Last week, retired Bishop Giacomo Babini of the Italian town of Grosseto told the Catholic Pontifex website that the Catholic pedophile scandal is being orchestrated by the “eternal enemies of Catholicism, namely the freemasons and the Jews, whose mutual entanglements are not always easy to see through. … I think that it is primarily a Zionist attack, in view of its power and refinement. They do not want the church, they are its natural enemies. Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are God-killers.”
You might think that the 81 year-old Babini had already said more than enough for one day, but once some people “pop,” they just can’t stop. “The Holocaust was a disgrace for all of humanity,” the good bishop told the world, “but now we have to look at it without rhetoric and with open eyes. Don’t believe that Hitler was merely crazy. The truth is that the Nazis’ criminal fury was provoked by the Jews’ economic embezzlement, by which they choked the German economy.” He concluded that the Jews’ “guilt is graver than what Christ predicted would happen to them, saying ‘do not cry for me, but for your own children.’”
I realize that we may be dealing with a poor translation from Italian here, but Catholics believe in an omnipotent, immortal God — how is it possible for someone to be a “God-killer”?
And before you say, “cut the Church some slack, this guy is 81 years old”, remember that David Broder will be 81 in September.
Update. Do we know for sure that this guy isn’t a liberal plant?
Wow. I don’t know how you can translate from the Italian and change that into anything other than batshit crazy.
ETA: “The truth is that the Nazis’ criminal fury was provoked by the Jews’ economic embezzlement, by which they choked the German economy.”
If that isn’t the “She had it coming” defense, I don’t know what is. sheesh.
Don’t worry, I don’t cut Broder any slack, either.
Wow. A Super Big Gulp of stupid, in a shot glass.
wow all the crazy conspiracies all at once. It’s amazing to see the catholics are still in bidness
It would be bad enough to listen to a good old fashioned fundamentalist Catholic patriarch launch into the anti-Jewish themes that have bothered him about the over-attention paid to that little ‘Holocaust’ thing; that he’s prompted to do so in defense of decades and decades of child rape and the enabling and protection of child rapists by the Church he defends — I mean, well, jeesh, you don’t even hear that kind of stuff from the genocidalists’ apologists themselves.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
We’re talking about the Ratzingerites, who were against this pansy-ass Vatican II condemnation of anti-semitism anyway. But the freemasons? I haven’t heard them invoked in a major conspiracy in 20+ years! That’s the real blast from the past.
I, for one, am all behind this revival of Freemason conspiracy mongering. Maybe the Tea Partiers will pick it up and start claiming Obama is a Freemason, too.
This to silence from the Church hierarchy. If he’d said something really evil, like women should be able to become priests, he’d have been excommunicated by now.
Favorite joke, courtesy of Bill Hicks:
I believe the Jews killed God.
I worship the Jews.
Or saying that a 9 year old rape victim who has an abortion to save her life should receive communion.
Definitely for dire crimes like those, but it’s just not worth it to defrock him over something so minor as that. Besides, you never know what those tricksy freemason “Hollywood Liberals” are up to these days, donchaknow. Especially with that “Liberal Media” and that “One World Government”. Just saying.
/Insane Conservative Catholic
Oh god, I can actually feel the slime in my brain from trying to do that.
Giacomo Babini ess drek und shtarbn, shmuck.
In all fairness, did you see how those Jews were dressed?
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
Quick, someone get Obama to hold a trowel for the cameras. If he could don a cute little apron, we’d have this locked down.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
If there is catholic version of god, heaven and hell, I sure hope he is keeping St. Peter up to date as to which assholes get the express ride straight to the lowest pits of hell. This old fucker should be in the lead car. Absolutely disgusting.
The more the catholic church flaps their yap like this the better I feel for turning my back on it.
Deicide was a pretty explicit Catholic claim pre-Vatican II, as I understand it. The Jews were uniquely and collectively responsible for the death of Christ, which was, indeed, the murder of God. (Wikipedia even has an article on “Deicide.”)
At Vatican II, they decided to get rid of that business as part of their effort to move into the modern world. Obviously, if Babini is 81, then he was in his 30s when Vatican II came along, so he grew up with the old system. In addition, he was a kid during Mussolini’s rule, and was probably subject to a lot of secular anti-semitic propaganda in his school years, as well.
