U.S. military officials tell NBC News that the U.S. Army will court martial a lieutenant colonel who refuses to deploy to Afghanistan because he considers orders from President Obama to be “illegal.”
Army doctor Lt. Col. Terry Lakin believes Obama does not meet the constitutional requirements to be president and commander-in-chief, because he believes (incorrectly) that Obama wasn’t born in the United States.
Lakin refused this week to report to Fort Campbell, KY for deployment to Afghanistan, but instead showed up at the Pentagon, where he was confronted by his brigade Commander Col. Gordon Roberts, a Vietnam Medal of Honor recipient.
Lakin was informed by Roberts that he would face court martial, and his Pentagon building pass and government laptop computer were seized.
They should have done this to the first jackass who tried to pull this kind of stunt. Maybe a decade of hard labor will nip this stupidity in the bud, although what will probably happen is the wingnuts will be mortified our Kenyan preznit is prosecuting American HEROES.
Also, when an officer gets court martialed, do they bust him down to LT or Private E-1? Or does it matter? I have no clue because some of us managed to go through our military service without so much as a bad write-up.
dollared
Our good doctor -colonel is going to find out that American courts-martial have a liberal bias.
Linda Featheringill
I know next-to-nothing about military law but I really think that no standing army can tolerate members who refuse assignments because they don’t like the President. I cannot imagine any military unit tolerating that. Anywhere. Ever.
So this guy will get his day in court – military court. I hope he is happy now.
Tokyokie
With a dishonorable discharge, you lose the right to any pension you may have accrued, so whether he’d be an officer or enlisted man wouldn’t much matter.
dollared
Our good doctor-colonel is going to find out that American courts-martial have a liberal bias.
Miriam
What is it about Military doctors? Isn’t this the second one to do this? I thought physicians where supposed to be smart.
soonergrunt
When an officer gets convicted at Court-Martial, s/he is sentenced to dismissal (officer’s version of dishonorable discharge) in addition to any confinement as appropriate.
For a good feel for this case, and what military lawyers think, check out caaflog.com/ a blog run by members of the military bar. The blog primarily concerns itself with the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces (hence CAAFlog) but they have quite a bit of coverage of LTC Lakin, to whom they refer as ‘guano-crazy.’
The Dangerman
Wingnut welfare circuit pays well; Palin has made 12M since she quit. This asshole won’t be in any bread lines.
Polish the Guillotines
Treason is the new patriotism.
Tokyokie
And keep in mind, at a court martial, all the officers sitting in judgment are of equal rank or higher.
Origuy
Watch him get convicted and ask for a pardon from the guy he says isn’t the President.
John Cole
@Miriam: One thing I noticed in the last two years is that there seem to be a lot of wingnut physicians.
soonergrunt
@Miriam: There’s some speculation that these people may be bucking for administrative discharge. Once they’ve had the military (read Taxpayers) pay for their education, try to get out before their current obligation is up, knowing that an admin discharge won’t affect their license to practice, which is a state issue.
Of course, if convicted at Court-Martial, that’s a felony conviction that can frequently result in loss or suspension of license.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
I doubt he will get hard time, though I’m like Oddball when it came to officers, preferring to just avoid them. Though once I accidentally neglected to salute a Colonel who just happened to be acting base commander and the sumbitch tried to court martial me for it. When I ran past him on the sidewalk, I could not see his rank as he was turned away, and I was in a big hurry to do something I now forget. Turned out he was a nut on a personal jihad to bad conduct discharge as many troops as he could/ He soon was replaced and nothing happened, not even an article 15. So I got through it all without any writeups, though I sure deserved plenty. It was 1973 and nobody gave a fuck except a few nuts like this Colonel apparently trying to make somebody pay for losing Vietnam. I am just glad the Russkies didn’t invade us then, as the Army was so broken, they could have had a cake walk, probly.
Blowriley
And there’s now a teabagger contingent in the military who claim that they don’t have to follow orders that they don’t deem to be “constitutional” (meaning any order that emanates from a Kenyan/Muslim/Nazi/Soviet/not white skinned President). I don’t recall getting that kind of a choice when I was humping boonies in Vietnam under President Nixon. Oh, wait…….
Anyway, I’d like to see some courts-martial and DD’s for that crew as well.
soonergrunt
@Polish the Guillotines: LTC Lakin’s immediate commander is COL Gordon Roberts, who is the last serving Medal of Honor winner.
It was COL Roberts who read LTC Lakin his Article 31(b) rights today and confiscated his government laptop and blackberry.
The hero is standing with the CinC.
