suppose any correctly spelled protest sign would be a key indicator of a plant.
beltane
@Legalize:
The President is not white. People who are not white are terrifying to them, even if they’re just mowing the fairway or changing a bedpan.
srv
Hey, they should reuse that informant from the Lodi trial, who swore Al Zawahari was running around the central valley in the 90’s.
He made out with like 6-figures. Maybe there’s some real cash to be made from cheetos-inhaling.
Polish the Guillotines
@Undercover FBI Agent DougJ: Again with the awesome title.
Morbo
:-O And now you’ve blown it!
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Ugh:
COINTELPRO
I don’t know if any of these idiots can be persuaded to support the idea of dialing back the national security state, the drug war and the GWOT on civil libertarian grounds, but there it is. It sucks, doesn’t it, when you don’t control the govt. and neither does the law?
Tonal Crow
@dmsilev: Vive le revolution!
Scott
@cs:
For some reason, that sounds like something out of Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson’s “Illuminatus!” trilogy. I’m not 100% sure — I’d already been thinking of Wilson a few minutes ago, so that might’ve confused me…
stuckinred
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Tommy the Traveler
garage mahal
Oh for crap’s sake, these people see a conspiracy under every rock, a commie in every gathering. Authoritarians just want somebody to be in control
I think it’s their desire to put their boot on someones neck, preferably a liberal, or someone a liberal advocates for. That’s why they always think someone wants to put their boot on their neck.
PeakVT
I bet the same people who are making these accusations would also think that having the FBI infiltrate and egg on left-wing groups is a great idea.
Lyle4
I don’t think there are enough current or former FBI/CIA/NSA/whatever else there is agents around who are white, old, fat and ride around on littler scooters to fill up the ranks.
Legalize
@beltane:
Right. Which is why this “government agent” thing fails on its own terms. All they have left is “Fear of a Black President.” But if there is a “movement” of teabaggers, don’t they have to have something else to justify to themselves a reason for having a movement? Unless they’re really comfortable being overtly cowardly racists – which maybe they are, or maybe they will become so.
boognish
Apparently the revolution will be supervised…
Cacti
@Ugh:
On the contrary, there is a long, inglorious history on the American right of assaulting, threatening, and even murdering people of color and homosexuals.
freelancer
@jrosen:
I’m 27.
jacy
Let me get this straight, anyone in the Teabagger movement who spews violent, racist, seditious rhetoric is really a government plant? Following that to its logical conclusion, Sarah Starburst has been an undercover FBI agent this whole time. Brilliant!
manwith7talents
@Tomlinson:
I agree with the idea that boredom is a big motivator for conspiracy types. The regular world is just so dull compared to what’s inside people’s imaginations, the books they read, and the movies they see. I see these theories as an attempt to escape from the mundane nature of life. Unfortunately, the alternate reality that they create is so exciting that they take up residence there and never leave.
yellowdog
@cs:
G. K.Chesterton (in the 1920s, I think) wrote a book called the The Man who was Thursday about a man who is told to infiltrate an anarchist group, in which members are only known by their code name, which is a day of the week. He finds out that everybody else in the group is also an agent.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Ah yes. The “A bad little boy did it and ran away” defense.
Martin
The black helicopters are laughing at them.
Lukore J. A. Baker
I don’t know. It’s kind of hard to top “Arkon DougJ.”
ellaesther
I repeat, for it’s all I can think of:
This is like when my children were in kindergarten.
Nothing was ever their fault either.
Today, at the ripe old ages of 1st and 5th grade, they know that they must occasionally take responsibility for poor decision making (or, in this case, spelling).
Teabaggers! Less emotionally advanced than the average 1st grader!
Bubblegum Tate
@Tomlinson:
Seriously. I don’t want to live in their world, but it does seem like an exciting place, full of intrigue and espionage and whatnot.
gypsy howell
That’s our Wasilla Hillbilly Grifter — anything for a buck
Bob L
I thought the government agent was also the young physically fit man who wanted to go bust heads? At lest that’s who the peace protesters during the Iraq war build up described them. I would expect that talibornagain militia to be a victim of that more than Teatards who can’t spell protest signs.
arguingwithsignposts
@Martin:
Needs … more … ellipses. Also.
Grumpy Code Monkey
So the message on the SUV inspired me to write “Dieses ist Amerika und unsere nur Sprache ist Englisch” or even “Это Америка, и наш только язык английская язык” on my truck just to be surreal.
Then I noticed the spelling error.
Stop the planet, it’s time for me to get off.
Calouste
@jacy:
She’s been an undercover agent ever since that damn liberal Bush was running the gubment.
patrick II
The teabonics site would be a lot more fun if I wasn’t such a bad speller myself.
cleek
@ellaesther:
but i thought the GOP was the party of personal responsibility ?
another cherished myth shattered.
geg6
@Bender:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pargon/sets/72157623594187379/
gbear
So what are they gonna do, start screaming anyone who urges the use of violence? That’ll work.
Notice that this doesn’t cover people (such as spitters and invective-shouters) who are inspired to individual acts of violence. You’re an evil infiltrator if you say “Yeah, go for it”, but “Hey guys, watch this!” is still OK.
Tomlinson
Anyone read Condominium? There was this whacky conspiracy theorist. Thing is, he doesn’t seem so whacky compared to the wingers. Relatively harmless, in fact.
R-Jud
@patrick II:
Bad spellers of the world, UNTIE!
IndyLib
@arguingwithsignposts:
The credenzas, on the other hand, are not amused.
Martian Buddy
Speaking of misspelled signs, here’s a prime example. Also, I don’t know where people get this cuh-rayzee idea that there are racist teabaggers, too.
(Sign may be NSFW if your workplace frowns on racial epithets.)
catclub
All the stimulus money went to paying informants.
Shovel ready, indeed.
Little Dreamer
@beltane:
That would be pure genius if it were true. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s exactly how it happened. Too bad! :(
Mnemosyne
Can anyone figure out which state that car is from? Because if it’s from anywhere West of the Mississippi, we all get to point and laugh at the person who thinks that “Los Angeles” and “Nevada” are, like, totally English words.
On a similar thought, I’ve been watching Henry Louis Gates’ PBS series, “Faces of America,” and it turns out that the person he interviews whose family has been here the longest (by far) is Eva Longoria Parker, whose family has lived in Texas since her x-times great-grandfather got a land grant from the King of Spain in the early 1600s.
cleek
looks like Georgia, to me.
ChrisS
Grifters need the gullible like plants need the sun.
Shit, I’m half thinking of starting a web-site to generate some dollars. The crazier shit that I spew, the more attention it will garner it seems. Since, I’m actually a trained scientist, there seems to be some good money in promoting climate denialism and intelligent design. Bang!
Enjoy living the working man’s life, suckers! I’m off to the Cayman’s.
Brick Oven Bill
The Teabagger is a man of stealth and mystery. His actions are unpredictable, sometimes a feint, sometimes a strategic relocation. He floats like a butterfly, but his powers are not limited to the simple sting of a bee.
The Teabagger instead harnesses lightening.
The Teabagger observes his foe forming O’s above their heads with their hands with a mild and soothing sense of amusement.
Because he knows how bad it must smell for that particular collective.