Troubling that an unreconstructed pre-Vatican II anti-semite was able to become a bishop, it must be said.
All of the masks are slipping, all at once. The Jew hating child rapists are revealing their true dark hearts and the revanchist bigots are stuck defending the indefensible. The only question left is whether Bill Donohue and Pat Buchanan will get their own show on Fox or MSNBC.
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Not of catholic background, but it does seem to this former fundamentalist that the catholic church is giving the GOP a run for the money in terms of implosive capability.
I think Giacomo should get together with Glenn Beck and do a bunch of concerts for the teatards. They can take the word pee-duh-ohh-phil and twist it around.
What I don’t understand about the whole “Christ killer” thing is this: Didn’t Christ have to die in order to redeem us from Adam and Eve eating an apple? I’m not saying it makes any sense, but according to their internal logic they should be thanking the
RomansJews for doing this.
To quote the illustrious FH #1, bloody hell. I leave town for four days and the shit really hits the fan with a vengeance. I also love the smell of anti-Semitism in the morning, always a zesty way to start the day!
I’ll tell you my big thing that no one has adequately explained to me: doesn’t the fact that Jesus and the Apostles were themselves Jewish have some bearing here? Doesn’t hating Jews mean that you also hate Jesus?
I know there has to be some explanation here, obviously. But I can’t see what it would be.
My growing list of Those Responsible for Pedophile Catholic Clergy, according to the Roman Catholic Church, its spokesmen, and men associated with the hierarcy:
– Jews (especially Zionist Jews)
– Progressive western societies where sex isn’t deemed evil outright
– Liberals and progressives in general
– International anti-Catholic conspiracies (in addition to the Jews and Freemasons)
– Liars looking to extort money from and embarrass the Church
– Petty gossip
– Satan himself
– The children, for supposedly seducing priests on purpose (aka The Lolita Defense)
I may have left some out — it’s hard to keep track.
Well, at least they made up with the Beatles.
Looks like someone’s been drinking too much of Christ’s blood and got himself a cranky.
Who’s got a cranky?
That was always my question. If Jesus was supposed to die, why are we mad at the people who did it? Are we jealous it wasn’t us?
Catholic Bishop = Republican Hack – (Baptist + Hair Products)
kommrade reproductive vigor
“…how is it possible for someone to be a “God-killer”?
Jesus Christ = God = Killed by the Jews.
Of course it was the Romans and Jesus, like his family and friends, was Jewish, but why let a few facts get in the way of a good hate?
And what Mark S. said. Also.
So, forgive me if I messed this up, but keeping score at home I’ve got the homosexual Zionists running the Roman Catholic Church.
Anti-Catholic nutpicking or a resurgence of official Catholic anti-semitism under the former Nazi Youth member Pope?
We report, you decide.
I have always presumed that it was because it was done with bad intent. I have also always presumed that many of the people we are discussing are idiots. I hope this helps.
Hm. So the rant of one old priest means a lot, eh?. And this:
Textbooks. Generations. Judge not, etc.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
What’s mind-boggling to me is that I left the church for unrelated reasons (not one of the faithful, I grew up) and this was all invisible to me. When it first started coming out I wasn’t with the church but I was like ‘naaah…’ but the more that came out the more undeniable it was. The evidence is overwhelming and a prosecutor would drool to have evidence like this to present in court.
Unfortunately for us, only if it was NAMBLA or the like. I guess once a religious organization forms a state that allows for child rape then that’s just fine with them.
God sure works in mysterious ways, eh?
I though that nothing that came out of the mouths of senior members of the Catholic Church could surprise me any more – I long ago came to terms with the fact that the Church I grew up in thinks that I am going to hell for what I do with my dick, and that the only way to save myself is never to have sex with anyone ever again – but Jesus Christ, what an arsehole.
Pathetic justifications from the Catholic Church in three… two… (I’m betting that as he’s “retired” he “does not speak for the Catholic Church”, but the official statement won’t actually contain any refutation of what he said).
If you play “Strawberry Fields Forever” backwards, it says “Raping children is fun.”