HumboldtBlue
As a guy who received too many write-ups to count, as Sooner pointed out, he’ll be kicked out with the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge.
The loss of license is icing on the cake I did not know about, but it’s similar to the idiot in Florida who jumped in bed with Taitz and lost not only his job but his security clearance as well.
El Cid
When I was in the service, I don’t recall anyone asking what I thought of the Commander in Chief’s legitimacy.
Lev
Nah, they shouldn’t kick him out, just bust him down to Private and make him Permanent Latrine Orderly at Ft. Leavenworth, KS. That’s enough punishment for me.
Short Bus Bully
It’s not treason if it’s watering the Tree of Liberty with the blood of WOLVERINES!
HumboldtBlue
@soonergrunt: You are making my fucking week.
Omnes Omnibus
If sent to military prison, he will be known as the Officer-Inmate Lakin and will not be subject to manual labor requirements. It was jokingly mentioned at OCS as one benefit of a commission.
JoshA
Did this guy refuse any previous orders, or did he only become concerned about Obama’s birthplace once he was ordered to Afghanistan?
UncommonSense
I’m sure that the soon-to-be-former Lt. Col. Lakin will become a fixture on Fox “News” programs morning, noon and night.
In fact, he’ll probably have his own show by the end of the month. Working title: Great American Martyr.
Ken
I can’t imagine Lakin’s conversation going real well with a MoH recipiant.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@John Cole:
I have had the unfun of having seen a lot of doctors over the past 20 years and I concur. I think it is the profit culture in medicine that produces them, assholes that should have been bankers, or stockbrokers. And that profit culture begins with the AMA and permeates the system, and I believe discourages more liberal docs from becoming physicians by that culture.
Though there are quite a few tea bag type wingnut doctors, most of them are too involved with themselves to become involved in politics, and are goopers because goopers want to protect them from lawsuits and to keep the big profit money train in tact. But there also some good docs as well, but too few imho. It is why taking profit out of health care will attract doctors who want to be doctors for the right reasons, to help people, and not so much themselves with lavish perks and pay.
ellaesther
And can I get an A-men for this?
That’s all I’m asking for, people. He believes it — sure, you can report that he believes it. But you also need to report that he is WRONG.
UncommonSense
@HumboltBlue:
Ew! Eeeww!
The imagery… it BUUURRRNNNZZZZ!!!!!
Just Some Fuckhead
He was prolly sick of treating patients that had soc1alist health care anyway.
Polish the Guillotines
@soonergrunt: For the good of the military and the country, they need to drop the hammer hard and fast on these losers. I’m glad to see that’s what’s happening, and even more reassured it’s someone with COL Robert’s record swinging the mallet.
Mark my words, though — nothing in that MoH citation is going to stop the teabaggers and wingnuts from smearing the colonel.
soonergrunt
@HumboldtBlue: Thanks! I’m unemployed at the moment. Might as well play on my favorite blogs in between job searches.
I’m interviewing next week with a big company you’ve all heard of but for obvious reasons, I ain’t saying. I hope I get it.
Cerberus
@John Cole:
It’s because it’s seen as a money profession. My undergraduate years were insufferable with people trying to game the system to “get where the money was” and deciding the bio major was the gravy train to either the “big bucks” of being a physician. No pretense about wanting to help people, they all wanted to be specialists and other cushy jobs where they could make lots of money sitting on their ass doing nothing.
Many of them were horrible people and worse scientists. I’ll unfortunately have the dubious honor of teaching them in a number of years if my plans turn out like I hope they will and get the same weary oh vey look my professors had searching for the few in the class who actually cared about something other than “getting rich”.
And yes, this is 100% the fault of the private health care system.
Cerberus
Blah, speci.alist, right.
Moderation trigger and all that.
Cacti
Since Lt. Colonel is a Senior Officer rank, I think a stint in Leavenworth would be amply justified.
Comrade "Tank" Hueco
@Ken:
The very thought of getting the tongue lashing that this guy’s superior officer will give/gave/is still giving him makes me cringe.
soonergrunt
@JoshA: That’s the case. The funny thing is that he’s already deployed to Afghanistan, where he was decorated for his performance under fire.
The Grand Panjandrum
I can see Terry the Doctor and Joe the Plumber on the Wingnut Rubber Chicken Circuit now. What a sorry state Wingnuttia is in. But, it does pay well as others have noted with the Former Half Term Governor being able to cash in.
Elisabeth
Apparently, this -dude- idiot posted a youtube manifesto where he basically said, “bring it on” with regard to a court martial. I wonder if the guy thought this through, though.