Montysano
When your movement comes to resemble a Firesign Theatre bit (“Everything You Know Is Wrong” comes to mind), you
might need to think about a redesign and retoolcontinue unchanged for the lolz of all.Martin
@arguingwithsignposts: I was going to include some ellipses, but they didn’t fax me their documentation in time.
stuckinred
@cleek: yup, there is a bill up right now to make drivers tests in English only. Some folks are calling it the “KIA go home” bill since they just opened a huge assembly plant in West Ga.
Wile E. Quixote
Oh joy, oh joy. Another birther fuckhead decides that he’s not going to deploy to Afghanistan.
Birther Fuckheads Never Learn
I hope the Army JAG crucifies this son of a bitch. Speaking of birther fuckheads does anyone know what happened to the guy that Oily Taint got to pull this stunt last year? Last I heard he’d lost his civilian job because his security clearance got yanked and his civilian employer was none too pleased that they’d worked with him on his deployment issues only to find out that the whole thing was a stupid prank.
licensed to kill time
@Mnemosyne:
I used to think it would be a great idea for newspapers to put the English translations of Spanish names in parentheses (i.e. La Jolla (the jewel) or El Cajon (the box) or Las Pulgas (the fleas) just so people in the Southwest could absorb a bit of Spanish with their Cheerios in the morning.
Nowadays it would likely spark a riot.
Little Dreamer
@manwith7talents:
My world isn’t dull at all, what with financial Armageddon happening at the same time as global warming, and the RCC (church) is suffering from the backlash from their buggering little boys for decades – and a large percentage of those who claim to be Christian Republicans are just waiting for Jesus to return any minute now? And did you hear that Obama might be (but isn’t really) the Anti-Christ?
Nope, not boring at all. At this rate, I’ll be needing bypass surgery soon.
Makewi
The nice part about this tactic of “proving” what a bunch of racists bigots these teabaggers is, is that it allows you to completely ignore what they are saying regarding their disapproval with the current direction the fed is taking. I think perhaps you guys should start giving yourself religiously themed titles to go along with your new positions as witch hunters and finders of heresy.
cleek
@Wile E. Quixote:
yay! what an image!
i will try not to think again, all day – so that it will never leave my mind.
Morbo
@Mnemosyne: East of the Mississippi, south of the Ohio (restrain your surprise).
ETA: @licensed to kill time: Boca Raton would be just terrific.
Martin
@Mnemosyne: Unlike English named-places such as Mississippi, Massachusetts, Florida, Tallahassee?
scav
So, do they surround us or is it really the Feds?
Aside: Well, that’d be one way to get at unemployment.
canuckistani
@yellowdog:
Also a subplot in Harry Harrison’s Bill The Galactic Hero. This one is funnier, and may be a better reading choice for teabag watchers.
Mattminus
The tea parties are becoming more and more like a college socialist group, but without the Amiri Baraka readings and drugs.
licensed to kill time
@Morbo: Heh heh heh. I think some folks would be quite surprised ;-)
Bender
@Martin:
Speaking of idiots who misspell words…
I wonder what Martha Coakley would say about the spelling thread?
morzer
teabagger: “You spika ma lanaguage?”
passerby: “No, I am an American.”
teabagger: “I spitta on you, you liberal elitist!”
Martin
@Makewi: We’re not ignoring it – we just don’t care. So there are a bunch of people pissed off at the government – big fucking deal – there always are. Did anyone on the right give a shit when Democrats were pissed off? Did they stop in their tracks and say ‘Hey, maybe we shouldn’t torture these people because those hippies are carrying signs?’ Nope.
When you gather enough people to win elections, then we’ll talk. In the meantime, you’re just a few thousand pissed off people in a nation of 300 million. Please try to remember that the world does not revolve around you.
Wile E. Quixote
@jrosen:
You’re awesome. My Dad and I watched that together when I was like 12 or something. I enjoyed the movie then because of the scenes in the B-52, which are pretty exciting, but most of the humor, with the exception of “Gentlemen, this the war room, there’s no fighting in here”, went over my head. Over the years as I matured and watched the movie again and again I finally was able to fully understand and appreciate its brilliance.
One of the most brilliant things about the movie, and it still sucks me in after all these years, is how you feel when you’re going between the war room and the B-52. In the war room you want the B-52 to fail its mission and not drop the bomb. In the B-52 you want Slim Pickens and the crew to get through to the target and drop the bombs, and I still laugh my ass off when Slim Pickens ends up riding the bomb down to the target, even though it means the end of civilization and humanity.
scav
@Bender: my favorite misspelling of that, well, mispronunciation technically, is Mange mes chausettes
Joseph Nobles
Now this is a fine example of early 21st-century American Teabonics.
Brick Oven Bill
The Teabagger considers at all times the wisdom of his Ancients:
Measurement owes its existence to Earth;
Estimation of quantity to Measurement;
Calculation to Estimation of quantity;
Balancing of chances to Calculation;
and Victory to Balancing of chances.
Therefore, when a person offers the Teabagger free cigarettes to do stuff, the Teabagger says ‘no’.
‘I choose to purchase my own cigarettes, and maintain my thoughts unencumbered by your crappy generic tobacco.’
Thus the Teabagger is able to see clearly, and make accurate measurements.
Chyron HR
@Bender:
@Makewi:
How’s that completely failing to stop the health care bill-y thing workin’ out for ya?
rootless-e
They’re constitutionalists
it’s just that easy
Ashcroft’s spying
did not make them queasy
When Gonzo said
Habeus my ass
they were happy
to take a pass
but regulating health insurance
has pushed them past their endurance
you can blow off free speech and press
and trial by jury
none of that provokes this fury
because they know that liberty can regrow
unless the President is
a ..
None of this has to do with race.
None.
Jack
Wingnuts have conspiracy theories about Bavarian Illuminati and Socialist Takeovers.
Liberals have conspiracy theories about Democrats working night and day for the good of the common man…
sparky
@Makewi: aren’t they all buying gold through mistah Beck so they will be safe anyway?
Mark S.
This is like some aligning of the troll planets that only occurs once a century.
Martin
@Bender: Since she lost, I think she’d appreciate the point we’re trying to make. Or have you missed the point as well?
The Moar You Know
@Makewi: I don’t give a flying fuck what this bunch of inbred retards that were conceived on top of a containment vessel of a nuclear reactor think. At all.
Elections have consequences. One of them is that you don’t get your way, no matter how loud you bitch and moan, if you’re the loser.
At least that’s what I learned between 2000 and 2008. A lesson I’m not going to forget anytime soon.
AngusTheGodOfMeat
@Brick Oven Bill:
Christ, you’ve turned into Birdzilla.
Little Dreamer
@Montysano:
“In the Next World You’re On Your Own”
;)
Yes, I see the similarity.
__
Firesign Theatre: We’re All Bozos On This Bus
Also:
__
;)
Thanks for the
mammariesmemories!mcc
On the surface, she’s a housewife, but in fact, she’s an agent.
Zam
Michelle Bachman is a liberal plant!
freelancer
@Mark S.:
BTD C’mon down!