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
P2 was indeed 30 years ago, but that was a massive scandal in Italy. Although most of the members of P2 were of course Catholics, including the “Banker of God” and Silvio Berlusconi.
That is how it is spelled, but it is pronounced “Paul is dead.” Common mistake, actually.
@wilfred: Ah, yes, the classic “judge not lest ye be judged” defense. Because someone else does something evil means evil can’t be confronted in another person. Yawn.
@<a href="https://balloon-juice.com/2010/04/12/@DougJ: more-anti-semitic-than-andrew-sullivan-and-david-petraeus/comment-page-1/#comment-1689091″>Mark S.: Oh, I’m sorry. Does my archaic mish-mash of religion, politics, and superstition not make sense to you? Maybe it would help if I feed you a crisp waffer of bread that a man in a big hat turns into REAL HUMAN FLESH.
Jesus WAS a Jew, but stopped being one as soon as he set up his own church, despite living his entire life as an observant Jew and never actually suggesting that he was telling his followers to be anything but Jews. The Jews didn’t get on Jesus bandwagon, and so get what they deserve.
Judas “betrayed” Jesus, arguably doing exactly what Jesus needed him to do, but is the ultimate traitor condemned to the lowest circle of Hell, where he is one of three sinners deemed evil enough that they are doomed to be chewed for eternity in the mouths of the triple-headed Satan. The Jews got off lightly.
Uh, no. To me it means that evil should be confronted everwhere, only it isn’t. If only one face of evil is contested it’s hypocrisy.
I believe he may have been photoshopped into reality.
Actually “Strawberry Fields Forever” backwards sounds something like “reveroff sdleef you reb warts”
Hell, there’s even supposed to be some poor bastard who is condemned to wander the earth until the second coming just because he snarked at Jesus.
You can never underestimate just how vile entire societies can be in finding ways to blame the Jews for the latest plague, the latest financial crisis or the fact that rock music isn’t as good is it used to be. People suck.
Do you read this blog much? Because what you said is flat out wrong about the discussion that occurs on this board. Search through some I/P discussions from the past before bringing that weak tea.
So are you suggesting that any time anyone condemns or discusses one kind of evil act, they have to immediately front up and condemn every other bad thing that has ever happened in the history of the world or they are a hypocrite?
Gee, dinner parties with you must be a hoot.
So we’ve got pedophiles and Nazi sympathizers on the list. What next?
Are we going to find out that the Pope dines regularly on baby pandas? That the Church ran guns to Sierra Leone during its civil war? That the Pope was Jack the Ripper?
Actually I’ve been reading this blog for years. There are numerous posts like this, usually concerned with anti-semitism or anti-gay comments. I don’t recall any that apply this same formula to anti-Muslim or anti-Arab sentiment. That formula being, roughly, person X says something bad about Jews or gays or African Americans, followed by a hundred comments denouncing the racist, anti-Semitic homophobe.
Show me some.
People are the problem that won’t go away. Such as it was, such as it always will be. Of course it goads the anti-Semites to no end that Frank Herbert had the Jews making it all the way into the year 10,191. The simple fact is no culture figures out a way to survive that long without being able to adapt to the world around it. The fact that the catholic Church feels the need to drudge up the old blood libels only shows the weakness of their positions.
Come stai mi amici? I now know how you must have been feeling the day after getting back from Portugal.
Only if dessert is fantastic at his/her house. Otherwise I wouldn’t make it after the appetizer course. Oh and I’m not in the mood for this nonsense tonight.
@arguingwithsignposts: I fully expect a retort along the lines of “But she’s Iranian and half-British anyway!” or some other weak sauce like that. At least that seems to be the theme so far.
Do your homework.
ETA: That was from less than a month ago.
When will the Pope blame the Union Army?
Ann B. Nonymous
@wilfred: I’ll see you at the Cleveland protest. Right?
No, once would do. Again, I have never seen one post condemning anti-Arab or anti-Muslim sentiments, let alone a fair percentage in relation to posts that root out anti-Semitism. Maybe I missed one, fair enough, but not the many one would expect. In fact, that’s the only reason I bother to throw in racist equivalences like the one above.
Don’t forget that anti-Arab/Muslim sentiment fueled the war cries for Iraq and is behind the dismissive behavior whenever yet another war crime is exposed.