Short Bus Bully
Didn’t the right go apeshit when some folks a few years ago refused to deploy because they thought the war was unconstitutional?
Hmmmm…
geg6
This makes my heart sing! So glad one of these traitorous mother fuckers is finally getting busted. And by a MoH winner, no less. He is a hero twice over and a true American treasure.
Just Some Fuckhead
Maybe Obama can intervene and make him a color guard at the White House.
soonergrunt
@Ken: Given that he was reading LTC Lakin his rights, it most likely would’ve been very formal and plain.
@Polish the Guillotines:
I’m sure you’re right. These guys have no sense of perspective, and I’m sure that the winger boards are lit up right now with speculation that the evil Obama ‘got to’ COL Roberts or that he’s gone soft since becoming a social (ist) worker.
Amanda in the South Bay
I saw a pic of him earlier wearing desert BDUs, so he must have deployed sometime before 2006 ish.
I can’t believe what a dumbass this guy is-he has a cushy D.C. area job, probably has good BAH, and if/when he gets his 20 years in, probably a good pension for being a LTC.
Calouste
IIRC the difference between this nut and the earlier nuts is that, while the earlier nuts made a lot of noise about not going, in the end they did report for deployment, and were subsequently deployed. They never did actually disobey an order, even though they said they would.
This nut of course showed brazenly up for his old job the day he should have reported for deployment, disobeying an explicit order, and hence court martial.
And I don’t see how actually refusing a deployment order rather than just talking about it is going to end up with anything than getting the full book thrown at you.
KRK
@ellaesther:
I noticed that too. It’s about time.
Bubblegum Tate
@Polish the Guillotines:
Well, he clearly hates Teh Troopz and, by extension, Murrica.
Comrade "Tank" Hueco
@Amanda in the South Bay:
And if he receives a dishonorable discharge, he is ineligible for just about all VA benefits. I don’t know this guy’s financial situation or disability picture, so maybe that won’t affect him much. It’s just such a totally stupid stunt, regardless of what the outcome is.
Garrigus Carraig
I mentioned this in passing in the TPM thread (where, embarrassingly, there were three calling for Lakin’s execution), but this room has current & former armed forces in it, so I repeat here: Does it make sense to postulate that maybe he was shook up by his first Stan deployment & simply does not want to go back? Or am I just a pantswetting civilian?
Comrade "Tank" Hueco
My last comment was deleted. Was it something I said?
geg6
I’m no expert on military regs, but didn’t the other two guys who tried this go through the proper channels to try to not deploy? Like retaining attorneys and filing legal protests and actually being ruled against and actually deploying? And this guy just said I’m not going, refused to go where he was ordered for deployment, and then showed up at his old job, right? How is this not extremely serious? How would he NOT serve time after this show of insubordination? I can’t see how any military anywhere can allow that without extremely severe consequences, especially since he is an officer. How does he end up on wingnut welfare without spending some hard time at Leavenworth first? Can you military people explain what I’m missing?
kommrade reproductive vigor
Too bad Taitz can’t defend him. “Let me feenesh! Let me feenesh!”
@Miriam: The other one had enough sense to back down and deployed. Taitz, who doesn’t have any sense, kept pushing that one and wound up with a $20,000 fine.
MikeJ
Don’t search for this guy’s name at freeperland. They think this guy is a hero and has ol’ Hussein backed into a corner now.
El Cid
By the way, not too many trees are nourished by blood, I don’t think. Dried fish, maybe. Compost. But I don’t think blood is recommended. I could be wrong.
Comrade "Tank" Hueco
@El Cid:
I think it’s with Jobes fertilizer spikes.
MikeJ
@Garrigus Carraig:
If a Lt. Col doesn’t want to deploy he can resign his commission and be done. this guy is disobeying an order.
Calouste
Btw, why does this coward only refuse the order to deploy to Afghanistan?
If he was so principled, why didn’t he just refuse the order to show up at the office in the morning? He’s had at least 300 opportunities for that since the inauguration. Maybe because having a cushy job in the Pentagon just didn’t give that little bit of extra motivation that an Afghani deployment gives?
Elisabeth
Can I just say as an aside that I find Dr. Biden wearing high-top Converse on her trip to Haiti funny and endearing. And, quite stylish.
Mike in NC
My own experience with military doctors and dentists is that many aren’t exactly the cream of their profession, and some simply can’t hack it on the “outside”. Plus they don’t have to worry about being sued for malpractice if they screw up a patient.
soonergrunt
One thing about this–LTC Lakin will almost certainly NOT be allowed to present his beliefs as to President Obama’s citizenship/authority as a defense at Court Martial for two reasons:
1–EVERY General Officer in his chain of command has ordered him to deploy, and they most certainly have authority to order him to do things. The specific charge would be
ART 90, Willful disobedience of or disrespect to a Commissioned Officer–You know that at some point recently he was directly ordered by his superior to report to Fort Campbell for pre-deployment preparation.