Makewi
@Martin:
I can tell how little you care by how much it doesn’t consume your conversations. Also by how little you embellish your stories about things like “nigger yelling” and spitting. I can tell how chill you are about all this, Torquemada.
licensed to kill time
@Mark S.:
When the Loon is in the 7th house
And Teabaggers align with Mars
Then Morans will guide the planets
And BOB will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the Age of InsanitUS
Martian Buddy
@Makewi: We’ve only spent the last 14+ months mocking their hyperbole about death panels and soshulist takeovers of Medicare. I don’t know what the hell you’re on, but it’s obviously causing long-term memory impairment.
DanF
The first thing any good undercover FBI agent wants to do is risk being filmed spitting upon a congressman. It’s the only way to preserve anonymity and not blow your cover.
Little Dreamer
@AngusTheGodOfMeat:
Or did Birdzilla turn into BOB?
Umm, where are you? You’re not here.
cleek
go pie filter, go!
Makewi
@The Moar You Know:
We can do whatever we want, despite the wishes of the people, because we won. Majority rule with minority protection can go fuck itself. That is until the “other side” gets back into power at which point we will quickly adopt your POV.
You made us do this.
Wile E. Quixote
@Makewi:
Makewi, you are a worthless, good for nothing racist piece of shit. You and the rest of your bagger and birther chums didn’t give two fucks in a rat’s ass about the Constitution before 20 January 2009. You sat around for eight years while George W. Bush trashed the Constitution, wrecked the economy, ran up massive amounts of debt, got us into a stupid foreign war in Iraq and let the mastermind of 9/11 escape at Tora Bora and did nothing. But all of a sudden, once a black man was elected president you scumbags suddenly decided that the government was too big and that something must be done.
Fuck you bigots, your opinions are worthless because you’re worthless. You’re shit, garbage and filth. I flush better things than you down the toilet every morning. The conservative movement in America is nothing more than a collection of parasitic third rate filth who contribute little or nothing to society but who think that they’re indispensable. The fact is that if we rounded you fuckers up and sold your asses into slavery in North Korea America would be a better, stronger and much smarter country than it is today. Plus most of you guys would end up really liking it in North Korea because you’re stupid, easily led, incapable of accepting responsibility, afraid of being free and need a powerful authority figure to tell you what to think.
Makewi
@Chyron HR:
Not well. You can’t win them all.
Makewi
@Wile E. Quixote:
That is a fascinating story, made even more impressive by your anger. These are the sort of things you tell yourself are true in order to allow yourself to be a hero to your cause. That it doesn’t describe me, or even reality, in any way at all should not dissuade you from your belief. Go warrior priest. Start the next inquisition.
Wile E. Quixote
@Makewi
You mean cool titles like your crazy friends in the Hutaree?
Chyron HR
@Makewi:
Well, don’t give up! Your political movement is very powerful and relevant, so I’m sure the next time you spend an entire year trying to influence legislation, you might manage to do so.
Ripley
Why does the FBI hate our feedoms?
licensed to kill time
Remember that crappy rape cartoon linked here the other day, the one where Lady Liberty gets it from – well, you can guess who. I read through some of the thread on that nasty site, and guess who was there spewing nonsense? Makewi, that’s who. Nice place it hangs out at.
Seebach
@Makewi: Does that mean you DO want us to send you to North Korea? Because I’d be very happy to help pay for the ticket.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
WTF are you talking about? That’s not a religious argument, it’s a political argument and what he stated happened actually DID happen. If you have to hide your head in the sand and act like you didn’t give Bush a pass to give yourself the ability to sleep at night, that’s YOUR problem, not his.
Seebach
HANNITY: When you think about the vast majorities that they have in Congress and they had to bribe, backroom deals, corruption, that’s all because the tea party movement, the people — all these Tim McVeigh wannabes here.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Look on Kos. Being called a McVeigh wannabe is a complement.
gbear
@licensed to kill time:
That cartoon was lower than low. Anyone who’d hang out on that site is a bottom feeding, scum sucking piece of crap.
Dr. Loveless
@Martian Buddy:
He just left the d off of “niggard.” What’s racist about that?
Loneoak
“If anyone urges the use of violence, the state’s characteristic action, and is not wearing Loony Toons sweatpants from the early 90s, is less than 30 lbs overweight, and does not have a chin mullet he is probably an agent.”
Fixed.
Tonal Crow
@Makewi:
We *made* Bush and his supporters act out their totalitarian fantasies? Wow, I never realized we DFHs had that kind of power. Damn, I’d better chuck this ring I’m wearing in the fire and see what’s written on it.
Makewi
@licensed to kill time:
Where do you expect heretic witches to hang out at?
Midnight Marauder
@Martin:
Racist.
@Makewi:
At the stake. Because we set them on fire.
Seebach
@Tonal Crow: Just to repeat, because I think it is salient and needs to be all over twitter:
HANNITY: When you think about the vast majorities that they have in Congress and they had to bribe, backroom deals, corruption, that’s all because the tea party movement, the people — all these Tim McVeigh wannabes here.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
There is a link to the video on Kos.
licensed to kill time
@gbear:
Oh man, I agree. The thread was at 600+, and I wondered what people were saying there. It seemed to be a core of about 12 who were reinforcing each other in racist/sexist bilge with a few intrepid liberals trying to argue in good faith. I was not very surprised when I saw Makewi there.
Makewi
@licensed to kill time:
I’m curious though, can you point out exactly what nonsense you felt I was spewing or is my association withe the unsavory types enough to convict me on that count. I mean, I understand how you priests of acceptable speech feel that free speech is for suckers, but how is a lowly plebe supposed to know where a line has been crossed.
Can I, for example, still allude to the rape of mother earth?
kommrade reproductive vigor
Remember children: Wash your hands after you play with your Makewi.
Makewi
@Tonal Crow:
Can you be more specific about the totalitarian fantasies that Bush, and apparently by extension I, acted out?
Lyle4
This picture is from just this afternoon
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gB02SybIk1Ln/610x.jpg
I don’t know dude, you’re a CIA agent, couldn’t you get a bit more creative than just going with the old “traiters” and “it’s people”…? Weaksauce.
flukebucket
Any questions that you have about the Tea Party movement can be answered by simply attending a Tea Party event.
Hell. I have infiltrated the Tea Party.
One of the members sent me this via email today.
No need to believe or not believe what anybody tells you. Just go to a Tea Party and shake a few hands and decide for yourself who and what they are.
Seebach
@Makewi: PATRIOT Act and illegal war, warrantless wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, etc.
Tonal Crow
@Makewi: So criticism of a wingnut’s speech implies hatred of freedom of speech? Is that your argument?
Mark S.
@Makewi:
Darleen Wisdom–come for the racist rape cartoons, stay for the 8,000 word essays on semiotics.
kommrade reproductive vigor
That’s because it has been proven that ACORN photoshopped the 5,000 pound homemade bomb into McVeigh’s truck.
Chuck Butcher
@Makewi:
You have to give Makewi credit for being almost good at this. You see Iraq war protestors didn’t hate a stupid war based on lies – they hated America. It figures its meme is being used against it. The point it misses is that when your (bowel)movement is based on demonstrably false and stupid basis you attract stupid people.
I haven’t noticed much of the attitude around here that scepticism of government is a bad thing. It sure would help if their scepticism were based on things other than historically low taxes and governmental interference in a broken financial system. It might help a whole lot if the confluence of Democratic majorities and a black President didn’t coincide with teabaggery rather than the complete ignoring of the BushCo bullshit.