I’m well, but have had that after holiday feeling for months now. It doesn’t seem to be going away.
How was your break?
Fair enough, any others?
@Tattoosydney: The wedding was lovely (I’ll throw a pic on Flickr here in a few moments), the weather in Arizona was fantastic, Sky Harbor airport still sucks massive balls, I had a nasty rental car I hated the whole time, and my last day there I lazed in the sun like a gila monster dreading having to fly home. This of course is the extreme crib notes version of the trip, the whole adventure could take up a few dozen pages. Needless to say, I had fun.
@Tattoosydney: Hey, I dropped my thing into that open thread and had to leave, but now I’m back – and thank you so much!
When in doubt, blame it on the Muslims.
Probably others too, a lot of things come up when you google “anti-Arab” on Balloon-Juice, but I don’t have time to sort through which are from the comments and which are from the front page.
@wilfred: Y’know, “it’s terrible that aren’t you talking about the issues I think are important” is one of the oldest forms of trollery in political blogs. Even if it’s true (which is not worth the trouble of a search to check), it proves nothing other than events that came to the attention of the proprietors and that they felt they had something useful to say on the subject.
The traditional response if you don’t like the topics discussed here is Get Your Own Blog, and really, nothing more than that need be said.
@ellaesther: I wanted to tell you that I got to show the Armenian honey jar to the mother of the bride and she LOVED it! In fact she wanted one for herself, so I think I done did good there. Plus I decided to take it out of the box it was shipped in and drop it in a gift bag, but left the Israeli newspaper on. I just had to!
It’s Raining Men (and they’re Muslim!)
The Secret War in Laos Wasn’t a Secret to Laotians
The Mustache of Understanding
@GregB: Why not just blame the Knights Templar?
Note that these do not all directly address the idiotic statements and racism that you quoted in your original comment (with no link, I might add), but Tim F., JC, and DougJ have all spoken out pretty clearly about the I/P conflict, which is related to said racism.
(that’s using just three search terms, btw.)
Again, do your homework. The Catholic scandal is the scandal of the day. That doesn’t mean that similar idiotic remarks wouldn’t be highlighted if another flavor of funny hats were making similar remarks.
@Cliff: The Vatican caused the cancellation of Arrested Development? That fan in that Cubs game who caught the ball and dashed the Cubs’ hopes was a Papal plant? The Church is behind the awful new Thin Mints recipe?
I think it would be irresponsible not to speculate.
Dougie, you sound surprised. But that’s what Bill Donohue always does – when in a crisis, blame the Jews.
Fast forward to the 2:00 minute mark.
Things I did not know.
Al-Farooq Masjid, Atlanta
Shall I continue?
@arguingwithsignposts: You was released quick, although DougJ is joining up with you on showing how idiotic the statement was. I think it’s because Catholica is just the flavor du jour and there’s a myopia because we’re not talking anti-Muslim prejudice RIGHT NOW!! In other words, a much subtler form of trollery.
@Tattoosydney: I bet you get that comment often. ;)
Why are people giving any time to Wilfred? Charitably, he’s doing a Chewbacca defense of the Church (“look at that weird thing over there instead!”). Less kindly, he’s saying Jews deserve such hate.
@Tattoosydney: Please don’t. The piece of shit isn’t worth the time.
Why oh why is everyone not talking about what I want to talk about? Haters.
Agreed. March is like what? YEARS ago in Internet time! BTW, I haven’t seen any statements lately condemning Chinese racism against Uighurs. Hypocrites!
Honey, in that situation, I knows that they wants me to continue, solely through the language of lurve.
Proably true. But it were fun.
Nothing like a good troll pile-on.
@Tattoosydney: I’m a Scorpio, I can do hate like no one’s business trust me. This whole argument (if one could call it that) is so absurd on its face it’s almost not worth acknowledging. But I suppose we need to do something to get you through the work day.
I’ve never seen any of the front pager denounce the atrocities inflicted on the Albigensians – and they’ve had centuries to speak up. Where’s their moral authority now? Huh?
If by trollop you mean “hasn’t slept with anyone but the one perfect man for going on six years, but is allowed (nay, required) to look as much as he wants” then, yes.