ART 92, Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation–his original deployment orders came from HQ, Dept. of the Army, an agency dully comprised and conformed to constitutional authority and possessing every right and power to order him to go to Afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter.
ART 133, Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentleman–the cumulative effect of his behavior has been to bring discredit and disrepute to the officer corps of the United States Army.
ART 88, Contempt Towards Officials–a commissioned officer can’t go on Youtube and slander the President of the United States. An officer’s commission is a charge from the President to undertake certain acts for the good of the country as an agent of the office of the President. Showing contempt towards the President is to show contempt to every commissioned officer and to one’s own office.
It doesn’t matter if he thinks the President is a one-eyed, one-horned flying purple people eater. What matters is that personnel subordinate to the purple people eater have ordered him to do something, and ordered him using various fora. He has willfully failed to comply with that order, and he also disrespected every single superior he has as well as the office that the purple people eater holds.
MikeJ
OT, but for those panicking about November:
It’s a long way away, and anything could happen to help either side, but don’t let anybody tell you the Dems are doomed. Voters might not be thrilled with the Dems right now, but if there’s anybody they hate more it’s Republicans.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
@John Cole:
A lot of people I know are surprised about this, because they have a general perception of people with graduate degrees as liberal types. But there is freakishly high proportion of physicians and dentists that are wingnuts. I think the right way to think about this is as an extension of the “technical field” wingnut rule: that advanced didactic training in a technical field (computer science, engineering, medicine especially surgery) attracts a lot of egotistical types that are predisposed to be conservatives/libertarians. What these fields all have in common is a large body of knowledge is seen as prestigious and can be dogmatic. More academic fields (medical research, any research science) are less appealing to the egotistical types because it requires a pretty humbling sense of how little one understands.
Comrade E.B. Misfit
Once the clown is convicted at a court-martial, that is a felony conviction and there goes his medical license, I suspect.
MikeJ
@soonergrunt: How about plain old 87?
Bad Horse's Filly
@soonergrunt: I see a PTSD defense coming on.
Amanda in the South Bay
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
On Wiki you can find an entry for the Salem Hypothesis, put forward by a guy who used to be involved in the creationist wars on the old talk.origins news group,which says that when a creationist brags about his/her scientific background, they actually turn out to be engineers (possibly doctors, math/CS/philosophy/linguistics-ish types, etc).
PhoenixRising
@Miriam:
Doctors are sometimes smart. They are trained to try to bully you into thinking that you’re dealing with one of the smart ones, but it’s a stereotype.
‘Guano-crazy’ should definitely be a new tag, Orly Taitz is sooo 2009.
soonergrunt
@Calouste:
A point that will almost certainly be brought up by the Trial Counsel. The legal theory is that all commissioned officers derive their authority from the President of the United States, who commissions them in the first place. If he obeyed one single order in that time, he had an affirmative responsibility to obey ALL orders. His theory only works if he can prove that NO commissioned officers have any legal authority right now, and haven’t since innauguration day.
Garrigus Carraig
@MikeJ: Ah!! ‘Hanx.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elisabeth #36:
Ooh, tough sentence! Congratulations for not falling into the spelling trough.
soonergrunt
@MikeJ: Yes. Of course, the most obvious one is the one I forget.
ART 87, Missing Movement:
“Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
And of course, good old ART 86, Absent Without Leave:
“Any member of the armed forces who, without authority—
(1) fails to go to his appointed place of duty at the time prescribed;
(2) goes from that place; or
(3) absents himself or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty at which he is required to be at the time prescribed; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
stuckinred
@Blowriley: Remember the CBS news program about the Cav unit that refused to walk down the road as ordered? Turned out they were about to put an arc light on it!
soonergrunt
@Bad Horse’s Filly:
Won’t work. There’s evidence up the wazoo that he is doing this intentionally for political purposes. When you put it on Youtube, that’s pretty much right out there in the open.
stuckinred
@Comrade E.B. Misfit: It depends on whether it is summary, special or general.
geg6
OT, but not completely, I guess. Rachel Maddow is going to have a special on Monday night that is an analysis of recordings of Tim McVeigh talking about what he did and why. She is good on this kind of in-depth, connecting the dots stuff (witness her tireless digging into C Street and the Family). It should be good. And for the youngsters around here, a good primer into what we’re seeing today.
gogol's wife
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
Lucky me, my doctor is an Obot.