I don’t know that Makewi is a racist asshole, it is just that Makewi’s assholery attracts assholes and assholes who are racist isn’t particularly unusual.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
What happened? The spitting or the nigger yelling? I’ve seen the spitting video, and it certainly looks more like a case of say it don’t spray it then anything else. If it was actually spitting, then why wasn’t the perpetrator arrested on the spot considering a cop was right there?
Brick Oven Bill
Not only does the Teabagger celebrate his Ancients, he also raises his heart to dance among his Arts, and his Sciences. These give him great joy.
Therefore when the Teabagger sees a dog in an icy environment, he does not pick it up as he correctly deduces that the ice would create a low coefficient of friction below his feet that, when combined with a high center of gravity created by a dog in one’s arms, can lead to nothing good.
The Teabagger allows the dog to use its paws.
Dr. Loveless
@licensed to kill time:
… after which we’d pass a law requiring all Spanish-derived place names be converted to English, and we’d all be talking about whether The St. James Fathers will end the season over .500 while little Jimmy writes a school report on fossils in The The Tar Tar Pits.
Tonal Crow
@Seebach: Not to mention torture.
gbear
So are the children of liberals “Traiter tots?”
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
That is not what I was referring to and you know it.
Read the post I linked to, and the post THAT linked to and answer the fokking question.
Makewi
@Seebach:
Thank God Obama got rid of those things, well at least the parts that the Democrat controlled Congress got rid of once they got the legislature back in 2006. Pray tell, what made that war illegal?
Chad N Freude
So how come nobody has mentioned that at the time of Tommy the Traveler and the other provocatourists the FBI was run by that great respecter of the Law, J. Edgar Hoover.
Makewi
@Chuck Butcher:
You sir, deserve to be a bishop in this new church. It takes a real thinker to simply place on me all those things that you assume someone like me must believe. Why bother with actual arguments when you can simply cry “There is a witch!”.
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
Not relevant to anything in particular, but what is the pronunciation guide on your handle? Muh-kew-ee or make-a-wee?
Also, worries about teh Fed? Is that sloppese for Federal Government, or short for the Federal Reserve (the latter being the common usage of the term).
If it’s about the Federal Reserve, all I can say is, uneducated rednecks have been squawking about it for many decades. I heard the line that the Federal Reserve was “unconstitutional” when I was in frigging grade school over 50 years ago. I thought it was a crock then and nothing has changed my mind in the interim.
Little Dreamer
@Chuck Butcher:
Skepticism of the government ISN’T a bad thing, but when you have recent memories of eight years of BushCo and the possibility of McInsane and Sarahdipity in the White House if Obama hadn’t won – it’s kind of hard to be skeptic.
Seebach
@Makewi: Who here has excused those things now that Obama has continued them? All of us want them to stop, except you Teabaggers.
It was illegal under the US Constitution, since the UN charter became law of the land after Senate ratification.
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
Time for you to head for the hardware store if you are going to keep nailing yourself to that phony cross, kid.
Makewi
@Midnight Marauder:
Well, you give it the old college try in any case. Mostly I notice that you try to preserve your flame for lighting bongs and such and expect others to actually light up the witches.
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@gbear:
French smallfries?
Makewi
@Seebach:
I see, and can you point out where the UN considered it illegal.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Makewi:
We’re not ignoring what they’re saying because they’re racists. We’re ignoring what they’re saying because what they’re saying makes no goddamned sense. Seriously. They’ve been fed multiple contradictory lines of bullshit by opportunists like Palin and are regurgitating stuff that’s positively Dadaesque, epitomized by phrases like “keep the government out of my Medicare”.
Cris
@Makewi: I actually agree with this.
Makewi
@AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat:
Actually the only defense of myself I have given is that I didn’t say anything you could consider objectionable in that oh-my-god-can-you-believe-that-a-rape-comparison-exists-that-doesn’t-involve-mother-earth-or-rape-of-poor-people-by-corporations thread. I’m merely pointing out that you tend to expend all your energy proving that the opposition is unworthy of consideration not based on their ideas, but on this notion that they are all bigoted idiots and as such are witches.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Makewi:
Folks on the right have been angry over a lot of things in this country over the years. People were angry when Truman fired Gen. MacArthur. They were angry at Eisenhower when Little Rock Central High was integrated. They were angry when LBJ signed Medicare into law. Heck, they were even angry at Ronald freaking Reagan when he went off the reservation and starting being all chummy with Gorbachev and talking hippy shit about abolishing ballistic missiles and stuff in the late 1980s.
Are you really suggesting that the best index of whether people should be taken seriously and whether we should pay attention to their concerns is how angry they are? And have you thought thru the consequences of following thru on that – ’cause if anger is suddenly the royal road to being taken seriously and having our concerns addressed, I think us folks on the left can do anger too, ya’ know what I mean? We just don’t do it so much now because over the years we’ve learned how counterproductive it is.
But if you really feel a deep, compelling need to go relearn thru painful experience all the lessons the angry left learned from the late 60s through till today, by all means be my guest and go do so. Maybe in 30 years we can sit down and have an interesting conversation about how well that worked out for you.
Seebach
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3661134.stm
Chuck Butcher
@Makewi:
The Church of Makewi The Risen Asshole? I imputed to you assholery, which you have demonstrated here for quite some time. I’m not going to waste the finger exercise on a list of your stupidities that no one will waste eye time on.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
What ideas? The only ideas they seemed to have had they recently decided weren’t good enough because Obama agreed with them.
licensed to kill time
__
It’s pronounced Makewank, folks. All it wants to do is wank.
Legalize
Why isn’t anyone seriously Makewi’s points? He/she/it is a proponent of a very important minority of the population – that can’t win elections or legislative battles. He/she/it didn’t vote for the 3/5 majority in the Senate, the large Dem majority in the House, or the US president who received more votes than any other ever ever ever ever. Address his/her/its temper tantrum.
Makewi
Again, Bush made us do it.
Little Dreamer
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
__
If that’s Makewi’s argument, I want to know why it didn’t apply to the anger we felt during the Bush years.
Makewi
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
People are only angry when the left does stuff they don’t like. When the right does stuff, they have only reasoned discourse to contribute and their opinions must be considered.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
It isn’t my argument.
Little Dreamer
That’s right Makewi, keep giving a pass to the “Mission Accomplished” idiot!
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
LolWTF?
Uh, I requested a pronunciation guide for your handle and got this … whatever the fuck it is. Rape? Are you on that “shove it up your ass” thing from last week? Were you one of those claiming that the phrase has some connection to rape? I suppose you think “pull my finger” is about masturbation?
You’re a lunatic. Seriously, go away. Life is too short to put up with fucking crazy people.
Unless you are doing spoof, in which case, good job.
Napoleon
Excellent use of a Rolling Stone lyric DougJ.