@Warren Terra: Or the horrific anti-Muslim/Arab slaughter of Baghdad by the Mongols. The crickets over that atrocity cut through the silence like a sushi chef’s blade.
Man I could keep this up all night if I wanted.
@Tattoosydney: I never define terms for anyone any more. The last time I tried I never heard the end of it. Plus it’s not like I’m some sweet innocent thang anyway.
Won’t someone think of the Cathars?
You know, Jesus was a Jew, and the Romans nailed him to that cross. And two thousand years later, the Romans are still blaming the Jews for that.
Talk about projection.
Vatican: the ULTIMATE Republicans.
First, get your hands on the Æsahættr.
wilfred @ 12:33 am:
wilfred @ 12:35 am:
Jesus H. Christ, man, how do you do that without giving yourself whiplash? That’s less than three fucking minutes before contradicting yourself.
When Grand Moff Tarkin wiped out Alderaan where was Balloon-Juice?
Other than their wonderful food, and the wonderful Alfa Romeo, what the fuck good are Italians anyway?
@JGabriel: Nah, he’s just showing us he’s much too witless and doesn’t have the self-awareness of a clam to be a troll.
@ExtremismInTheDefenseOfLiberty: Dude, don’t go blaming the Italians for the catholic Church. As a people they pre-date Catholicism by a good thousand years. And if you really want the best of Italy, just look to California:
Admit it, that is one hot Italiana.
The Huguenots, the Huguenots!
Man, the catholic church is really on a roll. Whaddaya bet by Friday the pope bites the head off a puppy on live TV?
eh, she has a touch too much of the Ostrogoth for my taste…
Terms are periods of time. The common tern is a type of aquatic waterfowl. And the comintern was an international organization dedicating to spreading Communism.
(Apologies to Jeremy Hardy)
@ExtremismInTheDefenseOfLiberty: They gave us Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, good sh0es, Enrico Fermi, Sophia Loren, Federico Fellini, Antonioni, Monica Belluci, Monica Vitti …
Lots of good things come from Italy.
Because it’s always useful to bear in mind that no matter how selfish and idiotic Israel gets, they’re still better then wilfred.
It was the puppy’s fault – it had gone goth!
From the same person who applauds suicide bomb strikes on civilian targets as long as they’re Israeli casualties. *golf clap*
@JGabriel: Can I just say right now I highly appreciate that you didn’t mention Pavarotti? I hate to speak ill of the dead but something about that man’s voice just made my skin crawl, especially when I had to study him in college. I was always much more partial to Carreras. Oh and I’m adding Verdi to your list. Aida is still a masterpiece to this day, although I have a few other Italian composers I could throw in there as well.
We won’t know whether he’s anti-semetic or not until we hear his views on the settlements.
I have $10 on the Church being behind the scenes on anti-believer violence around the world. It wasn’t that long ago that they were killing the same people out in the open.
When I was a kid in the 1970s, we sang Beatles songs during Mass at my Catholic church. Usually “Let It Be,” but I think there may have been another one.
Of course, those were the bad old days when people were really enthusiastic about Vatican II and making the Church more modern and compassionate. Thank God JPII was there to turn that nonsense around.
“Dude!, Bishop Giacomo Babini own’s Malibu!
As a Jewish person, I feel that I’m not doing the job of running the economy and the world so I should probably give back my Jew card.
Being serious now, I don’t throw around the word antisemitic but these words are very antisemitic. That’s why when Foxman of the ADL uses the word antisemitic for stupid things like disagreeing with Israel, it makes it cheap and meaningless.
However, I’ve noticed that the Vatican has not denounced any of the things being said and that no one seems to care. I guess it’s only fair since no one seems to care about the boys who were molested either.
More to my taste: Andrea Minguzzi.
mmmmm italian wrestler.
@Tattoosydney: Hmmm…I may haz to think about going to London for the Olympics now. That is one quite tasty piece there I must say. I will confess to having a massive non-sexual crush on Giada though. Plus I’ve made some of her food and it’s quite good!
Okay, so one good painter, and a bunch of sex kittens. And you forgot Gina Lolobrigida.
Sorry, there are beautiful women in every country.