Redshirt
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason: Thank you for this explanation. I work at one of the world’s leading innovative technology companies with tons of people with advanced degrees, in supposedly super liberal Boston MA, and yet: So many Wingnuts. I never knew until 2008 or so, because politics rarely came up. But with Obama, I got motivated, and so did lots of other people in the office – against Obama. I could not believe it, at first, and still have a hard time understanding how this could be. Your answer makes sense.
ericblair
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
As an overcredentialed enginerd, I’ve seen some of them and I don’t think it’s ego, since these guys were never top of the class material. You can get through technical professional programs two ways: you can be a scientist who specializes in applied subjects, or you can be a rote technician who doesn’t care about the science and cranks through the material. The wingnuts are in the latter category, and (in engineering, anyway) the people at the top of the class are in the former. I suppose the egotistical ones could be the ones who get through with B’s in engineering with the intent of getting an MBA after and make the rest of our lives living hells after that. But I digress.
Maybe medicine is different, since there’s more of a separation between the science and the application: understanding the science of the synapse doesn’t help you memorize the facial nerves and their pathways in any real sense. Probably surgery even more so.
Um Yeah
@soonergrunt:
Wow. Roberts became a social worker in between his original service and returning.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
@ericblair:
Yeah, but my point is that the “prestige” of supposedly knowing a body of knowledge makes the rote technicians overestimate their field of expertise. It’s a function of being part of a field where there often ARE smart people, but a less talented person can get through with rote memorization.
jrg
Who’s going to be the first wingnut to claim that Herr Doctor has the right to go Galt because Obama wasn’t in the military?
Litlebritdifrnt
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Some dickhead Lt. who had just arrived in theatre during Gulf War 1 tried to discipline my DH ( SSgt) cause a) he was dirty and had sand all over his uniform and boots, b) he wasn’t wearing his hat c) he was not wearing his rank insignia d) did not salute him. He crawled up one side of my DH and down the other, all the while not realizing that the Colonel (dirty, sandy, not wearing a hat or rank insignia) was standing right behind him (Lt.) DH stood there listening to the crap and said calmly “are you done Lt.?” the Lt. said “I am not done with you yet Staff Sergeant” “Oh I think you are Lieutenant” said a voice from behind him. “Staff Sergeant, you are excused” DH said you could hear the ass ripping from hundreds of yards away.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
@ericblair:
But all of this is sort of hard to separate from the “technician” mindset, where you study a field where there are lots of known quantities and a mechanistic understanding of how things work. Such a mindset is predisposed to “straightforward” explanations like creationism, “free market capitalism”, objectivism, etc.
Litlebritdifrnt
@JoshA: From what I have read he went to Afghanistan under Bush, however it should be noted that he did not turn down a promotion under Obama, guess the promotion papers were not signed by the “usurper” or he just liked the bigger paycheck or sumthing.
rootless-e
@Litlebritdifrnt: that’s a heartwarming story if I ever heard one.
ericblair
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
Possibly; I’m trying to think through it myself. Engineering has nowhere near the popular prestige of medicine, but it certainly will attract the libertarian I’m-smarter-than-you tech-will-solve-everything buttheads that read too much Heinlein. The irony is, engineering is very team-oriented and after a few years of experience you’ll start noticing that most of your real problems are political and organizational and not technical.
Tokyokie
@soonergrunt:
I’m not sure how long the commitment is if the Pentagon paid for your medical training, but I would think that the timeframe for rising all the way to lite colonel would be well outside of it. This isn’t some dumbass junior officer, after all. (Although I think he probably qualifies as a dumbass.)
Blowriley
I just went to the American Patriot Foundation website (which is supporting this puke) and left a comment, which I’m posting below because you probably won’t see it there:
“You’re a disgrace to the uniform and I look forward to seeing you court-martialed and discharged (dishonorably) from an army that you don’t deserve to be in. Hopefully your conviction will be followed by a long tour in Leavenworth and a revocation of your medical license. If Obama’s nativity was in any question then don’t you think that the last administration would have looked into it rather thoroughly, just to insure a republican victory in the last election? I didn’t like Nixon but I still deployed to Vietnam when ordered to back in 1970, if you don’t like Obama then resign your commission and dislike him from the civilian side. I don’t expect to see this in the comments (I suspect a lot of others have written similarly) but I just had to say my piece. I just wish that your citizenship could be stripped as well, you don’t deserve to live in this country.”