Wile E. Quixote
You’re right Makewi, I’m pissed. I despise stupidity, hypocrisy and cowardice, which means that I despise baggers, birthers and pretty much all conservatives because they’re stupid, hypocritical cowards and these stupid, hypocritical cowards spent eight years trashing a country I love, a country I served in uniform (unlike most of them and unlike you) and now that they’re out of power and have been repudiated have turned into a bunch of whiny, punk-ass bitches. I’m pissed that I have to pay taxes to support you worthless no-loads and wish that we could kick your dumb, lazy, racist asses out of the country and replace you with honest, hard working Mexican immigrants.
You talk about an inquisition. Hmmm, funny since you and your conservative friends are the ones who have been running around talking about starting secession and a new civil war. Hey, how did that last civil war work out for you guys? Not too well as I recall. And now that the violent rhetoric of you and your crazy friends is starting to attract attention and people are starting to realize what a bunch of nasty, racist losers you are, you’re trying to distance yourself from it by saying that it’s not your fault, that everyone in your movement who ever did anything dumb or bad actually works for the government (the term is agent provacateur). It’s a nice try to attempt to avoid responsibility, but let’s face it, there just aren’t enough government agents or enough hours in the day for them to account for your movement’s stupidity and repulsiveness.
Go Boramander. Eat some more Chee-tos and pry open your copy of Atlas Shrugged.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
__
Oh, I see, you haven’t taken your meds yet. I completely understand now.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
I imagine you actually believe this is true. It’s really easier this way isn’t it?
Makewi
@Wile E. Quixote:
I give you points for anger, but you still cling to this fantasy that the person you think you are talking to is me. I suppose if it helps you to do so then it would be cruel to try to get you to stop. The good news is that you are certainly in the running for the pope position.
Chuck Butcher
@Little Dreamer:
Bush and the GOP Congress don’t count, they never existed except as a figment of the leftist imagination…
Errr, no – well
If you care to look you’ll find Makewi all over the intertubes protesting the BushCo big government and no-bid…
Errr, no – well
Makewi is a witch who will be burned at the liberal stake for being … publicly stupid?
Makewi
@AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat:
The cross comment is what I was responding to. Maybe if you were less thug like you could keep up with your OWN FUCKING COMMENTS.
Midnight Marauder
@Makewi:
I am having a great time watching you flounder yet again in a web of your own obtuseness, ignorance, and absurdity. Like this for example:
Amazing stuff. Really, keep it up, Makewank. You are killing it today.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Obama begged Republicans to bring their ideas to the table, where did those ideas go if they existed?
I am not saying that whatever ideas Republicans brought to the table would get an automatic pass (of course not, all ideas are discussed and weighed before decisions and votes occur) but – the fact is, there weren’t any ideas. The only ideas that ended up in the HCR Bill were ideas that were discussed during previous administrations and campaigns (Mitt Romney, for one).
There were a lot of Republican ideas that were placed in the HCR bill, so, why did the Repubs all vote against them if they were such good ideas?
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
What the heck does last week’s thread have to do with this thing you are doing today?
I asked two rather easy questions, really. How do you pronounce your handle, and what do you mean by “Fed?”
Two coherent sentences would handle the matter.
Cris
@Midnight Marauder: You know Makewi doesn’t consider Kofi Annan a legitimate UN Secretary-General. The guy had a Nigerian birth certificate, for goodness sake.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Perhaps you’ve never been diagnosed and a recommendation of a psychiatrist is in order? Tell him or her that you are in dire need of an emergency appointment. You’re losing it.
Legalize
@Cris:
This is the heart of the matter. This overfluffed political minority that can’t win elections, considers everything to which it is allegedly opposed illegitimate by definition. It’s the only way they can justify not being taken seriously be the people they hope to influence. It doesn’t occur to them that spitting on Congressmen, “targeting” politicians who don’t vote with them, calling Congressmen the n word, or homosexual slurs, doing the bidding of corporate astroturf fronts, and being totally against everything they claimed to be totally for only months earlier, might turn people off to their *important* “movement.”
Makewi
In any case, keep up the good work people. It’s important to ensure that any dangerous ideas be shut down early.
danimal
@Dr. Loveless: I’ll be rooting for the St. James Fathers to beat the The Angel Dodgers for the next several months. In the AL, I also root for The The Angels Angels.
Cris
@Makewi: Would you shut down already, then?
Citizen_X
@Lyle4: “To Uphold Our Constitution of the United States and It’s People“?
So…the U.S. Constitution is made of…Soylent Green?!?
Midnight Marauder
@Makewi:
That is so cute, you thinking that you’ve expressed any “ideas” here at all, let alone “dangerous” ones.
Too, too cute, Makewank.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Isn’t that what your side said when we were unhappy with Bush and the righties stated that it was wrong to criticize the Bush administration’s policies?
How come it’s okay to do so now that Obama is in office?
Our side didn’t say that dissent was wrong, your side did. Why is it that you wingers never seem to play by your own rules except when it’s conveniently in your favor?
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
You could stop with the your side/my side crap at any point and discuss any actual idea that either side is putting forth, weigh them on their merits, discuss the possible outcomes both pro and con. Or you could just say those fucking teabaggers is racists and save yourself all the trouble.
Citizen_X
@Makewi: Weigh Teabagger ideas on their merits? Hmm…
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, July 30, 1816
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Oh, partisanship all of a sudden doesn’t exist?
Right.
Get yourself to a shrink quickly, better go check the yellow pages, time is of the essence.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
IOKIYAR – that seems to be your stance.
If you defend Bush policies, you are part of the reason why that partisanship exists.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Shorter Makewi:
I can’t argue that what we did was right, so I’m just going to act like those things never happened at all.
(You know, admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery – I’m just saying!)
mantis
@Makewi:
In any case, keep up the good work people. It’s important to ensure that any dangerous ideas be shut down early.
All teabagger ideas are dangerous, as they are painfully ignorant of reality, and if implemented would lead to economic disaster. Teabaggers want the government to keep its damn hands off of their government run Medicare, Social Security, disability, etc, while cutting all taxes. That would be disastrous. Of course, in that way, they are exactly like the Republican Party. Increase spending + cutting taxes. That’s what we had under Bush, and it was disastrous. Teabaggers want more. Their are ideas are dangerous, not because they upset the status quo, but because they are dangerously stupid.
In short, stop whining about people laughing at your dangerously stupid ideas and come up with some good ones. If you can.
Triassic Sands
@Little Dreamer:
The Republicans really only had one idea for use during the Obama administration:
Start Over….
Implement idea…
Start Over…
Implement idea…
Start Over…
Implement idea…
Start Over…
Implement idea…
Start Over…
Implement idea…
…
Win 2012 presidential election.
The point was to do nothing until they can win control of the White House again. At which time they would implement their own health care revolution:
Tort Reform
Super High Deductible Policies (more “skin” in the game)
Health Savings Accounts (still more “skin” in the game)
De-regulation (cross border purchasing with no oversight)
Tort Reform is always first on the list, because, as the Orange Boner said, lawsuits are the biggest driver of health care cost increases (he didn’t even flinch when he stated that “fact”). Of course, the other fundamental problem with our system is that Americans aren’t risking enough. If we can ensure that every decision to go to a doctor could threaten to bankrupt the individual, then we could get health care costs under control.
HSAs are a huge winner for people with lots of disposable income, and not so much help for those who are struggling financially. A perfect exemplar of Republican ideas.