Italians, then known as Romans, once owned the world. They fucked it all up. I don’t think this was an accident.
More Gina Lolobrigida.
Look, the cars and the women are gorgeous. But these people can’t seem to get it together. What’s their problem.
I was watching Everyday Italian one time and Giada had some family members on. I was like, oh, how cute, she’s cooking with her sister and her mom.
Well, no. She was cooking with her mother and her grandmother. She’s inherited some damn good genes.
Just out of curiosity, how DID the Romans fuck up the world? If anything, they were most like the Borg in that they took over a culture then assimilated the most interesting factions of it.
@Mnemosyne: I’m enjoying her current show even more than her first Food Network show, mostly because the cooking seems much more laid-back and her adorable daughter shows up every now and again. I don’t think I would be above SamKitten possibly marrying that cute little one.
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
Oh man, that would be amazing. There’s got to be a way to nudge them that direction.
Yep, their empire only lasted 1500 years. What losers.
And what they couldn’t assimilate, they ruthlessly destroyed. The current issue of History Today has a great article on Rome’s conflict with Carthage. The subhead:
The Vatican caused the cancellation of Arrested Development?
@Bubblegum Tate: Already done. I’ll just quote the whole thing because this kind of nuttiness doesn’t deserve the links.
Giovanni Maria Vian is the editor of the Vatican newspaper. I don’t know where that puts him in the hierarchy, but if I were the PR guy for the Vatican, he would be at the bottom of the Tiber:
It was just an inopportune time to say that Hitler was justified in gassing the Jews because of what they did to the German economy. If there weren’t this pedo scandal going on, people would have been lapping this up. It’s like these guys were beamed in from the Twelfth Century and have no idea how the world works now.
Also according to this article, the bishop is claiming he never made these statements. The guy who interviewed him says he has it on tape.
ETA: I got a little confused by all these Italian clerics making anti-Semitic statements. Vian was talking about the guy who compared what the Church is going through to what the Jews have suffered over the ages.
Just out of curiosity, how DID the Romans fuck up the world? If anything, they were most like the Borg in that they took over a culture then assimilated the most interesting factions of it.
Oh, I don’t know:
2206 years actually, counting from the founding of Rome in 753 BC until the fall of Byzantium in 1453 AD.
Hey, Yuts! Everyone else on bj.
I’m alive. I’m having an awesome time. Went to meteor crater today. Stunning and humbling. Happy bday to me!
Yeah, so 1500 years wasn’t enough time for them to pretty much get all the details right and keep it together?
What, they were still learning?
No wait, I read you wrong. Before, when they had their heel on the world, that’s when they were winners
This whole history thing is so confusing. Especially when it is being snarked upon by folks from the world’s largest version of Alcatraz.
Don’t forget Benedict’s attempt to bring the Society of St. Pius X back into the fold. Though the media concentrated on one guy’s denial of the Holocaust ( a bishop at that), they ignored the fact the the Society had a long and well-documented history of anti-semitism up to the present day, including harbouring Nazi war criminals.
This was certainly known to the Vatican, and was part of Ratszinger’s personal area of responsibiltiy as head of the Inquisition-but what’s a little anti-semitism when it’s necessary to combat the dark forces of secularism.
@freelancer (itouch): O-TANJYOOBI O OMEDETO GOZAIMASU!! Welcome to 28, you’re two years from being officially an adult, so enjoy it while it lasts! Oh and you really shouldn’t text drunk, I’m just sayin’.
@Brachiator: Hell, for the standards of the age only wiping out a few of your enemies was downright humane. Next to the Mongols (I recognize they’re not contemporaries but I’m just going for pure comparison here) when it comes to sheer destruction the Romans were pure pikers. They did also recognize it was easier to subsume cultures rather than pure elimination. It worked for them for quite a while until the internal politics on Iberia itself began to destroy the empire itself.
You forgot Machiavelli.
Some people think his books are how-to manuals for despots, but think about it for a moment. He was explaining how the Church worked.
He tried to warn us, man.
True – I was just working on the “Empire” bit, not the bit that came before it…
Oh, was Extremism you? I forgot which of your personalities I was supposed to be not giving a shit about.