Chuck Butcher
Oh cripes, wingnut doctors…
Start out with the idea that a doctor is expected to behave as though they know what the hell is going on with a particular human being. Being an MD is somewhere beyond being a witch doctor and well short of codified science, an art with scientific backing – perhaps. Toss into that mixture the AMA treating MDs as though they had a ticket to print money. To be sure they can complain about malpractice ins (though as % income my contractors ins is worse) as they protect the small minority who contribute largest percentage. They foster the idea they know all about what they practice as an art and take that on to – damn near everything.
I know personally several MDs and I like them, but their attitude that they know something about stuff they pay no attention to beyond noise makers tires me.
ericblair
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
I’d say the free-market capitalism and objectivism would fit with the technician mindset, since they’re predisposed to think rationally about problems and figure hey, simple rules, act rationally, be smart, and you’ll get ahead. Plus, lack of actual economic theory helps: usually in engineering you’ll deal more with finance than economics unless you take econ as optional courses.
Creationism is different, I think. That’s not rational in any real sense, since all the actual scientific and technical reasoning goes out the window. These guys are just straight compartmentalizing the technical part of their lives, where science is taken to its logical conclusions, and the dogmatic part where the world is 6,000 years old because shut up.
soonergrunt
@stuckinred: It will be a General Court. The level of the crimes accused will almost certainly call for it.
Right now, the Article 32 investigation is starting. That’s what was officially started this morning by COL Roberts giving LTC Lakin his Article 31(b) rights today.
For the unitiated, an Article 32 investigation is the equivalent of a civilian Grand Jury investigation. The first General Officer commanding in the accused’s line of command, in her capacity as Court Martial Convening Authority, appoints an officer to serve as investigator. The investigating officer determines whether or not a crime occured, and the the identity of the likely culprit, and makes a recommendation to the CA.
The current Commanding General of WRAMC is Major General Carla G. Hawley-Bowland, MD
MG Bowland may, at her sole discretion, charge LTC Lakin as recommended or charge LTC Lakin with a lesser included offense to the charges recommended, or she may choose to not charge LTC Lakin at all. The Art. 32 process is notably different from the civilian grand jury in that the investigating officer is obliged to provide all of his findings to the accused’s counsel as he makes them. The accused can demand a hearing, and this is almost always done because it forces the government to show their hand completely before the Court Martial convenes.
kay
@gogol’s wife:
We have two Obot physicians, that I know of. Both of them are foreign-born. One of them is married to a real Lefty, so that’s what happened there. The other is a pediatrician, and I sometimes have to call him when I’m appointed as a guardian to one of his patients. He’s the most peaceful, kind person. He thinks Americans work too hard, and we’re mean to old people. Other than that, he’s a very optimistic individual.
soonergrunt
@Tokyokie: But if he’s taking a Proficiency bonus, and I’ve never heard of a medical officer who didn’t (I was a surgical tech in the army for 4 years) then he has an additional service commitment that accrues to that, in addition to extra money paid to the officer’s college/medical school loans.
Considering that doctors direct commission as Captain O-3, making LTC O-5 can happen while one is still obligated if one is a hot runner or takes on additional obligation, or both.
Polar Bear Squares
Support the troops.
Until … they do something stupid like this.
Not bumper sticker material.
But it works for me.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
On the other hand, the guy will subsist on wingnut welfare for the rest of his life. He’s probably already negotiating a book deal.
Itinerant Pedant
Hasn’t been said before (I believe) but with regard to rank, until he’s convicted LTC Whackjob remains a LTC. After a hypothetical conviction under UCMJ, if he’s sentenced to penal time (in Leavenworth, and as opposed to just tossing his ass out forthwith), he’s busted to E-1 for the duration of the sentence and then dishonorably discharged after serving the sentence.
After which, any employer other than Fox News or the Washington Post won’t have anything to do with a former felon.
soonergrunt
More information:
LTC Lakin has 18 years in, and was recently selected for promotion to COL, O-6.
Remember all, that retirment at 20 years for an active duty officer (doctor) would give him something like $50,000/year retirement pay.
JGabriel
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I’m wondering how this guy lasted in the Armed Forces as long as he did. I mean, if this is how he treats a black Commander-in-Chief, how must he treat his black patients?
.
stuckinred
@soonergrunt: roger that
Jim, Once
@soonergrunt:
See, this is where it’s proper to consider the money side of things. Twenty years = $50K, honorably earned. My husband taught 32 years and gets a $26K per annum pension – and feels damn lucky. Yeah, I think the good doctor just wants to go out and get what he considers to be real money. But it sounds like he’s not going to – unless it’s in the form of wingnut welfare. Dumb ass.