With Republican reform in place we’d have millions more uninsured, scores of thousands more bankruptcies, richer doctors, richer insurance companies, richer pharmaceutical companies, poorer lawyers (a major GOP target), health care costs still rising out of control, and a market swamped with worthless insurance policies.
What’s not to like?
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
This tactic is a good one too. This is where you determine that because of some supposed hypocrisy that I have exhibited I have no right to speak on an issue. All of your effort is spent to determine that the witch is unworthy, and then none has to be spent seeing what they say. Bravo!
I never said there wasn’t partisanship, nor do I think that it is a bad thing that there is.
Makewi
@mantis:
Social Security is broke, it just happened. Did you know that?
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
From a TeaParty website, this “partner” in the movement.
No, nothing to worry about there.
Little Dreamer
Gosh, Makewi, I have to deeply apologize. Republicans DO apparently have ideas.
So sorry!
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Oh no, I never said that you couldn’t speak on an issue, I just want to know why you shove so much under the carpet in hopes nobody will notice (even when we’ve brought it to your attention already) and when you get called out for it you act like it didn’t happen.
Please, speak all you want (I want an effective opposition party with ideas, really), but, could you please address the fact that you DO sweep so much under the rug and why?
If you can’t, then I’m sorry that you’re going to claim that you have to shut your own self down and blame me – that’s not my problem.
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
Actually, Social Security is starting to use funds that were set aside starting 30 years ago just for this purpose, just exactly to handle the present actuarial reality … because it was anticipated and planned for.
The present drawdown of these funds, is directly attributable to the economic downturn created by Bushonomics, and will likely turn back around and restabilize onto the path projected when the trust fund was established.
Social Security is not broke, and you are liar.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Makewi:
Ideas like budgets with no numbers? Or ideas like cutting taxes and deregulation, because that’s worked so well up to this point? Or ideas like opposing any legislation put forth by the Democrats, regardless of the merits, because they had the temerity to pass a bill that contained Republican proposals?
Obama has spent the last year attempting to reach out to congressional Republicans and have them participate in the process, much to the consternation of people like Greenwald and Hamsher, and the Republicans have repeatedly refused. That landmark health care law that just went into effect was chock full of Republican proposals, which is why people like Hamsher were so desperately wanting to kill it. Yet the Republicans refused to participate in the process. Instead they spread lies and misinformation and stirred up the teabaggers. Why should we want to work with people who have no interest in cooperating?
arguingwithsignposts
Once again, I think it is high time to raise a glass to the wondrous cleek for his pie filter. With Bender, BoB and Makeweewee showing up in triforce today, the filter has been getting a workout. Still holding tight, though.
daryljfontaine
@Little Dreamer:
Textbook trollery; even if you grant the concession that the textbook troll may not espouse the more repugnant and reality-ignorant views of the Tea Party crowd, you will never actually get the textbook troll to address the actual questions, such as:
• Why does the behavior of the conservative right as a general block get a pass for the first eight years of the decade, and why is it somehow “witchfinding” to point out this rank hypocrisy?
• What are these supposed “ideas with merit” being forwarded by the Tea Party crowd?
In other words, if commenters here are ignoring the meritorious ideas of the Tea Partiers, the request is to please enumerate those ideas and be prepared to defend them.
Instead, the textbook troll ignores the pointed questions and responds to the invective hurled (provoked by frustration at having to deal with the reality-ignorant), provoking even more invective and claiming that somehow this proves the textbook troll’s point.
The questions, however, still exist unanswered, and will never be effectively answered. This is not the textbook troll’s game. So if you actually get some real enjoyment out of hurling insults at the textbook troll, continue as you see fit; if it instead makes your blood pressure rise, step back and realize that, like a monkey flinging poo, the textbook troll does not care about the metaphorical shit on its hands, only that the shit has spattered its targets.
D
Little Dreamer
@daryljfontaine:
Thank you for that very informative post daryl. I will expect that Makewi will either put up or shut up about the witchhunting charge hereafter, seeing that not doing so only proves your (and my) point.
;)
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
Oh yeah, nothing but good old fashioned grassroots politics and policy when you dig into the Tea Party.
The good news, I think, that these crazy fucks are going to flame out just in time for November.
Nothing to see here, just a quiet political grassroots movement. Nothing radical. Makewi must be right.
mantis
@Makewi:
Social Security is broke, it just happened. Did you know that?
First off, Social Security is not “broke.” And what’s the teabagger/Republican solution? Cut taxes! Don’t worry, it will all work once we figure out what phase 2 is.
Makewi
@daryljfontaine:
Who says they get a pass, and for what sins do they need one for? Is there now a benchmark for who is allowed to be considered legitimate enough to be allowed an opinion that is not met with cries of “heretic”?
Here is one idea of merit. Should the government have the right to force you to buy a product from a private entity based on the simple fact that you are alive?
Makewi
@AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat:
Wait, SS set funds aside? Too funny.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Keep screaming about how you’ve been victimized and persecuted Makewi, I’m sure that the constant and loud echoing of said tactics by you and your political allies will give voters enough reason to keep your kind of crazy from achieving power again for a long, long time.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Are you going to tell me that you don’t carry car insurance when you drive a car? Or are you instead making it clear that you’re not old enough to drive and have no clue what I’m even talking about?
Do you own a home? I’m sure that your mortgage company was REAL HAPPY to hear that you wouldn’t be carrying any homeowner’s insurance and just stamped a big ol’ APPROVED stamp on your application, NOT!
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
Yeah, hilarious. But meanwhile, it’s the law and has been since about 1983. Excess funds are placed into a trust, which is a dynamic set of bonds. The bonds’ value is not just “pieces of paper” as stated by George Bush The Idiot. Their value is the faith and credit of the United States, just as with all US bonds. They must be honored when redeemed, otherwise the faith and credit thing pretty much goes up in smoke.
Bush tried to discredit this system in 2005, and it set him on a course to second term failure and unpopularity just about unrivaled in modern American history. He claimed that he had earned “poitical capital” in getting reelected, and promptly blew all of it in about 8 weeks’ worth of trying to fuck with Social Security. A tragic tale, really. For him.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
Both of those things you mention require me to do something first (Drive a car, buy a house). In this instance, I don’t need to do anything other than draw breath and for that privelage I must pay a private entity or pay a fine for failure to do so.
See the difference?
Makewi
@AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat:
So, you are asserting there are currently the funds necessary to cover those bonds that are due today? The Chinese would be surprised to hear that.
Comrade Kevin
@Makewi: “Social Security Trust Fund”. Look it up, moron.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
No, I don’t. If you have the ability to become a terrible financial burden on society for doing something (including breathing) that could create a ruinous situation one day, you need to have insurance for it.
I don’t care that all you are doing is breathing, regulation is a GOOD thing. It keeps societies more organized and running smoother.
Nobody is going to force you to get rid of the current insurance you have (if you currently have that benefit) but you not having that benefit could create substantial financial loss both to you and perhaps to others as well.
Furthermore, I can’t understand why you want to remove the possibility for those who don’t have insurance because they can’t afford it to have it? Or do you just not care about those people at all? Do you have any empathy for humanity Makewi, or are you a “I got mine, fuck you” kind of person?
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Makewi, turn off Fox News and come back to reality. Those conspiracy theories may be fun to play with, but they make you appear to be an idiot!