@Tattoosydney: Plus he tails on Byzantium, which is a bit of a cheat since they had been separate governments since just before the actual empire centered in Roma fell to the Vandals. It does technically count as Constantine did consider himself a Roman emperor, but Istanbul is quite a distance from the Iberian peninsula. One could conclude that you’re both correct but not totally accurate depending upon your perspective.
No one watched Jamie Oliver this last week? (Yeah, Mutha!)
and no one’s gonna want to hear me gush? I’m crestfallen, only not really. The weather is perfect here.
That’s okay, I keep track of stuff so you don’t have to.
I include the Byzantine empire because they certainly thought of themselves as Romans. Mind you, i’m not really qualified to comment as the unedumacated descendent of the criminal classes.
what do I know? As a gay man, it’s all about the semi naked gladiators and the orgies for me anyway. I just look for the dirty bits in Michael Psellus.
Slightly off geographically?
Iberia is where today’s Spain and Portugal are located. The center of the (west)-Roman Empire was the Apennine peninsula.
Ground control to Major Tom
Figures. I always thought all you Aussies looked like Dame Edna.
We do. Russell Crowe and Kate Blanchett are just very convincing special effects. Well maybe not so much Russ.
Not sure what that last thing was. Mine was “Reposted Due To Insane Mod Filter” which happens so often, I made it into an acronym.
Actually, I was just messing with you. I am without doubt THE world’s biggest Barry Humphries fan. All he has to do is walk onto the stage and I start laughing so hard I lose control of my bodily functions. I think Dame Edna is the greatest comedy act in the history of show business.
HNIWYAMADC = Have no idea what your acronym means and don’t care.
Do you also hear voices telling you to burn things? Although I do have time for pre-respectability Edna.
Yes, he does seem to have cleaned up his act for the American tv market or something. But he is still the greatest. I’ve seen his full monty two hour show in person, twice, and it’s a tour de force.
Are you familiar with the audience interaction stuff he does during his full show? It’s a school on comedy every time out.
No. Is that some sort of Australian penal colony tradition?
Actually – I just watched that clip and I have had hernias which are funnier… hmmm
I’ve never seen Barry live, so I will have to defer to you on that one…
See it if you get a chance. It’s an amazing two hours. The guy does a solid stand up, while carrying on conversations with people in the audience. He gets their names and personal details and stories, remembers all that stuff two hours later, weaving their stuff into his act and turning it into hilarity that leaves the audience gasping for breath. It’s the damndest thing you will ever see. Just amazing. And he does this for eight shows a week, including two on Sunday. At least he did a couple years ago. This is a 70 year old man over six feet tall and weighing a good 240 pounds, running (literally) around the stage in high heels all that time, and never missing a beat or a punchline.
Shit. I take the night off, and all three fake hubbies show up in one thread. I missed all the goddamn fun. Welcome home, FH#2. Hoppy birday, freelancer, you sweet young thang. What’s up to all my bitchez? And, Babini can suck it. I have no idea why the Vatican is its own state, and maybe that should be the next place we bomb? (Please note, that is snark).
@wilfred: “One old priest”? He was a bishop, not just “some old priest”. Missed that, did you?
@wilfred: You said you wanted ONE. Why isn’t ONE, enough?
The translation is accurate.
If God can be one and three, God can also be immortal and murdered. Mysteries of faith and all that.
I made a comment about the “Christ killer” thing a couple of weeks ago in another religion thread. I had just gone through Holy Week (in Episcopal ceremonies). Now maybe this is just the way the Protestants do it and I’m not remembering my Catholic upbringing, but a central part of Holy Week is pageantry, interactive readings of the whole story of the arrest and crucifixion. And central part of that is that the part of the angry mob, and often the priests, is played by the congregation.
The lesson I have always taken from that is that WE are the ones who killed Christ. We’re supposed to take it personally. To try to blame in on The Other, to say that we’re innocent and it’s all somebody else’s fault, turns that entire pageantry on its head. Even the inner circle, the 12 Disciples, don’t all come off completely clean in that story.
So I’ve always been puzzled by the “you killed Christ” thing.
Highly compressed stupid; if the container breaks, the blast could wipe out all intelligent thought for miles.