Martin
The first shot is about to fired in the war to enslave white people. There’s no fucking way the teabaggers interpret this any other way.
Jennifer
Re: wingnut doctors. I read Jon Krakauer’s Into Thin Air a couple of years back, and remember his characterization of Beck Weathers, the Dallas doctor who lost his fingers and nose in the Everest catastrophe back in the mid-90s. He talked about how Weathers, on the way to Everest base camp, was generally being an asshole conservative, quoting Rush Limbaugh to people and throwing his weight around, as such types are wont to do.
Since I’m obsessed with the whole Everest thing, I’ve watched about every show, read every book, etc etc about that event. So fast forward to a few months after I’ve read the book, and I’m watching this documentary about it, and there’s Beck Weathers, slamming on all the Randroids on the mountain who assumed he was dead and left him as such, rather than risking their own lives to save him. Never mind that his own philosophy towards helping his fellow man would have never had him out there trying to do the same for someone else.
Always, always, always the victims. Always.
Richard Bottoms
Busted to E-1. Prisoners don’t have rank.
JCT
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason:
Agreed, and many of the docs in the procedure-based specialties are starting to feel the reimbursement squeeze and thus are trying to aggressively defend their turf (e.g. income)- watching the interventional cardiologists mix it up with the interventional radiologists at my facility is a real treat.
Very true– one of the senior guys in my field is a way far right wingnut and the rest of us derive great joy from treating him like a lunatic. Doesn’t sit too well with his ego structure. After Obama was elected he must have received 50 emails asking him when he was moving to Wyoming to escape the upcoming apocalypse. His colleagues said he was flushed almost purple for an entire week.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I have never served but I am always glad to hear of some asshole in the military being upbraided for being an asshole to the men and women that serve under him. The damned job is hard enough to do without the bullshit a shitty officer can heap on them. Being good at your profession doesn’t work when someone thinks that being an asshole to subordinates is just a part of the job description.
@soonergrunt:
Excellent. :)
Hey Doc, no pain no gain.
What is really hilarious (for lack of a better word) about this is that we have come full circle. The extreme left was defending deserters back in the 70’s and now the extreme right is defending the same thing.
So how’s that all-volunteer military working out? ;) I think some on the right interpreted that to mean that ALL service was voluntary, whether or not you are serving.
Cassidy
@Tokyokie:
4 years of school + 3 yrs or more of residency= 7 + years owed. 1 for 1 basically. School time doesn’t count towards retirement until you hit 25 years. By the time this guy has hit LTC, he’s already done his required time and was probably able to retire at 20.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Jennifer: That was some fantastic book. I was living and working in various National Wildernesses when I read it, camped out at 12,000 feet high on the side of a 14 thou mountain. It was also very sad at so much loss of life, and Rob Hall speaking to his wife from a sat phone while he was dying near the peak was almost too much to read.
Cain
@Blowriley:
Soldiers who don’t follow orders are well not soldiers. Certainly not reliable ones. They should get booted off immediately. Fuck em. There were a lot of soldiers who didn’t want to go to Iraq but they did and honored their obligation.
cain
Cain
@Elisabeth:
He’s a fool.. he’s probably enjoying the attention among the teabaggers/wingnuts and not thinking that in the end it will be his life who is fucked up. The people admiring isn’t going to do shit in fact the philosophy is exactly that “you made your own bed.. sorry bud”.
cain
soonergrunt
@stuckinred: I have far more experience with the military justice system than a grunt like me should.
Those 40 days in PTC at Mannheim, I read whatever I could get my hands on.
EJ
What blows me away the most is the parenthetical “(incorrectly)”
WHAT?!? An objectively demonstrable fact, described as such, in MY news story? Was Orly Taitz unavailable for comment? Don’t they know you need to present “both sides” of every “controversy” lest you be accused of not being “balanced”?
EJ
@El Cid
Blood is mainly used to fertilize flowering plants and shrubs. Trees, not so much, as they rarely require high-nitrogen fertilizer.
asiangrrlMN
I am so glad we have many military people on this board. I learn something new every day. This idiot is, well, an idiot.
JGabriel
In the No One Could Have Predicted category:
It’s a money-maker for the birthers and the teahad.
.
soonergrunt
@asiangrrlMN: And what’s the real tragedy here is that he apparently had a great career up to this point. He had been selected for promotion to full Colonel, and they don’t just give that out to anybody. Something like 75% of the leiutenant colonels in the Army will retire at that rank. Alternatively, he could’ve just retired in two years with 50% pay and full benefits, at the young age of 45.