Why do you want to look like an idiot?
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
First, stop with the guessing at my motivations. Second, this isn’t simply regulation. This is the federal government forcing you to buy a product from a private entity. Lastly, regulation MAY be a good thing or it may be a bad thing, such a blanket statement like you made is worthless.
@Comrade Kevin:
I see. So then, this trust fund is the same as other trust funds of which we may speak, in which there is a pool of cash that we could at any point go swimming in ala Scrooge McDuck?
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
This is the part where you realize that it’s easier to just yell idiot then it is to deal with what is being said, yes?
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
Skydiving could create a terrible ruinous burden on society one day. So could driving, drinking, drug using, smoking, etc, etc.
We better get the government to quickly decide for us what it is that is acceptable to do. So that things will run smoother.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
The federal government forces me to buy car insurance. So what?
I allowed my car insurance to lapse recently (an oversight) – after I realized it, I changed my insurance carrier to a different company, and also happened to have to register my car at about the same time. Not long after that happened, I got pulled over and the police officer wanted me to prove I had insurance, I was able to do so. The government tried to stop me from driving my car and was forcing me to pay insurance so that I could drive. So the fuck what that I had to be driving a vehicle to have that happen to me?
You are victimizing yourself for no damned reason. If you are a responsible citizen, you have to pay for the right to live here. If you don’t like that, go live in the mountains above Seattle or somewhere off the grid and take your chances. When you get sick and can’t afford to be treated because you got bitten by a tick and have lyme disease, don’t come bitching to me.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
The solution to not having the state government force you to buy car insurance is not to drive. Or you could take your chances and just drive without it. What is the solution to not being forced to buy health insurance? Since the IRS is the one who will be enforcing this through your taxes, it seems unlikely you would be able to just go without – unless you didn’t submit tax forms.
Do you see the difference now?
Once again, I would ask you to stop with the rest of the rhetoric and just focus on the argument.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Really? You obviously don’t know much about skydiving.
I use to skydive about 25 years ago. All skydivers have to sign a waiver. That means it’s a total burden to the person who is choosing to perform the activity. Does this mean that skydivers can no longer skydive because of HCR? Nope, not at all, it means that the skydiver will either have to have a policy that covers such (20 years ago there were such policies, I’m not sure how easy they are to get these days but skydivers also happen to be innovative people who band together and create companies that are friendly to that culture) or cover the expenses himself.
I guess that means that if you can’t afford the type of insurance that covers skydivers and you have a malfunction and get severely injured, you had better have the money in your bank account to pay for such treatment beforehand (last I heard, money is still legal tender and is acceptable as payment in lieu of insurance).
kay
@Makewi:
No, it isn’t, Makewi. It’s the federal government exempting those who do one or another thing from paying a “direct tax”, like a federal income tax.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything, any more than they “force” you to purchase a home to take advantage of a tax deduction. They decided purchasing a home was desirable behavior, so they reward it, through the tax code. Am I “forcing” you to purchase a retirement stock fund if I offer a tax break for doing that?
The tax exists, and it will be collected on income (and that’s a “direct tax” that is permitted by an amendment to the Constitution). To take advantage of the exemption, you’ll provide proof of health insurance.
That’s going to be the argument. That you bought the GOP framing without thinking it through doesn’t mean a judge will.
It’s easy to turn it around, and they will.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Well, funny you should say that, I live in a large city and I drive for a living. It would be awfully difficult for me to do my job without insurance.
It’s not rhetoric, you are victimizing yourself because you feel that you are being unnecessarily burdened. You want to cut the crap? How about you admit that an illness can bankrupt you and those around you and cause you financial ruin and you realize that having a policy available to all Americans to alleviate that problem is both an understandable policy AND morally responsible? If you can’t do that, you are just being obtuse!
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
Just watch and learn, butthead.
In case you haven’t been paying attention, your side of this debate lost. HCR is law, any challenges to it will fail, and there will be no repeal.
It’s not going away. We’re not going away. The crazy fucks in the Tea Party are not going to overturn the last election, despite your fervent hopes. Obama is president for seven more years.
Get used to it. The country has turned a corner and it’s not going back.
Makewi
@kay:
Really kay? Then how do I opt out? What mechanism is there for me to just not participate?
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
No, Makewi, I want you to put the Fox News lies down and come back to reality. Really, it’s not that bad out here. We who don’t live by the fear that Fox instills in it’s audience are still able to function in ways that make us believe 9/11 didn’t change everything. Come take a swim in our pool, the water is a little warm, but, it’s not scorching hot.
Little Dreamer
@AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat:
Seven more years, baby? He has to get re-elected for that to be true, but damn, I hope you’re right.
;)
Makewi
Sure you are. There is no such thing as a permanent majority.
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
Actually, even your FoxNews distortion is wrong.
You do have to do something besides draw a breath. You have to have an income. If you have a job and pay taxes, you will get a tax credit for buying the insurance, or else you will pay the additional tax. Just another tax thing to deal with when you do your TurboTax. Not a big deal, really.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Pay the fee, that way you can opt out.
Unfortunately, for you to do that, you’re paying for nothing when you could be paying for insurance that could save your life one day.
Do you have health insurance now, Makewi? It may be that you don’t have to do anything but maintain the policy that you have now (and hope that it doesn’t get too expensive for you to maintain – which is what is and has been happening to millions of Americans for the last fifteen years or so).
kay
@Makewi:
Well, you’ll have the same option to opt out of this exemption as anyone does who “opts out” of the mortgage interest deduction, or the enormous tax preference people who purchase (private) retirement funds receive in the tax code.
Just turn it around. If you don’t own a home, you’re paying “a tax” that I don’t pay. I don’t think it’s “fair” necessarily, but, well, buy a house if you want the tax break. Take the special deal and save for retirement with pretax income. Buy some health insurance. All favored behaviors under the tax code. “Fair”? Maybe not. But no one ever claimed the IRS was “forcing” anyone to purchase a home.
That’s how I suspect they argue it, and I think that’s a completely legit argument. The tax code has never been fair, but it “encourages” all sorts of private purchases.
Conservatives have been the prime movers in manipulating the tax code to reward behavior. I hope you’re not flip flopping.
AngusJackBootedThugOfMeat
@Makewi:
But there is such a thing as a permanent minority, mster.
And a minority that rests its fate on things like birther rhetoric, pictures of Obama with a Hitler moustache, calling for impossible repeal of laws, hoping for resistance factions to nullify laws, and generally acting like petulant goddam fools, with absolutely nothing of value to offer the middle class that generally opposes you and thereby attract votes, calling out to “partners” that have roots in the Michigan Militia movement and tax resistance schemes, is doomed to marginalize itself forever. It’s like the Nader cult, or the Perot voters.
Noisy, disruptive, always trying to get on tv, without a coherent message, without any real capacity to raise money and move candidacies, dominated by hotheads and government haters, and forever powerless when the chips are down.
Enjoy.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
“There is no such thing as a permanent majority.”
That isn’t what Karl Rove said in 2000.