@Randy P: I suspect your Passion Play was a bit less traditional the ones they used to do back in the day, often followed by pogroms.
Freemasons and Jews? Naah…. it’s all RALPH NADER’s fault. Thanksralph!
@Randy P: The theme is definitely the same in the various Catholic Holy Week services. In the Passion readings, the part of the chorus is always taken by the congregation. Like you say, it emphasizes that we’re all guilty, which is the whole point of the crucifixion. To hear anyone — let alone a bishop — repeat this ignorant old meme is maddening. (In fact, the paperback missals found in the pews of Catholic churches feature a brief introductory paragraph at the beginning of the Passion readings. It states quite explicitly that although “the Jews” are mentioned by name in the Gospel as being complicit with the Romans in Jesus’ death, this doesn’t mean that blame can be ascribed to Jewish people, and to do so is to sinfully misinterpret these scriptural passages.)
These clowns want to party like it’s 1215.
@Mark S.: Father Cantalamessa’s observations had been innocent in intention
How do you innocently blame the Holocaust on the Jews?
Holy shit, now the claim is that this is all a conspiracy against the Church like Dan Brown’s Angels and Demons? The Catholic church may not be bright, but it sure as hell is creative. And by creative I mean f’in crazy.
I can not believe I am going to be the first to say this:
Catholic News – We report, you deicide!
I grew up as a Protestant in a Catholic neighborhood pre-VatII. The kind ones just reminded me regularly that I was going to Hell for all eternity. Several took some joy in conditioning me for life in Hell by pummeling me occasionally as I walked home from Sunday School. As a result I tend to keep my thoughts on the Holy Mother Church to myself.
On the plus side it did make me a very strong believer in the separation of church any everything!
Those freemasons and Jews! Clever to find the pedophiles willing to become priests, then molest kids, ( mostly covered up for forty years, but we are talking about the long game here) then finally get the molested kids ( now adults) to keep
asking for justice.
They also manipulated the church back in the day to cover up rather than come clean, and kick all those liberal plant priests out of the Church!
Not to mention running the orphanages in Ireland.
Well, to be fair, mass child rape isn’t the worst thing the Catholic Church has done.
I grew up post Vatican II. I was just barely conscious enough pre-VII to remember hearing the mass in Latin and kind of miss those cool sounding phrases (I always loved “Et cum spiritu tuo”) when they went to English.
Our neighborhood might have been about half and half Catholic and Protestant. I don’t remember any kids ever caring enough about religion to beat anybody up, but I do remember horrified whispers in the back of the religious ed classes about what The Protestants do. (Did you know that you actually HOLD THE HOST IN YOUR HAND in The Protestant service? Did you know that The Protestants make you do confession in public?)
I presume that last one referred to the fact that there is a generic “I am an imperfect person” prayer in many protestant services. But we were all convinced it meant you had to stand up in the middle of church and tell everybody the stuff you told the priest in confessional.
You just called this former Bishop an Anti-Semite. But I read the article several times and I can’t find anything about him condemning Israel for building settlements in the Occupied Territories; so I think you owe him a retraction.
Man I read this whole thread hoping to see Wilfred come back and ask for more examples. Damn.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
We commenters seem to be frequently called upon to help Doug with his Cliff Notes version of Christianity, but happy to help.
Most Christians believe that Jesus was both fully God and fully human. And the way to understand that is, don’t try. So, if you accept that the Crucifixion was at the behest of “the Jews” then the Jews killed God.
Modern ecumenical sensibilities have made this interpretation problematic, and there is enough ambiguity in the Gospels such that you could blame individual bad actors rather than a corporate entity, so that’s how you get around it if you want to be a Christian and have Jewish friends at the same time.
Still, the Gospel of John especially makes frequent reference to “the Jews” as the nemeses of Jesus, so you can take whatever you will from the Bible.
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
This applies to a lot more religious stuff than just the nature of Jebus.
Paul in KY
Let me note for the record that ‘Wilfred’ never posted again after numerous examples were given to show he was FOS. Doesn’t surprise me.
@Tattoosydney: Well that, and because not all listening will taste of death before the return of Christ. So either Christianity should be soooo over, or their’s some poor schnook wandering and wondering. Still. Also.