Now, when this is all said and done, he’ll be lucky to keep his pension and his medical license.
rikyrah
put his ass in jail.
period.
see ya.
Wile E. Quixote
@soonergrunt:
No kidding, what a fucktard. And not only does he face loss of pension and his medical license but if the Army really wants to they can send him to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, which for those of you who don’t know is kind of like a Federal Pound Me In the Ass Penititentiary, but run by the Army.
Wile E. Quixote
I phrased that poorly. I know that Soonergrunt knows that. I was just excited about being able to write “Federal Pound Me In the Ass Penitentiary.” What can I say? Hopefully I won’t get put in moderation, because that’s just like a Federal Pound Me In the Ass penitentiary that’s run by Cole.*
*I used this as an excuse to write “Federal Pound Me in the Ass Penitentiary” again and also to show off the mad skillz I learned in “Glibertarian Anal-ogies 101” at McMegan McArdle U. Am I ready for my close-up yet Mr. Breitbart?
Norman Rogers
It’s actually called “good order and discipline” and this officer displays none of that.
He won’t see the inside of a prison for very long, however. Were he an enlisted man, yes. As an officer, no. He needs to be caught killing someone in broad daylight by fifty other officers before he faces that sort of punishment, and even then they would find a way to be lenient. There are two forms of justice in the military: there’s the one that keeps the rabble terrified and in line by confiscating their pay and their freedom and then there are the rules by which officers slap each other on the wrist.
By the way, why do liberals make light of anal rape in prison? I believe it was George W. Bush who signed into law some very good legislation criminalizing this horrible act (the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003). Why is it something to joke about? Is there some latent desire to express a little homophobia?
You would think than an enlightened society would get past these things.
mslarry
@soonergrunt:
so wait… selected for a promotion to Colonel? Did that happen since Obama became CinC? If so, am I to understand it was okay to accept said promotion from the “not really President b/c he’s a Kenyan Islamofascist”, but it’s not okay to go to war for said “Kenyan Islamofascist? ” What an ASS.
soonergrunt
@mslarry: The selection would’ve been in the last year, so there is a very high likeliehood that it was under President Obama. Fun fact–All officers in the military selected by the President for promotion to O-6 (Colonel in the AF, Army, Marine Corps, Captain in the Navy and Coast Guard) and above must be approved by the Senate to advance to their new rank, or retire at their current rank.
Any one officer or all of the officers on the list can be held from promotion by any Senator putting a hold on it. The most notorious example of this was Senator Inhofe (R-Crazy) who put a hold on all Air Force promotions for over a year back in the 90s because he wanted to force President Clinton to close an Air Force Base in California and move the depot work from there to Tinker AFB here in OKC.
mds
@John Cole:
Warning: broad stereotyping follows, due to my current grumpiness.
Based upon my involvement in attempts to teach biochemistry to medical students, many tend not to be particularly intelligent, they’re stuffed to the gills with a sense of self-entitlement, and they get shoved out the door at the end of four years with the rare smart exceptions shaking their heads over how little they were actually taught. It’s hoped that they’ll eventually send big checks to the alumni fund in exchange for the favor, which seems to have become the primary function of my alma mater‘s medical school. So: not nearly as smart as they think they are, with an enormous sense of self-entitlement about how much the world owes them a living. Yeah, fits the pattern pretty well.
Or, you know, what Cerberus @31 and about sixty other people since have said.
@Polish the Guillotines:
Oh, come on. Not even wingnuts would directly attack the service of a decorated combat veteran.
soonergrunt
@mds:
Cough, John Cough, Kerry Cough…
I should have that looked at. It’s not healthy.
SaneVet
Apparently this Court Martial is big doings. Seems pretty standard to me. Failure to Report, Missing a Movement (permission to laugh granted, civilians), Failure to Obey a Direct Order, and probably lots more.
This guy would be facing a firing squad in 1944. In 2010 I’ll take making big rocks into little rocks at Leavenworth. I’m glad he never made it to his OEF assignment, as I care about my friends there.
Mithras
This entirely reliable source says:
soonergrunt
@Mithras: I’m sure that’s correct.
I knew that officers do not get dishonorable discharges. They get dismissed.
It makes sense that the service secretary would drop from rolls any officer in prison. After all, s/he’s not leading troops there.
mds
@soonergrunt:
Really? I never heard about that, or the slandering of Max Cleland, or repeated suggestions that John Murtha hated the troops. What’s next, denigrating Wesley Clark? Hounding Hugh Thompson? I’m just having a hard time squaring this unsourced allegation about Senator Kerry with right-wingers’ love for those who have defended us in battle.