The fact is that you and your fellow crazy Fox News watchers are becoming completely irrelevant, and even scary, and I don’t know if you remember this political party that used to exist called the Whigs? Just because Dems won’t hold a permanent majority doesn’t mean that the Republican party isn’t imploding and teabaggers are the ones who are doing it to themselves. So, another party will hopefully restore some sanity to what is designed as a two party system (perhaps the truly conservative repubs can finally smack you guys down and regain their control of the party which crazy non-conservative “conservatives” stole from them.
Regular folks see that you guys have become completely unhinged, and the reason is because you live in a completely different reality than the rest of us. Have fun trying to remain viable under those circumstances.
Makewi
@kay:
It is an interesting take on it that I had not considered. I will give it some thought. That is, if I am able to stop thinking all those racist thoughts that teabaggers are obsessed with.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
You are incapable of discussing without being insulting. More, you are incapable of simply addressing the statements of others without needing to make the utterer part of some larger group that has undesirable traits. You should stop that.
That is why you are hunting witches.
kay
@Makewi:
I haven’t read the AG’s complaints, but I know one of them is using the “direct tax” argument, so I guess the plan is to distinguish it from the federal income tax, which is the “direct tax” authorized by Constitutional amendment (not an excise or VAT) But I don’t think they can do that. If it walks like a duck, and all that.
We can call it a “penalty” or a “fine” but if it’s just a 95 dollar income tax that applies unless you grab the ‘exemption’, well, they can do that. They do it all the time.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Nobody said you were a racist that I’m aware of. There is good and bad in everything. I’m sure there are misguided good souls who think that the reality Fox News gives them daily is the true reality and they just don’t know better. Not all teabaggers are racist, I’m sure – but, there are enough indications that there are quite a few and it is damaging your party and the way you co-exist with the rest of us.
So, perhaps you’re not a racist Makewi (I have never called you a racist that I am aware of, and at the moment, I’m not going to believe you are until you prove otherwise). So, take kay’s post under consideration. We really do need a two party system with sane people that all live in the same reality. Sure, we can have disagreements, but the events that occur in your world view and mine do not mesh at all currently and eventually one of those realities will have to die out for society as a whole to live together and prosper.
Chuck Butcher
The penalty is a tax that gets deducted by having ins, done to keep it within the authority of Congress. I’d be a hell of a lot happier paying the ins money to Uncle Sammy than the legalized crooks, but…
Makewi, choose who you associate with better if you don’t like their fleas – or just get a bit smarter. Witch burning, oh po po pitiful you – nope you associate with fools and racists and general pigs. What you are other than a fool is open to question.
I’ll be damned if I can think of someone other than the GOP claiming permanent majority – but there sure the hell is such a thing as permanent minority – think Whigs.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Really, I’m trying to find the good in you, and you are accusing me of hunting witches.
You want to know what the people who really hunted witches did? They didn’t give the other person a chance to speak without being placed on a rack first. After the person confessed to being a witch (which they most likely weren’t) they were sentenced to burn and die (the sentence was already a forgone conclusion before they even took the person into custody).
Go fuck yourself!
General Egali Tarian Stuck
You doin’ alright here Scarlett? Do you need a fan, toddy?
Don’t let these mean ole libtards steal your mojo. Troll on.
Makewi
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Little Dreamer is being mean to me, but apart from that I’m doing just fine.
kay
@Makewi:
I just looked at the VA AG’s complaint and it’s a commerce clause argument. I’ll try to find the AG who went with “direct tax” because he (or she) is a little smarter (and certainly more creative) than Mr. Wingnut Virginia Lawman, IMO, who put zero thought into that thing. Tell him he can’t just parrot cable tv.
Mike in NC
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Maybe Makewank is upset that she didn’t get her federal income tax refund yet. You know, the one that means 95% of us are paying less taxes than we were under the GWB regime. Ours came today; nice little chunk of change that’ll go towards a vacation.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
I’m not being mean to you, I’m discussing the fact that we live in different realities, you and I, and that they can’t both exist and continue on like that – it’s simply not possible.
You keep victimizing yourself, that’s your thing.
Why don’t you STOP victimizing yourself?
Ask yourself, why is it that Little Dreamer isn’t victimizing herself? You might be surprised that people don’t need to fall into the victim mentality to feel heard. Just say what you mean, mean what you say and discuss REALITY (even if it’s not exactly the one I have been living in) and make real strides to find understanding.
But, if you’re just going to victimize yourself and complain in a crybaby tone that I’m being mean to you – well, then all I can say is you victimized yourself on this entire thread and you were already headed in that direction. Again, your problem, not mine.
Makewi
@kay:
The commerce clause argument is always a loser. It’s never worked in the past, so I have no reason to suspect it will here. Hell, the commerce clause has been the reason to do what they want to do since Alexander Hamilton in Washington’s administration.
@Mike in NC:
Maybe you should save that money for a rainy day. The economy hasn’t quite turned around yet, so it seems likely more rainy days are coming. Also, I make way too much money for that.
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
Sweetness, I’m not victimizing myself. I’m also not spouting off on tangents to everything you say. It would be the same if I pretended you were part of some greater communist conspiracy and then argued against that. But as it turns out, I’m more than capable of dealing with what you actually say and don’t need to pretend it means something larger. You can’t seem to make a comment without bringing up Fox News or some other boogey man that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.
For the record.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
Really? Just where do you get your perspective of reality from?
I bring up Fox News because they seem to be the source of the reality you are spouting, and it’s not REAL reality.
Perhaps you get your perspectives from a secondary source that gets it from Fox News. I don’t understand where you come up with the reality you have if the source doesn’t flow in that direction.
You do not think like someone who doesn’t get their information from that cesspool.
By the way, if you want to completely debunk that notion and show me I’m wrong, then quit hiding the shame of the Bush Administration under the rug and dodging questions – that would go a long way towards fixing the problem. People who get their news from the Fox News source are the ones who do that (and you’ve been doing it too).
kay
@Makewi:
I know the Senate did a legal review ( the research arm) and he quotes a bit of that re: commerce clause, but it’s a partial quote (….) and that’s a tad dicey.
I could be way off base (always! don’t forget! I’m often wrong!) but I think they can go around the commerce clause completely, re: the mandate, and if he’s going to argue that Congress can’t regulate insurance, under the commerce clause, well, there are obvious problems with that, because Republicans have argued for two years that states should not regulate insurance, which is what “selling insurance across state lines” means, as a practical matter. Unless they meant NO ONE can regulate insurance. No earthly being? Only God?
Makewi
@Little Dreamer:
My neighbors dog whispers it to my mailman who encodes it and delivers it to me on the back of my box of Frosted Flakes each morning. It’s an imperfect system, but you can never be too careful.
marrus
@Makewi: I’m not sure if someone else mentioned this. But as far as the mandate goes, it is quite toothless. You can choose not to buy insurance and still not even pay the tax/fine. The law is written to specifically state that not only are there no criminal sanctions, the IRS has no ability to collect it. They can’t even place a lien.
Myself, I wouldn’t make it that weak. But there you have it. Just trying to stick to the facts, as you suggest.
Reference: This from the Joint Committee on Taxation.
Here’s the key quote:
tenkindsofgrumpy
I can’t believe the last 100 pointless circular posts on this thread. But anyway,” feed me Mandrake feed me.
Little Dreamer
@Makewi:
And that’s why nobody here takes you seriously.